Well this year i wont be co hosting the PMBO,as I'm just to busy at work this time of year. But i will be putting an entry O0
So come on guy's-who's got the talent to put one together?.Poynt99,MattWatts,Tommy Reed,Slider-->anyone?
Here is the first video on my build-the Megga-G. Sorry guy's,but one of the smart drives had to be sacrificed lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT7DrGEWyWc
Quote from: TinMan on 2014.11.15, 07:22:37
So come on guy's-who's got the talent to put one together?.Poynt99,MattWatts,Tommy Reed,Slider-->anyone?
Hehe!
If I have to put in an entry just to get Tom to do the same, it will be worth it. I don't know how many times I heard Tom explain how stupid this is.
Stupid is as stupid does.
So come on Tom, make me look like a dork. I don't care. It will be fun.
AND... Since Russ will be a judge, we won't have to compete against him with his 500,000 RPM spinning magnetic spheres and precision Rodin coils.
Yea-come on Tom-->what ya got :D
Here is the video by Russ. All links in the description.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uyDQx3v1D4
Hi TinMan,
OK, I'm in.....
Better get the the tin man hat on, because I'm not new in building pulse motors >:-)
I already have a design that will blow most of your minds and also be very efficient, I will take my time just to be fair even if I can build it in a day O0
Tom
Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014.11.15, 12:21:36
Hi TinMan,
OK, I'm in.....
Better get the the tin man hat on, because I'm not new in building pulse motors >:-)
I already have a design that will blow most of your minds and also be very efficient, I will take my time just to be fair even if I can build it in a day O0
Tom
OOOOOOH -It's on :P
Built a couple my self O0. lets see how yours will stack up against the Megga-G.
Brad
I love it when a plan comes together. ;)
@All
I'm not sure which way to go, on one hand I could use the magnetic bearing test bed shown and that one inch steel shaft takes a few hours or more to spin down from 1000 RPM to a complete stop. It's rock solid on all axis and as far as efficiency is concerned it's almost impossible to beat.
On the other hand we have the goliath, a switched reluctance wound armature motor/generator able to handle 300+ amp pulses with integrated energy recovery. It has yet to meet my expectations however I haven't worked on it in quite a while, maybe it is time.
It might be good thing to do a little show and tell between the members here. I'm not sure I would ever enter a competition but getting a little input is always a good thing.
AC
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2014.11.15, 16:31:43
It might be good thing to do a little show and tell between the members here. I'm not sure I would ever enter a competition but getting a little input is always a good thing.
Save it for your entry AC. You have three minutes, to impress the world. Piece of cake.
Quote from: Matt Watts on 2014.11.15, 19:22:55
Save it for your entry AC. You have three minutes, to impress the world. Piece of cake.
That'll never happen C.C
@tinman
QuoteThat'll never happen
I believe you must have been reading my mind, lol.
You know I thought on it a while and spending a great deal of time and effort simply to impress other people I don't even know seems kind of absurd to me. I have been down that road before when I was younger and in the end I didn't feel I had really accomplished all that much and my time could have been spent more productively. To each his own I guess.
AC
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2014.11.16, 19:06:40
You know I thought on it a while and spending a great deal of time and effort simply to impress other people I don't even know seems kind of absurd to me.
Okay, what I said was an awful way to phrase it.
You don't have to impress anyone. You have earned your stripes.
Just do it to be part of something you are interested in. It will give us all an opportunity to rub shoulders and have a few inside jokes to pull out when the time is right.
Watching the ball game is one thing, playing in it is another. And like most things, you get out of it what you put into it.
Come on AC, be a pal. Lets go fling some electrons around.
Well I think the pulse motor build off is a great idea.
I envision a pulse motor that self starts quickly with full power and runs at a constant rpm with no load at minimum input, and tuned with a CW on the mosfet drains, with PWM and microprocessor control to adjust supply voltage- timing-on time ect., based on load. No flyback output (flyback utilized to minimize input or increase input voltage). I estimate a prototype cost of several hundred dollars AU. Not counting design time costing, just parts and assembly. Is it worth it for the build off ? Maybe not, but it is one of the several devices I am determined to get to "solid working prototype stage". Unfortunately none of my designs will "make any OU energy" but they all can utilize very cheap environmental (gathered) energy, just like this computer is. With a household of three people and three air conditioners three fridges electric water pumps and lights on 24/7 we got a bill for $45.00, using the grid for a massive battery is fairly cheap. It would be difficult for us to use more power, but easy to use less.
Maybe next year, my two phases from one motor using the "resonant charging circuit" coil to double as a lagging phase assisting drive solenoid idea could be involved.
I'll need to work it all out on paper for a fixed rpm/frequency and find out if the idea I have is viable.
The vision is flick a switch and the motor will start under at least some load and run up to running speed quickly, then the electronics and circuitry will do whatever it can to maintain that speed (within limits) under varying loading as efficiently as possible with all loads. Possibly by using resonance the motor could be tuned to develop more power and allow more input power if the speed was to slow towards resonance frequency as the load is increased past design limit.
With any luck the build off will be bigger and better next year, I do plan to build a precision motor to incorporate some of my idea's.
Happy building to the entrants. Safety first tho. Potentially dangerous design flaws should receive demerit points maybe.
..
farmhand
quote
Potentially dangerous design flaws should receive demerit points maybe.
------------------------
Naaahhh
wheres the fun in that :o
all kidding aside yes safety 3rd, right behind rules 1 and 2 [both safety first :D]
It is good to see you around Farmhand.
@AC
It is good to hear that a consideration passed thru your head... :)
here some of us try to work together and others try to help any way they can
Sometimes that's all it takes ...just the desire and a little effort.
I must add
I recently read an exchange here between some fellows that had some words about a wood stove project
I personally am glad that they took the time to set a great example [for the younger readers] ,I think that this build off is a similar opportunity except not just for the younger readers.......
respectfully
Chet
@Chet
QuoteIt is good to hear that a consideration passed thru your head...
here some of us try to work together and others try to help any way they can
Sometimes that's all it takes ...just the desire and a little effort.
I think the onset of winter here, -23 C , may be making me cranky because everything I seem to say lately just seems so negative. I need to find my happy place and do something constructive because what I'm doing just ain't working. Maybe hitting the bench is just what I need to get back on track.
AC
AC
Quote
Maybe hitting the bench is just what I need to get back on track.
Its better than hitting your head against the wall :D
Thx
Chet
I love a good PMBO :) http://youtu.be/7W34W5Gxjeg are former winners allowed to enter?
Hi All,
Ok, this is my pulse motor build off design. This is just the start of the Pulse Radial Engine/Generator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA4RelrMHwc
Tom :P
Hi All,
Ok, waiting for some parts for this pulse motor build off.
Not only is this fun, but I want to win (winner) so this design is very special in every way.
Tom :P
Sooo
the velvet glove comes off the iron fist.....
