I get really tired of all the pointless nonsense concerning Free Energy so I thought I would start a thread which may actually be productive and to start we will need a new frame of reference.
The Question:
If anyone has an objection to "Free Energy" then please name one place, one single place in the whole of the universe which is devoid of energy?.
Being that nobody can name one place our new frame of reference should be that Energy is everywhere in everything...period. We do not have to wonder where it may come from because we know it is everywhere in everything therefore our most basic premise is that it is coming from somewhere whether we understand why or not. There is no nothing anywhere therefore there can be no "something from nothing" which is pointless, ridiculous and a contradiction in itself. If we can embrace this concept which seems pretty obvious then everything will get much easier.
The first issue is that most critics have a skewed sense of reality and they could walk outside with the Sun beating down on them in gale force winds in the eye of a hurricane and have a 1" spark jump to their hand when opening the car door yet still believe we have an Energy shortage. In fact it would seem they are completely oblivious to it and cannot seem to connect the dots considering the whole universe all around them is seething with Energy. They believe the whole of the universe and all matter is static and somehow devoid of Energy and everything will just slow down and stop at some point. That is one theory however in the real world we know everything is perpetually moving about on every level relative to us and everything is always changing. So there theory does not apply to us and can be discarded as it is not needed nor is it relevant. Our universe as we know it is dynamic and if you believe this is not true please refer to "The Question". You see the question is also the answer and if we cannot find an objection to it then it is probably true and if it is true then we have no shortage of Energy we must have a shortage of common sense.
To go further, how much does sunshine cost us?, what about the wind what does that cost us?, well it does not cost us anything and it is there for free regardless of whether we utilize the Energy inherent in it or not. Energy is not dependent on us or our silly beliefs or whether we utilize it or not and all Energy fundamentally relates to motion. The absurd notion that Energy doesn't exist unless it can be utilized or has value to us must have been born from city dwellers in cramped apartments running in circles seeking the almighty dollar because it bears no resemblance to the reality found in nature. The correct frame of reference must take us out of the equation because all the phenomena we see and measure relate to nature not science because we created science defined as the observation and study of natural phenomena... key word natural.
As well I think it is pointless trying to disprove Free Energy and I see many people who's whole existence seems to be based on this peculiar premise. Now let me get this straight, I should spend all my time trying to disprove free energy which will most certainly leave me with nothing because in my mind nothing can possibly work. Which leaves us where exactly?, Uhm well it leaves us nowhere to be exact so why would we spend so much time and effort doing this?. It would seem to be the most counter-productive thing a person could possibly do in my opinion. I prefer to spend my valuable time considering how something could work versus the many ways in which I believe it cannot.
Now that we have clarified what free energy is there should be no doubt it is everywhere in everything on every level and it is simply a matter of finding ways to access this energy. In any case the best thing I ever did was to stop listening to people and start observing nature first hand because at best people can only give us second hand information which is generally biased to the point it makes absolutely no sense. Apparently the whole universe is dictated by virtual particles popping in and out of existence from multiple parallel universes and I have some ocean front property in Arizona.
AC
The first thing i will say AC is-->bravo O0.
Some how the words !free energy! got tangled up with Overunity--> a very false statement indeed.
The other thing that peeves me off is the guru's saying that some ones device is only X% efficient,when in actual fact ALL devices are 100% efficient-->energy can be neither created nor destroyed-only transformed. In plain English,that means that all devices put out as much energy as they consume-period.
Then there is this whole OU debarkle. No device is,has ever been,or ever will be OU-->you cannot create energy-->!!although the question still stands-where did all the energy come from in the beginning of time :-\!!
The excess energy has to come from somewhere :-\,and a device will only remain a so called OU device until such time as the energy source is found and understood. O0
Free energy devices we have now-many of them,and they all deliver energy !!free!! thanks to mother nature-->free energy devices. ;)
O0 Great post AC. I find that people that look at me crazy when I mention free energy also believe in a "a long long time ago, there was nothing... which exploded" -Terry Pratchett. :o I've consumed pretty much all of Wal Thornhill's and Prof Don Scott lectures as well as watching Arp explain redshift. Turns out the universe is teeming with energy. It's frigging alive! Galaxies give birth to quasars ffs!
It turns out the Universe is a much more exciting, dynamic, vibrant place than I was ever taught. Even the concept I had intuitively as a kid, of so above so below, turns out to be right.
I am bewildered by those who want to tear down or disprove. What a way to spend your life.
Personally I love the concept that Wal Thornhil talks about of Electrically Modified Newtonian Dyanamics (edit). So don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
@jimboot
QuoteI am bewildered by those who want to tear down or disprove. What a way to spend your life.
