Dear All.
Chet spoke to me this morning regarding the above titled topic, and in particular, the claim by Clarence of a self sustaining system.
Here is a link to the thread over at OU. Com.
http://www.overunity.com/13721/energy-from-the-ground-self-powered-generator-by-barbosa-and-leal/1110/#.VR6nRXlFBaQ
It seems that Chet is not too far away from the supplier of the Ferrite primaries that Clarence is using. He is suggesting that maybe someone could try out a replication ??
Cheers Grum.
Dear All.
I was privy to some information way before that thread was started from OU member ARIOVALDO. Who had purchased one of Barbosa and Leal's devices directly. At a very heavy personal cost he then dissected the device and made the internal construction known to all interested parties !! O0
I have attached a photo of the " Heart " , clearly an electric motor stator with windings removed.
Cheers Grum.
Grum
I suppose I will be doing a replication of this one [since I can go see the manufacturer /importer ...?
To be honest I have not really followed that thread from Day one ,and I had the opinion that they
were doing a groundloop ...[I have been tricked by that before]
However That has completely changed since the claim of complete Grid Autonomy has been made.
when Clarence made the 20-80 comment I thought he was reffering to 20% from the mains.
NO it seems 20% from the battery driven inverter yields 80% mire power to use
100 watts in 400 watts out.... :o
Clarence seems a most genuine and sincere man ,We all know an inverter can run a load,now it would be nice to
know how Clarence has measured this ..?or has he already mentioned??
Brad had the impression he was using lightbulbs??
any one know??
Clarence most recent comment was 12KW...thats a Lotta Bulbs??[doesn't sound right]
of course I must add I can't tell you how badly I would love to see this work...
I want to send Tariel and the shark a big Hug for wasting sooo much of our time ......
BUT, who knows... we shall see .
no stone left unturned.
Chet K
Dear Matt.
Yes, I am almost sure that is the correct schematic. If you read the thread there was some consultation via PM between Clarence, wistity and Void. wistity is a member here so perhaps will shed some better knowledge than I can ?
Dear Chet.
A replication, good for you !! O0
Aking.21 and I were almost 100% certain that the B&L device was no more than a Single Wire Earth Return ( SWER ) capture device. Think of the consequences if the word got out that you could intercept your countries electricity for next to nothing !! :D
Perhaps you should reach out to Clarence ? Join him in here ? Just a thought !! ;)
I am feeling a little grim ATM so please excuse my apparent lack of enthusiasm !! ;)
Cheers Grum.
Graham
Hoppy just asked him to take a reading between the neutral in his house and the ground rods, In the US they go to the same place ,should be zilch in the way of Volts .
Clarence has mains voltage between the two ....[120 V]...
Now I am also remembering that one device I was replicating and eventually stopped [Groundloop??]
the fellow was saying that he could actually get power between Grounds ...ONLY grounds...? on his property
and he even did experiments with his device in the forest ...same thing ,power manifested between grounds.
HOWEVER ,Nothing like Clarence is seeing...120 V on his Ground/neutral .
he's reading a phase off his neutral bar ??
however however...
he says no connection whatsoever to that Neutral ??????????
or does he not consider that neutral connection a mains connection??
needs some addressing, if correct that reading is BAD
we shall see?
@Grum
just to be clear if I do go forward [once a few questions are answered] I will be
posting the replication results/progress.. at all the forums .
Chet K
Dear Chet.
Here in the UK we have the earth bonded to the neutral connection. In fact most modern single phase underground services are of " Concentric " construction, the outer sheath being both Neutral and Earth as one conductor and a central Live conductor.
Being rural, my place is served by overhead supply and has what is termed as PME, Protective Multiple Earthing which ensures an earth bond right back to the Pole Transformer.
To answer your question, yes I would expect to see 220 V, why not ? It's just like any source of electrical power be it a Generator or Inverter, it has mains voltage, it will want to find a lower potential. If you look at the schematic part of his Live output hits the load and then goes to the ground rods. It might suggest there is quite a high ground resistance between his device and the service providers earth ?
I think the only way that we could be certain about the device is a long run at full load test. Matt's picture shows an 8 Kw battery, that could easily cope for quite a while !! ;)
Cheers Grum.
Grum
.
I see its a moot point if he's not touching his panel box or neutral as verified in schematic,
I see those two big wires coming onto the table are from his ground array not house ground or neutral [Matts post 5 above] .
apologies...
Chet
OK so he has connected one of the inverter outputs to ground to make a neutral. And....
It looks to me as though the current loop is from one side of the inverter (active) through the load to the ground and the other inverter power wire made neutral which is attached to ground also.
If that self runs I'll eat my hat.
..
Quote from: Farmhand on 2015.04.04, 00:04:36
OK so he has connected one of the inverter outputs to ground to make a neutral. And....
It looks to me as though the current loop is from one side of the inverter (active) through the load to the ground and the other inverter power wire made neutral which is attached to ground also.
If that self runs I'll eat my hat.
..
Good day Farmhand
I'll second that emotion........ with one further observation:
The Primaries and Secondaries on BOTH toroids are connected to *L*..... being a Single Phase inverter, there is only one Line (phase), the *SAME* Line on both Toroids.
So, the Captor pick up coil is coupled inductively to *Line* and then directly to *Ground*..................
I don't see any capacitors and/or resonant features on the Captor pick up loop.
It looks to me as if the Inverter Neutral is connected to the load thru his *Ground* rod system. Which is probably why he needs 60 some ground rods to complete the circuit.
I don't see the mechanism at play here, maybe I am missing something :D
take care, peace
lost_bro
Don't try to claim OU on Tesla's behalf that he did not claim. I have yet to see anything from Tesla that claims more energy out than he caused to be input for any of his "transmission systems". In fact I have seen him state the efficiencies as under unity. "Nickola Tesla on his Work with Alternating Currents".
If this setup is self running it's nothing to do with Tesla.
And the system still contains a battery. With a Lead acid battery in the system in - out measurements need to be made because a lead acid battery is capable of maintaining voltage while decreasing it's charge for a period at least.
I have shown a lead acid battery supplying a couple of amps or so to an inverter and the battery voltage at first drops then rises before settling into a very slow drop in voltage as compared to the amount of charge removed.
Maybe if a 5 or 7 amp hour 12 volt battery was used the result might look different. Or if the load was several hundred Watts.
..
Looks like the same principle as for Игорь Соколовский transformer C.C
I was intrigued by Ramsets interest and so have read the last 20 pages or so of the OU thread . I love Clarence's focus and intention, without getting involved in the does it,doesn't it debate and the endless 'measurists' injections, just a few thoughts on why it may.
It may not be well known but in the early days of telegraph given choices of route the ground was dowsed for the better route,
The engineers had discovered that working this way the systems could sometimes run using no 'real power' by that phrase I don't mean It used 'no power' but rather no power that is apparent to us (at the moment) It is if you like in a different dimension. Simple standard electric theory takes us this far let me introduce some of you to .. real power divided by apparent power which electricians know as 'power factor' and which they attempt to keep at unity. ( far away from this natural entity)
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_11/2.html (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_11/2.html)
The two vector extremes 90 deg leading and 90 deg lagging you who are electronically based know as resonance series and parallel respectively. You Radio gentlemen will know the same thing as SWR of unity and SWR of infinity respectively, SWR unity you quest every time you tune to an antenna .
SWR infinity you never go near ... 'There be dragons'
This alternative resonance was the foundation of Tesla's Wireless system , read his court records he states over and over again "This is not an electromagnetic system" Still
To try and keep as simple as I may, that which I seem to comprehend, please consider the front end of this crystal set
(http://www.circuitdiagram.org/images/crystal-radio-circuit-schematic-diagram.gif)
At a resonant frequency maximum voltage is developed across the parallel circuit if the circuit were 'perfect' (Infinite Q) no current would flow what so ever .
here and now we consider the extreme 'other end' of the spectrum .. Series resonance , Huge current and very little voltage still .. before I go much further this is not current in the normal meaning of the word It is known by many AKAs 'reactive current' is its present text book term. In ye oldie text books and certainly by Edward Leedskalnin the term ' Magnetic current' is used. In the ground its sometimes referred to as telluric current . .. There are many other names.
When being trained as an electrician I was taught reactive power and current can do no useful work .... well that might be so .. unless that is you consider charging batteries or heat useful !
Lord Voldemort ...( he who's name must not be spoken) says this on the subject
"After my 35 years of experiments with the term "free energy" and "over unity machines". This is what it turns out to be "Reactive power" and that's it".
On this web page
http://merlib.org/node/5508 (http://merlib.org/node/5508)
It would be my inclination to ask Clarence to expand on (as far as he may) his use of the fractal Quartz. Also buried heavily sulphated (fractal) batteries.
The nay Sayers and dis -info guys will obviously do all they can to prevent development of this (or any other viable) system for that matter . The arguments ? For the most part exactly the same as they were 100 years ago with Moray ..a/ your stealing power from the grid , In fact as I recall Moray had to travel miles from any power station or power lines and operate deep in a valley away from any radio station in order to silence tptb and their naysayer agents b/ earth trips and e'lectric.. ohhh its dangerous, of course it is ! So's crossing the road if you don't take precautions and do it right. So if your a nitwit don't play with this ! (or cross the road for that matter)
It does bring up the question for me... who owns telluric current ? The Russian guys on OU for all their abrasive 'old man' talk and not so veiled threats were probably right tptb will probably kill and suppress a lot more folks,... then tax the rods.
I happen to live in a country where for years tptb managed to tax day light. We had to smash the windows out of our homes and brick them up for inspection. In fact theres quite a lot still bricked up.
Whilst I don't appreciate the rudeness of the Russian I can see how he might confuse relating to a decent American individual with the actions of the corporation run state machinery, and government .
kind regards Duncan
Farmhand: Tesla's radiant energy patent is technically an ou device.
It delivers more energy out than in.
Simple.
Prove me wrong.
Stop knocking Tesla and making wrong statements.
greetings Mr King very nice to talk with you again, It is clear I regard farmhand as being 'opposition' I have made no bones about that in the past. still he has replicated much of Tesla's work and some of his coils are quite magnificent! farmhand also has an extensive Tesla library and is obviously erudite on the subject. He has shared some of it. which was kind
It is this term 'over unity' (and I know I use it myself sometimes) It causes dis - harmony It doesn't really exist, even though it figures even in the name of our forum OUR by comparison the term COP>1 seems a lot more pedestrian but I'm sure you know as well as I do, it really is the right description, Of course we all know what you mean, and it may seem like splitting hairs, but much as I hate to write it, farmhand is quite right Tesla never did claim 'over unity' however COP>1 that's a very different thing, I'm sure were you to write 'technically a cop >1 device' honour would be satisfied. It is the job of opposition to prevaricate and delay progress , introduce red herrings, measurists are also not a big help with this stuff ... where would you or they measure this for instance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F3ovb2kZ9Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F3ovb2kZ9Q)
kind regards Duncan
Farmhand said:
QuoteI have shown a lead acid battery supplying a couple of amps or so to an inverter and the battery voltage at first drops then rises before settling into a very slow drop in voltage as compared to the amount of charge removed.
And this is common sense by all who accurately observe and
measure battery discharge and plot the curves.. It is due to several factors, one of which is the warming up of the electrolyte, speedup of the chemical process.
Most newbs or otherwise uninitiated are fooled by this, claiming a battery charging effect by getting only to the rise in voltage portion of the discharge curve.
Those that eschew accurate measurement should take their "phlogiston" theories back into the age in which they belong.
For someone that attacks measurement and those who make them, Clarence has at least three power measuring Kill A Watt meters on the setup. Why does he not publish the data from those power meters? oh, that would make him a "measurementalist"... then why have the power meters?
QuoteIt is the job of opposition to prevaricate and delay progress , introduce red herrings, measurists are also not a big help with this stuff ... where would you or they measure this for instance
A rather revealing statement from Duncan. Never mind measurement, it gets in the way??? I think it is the other way around, the blind believers, talkers and posers without proof or measurement "prevaricate and delay progress , introduce red herrings".
Well Duncan, I guess I might be included in your group called "opposition".
@ All
IMO measurement must rule the day ,I have to admit I got wires crossed at the Clarence thread.
His mentions of running household appliances and then adding more rods for bigger loads??
during those tests his charger was attached to the mains ....and that would suggest a possible groundloop .
Groundloops have wasted tons of time here.
in fact as TinMan pointed out ,so far he has run a light bulb, completely off Grid.
I do hope Clarence will continue to share his findings .
Chet
Quote from: Aking.21 on 2015.04.04, 10:30:20
Farmhand: Tesla's radiant energy patent is technically an ou device.
It delivers more energy out than in.
Simple.
Prove me wrong.
Stop knocking Tesla and making wrong statements.
It does not work like that Mr King, it is your statement that is in error, and not Farmhand's.
I suggest you build Tesla's radiant energy device, demonstrate it's OU capability beyond any reasonable doubt, offer the device for third party replication and verification and then when vindicated.. make your statement.
Quote from: ION on 2015.04.04, 12:34:50
A rather revealing statement from Duncan. Nevermind measurement, it gets in the way??? I think it is the other way around, the blind believers, talkers and posers without proof or measurement "prevaricate and delay progress , introduce red herrings".
Well Duncan, I guess I might be included in your group called "opposition".
It seems that the "opposition" group is the place where all sane experimenters and researchers reside, as such count me in! Don't bother with measurements to find OU ? What a complete load of bollocks!
Quote from: Duncan on 2014.01.16, 09:06:16
The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane." Tesla
All,
I see there is some confusion regarding the schematic for Clarence's design. Attached is a corrected schematic by Clarence and also a confirmed redraw by Void. This is taken from page 72 on the OU forum.
partzman
Quote from: partzman on 2015.04.04, 13:25:30
All,
I see there is some confusion regarding the schematic for Clarence's design. Attached is a corrected schematic by Clarence and also a confirmed redraw by Void. This is taken from page 72 on the OU forum.
partzman
Good day All;
Between the two schematics, the *only* functional difference is the phase of the Captor pick up coil. It has been flipped over.......
Besides that, it is electrically the *same* drawing. (just stating the obvious) ;)
take care, peace
lost_bro
You choose to miss the point Ion and evolvingape but if you wish to regard your bias as opposition , so be it.
With equipment such as this we enter uncharted waters, It is self evident that folks (like Clarance) push forward by feel instinct and determination I think thats a huge credit to the man.
Its probable that he like so many thousand others before will be brought low, That is too, a crying shame.
There is nothing 'revealing' as pointed out measurment won't work,after all how do you measure something that by definition has absolutly 'no real power In the present dogma ?
Clarence tells us he's off grid , driving any equipment which he chooses in a closed loop, that being so measurement becomes superfluous.
If folks wish to replicate Clarence's work IMHO they also need to get into his 'mindset'. His attitude to measurist's is very clear, a blind man on a galloping horse couldn't miss It.
of course its very different to what we'd wish to achieve here, thats something simple and easily replicable.
I still think Clarance and what he has acomplished will be vindicated (if he's not silenced) as for 'bollocks' I can't help but wonder if they are what are actually keeping some peoples ears apart!
kind regards Duncan
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.04, 15:24:10
You choose to miss the point Ion and evolvingape but if you wish to regard your bias as opposition , so be it.
No point missed, if there is a point missed please point it out!
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.04, 15:24:10
There is nothing 'revealing' as pointed out measurment won't work,after all how do you measure something that by definition has absolutly 'no real power In the present dogma ?
No real Power In ? Listen to yourself.. Just because you cannot identify what the Power In is does not mean it is not there, or that it is not definable.
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.04, 15:24:10
Clarence tells us he's off grid , driving any equipment which he chooses in a closed loop, that being so measurement becomes superfluous.
Clarence "tells us" being the key point, when Clarence "proves it" and makes the technology available for replicators to prove it, let us know.
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.04, 15:24:10
If folks wish to replicate Clarence's work IMHO they also need to get into his 'mindset'.
No thanks, delusion has no place in honest research.
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.04, 15:24:10
I still think Clarance and what he has acomplished will be vindicated (if he's not silenced) as for 'bollocks' I can't help but wonder if they are what are actually keeping some peoples ears apart!
Maybe Clarence will be vindicated one day, and maybe not. It would be very helpful if all necessary data and a working prototype were provided to skilled "measurist's" for a qualified analysis to be done, until then it is "Clarence tells us"..
Bollocks keep ears apart ? Now that's news! If you recall it was not so long ago you were asked by Tinman to actually prove your many OU claims, he was there with the kit and the skills to actually build any one of your many claimed OU devices.. you failed to do so and shut up real quick.. so what's keeping your ears apart to spin the same bollock's on a new day eh!
Dear All.
This thread seems destined to crash and burn, like most of my other ones !! ;D Nice to see the different camps ( train of thought ) but we are digressing. I shall remain on the fence with this one as I posted earlier on, ARIOVALDO's device did not work in the USA but worked in Brazil !! ;)
Dear evolvingape.
The Tesla radiant energy receiver that Mr King was referring to has been brought into the 20 th century, The Jes Ascanius' Version of Nikola Tesla's Aerial System is a well proven and practical device capable of re charging Mobile phone batteries ( Cell Phone ) perhaps not really useful as a whole home energy system but it's a start. Nearly as cheap as a Solar panel !! ;)
Both Mr King and I have built these devices, my own device featured a 75 foot long aerial and a 3 foot Copper earth rod ( utility separated ) and used to power LED's. My own findings were that the output was very cyclic in nature. The maximum voltage attained was 6 V DC at around 10.30 AM every day, tapering off to 2 V DC during the night. I monitored this for several weeks before moving on to other futile endeavours !! :)
Cheers Grum.
Re Tesla's radiant energy patent:
Use up to a meter square tin foil, shiny surface outwards. Link to Ascanius's 4 cap 4 diode collector system.
COP infinity.
Look at Tesla's patent carefully and see how you can use modern tools. ;) That's all I'm prepared to say.
Been there done that got the T shirt.
I don't do idle pub talk.
Let those who have ears to hear, hear.
Quote from: Aking.21 on 2015.04.04, 19:53:17
Re Tesla's radiant energy patent:
COP infinity.
You correct your error without having acknowledged you made it.
Quote from: Aking.21 on 2015.04.04, 19:53:17
I don't do idle pub talk.
Let those who have ears to hear, hear.
Nobody is disputing, as far as I can tell, that Tesla's radiant energy receiver is a COP>1 device, many are arguing that is not an overunity device. The use of the term overunity in a COP (coefficient of performance) context is meaningless (as is COP infinity itself), which you have acknowledged indirectly by correcting it. Do not deflect from the issue by invoking "idle pub talk", which I find personally insulting by the way, as I am a builder as you well know. If you have been there and got the Tshirt then give something back and teach the kids with solid science and indisputable demonstrations. Do not confuse OU and COP, as OU has become a cult rivalling Scientology without the bank balance or the Top Gun, while maintaining similar levels of credibility. COP indirectly acknowledges the thermodynamic underpinning of a lot of what we do and so is valuable even if not understood correctly most of the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance
There is an Apples and Oranges thememe going on here and it is a topic we shall shortly cover.. are you ready AC ?
Quote from: partzman on 2015.04.04, 13:25:30
All,
I see there is some confusion regarding the schematic for Clarence's design. Attached is a corrected schematic by Clarence and also a confirmed redraw by Void. This is taken from page 72 on the OU forum.
partzman
Drawing 2 is misleading,as plug one and two will be parallel plugs in the inverter. I have drawn in the parallel conections below,so all those sepperate wires shown that are conected to the two sepperate plugs are actually one in the same.
Below i have removed(what i call)the captor usless loop transformer. As you can see,there is nothing more than a looped system here,where as the ground rods are acting like resistors on the neutral side of the circuit. Clarence thinks he has something wonderful going on when he add's ground rods to each side of the neutral leg-as he is able to get more power to the load,when in fact,he is only reducing the resistance in the neutral leg of the circuit by adding more ground rods.
Now lets have a look at the captor usless loop transformer O0
I really dont think this even needs a description of what you have here,but if you think it is something fantastic,then post your comments on it.
Nice analysis Tinman, your circuit simplification has removed all obfuscation. O0
If Clarence actually thought he had some power coming from the ground, why not just start with a small lamp bulb hooked between the center rods and the outer banks without all the looping stuff. That should be measurable by brightness alone since he dislikes precision measurement.
If there is nothing to be noted with a small lamp bulb, then of course it must be the magic of the "Captor Coil" circulating and capturing all those elusive earth captons. C.C
With his present setup he has unwittingly created the world largest earthworm shocker. Or is it also the largest resistor in history.
With all those worms reluctantly forced to the surface, might be time to go fishing.
What i see on the OU thread,i see happening here. Now there are those that are(once again)trying to put Tesla's name on this system >:(. It is always the same when systems like this come out-->it's related to tesla's work. NO IT'S NOT.
Tesla never had or made claim to any OU system-->the term OU is only used in situations where the extra energy coming into a system is from a yet !unknown! source. Once that source is known,you have two outcome's.
1-the unknown source turns out to be man made(eg,radio waves)which = no free lunch.
Or 2- the source turns out to be provided by nature(eg,sun light,temperature changes) which means a !free! energy source.
The only load Clarence has driven so far is a light bulb-->and that is when his system was grid tied.
He has (so far) only run the system in loop mode separate from the grid for 2 1/2 hours with no load and recorded that the battery voltage remained fairly steady-->this is the extent of his testing so far. His statement about running loads of household appliances is only what he thinks he will be able to do once more ground rods are in place-->he has NOT run any loads on his system since it has been disconnected from the grid.
Seeing battery voltages remain at a steady or slightly increased voltage when driving very lite loads is nothing out of the ordinary-->even more so with LA or SLA batteries. Even a small temperature rise will see a voltage climb in a SLA battery.\
For those that think this is rubbish,here is a small and simple test for you to try. Take a SLA,place your volt meter on it,and warm it up by either hitting it with a hair dryer for a while,or simply place it in the sun-->you will see the voltage rise.
Seeing a voltage rise in a battery has nothing to do with it's energy capacity.
Here is what you need to see in order to determined wether or not power is being drained from your battery-->and it hasn't failed me yet.
If you disconnect the device from your battery,and the battery voltage rises,then more power was being drawn from your battery than was being returned.If you disconnect the device from your battery,and the battery voltage fall's,then more power was being delivered to your battery than was being consumed. If i see this happen,then i look further into what may be happening within the system.
Quote from: Matt Watts on 2015.04.04, 01:03:25
Since you'll get sick anyway doing that, would you please eat Russ Gries' hat instead. ;D
I see one and only one possible mechanism for operation. Consider this patent:
http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-645,576-transmission-of-energy
We've all seen it a thousand times. Now add to it the fact that Mr. Tesla exclaimed repeatedly his system did not use Hertzian electromagnetic waves.
If we take Mr. Tesla's system; tie the antennas together, we mostly have what Clarence describes. So suppose propagation between the antennas (which are tied together) happens at a different velocity than the two ground connections. Could you possibly transmit energy to load from source with half the energy packet delayed from it's partner? If you can, then all that is needed is to have the proper phase adjustment. You have two polarities, a resonant frequency, a delay on one polarity and no delay on the other. So the energy packet arrives with positive polarity at time X and the negative polarity at time X - (N cycles). The receiver side can't tell the difference, it sees the two polarities completely normal. On the transmitter side, it can't feel the load because one polarity is always offset by one or more cycles. Basically, once the filament in the light bulb has lit up, you can't go back and say, hey you cheated, that's an old positive paired with a new negative.
I will add, if you tie grounds together and keep the antennas separate, then you have a similar explanation for the Akula devices.
Anyway, if I was to make a science fiction movie and try to describe a plausible explanation for some far-out phenomena, this is how I would do it.
For all those stuck on the Tesla comment, I was commenting on the bold part of Matt's post. He mentions "antenna's", "two of them", obviously he is referring to the transmission systems.
I stated quite rightly that Tesla has never claimed any extra energy out than what he caused to be input for any of his
transmission systems.
The "Radiant energy receiver" is a free energy collection device. Call that OU if you want. But the transmissions systems were not energy making devices, they were energy transmission devices/power transmission devices, he input all the power that was transmitted and the losses, as the system was stated by Tesla to be under unity.
Please get over that, and do some reading and research of Tesla's own words and don't make claims on his behalf that he did not ever make. It's not difficult to do.
..
Quote from: Aking.21 on 2015.04.04, 10:30:20
Farmhand: Tesla's radiant energy patent is technically an ou device.
It delivers more energy out than in.
Simple.
Prove me wrong.
Stop knocking Tesla and making wrong statements.