Wild concept !!
Tom are you getting any of that Crazy snow fall up your way?? [some places seeing 8 ft in the last few days]
thx
Chet
Hi All,
My theory of the radial pulse piston engine:
Like all piston engines we know of TDC,BDC and power stroke.
This design of my pulse engine use all three of these basic workings in a piston engine, instead of using fuel I plan to pulse the center stroke of the piston to create a push/pull effect with a piston that has a magnet in the center.
As the piston moves downward to BDC a pickup coil generates output due to the permanent magnet that is part of the piston, the created a moving magnetic field that will create power output.
Due to counter emf, the load on the piston will be fall less because of the leverage of the crank shaft. This will also have the same effect on TDC also.
Each time the drive coil is turn on due to a PWM/mosfet drive circuit a BEMF will happen as the power it turn off. This can be collected for extra power added to the generated coils from TDC/BDC power stokes.
This is the basic design using just one piston:
Tom :o
Very nice Tom, a great design which opens many possibilities as well O0
regards
Mike 8)
Thank you Centraflow,
I agree that there are all kinds of arrangements of pulsing and generating power.
Each field will be 30gauge magnet wire with a resistance of 20ohm's or 200ft long. This will give my a max load of 5v/20ohm =250ma for each pulse coil.
My magnets are 1"od x 5/16"id x 1/4"thick NdFeB Neodymium rare earth ring Magnet and Grade N40 NeFeB.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281112847055?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
For 8 magnets they are about $25.
Magnet Wire 30 Gauge AWG Enameled Copper 2750 Feet Coil Winding 200C at:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181586625842?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
This is the weed wacker crank shaft I'm using 14mm but will add more distance of stroke due to radial design.
Tom
Hi All,
Ok, just about finished on this pulse motor build off...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyokf2F63kI
Tom
Looking good O0
regards
Mike 8)
Hi All,
Ok finished on the pistons and piston rods, waiting for the magnets to finish up.
Next would be the electronics and coils to run the radial engine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X3tVMVCvxQ
Tom.
Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014.11.23, 23:31:50
Ok finished on the pistons and piston rods, waiting for the magnets to finish up.
Next would be the electronics and coils to run the radial engine.
Pretty cool Tom. You're going to have a blast playing with the controller logic, the possibilities are endless. I think what I would do is build a crude servo sensor so the controller always knows the crankshaft angle, then you can play with the pulse angle and duration values to make this motor run any way you want, change directions, speed, the works. Very neat.
I'd like to see it run in a mode that mimics a Harley Davidson, with a nice lope, k-chug, k-chug, k-chug. hehe. O0
Thanks Matt,
I plan to do a incoder, are you reading my mind?
I'm also adding a generator field at TDC, this turn this motor into a generator also.
I will have two microcontrollers running this baby, Atmega 328 chips. One for the motor controls and the other for LCD read out for RPM and so on.
Tom >:-)
Hi All,
Got my magnets in today, moving very fast to get this running soon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyhFmVvvNUg
Tom
Tommey
I can here the TinMans Knees rattling from here!!! :D
all kidding aside
I love it!!
thx for sharing your hard work.
Chet
@TR
Very nice build. There are not really any variables regarding the physical build since movement is movement and magnets are magnets, so this part of the build requires good worksmanship which you have displayed as being top notch. But the next part is where I feel you can go soooooooo wrong and because of this, I would really recommend you take a few steps back and do some major homework for a few days first.
Basically, what I would recommend you do is provide guys here with the build data like stroke length, magnet type and dimensions and chamber inner and outer diameters. Also, I would suggest you try and identify the actual RPM that the structure could support and that you will anticipate using. With that information, maybe some guys here can make a quick mock up of just one chamber and magnet and stroke length with a drill and then help you find the BEST COIL scheme. It does not have to be exactly to your spec as long as it is about the same ratios.
Since the output coil aspect of your build is the most important part, a builder could spend years just on that research alone.
At least do some single chamber tests before you go all out and wind all your coils.
But from your last video, do I understand correctly that you plan to use drive coils at the foot of each chamber and pickup coils over the stroke length of the magnet. WHY would you do that? Why would you use drive coils that will produce two polarities one that will be wasted and the other that better be timed so right and positioned so perfectly when you already have a central shaft.
But if your plan is to use pulsed drive coils at the base of the chambers and have enough torque developed on the center shaft to turn a generator or anything like that, I would say forget it man.
If I was you, and if the build requires a pulsed drive, then I would simply put a small pulsed drive motor on the shaft (where you can recover any flyback and work on the 8 pick up coils to produce maximum output.
Or, maybe I have misunderstood your plans. Sorry for questioning but you know, @members are not only here to chuckle up and just give you encouragement and say, hey, good work. I think it is our responsibility to point out potential checkmates which I have not read anywhere, but they still do exist and will always show themselves when its time to start her up, but usually by then, it's too late and guys just wind up putting there builds on their shelf and work on something else. A little bit of R&D on the coiling could go a long way.
Good work though.
wattsup
Quote from: wattsup on 2014.11.26, 00:02:35
Or, maybe I have misunderstood your plans.
Tom is one of those kind of guys where you just have to sit back and watch him work. He has a sense of "feel" like no one I have ever seen. Somehow his stuff just lands at or very near optimum. It must be a rare kind of mechanical intuitiveness. I wish I had it.
Don't be surprised if he puts this all together and has something that exceeds 95% efficiency.
Something else to take note is the deafening silence from TinMan.
This is going to be a PMBO to remember. :o
The TinMan is working 90 hour weeks these days....
Quote from: Matt Watts on 2014.11.26, 00:18:40
Something else to take note is the deafening silence from TinMan.
This is going to be a PMBO to remember. :o
;D
Hi All,
I added a few more part to this build today, just about ready for me to make the coils next.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDyYrCgkqv8
Tom
Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014.11.27, 01:25:28
Hi All,
I added a few more part to this build today, just about ready for me to make the coils next.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDyYrCgkqv8
Tom
Looking good Tom ;)
@TR
So from what I gather with your latest video, that flywheel is there as an inertia storage assist and will not be used with an outer belt and drive motor. Hmmmmmmm.
So you want on put drive coils at the base of each 8 chambers to push up the end magnet, but you will run into checkmate since the position of the drive coils need to be the same as any type of pickup coil since your magnet is at the end of each wooden cylinder. I think you better draw this out before your final stages.
Anyways, should you change your mind in the build, I have taken a few minutes to draw an idea on how you can make pick up coils to draw energy off those push/pull magnets.
Really, you may need to make at least three different pick up coil types, then test them, then make your final 8.
If you only wind one multi-turn multi-layer coil, the neutral of the magnet passage will effect 100% of your coil output at each pass.
By using pancaked type, multi stacks, the neutral can only be in one or two stacks and not in the complete output coil. The magnet passes and is progressively changing inside each individual stack so the neutral effects becomes confined to only a percentage of the pick up coil and not in all of it when using one huge coil.