You know when this forum started it was a very different place that it is now and there was a great deal of optimism and constructive debate going on. Then not unlike the science we know looking for answers somehow transitioned into you cannot say that or do that because in my opinion it cannot be true. In fact the moment something strange is noted many jump on board to automatically disprove it rather than trying to understand how this could further our goals here. Our goal is to understand and create a working free energy device not to enforce the rigid unyielding dogma's of present day science. We have more than enough extreme opinions out there willing to hold the status quo at any cost however we need more problem solvers and creative thinkers in my opinion.
The fundamental problem seems rather obvious, we are literally swimming in a sea of energy but we cannot seem to be able to find a practical way of accessing it. We know as an irrefutable fact that free energy is in everything everywhere in the known universe as such there is no need to continually debate this issue. I mean we know every star not unlike our Sun radiates massive amounts of high energy particles and EM energy therefore the universe must be full of this energy. We know every Magnetic field supposedly follows the inverse square law but extends to extreme distances therefore the universe must be full of moving magnetic fields to a greater or lesser degree. We know every Electric field supposedly follows the inverse square law but extends to extreme distances therefore the universe must be full of moving electric fields to a greater or lesser degree. It is simply absurd that anyone would suppose that energy might somehow travel from one place to another yet believe it does not exist between the two points. It violates everything we say we believe thus our premise must be based on a universe seething with energy on every level.
Thus I reject their claims that we have an energy shortage, I reject their claims that free energy is not the norm and I reject their claims that no device is able to harness this energy. In my opinion OU is simply a convenient distraction to hold to the norm because it is unworkable, something from nothing cannot work. However free energy is what will dictate our future, free abundant clean energy available anywhere in the universe is a game changer of epic proportions and this should be our goal here.
AC
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2015.03.03, 16:59:42
@jimboot
You know when this forum started it was a very different place that it is now and there was a great deal of optimism and constructive debate going on. Then not unlike the science we know looking for answers somehow transitioned into you cannot say that or do that because in my opinion it cannot be true. In fact the moment something strange is noted many jump on board to automatically disprove it rather than trying to understand how this could further our goals here. Our goal is to understand and create a working free energy device not to enforce the rigid unyielding dogma's of present day science. We have more than enough extreme opinions out there willing to hold the status quo at any cost however we need more problem solvers and creative thinkers in my opinion.
The fundamental problem seems rather obvious, we are literally swimming in a sea of energy but we cannot seem to be able to find a practical way of accessing it. We know as an irrefutable fact that free energy is in everything everywhere in the known universe as such there is no need to continually debate this issue. I mean we know every star not unlike our Sun radiates massive amounts of high energy particles and EM energy therefore the universe must be full of this energy. We know every Magnetic field supposedly follows the inverse square law but extends to extreme distances therefore the universe must be full of moving magnetic fields to a greater or lesser degree. We know every Electric field supposedly follows the inverse square law but extends to extreme distances therefore the universe must be full of moving electric fields to a greater or lesser degree. It is simply absurd that anyone would suppose that energy might somehow travel from one place to another yet believe it does not exist between the two points. It violates everything we say we believe thus our premise must be based on a universe seething with energy on every level.
Thus I reject their claims that we have an energy shortage, I reject their claims that free energy is not the norm and I reject their claims that no device is able to harness this energy. In my opinion OU is simply a convenient distraction to hold to the norm because it is unworkable, something from nothing cannot work. However free energy is what will dictate our future, free abundant clean energy available anywhere in the universe is a game changer of epic proportions and this should be our goal here.
AC
What a great post AC, my sentiments exactly, the energy is all around us and I think we are going about this all the wrong way to try and connect into it.
The testatika, not sure I've spelt that right, machine is a static generator I believe, which is converted into usable power. From what pictures there are, it does not seem a complicated machine (that is if it works).
These are machines which the way they work is kept very close to the chest of a few, so for me quite believable, no get rich quick rubish, they don' ask for or give anything. I have been zapped so many times by my garden gate that I'm frightened to touch it (cm long sparks at night) :D that is static and real, I maybe the charge carrier and I ground to the gate, but why is it the gate I discharge to when I have touched other grounded items before it :-\
regards
Mike 8)
@centraflow
QuoteThese are machines which the way they work is kept very close to the chest of a few, so for me quite believable, no get rich quick rubish, they don' ask for or give anything. I have been zapped so many times by my garden gate that I'm frightened to touch it (cm long sparks at night) Cheesy that is static and real, I maybe the charge carrier and I ground to the gate, but why is it the gate I discharge to when I have touched other grounded items before it
I would agree it is hard for any critic to succeed at anything when they are oblivious to the reality of what is happening all around them on a daily basis. I remember my first experience with free energy almost 40 years ago and it was profound. There was a thunder storm approaching in the distance almost ten miles away from the farm and I was going to the back yard and happened to brush up against my dad's 30 foot ham radio tower. At which point a spark nearly one inch long jumped to my arm and scared the crap out of me...I was about 10 years old at the time. So I stopped what I was doing and and ran to my shop and grabbed a piece of insulated wire a couple feet long and a pair of needle nose pliers.