So A.King stop misreading and misunderstanding and misrepresenting my posts. It's not me knocking Tesla it's all the people making claims on his behalf that he did not make. It makes the ignorant think everything Tesla made was OU. It does no worldly good to do that and it misrepresents Tesla's legacy.
A radiant energy collector is not much different to a solar panel and was likely the genesis of the thinking that led to the PV cell. If a Radiant energy receiver is OU then so is a solar panel.
Thank you.
Quote from: Farmhand on 2015.04.05, 02:38:55
So A.King stop misreading and misunderstanding and misrepresenting my posts. It's not me knocking Tesla it's all the people making claims on his behalf that he did not make. It makes the ignorant think everything Tesla made was OU. It does no worldly good to do that and it misrepresents Tesla's legacy.
A radiant energy collector is not much different to a solar panel and was likely the genesis of the thinking that led to the PV cell. If a Radiant energy receiver is OU then so is a solar panel.
Thank you.
Indeed Farmhand.
Dose the word radiant energy not compute with some people?.
Radiant energy is energy radiated from a source-->just like radio waves,sound waves,heat-->all originate from a source.
There is no OU period. OU is a word used by those that do not understand or know of the source.
How many times have we seen Tesla's name plasted all over these so called radiant energy recievers. This system being looked at here has NOTHING to do with tesla at all-->NOTHING,and how his name was even placed apon this system is beyond me.
The ground rods are nothing more than resistors,and the earth is the conductive path. Why is it so hard to understand that the more ground rods Clarence places within the neutral side of the circuit,the lower the resistance becomes in that path,and the more power is delivered to the load. And what is with that wacked out captop loop transformer palava ???
I will try to answer your questions evolvingape as best I may if only for the benefit of others who do read the links and information! it is however easier for me to reverse the order a little as one question easily answers another, incidentally I really don't mind pub talk, or heated exchange ,much has been learnt in convivial surroundings and sometimes in a squabble, I do know which I prefer.
It is clear to me you have not read or digested the information contained in the links. To remind you your diatribe runs so ..
No real Power In ? Listen to yourself.. Just because you cannot identify what the Power In is does not mean it is not there, or that it is not definable.
This is not my definition it is from standard text from simple school books as is clearly pointed out if you had bothered to actually read the information ergo .. you missed the point neither did I suggest it was not 'definable' I did suggest it was not directly measurable.
Power factor = True power/apparent power . The very definition of 'apparent power' to wit from the dictionary ...
1. The power flow has two components - one component flows steadily from source to load and can perform work at the load, the other portion, known as "reactive power", is due to the delay between voltage and current and cannot do useful work at the load.
.....It can't directly operate a meter then .. for instance. ergo Cannot be measured at all unless by comparison in an accepted mathematical dimension.. however there is a very strong suggestion that this current can and does charge batteries which is of course another point you opted to miss.
That telluric current is circulating in KAr in the ground is well documented there are magnetic current maps available
that utilities of every description also make free use of the ground as part of their return path is usual however they have no jurisdiction over natural magnetic current .. as far as I know.
Regardless if you guys are in doubt and I think here of Chet and 'measurement' ask Clarence (nicely) to throw the main switch for a while and so isolate any possibility of 'parallel paths' .
As for the present debate 'Its reading hundreds of amps but the cable doesn't blow being observed ... amps do not blow cables or fuses for that matter (regardless of what it says on the fuse), nor does power! energy does , That energy must consist of Real power x time, That real power must be made up of AMPS in phase not AMPS reactive. There may be hundreds of reactive amps circulating but no real power transfer so no energy, no heat , no way to blow a fuse (or a cable) just for the record gents I don't mind this merry banter that Grumage calls 'burn and flame' but some attempt to get even the gist of what's being written even if you can't get the point would be much appreciated
before measurists start wanting to measure things that we have no instruments for (yet).
Also a point you elected to miss !
Kind regards Duncan
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.05, 08:36:50
before measurists start wanting to measure things that we have no instruments for (yet).
Also a point you elected to miss !
Kind regards Duncan
Anything can be measured-->there is no fairy dust power here.
No power exist within any device man has that cannot be measured,be it reactive,active,pasive or what ever. If you know of some sort of power that we cant measure,then please do tell.
Tinman .. even in the first post I asked the question where is the energy that DJ lights LEDs (for instance) measured ? The electrical professor the doctor or his student could not do it . Its my guess you wouldn't have much hope either! (no dis-respect intended) further - at no stage do I mention fairy dust - why do you? ... I do mention reactive power .. which has been recorded charging batteries - that's also in the links, which I doubt you read, if you have a method of directly measuring KvAr doing this 'useful work' do put it in print .. It certainly wasn't available last time I looked! and certainly Houdini and Bearden haven't found a method to measure it (directly) although of course he does define what it is, and its mathematical construct and does not babble about 'fairy dust' kind regards Duncan
Well
we do have an option here , To actually see if it can be measured, "the Dini" thing.
I will see if this can be experimented with here or measured ,I know we have a volunteer to assist
in a proper measurement of "The Dini "claim.and I know we have a successful replication of "the Dini" effect ..
we shall see if the twain can meet....
respectfully
Chet
Hi Chet the centre section of this circuit has been nagging something at the back of my mind , similar to ... not quite the same, (if you know the feeling) and although I have never tried the thing and so make no claims ..(in fact I guess I shouldn't really post it here as its a different machine but that accepted) Its those transformers ...
It came to me that this is what was nagging so I put it here because (I at least) see resemblance
(http://www.next.gr/uploads/26/Hendershot-schematic-fig1-580x418.jpg)
If its ringing bells .. Its supposed to be Hendershot
Dear All.
So, we have moved from Clarence to Tesla and then to " He who shall remain nameless " !! Who's next on the list ? Well Duncan beat me to it !! ;D Hendershot !! NEXT PLEASE ??
What has become rather apparent is the term " OU " It is our forum's Logo. For me, unity means 100 %, a whole, the full Monty !! It can't be added to. Perhaps a good thing would be to have a dedicated thread to discuss this issue? What do you members think ?
With regard to the origin of this thread, we shall just have to wait and see what Clarence get's around to posting on OU.com.
Cheers Grum.
You are really promulgating a lot of misconceptions in this post.
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.05, 08:36:50
I will try to answer your questions evolvingape as best I may if only for the benefit of others who do read the links and information! it is however easier for me to reverse the order a little as one question easily answers another, incidentally I really don't mind pub talk, or heated exchange ,much has been learnt in convivial surroundings and sometimes in a squabble, I do know which I prefer.
It is clear to me you have not read or digested the information contained in the links. To remind you your diatribe runs so ..
No real Power In ? Listen to yourself.. Just because you cannot identify what the Power In is does not mean it is not there, or that it is not definable.
This is not my definition it is from standard text from simple school books as is clearly pointed out if you had bothered to actually read the information ergo .. you missed the point neither did I suggest it was not 'definable' I did suggest it was not directly measurable.
Power factor = True power/apparent power . The very definition of 'apparent power' to wit from the dictionary ...
1. The power flow has two components - one component flows steadily from source to load and can perform work at the load, the other portion, known as "reactive power", is due to the delay between voltage and current and cannot do useful work at the load.
.....It can't directly operate a meter then .. for instance. ergo Cannot be measured at all unless by comparison in an accepted mathematical dimension.. however there is a very strong suggestion that this current can and does charge batteries which is of course another point you opted to miss.
Wrong, and wrong. It's easy to generate and measure reactive power. "Cannot do useful work at the load" and "Can and does charge batteries" ... these two statements are contradictory. Reactive power cannot charge batteries... however it's easy to "siphon off" real power from a reactive power store, and charge batteries with that, and it can look like you aren't drawing your power from the reactive store (because it is being replaced as fast as you are drawing it off). But if you try to draw off real power faster than it is being replaced... you will see your reactive power collapse.
Quote
That telluric current is circulating in KAr in the ground is well documented there are magnetic current maps available
And this has nothing to do with the single-wire ground return power system in use in Brazil.
Quote
that utilities of every description also make free use of the ground as part of their return path is usual however they have no jurisdiction over natural magnetic current .. as far as I know.
Regardless if you guys are in doubt and I think here of Chet and 'measurement' ask Clarence (nicely) to throw the main switch for a while and so isolate any possibility of 'parallel paths' .
As for the present debate 'Its reading hundreds of amps but the cable doesn't blow being observed ... amps do not blow cables or fuses for that matter (regardless of what it says on the fuse), nor does power! energy does ,
Wrong again. What blows fuses or melts wires is _dissipating power_ . You can take a given number of Joules of energy and send it slowly through a conductor (low power level) or send it very rapidly (high power level). In the first case not much happens, in the second case you get heating and melting and blowing fuses. It is not the amount of energy, but how fast it is applied to the conductor: that is, the Power level that determines heating, blowing fuses, melting, etc. Watts = Joules per second. Joules don't blow fuses, high currents through resistances produce heat (watts of dissipated power) which result in melting or blown fuses. Fewer Joules per second (Watts) = less heating.
QuoteThat energy must consist of Real power x time, That real power must be made up of AMPS in phase not AMPS reactive. There may be hundreds of reactive amps circulating but no real power transfer so no energy, no heat , no way to blow a fuse (or a cable)
That much is approximately correct, except that power is not made up just of AMPS and the key word is "transfer". The current of AMPS still has electromagnetic effects even in a reactive power system and that's what makes it measurable and extractable.
Quotejust for the record gents I don't mind this merry banter that Grumage calls 'burn and flame' but some attempt to get even the gist of what's being written even if you can't get the point would be much appreciated
before measurists start wanting to measure things that we have no instruments for (yet).
Also a point you elected to miss !
Kind regards Duncan
You may want to review my demonstrations of high levels of Reactive Power that I did in the MicroQEG playlist on YT. I demonstrate how a high level of reactive power can occur in the primary of an air-core transformer and be siphoned off by the secondary to perform useful work without collapsing the resonating reactive power. The current of many amperes in the reactive power has profound electromagnetic effects that are easily directly detected and in fact provide the means for power transfer and conversion to real power. The "power" of reactive power may not be "real" but the electromagnetic effect of the _current_ certainly is real and provides the means for extracting and converting the reactive power into real, usable, dissipatable power.
had to write Voldemort Grum Bedini is Taboo on this hallowed turf! as for Tesla its hard to name anything at all from the outset of poly phase to wireless, magnetics and all things betwixt and between that isn't touched by that mans hand !
Quote from: Chet K on 2015.04.05, 12:43:56
Well
we do have an option here , To actually see if it can be measured, "the Dini" thing.
I will see if this can be experimented with here or measured ,I know we have a volunteer to assist
in a proper measurement of "The Dini "claim.and I know we have a successful replication of "the Dini" effect ..
we shall see if the twain can meet....
respectfully
Chet
What are you talking about, exactly? What is "the Dini" effect or claim?
A joule is a unite of energy (not power) it is made up of two components power and time ! I couldn't really care less that you have opted to use joules, a joule by its very definition = 1 watt/second just as energy at you electric meter is KW/Hours .. you split hairs
dissipated power is also energy what exactly do you think an electric meter is measuring ?
I wrote "it takes energy to blow a fuse I made no mention of how much , or for how long if you don't believe it requires the expenditure of power in a period of time WHICH IS ENERGY it is quite pointless you trying to understand anything much electrical. I wonder have you considered origami?
As for generating magnetic current I at no stage indicated that was difficult ! Regarding you high lighting this .. with wrong (in your opinion)
1. The power flow has two components - one component flows steadily from source to load and can perform work at the load, the other portion, known as "reactive power", is due to the delay between voltage and current and cannot do useful work at the load.
As I pointed out its a dictionary description (also repeated in Hughes classical electrical engineering) and I'm sure he well knows it takes energy to blow a fuse (and usually quite a lot pdq) and so until you sort your basic units out and produce a better guru I think I'll stick with Prof Hughes.
Next you decide to demonstrate that not only have you not bothered to read the thread properly before comment you certainly haven't bothered with the link that this pertains to and the strong suggestion
.....It can't directly operate a meter then .. for instance. ergo Cannot be measured at all unless by comparison in an accepted mathematical dimension.. however there is a very strong suggestion that this current can and does charge batteries which is of course another point you opted to miss
Of course its a bloody contradiction its supposed to be very loud and clear !!a blind man on a galloping horse shouldn't be able to miss it ... guess what you managed to! perhaps I should have wrote it large and under scored it please go back and open the Lord Voldemore link and it should become obvious even to one being as wilfully obtuse as you .
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.05, 11:04:58
Tinman .. even in the first post I asked the question where is the energy that DJ lights LEDs (for instance) measured ? The electrical professor the doctor or his student could not do it . Its my guess you wouldn't have much hope either! (no dis-respect intended) further - at no stage do I mention fairy dust - why do you? ... I do mention reactive power .. which has been recorded charging batteries - that's also in the links, which I doubt you read, if you have a method of directly measuring KvAr doing this 'useful work' do put it in print .. It certainly wasn't available last time I looked! and certainly kind regards Duncan
Ah man,i spent a sh*t load of time replying to this post,and it didnt go through-->some one must have been posting at the same time. Anyway,i looked at your first post Duncan,and dont see what you are refering to in regards to-->even in the first post I asked the question where is the energy that DJ lights LEDs (for instance) measured ?
Who is DJ,and whats so hard about measureing power to LED's?. Can you point me in the direction of this !cant be measured! power consumption of LED's?,and let me have a crack at it.
QuoteHoudini and Bearden haven't found a method to measure it (directly) although of course he does define what it is, and its mathematical construct and does not babble about 'fairy dust'
Hudini and bearden cant even measure there own pulse systems,little lone anything else. They are salesmen,just like Arron the rookie,and that Linderman peanut.Lots of books full of secret's,but not one device to back up there bullsh*t.
Anyway-about that DJ LED's thing-->post a link to this subject you speak of if you could please.
Cheers
Hi Tinman. It was an off the cuff remark. really because I'm getting a bit hissy with measurist's who can't read , don't know basic units and don't need books or links because they of course know it all!. The link was there because a measurist stated anything could be measured ... if the guy himself has any chi (which I strongly doubt) I think I know where one (if not both) of the probes should go. anyway the clip relates to Dynamo Jack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F3ovb2kZ9Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F3ovb2kZ9Q)
Kind regards Duncan
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015.04.05, 14:56:28
What are you talking about, exactly? What is "the Dini" effect or claim?
Dear TinselKoala.
Chet phoned me and asked if I would provide a reply to your question.
"the Dini" refers to " He who shall remain nameless " on this forum !! He has the same initials as that favourite American beverage Jim Beam !! ;)
Many years ago before I got involved with forums I built a B****I Cole window motor based on a claim that a self running motor had been built by a man named Mike. I have attached a screen shot of the saved page from OU.com.
My motor ran continuously on the same single battery for over 3 months. This 7 AH Gel Cell was not a good one to start with, I could never get it to take a full charge, It always read 8.6 V never ever deviated until finally I pulled the plug on the device. I never got a self runner despite hours of tinkering with it. I unfortunately totally scrapped this device for other projects and never took a photograph either, wish I had now !!
Perhaps the strangest thing was that my middle Son's bedroom was above my " playroom " he complained daily about not being able to sleep, it was only after pulling the plug that he was able to sleep properly again !! I also remember on another occasion, this time with an SSG replication. I went into the room with my daughters new fangled Kodak Digital camera to take some stills, photos taken and back to the PC to unload them. Only to find that the memory card had been completely wiped, alas with my daughters recent holiday snaps as well. I was not in good books for a long time after that incident !! :D
Some food for thought there !!
Cheers Grum.
why thank you Grumage that's also enlightened me .. In that case its lord Voldemore .. he who must not be named .. Dini, JB writing here long ago http://merlib.org/ (http://merlib.org/) and stating quite clearly reactive current is the key, which he also says in his video cant be measured sorry about that tin man ... also sorry your long post was all to no avail
kind regards Duncan
There is far more to this that is quickly fitting into place grummage but of course its conjecture, still if you'd like to consider just from your own stance and don't mind a bit 'of drift on your thread' here is some food for you
... please note I write here to you Grumage I've had enough of noisy know it all's who think they are school teachers and actually seem to know the square root of F'all
for the moment .. .
Remember the battery and the work top ? ...Reactive current AKA magnetic current, does it still carry the mark of zorro ?
Battery duff ?... Read crystallised .. a fractal antenna
There is then an element of chance involved in a lord Voldemort machine ! I doubt that is a surprise!
Remember Clarence and what he used ? Quartz ... a fractal construct , (I advised you to enquire) also please regard the work of Thomas Trawoeger with regard to quartz and crystals generally.
Crystals can be cut or conditioned to follow overtones .. also the domain of magnetic current 3 5 6 7 9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yE4d7O17wE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yE4d7O17wE) But of course I try to skip and run before walking , The object I guess is to replicate what Clarance has done .. I simply point out the bits all seem to fit together well.
kind regards Duncan
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.05, 19:14:36
Battery duff ?... Read crystallised .. a fractal antenna
There is then an element of chance involved in a lord Voldemort machine ! I doubt that is a surprise!
Remember Clarence and what he used ? Quartz ... a fractal construct , (I advised you to enquire) also please regard the work of Thomas Trawoeger with regard to quartz and crystals generally.
Crystals can be cut or conditioned to follow overtones .. also the domain of magnetic current 3 5 6 7 9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yE4d7O17wE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yE4d7O17wE) But of course I try to skip and run before walking , The object I guess is to replicate what Clarance has done .. I simply point out the bits all seem to fit together well.
Dear Duncan.
For a moment I had to think about your question !! " Remember the battery and the work top ? ...Reactive current AKA magnetic current, does it still carry the mark of zorro ? "
As we are all aware.... Time is a great healer.... The only mark left in the Granite is now my poor attempt at polishing out the plate matrix of the battery that stood there. It seems the structure has realigned itself ?? This link might help clarify your reference.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2312.msg35812#msg35812
All I know is that where there has stood an electromagnetic item, Microwave oven and my Wife's electric toothbrush there are distinct changes in the Granites crystal structure !! See attached... toothbrush footprint.
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.05, 18:02:37
In that case its lord Voldemore .. he who must not be named .. Dini, JB writing here long ago http://merlib.org/ (http://merlib.org/) and stating quite clearly reactive current is the key, which he also says in his video cant be measured sorry about that tin man ... also sorry your long post was all to no avail
kind regards Duncan
A great example of hudini and his BS. Reactive power can quite easily be measured,and i am at a loss as to why you would think otherwise :o
Further more,that video of electroman you gave me the link to-->are you kidding me C.C. So these so called physicist turn up with nothing more than a $2 wallmart DMM,and there going to measure Mr electro's output lol-->you have got to be kidding me.
This is why so many of these so called free energy devices keep popping up,and run on for month's-->no correct measurements taken,and these people avoid correct measurements like the plague,because they know that there wonder device would soon be debunked.
I have asked you before,and i'll ask again-->show me a device that has a power output that cannot be measured-->you will not.
Well Duncan I have to hand it to you, you have achieved a quite remarkable feat.. You have managed to clearly define those who are sane (the measurist's) and those who are clearly delusional (the OU cultist's). Well done!
I have not encountered such levels of delusion that we find with you since Rosemary Ainslie, a clear case of the Dunning-Kruger effect:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their ineptitude. Conversely, highly skilled individuals tend to underestimate their relative competence, erroneously assuming that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others.This reminds me of the current level of schooling for the majority of our children in the West. Standards are continually lowered year on year so more and more children leave school with amazing grades, believing they are all genius's while in reality their skill sets are poor in comparison to their parents. If the kids of today sat the exams from 40 years ago they would be in for a shock and a rapid return to reality. This might upset them and cause them distress and they must be protected from that at all costs, of course.
I believe you yourself Duncan may be suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect, scoring imaginary "points that you missed" in your mind that have no relation to practical reality. In short your a bullshit merchant, a peddler of crap.
Now, whatever you may think of me personally, I use the scientific method to design new devices. I am quite successful in this regard and have achieved a fully working prototype with off the shelf components that operates precisely in accordance with the known laws of nature. The proof is that the device can be independently replicated and operates the same as the original in accordance with the known laws of physics. I strive to pass on this sound knowledge to the kids so that they may excel by following correct procedure and applying the knowledge they have gained.. in short they will gain wisdom from studying hard and applying that knowledge practically.
So Duncan, I challenge you, please show me a working OU device that produces more work done output than can be accounted for by the user energy input. You cannot!
My challenge should also satisfy Tinman's challenge:
Quote from: TinMan on 2015.04.06, 02:38:22
I have asked you before,and i'll ask again-->show me a device that has a power output that cannot be measured-->you will not.
The Dunning–Kruger things very amusing ;D I particularly liked the bank robber with the lemon juice!
Only in America I would think!
I dont really know what you have built or who's reproduced it but I have just been over and had a quick read of some of your projects and I am quite impressed .
Had I have done that before hand I probably would not have lashed out so , my apologies.
On the other hand your description of fuses and cables blowing was at best ham fisted :-[
You ask if I have ever made a machine that shows cop>1 yes I have had the good fortune to do so. alas so far there's always an element of chance involved which is frustrating still if you have a system, and you know it works and other people can replicate with ease well you are indeed blessed. I hope you broadcast it far and wide.
In the mean time it is this thread of Grummages I have an interest in, what I have built in the past , or what I may build in the future does not pertain, or at least only in so much as it could explain how this system may be working and if you read my first post it does say MAY In short I have come onto this thread because I wish to engage in the investigation, design, improvement and eventual implementation of this design.
I am aware Clarence .. at this stage, has opted to keep away from measurements, perhaps for his own safety, perhaps to avoid the tirade of accusation that follows a claim of COP>1 and yes it is possible the thing doesn't work as advertised. I think it does work and respect and understand the mans right to finish his machine before being subjected to a barrage of tests !
That is the general run of things after all Idea > debate > principles of operation > build > test > measurements and performance data .
As far as this thread goes (and many others) well there's nothing built yet .. Is there ??
what the hell is there to measure ? Yet we've already got a flock of measurist's oh joy!
That's quickly followed with a load of 'what I've built is better than what you've built' Is it ? So what ? Go bask in Lemon juice!
just so we might understand one another .. I have not joined this thread to discuss measurements (at least not until something's ready to be measured) I have not joined the thread to play 'I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours' ... I did not join the thread to exhibit anything I've built in the past, nor did I join the thread to become involved in any challenge nor this flame and burn business which has already been pointed out is starting to become inevitable.
The thread is specific to this set up of Clarence's and a replication is being considered. before a replication can be attempted some idea of how and why it operates is required . There are things here in common with other systems that I have built and experimented with, hence my interest in joining a group who also would like to investigate it .
On the other hand I don't particularly wish to start explaining that a watt/sec is a joule and it requires energy to blow a fuse to people who should know better. alas
I did have an email from another member suggesting its quite pointless posting on this forum anymore, It might be right and that would be a shame.
Kind regards Duncan
.
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.06, 14:52:20
Kind regards Duncan
.
You talk the talk Duncan,but you cant walk the walk.E.G
QuoteYou ask if I have ever made a machine that shows cop>1 yes I have had the good fortune to do so.
We have been down this path before with you,and you failed to deliver. This would seem to be the case again-->is there any point in asking if we could see this cop>1 machine?. C.C
QuoteI received an email from another member suggesting its quite pointless posting on this forum anymore, It might be right and that would be a shame.
Only those that refuse to accept accurate measuring on devices would say a thing like that. There use to be a guy called exnihiloest,and he runs rings around most of us when it comes to straight talk about measurements-->you would have loved him,he was a hoot. We had our differences,but now i fully understand what he was about,and i have a new found respect for him. In fact,i often wish he would return. O0
This forum has more(you could say) brains than any other forum around. The combined knowledge here is second to none.Some of the guys here even leave MarkE over at OU behind,and i had the fortune to be one of them not so long ago in regards to how my cool joule circuit was able to run without inductive coupling between the primary and secondary coil. Now how was it that a mechanic could get one up on one of the top guys on OU?,well i have good teachers here,and in this case it was ION that nailed it. Im now full bottles on the miller effect capacitance in transistors.