Also, million turn coils will give you higher voltage, big deal, you will still have to step it down to use it. With pancaked, the lines are radial outward and the paralleling will increase amperage output at a lower more workable voltage.
That's the theory anyway.
So, again, drive coil at the base of those magnet chambers will require so much juice and the timing will have to be electronically controlled per 8 drive coils, it just seems way overkill when your real timing is already hard built into the actual rotation. Since you added that flywheel, what I recommend is doing a mix with Bedini style using the flywheel, embed some magnets into the outer edge of that wheel and run it with a simple pulsed coil and reed. The flywheel circumference will give you good leverage in turning the the 8 chamber magnets.
Then all you need to do is pull out from the 8 pick up coils enough to drive the one drive coil and your on your way.
All the best.
wattsup
PS: Notice in the drawing I have a second option where you can have two magnets in each of the 8 chambers, one closer to the base in case you want to keep your method, a second magnet per chamber will allow you drive coils to drive that the magnets closer to the base of each chamber, then use the outer magnet to impress into your secondaries.
Hi Wattsup,
Not really, I found out while building I would only need one coil for each piston. This is because of the 8 piston at every 45 deg, a 180 deg would produce the generator side while the 0 deg push the pistons downward. The flywheel will do the rest.
Tom
O0
Tommey
yes
O0
sorry I removed the "SpanksGiving"for pulse motor build off comment.
[must have removed it just before your post]
Hope you had a good Thanksgiving.
thx
Chet
Hi All,
Sorry, but I got some nasty comments and thought it would be best to just remove my account.
I have better things to do then put up with jerks!
I really didn't expect them, so I will only put up my finished PMBO before Dec. 14th...
Tom
Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014.11.28, 13:11:26
Hi All,
Sorry, but I got some nasty comments and thought it would be best to just remove my account.
I have better things to do then put up with jerks!
I really didn't expect them, so I will only put up my finished PMBO before Dec. 14th...
Tom
Tom
I only put videos on youtube which people with "links" can see, also a good idea to remove the posting comment option ;) I presume the comments were on youtube?
your work is very good, so ignore the jerks
regards
Mike 8)
Hi All,
Ok started another YouTube account..
This is my pulse motor update.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5GmeBtK6vM
Tom
Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014.11.29, 01:35:54
This is my pulse motor update.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5GmeBtK6vM
When you get this all put together, don't be so humble. If it happens to charge the battery back up while it runs, say so. Don't leave us guessing.
Hi All,
This is the electronics of the pulse motor.
first step to control the firing of the pulse motor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVPeG40f2Uw
Tom 8)
Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014.11.29, 20:18:20
This is the electronics of the pulse motor.
first step to control the firing of the pulse motor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVPeG40f2Uw
hehe That's what I'm talking about!
What controller chips are you using Tom?
Hi Matt,
I'm using Atmega 328--- 32k 16mhz Avr program
Tom :D
Tommey,
How do you know when to zero your degrees counter? Do you have a extra index
hole in your encoder rotor to tell you that?
Alex.
Hi Groundloop,
No, I use a simple calculation that counts 5deg and resets it when it reach over 355 deg to 0-355. I also use a simple code to give me a one shot pulse each time the photo transistor is read. In other words if the photo transistor is still on, it will not allow constant pulse to my degree counter.
Tom O0
Tommey,
Thank you for taking time to answer me. I ask because how do you know when to fire
your PWM at the correct time if the motor can be at any position when you switch on
the power to your micro controller? Do you always turn the motor by hand to the
first hole on the coder rotor before you switch on the power?
GL.
Hi Groundloop,
I did add another single photo transistor to reset the degree reading, this now will tell each location of pistons and will correct the position when i spin the engine to start.
Tom..
Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014.11.30, 14:49:23
Hi Groundloop,
I did add another single photo transistor to reset the degree reading, this now will tell each location of pistons and will correct the position when i spin the engine to start.
Tom..
Tommey,
Great solution to a problem. Now you can (in software) hold off the firings of the coils until the
software has detected your index pulse and has reset the degree counter. Looking forward to your
video updates. You are doing some great work on your pulse motor build.
GL.
Hi All,
This is my update on the 2014 pulse motor build off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h86yZ1g4qU
Tom O0
@Tommy Reed
Based on your last video, may I recommend you use your flyback charged capacitor bank to run a trickle charger that will charge the battery with the 12-14vdc it requires and not any more.
For efficient battery charging you need to stay within the battery voltage range and you can go as high as 20% of the battery amperage rating, (but at 20% that's not trickle charge anymore) and a minimum would be 3-5%.
That same trickle charger can charge a second bank of caps that could actually run the device if the battery is removed and enough energy is stored to keep it going. The last reason for a trickle charge is to make sure the battery does not receive high transients that could be flushed into your control circuitry. Flyback usually wants to generate a nice "spark" that your control circuits may not like on its feed battery.
The other point is this. Flywheels need a minimum rpm to start acting like a flywheel and that is to maintain momentum while a coil is at off position. Tesla would use lot's of armature in his motors when they were destined to be pulse driven to do the same thing. But the point is due to the mechanical limitations of the pistons, piston rods and center camwheel, I doubt you will be able to reach any rpm that the flywheel will be able to carry over as free rotation because each 45 degrees will be a pulsed piston, you have to make sure that the pulses occur right after maximum piston extension otherwise you may be pulsing the piston if it is before or at maximum and push it in deadlock or reverse which could be catastrophic for the mechanicals because there is always that flywheel looking to keep the same directed momentum of rotation. Very precarious situation. No room for error.
So actually the pulse to the piston will be dependent of how far past the maximum you need to be at the point where the piston rod is connected to the camwheel has to be at enough degrees past center since the piston will receive a zero to full maximum push thrust instantly and not the gradual push you produced with your finger pushing down on the piston. Two very different motive forces. There is no gradual in on/off pulsing.
The last caution is to make sure you never touch the outer edge of the flywheel while the system is turning since that is where you have the strongest back leverage where a pressure of 1 on the flywheel edge will transfer as a pressure of 10 (or 100) on the shaft and while those pistons are pulsing that could break the device.
So now I get your device but can't wait for this build off to end. Then I can maybe convince you to try putting a belt on the outer edge of the flywheel, run it with a small fast rpm DC motor that uses peanut juice to run and see how much raw juice you can produce off the piston coils without requiring any control circuitry. What I am most interested in is how much those coils can really output and not the other way around with all these fancy do dads, precision pulsing, counting degrees, redirecting flyback, all these are nice to make a good show, but for OU, all it needs is some help to rotate without anything else. The flywheel with a few magnets and one drive coil on a reed switch would have done it all having great leverage, low pulse energy consumption, simple design and see the output then. Just me as an OU hound dog sniffing things out. hehehe
Always a pleasure to see your videos, your enthusiasm is definitely contagious so I am just trying to check your back and anticipate any catastrophic actions, since we all know from past builds of all types, shit happens.
wattsup
Hi All,
There is no problem with my design, this is a update on testing BEMF.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0UZU5JU8v8
Tom
Hi All,
Test run on the radial pulse motor..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3yFko2dI_M
Tom O0
Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014.12.02, 01:27:42
Test run on the radial pulse motor..