I found that a continuous arc about 3/4" could be draw from the tower to the ground strap which was not connected because it was rusted through. It's hard to argue with those kinds of hands on in your face facts which speak for themselves. I mean I have a 250w Van De Graaff generator within my reach as we speak and it cannot even come close to the continuous arc coming from that ham radio tower. Imagine how a thunder storm 10 miles away could induce such power in a relatively short tower and many things become more clear. It just boggles the mind that so many could be so oblivious to things happening all around them. However I see it all the time and most people would seem to have a complete lack of curiosity concerning natural phenomena and seem more interested in textbooks.
It is as if our world and the whole universe were a symphony and the critics sit there with their books and their ear plugs oblivious to it thinking there is nothing to be done. Such is the human condition and progress is not for the timid but for the curious who are willing to stop and observe and listen to what nature is telling us. I stopped listening to their biased second hand information and decided to listen to nature because if we want accurate information we need to go to the source.
AC
Well I don't see anyone saying that harnessing environmental energy is a bad idea. Nor do I see any "skeptics" claiming a static Universe or anything like that. I see educated people explaining how to properly determine input and output powers/energy mainly and that is what upsets Over unity claimants most.
I think a lot of people make incorrect assumptions about others regularly.
No free energy is actually free to harness and utilize, there is a difference between the costs involved in the hardware to harness energy and the cost of the energy itself, all energy is free, the cost is involved in harnessing and utilizing it. This is true for all energy sources, no one paid for the oil that sits waiting to be tapped no one paid for the uranium that sits under the ground waiting to be mined. The costs are all due to people requiring payment for their time and effort.
I've been saying for a long time that efficiency is irrelevant for devices such as solar panels, the energy the panels harness is all free so all the output is also free, the only cost is in the hardware to harness it, the hardware to utilize it and the effort as in set up and maintenance. Also the panels are only designed to harness part of the light spectrum but the "efficiency" is calculated on the total solar energy per area unit. Still not as important as the fact that it's only the hardware we pay for.
There is also different meanings for free that apply to energy.
1) free as in no monetary cost.
2) free as in unbound and available
3) free as in someone else pays for it all to happen for you.(someone else pays and does the work).
I do understand that people are searching for new ways to harness "energy which is free" in a way that is more reliable than wind and solar ect. And to be truthful the levels of energy that some people are using for experiments is way too small to be properly measured by the average experimenter. And that leads to a lot of dodgy claims that bring on the skeptics.
Just recently TK from OU.com conceded that his "Aussie Radio" Crystal radio set was grounded to the house ground and that was likely adding to his LED output. That kind of oversight can only apply to tiny power levels.
The levels of man made noise around today compared to early 1900's is immense. Something that worked in the year 1900 may not work now due to being swamped by man made noise.
Then there is the argument about electro smog and if it is free energy. The thing I think of is if all man made noise and such were to be stopped suddenly would the device still work the same.
The list of electro smog OU claims is big, beginning with Dr Stiffler, in my opinion all his demos inside that lab showing tiny power levels "LED power" are defunct due to all the equipment around and the levels of man made noise.
I can light 5 mm LED's by holding one leg in my hand and touching the other leg to either terminal of the battery powering my 300 watt inverter, switching noise or something. I can also get a noise output from a single terminal of a second battery just sitting next to the battery powering the inverter so it would be a small step to setup a circuit so it is grounded to a single battery terminal not connected to anything else with one free terminal and have it light an LED with seemingly no input, but what good does that do. None except to excite and hype some people.
I see a lot of silly claims and if were not for the people calling for evidence of something extraordinary these forums would be even more clogged with spurious claims involving the same effects over and over again.
Resonant tanks accumulating energy from tiny inputs is not new or free, even switching unpowered coils with a mosfet or a BJT allows switching power to be transferred to the circuit and can accumulate. I would wager no one has attained an output greater than the switching power or the power used to facilitate parametric excitation from that line of research. If anyone had done it then they would have cracked the nut.
The real key to being free from the energy cartels is to minimize the energy you need to use, minimize wasted energy and find your own ways to harness enough energy for what you do need, every area has different levels of the different types of environmental energy.
If I walk outside and pick up a piece of tree wood and burn it to heat my home then that is free energy, I didn't pay for the piece of tree and the energy gained from burning it is way more than it took to pick it up and take to the stove to burn it. If anything is over unity then that is over unity too and it's free energy to boot.
Look at the big picture then simplify it, and the answers are simple. If I can harness enough free energy then I could sell it, The first 24 hours of the power failure due to the cyclone the only power we had was solar charged batteries because the generator got wet. We all watched tv and had light for free that night. I am the only one here that pays for the solar battery bank array, and I gave some of my free energy away, so for them it was really free by any meaning of the word.
I've been trying to convince the boss to get a bank of batteries to charge from the solar grid tie power so there is emergency power for such times. I got no thanks because it embarrassed them that I had to supply them power from my small emergency setup.