So you see,your so called measurementalist's are the guys you learn from-->the guys that separate rubbish from gold.There was(some time ago) a guy that went by the name UFOpolotics over at energetic forum,that not oncebut twice claimed he had an overunity motor. His first claim of OU was based around how many 500 watt light bulbs he could light with X amount of power in. He assumed that if a 500 watt lightbulb lit,then it was using 500 watts of power-->mistake number one. Then he carried out a prony brake test on his motor,and through his incorrect calculations,told everyone once again that his motor was definitely OU. The next thing that happened was he started putting kits together,and a lot of members started buying these kit's.At this point in time i stated on his thread that he carried out the prony brake test incorrectly,and his motor was infact only 62% efficient. He then asked me to leave his thread :o,and said i was full of sh*t,and didn't know what i was talking about. So i spent the $160.00 odd,and bought all the gear i needed to carry out a prony brake test on a stock 1HP PM motor i had lying around. The first test i did i carried out the same way that UFOpolotics did,and i ended up with a cop of >1.35,or a stock motor that was 135% efficient O0. I then carried out the test the correct way,and had a motor that was 76.5% efficient,and this was within .2% of the manufactures specks.
So you see Duncan,accurate measurements are vital in situations like this,and anyone who says they are not needed is no better than UFOpolotic's-->or any other shankster.
@Duncan
QuoteThe Dunning–Kruger things very amusing I particularly liked the bank robber with the lemon juice!
Only in America I would think!
I would agree and I have found that most people who speak of the Dunning–Kruger effect are simply trying to justify their own skewed opinion without actually proving anything. As if to say-- I do not believe it can work therefore the other person must be inferior to me in some way and suffering from delusions of grandeur because they could never be as smart nor as grand as I am. This relates to narcissistic personality disorder in my opinion whereby a person applies one set of rules to others but never to themselves as a way of empowering themselves. It is a poor and often misguided arguement in my opinion.
QuoteThat is the general run of things after all Idea > debate > principles of operation > build > test > measurements and performance data .
As far as this thread goes (and many others) well there's nothing built yet .. Is there ??
what the hell is there to measure ? Yet we've already got a flock of measurist's oh joy!
Another good point and I have decided that when I do build a working device to demonstrate there will be no need to measure anything to avoid these kinds of circlular and quite pointless debates. I think we all understand that it starts with a simple request for measurements then the measures are called into question followed by more protocols and more measurements and this continues until all debate concerning whether it might actually work have ceased. It is obvious to me from experience that they will never be satisfied by any measurements until they have proven their point whatever that may be. I believe T.H.Moray had it right -- You cannot prove anything to anyone who cannot prove the matter for themselves.
QuoteI did have an email from another member suggesting its quite pointless posting on this forum anymore, It might be right and that would be a shame.
I wouldn't say pointless however we should understand the motivations of some of the people we might debate with. In many cases I have found it has nothing to do with learning or debating or proving anything of substance moreso the critic winning the argument through attrition. They simply hammer away endlessly until all constructive debate of the real issues has ceased so they can feel good about themselves. I understand it can be very frustrating for many however once we understand the psychology here it can be quite comical. I see the critic roll in and make one comment and I know all hell is going to break loose and any real debate about anything of substance it about to end, lol. I mean it is so damn obvious and predictable a person just has to laugh about it in my opinion.
Whenever the critics and measurists start in I get this funny picture in my head of them flogging a horse. They say how long is the stick, what is the velocity, how hard did it hit, what was your technique?. No no no that measurement was wrong, the whip is 1.354mm too long you fool. However they are flogging a dead horse and all their debate is absolutely pointless... just bury the damn thing and move on.
AC
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2015.04.06, 16:18:11
@Duncan
I would agree and I have found that most people who speak of the Dunning–Kruger effect are simply trying to justify their own skewed opinion without actually proving anything. As if to say-- I do not believe it can work therefore the other person must be inferior to me in some way and suffering from delusions of grandeur because they could never be as smart nor as grand as I am. This relates to narcissistic personality disorder in my opinion whereby a person applies one set of rules to others but never to themselves as a way of empowering themselves. It is a poor and often misguided arguement in my opinion.
Another good point and I have decided that when I do build a working device to demonstrate there will be no need to measure anything to avoid these kinds of circlular and quite pointless debates. I think we all understand that it starts with a simple request for measurements then the measures are called into question followed by more protocols and more measurements and this continues until all debate concerning whether it might actually work have ceased. It is obvious to me from experience that they will never be satisfied by any measurements until they have proven their point whatever that may be. I believe T.H.Moray had it right -- You cannot prove anything to anyone who cannot prove the matter for themselves.
I wouldn't say pointless however we should understand the motivations of some of the people we might debate with. In many cases I have found it has nothing to do with learning or debating or proving anything of substance moreso the critic winning the argument through attrition. They simply hammer away endlessly until all constructive debate of the real issues has ceased so they can feel good about themselves. I understand it can be very frustrating for many however once we understand the psychology here it can be quite comical. I see the critic roll in and make one comment and I know all hell is going to break loose and any real debate about anything of substance it about to end, lol. I mean it is so damn obvious and predictable a person just has to laugh about it in my opinion.
Whenever the critics and measurists start in I get this funny picture in my head of them flogging a horse. They say how long is the stick, what is the velocity, how hard did it hit, what was your technique?. No no no that measurement was wrong, the whip is 1.354mm too long you fool. However they are flogging a dead horse and all their debate is absolutely pointless... just bury the damn thing and move on.
AC
AC
Your all over the show. One day you pop up in a thread drunk,and start a dribble fest on some one's post,and the next day you seem to flip the reality switch,and agree that accurate measurements are a must. Now here you are saying there not needed-quote: I have decided that when I do build a working device to demonstrate there will be no need to measure anything to avoid these kinds of circlular and quite pointless debates.
pointless debate's?. You are on Overunityreserch,and one of the most vital parts of success is accurate measurements,and know what you are looking at when it comes to power and energies. But here you are saying--It's not required :o
Have you been drinking again?
Hey Matt
QuoteCorrect me if I am wrong AC.
No as usual you are correct and a looper is a peculiar concept in itself I think. Now if we have a device with no apperent input and connected to it is a 500w light where is the input and how do you measure it?. It is like saying here we have a circle with no beginning and no end and yet from this circle we have an output, where is the beginning if the beginning is everywhere?.
I mean no offense to anyone but I see so many who claim to be open minded but their just not because being open minded means we must be willing to change our minds and few are. So yes I routinely flip the reality switch and change my mind and follow through on things which seem pointless... why wouldn't we?. I mean if what were doing isn't working then why in the hell do we keep doing it, lol.
I like your posts Matt, not that were in agreement all the time but moreso because unlike most here your willing to put a little different spin on the broken record playing here, thank you.
AC
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2015.04.06, 18:32:04
Hey Matt
No as usual you are correct and a looper is a peculiar concept in itself I think. Now if we have a device with no apperent input and connected to it is a 500w light where is the input and how do you measure it?. It is like saying here we have a circle with no beginning and no end and yet from this circle we have an output, where is the beginning if the beginning is everywhere?.
I mean no offense to anyone but I see so many who claim to be open minded but their just not because being open minded means we must be willing to change our minds and few are. So yes I routinely flip the reality switch and change my mind and follow through on things which seem pointless... why wouldn't we?. I mean if what were doing isn't working then why in the hell do we keep doing it, lol.
I like your posts Matt, not that were in agreement all the time but moreso because unlike most here your willing to put a little different spin on the broken record playing here, thank you.
AC
A self running looped system with an output(Q) would have to be where measurements are of the up most importance. How else would you expect to find out what the energy input is?-->or do we just leave it at that-->an unknown. Measurements arnt just to determine wether or not a device is cop>1,they are to determine as to where the energy is coming from,or what that energy is.Once this is known,then devices of far more efficient design can be made to harness that energy.
The trick is I think that, "You gotta know when to hold em" and "you gotta know when to fold em", kind of thing.
I'll replicate a self runner as a matter of utmost priority, when one is shown that is. Until then I'll keep thinking of how to improve my situation, and if I build a self runner or over 1.0 C.O.P. device I'll post details and demonstrate it so others can do it.
Otherwise I'll encourage others not to be so gullible when it comes to replicating unproven "idea's", claiming to be OU with no proof.
If I observe something interesting or that which makes no sense to me I might post about that as well.
What I won't do is claim a self runner with a big battery in the system, or more out than in without getting a replication from a competent builder and tester first.
From what I've seen there is no shortage of crazy idea's already.
Call me ignorant. But what exactly has this Russ person achieved in the way of free energy collection of a "novel form" ? Does he have "Guru" status ? (as in has he claimed OU but never proved it, yet many people believe he has or something ? )
..
Maybe we should all compare our houshold power bills. To see who is paying who and how much.
..
FarmHand,
You make very wise observations. For every possible case of
potential "overunity" or "free energy" there should be a
plausible explanation.
Every instance of strange anomalous energy which I've witnessed
has no explanation. It manifests in such a way that its presence
is visible yet it defies all reasonable possibilities.
The only "controlled" evidence of such anomalous energy I've
witnessed have been several strange airborne craft of the UFO
category.
I've come to believe, therefore, that the elusive "overunity" is
sourced from the realm of the supernatural. Certain entities
are capable of making it manifest and use that ability to both
tantalize us as well as to teasingly deceive us.
Daniel Pomerleau is one who is able to summon it forth in
a controlled fashion but has no idea how it is possible or
who/what he is in communion with.
Pursuing it electronically can have its rewards in that one learns
a great deal in the process. And, in due course, wisdom does
implant itself in our minds and we realize that "overunity" is a very
strange animal indeed.
I had seriously thought not to write another word but of course that might well be the intention, I now know evolvingape has a super developed machine that's COP > ,stable and replicable . Lucky man The trouble is the 'ape-gen' isn't powering houses up and down down my road so regardless I am still going to take an interest in COP>1 machines Its a hobby I enjoy and I believe its very important.
Whilst making no claim regarding myself I would ask you reading this to consider that if the original concept worked (and you must be the judge of that ) and if what Clarence has built works (likewise) then tptb will and must do everything and anything to shut the technology down ... I hope you understand that. It could put Clarence in a lot of danger if he continues, Clarence knows the score!
As for myself it is clear that I have been 'flamed' as Grummage predicted It has thrown the thread and the particular point into disarray --- most of you reading this are not stupid, don't you think that was the intention ?
Could I possibly have stumbled on a key point ? I would ask you to focus on the point I was making and the reason I was making it and not allow personalities or flaming sessions to divert your concentration . I don't mind being wrong, and I don't mind being mistaken and I don't mind it being questioned ... In a correct and decent manner . Wrong Wrong Wrong It doesn't take energy to blow a fuse – In my opinion is not a decent manner ! Added to that the man is wrong himself and that distinction could be very very important. Here's why .. Very large currents are being measured in that loop , Its obvious that has a part to play. You are being diverted from it by .. well really any bloody thing that can be thought of , Circulating current from the grid , The meter must be wrong
current that large would blow the cable Its this last sentence and my focus on it that started the fire
and the evovingapes piffle about energy not being required to blow a cable.
Let me then simplify by example so you can understand and judge .. lets take electrocution as the study. If any part of this doesn't make sense feel free to question . It takes energy to electrocute you that energy is made up of volts (the pressure) Amps (the flow) (the product of these two components make up power) and of course time is required for energy , despite evolvingape's peculiar theory read it yourself you will find it takes energy to electrocute you blow a fuse or anything else for that matter!
Now lets take the case of a car ignition coil, I'm sure most have had a snap off one of those at some time or another ... It isn't nice but you are not dead, That's because there are thousands of volts but very little current available. The product of VI is not sufficient to kill . For the moment I would like you to imagine a coil wound such that the voltage was .. well its imaginary so infinite and so the current of course would be infinitely small, you could now grab the cable and detect nothing at all
I hope you can see this even if you perhaps don't fully agree .. yet
With this machine on that loop It seems to me there is the same situation but of course totally reversed The current is huge but V is infinitely small.
I believe like Lord Voldemort that it is what you know as VA r I also believe like his Lordship that it can rejuvenate batteries.
I also said its difficult to measure reactive power, why ? Because it isn't supposed to be able to do anything still here's a shot at it for your inspection
http://www.ni.com/tutorial/4509/en/ (http://www.ni.com/tutorial/4509/en/)
It may also sound as if I am at war with measurists , as you probe a little into reactive current and power you'll quickly find units which are not common and certainly in the electrostatic domain not available most text books.
So I have seen things happen and I suspect I know why but scopes. And flukes don't answer and neither does ohms law and its ilk
Perhaps now you may start to see the importance of the two points I was pressing
1/ The make up of energy and particularly
2/ can reactive power charge batteries
As for a burning or .. please stay on subject and that is this at this time this system and what might make it tick we all seek answers. anyway The phoenix has been known to rise from the ashes.
muDped A little more of John Chang for your Interest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdYM0vNufwc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdYM0vNufwc)
I suspect (in fact I know) Gregory V. Simpson, PhD used more than a DVM on John but its not really the issue here. I was simply asked for examples that can't be easily measured as preparation for a flame and picked on DJ
kind regards Duncan
I am suffering from this condition am I AC ? lol you are getting desperate are you not!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
Farmhand hit it spot on, an accurate and sensible account of the situation and from a "measurist" not an OU proponent.. imagine that..
Quote from: Farmhand on 2015.04.07, 02:55:18
The trick is I think that, "You gotta know when to hold em" and "you gotta know when to fold em", kind of thing.
I'll replicate a self runner as a matter of utmost priority, when one is shown that is. Until then I'll keep thinking of how to improve my situation, and if I build a self runner or over 1.0 C.O.P. device I'll post details and demonstrate it so others can do it.
Otherwise I'll encourage others not to be so gullible when it comes to replicating unproven "idea's", claiming to be OU with no proof.
If I observe something interesting or that which makes no sense to me I might post about that as well.
What I won't do is claim a self runner with a big battery in the system, or more out than in without getting a replication from a competent builder and tester first.
From what I've seen there is no shortage of crazy idea's already.
Call me ignorant. But what exactly has this Russ person achieved in the way of free energy collection of a "novel form" ? Does he have "Guru" status ? (as in has he claimed OU but never proved it, yet many people believe he has or something ? )
..
Maybe we should all compare our houshold power bills. To see who is paying who and how much.
..
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.07, 06:35:03
evovingapes piffle about energy not being required to blow a cable.
What the hell are you on about man ? I never mentioned anything about energy not being required to blow a cable! Quote me fool, quote me!
If you cannot even keep your mind straight on what's going on within a few short posts it would appear the "piffle" is coming from you Duncan..
Excess energy is everywhere but when for example transformer is tapping extra energy it goes bad and smoke is the result.. O0
oops tin man ... I just went back to find to quote you asked for that got me bent out of shape .. I'm afraid I got your rant confused with tinselcola who was also busy having a slap sooo sorry o'l chap ... not as good as the lemon juice guy though!
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.07, 10:44:58
oops tin man ... I just went back to find to quote you asked for that got me bent out of shape .. I'm afraid I got your rant confused with tinselcola who was also busy having a slap sooo sorry o'l chap ... not as good as the lemon juice guy though!
I think your completely mixed up Ducan lol. It was TK i believe that was talking about blowing fuses,and you thought is was EA,and now your appologising to me for something i had nothing to do with lol.
Now,it seems that once again,my post didnt get through :'(.
Anyway,some one(cant remember who now) said a few post back to get crazy with idea's,and just slap something together lol. So i did just that. Here is the Tesla Reactor. It started out as a junk good for nothing project,but turns out it has some interesting things going on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVffZOnerUk
Wow
This was like the Old Bar room Brawl.....
Oh the good old days :D
Sigh.... But I slept through the whole Thing :-\
If you'd really like to have a mess around with things that could pertain tinman and particularly reactive current, as I pointed out Voldemort Say's reactive current charges batteries ... capacitors are also a DC blocker as I'm sure you know but here its being taken close to resonance by switching in and out caps . Perhaps then you might then like to alter your lovely Tesla reactor slightly and use those nice big caps and test the veracity of this
http://www.johnsavesenergy.com/CapacitiveBatteryCharger.html#.VSOe9lItFdg (http://www.johnsavesenergy.com/CapacitiveBatteryCharger.html#.VSOe9lItFdg)
I already have but I'd very much like a second opinion . And any idea's on why . As the man says it can get a tad scary still its only an o'l battery and a cap away
kind regards Duncan
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.07, 13:16:25
If you'd really like to have a mess around with things that could pertain tinman and particularly reactive current, as I pointed out Voldemort Say's reactive current charges batteries ... capacitors are also a DC blocker as I'm sure you know . Perhaps then you might then like to alter your lovely Tesla reactor slightly and use those nice big caps and test the veracity of this
http://www.johnsavesenergy.com/CapacitiveBatteryCharger.html#.VSOe9lItFdg (http://www.johnsavesenergy.com/CapacitiveBatteryCharger.html#.VSOe9lItFdg)
I already have but I'd very much like a second opinion . And any idea's on why . As the man says it can get a tad scary still its only an o'l battery and a cap away
kind regards Duncan
Looks as boaring as bat sh*t. I'll leave that one with you duncan.
I am actually getting a bit serous now with the Tesla/Hudini hybryd,and have started a new build with a much neater setup. I am actually going to try ground rods on the next one,just to see if any difference is noticed.
@Duncan
QuoteIf you'd really like to have a mess around with things that could pertain tinman and particularly reactive current, as I pointed out Voldemort Say's reactive current charges batteries ... capacitors are also a DC blocker as I'm sure you know but here its being taken close to resonance by switching in and out caps . Perhaps then you might then like to alter your lovely Tesla reactor slightly and use those nice big caps and test the veracity of this
http://www.johnsavesenergy.com/CapacitiveBatteryCharger.html#.VSOe9lItFdg
I already have but I'd very much like a second opinion . And any idea's on why . As the man says it can get a tad scary still its only an o'l battery and a cap away
I have built that battery charger circuit and it works fine, the capacitor simply limits the amount of charge which may pass through on each positive and negative cycle within the alternating current. It is no different than placing a flexible membrane in a alternating water hose and performs the same function.
The thing to remember here is that reactive power is defined as energy which is stored within the system and returned to it performing no work in the process. Consider a pendulum which swings back and forth performing no external work as reactive power however if it did perform work then this loss of motion would need to be made up somewhere which is real power which must be provided from a source. In the battery charger some energy is dissipated on each positive and negative half cycle in the battery and the process is pretty straight forward. A capacitor may block a constant DC current however it does not block energy dissipated within the AC cycle because each AC half cycle is a DC current and each time the current reverses the source will see the energy lost on the last half cycle. As such the AC series capacitor circuit is always losing energy which is being dissipated and the source is making up for this lost energy in a seamless process. Remember we are speaking of the flow of Energy in the system...Energy.
To be honest I prefer series caps to limit current and it is really no more dangerous than a parallel capacitor which would represent a dead short in the system if it ever failed closing the circuit. As well a ridiculously simple high current cut-out can be built with a $3 hall effect current sensor and a couple $2 mosfets wired back to back to shut down the circuit at any preset current level. At which point it would be very simple to add a $1 voltage divider/opto isolator to monitor the battery voltage and turn the mosfets off on any high voltage condition... too easy.
AC
thanks for that AC kind of you to comment into the context of what I tried ( I'd like to run it again but my workshop is full of kitchen units right now) I had three totally sulphated batteries .. (an ebike that had been left for 2 years) ... pretty much as described in that web page with switched caps I got to the snap crackle pop bit and the battery amazingly did a very quick recovery. as you say
I then decided to try a variable frequency supply as well (a motor speed controller) I had the idea at the back of my mind to hove as close to series resonance as I could ... that is if you like treating the battery and the bridge simply as any circuit that could be run resonant ... I know of course there's power factor involved and I really didn't have the equipment to measure what was going on but it seemed very impressive. George Wiseman uses something very similar to turn his electric meter backwards
http://www.scribd.com/doc/130814659/Reverse-Your-Electric-Meter-Legally-preview#scribd
(http://www.scribd.com/doc/130814659/Reverse-Your-Electric-Meter-Legally-preview#scribd)
of course he's charging a bank (110v) of batteries) or in my case 240v that way with the benefit of off peak he's running his home off batteries and feeding excess back to the grid . I have noticed charging like this is very fast and the utility meter hardly moves . regardless of if its 1 or 10 batteries The legality of all that I don't know ... if it would loop or even if the batteries could be kept at resonance or alternated with another set I don't know either , I guess really the utility should also pay you for putting capacitive load on their grid .. don't think that's going to happen ;D kind regards Duncan
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.07, 07:00:21
muDped A little more of John Chang for your Interest
John Chang Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdYM0vNufwc)
I suspect (in fact I know) Gregory V. Simpson, PhD used more than a DVM on John but its not really the issue here. I was simply asked for examples that can't be easily measured as preparation for a flame and picked on DJ
kind regards Duncan
Thanks for your link Duncan. There is truth in the video
which points to the true source of anomalous energy.
Where do you believe the energy comes from?
One of the guys on OU posted this link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFowJ-SqEi8
It shows a captor like effect with a closed loop.
Any ideas?
It seems to be acting like a current amplifier although no input measurements are provided.
Anyone seen this effect before?
Cheers.
Quote from: Aking.21 on 2015.04.08, 03:23:03
One of the guys on OU posted this link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFowJ-SqEi8
It shows a captor like effect with a closed loop.
Any ideas?
It seems to be acting like a current amplifier although no input measurements are provided.
Anyone seen this effect before?
Cheers.
It is interesting,as the magnetic field is suppose to be contained within the toroid,so one would think(other than the PM he stuck on the toroid)that nothing around the outside should influence the magnetic field within that toroid. I would think that the magnetic field is being altered due to the single loop turn,which sets up it's own magnetic field.,and changing the oscillating frequency required to obtain maximum gain/amplitude through the LED's. That was an interesting idea using the small cap-->i wonder if that would make some sort of tank?.
a.king & tinman permit me to remind you of this old chestnut by Chris Carson RIP see circa 6 mins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lqMiZPO9TM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lqMiZPO9TM) It does make sense to me but I have been trying for hours to write something that might get it across, re this thing not sure I'll manage
Mind, Body & Kick Ass Moves - Dim Mak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRLu2jzLJto
The dimmak touch of death master - Downloaded from bullshido. This fat, sloppy martial arts instructor claims he can drop his opponent with with one touch.Whats your take on this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi3t1yVE-gk
Kiai Master vs MMA - a Kiai Master offers a 5000 dollar challenge that he can beat any MMA fighter. Too bad for him because his techniques doesn't affect the MMA fighter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I
My personal favourite that one O0
Karate Instructor Smacks Student In Face and Fight Breaks Out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buYAxrwEcSk
The last video is what happens when a con artist is confronted by someone with a strong mind!
So.. what have we learned from these video's ?
Is the martial arts Master the equivalent of someone who preaches OU devices exist everywhere and can instruct you in how to build one (for a price or for free) ? Note they never show their completed OU machine so that the student can have total faith the Master's teachings are sound as evidenced by their OU device!
Are the students gullible ? Are they the equivalent of the OU sycophants who hang on the Master's every word and instruction in the hope that they one day will be able to build an OU machine (just like their Master's non-existent OU device) ?
What happens when they come across a strong mind who needs evidence and not merely blind belief ?
There are many things we do not understand about the human body and the nature of existence itself, mysteries which are slowly being solved by the application of the scientific method, and not the cult of blind belief.
Quote from: Aking.21 on 2015.04.08, 03:23:03
One of the guys on OU posted this link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFowJ-SqEi8
It shows a captor like effect with a closed loop.
Any ideas?
It seems to be acting like a current amplifier although no input measurements are provided.
Anyone seen this effect before?
Cheers.
The shorted one-turn "secondary" changes the impedance of the wound toroid, thus changing the operating frequency of the JT. The magnets applied to the toroid drive the core material into, or closer to, full saturation, also changing its operating frequency. There is nothing special happening here, no "captor" effect and no current amplifier as we might ordinarily term it. Just pushing the JT circuit around its operating parameter range.
An oscilloscope would show very clearly what is happening: duty cycle and frequency are varying, which affects the visible brightness of the LEDs, power draw, from the source, etc.
Bill (Pirate) at OU knows this stuff very well, and there have been some really good JT threads over there, look for "Jeanna" who did a lot of mighty fine work and between them, Bill and Jeanna know how to make the very best JTs, optimized for brightness and low power draw. Bill uses them around his home for regular illumination and collects "empty" batteries from his neighbors to run them.
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.08, 12:16:16
a.king & tinman permit me to remind you of this old chestnut by Chris Carson RIP see circa 6 mins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lqMiZPO9TM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lqMiZPO9TM) It does make sense to me but I have been trying for hours to write something that might get it across, re this thing not sure I'll manage
Oh,i watched the first 5 seconds-->Eric Dollard. I'll give that a miss.
Eric Dollard
Associates with Arron the rookie,Peter Linerman and hudini.
Still flat broke.
No house
No car
And still no OU device despite all he knows about energy.This go's for the rest of the crowd and there many books of secrets-->they must be secrets from even them self's.