You da man Tom!
Question on the back EMF... If you put an LDO voltage regulator, say an adjustable one and set it to, oh, 13.2 volts, can you pump that juice back into the battery to keep it charged?
Hi Matt,
I could try that, but first I must change my magnet wire to 24 gauge, 18 is pulling too much amps..
Tom
Hi All,
Second test run, this time using a pwm to control speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwR6fkkr_w8
Tom
Hi All,
I have put my videos on hold until Dec 14th and won't allow no more videos until this build off is finished.
I still have lots more to do, but If I plan to win I don't won't to show my complete finished radial engine yet.
I locked all video until Dec 14th.
Thanks and I hope you all understand.....
I'm in it to win guys O0
Tom
O0
regards
Mike 8)
Hi all,
Just for the day I will allow to show this second test run....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwR6fkkr_w8
Tom
@Tommy Reed
It is smart to keep your device closed at this stage of the competition. But we can still talk about theory here since there are enough videos showing the effect so far, results of which are perfectly expected.
So let's see..................
OK, about the flyback recovery. In the general sense, flyback is the spike produced after a primary or motor coil is disconnected from a feed supply or pulse. Notice I am saying "a" primary, meaning "one" primary and "one" disconnection.
But in your build, you have 8 primaries under successive disconnection and during those times of disconnection, only one of 8 primaries is ON while the others are OFF. But the major difference here is that while the primaries are being turned on and off, there is the continuous in/out movement of the piston magnets.
This means that while a primary is ON it is a drive coil, but while it is OFF, it is a generator and thus, is not only producing flyback at off but also actual generator style output. So in essence, the 8 pistons are always in a state of 1 drive, 7 generators.
So in this design you will never really have a singular flyback event. Each flyback event will be mixed with 7 generator events.
The heat or amperage draw of the coils is therefore not only dependent on the applied feed source but the actual energy dynamics of the drive coil becoming a generator when off and all the conflicting energy mixes. There is another factor at play here and that is the flyback diodes are only sourcing energy from one polarity hence wasting the other. You may consider using bridge rectifiers instead of those diodes to at least skim both polarities out of the coils. Since DC is additive by the actions occurring inside the coil, it also has to be subtractive when there are counter-conditions inside the coils, so bridge rectifiers may be a better solution there.
Another solution for this is rather simple. Eliminate the flyback.
The reasoning that the drive coils are using wire that is too thick and this explains the amps draw, is not completely right. Using thinner drive coil wire will only mean more turns in the same spool of wire, that will increase inductance inside the coils and create more flyback but will still react like a generator at off, with all the same counter-conditions so the problem is only shifted upwards now with more coil resistance.
If you are to keep this design, I would do the opposite of what you plan on doing and this is to find thicker wire and wind only one layer of drive coil of let's say 5-10 turns as the drive coil. Then the energy you used to fill those big drive coils would be sent to a few turns of drive coil wire where all the energy can now be fully concentrated nearest the piston magnet. Then test the motive action and if your flyback is rising. If there is very little flyback rise and your motive action is sufficient, that is good. Then if you want, you can always wind a secondary over the one layer drive coils and connect them to your flyback recovery that would now simply be secondary recovery because now, the few turns of primary drive coil will produce very little flyback and very little generator output, to then become the real drive coil it should be.
OK last point is drive coil positioning. The piston magnet has an inner polarity pointing towards the camwheel and an outer polarity pointing towards the piston opening. The drive coil should therefore not be positioned directly centered over the full piston stroke length. It should be positioned so that when the piston is receding back towards the camwheel, only one side of the drive coil having the same polarity as the outer magnet polarity will then influence with a strong repulsion only from that one side of the drive coil.
The other option is to slide the drive coil down closer to the camwheel and use the outer polarity of the drive coil to attract the inner polarity of the piston magnet. If the wheel could work under coil-to-magnet as attraction mode, this would liberate the complete stroke length for you to wind a secondary coil over the normal stroke length. But if you ever do that, I would strongly recommend you consider the drawing I put up previously using multiple stacked coils instead of one coil. This will reduce the counter-conditions created by the magnet going in and out of the coil center.
Anyways, good luck man. I will be rooting for you, but remember, after the contest, you can do so much more with that build to push it to OU. hehehe
wattsup
Now this is what I call a pulse motor >:-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIDDSRJ_w8M
Some serious RPM here :D
regards
Mike 8)
Hi Cent..,
Put enough power into a motor and you can do just about anything, the sparks from the connection clearly shows a load with the transistor heat sink...
Tom :-\
Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014.12.03, 21:25:52
Hi Cent..,
Put enough power into a motor and you can do just about anything, the sparks from the connection clearly shows a load with the transistor heat sink...
Tom :-\
Hi Tom,
I would like to understand what you exactly mean.
If you refer to the sparks shown at video time 2:26 and / or at 6:29 when he connects the battery clip to the supply pins of the board, then those sparks I believe come about due the empty electrolytic capacitor, that cap charges up to 12 V. Until he starts to spin the rotor by hand, the transistor switch is open and there is no any current going into the circuit after the electrolytic cap is fully charged but the rotor is still stationary.
Thanks, Gyula
Hi Gyula,
That is just my opinion, heat sink on the transistor tells a different story...
I believe he is pulling 12@5a what I read on the drawing. You won't produce that speed unless you're pumping more watts in that motor that would need a heat sink.
Tom
Hi Tom,
It is okay that the bipolar Darlington transistor type (TIP142) he mentions in the video is not listed among the better switching devices and the collector-emitter saturation voltage ranges between 1V to 1.5V or so, this definitely heats the transistorup when some amper current is switched. I agree they are a waste to use in pulse motors if or when the highest efficiency is wanted. MOSFETs are much better in this respect.
I mainly referred to the second half of your sentence where the sparks were mentioned, that is what I did not get. Still wondering how you meant any connection between the heat sink and the sparks.
Greetings, Gyula
What brought this video to my attention was he mentioned that there is next to no BEMF, and why the very high RPM. I would be interested to know why there is next to no BEMF!!
regards
Mike 8)
PS. this guy seems to know a lot about pulse motors, a seasoned builder up to huge machines.
I find the cut out the cancer mindset curious, sad, and at times, more often than not, humorous. The majority view CEMF in a very negative light, I cannot comprehend the logic in this, but to each his own. It's argued, an argument supported by observation that when the CEMF is limited, the consumption increases, and we end up with a stronger machine, a good thing under certain conditions, but as its well known, such machines must be governed mechanically, so....bad thing if the mechanical coupling breaks down. In such a system if there is enough electrical energy doing mechanical work, failure in the mechanical coupling could lead to well....we all know what could happen.