The power was off for over a week and people even came asking for batteries and inverters from me, I had to say no as I needed it for myself. THey could turn off the grid and I would still have light and power to run a tv or computer and charge whatever devices I want.
We can all do something to help ourselves. Even if it must be saved for to buy the hardware. The real key to keeping small solar setups cheap is taking good care of the batteries. I use Tractor batteries but only because they are needed for other things here and if one fails I can replace it immediately from my bank. The boss already owes me for one tractor battery. If he doesn't do some maintenance or order it done on his tractor he'll need another one soon. Some people ya just can't help.
Civilized behavior usually means that people agree upon a set of guidelines or rules of behavior. Poynt99 was kind enough to give of his time and draft a set of rules of behavior on this forum, the "Power and Creed" document. Many may not have read those rules, or because of their belief they are above the rules, believe they need pay no mind to the rules. If you disagree with the rules of behavior, you can petition the present global moderators for an amendment.
If you want this forum to maintain the high standard it started out with, you will have to moderate yourselves to that end. If you don't mind that it degenerate into the likes of EF or OU.com then just let anything be posted, no matter the rules.
In the past I was global moderator, but resigned that position, as it is a difficult, thankless one, You don't make many friends, people get all pissy and their knickers in a twist when you remind them of the rules, no matter how gently you try to do it. The latest round has taught me a valuable lesson and was also very revealing.
Regards
ION
If I might add
as a group , we're a different slice of society,we "Boldly Go" and really don't like rules.
a bit rebellious ...
A conundrum which was solved by a set of rules which as ION has pointed out can be amended .
Here we really have something special ,some truly brilliant minds willing to
work and investigate outside the Box. To the last man I believe all here
are open minded about OU or free energy or whatever you might like to call it.
We needed to discuss this ,and I'm glad we are. I just hope we can stay friendly
during this process as well as realize how hard it must be to keep a diverse
group like this on a steady keel and not loose sight of the goal.
Respectfully
Chet
@Ion
QuoteCivilized behavior usually means that people agree upon a set of guidelines or rules of behavior. Poynt99 was kind enough to give of his time and draft a set of rules of behavior on this forum, the "Power and Creed" document. Many may not have read those rules, or because of their belief they are above the rules, believe they need pay no mind to the rules. If you disagree with the rules of behavior, you can petition the present global moderators for an amendment.
I read the document and Poyn99 did a very good job in my opinion. You know there are only a few things that get me going and all of them involve a contradiction in terms. Apparently I have a real issue with it and when I saw free energy lumped in with OU I will admit I went a little overboard. Another major issue I have is a lack of proof somehow being proof of something which drives me off the deep end. My thinking is generally methodical and the I use a logical progression of though based on clear definitions. Hence "Free"--"Energy" means what it implies by dictionary definition regardless of popular opinion or slang. Free Energy means free--energy, Energy is Energy, not something from nothing.
QuoteIf you want this forum to maintain the high standard it started out with, you will have to moderate yourselves to that end. If you don't mind that it degenerate into the likes of EF or OU.com then just let anything be posted, no matter the rules.
I think it is a precarious path because as Chet had implied people who think outside the box are generally rebels at heart and it is well known that most all the most brilliant minds in history had nothing but contempt for their peers. In a sense it was this contempt for others obvious ignorance to the facts which drove their relentless pursuit of success. So while I do believe in standards and moderation I also believe trying to constrict a brilliant mind is like herding cats...it just don't work.
You know I used to work around some pretty brilliant engineers and scientists and after a while a distinct pattern of behavior emerges. I figure over 95% of the people were drones and couldn't succeed at much of anything complicated or abstract if their life depended on it. They all follow singular individuals who always lead the way and then they all share in the success. There are brilliant people who think outside the box and lead the way by their rules but if we want to shackle them to our person flavor of mediocrity then we will all lose. They were not meant to be like us nor think like us or follow our rules and if we recognize them then we should have the common sense to let them do there own thing and hear them out.
When I hear someone with a brilliant idea way outside the box I don't throw my textbook at them I listen with open ears because I am in the presence of genius. They will change our future not drones but it should be understood there is a little genius in all of us. It starts with...what did I just write, why did I think that, what does that mean and ends with OMG.
I think everyone here does one hell of a job of keeping things in balance and as you say this place is a far cry from the other forums which seem to vary from one extreme to the other.
AC
Well said,
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2015.03.03, 16:59:42
Our goal is to understand and create a working free energy device not to enforce the rigid unyielding dogma's of present day science. We have more than enough extreme opinions out there willing to hold the status quo at any cost however we need more problem solvers and creative thinkers in my opinion....
AC
And I concur with TinMan also,
QuoteThe excess energy has to come from somewhere Undecided,and a device will only remain a so called OU device until such time as the energy source is found and understood.
As I've also said in other words several times.
Thus, I prefer to say that
we collectively are seeking to find a "presently UNTAPPED source of energy", one that we may not even know exists, yet.