Hi evolvingape liked the video's of course I haven't phoned or spoken to anyone on them so I don't know how authentic they are.
Many things we don't know about the human body ? There are many things we don't know period !
There are none so blind as those who cannot see .. John haywood
I am discovering he was not quite right
There are none so blind as those who will not look.
It isn't difficult either batteries charge on reactive power or they don't . If they do the text books are going to have to be re-written if they don't Dini and I are telling you porkies . Video's or scribble wont hack it.
that doesn't mean I have all the answers , my house is still on the grid, but I have iced a battery delivering a load .. (you can believe that or not I couldn't care less), I know I couldn't do it on demand anyway .still I have a pretty good idea of 'how and why' and it fits in here. as for what you call 'The cult of blind belief' I would think thats what Wilbur Wright had when he climed abord Kitty hawk in 1903 when all the measurists and other assorted arse holes and scientists said it couldn't be done . Yeah he certainly put his neck on the line
Yeah call it a cult of blind belief if you like, proud to be in that number, These things work if you don't want to belive that its no skin off my nose ! Metal boats float too ... amazing
have a look at that toroid and ponder where the phasor that represents the longitudinal wave (which also isn't supposed to exist) might be! This shorted turn is no answer as tinman Chris Carson and I have pointed out no flux should leave the core to engage with the winding
Kind Regards Duncan
@evolvingape:
those are some of my favorites too. The "woo" of Martial Arts. They show that gullible people can indeed be influenced by psychological factors. And that there are many fake martial artist "gurus" sifus, senseis, whatever, who have gulled their students and essentially hypnotized them (and sometimes themselves) into believing in "special powers".
That last clip is painfully shameful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NA2LOPjCic
(Be careful trying this at home, Nikkyo is an extremely painful and dangerous joint lock. Done at full speed against someone who doesn't know how to fall, it can easily break the wrist.)
Meanwhile there are still some genuine martial arts teachers and systems that actually work. Krav Maga, Realni Aikido, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu are some examples. And they don't depend on "special powers"... just hard training and understanding of body dynamics and movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD_Xqo5iT3Q
John Chang?? GMAFB. I thought this was supposed to be a scientific forum.
ETA: Here's a nice clip of a couple of guys having fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXO9FrZ1N9s
Quote from: TinMan on 2015.04.08, 14:59:31
Oh,i watched the first 5 seconds-->Eric Dollard. I'll give that a miss.
Eric Dollard
Associates with Arron the rookie,Peter Linerman and hudini.
Still flat broke.
No house
No car
And still no OU device despite all he knows about energy.This go's for the rest of the crowd and there many books of secrets-->they must be secrets from even them self's.
100 percent right on.
O0
Scientific forum ? Its a forum dedicated to the research of over unity as far as I understand it .
Science is adamant over unity doesn't exist so it is certainly not a scientific forum per se !
It is however a forum dedicated to Over unity research which happens to have quite a number of scientists represented. If you wish to join a scientific forum I'll be happy to direct you to one !
This forum however seems to be well represented by engineers ,scientists , workers, retired people, teenagers builders and free thinkers of all sorts with many ambitions . The only thing in common is an interest in 'free energy' .. unless you know different ? I suppose if you can re-write basic energy calculations any things possible .. yeah its a bicyclists forum whatever you want.
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.08, 15:30:50
Scientific forum ? Its a forum dedicated to the research of over unity as far as I understand it .
Science is adamant over unity doesn't exist so it is certainly not a scientific forum per se !
It is however a forum dedicated to Over unity research which happens to have quite a number of scientists represented. If you wish to join a scientific forum I'll be happy to direct you to one !
This forum however seems to be well represented by engineers ,scientists , workers, retired people, teenagers builders and free thinkers of all sorts with many ambitions . The only thing in common is an interest in 'free energy' .. unless you know different ? I suppose if you can re-write basic energy calculations any things possible .. yeah its a bicyclists forum whatever you want.
No, you are wrong. Science is a method, not an opinion. If you don't think this is supposed to be a scientific forum, well... that does make sense considering the content of your posts. I suggest you read up on what exactly the Scientific Method is, and how it's carried out: by theorizing, hypothesizing, performing experiments that actually test hypotheses, and revising hypotheses and theories based on the results of properly performed experimentation. Without science and the Scientific Method, you will wind up chasing after clowns like Eric Dollard and John Chang in search of something you will never find. because it doesn't really exist.
According to the "creed" of this forum, it's supposed to be scientific in its approach to research. And for the most part it is, as you can tell from the work of people like Tinman, grumage, ION, poynt99, Dr. Jones, and many others. Some people, unfortunately, don't seem to conform to this standard.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8.0;attach=22
I don't think you'll find a better statement of how a scientific forum is supposed to operate, than that.
@evolvingape
QuoteIs the martial arts Master the equivalent of someone who preaches OU devices exist everywhere and can instruct you in how to build one (for a price or for free) ? Note they never show their completed OU machine so that the student can have total faith the Master's teachings are sound as evidenced by their OU device!
Are the students gullible ? Are they the equivalent of the OU sycophants who hang on the Master's every word and instruction in the hope that they one day will be able to build an OU machine (just like their Master's non-existent OU device) ?
You know I have come to understand so many things in a short period of time that many have spent a lifetime searching for but I do not feel all that smart or strong, I feel like a student who has just scratched the surface of things to come. Me... I will always be a student.
AC
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015.04.08, 15:50:18
No, you are wrong. Science is a method, not an opinion. If you don't think this is supposed to be a scientific forum, well... that does make sense considering the content of your posts. I suggest you read up on what exactly the Scientific Method is, and how it's carried out: by theorizing, hypothesizing, performing experiments that actually test hypotheses, and revising hypotheses and theories based on the results of properly performed experimentation. Without science and the Scientific Method, you will wind up chasing after clowns like Eric Dollard and John Chang in search of something you will never find. because it doesn't really exist.
According to the "creed" of this forum, it's supposed to be scientific in its approach to research. And for the most part it is, as you can tell from the work of people like Tinman, grumage, ION, poynt99, Dr. Jones, and many others. Some people, unfortunately, don't seem to conform to this standard.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8.0;attach=22
I don't think you'll find a better statement of how a scientific forum is supposed to operate, than that.
Is that link working TK ? Sends me to a login page even when logged in.
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2015.04.08, 16:00:49
@evolvingape
You know I have come to understand so many things in a short period of time that many have spent a lifetime searching for but I do not feel all that smart or strong, I feel like a student who has just scratched the surface of things to come. Me... I will always be a student.
AC
The more you learn the greater appreciation you have for how little you actually know, it can be a very humbling experience. I read an article a while back from a study done on "successful" people and the main theme running through was that they had adopted the mindset of a beginner, open to learning.. as opposed to a large percentage of people who believe they are masters of their craft while not demonstrating so in real life.
It's good you have that attitude AC, I believe it is the correct approach and the one I have always followed. If you like the martial arts philosophy it is akin to Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon showing the student that the glass must be emptied before it can be filled.
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015.04.08, 15:05:34
@evolvingape:
those are some of my favorites too. The "woo" of Martial Arts. They show that gullible people can indeed be influenced by psychological factors. And that there are many fake martial artist "gurus" sifus, senseis, whatever, who have gulled their students and essentially hypnotized them (and sometimes themselves) into believing in "special powers".
That last clip is painfully shameful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NA2LOPjCic
(Be careful trying this at home, Nikkyo is an extremely painful and dangerous joint lock. Done at full speed against someone who doesn't know how to fall, it can easily break the wrist.)
Meanwhile there are still some genuine martial arts teachers and systems that actually work. Krav Maga, Realni Aikido, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu are some examples. And they don't depend on "special powers"... just hard training and understanding of body dynamics and movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD_Xqo5iT3Q
John Chang?? GMAFB. I thought this was supposed to be a scientific forum.
ETA: Here's a nice clip of a couple of guys having fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXO9FrZ1N9s
Hi TK, yeah I agree there are some very worthwhile martial arts but finding a good Master to study under is key. Most real street fights are over in literally seconds and a lot of these fancy guys would be in real trouble.. serious trouble. Those 2 fella's you linked to having fun would probably be alright ;). Wish I had kept up the studies but you know what teenagers are like.. other interests catch your eye and can be very persuasive!
That last clip is painfully shameful but shows what happens when a snakeoil salesman comes up against reality..
@Duncan
QuoteScientific forum ? Its a forum dedicated to the research of over unity as far as I understand it .
Science is adamant over unity doesn't exist so it is certainly not a scientific forum per se !
It is however a forum dedicated to Over unity research which happens to have quite a number of scientists represented. If you wish to join a scientific forum I'll be happy to direct you to one !
This forum however seems to be well represented by engineers ,scientists , workers, retired people, teenagers builders and free thinkers of all sorts with many ambitions . The only thing in common is an interest in 'free energy' .. unless you know different ? I suppose if you can re-write basic energy calculations any things possible .. yeah its a bicyclists forum whatever you want.
That post was brilliant in my opinion and begs the question why would I conform to rigid standards and beliefs when none of the people conforming have ever even come remotely close to succeeding?.
@TK
QuoteNo, you are wrong. Science is a method, not an opinion.
I would disagree, when we buy into the method we also buy into the belief that the method will generally always give us the right answers and we have laid the whole of our foundation on this fact. Consider this, what if you already had all the pieces to the puzzzle, I mean they are literally staring you right in the face, however you always lay them out in exactly the same order which is why you never see the correct picture. You see the pieces are what they are however it is the method of how we put the pieces together which determines the result.
In any case some of my best results were when I did something I literally knew could never work but I had to try it anyways. Obviously I was wrong about many things and I continue to be wrong to this day which means I'm moving in the right direction in my opinion. Which is a strange construct in itself, if we think we understand everything and could never be wrong then we have nothing to learn and were not going anywhere in which case right may be wrong, lol.
I should note I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong and I'm an engineer who believes in science, method and accurate measurement. However there is evidence to suggest people with none of these qualities have succeeded moreso than others and there is no rhyme nor reason to it. So I'm just keeping my bases covered by going with the flow...both ways.
AC
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2015.04.08, 17:11:09
That post was brilliant in my opinion and begs the question why would I conform to rigid standards and beliefs when none of the people conforming have ever even come remotely close to succeeding?.
Brilliant ? Not in my opinion!
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2015.04.08, 17:11:09
I would disagree, when we buy into the method we also buy into the belief that the method will generally always give us the right answers and we have laid the whole of our foundation on this fact. Consider this, what if you already had all the pieces to the puzzzle, I mean they are literally staring you right in the face, however you always lay them out in exactly the same order which is why you never see the correct picture. You see the pieces are what they are however it is the method of how we put the pieces together which determines the result.
In any case some of my best results were when I did something I literally knew could never work but I had to try it anyways. Obviously I was wrong about many things and I continue to be wrong to this day which means I'm moving in the right direction in my opinion. Which is a strange construct in itself, if we think we understand everything and could never be wrong then we have nothing to learn and were not going anywhere in which case right is wrong, lol.
AC
You are not describing the Scientific Method.
http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_scientific_method.shtml#keyinfo
I don't require lessons the definition of science thank you
1. noun: science
1. the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.
Still I did read the creed again which is more than you have done with information I have asked you to consider.
I guess were this a specifically scientific forum then of all the above 'observation and systematic' you certainly couldn't be accused of !
As regards this thread as yet There is nothing to measure, no experiments done, there is conjecture on how it might be approached and how it might work. I have an idea I would like you to look at it
I drew your attention to Chris Carson you decided not to observe ! Science is defined above its language is usually (by enlarge) mathematics,
where the boundaries of mathematics fail the observed criteria then other means are required !
I really don't know if Eric Dollard , John Dini , Peter Lindermann or anyone else you like (or don't) for that matter powers their house off line I doubt you do either,they are not going to rush to tell you anyway are they? Its dangerous! anyway Its a career as far as they are all concerned now.. For all that to ignor the work particularly the early stuff seems to serve no purpous.
What Carson had to say has been reiterated by many others I see little point hunting about for someone who's odour you prefer.
your view of what science should be luckily does not prevail and most folks broadly follow the outline above . No ones taken the $ 1,000,000 1 watt challenge money yet from this forum or any other (as far as I know) despite all the good people and the works you mention (which I whole hartedly agree with by the way) .
That doesnt mean many or at least some haven't buit machines COP>1, I know some have but the information isn't out there where it should be is it ? For various reasons
Somethings wrong kind regards Duncan
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.08, 18:08:14
That doesnt mean many or at least some haven't buit machines COP>1, I know some have but the information isn't out there where it should be is it ? For various reasons
Somethings wrong kind regards Duncan
Duncan
You keep on and on about these COP>1 devices. Time and time again i have asked that you present just one,and time after time you fail to produce just that one device that is COP>1.
It is becoming boaring C.C
Oh no its you that keeps on tinman how might I present someone else's machine , be it yours, MJNs A Cs Boyce or anyone else's for that matter? its not my place to disclose, which doesn't mean I haven't met and seen folks who have running machines after all I haven't seen your machine but if you say it dances I have no reason to doubt it. Its just another. COP machine
I don't ask you constantly to show the thing because its meaningless anyway ! Video's can be faked writing can be lies, pages and endless pages of who measured what where would follow and I agree its bloody tedious
so stop asking the bloody stupid questions. If the folks I do know that have built COP>1 machines wanted to Advertise the fact and be Named they would do so .It seems to be just a tad dangerous to kith and kin so they opt not to .
If I managed to make a powerful ,reliable, easily replicable machine I would want to get it out there in the world, I don't know quite how I'd go about that but so far forums haven't achieved it have they ?
They have got folks threatened and hurt though ... and don't be daft enough to ask who and what's his machine :D
suffice to say If I did have a working machine I reserve the right to declare it or not .( At the moment that would be a not). So to put that in a nutshell .. 1/ COP >1 machines exist and I will talk about them and mention the fact now and again 2/ I know one or two people who have built COP>1 machines . I have met them and they have been kind enough to give me information , I will not name them , by enlarge they don't want to be named I would need their permission . I am not going to ask for your amusement
3/ I have built and run a COP>1 machine. It isn't running now and it was temperamental anyway .
If it was running and did anything much more than lit an LED I would think seriously before broadcasting it . Broadcasting an idea thats a different thing again
I hope you understand all that and stop and cease highlighting COP>1 every time you see it
there is such a thing and it has to be written now and again without you going wobbly at the knees
Oh, really?
QuoteI pledge in conducting my FE research:
-
To give the utmost of performance;
To make no assumptions, no matter how "obvious" things may appear to me;
To never jump to conclusions when apparent anomalies are observed;
To investigate and strive to eliminate ALL possible sources of error BEFORE
making conclusions about any observed anomalies;
To exercise due diligence in regards to fully understanding what I am doing,
and how I am doing it;
To conduct my experiments, tests, and measurements in a scientific manner
and with the correct and most appropriate equipment;
To strive for and take steps towards making COP measurements that are
flawless and accurate, while understanding and accounting for the
limitations and idiosyncrasies of my test equipment;
To place integrity before ego;
To post claims of overunity only when backed up with solid proof and
evidence in the form of fully documented, and accurate measurements and
test setup diagrams;
To do my best in explaining and illustrating my disclosures, and be well-
prepared to answer any questions on things I may have overlooked;
To seek advice, guidance, and review from my un-biased peers and those
with more technical know-how BEFORE I post any extraordinary claims of
overunity;
To do my homework (all of the above).
In humility and with need for Collective/Higher Guidance, I make this pledge."
@evolvingape: the link loads the .pdf file of the Creed, for me.
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015.04.08, 19:53:58
Oh, really?
@evolvingape: the link loads the .pdf file of the Creed, for me.
Something weird going on then my end.. I can access the creed directly from the forum menu but not via your link i just get the log in screen (even when logged in).
Oh well.. no biggy.. thanks for letting me know.
Then by this definition
The Question 1/ how can this machine possibly work
Do back ground research 2/ watched the original footage , read through all Clarence thread pictures video
construct a hypothesis 3/ have done some of that but ... its proving impossible to relay it . People are pretending not to know ohms law or basic energy calcs, refusing to acknowledge or watch/read information,
In the terms of the definition, for the word World it is necessary to insert 'their little world'
So what's your hypothesis? Have you got one? Plant an earth rod It might demonstrate something I guess but its hardly a hypothesis is it ? A hypothesis , how it may work
Or just miss that bit out and 'she'll be right jack'?
perhaps lecture on it and then assiduously avoid doing it ?
TK your breathtaking! stitch up the basic laws of energy like a kipper and then Quote scientific rigour to me , if you were pinocco you couldn't drive with that big snout hitting the windscreen all the time !
Next you highlight measurement and COP >1 ...what's that got to do with any bloody thing ? If you hadn't noticed nothings built yet. there's nothing to measure , what is it with you guys you want to measure an empty work bench? I wrote it out earlier remember it starts idea > implementation (hypotheses if you like !...) we haven't got past the hypotheses stage .. have we ? Or did it whiz past whilst I wasn't looking?
Even Clarence says he isn't ready for measurists yet , get a grip man never mind idle COP>1 chatter where's your contribution to the hypothesis ?
@Duncan
QuoteTK your breathtaking! stitch up the basic laws of energy like a kipper and then Quote scientific rigour to me , if you were pinocco you couldn't drive with that big snout hitting the windscreen all the time !
Next you highlight measurement and COP >1 ...what's that got to do with any bloody thing ? If you hadn't noticed nothings built yet. there's nothing to measure , what is it with you guys you want to measure an empty work bench? I wrote it out earlier remember it starts idea > implementation (hypotheses if you like !...) we haven't got past the hypotheses stage .. have we ? Or did it whiz past whilst I wasn't looking?
Even Clarence says he isn't ready for measurists yet , get a grip man never mind idle COP>1 chatter where's your contribution to the hypothesis ?
Once again you have brought a great deal of clarity to the table in your last posts and many seem eager to dismantle the technology before it is even built. I have to wonder why that is because the only thing on my mind is how I can make this work.
AC
From Duncan:
Quote1/ COP >1 machines exist and I will talk about them and mention the fact now and again 2/ I know one or two people who have built COP>1 machines . I have met them and they have been kind enough to give me information , I will not name them , by enlarge they don't want to be named I would need their permission . I am not going to ask for your amusement
3/ I have built and run a COP>1 machine. It isn't running now and it was temperamental anyway .
From the Creed of this forum:
QuoteTo post claims of overunity only when backed up with solid proof and
evidence in the form of fully documented, and accurate measurements and
test setup diagrams;
From Duncan:
QuoteTK your breathtaking! stitch up the basic laws of energy like a kipper and then Quote scientific rigour to me , if you were pinocco you couldn't drive with that big snout hitting the windscreen all the time !
http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/10-ad-hominem-abusive
No "stitch up" on my part, Sir. There's nothing I've said that's wrong and, unlike you, I can and do provide checkable and credible outside references, and demonstrations of my own in support of everything I've said. I find your attitude and many of your statements offensive and ridiculous and as I've shown, you are making statements without support and going against the founding philosophy of this forum... which is, or was until you came along, a _scientific_ forum searching for overunity performance in various systems.
(And it's "you're", not "your". Speak English much, do you?)
Quote from: Duncan
Scientific forum ? Its a forum dedicated to the research of over unity as far as I understand it .
Science is adamant over unity doesn't exist so it is certainly not a scientific forum per se !
It is however a forum dedicated to Over unity research which happens to have quite a number of scientists represented. If you wish to join a scientific forum I'll be happy to direct you to one !
...
As most of us are painfully aware, Science does have
limitations. Within the realm of "Overunity" its methods
have borne no fruit.
Most manifestations of anomalous energy have no
Scientific explanation and in fact come from a source
which Science is unable to deal with. Scientific
instruments are unable to measure it even though its
effects are plainly visible and often felt.
The vast majority are not ready to admit that the source
of this mysterious energy is from outside our physical realm.
In due time even the most stubborn will acquiesce to this
Truth. We are living in the age of Signs and Wonders which
will increase over the coming months and years. We will
witness events thought impossible.
@muDped
QuoteAs most of us are painfully aware, Science does have
limitations. Within the realm of "Overunity" its methods
have borne no fruit.
I would agree, we live in an age where politicians act like dictators not moderators, teachers do not teach kids how to learn or understand but to memorize what their told, where doctors do not heal but medicate and scientists prefer to study patterns in numbers and methodology over patterns in nature. It would seem to me most people are simply pretending to be something they are not by implying their title or beliefs might make them something they never were in reality. It is pathetic, it really is and it's hard to believe people who cannot even be truthful with themselves. We live in a world where most everyone is an expert in practically nothing because most can barely manage to do what they were supposed to know let alone improve upon it in any way. We live in a world of hype where everything is changing very fast but nothing important ever changes, it's all the same old shit in a different wrapper.
I'm glad there are still some here who are willing to stir the pot otherwise the same old shit just keeps floating to the top.
AC
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.08, 19:48:26
.
QuoteOh no its you that keeps on tinman how might I present someone else's machine , be it yours, MJNs A Cs Boyce or anyone else's for that matter? its not my place to disclose, which doesn't mean I haven't met and seen folks who have running machines
Same old same old-->it's not my place to say. How many times has this one been used.
Quoteafter all I haven't seen your machine but if you say it dances I have no reason to doubt it. Its just another. COP machine
I don't ask you constantly to show the thing because its meaningless anyway
I am not sure how you know about said device,but you wouldnt have been my first choice to include in the discussion.ATM it is nothing out of the ordinary,as my wife's swinging dolphin toy has been running 13 years longer on one battery,so said device only has another 13 years to run,and then we can start asking questions.
Quoteso stop asking the bloody stupid questions. If the folks I do know that have built COP>1 machines wanted to Advertise the fact and be Named they would do so .It seems to be just a tad dangerous to kith and kin so they opt not to
Let me guess-the men in black will come and shoot all the family member's?.
I ask no question's,i ask only that you back up your claim-->which you always manage to weasel your way around from doing with the!! it's not mine!! excuse.
QuoteSo to put that in a nutshell .. 1/ COP >1 machines exist and I will talk about them and mention the fact now and again 2/ I know one or two people who have built COP>1 machines . I have met them and they have been kind enough to give me information , I will not name them , by enlarge they don't want to be named I would need their permission . I am not going to ask for your amusement
Lol-no,of course not.
3/ I have built and run a COP>1 machine. It isn't running now and it was temperamental anyway .
Lol,of course it's not running now-->the free energy must have went flat.
QuoteIf it was running and did anything much more than lit an LED I would think seriously before broadcasting it . Broadcasting an idea thats a different thing again
I hope you understand all that and stop and cease highlighting COP>1 every time you see it
there is such a thing and it has to be written now and again without you going wobbly at the knees
Lol-nothing you say Duncan will make my knee's wobble,as i know that your all talk and no action.
So to summarize.
All we need to do(according to you Duncan)to have a COP>1 device(highlighted for your entertainment),we just need a device run from a battery,where the battery voltage remains or starts to climb while the device is running and powering a load. This would be in a looped system of course,and no measurements are required because it's in a loop,and the voltage is climbing O0
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.08, 20:51:34
Even Clarence says he isn't ready for measurists yet , get a grip man never mind idle COP>1 chatter where's your contribution to the hypothesis ?
Please explain Duncan how Clarence can claim a self runner(COP>1 device)if no measurements have been taken??.
So TK has to put forth his contribution(which he has done on countless occasions on other devices) on an unworkable device,but here you are with your countless claims of COP>1 devices(even one you claim to have made),and you don't need to show or disclose one-just one said device.
Here is a simple fact-like it or lump it.
No claim of COP>1 can be confirmed without accurate measurements-period.
If you want me to show you a system running a load from a battery,and watch the battery voltage rising as it's running that load,i will be more than happy to throw such a device together-->I'll even throw in some ground rod's. Then i will give you first opportunity to purchase the worlds first COP>1 device.
Quote from: muDped on 2015.04.08, 23:52:34
As most of us are painfully aware, Science does have
limitations. Within the realm of "Overunity" its methods
have borne no fruit.
Most manifestations of anomalous energy have no
Scientific explanation and in fact come from a source
which Science is unable to deal with. Scientific
instruments are unable to measure it even though its
effects are plainly visible and often felt.
The vast majority are not ready to admit that the source
of this mysterious energy is from outside our physical realm.
In due time even the most stubborn will acquiesce to this
Truth. We are living in the age of Signs and Wonders which
will increase over the coming months and years. We will
witness events thought impossible.
muDped
With all due respect,could you point me in the direction of an example of this anomalous energy,as Duncan has failed on many occasions now to do so-->he keeps hiding behind glass windows.
Milehigh now seems to think that Clarence is on to something, and appears to have changed his tune a bit.