Why we even entertain the idea that we should reduce CEMF production is interesting to me. To the machine the production of this force is as natural as breathing, something to think about, the breath of life was suggested elsewhere by another. For those who would take that as a statement meant to appease to the religious at heart, it was not... I'm also not in the business of converting folk as its also been suggested.
The question I pose to those who have spent any time contemplating this situation (To CEMF or Not To CEMF), wouldn't it make more sense to neutralize the effect (current limiting) that CEMF has on the system by finding and then applying an equal opposite force (CEMF)? What greater or better suited force than CEMF itself could serve as this equal opposite......uh....CEMF? If true then this would mean that it behooves us to establish the greatest possible number of oppositions to changes in current in such a system....wouldn't it? The higher the system CEMF the greater the neutralizing power we wield over its current limiting ability....right?
I find the idea interesting and feel support is given to such an idea when we remember that Tesla made the insane suggestion of adding choking coils, suggested that we "increase the circuits self induction, or in other words the circuits opposition to change in current, which means higher induced potentials (CEMF). I maybe barking up the wrong tree, but I don't think so......my opinion, and it doesn't mount up to a hill o beans.....we shouldn't limit CEMF, we should establish those conditions which would...LET IT RIDE!
Regards
Erfinder,
You've thought it out and have arrived at the
inescapable conclusion: Things are the way
they are for a good purpose.
Well said! Your reasoning is right on the mark.
Hi All,
I'm still working on my pulse radial engine, I want to win this pulse motor build off, so I'm adding goodies to the engine.
Tom O0
Quote from: muDped on 2014.12.04, 19:19:31
Erfinder,
You've thought it out and have arrived at the
inescapable conclusion: Things are the way
they are for a good purpose.
Well said! Your reasoning is right on the mark.
I agree, I like to say "Back emf is our friend" :).
Erfinder, said,
Quotewe shouldn't limit CEMF, we should establish those conditions which would...LET IT RIDE!
I take that to mean "Tune it to do what is desired".
..
Quote from: muDped on 2014.12.04, 19:19:31
Erfinder,
You've thought it out and have arrived at the
inescapable conclusion: Things are the way
they are for a good purpose.
Well said! Your reasoning is right on the mark.
I hope my reasoning is on the mark. My experiments lead me to believe that I am on the right track. Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Regards
Quote from: Farmhand on 2014.12.05, 01:11:32
I agree, I like to say "Back emf is our friend" :).
Erfinder, said,
I take that to mean "Tune it to do what is desired".
..
What CEMF is exactly? I've yet to cross paths with one possessing the qualifications to even offer an honest opinion. Tons of good research has been going on over the years though. The mechanism associated with the production of this force is well known and established. The genius who coined the term "Inductance" whether known or unbeknownst to the individual at the time of penning the definition, reveals their supreme understanding and comprehension of the relation that this characteristic has to the generated force. Inductance is loosely (loosely equates to really simplified....) defined as being the opposition experienced when current in a conductor
starts,
stops or
changes. This definition should send chills down ones spine, and it usually does when you finally see whats being said. The funny thing about this is the author leads you to conclude that we are dealing with a characteristic, we know deep down that its anything but a characteristic. We fight with ourselves and our peers, refusing to accept what could be considered as truth, because there is no precedent for the assumption, an assumption we won't even entertain. So that I don't come across as a tease, I'll just state what we all should be considering.
Inductance = Magnetism
In light of this, parameter variation as its discussed in these circles needs overhauling.
Before those in the know went black, suggestions were begin made that all we need is to establish a difference in potential, for potentials move currents, those statements back then made no sense, what current? They make perfect sense now, found the current. Time passed as it generally does and folk stopped considering those statements, and the individuals making them moved on to simpler things, simpler demonstrations.
At any rate, CEMF is neither my friend nor my enemy, it is the soul of the apparatus, there to assist me in pinpointing the exact location, and the exact moment when change in the magnetic environs has taken place. It's present whether I want it there or not, serving its purpose, a function which, when reading some posts, is beyond the comprehension of the majority.
In my opinion, the machines as I have come to comprehend them are mechanisms through which counter electromotive force is magnified, magnified CEMF equates to magnified magnetism, whether you can put that magnetism to practical use is immaterial, the point is its presence.
As you didn't ask a question, you simply made a statement, I offer the following. Tuning is automatic, resonance is full spectrum. To tune as your tone suggests, suggests limiting the system to the frequency the operator has determined will be the frequency of lowest possible impedance. This is not what I am suggesting. I am suggesting that Nature in its infinite wisdom has a mechanism which when comprehended, makes all frequencies "the" resonant frequency. For this to function the circuit must behave as if it were both parallel and series resonant, both simultaneously and sequentially. Tesla suggested this if not in word, then most certainly in deed, the works speak for themselves.
Regards
I will add my 5 cents :)
The CEMF term directly comes from Lenz law which basically express "for every action there is opposite reaction" and in mother Nature the opposite reaction is replaced by another opposite reaction of its own which redirects initial reaction to somewhere else then there is only action left to reach the balance... And that dual nature is in all over places.
Now if you think how we can mimic same behavior in induction, the CEMF is expressed by magnetic field of same polarity when the source magnetic field is trying to increase in strength on wire and it goes opposite to source when source magnetic field is weakening. On top of that in mechanical system we have kinetic force making this change and typically all generators and motors are using only 1 side of what mother Nature does so the fighting of kinetic forces of magnetic nature goes on over 100 years... All we need is to redirect Lenz force in middle of cycle so instead of single action there will be two actions in single cycle. Then you can control Lenz force in way you want as it won't be fighting against movement anymore.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2014.12.04, 08:24:50
What brought this video to my attention was he mentioned that there is next to no BEMF, and why the very high RPM. I would be interested to know why there is next to no BEMF!!
regards
Mike 8)
PS. this guy seems to know a lot about pulse motors, a seasoned builder up to huge machines.
Hi Mike,
On your question here is my 2 cents. First some further details on this pulse motor are included in an answer to mohammadreza in the comments under the video by the builder, Mister Caribbean Roots , I copied his answer here:
"Hi mohammadreza ramin,
Thanks for your comment and interest in my Pulse Motor. I don't have engineering drawings about it, i've just made some sketches by hand and went from there...that's how i always work... I have 3 videos of this PM and they are on my channel...
Here are the links for the other two, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52le_92C2GE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecOjxyaa4e0
For images you can make some screen shots of the videos.