As an example, we know that fusion exists and "works" -- on the sun, for instance.
But how about fusion occurring at or near room temperature? Experiments now show that it exists, yet can we boost the yields and the replicability such that "near room-temperature nucleosynthesis" becomes useful?
That is the question, IMO.
Note about semantics: I've found that some people get literally angry when they hear terms like "cold fusion" or "overunity" or "free energy" or "perpetual motion" - and the emotions distort the meanings badly.
I stay away from these terms generally.
So, we can find other terms which don't have so much emotional baggage... Notice how I used "near room-temperature nucleosynthesis" above... no problem!
We are humans, and not as objective or scientific as we (or many) purport to be.
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2015.03.05, 02:25:14
As an example, we know that fusion exists and "works" -- on the sun, for instance.
Probably sound like a fanboy but not according to the EU guys. There's no fusion happening. It's a plasmoid.
The present body of scientific knowledge is something to be used as a work in progress, to be built upon, change parts of when better models are derived, and in my humble opinion the work of the foundational pioneers in science is to be honored.
The steady progress of science and engineering has brought many wonderful inventions forth, but they are all just incremental advances by researchers upon the prior work of others. Once in the while, a truly brilliant mind comes along and a large forward step is made, but when viewed as part of the bigger picture, all of the steps are rather small and definitely required the foundation of the prior work.
Anyone who has studied the history of science and technology knows this to be true.
The body of scientific knowledge to date is not something to be shunned or feared (unless one has a father or other authority complex and are still prone to wet the bed, in that case seek mental health help)
Yet there are those who would want you to throw out the books, disregard the prior body of acquired knowledge. Ok that's fine, then be prepared to throw a few other things out that knowledge , science and engineering have delivered to you.
For example, throw out your comfortable home and central heating / cooling system, electic lighting, your automobile, your powerful computer, your accurate digital meters and scopes, your telecommunications devices that allow you to share information with anyone anywhere in the world. Throw out your copper wire and coils and magnets and ball bearings, transistors and LED's, capacitors and diodes.
Then you can spend all your time gathering firewood, nuts and berries, and carve your rants against science on a cave wall with a sharp stone, if you have any free time to do so.
I have to truly wonder at the immature; without perspective, that have not taken their thinking very far however believe they are a yet to be discovered genius. They surely are suffering Dunning-Kreuger syndrome, if not something worse.
I am in total agreement with PhysicsProf: "we collectively are seeking to find a presently UNTAPPED source of energy"
That's good enough for me, I never liked the word "free energy" because nothing is free, there is always a price to paid. The word "Overunity" is not to my liking either, as it is difficult to properly define.
Regards
ION
Well Said Ion, If it matters I totally agree with you and the Professor on this.
PhysicsProf said
QuoteThus, I prefer to say that we collectively are seeking to find a "presently UNTAPPED source of energy", one that we may not even know exists, yet.
Well there is plenty of untapped energy in ferromagnetic material, see my paper (apologies if I have posted this before).
If PhysicsProf still teaches physics perhaps he would like to try the air-cored transformer idea where the magnetization normally inside a ferromagnetic core material is simulated by a driven coil. It should exhibit classical transformer action and would also demonstrate the flow of energy to and from the quantum world that is never really considered.
Smudge
Quote from: Room3327 on 2015.03.05, 18:43:42
Well Said Ion, If it matters I totally agree with you and the Professor on this.
It matters ! We thank you for your acknowledgement. :)
Fish is living in lake. It doesn't feel water around, because water do not react to the slow and not abrupt changes. By try to slap water surface fast with bare hand ???
Ding ding what about the field around us ? People are blind ? People do not think clearly ? Would cosmic rays destroy us immediately if we don't have powerful shield ?
@PhysicsProf
QuoteNote about semantics: I've found that some people get literally angry when they hear terms like "cold fusion" or "overunity" or "free energy" or "perpetual motion" - and the emotions distort the meanings badly.
I stay away from these terms generally.
I do as well and use the term Alternative Energy when talking with others about my work. For the most part I think it is correct as I do not consider it extraordinary now that I know what it is. It is simply an alternative to our complete reliance on others for what we consider a necessity in our lives...it is freedom. It is strange when I read posts such as Ion's because I grew up on and live on a farm where self-reliance is the norm and we know a sense of independence and freedom like few in the city can imagine.
Alternative Energy is not so out of place as I have found the majority of the population have literally no idea how the other alternatives such as wind, hydro and solar actually work. I mean they understand the wind may turn a propeller which turns a generator however that it the extent of their understanding. I believe a free energy device is not unlike a solar cell and I have little bias between the two other than the fact one also works at night. I have problems understanding why everyone has to make such a big deal out of this and introduce so much confusion and hearsay into the equation.
We will understand we are swimming in a sea of energy and we will learn how to utilize this energy in the future, those are the facts whether we want to believe it or not. We will learn and we will evolve or we will die because what we presently do is not a sign of intelligence...far from it.