Milehigh now admits that Clarence's method has saved him 80% of his bills.
Funny world.
Quote from: Aking.21 on 2015.04.09, 05:04:00
Milehigh now seems to think that Clarence is on to something, and appears to have changed his tune a bit.
Milehigh now admits that Clarence's method has saved him 80% of his bills.
Funny world.
I think you got that a bit wrong. MH was quoting some one else-was he not>?
Well maybe, Its 6 am and I haven't gone to bed yet. Too busy experimenting .
I'll re -read his post after some sleep.
TinMan,
There are many examples of such manifestations within the
historical record. Virtually every "device" or "apparatus"
which was demonstrated and witnessed by observers to
actually produce anomalous energy but, mysteriously, could
not be replicated by others no matter how persistent their
efforts. One which has been the topic of recent discussion
is the TPU.
Of course, when one observes such phenomena one is first
inclined to look for means of fakery. And in some cases that
is indeed the case; the demonstration was cleverly faked to fool
the observers. But there are a number of demonstrations which
were not faked, which did manifest energy accomplishing some
work. Oddly, efforts to perform scientific measurement were
not able to verify the presence of known forms of energy in
most cases yet in others some evidence of electrical energy
was measured. In some cases there is evidence of extreme
cold with the formation of frost or ice in impossible locations.
The John Chang video linked by Duncan is a classic case of such
energy under impossible conditions. As are the Daniel Pomerleau
demonstrations. There is no rational scientific explanation for either
of those yet the effects are real.
What causes the energy to manifest and where does it come from?
There aren't too many options.
Then, when you see your first UFO perform impossible actions you
begin to consider extraordinary possiblities. Some of us have been
fortunate enough to witness multiple UFO manifestations in broad
daylight.
AC,
Your thoughts about our present world and the people who inhabit
it are salient. We find ourselves in unusal conditions at the moment;
conditions and circumstances which did not arise "naturally." We are
all being manipulated and controlled in devious ways by the "few" who
know the "secrets."
So AC my last few post have made you wonder and think ..how this may work .. Good .. That is The hypothesis stage !isn't it? You wonder why anyone would want to stop a project before it begins ? Flamiming flaming flaming .. yapping like corgi's around the ankles
How about because it might have credibility ? Despite a very determined effort to prevent any sort of development along the scientific path that's been pointed out to me I intend .. to try and follow it
It isn't enjoyable with your heels being snapped at but they are perhaps being snapped at for the reason suggested which is in its way encouraging.
So to the hypotheses , That means I have to transmit the idea I have to you who are reading .
I need you to understand my idea and help me to test it against any theories or knowledge you have in the area.
In short I ask you to please help test the validity of the theory . I am not writing in the capacity of a teacher or a guru Ive been on forum's long enough to know there are very clever people here many of who have gone out of their way to help me when asked. I need that help now to tear down what I'm going to write here examine it, and see if its feasible. Nodding donkeys and silence won't help me. The way an experiment should be carried out has been highlighted, will you help me try and do it the right way? I'm happy to try.. In order to transmit my hypotheses I propose to divide this machine and explain how and why each piece is tuned . I want to get across the general idea's first so you can grasp what is being done and why in the hope that you will freely help me test and refine. That being the case in this first outline when I talk of resonance for simplicity I will assume 'perfect resonance' although the books say that's impossible ( I'm not so sure) but still it is the idea I want to test not complex computation . (yet) There are (as I see it) four exceptional things happening here beyond the scope of accepted science and maths to get them all right by coincidence .. well its exceptional odds as you'll see! so there are four corners of this jigsaw each is worthy of a thread itself and like any jigsaw each corner needs the other three to present the whole picture. Even so the operation of each corner can be tested . I propose we start with the Battery.
Object ... To prove that a lead acid battery may be constantly energised using little or no 'real power'
I here use the term 'real power' in its accepted electrical position as watts if you are even slightly dubious about that please refresh yourself at this water hole http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_11/2.html
because without a comprehension nothing else will fit in this corner of the jig saw.
Apparatus ... your brain and an open mind prepared to try and thread the eye of a needle .
Method .. Just the battery then ! In theory A lead acid acid battery does not require energy to charge , if you purchase a battery the criteria is amp/ hours nothing else , ( If you need to, go and look at one)The idea it requires energy is fixated in your mind to such an extent its become ridiculous to question it ! Like Galileo Galileo 500 years ago please move the battery(in your mind) to the centre of the field of play. The battery is then the demodulator the surrounding apparatus only supplies copious magnetic current, if What I suggest here is right then you will have the keys to 'all' the cars in the car park . our ambition then would be to provide lots of amps to the battery but no real energy transfer The battery then effectively charges for free . You recall All Canadian was kind enough to describe that simple battery charger and resonance ? It was not the Resonance I had in mind.. he described the swing or the pendulum ( excuse .. I see some things as a picture) and sure its a resonance type, Its very pedestrian regular and always lossy, electrically its called parallel resonance however there is another resonance and its at play here , not the swing 'the whiplash' .. series resonance .. a very different animal,
Consider the simple battery charging circuit you commented on earlier AC I Introduced it for a good reason you could .. if you wished view that simply as a circuit .. being the battery and the bridge rectifier fed by A C and a series capacitor .. and why not ? That's what it is pretty much
(https://altencircuits.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/capacitive-charger.jpg?w=640&h=356)
since Power = VI cos Φ if cos Φ were to equal 0 no power would be available at the battery . (in this case the battery and the bridge rectifier)
This is the condition better known as resonance neither type of resonance consumes energy. there are two resonant points as explained one where the voltage lags the current by 90 deg and one where voltage leads the current by 90deg . One produces maximum impedance across the battery and so minimum current flow parallel resonance .. no use to us ! We want amps
The other resonance .. The whiplash, produces minimum impedance and so maximum current flow with no voltage content .. Wow this is what we want to accomplish
as we only require Current x Time to charge the battery and this is doing it with no energy in theory we are in clover ! Because there is no energy transfer there can't possibly be any heat generated
Hence the Iced battery I was lucky enough to see and which muDped has commented on.
Do the bits of the outline start to fit together boys and girls ? Please mull it over
There are obviously lots of rough edges and a further transition / modulation to consider and the battery itself has a constantly changing dielectric but as standard dogma and teaching goes this is the very edge of the Cliff . I would like you to think about the possibility of energising a Lead acid battery whilst holding a series resonant state. I intend to support this with possible test circuits and data which indicate it is so, meanwhile I would like your initial view on this corner if only to make a change from the constant yapping of corgi's who's one and only purpose is to disrupt , here is a picture of a machine with a huge COP >1 to be enjoyed.
http://www.interactivearchitecture.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Watermill_2.jpg (http://www.interactivearchitecture.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Watermill_2.jpg)
why when there is no machine to measure on this thread yet Idiot measurists keep marking in red COP>1 I can't imagine , (well I can but its a bit Dark.)
kind regards Duncan
.
Hmmm.. Tito L Oracion on overunity always maintains he's found the elusive "OU" secret but won't do an instructable, just hints.
So in desperation he said, "OK Just do this -".
http://www.johnsavesenergy.com/CapacitiveBatteryCharger.html#.VSZkx5CeYj9
Lends a lot of credibility to our Filipino Guru.
I don't often visit OU.com A.king and I was not aware of this gent or thread . still that is the link I posted earlier and reading that web page drove a point home for me.
independently .. it is only one corner and where the energy actually comes from is really interesting , please stay around as I try my best to unfold it for you
kind regards Duncan
Quote from: Aking.21 on 2015.04.09, 11:43:25
Hmmm.. Tito L Oracion on overunity always maintains he's found the elusive "OU" secret but won't do an instructable, just hints.
So in desperation he said, "OK Just do this -".
http://www.johnsavesenergy.com/CapacitiveBatteryCharger.html#.VSZkx5CeYj9
Lends a lot of credibility to our Filipino Guru.
A guy who "claims" he has found the secret to OU but won't prove it "ever, in any way" posts a link in desperation to a capacitive battery charger site.. and this lends credibility to his claims ?
Gimme a break.. what a load of cr@pola!
Quote from: evolvingape on 2015.04.09, 12:36:22
A guy who "claims" he has found the secret to OU but won't prove it "ever, in any way" posts a link in desperation to a capacitive battery charger site.. and this lends credibility to his claims ?
Gimme a break.. what a load of cr@pola!
He has posted hints for the last 4 or 5 years. The cumulative effect is the point I am making.
I have gone through each and every one of his posts and can understand his thinking.
He has also pointed me in some really interesting directions.
But I'm not getting into a debate with you.You are obviously better than me. Or so you think.
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.09, 12:04:40
I don't often visit OU.com A.king and I was not aware of this gent or thread . still that is the link I posted earlier and reading that web page drove a point home for me.
independently .. it is only one corner and where the energy actually comes from is really interesting , please stay around as I try my best to unfold it for you
kind regards Duncan
Duncan: I already got it Sir. I'm on message.
Tito is a teaser. And, believe me, I one hundred percent agree with him. Just look at the way you've been flamed.
I'd prefer any gems to be pm'd. That's the way a lot of us are doing stuff these days. And using Skype.
If we were an ordinary OU club ie physically meeting, as pre internet, we would not tolerate the irascible behaviour which is
prevalent on these threads. Some people cannot handle anonymity, and their true nature come out.
That's why I am loathed to post anything of value these days.
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.09, 09:58:31
So AC my last few post have made you wonder and think ..how this may work .. Good .. That is The hypothesis stage !isn't it? You wonder why anyone would want to stop a project before it begins ? Flamiming flaming flaming .. yapping like corgi's around the ankles
How about because it might have credibility ? Despite a very determined effort to prevent any sort of development along the scientific path that's been pointed out to me I intend .. to try and follow it
It isn't enjoyable with your heels being snapped at but they are perhaps being snapped at for the reason suggested which is in its way encouraging.
So to the hypotheses , That means I have to transmit the idea I have to you who are reading .
I need you to understand my idea and help me to test it against any theories or knowledge you have in the area.
In short I ask you to please help test the validity of the theory . I am not writing in the capacity of a teacher or a guru Ive been on forum's long enough to know there are very clever people here many of who have gone out of their way to help me when asked. I need that help now to tear down what I'm going to write here examine it, and see if its feasible. Nodding donkeys and silence won't help me. The way an experiment should be carried out has been highlighted, will you help me try and do it the right way? I'm happy to try.. In order to transmit my hypotheses I propose to divide this machine and explain how and why each piece is tuned . I want to get across the general idea's first so you can grasp what is being done and why in the hope that you will freely help me test and refine. That being the case in this first outline when I talk of resonance for simplicity I will assume 'perfect resonance' although the books say that's impossible ( I'm not so sure) but still it is the idea I want to test not complex computation . (yet) There are (as I see it) four exceptional things happening here beyond the scope of accepted science and maths to get them all right by coincidence .. well its exceptional odds as you'll see! so there are four corners of this jigsaw each is worthy of a thread itself and like any jigsaw each corner needs the other three to present the whole picture. Even so the operation of each corner can be tested . I propose we start with the Battery.
Object ... To prove that a lead acid battery may be constantly energised using little or no 'real power'
I here use the term 'real power' in its accepted electrical position as watts if you are even slightly dubious about that please refresh yourself at this water hole http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_11/2.html
because without a comprehension nothing else will fit in this corner of the jig saw.
Apparatus ... your brain and an open mind prepared to try and thread the eye of a needle .
Method .. Just the battery then ! In theory A lead acid acid battery does not require energy to charge , if you purchase a battery the criteria is amp/ hours nothing else , ( If you need to, go and look at one)The idea it requires energy is fixated in your mind to such an extent its become ridiculous to question it ! Like Galileo Galileo 500 years ago please move the battery(in your mind) to the centre of the field of play. The battery is then the demodulator the surrounding apparatus only supplies copious magnetic current, if What I suggest here is right then you will have the keys to 'all' the cars in the car park . our ambition then would be to provide lots of amps to the battery but no real energy transfer The battery then effectively charges for free . You recall All Canadian was kind enough to describe that simple battery charger and resonance ? It was not the Resonance I had in mind.. he described the swing or the pendulum ( excuse .. I see some things as a picture) and sure its a resonance type, Its very pedestrian regular and always lossy, electrically its called parallel resonance however there is another resonance and its at play here , not the swing 'the whiplash' .. series resonance .. a very different animal,
Consider the simple battery charging circuit you commented on earlier AC I Introduced it for a good reason you could .. if you wished view that simply as a circuit .. being the battery and the bridge rectifier fed by A C and a series capacitor .. and why not ? That's what it is pretty much
(https://altencircuits.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/capacitive-charger.jpg?w=640&h=356)
since Power = VI cos Φ if cos Φ were to equal 0 no power would be available at the battery . (in this case the battery and the bridge rectifier)
This is the condition better known as resonance neither type of resonance consumes energy. there are two resonant points as explained one where the voltage lags the current by 90 deg and one where voltage leads the current by 90deg . One produces maximum impedance across the battery and so minimum current flow parallel resonance .. no use to us ! We want amps
The other resonance .. The whiplash, produces minimum impedance and so maximum current flow with no voltage content .. Wow this is what we want to accomplish
as we only require Current x Time to charge the battery and this is doing it with no energy in theory we are in clover ! Because there is no energy transfer there can't possibly be any heat generated
Hence the Iced battery I was lucky enough to see and which muDped has commented on.
Do the bits of the outline start to fit together boys and girls ? Please mull it over
There are obviously lots of rough edges and a further transition / modulation to consider and the battery itself has a constantly changing dielectric but as standard dogma and teaching goes this is the very edge of the Cliff . I would like you to think about the possibility of energising a Lead acid battery whilst holding a series resonant state. I intend to support this with possible test circuits and data which indicate it is so, meanwhile I would like your initial view on this corner if only to make a change from the constant yapping of corgi's who's one and only purpose is to disrupt ,
http://www.interactivearchitecture.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Watermill_2.jpg (http://www.interactivearchitecture.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Watermill_2.jpg)
why when there is no machine to measure on this thread yet Idiot measurists keep marking in red COP>1 I can't imagine , (well I can but its a bit Dark.)
kind regards Duncan
.
You have lost the plot Duncan.
Quote
here is a picture of a machine with a huge COP >1 to be enjoyed.
http://www.interactivearchitecture.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Watermill_2.jpg
That so called COP>1 device is powered by the sun--> a known energy source.
So thats it?,thats one of your COP>1 devices :D
Sorry,but no it's not COP>1 at all,BUT it is a free energy device.
So now i am going to put your other device together as described-->yes,i am going to listen and try without any more measurement request,or highlighted COP>1 claims. Lets see if your on track here with the above setup. It seems quite simple,and quite easy to tune. I have many cap's of various sizes,so we should be able to get this thing up and running sweet O0.
Now,a little more info is needed,like-do i place a load on the battery while it's charging so as i can get an idea of P/in and P/load?,or whats the deal here?. It is going to be very hard to know what is going on if we dont do some sort of measurements as were going here. Is it OK to use a lower voltage than mains voltage,as we are 240 over here,and it has a nasty bite. Im thinking along the lines of a 240- 32 volt transformer. The transformer draws around 26 watts at idle,so if i can keep it at that and able to charge the battery at the same time,then i think maybe that would show some merrit,and a cause to look into it further-->dont you?.
RE Duncan's device.
Whenever mains is involved in my experiments I always use an inverter.
Measure the start voltage on the battery, then put a known load on it for 15 seconds measuring the on load voltage.
Then I wait a few minutes for the battery to recover.
Then I do the experiment.
After the experiment I wait at least an hour. Then I measure the battery voltage and repeat the on load test.
(Measuring the two voltages of course)
That way you have a pretty good idea if you are going in the right direction.
It's not perfect and probably won't detect cop 1.1, but if there is anything major -- and you will see it.
Hi A.king that resonant point is very sharp and of course as the battery conditions change the electrolyte (dielectric) changes that immediately alters resonant frequency I don't have the nous to build a system to track the resonant position automatically still here is a web site that caught my attention which although not on the button got near and is considering the next move to track resonance , strange with those impressive charge numbers he didn't think of the energy side of things. anyway . I couldn't find it on the www anymore but had it on disk , I have converted to pdf and hosted it so you can see it although things might not be to scale I hope you get the drift
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b1/max.pdf (http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b1/max.pdf) nb the resonance meter
kind regards Duncan
Quote from: Aking.21 on 2015.04.09, 13:12:32
He has posted hints for the last 4 or 5 years. The cumulative effect is the point I am making.
I have gone through each and every one of his posts and can understand his thinking.
He has also pointed me in some really interesting directions.
But I'm not getting into a debate with you.You are obviously better than me. Or so you think.
I will reply to you later Mr anonymous King! I have to get control of my laughter first before I can type properly again ;D
It sounds glib 'charge the battery at resonance' and of course the basic electrical formula as I have portrayed works. obviously every battery is different and even then any particular battery changes and so of course its resonant frequency changes.
At one time the fact that a battery could be resonant at all was denied or at least only half believed
you'll see in this article that the resonant point of a lead acid battery can be expected to be between 2 and 6 Mhz on the battery you see me running up to resonance it happened to be 2.8 Mhz luckily just under the limit of my generator. This again a dissapeared web page which I have hosted as a pdf so again I hope the scale works for you guys
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b6/2010-05-26_000648_desulfator.pdf (http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b6/2010-05-26_000648_desulfator.pdf)
kind regards Duncan
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.09, 15:55:18
It sounds glib 'charge the battery at resonance' and of course the basic electrical formula as I have portrayed works. obviously every battery is different and even then any particular battery changes and so of course its resonant frequency changes.
At one time the fact that a battery could be resonant at all was denied or at least only half believed
you'll see in this article that the resonant point of a lead acid battery can be expected to be between 2 and 6 Mhz on the battery you see me running up to resonance it happened to be 2.8 Mhz luckily just under the limit of my generator. This again a dissapeared web page which I have hosted as a pdf so again I hope the scale works for you guys
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b6/2010-05-26_000648_desulfator.pdf (http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b6/2010-05-26_000648_desulfator.pdf)
kind regards Duncan
Duncan
How can you charge the battery at a resonant frequency with the cap charging sustem,as the frequency is set by the mains frequency-in my case 50HZ x 2=100HZ.
Anyway,i have put the cap charge circuit together as i stated,and i think your going to want to watch the video when i get it uploaded.I will post it here.
At this point in time,i am not sure what to make of it,and i have left it running so as i can get a look at things in a couple of hours.
This may be one time that measurements are in your favour,and i also may owe you an apology O0
It's looking good ATM,but we will see in a couple of hour's.
Chet,if you read this-ring me.
tinman its a very simple example I wanted folks to grasp the idea , the input frequency is fixed by the mains at 50 hz but its a series circuit regulated by the size of the capacitance, the varying state of the battery and /or the input frequency. In the one I tried I had a switched bank of motor run capacitors much as shown in 'John saves energy' and a pretty large Russian variable vacuum cap that I used to peak the thing . I'm glad your giving her a go anyway but I wouldn't expect anything spectacular yet as the sums show resonance is key. If you read the 'john saves energy' thing you'll see he cranks towards resonance at one point lots of amps but in theory no energy transfer, I tried it with an crystalized ebike battery Its a horrid feeling knowing there's lots of amps going in there and it really should explode but it doesn't , It pops and sizzles and jumps back into life. I still had the thing behind plexi glass ! the way electronics guys and power guys are taught resonance is different electricians are taught a capacitor causes a 90 deg phase shift .. and that's it! so any circuit with any capacitor becomes resonant does it ? Its still taught that way
kind regards Duncan
Duncan
The fellow with the three battery system that use to post at OU.com and went to energetic
is this a similar effect ?
I am not remembering his handle/name ATM
?
Dave ? Bolens
**Thanx Duncan O0
sigh ...I don't think the Tinman is gonna get much sleep tonight [already tomorrow by him]
thx
Chet
Duncan
Your circuit is a good start but for much more serious principle - in fact the msot basic one.I hope will start to investigate it soon but it's so simple thus overlooked by everybody. In simple terms , this is so crazy that many will throw it out immediately and I must confess I did the same when years ago I saw a device which partially uncover this principle.
It goes that way ... Faraday induction law set and equal and opposite field force , having equal and opposite (almost) energy , completely separate from the energy in the originator part (like electromagnet or permanent magnet). Lenz law fools us completly but when the noise is removed and we learn how to use Lenz law we can create amost indefinitely energy in secondary circuit from the same circuilating energy in primary originator. Barbosa & Leal tried to patent this idea.
O0
Chet the guy you think of is David Bowling nice guy, I stayed with him for a while in the US he lives in San Jose now I think . If line of sight is correct I believe every COP machine works from this source . Its why I asked readers to focus on the battery and forget the various machines. The 3 BGS worked .. of course it did and I strongly suspected resonance was the key.I didn't have the nous then to make a circuit to track the changing resonance . perhaps an aduino or such but I don't have much in the way of programming skills. but as I said its only one corner of the jigsaw.
Duncan
was good to chat. yes David Bowling's and his 3 battery charger, as I recall he found that the load did not matter [with in reason]
and his claim was outlandish ....to the masses .
well seems Like The Wizard in Oz has it goin on.... :o
forest thanks for the encouragement but please.. don't get to hopeful Its early days and what I cobbled together needs confirming.. anyway parts of this seem to do some odd things including allowing telekinesis it seemed at one stage .I also stated that magnetic current was the driver and I'm going to have some struggle to explain that! It isn't taught and there's no units, all I have is a rough picture in my head. It also puts the longitudinal wave centre stage. I'll give it some thought though and see if I can't come up with a description folks can understand. As you say forest it seems so bloody stupid simple . even basic year one electrical work says it should happen yet no one tried it
Kind regards Duncan
Ah man-15 minutes of typing gone again >:(
OK-try again.
The system has been running for over an hour now,so here is some quick results.
I have used a 12 amp hour battery that is not very healthy. This is so i can see the results a lot quicker than 12 hours.
The system
I am using a 240-32 volt transformer for safety reasons.
At idle(no circuit hooked up)the transformer uses around 25.5 watts.
The watt meter reads a power factor of 19 without the circuit hooked up. With the circuit hooked up and charging the battery,the power factor reads 20. With the circuit hooked up charging the battery,i get an increase of .3 watts on the watt meter.Using my V and A meters,i get .28 watts going to the battery. If we take into account the FWBR and power being dissipated in the CVR,then all things add up equal.
The scope. The CVR is a 1 ohm 20watt resistor. With the circuit hooked up i get 6.4mV RMS across the CVR. The voltage across the transformer at this time is 31.2VRMS.
The load placed on the battery is a 20 watt automotive incandescent bulb. When the load (bulb) is hooked up to the battery,there is no change at the watt meter or the scope-->everything remains the same-including the phase angle. The battery voltage started at 9.11 volts(very flat),and after 1/2 hour settled at 9.2V. The current being drawn from the battery is 1.445 amps-These are DC measurements. 9.2v x 1.445 amps is 13.294. This has been steady for the past 1/2 hour.
So here we have a situation where we can place a continuous load of 13.294 watts on the battery,while absolutely no reflection is shown at either the watt meter or scope-none what so ever.
So how is it we can draw over 13 watts from a reactive power circuit,and show only a .3 watt reflection in total? :o
Here is the first video of many to come. Will be trying different caps tomorrow,but im going to let it run over night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKC4fX3XOp4
I told you I'm sure I know why it does it you only have one corner of the jigsaw so far, ;Believe it or not tinman I think we had a squabble over it years ago on energetics only the case then was 'armature reaction' which I see as doing the same thing or perhaps it was someone else I was taught armature reaction is an overtone composite and so I believe is series resonance . I was taught with old books and I couldn't find reference to it and so couldn't make my view prevail . tinman I don't want you to get bent out of shape again but you will not be able to measure what is energising that battery! not with any equipment you have anyway. I only tell you this so you don't knock your pan out unnecessarily. also as you lose resonance as the battery alters you'll lose the effect (unless you bring it back into resonance) . view it if you like as a radio drifting off its station, because that's really exactly what it is. scopes , DVMs frequency analysers anything you have they all will fail here It isn't that it can't be measured its rather that we do not have the equipment for this dimension and I mean that in its mathematical sense. regard it as magnetic current (if you want) or chi or reactive power.
kind regards Duncan
Tinman, why stop the device ? I think you should have used a battery in good condition, but increase the load if you want. I've had an oldish gell cell battery that increased in voltage after use because of sulfation. Suchayo made a video of the effect of a battery seemingly low in voltage "come to life after a short use', he loaded the battery with a small filament bulb and at first the battery voltage dropped and the light was dim but after some time maybe 30 seconds the battery voltage jumped up to over 12 volts and the light was brilliantly bright. After disconnection I think the battery voltage remained higher.