Here are some extra information;
Magnets are south/north configuration, Rotor was made on a lathe and it's solid aluminium with 12 holes for the magnets with each hole at 30 degree angle,
Magnets are 20mm diameter x 10mm height and are N42 Neodymium ones, The rotor is made like a flywheel with most of it's weight on the outer edge and this help with the energy storage properties which gives a lot of momentum which is the reason why it keeps spinning for a very long time when the input power is disconnected (gyroscopes works on the same principle)
The drive circuit here is very basic, TIP142 darlington NPN transistor with a trigger coil, A diode from Emitter to Base,
A 400vac 0.1uf capacitor on the Collector and Emitter and this is to capture the b-emf (in my PM there is almost no b-emf), Theres a 1k resistor on the Base to the trigger coil. Trigger coil can be any coil but i prefer the higher resistance ones. this one here is a 59ohm one,
Run coil here is a very low ohm one, 0.6 or 0.9 ohm and it's a 1.2 or 1.8mm wire...can't remember which one it was...lol
The source capacitor is a 1000uf at 63vdc, A small black heatsink on the transistor and that's about it...;-)
This should be enough for you to make a pretty complete information lecture about this PM setup...
Cheers"
So I think the claimed low or no BEMF may come from two things. One is he uses an air core coil for driving the rotor, this coil must have a relatively low self inductance by the look of it, its DC resistance is well under 1 Ohm due to the thick copper wire he mentions, so the number of turns is defined in the overall size for the coil. And a low inductance coil has a low BEMF 'property'.
The other reason for a possible low BEMF is that the rotor magnet poles are alternating as NSNS so this means I think the followings: when the coil is switched on, the magnetic pole of the coil's side facing the rotor magnets would attract one rotor magnet and at the same time would repel the neighboring rotor magnet (timing is important). And while the coil is on, the flux bridge existing in the idle or off state is broken between the attracted and the repelled magnets, and the moment the coils is switched off the neighbouring magnets flux return to their 'bridged' to each other state so that much less 'stray' flux exists in the vicinity of the coil than it would in case of a NNN or SSS magnet placement. So the induction in the coil by the approaching or leaving magnets is less in the off state I think.
I think this setup could be improved further on by splitting the single drive coil into several separate air core coils, and connecting these coils in series to switch them on and off at the same time. Lets say the drive coil now has 180 turns and we make 6 air core coils with 30 turns for each, from the same lenght of wire we used for the 180 turns single coil. All coils diameter should be identical
This way more flux from other rotor magnets (which are not used at all in the shown setup) could be used to interact with the input flux at the same time, using the same number of turns, and the torque and rpm would increase while using the same input power like for the single drive coil. Putting this otherwise: by activating the 'dormant' rotor magnets in this setup with more coils versus a single coil you can reduce input power to get the same torque and rpm a single drive coil produces as shown.
Mister Caribbean Roots (who built this setup) replaced the bipolar switching transistor with a MOSFET switch and also he replaced the trigger coil with a Hall sensor, the video links shown above include these changes.
Regards, Gyula
Gyula, I already used two coils in series but in a charging circuit configuration, the current through the charging coil lags the main drive coil, I also used it in a push pull fashion by reversing the polarity of the charging coil so that the lagging current produced an opposite polarity which pulled the magnet just after the main drive coil pushed it.
I should have used invert on the scope.
Charging coil aiding to rotor drive while increasing the voltage switched through the main drive coil.
Skip to 7:20 in the video to see the effect of removing the charging coil so it's just working as a resonant charging circuit only, then the effect of using the charging coil to aid the rotor torque.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1_KlgJ09Bs
Timing effects.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0whkutQ7mNQ
The charging coil discharges it's flyback into the capacitor that discharges through the main drive coil and the flyback from the main drive coil can be returned to the supply capacitor before the charging coil.
As can be seen at the start of this video the motor can run with a quite small input at a good rpm and smooth from 12 volts but I had a boost converter at the input so I used it. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yukaj0QQzN0
..
What exactly are the Judging criteria for the Build off ?
..
Thanks Gyula O0
Yep I think you about hit it on the head there, he certainly builds a nice machine
regards
Mike 8)
Quote from: Farmhand on 2014.12.05, 13:54:52
What exactly are the Judging criteria for the Build off ?
..
Hi Farmhand,
I do not know the exact judging details and here is the link to learn about it:
http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=2159.msg29188
Thanks for showing your setups, they are a bit different from 'Mister Caribbean Roots' setup discussed here. When I have some more time, will try to go through your videos.
Gyula
Hi All,
Just a few more days to complete the 2014 pulse motor build off.
This is my update on my radial pulse engine test run.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWxWJrjjRVY
This is my basic specs.
Spec:
Radial Pulse Engine/motor/generator
Input 12v@3a max (motor input), stall load 56w
Input 9v@ 40ma (micro controllers)
8 coils 24 gauge at 100 ft each (2.567ohms)
PWM speed control
2 micro controllers for lcd and motor control (arduino base atmega 328 16mhz 32k)
ECM reading/controls
Rotational 5 degree steps (72 steps per complete rotation)
Control firing power stoke on each piston coil 0deg(TDC) to 180deg(BDC)
8 led piston firing lights
RPM reading (0- 3600)
Output:
BEMF collector from 8 coils
Tom
Tom O0
This might help some experimenters who are pulsing inductors (e.g. motor windings) and later are trying to recover energy from them.
When a rectangular pulse transitioning abruptly from 0 to some voltage V is applied to a resistor in series with an inductor (e.g. a coil) by closing the switch in the diagram below, then the following sequence of events happens:
(http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2684.0;attach=31149)
- 1) At the beginning (point A) no energy and no current is flowing (the switch is open).
- 2) Shortly after the rising edge of the stimulating pulse (after the switch closes), the current increases linearly
- 3) Some of the energy of the pulse is converted into the magnetic field in the inductor and some energy is dissipated in the resistance as heat. At this point the energy flows into the inductor faster than it is dissipated by the resistor.
- 4) After the time equal to 0.69 Tau (point B) the energy flow (a.k.a. power) into the inductor reaches its peak and starts decreasing afterwards, eventually reaching zero power and magnetic energy equal to ½*L*(V/R)2, at Tau >> 5
- 5) However the current through the resistor keeps increasing non-linearly but monotonically and asymptotically up to the V/R limit and the energy flow (a.k.a power), dissipated as heat in the resistor, increases similarly up to the V2/R limit.
- 6) After time equal to 1.15 Tau (point C), the magnetic energy accumulated in the inductor reaches the break even point with the total energy dissipated as heat in the resistor up to that point in time. Continuing beyond point C guarantees that more energy is dissipated as heat in the resistor than stored as the magnetic field of the inductor.
- 7) After a very long time the current reaches the V/R limit and the magnetic energy stored in the inductor reaches ½*L*(V/R)2 limit but the energy dissipated in the resistor increases ad infinitum at the rate (a.k.a. power) equal to V2/R.
For transformers, putting a load on the secondary winding (e.g. shorting it) has the same effect as decreasing the inductance of the primary winding (L). As a result of this, the Tau decreases and the current in the primary rises faster with time.