Ac
From AC
QuoteIt is strange when I read posts such as Ion's because I grew up on and live on a farm where self-reliance is the norm and we know a sense of independence and freedom like few in the city can imagine.
Could you expand on that a wee bit as I don't see the contradiction between you having grown up on a farm and my post. Kindly explain how it is strange.
Regards
ION
@EM
QuoteWind, hydro, solar, nuclear, and chemical enery are all "free energy" if we think about it, but because man is greedy, some entrepreneur always injects himself between us and our free energy resources. Because they make a one time capital investment, they feel like they now have to charge endlessly for this free resource. Now it's a business, there's profit to be made, there's maintenance costs, distribution costs, taxes to be made, pensions to pay, employees salaries, etc..
So the problem is not a shortage of free energy, but of compassion for ones fellow men. Our planet is cursed. Almost everyone wants to climb higher and make more money and be wealthier then his neighbor instead of being content with what they have.
Awesome, I could not have said it any better and I think you nailed it.
Look around, we are literally swimming in a sea of Free Energy and nobody owns it nor are they entitled to it regardless of what they may believe. The energy corporations simply act as middlemen between the Energy and the consumer which allows them to dictate terms however we have always had a choice.
As I sit here drinking my coffee just outside my window a nice breeze is blowing and this could easily power my whole farm. It's just there doing it's thing day in day out and it is completely free and all I have to do is build a wind turbine to harvest this energy. I understand many like to confuse the issue because their life revolves around money however this is nothing but a distraction. All that energy sitting just outside my window is 100% free and nobody owns it and it is there for whomever wishes to extract it.
As well when I went outside I could feel the Sun beating down on me. Nobody owns it nor do they own the Energy I received from it and this could easily heat my whole house whenever the Sun is shining if I chose to utilize it.
I think this OU mumbo jumbo is simply a distraction and Energy is Energy. It would be very convenient to have a free energy source 24/7 however it is not a necessity because all the Energy I could ever want is sitting just outside my window. I think we need to do away with the mystery and heresay and understand all energy is free energy. I mean I had to laugh when I finally got it, the revelation that there is no energy shortage anywhere there is a shortage of people who understand the true nature of energy and how to practically extract it from our environment.
AC
@Ion
QuoteCould you expand on that a wee bit as I don't see the contradiction between you having grown up on a farm and my post. Kindly explain how it is strange.
QuoteI never liked the word "free energy" because nothing is free, there is always a price to paid.
You keep talking about money and the price we pay. Hell when I was a kid we had no money and had to walk twenty miles to school in the mud and both ways were uphill. Only we couldn't even walk uphill both ways because we had no pants let alone fancy pants...couldn't afford em. Nothing went to waste and Pa wouldn't even let us talk because we were wasting air... times were tough.
Sure we need money but obsessing about it and living your life based on acquiring more of it is not a full life in my opinion, there is more to life than money. I'm not sure if you have a wife and kids but it tends to put a whole new spin on one's priorities and their future becomes a major concern. In any case the analysts say the U.S. will fold soon under the economic pressure they created and most likely take us with them. We will be burning our currency like wood by the cord not unlike the great depression. I'm not prepared, nobody can be prepared for this shit but I have knowledge and can produce as much Energy as I need from next to nothing.
When the shit hits the fan my house will be the one with the lights on Ion and my kids will never want for Energy...it is free for the taking and I taught them how to get it. So you hold on to those dollars tight because your going to need them to heat your house.
AC
I must be confused ,I never thought Poynt Or ION were speaking of a monetary cost.
I felt the "Price to pay" was the energy cost of running the devices being tested.
and you always have to pay for losses in a system.
I usually don't get an additional bill for these losses,sorta Pay as you go thing..
Confused in New England !!
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2015.03.06, 21:14:14
@Ion
You keep talking about money and the price we pay. Hell when I was a kid we had no money and had to walk twenty miles to school in the mud and both ways were uphill. Only we couldn't even walk uphill both ways because we had no pants let alone fancy pants...couldn't afford em. Nothing went to waste and Pa wouldn't even let us talk because we were wasting air... times were tough.
Sure we need money but obsessing about it and living your life based on acquiring more of it is not a full life in my opinion, there is more to life than money. I'm not sure if you have a wife and kids but it tends to put a whole new spin on one's priorities and their future becomes a major concern. In any case the analysts say the U.S. will fold soon under the economic pressure they created and most likely take us with them. We will be burning our currency like wood by the cord not unlike the great depression. I'm not prepared, nobody can be prepared for this shit but I have knowledge and can produce as much Energy as I need from next to nothing.
When the shit hits the fan my house will be the one with the lights on Ion and my kids will never want for Energy...it is free for the taking and I taught them how to get it. So you hold on to those dollars tight because your going to need them to heat your house.
AC
When I said the word "price" , I was not talking about money,
I never mentioned the word money.
There are other prices we pay besides money, but I think you missed my point.