Why not let it run for some days ?
A sulfated battery can hold significant energy that can be "locked up" in the sulfation, then unlocked with some load. I'll try to find the Sucahyo video again.
I think it was that effect that Turion has seen with his 3BGS....BS.
My next action would be to use a good battery and measure the in to out at the battery.
..
Quote from: Farmhand on 2015.04.09, 20:28:19
Tinman, why stop the device ? I think you should have used a battery in good condition, but increase the load if you want. I've had an oldish gell cell battery that increased in voltage after use because of sulfation. Suchayo made a video of the effect of a battery seemingly low in voltage "come to life after a short use', he loaded the battery with a small filament bulb and at first the battery voltage dropped and the light was dim but after some time maybe 30 seconds the battery voltage jumped up to over 12 volts and the light was brilliantly bright. After disconnection I think the battery voltage remained higher.
Why not let it run for some days ?
A sulfated battery can hold significant energy that can be "locked up" in the sulfation, then unlocked with some load. I'll try to find the Sucahyo video again.
I think it was that effect that Turion has seen with his 3BGS....BS.
My next action would be to use a good battery and measure the in to out at the battery.
..
My thoughts exactly.. batteries are tricky things.. been here before..
There was a guy a few years back doing this and claimed he could charge his kids go kart over and over again, cannot remember the details which is why I cannot find them to post. :(
Progress is being made in this thread in some respects though so I am quite happy at this point with the way the project is progressing. Thanks to Tinman for taking the time to look into it! O0
Lot's of facts and measurements and tests and then analyse the results and draw conclusions. Then repeat.. ad nauseum until you are sure you had what you thought you had before the facts and measurements and tests began..
Tinman: Can't resist this comment:
YOU WAIT YEARS FOR AN OU DEVICE, THEN TWO TURN UP ON THE SAME DAY!
Typical buses. lol
@ Duncan and Tinman,
I have a couple questions for you if I may,
1) What happens to the phase difference after the AC is FWR and fed to the battery which is very similar to a capacitor?
2) How can you have resonance with DC, what is resonating with the battery which is an AC condition?
Quote from: TinMan on 2015.04.09, 18:20:00
Ah man-15 minutes of typing gone again >:(
Brad,
May I suggest if it is possible for you, try typing up your response in wordpad or notepad, then when ready paste it into the forum reply. If it fails, you still have a copy on your computer. I do this when making lengthy replies, as I've learned over the years this is a good practice.
Quote from: poynt99 on 2015.04.09, 23:03:16
Brad,
May I suggest if it is possible for you, try typing up your response in wordpad or notepad, then when ready paste it into the forum reply. If it fails, you still have a copy on your computer. I do this when making lengthy replies, as I've learned over the years this is a good practice.
This is what I do because of the same problems you have experienced Brad. I also have a mouse with thumb buttons that allow you to browse web pages back and forward by clicking rather than using the arrows on the browser, this can be incredibly frustrating when you accidentally click the back button on the mouse after having completed a long post draft.. In my case it is not always the technology I can blame :-[
Quote from: poynt99 on 2015.04.09, 23:03:16
Brad,
May I suggest if it is possible for you, try typing up your response in wordpad or notepad, then when ready paste it into the forum reply. If it fails, you still have a copy on your computer. I do this when making lengthy replies, as I've learned over the years this is a good practice.
What i do now is right click on the mouse,copy,and if my reply dosnt go through,i just reply again and right click ,paste O0.
It seems that if some one has made a reply while im typing,is when it dosnt go through. I actually have to scroll back down,and push the post button again.
All sorted now.
Quote from: evolvingape on 2015.04.09, 21:18:19
My thoughts exactly.. batteries are tricky things.. been here before..
There was a guy a few years back doing this and claimed he could charge his kids go kart over and over again, cannot remember the details which is why I cannot find them to post. :(
Progress is being made in this thread in some respects though so I am quite happy at this point with the way the project is progressing. Thanks to Tinman for taking the time to look into it! O0
Lot's of facts and measurements and tests and then analyse the results and draw conclusions. Then repeat.. ad nauseum until you are sure you had what you thought you had before the facts and measurements and tests began..
EA and Farmhand.
As you may or may not know,i9 am well aware of the battery effect. I have made several video's about this effect-even a rise in temperature will cause the battery voltage to rise.
But this is different,and i believe that this sweet spot that Duncan is talking about is around 9.1-9.2 volts on this battery im using. I can fully charge it(it dose hold some charge-just capacity is down),and the voltage will drop to that 9.1 volts after some time when the load is connected. I then done a deep drain on the battery down to 7 volt's,and let sit for 1/2 hour. It settled at 7.4 volts. When hooking back up to this charger,it slowly rises to that 9.1 volts and stays there-for 2 hours so far :o. Were talking 12 watts of power being drawn from the battery,and yet only the same .3 watts shown on the watt meter and the scope also remains unchanged-the watt meter and scope are simply not seeing this load-regardless of what the battery is doing.
So i will make this as clear as i can.
.3 watt increase on the watt meter when circuit is connected,and no load on the battery .28 watts measured coming from circuit ,going to battery. This leaves .02 watts being dissipated by the 1 ohm CVR and FWBR diode's-->this part adds up. BUT,when the 13 watt load is connected,there is absolutely no change in either the watt meter(including power factor),or the scope. The watt meter may be fooled by reactive power measurements(but seem very consistant),but the scope cannot be fooled.
I have to drive up to our capital today to pick up the son in-law from the airport,but i will leave the device running while I'm gone,and see how things look when i get back in around 8 hours.
Cheers guys. O0
OK Tinman, I hear ya, if you can't find an explanation soon then I will try to make a replication as close to your specs as I can, as time allows, never look a gift horse in the mouth I say, unless it's made of wood. ;) I've got a couple of old and abused gell cells to use.
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tinman Losing posts ! So much writing wiped out ... annoying to say the least ! I'm not saying 'do this' but I do .. because writing is very difficult for me . Bring up your scribbling software be it MS word, open office or whatever and write your post on it. If you have pictures or links include the links.
With a little space.
Work with the word processor until your happy with what you write and want to show. Save your work regularly , When you are finished simply copy and paste to the OUR dialog box.
Wherever the links or pictures might be simply highlight them and click the icon .
Preview of course & if your happy send it !
If that should fail or as sometimes happens when the OUR dialog box freaks out your are only a click or two from putting every thing right and rubbing it better. It might seem the obvious way to go but people seem to have an absolute determination to miss the blatantly obvious and then snap and growl when someone points it out to save frustration. Get into the habit above and you probably won't lose anymore posts .I also find that some times (not always) it stops me writing something rash and silly. There are things that are obvious to you I cant see for instance how to get a youtube link onto the post with the screen .. Its not essential and like everyone else I don't like looking even more stupid is absolutely necessary so I have never asked
That's a bit long winded for something simple, It what I do hope it helps and saves frustration
Kind regards Duncan
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.10, 05:41:49
tinman Losing posts ! So much writing wiped out ... annoying to say the least ! I'm not saying 'do this' but I do .. because writing is very difficult for me . Bring up your scribbling software be it MS word, open office or whatever and write your post on it. If you have pictures or links include the links.
With a little space.
Work with the word processor until your happy with what you write and want to show. Save your work regularly , When you are finished simply copy and paste to the OUR dialog box.
Wherever the links or pictures might be simply highlight them and click the icon .
Preview of course & if your happy send it !
If that should fail or as sometimes happens when the OUR dialog box freaks out your are only a click or two from putting every thing right and rubbing it better. It might seem the obvious way to go but people seem to have an absolute determination to miss the blatantly obvious and then snap and growl when someone points it out to save frustration. Get into the habit above and you probably won't lose anymore posts .I also find that some times (not always) it stops me writing something rash and silly. There are things that are obvious to you I cant see for instance how to get a youtube link onto the post with the screen .. Its not essential and like everyone else I don't like looking even more stupid is absolutely necessary so I have never asked
That's a bit long winded for something simple, It what I do hope it helps and saves frustration
Kind regards Duncan
Cheers Duncan-i got it sorted now.
Anyway,i not long got back,and the system has been running for around six hours straight now,and the battery voltage has not dropped-->this is while running the 13 watt load. The watt meter is still only reading a .3 watt increase,and the scope values remain the same--Nothing has changed in over 5 hours :o
Man i wish i had a variac,so as i could get rid of the big beefy transformer-->I'm just not keen on doing this at mains voltages after my electrical shock some months ago :-[
So next I'm going to move the CVR on the output side of the FWBR,and take some readings there as well. I do have a plan to see what the battery is doing in way of magnetic field's,and that will be done today as well. I will post a video ASAP once these test are done.
At this point in time ,i feel as though i owe Duncan an apology,as it would seem at this stage that i CANNOT measure this power source with the equipment i have-->but i have a few more ways to try yet.
So Duncan-i formally apologise.
Brad
So won't it work with a good battery ? Or have you not tried that yet ?
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EDIT: I see your measurement details and I might try to make a drawing tonight to see if I get your drift.
Edit 2: I see the recent video link is for a different video. Any chance of naming the video's so we know which link is for which video ?
Cheers.
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Quote from: Farmhand on 2015.04.10, 07:26:02
So won't it work with a good battery ? Or have you not tried that yet ?
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EDIT: I see your measurement details and I might try to make a drawing tonight to see if I get your drift.
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I will draw up the circuit and component values right now,and post it here.
here is my current test setup. I forgot to put in the watt meter which of course is before the transformer.
There is no need for apologies official or otherwise from anyone much I was invited into this family that is a forum , families argue thratch squabble and fight and bugger off sometimes.. its what they do ! Its a bit painful and it hurts sometimes but would you have it any other way?.
Its bigger than that anyway! Even the opposition are family, they are human beings too ! (ish)
I am pleased that so far its as predicted. There are a lot more horses in the stable that need a gallop!
Press on with your measurist activity I know it has to be done ... the sooner the better
Kind Regards Duncan
Without wanting to suggest I know best I want what you are doing to be a success and without trying to explain exactly why ... not because I don't want to but because its extremely difficult .. (I am trying) , I offer these suggestions for you and just a rough outline of why .
As pointed out by tinman ,dollard and me the very action of a transformer is totally unknown like a lot of things we cling to what we think should happen ! The shorted turn TK spoke of .. its classic teaching , good as far as it goes except we know for certain it isn't right. Its been cobbled together to look right. Its been stitched together so it seems like energy comes from a generator.
So your watt meter where should it be ? The generator ? Your house meter ? Substation ? The low voltage side of that transformer is much more preferable.
Farmhand ponders on using a good battery ... my knowledge of chemistry is woeful but I have come to regard lead acid batteries as being in various stages of crystallisation a nice healthy battery not much. A sulphated battery loads and loads of lovely crystals .
Make them resonate and they produce energy . It is not .. but it is very close to piezo – electric
but of course in a different dimention just as the electro magnetic wave is in a different dimention to volts and amps . Which is why you cannot measure it..
The energy is manifesting itself instantaneously in the crystal structure . The primary source ? magnetic current from the ground probably known to you as VARs .. hence the earth rods! help greatly . But its magnetic current It will go through anything . even Granit hey Grummage
kind regards Duncan
Quote from: TinMan on 2015.04.10, 00:26:53
EA and Farmhand.
As you may or may not know,i9 am well aware of the battery effect. I have made several video's about this effect-even a rise in temperature will cause the battery voltage to rise.
But this is different,and i believe that this sweet spot that Duncan is talking about is around 9.1-9.2 volts on this battery im using. I can fully charge it(it dose hold some charge-just capacity is down),and the voltage will drop to that 9.1 volts after some time when the load is connected. I then done a deep drain on the battery down to 7 volt's,and let sit for 1/2 hour. It settled at 7.4 volts. When hooking back up to this charger,it slowly rises to that 9.1 volts and stays there-for 2 hours so far :o. Were talking 12 watts of power being drawn from the battery,and yet only the same .3 watts shown on the watt meter and the scope also remains unchanged-the watt meter and scope are simply not seeing this load-regardless of what the battery is doing.
So i will make this as clear as i can.
.3 watt increase on the watt meter when circuit is connected,and no load on the battery .28 watts measured coming from circuit ,going to battery. This leaves .02 watts being dissipated by the 1 ohm CVR and FWBR diode's-->this part adds up. BUT,when the 13 watt load is connected,there is absolutely no change in either the watt meter(including power factor),or the scope. The watt meter may be fooled by reactive power measurements(but seem very consistant),but the scope cannot be fooled.
I have to drive up to our capital today to pick up the son in-law from the airport,but i will leave the device running while I'm gone,and see how things look when i get back in around 8 hours.
Cheers guys. O0
Hi Tinman,
I know your well aware of the battery effect Farmhand and myself mentioned, the comment was primarily for the public reading this thread. Forewarned is forearmed and if the public has this knowledge widely disseminated and understood it will help prevent scams and a waste of everyone's time when it pops up next.
Here is an interesting link on battery plate surface charge / discharge phenomena:
http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/surf_chg.html
You are using a lead acid battery correct ? I cannot find if you said this or not ?? If you are using a lead acid and Farmhand chooses to replicate also using a Gel cell that will be an interesting comparison.
I would also at this stage be interested to see what happens with a larger load, if you have a load that is double your current 12 Watts that would be interesting data to see.
I would like to congratulate Duncan on having the balls to actually offer up his presumed COP>1 system to be tested by accurate measurement, if the apparent anomaly persists I am sure many more will begin testing and analysing the results looking for the explanation. If none can be found after everything imaginable has been tried then the anomaly, if shown to be able to do work beyond the energy it has available to do that work, may be a breakthrough.
Below is a couple of scope shots on one of the test i have carried out so far. The first thing i noted was the 100mV difference across the 3 ohm resistor on the rectified output side. Due to the now 6 ohm resistance in the circuit before the battery,i have had to raise the UF cap value to 24uF. Seems for every ohm resistance in the circuit,you need to add another 4uf of capacitance.
The voltage in the battery dose drop and settel at around 7.4 volts with this added resistance in the system. It seems that we are still dissipating 10 watts of power through the globe,but the 1 watt 3 ohm resistors remain cold-->cold as the work bench top. How we can put 10 watts of power through a 1 watt resistor and not have it get at least a little warm-im not sure?. ???
The transformer temperature remains a constant 52.2*C with or without the circuit in operation. With the extra capacitance,the watt meter now shows an increase of around 1.5 watts when the circuit is connected-->this is due to the voltage and current phase angle decreasing to around 70%. But none the less,the 1.5 watt increase is maintaining the 10 watt load,and has been for the last 4 hours-->the battery voltage has remained constant.
This system seems to show the strongest effect when there is very little resistance in the circuit,as the results showed yesterday before the addition of the extra 5 ohms of resistance.
I am now going to swap the battery out with a heavily sulphated battery of large size. This is to eliminate the possibility that the transformation of sulphide within the battery is not the cause of the !apparent! extra energy. If this next battery shows a stronger effect,then that is something we may have to look into.
Tinman: Do you have a way of running your setup from a battery and inverter?
That would put the test on a higher level.
I'll let other forum members suggest the next step. O0
resistance effects the Q factor making sharp resonance curve difficult (I assumed) .. Its a very difficult point to hold (for me anyway) as the video shows. I think it really needs a control loop.
kind regards Duncan
Tinman, I measured "just from memory" and with my Tanked up HF setup coupled to another Ferrite Yolk transformer, about an amp through a small globe rated for 12 v and 3 Watts, Ohms law says that would mean 0.25 amp max, I think. But does it ? The globe being considered a resistive load. But is it ? When I made that measurement it was AC at HF and I measured a phase difference between voltage and current, the calculations told me "again from memory" that the bulb was dissipating less than 3 Watts of power. Not sure if I have a video clip of that, maybe you remember it on OU.com. The bulb was lit pretty good "from memory"
I think the phase difference was real but likely off a bit and I think the current was close too, I think from memory the voltage was about 7 volts AC. I was convinced the bulb was passing current that did not contribute to the power dissipation. After all it was at about 400 kHz and the bulb has some uH inductance. I've got that setup all fitted up with high quality HF CSR's, and will get back to that later.
Anyway, this arrangement looks very simple and I should be able to replicate it close enough, I have two 7 amp hour SLA's with about 20 % or less capacity, and also one that is I think in better condition but is still quite sulfated.
I think I have a multitap E core transformer that steps down to 32 volts, or a higher power rated toroid with dual 12 volt outputs, I have a variac if there is something you want me to specifically try at some voltage, found a High power FWBR, I got plenty of caps ( I found the ammo box full of caps I lost, I'm stoked bout that) O0.
I've got two different killawatt meters one has a much better resolution for Watts.
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I only have one missing part that I should have but I cannot find the 21 Watt Auto globe. I had the 5 watt Tail and 21 watt Stop light in one globe type with wires already soldered on it, bit miffed. I'll nip into town in the morning and grab some.
Cheers
Oh P.S. The globe is getting warm isn't it ? I can't see you mention it.
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Brad,
Did you ever sort out whether your scope can do power measurements? i.e. can it do multiplication and averaging?
Also, you should be measuring your AC power on the output side of the transformer, not the input, to get a true indication if the circuit uses more power when the load is connected vs. not connected. The fact that your transformer uses 25W of power at idle should have set off warning bells for you. The AC measurement on the input side is rubbish in this case because of that. Take your measurement on the output side of the transformer (AC power) and I am certain you will see where the 13W of power is coming from.
The efficiency of that transformer is fooling you ATM.
Quote from: poynt99 on 2015.04.10, 12:25:41
Brad,
Did you ever sort out whether your scope can do power measurements? i.e. can it do multiplication and averaging?
Also, you should be measuring your AC power on the output side of the transformer, not the input, to get a true indication if the circuit uses more power when the load is connected vs. not connected. The fact that your transformer uses 25W of power at idle should have set off warning bells for you. The AC measurement on the input side is rubbish in this case because of that. Take your measurement on the output side of the transformer (AC power) and I am certain you will see where the 13W of power is coming from.
The efficiency of that transformer is fooling you ATM.
Im not to worried about the watt meter at this point in time. I have the scope after the transformer,and i dont think i can put that watt meter after the transformer?-or can i?. I have used my DMMs after the transformer,and they gave me the exact same amount as the watt meter showed.
I have not been able to find the scopes power measurement function. I can find the math trace,and where to x ch1 and ch2,but i cant find the value of the two.
Poynt, I think Tinman is measuring the AC voltage across the cap and the secondary and the current is measured after the cap at the output of the transformer, I think the CSR should be on the transformer side of the series cap and the voltage measured across the transformer output as well before the series cap.
I think that's how I would do it, I would probably use two CSR's one on each side of the cap, just to see the difference.
I don't know if I have any 1 Ohm CSR's.
EDIT: had to edit the first line for clarity. sorry.
Quote from: Farmhand on 2015.04.10, 12:01:41
Tinman, I measured "just from memory" and with my Tanked up HF setup coupled to another Ferrite Yolk transformer, about an amp through a small globe rated for 12 v and 3 Watts, Ohms law says that would mean 0.25 amp max, I think. But does it ? The globe being considered a resistive load. But is it ? When I made that measurement it was AC at HF and I measured a phase difference between voltage and current, the calculations told me "again from memory" that the bulb was dissipating less than 3 Watts of power. Not sure if I have a video clip of that, maybe you remember it on OU.com. The bulb was lit pretty good "from memory"
I think the phase difference was real but likely off a bit and I think the current was close too, I think from memory the voltage was about 7 volts AC. I was convinced the bulb was passing current that did not contribute to the power dissipation. After all it was at about 400 kHz and the bulb has some uH inductance. I've got that setup all fitted up with high quality HF CSR's, and will get back to that later.
Anyway, this arrangement looks very simple and I should be able to replicate it close enough, I have two 7 amp hour SLA's with about 20 % or less capacity, and also one that is I think in better condition but is still quite sulfated.
I think I have a multitap E core transformer that steps down to 32 volts, or a higher power rated toroid with dual 12 volt outputs, I have a variac if there is something you want me to specifically try at some voltage, found a High power FWBR, I got plenty of caps ( I found the ammo box full of caps I lost, I'm stoked bout that) O0.
I've got two different killawatt meters one has a much better resolution for Watts.
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I only have one missing part that I should have but I cannot find the 21 Watt Auto globe. I had the 5 watt Tail and 21 watt Stop light in one globe type with wires already soldered on it, bit miffed. I'll nip into town in the morning and grab some.
Cheers
Oh P.S. The globe is getting warm isn't it ? I can't see you mention it.
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As the globe is running of a pure DC source,then it is VxI=watts. In an AC situation,the globes do have slight inductance due to the coiled filament,but i wouldn't think that would upset anything to much in the way of power measurements. And of course the resistance climbs as the globe gets hotter-more current passed through it.
I really need a variac,as that's one thing that has been missing in my workshop. Will have to wait for the next youtube cheque lol,as I'm not working ATM,and must be a little careful with spending O0
This might be how science should be carried out and I kinda know that your going to have to measure measure measure. Until you excrete it from your system. Or at least decide there's something here you do not comprehend ... that's ok I had to and I know I might be wrong, better men than me have been.
You'll have to excuse my lack of scientific rigour I am no scientist I am an engineer trained in three disciplines . Heavy power high voltage grids , electrical engineering ,HF/UHF Radio Transceiver repair. Meaning no disrespect all my training has been directed at making something work that has failed. The science of how I have made it work is usually fitted together as a mental exercise later.
It is the lot of we who have lived and breathed electricity all our lives that we each 'know it all' including me! I think its because deep down we are painfully aware we know very little of this mysterious stuff and cling tenaciously to the laws and basic principles we have been taught.
We defend like a tiger our volts and amps and power factor. What else after all do we have ? Yet when asked what is electricity .. ?
This area of resonance and particularly series resonance has been taught to me four times in four different engineering environments . Power grids .. VLF radio antenna systems , PF correction at LV baud rates and data transmission. I am also a some time radio ham so I guess you can add UHF to that . In each of those disciplines the teaching, outcome, and results of series resonance are entirely different. The odd thing is as an engineer you simply compact the information into boxes related to the job in hand. It takes a deal of focus to apply something taught forty years ago related to a power grid, heterodyne it with Radio theory sprinkle that with a bit of electrical engineering and then make it work ... That's far from the hardest bit ! This silly capacitor thing is in a nut shell the very simplest way I could think of to engage with you. It is only the tip of a totally different dimension. This however isn't voodoo Its there ,Its real, its engineer-able , its natural and its e'lectric but it is not electricity.
Let me give you an example so you might grasp , If I were to put you in my time machine and spin the wheel to say 1850 most of the maths and science you are familiar with is in place, you have your precious ohm in fact you could visit the old boy if you wanted to and your Germans any good..
You could measure amps,volts,and KW and be in very happy accord . Ecstatic that you both agree
with the answer that you expect to see . KW in KW out stuff 'Great' so you do the same thing over and over ... cause your a measurist and measuring makes you cum in your pants! ;D
Then along comes a mean old grump (like me) and sticks an antenna and ground on the end of your equipment and tunes it resonant ... and says well Georg where's all your bloody Kws gone now ? The irascible German would be at a loss and not very pleased that his life's work and theories had just gone up in smoke. Well not smoke , the electromagnetic wave really!
Its easy for you to understand now because you have been taught its true and its supposed to happen . Not so Georg. He'd be astounded .
Well there's another wave , the electrostatic wave ! The crystals in your battery are receiving and demodulating it . The battery itself is an antenna ! 'Read that as'... for the electromagnetic wave use parallel resonance and for the electrostatic ground wave use series resonance.
Your now in Tesla wireless land and the longitudinal wave (you receiving it loud and clear) and can see why it was snubbed out... free energy wasn't on the agenda
kind regards Duncan
PS I loaded this I found the simple view of the LA battery helped me http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b5/battery%20resonance.pdf (http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b5/battery%20resonance.pdf)
Yep I don't dispute the bulb power, it should be warm too. I'm a bit confused as to how it should be measured on the transformer output which could be considered as the input to the circuit is all. I know I've messed around with series caps in the HF setup as well and got some seemingly odd measurements at some times, that setup has a pure DC input so I knew the input power was very close to what the instruments measured with that.
I was wondering how come you got an almost square wave there in the second scope shot ?
Something might be interesting to try is I have this box I made to control the Tesla coil, if I select "On" and "Precharge" I can power the transformer with the 8.8 uF of caps in Series with the transformer primary.