If the voltage V of the power supply is suddenly decreased to zero (while the switch is still closed), the sequence above reverses, the electric current in this circuit decays asymptotically back to zero but it does
not reverse direction and the energy keeps being dissipated as heat in the resistance as long as any current is flowing (i.e. the entropy does not reverse either).
THE POINT:
If a constant and linear inductor is charged and later discharged at the same rate, then from efficiency point of view, it makes no sense to charge it longer than 0.5757 Tau (½ of the time C, see pt.6), because if you do, then the energy dissipated in the resistance will be higher than the energy recovered from the inductor during its discharge.
For realistic good recovery efficiency from the above inductor, the charging time should be less than ⅛Tau.
(http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2684.0;attach=15806)
LEGEND:
Tau = L/R (a time constant)
V = The high level voltage of the stimulating rectangular pulse.
E
TOT = Total energy delivered by the supply to the series RL circuit.
E
L = Energy stored in the inductor as magnetic field
E
R = Energy dissipated in any resistance as heat
P
L = Instantaneous Power (energy flow) flowing into the inductor
P
R = Instantaneous Power (energy flow) dissipation in the resistance
i
L = The current flowing through the inductor (and resistor)
( I can post the relevant time-domain equations on request )
(http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2684.0;attach=21886)
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55541)
In pulse motors, which use energized coils to attract a soft ferromagnetic element of the rotor*, there is an additional significant phenomenon that needs to be accounted for.
For simplicity, let's consider an empty* air-coil (solenoid) possessing some inductance LMIN.
1) This empty air-coil is first energized up to some current (iMAX) from some external power supply.
2) For simplicity of analysis, the charging of the coil's current is stopped at iMAX, long before the point C (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2684.msg43692#msg43692) on the current waveform is reached and the coil is shorted to preserve the current in it.
3) A movable soft ferromagnetic element (nonconductive) appears a distance away from the coil.
4) Now the coil attracts the movable ferro/ferrimagnetic element (e.g.: a ferrite slug) towards itself, because current keeps circulating in the shorted coil and magnetic field B-gradient is generated by it.
5) As the ferromagnetic element approaches the coil, its ferromagnetic domains become increasingly ordered.
6) As the ferromagnetic element approaches, the coil transitions from a coreless coil to a cored coil and the inductance of the coil increases. In response to that, the current flowing through the coil's winding decreases in order to maintain the flux, which threads the coil, constant.
7) When the ferromagnetic element becomes attracted all the way into the coil, its inductance reaches maximum (LMAX) and the current flowing in it, reaches the minimum (iMIN). This would happen even in a superconducting coil devoid of resistance.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55543)
8) The coil is opened and all the energy circulating in it (½LMAX*iMIN2) is quickly discharged into a capacitor.
9) The order of the domains acquired in pt.5 is lost.
10) The movable ferromagnetic element continues to move away from the coil by inertia and unimpeded by attraction from the deenergized coil.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55545)
DISCUSSION
The decrease of current described in pt.6 will be manifested on the scope as flattening of the pulses' tops. This flattening can be confused with reaching the V/R limit (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2684.msg43692#msg43692) of the winding. To distinguish them, a dry run should be made first with the movable ferromagnetic element absent. The results of the dry run can be later subtracted out.
Furthermore, when the coil is discharged into capacitor in pt.8, it should be noted that the smaller this capacitor is, the faster the energy stored in the coil will be transferred into that cap. The downside of a small capacitor is that the voltage which it becomes charged to, is large.
In other words, the smaller the capacitor - the faster the coil's discharge but the higher the capacitor's final voltage because ½LMAX*iMIN2 = ½C*V2, and this transforms to V = iMIN*SQRT(LMAX / C)
Also note, that this capacitor and the winding form an LCR circuit that wants to oscillate at the frequency equal to 1/(2π*SQRT(C*LMAX)).
If the goal is to transfer all of the energy from the coil to the capacitor, then this oscillation should be interrupted after ¼ of the cycle, when the current in the coil is zero and the voltage in the capacitor is at its maximum. The energy stored in this capacitor can be transferred back into the power supply or used for supplementary supply to the coil in the next motor cycle.
Once all of the coil's energy is transferred into the capacitor, the resistance of the winding and the remaining circuit, cannot keep wasting it as heat and you can relax while preparing for the next cycle of your motor.
* Adams' motors do not do that.
Quote from: muDped on 2014.12.13, 05:13:11
For the average experimenter who does wish to maximize energy return from the inductor, what would be a practical oscilloscope display showing optimal pulse width?
A triangular or sawtooth waveform of current.
Any flattening of the pulses' tops (such as in a rectangular waveform) or decreasing steepness of the current waveform is an indication that the current is approaching the V/R limit of the winding and point C has been left behind a long time ago (see the yellow dashed line on the graph).
Wow thanks verpies. That should go into the documentation section as a permanent resource.
Hi All,
Just about done, boy this is a pulse engine/motor.
Spec:
Radial Pulse Engine/motor/generator
Input 12v@3a max (motor input), stall load 56w
Input 9v (micro controller)
8 coils 24 gauge at 100 ft each (2.567ohms)
PWM speed control
1 micro controller arduino 2560 mega
ECM reading/controls
Rotational 5 degree steps (72 steps per complete rotation)
Control firing power stoke on each piston coil 0deg(TDC) to 180deg(BDC)
8 led piston firing lights
RPM reading (0- 3600)
Output:
BEMF collector from 8 coils
Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014.12.13, 14:22:10
Just about done, boy this is a pulse engine/motor.
Are your electromagnets hollow air cored ones or sth else?
Are your pistons made out of a soft ferromagnetic materials or hard ones (magnets).
How do you prevent these pistons from hitting the electromagnets?
Hi verpies,
This is a air core set up, but could also be ferromagnetic fields.
The pistons are neo-magnets...
The pistons move through the hollow core and is energized when the timing is set with a 360 deg disk incoder.
Tom
OK, so you have hollow solenoidal electromagnets with hard ferromagnetic pistons (permanent magnets).
...but how do you prevent these pistons from hitting or rubbing these electromagnets?
HI Verpies,
I really don't know what you mean by how I'm not not hitting the electromagnets?
The magnet go through the tube where the outer field (electromagnet) is located.
Tom
Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014.12.13, 15:58:39
I really don't know what you mean by how I'm not not hitting the electromagnets?
The magnet go through the tube where the outer field (electromagnet) is located.
OK, that's what I wanted to know.
A tube is guiding the piston to go through the coil and the piston rubs the inside of this tube.
This tube acts as a linear bearing.
What material is this tube composed of?
Hi Verpies,
This was a test run I did a few days ago, but I needed to add a more powerful micro controller.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWxWJrjjRVY&list=UUVuWbGDWWuR8Wszuv4zmLgA
Tom
Hi all,
This is my understanding of how a real pulse motor should work 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol60QtAnxf0
Tom
Very advanced impressive device!