Very revealing though!
Regards, ION
@Ion
I know I was just howling at the moon again.
I need to stop reading the news because it freaks me out and I see no way out of this quagmire. She's full steam ahead boy's while water rushes in the bilge, let's just hope we get close to shore when she goes down.
AC
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2015.03.07, 00:58:37
@Ion
I know I was just howling at the moon again.
I need to stop reading the news because it freaks me out and I see no way out of this quagmire. She's full steam ahead boy's while water rushes in the bilge, let's just hope we get close to shore when she goes down.
AC
Dear Allcanadian.
It's already happened !! :)
Cheers Grum.
Once, I was invited to some young folks apartment for dinner. When I got there, I noticed that many of the windows were open in the middle of a cold January day, and the electric heat was on full.
I asked why and she replied "We like the fresh air and besides the heat expense for this apartment is free we only pay a fixed rent, the heat expense is paid for by the landlord.
This is what I was referring to when I said there is always a price to be paid, energy is never really free when there is an attitude of irresponsible use. I believe if it were truly free , as a society and for the most part, that we are not mature enough to handle such abundant energy properly . There would be incredible waste, conservation efforts would "go out the window" because there would be no point to it with energy "too cheap to meter ".
The irresponsible use of truly free energy would probably cause great devastation to the planet.
When the natural flow of rivers is plugged by hydroelectric dams, after the cost of the dam is paid for, the energy is virtually free, only the cost of maintaining the generators and transmission lines remains. But what is the actual cost of such extraction of energy to the environment and the earth?
My point was, with wind, solar, hydro, nuclear, bio, there is always a hidden, not so obvious cost to be paid.
@Ion
QuoteThe irresponsible use of truly free energy would probably cause great devastation to the planet.
I hear you and I apologize for my remarks, I have such great hope to help make thing better and then I read the news and I question why I even bother. I get frustrated at myself and everyone else because I see no real workable solution here. I'm the kind of guy people give a problem and I solve it for as long as I can remember but I have no answer for this one. The technology is pretty straight forward but for the life of me I cannot understand the motivations of the people I would give it to.
In a nutshell, I get a little moody and confused when I see what going on out there in the world.
QuoteMy point was, with wind, solar, hydro, nuclear, bio, there is always a hidden, not so obvious cost to be paid.
I would agree, we seem to jump into technology with both feet and only after the fact do we see the problems we have created. Most hydro dams here have decimated the salmon populations. Not only have we destroyed their breeding grounds but if they manage to survive the massive ocean trawlers pick off what remains. It just blows my mind that we seem to destroy everything we touch and there is no foresight present.
In any case I apologize for my negativity and it just keeps creeping into my thoughts somehow, my new years resolution was to stop this shit but it is not as easy as I thought. I may need to become a hermit and ignore that crazy world out there, lol.
AC
AC
No apology necessary. It's just one of the problems of the typed message, the information bandwidth is very low and subject to misinterpretation. Not anyone's fault, and since I hate typing, I often don't explain things in detail.
I'm sure if we met in a pub we would have no problem communicating, and we would be trading a few beers.
Kind Regards
ION
Quote from: Grumage on 2015.03.07, 13:38:32
Dear Allcanadian.
It's already happened !! :)
Cheers Grum.
Wow, the times I've been down that road, makes me a bit home sick :)
regards
Mike 8)
The trickle down effect of low oil prices is starting to to take effect here in Canada and when talking with a few people it became apparent they have no real understanding of the term Energy. They believe oil and gas has no relation to solar energy, The Sun, nor alternative energy and cannot seem to see past their own nose. I was thinking about alternative energy this morning when it occurred to me ... alternative to what?.
Oil and gas is simply a condensed version of solar energy because the Sun made plants grow which then died and were then buried and over time became condensed hydrocarbons. However we can do exactly the same thing with organic matter right now using pyrolysis so really what were talking about is nature providing the process to convert solar energy into hydrocabons when we speak of oil and gas. Now if solar energy is solely responsible for the oil and gas in the ground then how is a solar panel converting solar energy more directly alternative energy?. The whole construct would seem to be quite absurd to me because the terms conventional, alternative and free energy are simply minor variations of exactly the same thing.
So the only difference between natural pyrolysis and modern pyrolysis is that nature has stored the condensed hydrocarbons (oil and gas) for us in the ground from organic matter over a very long time frame. However even now intelligent people are starting to catch on and the Saudi's recently stated that even oil at $10 a barrel cannot compete with modern solar energy. The answer seemed obvious to me because modern solar energy converts solar energy almost directly in real time and we have no need to gather it by boring holes in the ground which is a primative concept at best. In essence we could say we are still making the transition from hunter gatherer's to farmers today and the modern solar farm will replace the need to hunt for dirty unsustainable resources.