Ah shucks I just can't help myself for all my promise of scientific rigour, what do we make of this guy boys and girls ? Flame on!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLvXaOJAH1Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLvXaOJAH1Y)
Fractal antenna and quartz,well we know a fellow in Australia who has a device running on an Odd antenna for years and years .
However
Do we know that speaker ?? [missing some tattoo's maybe ??]
TinMan , Find some quartz to try out the rest of the experiment....
Quote from: Farmhand on 2015.04.10, 13:24:19
Yep I don't dispute the bulb power, it should be warm too. I'm a bit confused as to how it should be measured on the transformer output which could be considered as the input to the circuit is all. I know I've messed around with series caps in the HF setup as well and got some seemingly odd measurements at some times, that setup has a pure DC input so I knew the input power was very close to what the instruments measured with that.
I was wondering how come you got an almost square wave there in the second scope shot ?
Something might be interesting to try is I have this box I made to control the Tesla coil, if I select "On" and "Precharge" I can power the transformer with the 8.8 uF of caps in Series with the transformer primary.
The square wave is due to phase shift and the FWBR. It is more noticable with the 3 ohm 1 watt resisters.
ah Hi Ramset yeah quartz is a factor Methinks ... I bless you guys for hitting it with all you have ! Ground one side of the battery if you can ...the thicker the wire the better there's lots of amps to fit even if you can't feel or measure them (like Clarence and many earth rods) if you have quartz to hand .. (that crushed stuff for pet reptiles) .. coil a copper wire in it and use it as an antenna on the other side of the battery.
You would be following Clarence's Instinct also ! He obviously knew about Quartz so does Basher or nasher or whatever his name is ! Anyway good friends its a belting day here and I've decided its beer garden time , Pub O'clock so I'll leave you in peace to fettle and wrestle with the bits
kind regards Duncan
Well who wants the bad new's?
I just watch my battery that has been sitting stedy at around 7.4 volt's for the past 12 odd hours,die a horrible death. It went from 7.44 volt's down to 5 in like 5 minute's-and it's still dropping fast :'(. So it now seems that although the battery had very little capacity at it's rated voltage,it had a lot of capacity at 1/2 it's rated voltage-and then it let go with a fast drop.
Im going to leave it for another hour,and see how it look's,but i expect it will fall to a level that is equal to the watts in shown by the watt meter.
Well I set up the 240 to dual 12 volt outputs step down transformer and put about a 1 Ohm resistor ( it's a 0.58 and a 0.33 in series, I'm waiting for the meter batteries to charge to get an accurate resistance value) and put a 14 uF capacitor after that, I made it so I can swap out the CSR and Cap and change the order of the components in line, this gives me input to the FWBR. However with 240 volt input when I run it open circuit the setup only draws 3.4 Watts with no load at PF 0.43. If I use the variac as well as the transformer the input at no load goes up to about double or so same PF but I can raise the output voltage to 28 volts or so.
I guess I can try a load resistor and battery after I have a peek at the wave forms.
Now I've set it up I may as well at least tickle a battery with it and have a look at some stuff.
Cheers
P.S. A healthy Lead acid battery hits a wall at about 10.7 volts or so I think, that takes some time to get through.
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At this point in time,i feel as though the battery voltage will continue to drop until the load and input become equal.
this is why it pays to do tests over a long period of time,as the truth always prevails. O0
Somehow I think there will be more to this story...
But I do hope the sun is shining when you wake up tomorrow... O0
would be nice to clear the head on the race course ....
and helicopter flight school :D [I have a SCARRY story there myself ,MUCH bigger copter]
OK so I used 240 volts input to the killaWatt meter then variac then still set 240 volts on the variac, then the 240 to 24 volt step down transformer I put the CSR on the output of the 24 volts AC then the 14 uF capacitor, I just swapped the cap and CSR position to Tinmans drawing. The rest is the same except I used no other load than the battery. The load was detected/reflected in the input meter reading.
Edit: there was about 0.15 amp at 13 volts to the battery, almost 2 watts.
The first shot is scoped the voltage across the transformer in yellow and the voltage across the CSR in blue. No inverted channel.
The second shot is with the voltage scoped across the cap and the current the same as the first. No inverted channel.
If you look closely the second shot shows an almost symmetrical Math trace. No net power. But the first shot shows all one side of the 0 volt line. Math trace is in purple and small.
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Well it appears that my posts have been blocked by some members here, that's too bad.
I really don't want to rain on anyone's parade but I have to speak up, this is an old and very common transformerless step down supply circuit. One I have designed with years ago, and a number of times, it can be found in many books. It works great to reduce the power consumed by step down circuits with minimal parts count and expense. as an example I used it to run a LED off 120VAC mains power.
If you calculate it, a dropping resistor to give 20ma at 120V is 6000 ohms, 120V x .020A = 2.4 watts, big waste of power for an LED and a 3 watt resistor is needed for it. By using this circuit with a few small and cheap parts you can reduce the power dissipation down to about 1/4 watt, with no transformer involved. I will gladly post the schematic if anyone is interested.
After the AC is rectified and turned into DC there is no longer any phase difference, DC does not have a phase (unless you are talking 2 separate DC pulses). so you are applying DC power to the battery, the most you will see on the battery is a small bump at 120 HZ barely rising above the battery level. Common and ordinary battery charging from the FWBR.
Others have addressed the low increase in primary side power with the load. All the power is coming from the input, when you put a load across a charging battery the load is powered by the input until it becomes greater then the energy charging the battery at which point the battery begins supplying power to the load.
And as for resonance it's DC I don't see any kind of resonance here.
I am sorry and like I said I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade I do appreciate all you have been doing, I think you guys are great and I don't mean any of this badly, but there is no overunity, extra energy or magic here.
The first piece of your puzzle is not overunity or cop>1 or anything else, I sincerely hope the rest of the puzzle fares better.
Room
A comment on Blocking your posts here?
are you describing the same "lost post" scenario that others are complaining about here?
they go to post and its all gone ...?
just curious
Chet K
Hey Duncan
I was thinking about the experiments being performed here and I'm not sure I get it. You posted a simple circuit consisting of a grid connection, a series capacitor, a FWBR and a 12v battery. It was claimed that a resonance occurs between the battery and the other circuit elements in this configuration.
So why is everyone using a transformer, why is everyone placing a load across the battery which would obviously kill any and all supposed resonance immediately and why bother taking measurements when the experiments shown are designed to fail?. I mean I could do no better to effectively kill the claimed effects than what I have seen to date. It's like trying to bake a cake and changing all the ingredients... Flour I don't need no stinking flour I will just use corn starch. Eggs I don't need no stinking eggs I will just use lard instead. What happened to my cake because I followed the directions and it turned out all wrong, lol.
As I said I don't get it, I mean it simply boggles the mind :D
AC
The battery is receiving pulsed DC. Yes there is no smoothing cap, you can see the DC lumps are clipped by the battery in the second shot, looks like to me.
No one is disputing the power to the light bulb. Tinman was managing to get no or very low power transfer to the battery from the transformer or he measured the voltage incorrectly and as can be seen by the scope shots the way I measured it shows a net input of power while the other shows close to no power transfer, one is wrong and one is likely correct.
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P.S. If you take too long the time out will log you off and so you can click back on the browser and copy the post text to the clipboard then re sing in and paste the post back in and it will work. I think we can adjust the log out time out here. It happens to me both here and on other sites. I just copy the post to the clipboard automatically so if the post fails I can just paste it again and it's all good. And of course it only happens with big posts so it's really a pain when it happens.
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Quote from: Chet K on 2015.04.10, 16:55:12
Room
A comment on Blocking your posts here?
are you describing the same "lost post" scenario that others are complaining about here?
they go to post and its all gone ...?
just curious
Chet K
Hi Chet,
Thank you for asking, but no I am not having any trouble posting, I was talking about people that have me filtered out so they don't even see my post's.
Room
I didn't know you could do that here....
I personally have never done that anywhere.
AC
TinMan switched to the Mains in the last few hours prior to it settling at around 5V and is still running it that way now..
however any and all suggestions are good at this point
Respectfully
Chet K
Quote from: Chet K on 2015.04.10, 17:18:45
Room
I didn't know you could do that here....
I personally have never done that anywhere.
I don't know either, I just assumed being my post with questions was ignored, I've never blocked anyone myself.
Quote from: Room3327 on 2015.04.10, 17:40:30
I don't know either, I just assumed being my post with questions was ignored, I've never blocked anyone myself.
Dear Room3327.
You're not the only one !! ;)
I would like to apologise for my lack input but as Chet knows I have had some serious domestic issues to deal with so have just been looking in occasionally, I'm glad the knives are back in the kitchen draw and look forward to some interesting results.
I managed to get out today and acquire a knackered motorcycle battery from my old employer with a view to trying Duncan's de sulphating exercise. I do have a 4 A Variac and a variety of non polarised cap's. Are we suggesting applying 240 V ac to a 12 V battery ?? :D
Or do we knock up a 240 V rated battery bank ?
Cheers Grum.
AC, There would be no real difference in the results with or without the transformer. And I was replicating what Tinman did. Duncan happened to think what tinman did was was good anyway.
All power seems pretty much accounted for in my experiment and everything looked normal to me. I had no load except the battery.
Can you suggest the correct size capacitor for the battery or something.
Even if resonance was at play the results would still be under unity for in to out.
You can show different if you like.
..
No Grum, to use the line voltage you need the correct amount of batteries in series I think. I don't have that many batteries. :(
.
We have 120 here
fellows charge Banks of batteries [thru a big Diode ] here all the time.
also we don't have any laws [as Farmhand mentioned] on forcing people to use GFI [his RCD??]
in the shops or outbuildings, as a matter of fact you can wire YOUR OWN home anyway you chose here.
just don't expect insurance to feel the same way if you file a claim [crazy lawsuit happy lawyers keep things in check here]
or hurt someone [or yourself]
to be clear building codes apply when your getting paid to do a job or file for a permit,and in those cases
anyplace around water needs GFI [Ground fault interrupter]
although I am quite certain GFI manufacturers are feverishly trying to mandate compliance as in other countries.
Chet K
Hey Chet
QuoteTinMan switched to the Mains in the last few hours prior to it settling at around 5V and is still running it that way now..
however any and all suggestions are good at this point
I was going to set up last night but watched the news, had a few beers then went into rant mode, lol.
I think I may know exactly what is going on which may also explain why the claimed effect is such a hit and miss proposition. Same old thing...it's always got to be the hard way. In any case I'm going to setup tonight and take some scope shots then see if I can't auto-sync the circuit.
AC
Quote from: Farmhand on 2015.04.10, 17:01:23
The battery is receiving pulsed DC. Yes there is no smoothing cap, you can see the DC lumps are clipped by the battery in the second shot, looks like to me.
No one is disputing the power to the light bulb. Tinman was managing to get no or very low power transfer to the battery from the transformer or he measured the voltage incorrectly and as can be seen by the scope shots the way I measured it shows a net input of power while the other shows close to no power transfer, one is wrong and one is likely correct.
..
P.S. If you take too long the time out will log you off and so you can click back on the browser and copy the post text to the clipboard then re sing in and paste the post back in and it will work. I think we can adjust the log out time out here. It happens to me both here and on other sites. I just copy the post to the clipboard automatically so if the post fails I can just paste it again and it's all good. And of course it only happens with big posts so it's really a pain when it happens.
..
Yes without a smoothing cap the battery will recieve pulsed DC, that is the whole point of a smoothing cap. I have in the past run flouresents off a 12v LA battery being charged by HV through a FWBR with no smoothing cap, frequency at the battery was around 3khz, surprised me at the time, I now know better. You can even use HV and HF using two plates on the outside of your battery for charging, that way your input does not see the output return to the source battery O0
AC
I go along with you totally, if you move the goal posts the results will not be the same, a replication is
exactly a replication
regards
Mike 8)
Hey Farmhand
QuoteAC, There would be no real difference in the results with or without the transformer. And I was replicating what Tinman did. Duncan happened to think what tinman did was was good anyway.
All power seems pretty much accounted for in my experiment and everything looked normal to me. I had no load except the battery.
Can you suggest the correct size capacitor for the battery or something.
Even if resonance was at play the results would still be under unity for in to out.
You can show different if you like.
I believe this may relate to some experiments I was doing a while back. We know a standard AC induction motor is synced to the AC source and if the motor runs faster than grid frequency it becomes an induction generator... simple enough. However if we chop the AC grid signal into an intermittent DC signal to the motor then something truly bizarre may occur. The motor inductance may couple with the pole transformer inductance in series using the line capacitance. Thus the motor inductance may operate at a harmonic of the grid frequency ie LCL, which means it may also jump into generator mode at a drastically lower frequency. An AC induction generator tied to the grid running at ridiculously low RPM but generating full power.
You see it's always the little things we never expected which gets us, the things we never could have imagined because we have ignored everything exterior to our circuits we thought did not matter. Little things matter as does the big picture in my opinion.
AC
OK so who is replicating what that is my question and what do you guys think Tinman was replicating and what do you guys think I was replicating ?
A lot of condemning but no details of the charges. Please clarify.
I was replicating what Tinman was doing and I had no 21 Watt bulb so I just did the test and showed the measurement two ways, if the voltage is scoped on the load side of the capacitor both the amplitude and the phase are different.
As it turns out Tinmans effect ran out so all is said and done. No more replicating is warranted by me now anyway.
The capacitive charger circuit was not claimed to be OU, Duncan thought it might be, but I think not.
If you can show some OU then do it. I dare you to claim some OU here.
..
@ Farmhand
I measured current both before and after the cap. If V&I are measured befor the cap,you get no phase difference,if I is measured after the cap,then you get the phase difference.If we measure V&I on the DC side,we see an inphase relationship. This is ofcourse the power avaliable from your math trace shot.
This test was carried out as per the diagram supplied by Duncan. The last 8 hours has been via way of main.s voltage-no transformer.
But first with the transformer.
We had a supply voltage of around 32V from the transformer,and we had a 4uF cap in series with the output and FWBR. The reactance of a 4uF capacitor at 50Hz is 1/(2*pi*f*C),so that is around 796 ohms. 32/796 is a current of 40mA. So our battery was being trickle charged with close to 1 watt-how ever our watt meter showed around a .3 watt increase-->but the power factor was also a far cry from one due to the transformer. There is also the dissipated power in the resistors to be taken into account,along with the FWBR diode's. We must also take into account the battery voltage and internal resistance of the unhealthy battery. So all things being equal,the .3 watt increase shown on the meter is very close to correct,and this was confirmed with my DMM's
Due to the high internal resistance of the battery,i was able to use mains voltage in the setup without causing to much havoc. The current used when using mains voltage comes down to the size of your cap. If you are going to use mains on a healthy battery that would have an internal resistance of around .6 ohms,then i recommend you start with a 1uF cap,and work your way up in cap value. Remember as TK pointed out,flooded led acid batteries give of hydrogen gas when charging,so good ventilation is a must-->and make sure all connections(including battery terminals) are well insulated for high voltage applications.
The reason for this simple test was to see if any anomalies were seen. What was found is that although a battery in bad condition may not hold a good charge at it's rated voltage,can hold a very good charge at around half it's rated voltage-as has been seen over the last two days.This is a first for me,as a bad or heavily sulphated battery will deliver some current for a short time at it's rated voltage,and then die very fast all the way down to 0 volt's. In this case,i have a 12 volt battery that drop's off rapidly when a load is applied,but is good for 6-7 volts for some time-->two days in this case with a 12 watt load.
The end result after two days of testing is as expected. We are now supplying the battery with 2.1 watts from the mains,and the load output(glob) has settled at exactly 2.1 watts-->it's actually close to 2 watts dissipated power through the globe,so i would expect some small loss in the system,like heating of the battery,cap losses,etc.
Conclusion:
Everything going into the system is accounted for,and no anonymous effects have been seen other than a battery effect.
Brad, forgive me, but I thought you said before that the load was dissipating 12 or 13W, now you're saying it is dissipating only 2.1W?
And are you now able to explain the next to no difference in input power with and without the load?
Quote from: poynt99 on 2015.04.11, 00:52:37
Brad, forgive me, but I thought you said before that the load was dissipating 12 or 13W, now you're saying it is dissipating only 2.1W?
And are you now able to explain the next to no difference in input power with and without the load?
Poynt
Did you read the last post i posted?,i thought that explained it very clearly O0.
The battery had a very large (unexpected )capacity at half it's rated voltage. So all in all,the battery was supplying the power to the load for nearly two day's,and then last night in a matter of minutes,the battery died a quick death.
As i stated in my last post,the battery voltage settled to a voltage where the supplied power to the load(light bulb ) equal's the supplied input power of the watt meter-->all P/in and P/out is accounted for O0
There is no special effect happening with this system.
@ Poynt
I should explain a little more why i spent the last two days testing a device that we assumed was nothing special. If you recall,you spent a lot of time with me on a device that i thought had something special going on within it. And as you know,after weeks(as expected by you) there was no anomalies effects going on. Duncan seemed to think that this simple setup would show some sort of anomaly,so i did as you did with me-spent some time on it,and showing why long testing and measurements are important.
The reason we couldn't measure the supposedly extra output,was because we couldn't know or see what the battery was doing. My assumption was(through past experience with sulphated batteries) that if the voltage dropped fast from its rated voltage when a load was applied,then it would continue to drop of rapidly right down to 0 volts-with that load applied(as i have seen time and time again).
Here is where the confusion started. Without the circuit running,and the load was applied to the battery,the battery did drop off quite fast. My mistake was only letting it drop down to around 9 volt's with load attached,thinking that it would continue to drop down to nothing at the same rate. So i disconnected the load,and hooked up the cap charging circuit,then reapplied the load. I then found it odd that the battery would drop to around 8-9 volt's and then stop there with the circuit hooked up. After many hours of drawing 12-13 watts from the battery,and only supplying it with .3-.5 watt's,i started to think that there may actually be something interesting going on here. At this point in time ,i had no idea that the battery(unlike other times) had the ability to maintain that output for such a length of time at 8 to 9 volts.
As has been seen in this test,it took two days for the battery to drop off with that load attached. And it dropped over 4 volts in a matter of minute's-->i actually caught this drop on video. I have never seen a battery maintain that output for so long and then drop off so rapidly. This was more of something you see with nicad's,not lead acid batteries.
Anyway,after two days of testing,we have our answer-->and that is,all is as we expected other than this new found battery effect-->well new to me anyway-and only with this battery. I tried another quick test with another sulphated battery of the same size and type this morning,and it dropped steadily from 12.2 volts right down until the load reached the input supplied power from the cap charger. This only took around 15 minute's to happen.
Well half a dozen beers and a Chinese take a way .. life is blessed!
Don't panic there is nothing unexpected . What you are seeing is just what I did.
If it was as simple as throwing a capacitor in front of a battery every one would have had free energy long long ago. Folks have been charging batteries like that for a 100 years if not more.
I asked you not to get your hopes up prematurely and explained that this was a strong indication of what is required . And its proved so. I needed your help and attention with this hypothoses that is just a step forward to show that 'there is something of merit' worthy of your time and trouble, (which I thank you very much for ). I would like you to think this ' If this thing works I want to know how and why it works I want to be able to engineer it'
There is no point trying to build something that isn't understood at all ! You have seen that it can work, that it might be possible thats all ! Ready to move on ? >>>>
Tptb are well aware of the situation it is my belief lead acid batteries have been altered over the years and as you are discovering its extremely difficult to hold any battery on its resonant point .
I need help with that myself because I don't know how to write a control loop. Anyway regadless
AC and others are questioning resonance quite right . Do you recall I said the subject was taught differently to each trade? I didn't mean wrongly just differently? The technologies have been intentionally split in order to prevent the dots being easily joined together. Effectively 'a need to know basis' consider this ... ask any electrician what a capacitor does in a circuit the reply will instantly be "It causes a 90deg phase shift" ask any electronics guy what a 90 deg phase shift causes
the reply instantly will be resonance. Ask any radio guy if a capacitor means its at resonance he'll think your a lunatic ! They are taught a much deeper understanding of what resonance is, 'Its need to know' and its a bit they need to know better than other trades to tune an antenna's. amoungst other things.
Your quite bright boys and girls does it sound right to you if I expand that 90deg stuff your watching and say "a capacitor of any size in any circuit will make it resonant " Its outrageous put like that but really all electricians need is basic theory so they know how to phase shift for motors and understand basic power factor its sufficient for what's required of them! (need to know)
Its all they are taught and perhaps you reading this too !
Lets move that a rung up the ladder , when using this circuit how were you checking for resonance?
With your oscilloscope of course you can see a 90 deg phase shift, The books say there should be a 90 deg phase shift, you expect a 90 deg phase shift But here's the big question and one that carries us from one trade skill set to another ... Is that actually resonance ????
To massage your thoughts what your looking at on the oscilloscope has little relationship to whats actually happening. I afraid its another case of a measurists tool that isn't 'fit for purpose' compounded by the idea that a 90 deg phase shift means resonance. Nothing remotely like!!
I try to show you just a little something of my Hypothesis and it does what I said it would .
Then it stopped. I knew it would , If it was a radio (and it is in a way)I would tell you its drifted off tune.
I hope there's a radio ham reading this who might like to answer this simple question in a way that would advance everyone why are linear amps very expensivoue compared to other amps?
Its my guess there would be fewer HT grid guys reading this. And of course the very last thing they want is resonance In fact the opposite but the composition of 'dirty power' also has a big part to play . This term 'Resonance' we need to all understand more about it. And understand each other
The use of a capacitor is ' In the ball park' and it give's an indication but its nothing.. nothing at all like what I see as true resonance
Kind regards Duncan
Hey Grum .. sorry to hear things are not so good :( I hope it turns around for you! I'm a bit dubious writing about 240v regarding this rustic set up, I mean its ok for the likes of you and forum members who know what they are about but many others read and Its potentially a killer isn't it ?
I suppose crossing the road is too if you don't know what your doing ! So with the proviso of don't anybody do this ever !!! (in case the claim people get me) I did! 240 v with one 12v 12 amp/ hour battery bridge and motor run caps .
Plexi glass, goggles, gloves and a big stick .. cause I'm a scared y cat ! Keep in mind that if there's no discharge resistor on the cap and the batteries not connected the thing will be at mains potential even when unplugged ! It is pretty amazing to see (and hear) totally buggered batteries popping back into life . You also wonder about big banks of batteries .. Here's my take on that , Lead acid batteries require only two components to charge amps and time , using this circuit what difference one battery or twenty ? The same current will pass through each battery! There is no more energy required regardless of one ,ten, or twenty batteries.
And the energy that is required is zero anyway (if you assume true resonance) as I explained Grum Wiseman took it further but here's a guy doing a 120v battery bank to give you the idea
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJA6bHB9jgk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJA6bHB9jgk)
Wiseman takes it a step further than that which I'll describe also not for the faint hearted.. he uses a full bank of batteries 240v DC ! Because all are as one .. so to speak . He charges them all up together in series as you've just seen. Its quick and uses little power for reasons I've explained
George also has the benefit of 'off peak' So he does a quick near resonant charge at night
runs his house totally off the batteries all day, anything left in the batteries towards the end of the day he pumps back onto the grid, Then repeats the cycle . Each quarter the electric company have to pay him for the pleasure of running his home which probably pisses them off a tad ! You can read a bit about it if you want
http://www.eagle-research.com/cms/store/free-energy/reverse-your-electric-meter-legally (http://www.eagle-research.com/cms/store/free-energy/reverse-your-electric-meter-legally)
As I said there are lots of paths that merit their own thread under this one umbrella and this is another one,
whilst I whole heartedly encourage you to give it a go Grum because I know you've worked at HV and on PF et al
Still understand I am focused on Clarence s machine and used this system as a stepping stone to try and explain a tiny bit of one corner of a jigsaw. sure you can power your house for free like that right now but its not what your threads about is it ? Its about this machine.. Its actually really about Resonance ! Resonance between us all ! then understanding what it is electrically ,understanding the difference between series and parallel resonance, the make up of resonance, mathematically
when I say "series resonance" the picture in my head needs to be the same as the picture in everybody else's and it isn't ! Because of 'need to know' we are like a toddler sent to the shop for a packet of soap powder with only a vague idea of what soap powder is but not wanting to admit it. and then coming back with a packet of cornflakes. ... That's how close to resonance we seem to be
after all in this experiment if under method I say resonance and get cornflakes Its not going to be a great success is it ? And that certainly doesn't mean I have it all 'off pat' I don't but I think we need to interrogate each other a bit on this one subject which again could run it own thread "What exactly is resonance" ?
Kind Regards Duncan
All Canadian observed the transformer across the battery and of course he's perceptive I pulled up sharp at transformer anyway remember ? I wrote they do not work as you think they do !