I would give you the first price.
Thanks NerzhDishual,
Now just wait when I show it running.... O0
Tom
Hi All,
This is my radial pulse motor generator entry.
3 minutes is short time to talk about this motor, but they are the rules.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bWRBHvb6mM
Spec:
Radial Pulse Engine/motor/generator
Input 12v@3a max (motor input), stall load 56w
Input 9v@ 40ma (micro controllers)
8 coils 24 gauge at 100 ft each (2.567ohms)
PWM speed controller
1 Arduino 2560 mega
ECM reading/controls
Rotational 5 degree steps (72 steps per complete rotation)
Control firing power stoke on each piston coil 0deg(TDC) to 180deg(BDC)
8 led piston firing lights
RPM reading (0- 3600)
Output:
BEMF collector from 8 coils
Good luck to everyone, some real good builds out there :cheerleader:
TLR
Hi All,
This is a complete build of this radial pulse engine from the start x8 the speed, no I'm that fast of a builder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U36pLafn_M8
Tom
Okay gang, this is what we have for the final entries:
http://rwgresearch.com/events/pulse-motor-build-off-2014/
Enjoy the show.
And do try to learn something. There is a lot of talent in those videos--something for everyone.
PhysicsProf, how about a rundown of what you find the most fascinating... ;)
Thanks for posting that link Matt they were inspirational!
Quote from: JimBoot on 2014.12.17, 12:44:56
Thanks for posting that link Matt they were inspirational!
Yes they are. I wish we had a clear self-runner entry to study though. Maybe next year if we don't figure something out sooner.
Hi All,
I am in Florida today, the weather is 75deg.
If I win or one of the winner I will be able to call in the smart scarecrow show Saturday show that starts a 7pm.
Say warm....
Hello All,
These are the winners of the 2014 pulse motor build off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOcXsR0lxxg
Tom :o :o
So, you won the second place!
Bravo O0
Hi All,
I would like to add that this did not seem like a good build off at all, there was no rules and just because a judge love HHO what did that have to do with pulse motor build off?
I know that others did a better build like MCR, I will rethink doing another pulse motor build off due to bias to others and no real rules.
I would rather have rules, then doing something that effect one of the judges opinion like add HHO BS, where does this have to do with pulse motor build off?
So I will recover my lost being 2nd place, but I would hope smart judges next year have rules that make sense, not a feel good effect running up someone leg because HHO goes boom.
My motor used 12v battery, not ac unlimited power like most of the builds where!
I believe these would be good basic rules for the next build off:
12v DC battery input only.
Input vs Output of watts.
Efficiency.
Mechanical linear or rotational pulse only.
These are rules that will always have the best 3 winners!
Tom
Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014.12.22, 23:04:14
I believe these would be good basic rules for the next build off:
I actually think these rules work just fine:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=526.0
Best I can tell, the pot is $1800, but that was quite a few years ago.
Quote from: Matt Watts on 2014.12.23, 07:37:15
I actually think these rules work just fine:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=526.0
Best I can tell, the pot is $1800, but that was quite a few years ago.
I agree that is the overall goal in this world-wide quest. And it is a lofty goal for those involved in the PMBO. No one has obtained that yet. I recommended to the other judges that we include "self-runner" as a goal, not as a "rule" but as a goal to work towards. I even offered a significant prize out-of-pocket for anyone meeting that goal - along with helping the innovator get this prize and others that are available for such an OPEN-SOURCE achievement! They felt there was not time for this PMBO, but hopefully this extra PRIZE will be in place for the next PMBO.
I'm willing to share the criteria I used in judging; the two other judges had different criteria.
Mine were:
Measuring Pin and Pout (or Ein and Eout)
Showing a diagram, preferably a schematic
Originality and cleverness
Replicability by others and low price
Any future applications?
Beauty
Recycling energy?
I went through each entry, some more than once, and assigned points for each criterion above. The judges have discussed coming up with a common set of rules and telling entrants about these BEFORE the next PMBO; I strongly encourage that!
I pulled hard for Tommey's entry BTW, and thought that several of the entries were really top-notch like his!
No one should feel bad, as we enjoyed all the entries and they were all very good.
It's not easy being a judge....
The Build-Off was well managed and the
decisions were sound.
It is important to assure that creativity and
innovation with modest expenditure of
financial resources are amply recognized and
rewarded.
Unconventional solutions to problems often,
at first glance, seem ridiculous. Thoughtful
study and contemplation help to appreciate
the value of 'outside the box' thinking.
Well done to all!
Hello All,
I Think the PMBO was great, but what I got was only 3 min video entry, where did others have enough time to measure input vs output and the other things to make a winner?
I think when you have no rules like this years build off, anything could be said. I did great follow what I thought was the basic rules of 3 min only entry. I would have win if I new the other rules.
Either way I had fun, and I know my build was not your average pulse motor in any sense.
I'm still waiting for Russ to respond to my Email to get 2nd winner cash, Maybe someone could let him know ASP.
I also did not like Z comments, he is such a jerk on Gary's show and saying I did not even come in 3rd...He clearly knows I will out build him in my sleep! Really don't like what he said, and thought it was wrong!
Any how, everyone have a great new year, and wish GOD makes you all happy as he does me.
Tom.
@PhysicsProf
You guys did a good job weeding through the entries. I have to say that @TR was a winner in my eyes because the first place winner had to many unknowns and was kind of spread out to thinly and we could not get any real idea of the build, the technical and the most important is the object of the build trying to answer "What are you trying to get across to the viewer".
@TR
I have to say it, you were the winner without a doubt if one looked at the proficiency of control required to successively discharge to 8 individual coils to create a rotational effect first against the initial load of the flywheel until it got going, so you get 10 on 10 for workmanship and mastery of control. I take one point off for only one reason. Although it is a great device to show how complicated it can be to turn a shaft via 8 pistons, as an OU seeker I'd rather see them 8 coils pumping out some power instead. Regardless, just to reiterate it would never be enough but your workmanship is just great.
Your device reminds me of a TV series called Gilligan's Island and I could expect the Professor to have made a device just like yours, clinking and clanking along as the rotations turn a shaft to do some crazy work like scratching your back or picking your nose or cracking coconuts. hahahahahaha
So the contest is over and my next question is obvious. Given you have all this in hand already, I hope it is not going on any forget me shelf and you will try and make this device go further.
Anyways, if you need any more "input", let me know. Sorry for pestering while you were in the throws of the build. I must say, I do not really enjoy such contests because I find it a major waste of time "and energy" hic-hic. Looking at all the builds in general, I cannot say I learned anything of great value which in my book should be the basis of all of these builds. In my book, such a contest should emphasize system efficiency and duration should be 60 days instead of 30 days. 30 days for anyone with a regular job, family, build or machining limitations, etc., is not much at all.
All the best in 2015.
wattsup