Personally I have always been able to foresee the evolution of technology decades before it becomes mainstream and this one seems obvious. We are still thinking as primitive hunter gatherer's but will soon transistion to energy farmers in the near future and the lext logical step is ....?. The next logical step is that we will not hunt for or gather resources from long term solar energy to produce electrical energy, it will not be solar farms to convert solar energy however we will create systems which allows the energy to come directly to us with no intermediary steps. We extract electrical energy directly from the environment in real time as electrical energy with no conversion process. Here we can see the progression in technology however I have found few are asking the right questions nor have they been able to connect the right dots.
In my opinion there is no conventional or alternative or free energy and these are simply a convenient distraction from the truth, Energy is Energy. Fundamentally if there were no stars not unlike our Sun then the whole universe would be a cold, dark, lifeless space full of dust so I think we know where all our Energy comes from fundamentally.
AC
We are living in the sea of energy like fish is living in ocean :-*
AC,
I agree that the sun is our ultimate source of energy, which by various modes of transmutation and transformation becomes manifested in more physical forms, like oil.
My problem with a lot of alternative energy movement is that it seems to support industries that continue to produce massive quantities of solar panels, wind generators of all sizes that will become obsolete, and will fail through wear and tear - the way of all things, I suppose. But it's an industrial mass production model that dictates a script within which people seem content to function and dream, kind of like that movie with Jim Carrey living in a fake world (can't remember the name of it right now). The world was real enough for him, but at some point, he got the sense there was more out there for him.
The old paradigm within most still function keeps people within a small world of possibilities.
My main problem with this scripted paradigm is that it serves well those who control and benefit from the manufacturing industries and all the other parts of world economies that feed into and out of it.
There is no room for true subsidiarity, where the individual accesses power from the sun in potent ways that can power a household and render the grid obsolete.
FWIW
Bob
Note: Forest - I guess you and I were writing at the same time. I saw your post, and quite agree.
I was also thinking of aliens this morning, lol. Now imagine an intelligent species that evolved so it could absorb energy as radiation and had a fundamental process not unlike a plant absorbing essential nutrients and water from it's environment ie. aquaponics. There would be no need to hunt nor gather anything, no need to farm or eat or excrete anything. So from the start they would have no real need to do what we spend a majority of our time doing and the whole hunter/gatherer/farmer agricultural sector would become meaningless. Now throw in a few thousand years of intelligent thought and knowledge compared to our last 300 years of absurdity and it seems pretty obvious how a species could operate on a level we hairless primates could hardly imagine. There in lies the problem I think, we cannot do what we cannot imagine and what most normally do in the general population is absurd and counter-productive.
I decided to make a fresh start and stop watching the news, I don't need to continually become agitated because of others stupidity and I believe it holds me to their primative level of thinking. I don't need to be reminded of the worst of humanity I need to aspire to be better than them and stop repeating their mistakes... a work in progress.
@Bob
QuoteBut it's an industrial mass production model that dictates a script within which people seem content to function and dream, kind of like that movie with Jim Carrey living in a fake world (can't remember the name of it right now). The world was real enough for him, but at some point, he got the sense there was more out there for him.
I agree 100%.
AC
My theory is simple and evolved during years. Magnetic field is ether in circular movement like two tornados. So we are living on the mettalic ball powered by cosmic currents creating around magnetic shield which is able to push away every cosmic particles and we still think where is energy ?
@Bob
QuoteThe old paradigm within most still function keeps people within a small world of possibilities.
My main problem with this scripted paradigm is that it serves well those who control and benefit from the manufacturing industries and all the other parts of world economies that feed into and out of it.
There is no room for true subsidiarity, where the individual accesses power from the sun in potent ways that can power a household and render the grid obsolete.
I find it strange that so many believe they are independent however all we have to do is switch that power off and they would understand just how completely dependent they are. No power, no heat, no water, no food in the stores, no fuel for their automobiles... they would be helpless. In fact they are completely dependent on others not unlike a child and it is simply a matter of time before they learn how irresponsible they have been in not planning for the unexpected. It is also strange that many consider this paranoia, ie.."Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion". No irrational is going through life thinking nothing unexpected will happen and someone will always be there to help us. It's odd that those same psychologists who would call someone paranoid would be the one's sitting in their cold, dark house freaking out because they don't have a clue what to do and are completely unprepared.
Personally I believe in the win/win scenario and I'm developing many different kinds of alternative energy technologies so I save on my power bill, so I am independent of others and I am prepared for the unexpected. It's not paranoid in my opinion it is something responsible adults should be considering if in fact they are as responsible as they claim.
I should note I think everyone here knows this and it generally applies to the younger generation and non-technical people in the general population.
AC
AC
I brought you a movie to keep you up at night instead,
been searching LENR Videos thru Roku on you tube and this was in the mix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C25RTDXFNWY
seems during the beginning of the Tsunami in Japan these white Vapor Beasties [cloud vapor]
started coming out of the water in one spot, think about a good disguise on this planet
to hide from us terrestrials...
Fog ,clouds .... steam Vapor in the shower... :o