I linked you to Chris Carson. If you consider energy entering the core externally as suggested by Leedskalnin however outrageous it may seem then the theory of the operation of the transformer becomes quite feasible.
Still regarding this exercise and this machine recall I pondered where you wished to measure the power ? The phase position is set at the first transformer one side of the transformer being obviously anti-phase to the other .. think of old transformer push pull outputs.
some one asked us to 'consider the whole circuit' It may make more sense to folks who know what a Balun does but the grid is a transmission line with standing waves and SWR like any other.
I only wanted to show you a taster so I was not really concerned but as resonance is key to success an infinite impedance feeder would be best, we can't have that so the greatest distance to the next transformer (substation) is the next best thing.
As I have pointed out I did this at 240v and I didn't like doing it over much! I'm just very grateful guys are trying it as best they can. and to do it in such a way they feel safe and comfortable is big for me! So if someone's uncomfortable with this agricultural circuit Its fine by me! I've worked around 11Kv live and I know Grum has too! But exploding batteries , capacitors , and live ends are not much fun if it all goes wrong , But it didn't
kind regards Duncan
Here is the final video and results on this setup.
thing to note about my watt meter. Power factor is normally between 0 and 1. With my watt meter you will see 01 to 99. 01 is 1 and 99 is 0,so the lower the number the better the power factor is-->closer to 1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pv7ecENsOk
Duncan: Will this work from an inverter?
Or are we messing with the power factor that the power companies are actually paying for?
Thank you tinman dying a fast ans horrible death ;D ;D yeah I killed quite a few myself ! It seems to be Internal heating that does them to the death !
I started putting thermistors on all sides at one time to prevent that happening . Of course the only thing that can possibly cause heat is energy and resonance consumes no energy. Ergo that battery was not resonant!.
Which has to happen sometime as its constantly changing conditions at the coal face.
Leave any battery on there like that and it will die. IMHO you had it to bang to rights when you said it was doing something out of the ordinary in the middle of your testing and you correctly said through that period you had no way of knowing what was happening inside the battery. Well its exactly that effect and that part of the charge curve that has my attention . I can see you have projects and idea's aplenty bubbling up ready to go ! Still I believe there is much more to see here yet! IMHO for a considerable time that battery delivered more energy than it received . You on the other hand think that energy must have been latent in the battery, because that's the only plausible explanation that makes sense But.
I'm not chasing plausible I'm hounding the extraordinary ! I think you've just had a very quick glimpse of it but I can't and dont blame you for not believing it..
The sums say it should happen, quite a few have seen it happen with batteries icing up I have only seen that once .. but once is enough!.Just for once this little bit is a case of engineering something to do exactly what the books say should happen.
I am going to pursue the hypotheses and try and open up the mystery of resonance inside the battery because I think its important to what Clarence is doing.
It probably doesn't seem like it to you as you've just watched a battery keel over which is never much fun but connected like that in that situation and run like that its inevitable. I have a picture of a old age pensioner being forced to do a marathon with a cattle prod. And when the poor old bugger falls down dead Ah he was no good!
I hope you keep reading what I write tinman and correct, inject , test or help in any way you can. I have a way to go and any constructive help is really appreciated much thanks
Kind regards Duncan.
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.11, 09:27:29
Thank you tinman dying a fast ans horrible death ;D ;D yeah I killed quite a few myself ! It seems to be Internal heating that does them to the death !
I started putting thermistors on all sides at one time to prevent that happening . Of course the only thing that can possibly cause heat is energy and resonance consumes no energy. Ergo that battery was not resonant!.
Which has to happen sometime as its constantly changing conditions at the coal face.
Leave any battery on there like that and it will die. IMHO you had it to bang to rights when you said it was doing something out of the ordinary in the middle of your testing and you correctly said through that period you had no way of knowing what was happening inside the battery. Well its exactly that effect and that part of the charge curve that has my attention . I can see you have projects and idea's aplenty bubbling up ready to go ! Still I believe there is much more to see here yet! IMHO for a considerable time that battery delivered more energy than it received . You on the other hand think that energy must have been latent in the battery, because that's the only plausible explanation that makes sense But.
I'm not chasing plausible I'm hounding the extraordinary ! I think you've just had a very quick glimpse of it but I can't and dont blame you for not believing it..
The sums say it should happen, quite a few have seen it happen with batteries icing up I have only seen that once .. but once is enough!.Just for once this little bit is a case of engineering something to do exactly what the books say should happen.
I am going to pursue the hypotheses and try and open up the mystery of resonance inside the battery because I think its important to what Clarence is doing.
It probably doesn't seem like it to you as you've just watched a battery keel over which is never much fun but connected like that in that situation and run like that its inevitable. I have a picture of a old age pensioner being forced to do a marathon with a cattle prod. And when the poor old bugger falls down dead Ah he was no good!
I hope you keep reading what I write tinman and correct, inject , test or help in any way you can. I have a way to go and any constructive help is really appreciated much thanks
Kind regards Duncan.
I will be more than happy to help in any way i can.
Cheers
Could it be that individual cells are going "offline" and that causes a stepping drop ? Like it drops from say 7.4 volts to 5.5 volts because another cell goes "offline". Being that the cells are not "equalized" some will still have charge when others deplete and the chemical action in the depleted cells maybe ceases, then in some cases it may start again for a while until the cell is completely depleted.
I know the battery was bad, but I would like to say that with healthy batteries to get the best from a Lead acid battery every now and then an "Equalizing" charge should be done. After an Equalizing charge the battery cells can be tested to see their individual "health" kind of thing.
If one cell is bad then the battery can give power for a little while at over 12 volts then drop down to 10 or 11 volts and stay there a long time.
Tinman, good work putting the hurt on that battery.
Quote from: Farmhand on 2015.04.11, 09:41:38
Could it be that individual cells are going "offline" and that causes a stepping drop ? Like it drops from say 7.4 volts to 5.5 volts because another cell goes "offline". Being that the cells are not "equalized" some will still have charge when others deplete and the chemical action in the depleted cells maybe ceases, then in some cases it may start again for a while until the cell is completely depleted.
I know the battery was bad, but I would like to say that with healthy batteries to get the best from a Lead acid battery every now and then an "Equalizing" charge should be done. After an Equalizing charge the battery cells can be tested to see their individual "health" kind of thing.
If one cell is bad then the battery can give power for a little while at over 12 volts then drop down to 10 or 11 volts and stay there a long time.
I think the voltage drop's and rises were a result of sulphide flakes falling or dissolving from the plates as battery temperature rose. This is why you see a voltage rise on batteries that are badly sulphated when a load is applied to them.
QuoteTinman, good work putting the hurt on that battery
.
I think putting the hurt on the battery may have actually done it good. It is now on a standard charger,and when first hooked up,it peg-ed the charger amp meter,and the charger had to cycle for 1/2 hour before it could remain on full time. It now has been taking 1.5 amps for the last 3 hour's O0 >before the test it wouldn't take any more that 80 to 100mA,and then the charge would drop off as soon as disconnected from the charger.
We may have a good pulse charging /reconditioning system at the very least O0
Yep a complete discharge can also "Equalize" a batteries cells. I would say that more than one thing was going on in there.
A full discharge is a last resort for a lead acid battery, but for NiCad's it is the norm.
..
Aking your concern for the power companies is quite touching and I assume your thinking of the already operating system of Georges where he already runs his house for free and is in fact paid by the power company?
The first thing to acknowledge is if your using any reactive current you are at best introducing capacitive load which the grid desperately requires they should be paying you for raising the power factor quite apart from anything else
If you are thinking of Clarence s machine for that to work (as I see it ) It needs two text book pukka formulas to be engineered to work one is P =VI cos φ and the other that LA batteries require Amps x hours and yes the current will be reactive . The whole globe has thousands of amps circulating naturally all the time it is reactive current AKA magnetic current . The shit we get from the grid also de-grades into magnetic current sometimes quite huge circulating in the neutral and earth ( which is pretty much one and the same connection) .. research triplins if your interested
So it brings up the question of who owns these huge natural circulating currents ? Moray used them and had to travel miles away from power stations or radio transmitters to run his machine even so the power companies still tried to insist he was stealing power. Just as folks are saying Clarance is
(he isn't) yes the theory says it should run on an inverter . It also uses reactive current AKA Magnetic current avaliable for free in copious ammounts . Magnetic current is natural it is the planets battery . The stuff we use is a horrid abortion! You got taught this at primary school didn't you ?
1. Einstein — 'Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another
there's not a watt more or less than ever there has been ! It changes to Magnetic current and then by slight of hand we pay for the same energy over and over again . Who owns and controls magnetic current ? Who owns the air , the sea and the rain ?
Tinman: I was going to suggest that you charge the battery normally. I have most of John Debini's videos and he shows this very same effect in one of them.
He talks about electron holes being created in the battery and by recharging it normally (with a bit of a struggle) he perfectly reconditions it.
So there's a prediction for ya.
Duncan: I don't have any sympathy for the power companies lol. It's staying out of jail that concerns me.
Selfish as usual I guess.
Quote from: Aking.21 on 2015.04.11, 12:12:05
Tinman: I was going to suggest that you charge the battery normally. I have most of John Debini's videos and he shows this very same effect in one of them.
He talks about electron holes being created in the battery and by recharging it normally (with a bit of a struggle) he perfectly reconditions it.
So there's a prediction for ya.
Already done--battery is fully charged now. So will let sit for an hour,and do a load rundown test on it. Hudini doesn't know much about the things he dose. Battery plates start with a flat surface,and over time,these plates form a sulphide layer on them,and capacity drop's. The high voltage high current pulses do to the sulphide layer what a sand blaster dose to rust on a metal plate-it cleans the sulphide lay off. The trick is to know when to stop,as like you would with the sand blaster,if you keep on blasting you eventually blow holes in the plates. Battery capacity can actually be increase slightly this way,as the plates end up having more surface area when the surface is pitted insted of smooth-thus actually increasing active plate surface area of each battery plate-but only a slight increase.
Well David has seen more than his fair share of Super long run times with no true explanation.
One thing which jumps out at "me" is in an odd way these hard to reproduce claims are also happening with the
Cold fusion guys and hydrogen....and if you follow the latest MO from almost all the cold fusion groups
nano cracks or shapes which cause the hydrogen great stress [they get beat up and trapped in them]
are the the source of excess energy .
here is a recent comment from David B
I have restored dozens of batteries to working condition using the 3BGs, so I am well aware that batteries can be brought back to life from a sulfated condition. That is one of the pain in the butt aspects of this thing. It restores batteries I want to stay bad, because when they were 'bad" I was getting excess energy. I have said that many, many times if you bother to read through the thread.
Over 20 people who have replicated the 3BGS over the years have gotten their 3 batteries to run loads that have exceeded the available amp hours of their batteries by several times and at the end of such runs, in MANY cases, the batteries were still fully charged. In some cases the primaries had gone down, but they had still exceeded the energy available by several times. In a few cases, the loads which should have exhausted that available energy in a matter of hours ran for as long as three weeks. Then it quit for no reason. In over eight years of testing I have had such runs myself on a several occasions. I have put eight years into this, and I have a pretty good idea of how long a 7.5 amp hour battery will will run an inverter with a 100 watt bulb attached. Unless you see this for yourself, I do not expect you to believe it, which is why I began this thread in the first place. Having serious doubts is your right. You are absolutely right to be skeptical.
In the interest of honesty I should also disclose that MANY people have seen absolutely nothing when they put together this setup. But in those cases I have to wonder if they followed the step by step directions in Post #1 and got the RIGHT dead battery. If they didn't, I wouldn't EXPECT them to get any results.
from here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/10610-3-battery-generating-system.html
Dear All.
I found the battery that was last used some 7 years ago on my " you know who " Cole motor. It has lain untouched under the bench and just showed a Volt!! ( 12 v 7 ah Gel cell )
Transformer used is a Toroidal 240/12/12 V Secondaries in series into a standard 50 A FWBR.
This battery would never achieve 12 v no matter how I tried to charge it. Well, this system works!! Coming up on 24 hrs I have now got 12.2 v and it can drive a 21 W incandescent happily!! ( Not done prolonged test yet, to come later )
An interesting point is that my plug in watt meter is showing 2 W transformer idle and 3.1W total with 11 microfarad series capacitance, Unity PF. If I disconnect the battery the PF falls to 0.8 Lag.
What are your thoughts as regards the PF correction through the transformer?
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Grumage on 2015.04.11, 15:04:27
Dear All.
I found the battery that was last used some 7 years ago on my " you know who " Cole motor. It has lain untouched under the bench and just showed a Volt!! ( 12 v 7 ah Gel cell )
Transformer used is a Toroidal 240/12/12 V Secondaries in series into a standard 50 A FWBR.
This battery would never achieve 12 v no matter how I tried to charge it. Well, this system works!! Coming up on 24 hrs I have now got 12.2 v and it can drive a 21 W incandescent happily!! ( Not done prolonged test yet, to come later )
An interesting point is that my plug in watt meter is showing 2 W transformer idle and 3.1W total with 11 microfarad series capacitance, Unity PF. If I disconnect the battery the PF falls to 0.8 Lag.
What are your thoughts as regards the PF correction through the transformer?
Cheers Grum.
This setup dose make for a good charger,and seems my battery is very usable. I have done a quick load test,drawing about 15 watts,and the battery is holding up well so far. It was complete junk before the 2 day hammering it got. As for the power factor thing,well 0 is bad and 1 is good i believe. My meter has an odd power factor reading in that 01 is 1 and 99 is 0. So the inductive load will throw your power factor out a bit,and the cap may just be pulling it back in?-->IDK,maybe Poynt or ION could help out here,as i would like to know as well,so as experimental data is correct.
Dear TinMan.
Just to be clear my Wattmeter appears to be calibrated in deg's. 100 being unity. So with the battery disconnected I was seeing 0.8 deg lag.
Cheers Grum.
The series cap acts as a power restriction because only so much power can transferred with each half cycle. the bigger the cap the more power can be passed, the capacitor also prevents from short circuit so if two caps are used one in each line then even if one shorts the other will still prevent a catastrophe.
I would suggest a fuse just in case if leaving the setup unattended. Otherwise what happens if the cap fails shorted ?
One of my Killa watt meters reads in real power in watts as well as shows the power factor, the other one doesn't show any power factor but reads in real power watts with more resolution. I realize you guys already know how your meters read but some people might take the real watts and apply the power factor to it. Maybe some meters read VA and give power factor not sure, anythings possible. My one that shows power factor reads 100 as a power factor of 1. and so forth..
Anyway, I've said for a long time that a big part of desulfating a battery is discharging it as well as charging it, as long as some charge can be trickled into the battery somehow and then discharge it it will eventually rejuvenate. Some ways are much faster than others and some more efficient some not so hard on the battery.
Quote from: Farmhand on 2015.04.11, 16:34:03
The series cap acts as a power restriction because only so much power can transferred with each half cycle. the bigger the cap the more power can be passed, the capacitor also prevents from short circuit so if two caps are used one in each line then even if one shorts the other will still prevent a catastrophe.
I would suggest a fuse just in case if leaving the setup unattended. Otherwise what happens if the cap fails shorted ?
One of my Killa watt meters reads in real power in watts as well as shows the power factor, the other one doesn't show any power factor but reads in real power watts with more resolution. I realize you guys already know how your meters read but some people might take the real watts and apply the power factor to it. Maybe some meters read VA and give power factor not sure, anythings possible. My one that shows power factor reads 100 as a power factor of 1. and so forth..
Anyway, I've said for a long time that a big part of desulfating a battery is discharging it as well as charging it, as long as some charge can be trickled into the battery somehow and then discharge it it will eventually rejuvenate. Some ways are much faster than others and some more efficient some not so hard on the battery.
Farmhand,
I agree, a fast way of rejuvenating many batteries that I picked up in the 70's is to merely tap and spark the bad battery with an overvoltage, like 24 volts on a 12 volt battery. All you do is tap one electrode with the high voltage a few times just to spark quickly, and then just charge normally. What happens inside batteries left laying or not being used is they grow dendrites between plates and check like a shorted or dead battery. Sparking with a high voltage will blow the dendritic growth off the plates and then the batteries can be recharged normally, though their capacity will be a little diminished.
Hi Grummage as per the links I've shown the system can power your house for free now! O0 and the fact that it quickly rejuvenates batteries is well documented and established its in the links I've posted for you . not quite sure how your power supplier is going to take to that idea though. :D rejuvenating batteries is (I believe) part and parcel of COP>1 even though tinman didn't see it quite that way I have hopes I'm on the right idea sorry (hypotheses if ya like) I also don't quite see how the 3BGS fits in here :o a/ there isn't three batteries and b/ certainly no motor, Still it was a great thread I saw all I ever want to of the inside of bloody batteries !
here I simply consider how a stand alone battery may be energised and have introduced a series capacitor as a step along the path I wanted to demonstrate . still glad your having success with it Grum
kind regards Duncan
s
room .. I have read of folks flashing them with a welder , I don't much like the idea ,and I've never tried it . but I have seen it some where
Dear Duncan.
Something that has really irked me for years is when we had our old Disc style electricity meter changed for a Digital one. The fact is, our bills went up from the next reading on !!
My assumption is that with the electronic summation the meter is actually able to calculate and account for the reactive element, which of course the older meter could not do !! Does anyone know if this is a fact ? I have unfortunately lost all contact with former colleagues at the meter test department.
Cheers Grum.
oh wow now you ask me Grummage last time I worked on meters it was the MEB and they still had pointers ! but when I think about it I don't see how the can charge for KVAr your bills in KWs and I would think that's what it has to be ! even factories had a separate meter and the lowest PF was levied across the whole bill .. just my guess things might have altered!
kind regards Duncan
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.11, 17:55:27
room .. I have read of folks flashing them with a welder , I don't much like the idea ,and I've never tried it . but I have seen it some where
Duncan,
I've rejuvenated many AA, AAA and 9V rechargeable batts with my 20V 1.6 amp power supply, I set to 20V and spark the battery a number of times and even leave it connected a few seconds it rarely fails to bring them back. I have never had a problem doing it. I should add that it is a current limited PS.
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.11, 10:21:34
Aking your concern for the power companies is quite touching and I assume your thinking of the already operating system of Georges where he already runs his house for free and is in fact paid by the power company?
The first thing to acknowledge is if your using any reactive current you are at best introducing capacitive load which the grid desperately requires they should be paying you for raising the power factor quite apart from anything else
If you are thinking of Clarence s machine for that to work (as I see it ) It needs two text book pukka formulas to be engineered to work one is P =VI cos φ and the other that LA batteries require Amps x hours and yes the current will be reactive . The whole globe has thousands of amps circulating naturally all the time it is reactive current AKA magnetic current . The shit we get from the grid also de-grades into magnetic current sometimes quite huge circulating in the neutral and earth ( which is pretty much one and the same connection) .. research triplins if your interested
So it brings up the question of who owns these huge natural circulating currents ? Moray used them and had to travel miles away from power stations or radio transmitters to run his machine even so the power companies still tried to insist he was stealing power. Just as folks are saying Clarance is
(he isn't) yes the theory says it should run on an inverter . It also uses reactive current AKA Magnetic current avaliable for free in copious ammounts . Magnetic current is natural it is the planets battery . The stuff we use is a horrid abortion! You got taught this at primary school didn't you ?
1. Einstein — 'Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another
there's not a watt more or less than ever there has been ! It changes to Magnetic current and then by slight of hand we pay for the same energy over and over again . Who owns and controls magnetic current ? Who owns the air , the sea and the rain ?
What a load of gobblygook when I turn on a light energy is dissipated as heat and light and real power is consumed that we pay for.
Care to explain just how the power company gets that heat and light energy that I dissipated back so they can sell it back to me ?
When we dissipate power from a load what we actually do is convert high order energy to low order energy.
..
Fellows
I spoke with Clarence today,hoping to get some things sorted out and move towards a better understanding of this claim.
will update here in the next few days.
I am going out of town for a few days to Help The Motherinlaw sell her house in PA [meeting a few potential buyers]
your patience in this matter is greatly appreciated.
Chet K
Quote from: Grumage on 2015.04.11, 16:27:51
Dear TinMan.
Just to be clear my Wattmeter appears to be calibrated in deg's. 100 being unity. So with the battery disconnected I was seeing 0.8 deg lag.
Cheers Grum.
I'm not sure what you mean by-100 being unity? ,and when you say deg lag,do you mean that the current is lagging the voltage by 0.8 deg?. If so ,then 100 would mean that the current is lagging the voltage by 100 deg ?. I would think in this situation that 0.1 would mean no reactants in the system. With my meter,if i plug an incandescent bulb into the watt meter,it read's 01,if i plug my transformer into it,it reads 19,as the transformer is an inductive load,and i would think that now the current is lagging slightly behind the voltage.
I'm not sure on this one,so i will have to have a look on the scope to see if I'm reading my power factor correctly :-\
Quote from: Matt Watts on 2015.04.11, 20:58:45
Farmhand,
Is the explanation in this video make any sense from your research?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxYDsLhe3fA
He's talking about putting resonance into the ground and when you pull it back out, you in no way effect the draw from the source, so the more receivers you have, the more magnification you get.
I've seen a lot of videos where people claim this phenomena, but it always seem like the amount of energy extracted is a fraction of what is put in. Once you start extracting close to the amount put in, I've always seen the source side start to load up and draw more power.
I wouldn't take too much notice of that video.
1. He is using some kind of weird winding with lots of air in there, so when he tries to use transformer action the coupling is very low, meaning he gets very very low efficiency at the load.
2. When he connects to the "ground" and separates the coils he is simply "end feeding the second coil" or exciting it from the signal on the ground line looks like, doing that still gave him less than 50% efficiency I estimate as I seen no proper measurements, just input current, no rating for the bulb that I noticed. I did get annoyed and cut the video short.
Looking at the globe it looks like one of my 12 volt 3 watt or 24 volt 5 watt bulbs. Which would carry 0.25 amp and 0.2 amp respectively.
So it actually looks like less than 30 % efficiency.
Now if he had a normal transformer with a good core rated for the frequency he is using then transformer action would be most efficient.
Seriously the coils are wound into a weird shape with crossed wires and stuff everywhere. He can't possibly expect to get good transformer effect like that.
His comparisons are not really applicable and don't really make sense.
When all is said and done his best efficiency is very bad, is what it looks like to me.
..
The weapons and field of battle are mine for the choosing! a boxing match , this forum ! but first
A correction and an apology to Chet . Chet is very perceptive and put the 3BGS centre stage here quite how or why I don't know. I took a hard look at myself last night and decided I don't want to tell lies and surly the worst lies I can tell are to myself ! And then reflect the mirror image to you understanding (I hope) readers. Of course the 3BGS system plays a huge part in my thinking so does Hatum TK Don Smith an so many others that like most of you I have spent thousands of pounds and years investigating.
I believe I had a very powerful glimpse of the answer on that thread but I could not open the what you now call 'hypotheses' for any sort of examination . I also became suspicious of the main guru on that thread Matt B (keeping in mind I have met and spoken to Matt and Stayed with David for a time) anyway after investigation with a third party which I wont go in to my suspicions became rather more concrete.
In fact the very simple test I have just asked you to do which costs buttons and little time I could not get past the starting gate ! Matt diverted it .. My own view is, if your a free energy researcher and you have even one brain cell that isn't lonely then you should know without a shadow of a doubt that all research forums are loaded with 5th columnists Matt is one such Farmhand is another I should qualify that with (I believe) if you wish to view that as delusional paranoia help yourself !
There are many others of course, if not the world would have had free energy long ago QED!
I try very hard to take a philosophical view of the opposition, 'the enemy in the camp', they have a paid job to do. I told Matt and the rest of the forum my view of him . And things became a little what shall we say "socially engaged" Ostracised comes to mind ! I could not prevail Matt had a very firm grip on that that thread which has of course rolled on for pages and pages (since then) and eventually dropped into obscurity as was intended.
I have a pretty good idea of the enemy within and if you reading this are not moronic you should too! Just go back and see who shouts loudest Show me yours, show me yours, go back and look at the flames and wonder why the fire was started ! I am but one person being punched about by many the right word I guess is 'bullies' ... Its their job ! Keeping that in mind 'farmhand' .. I respect farmhand he has done some nice things for me and certainly isn't lacking in humour, His attacks are more respectful than the rest of the 'pack' I will answer his questions you who claim scientific rigour watch for his slight of hand .. watch the same card TK pulled from the bottom of the pack .. watch as power is slipped in for energy .. energy that doesn't blow fuses (remember) learn the tricks well they are used over and over again ,
learn to spot the language that's used erroneously in this dimension which if you adhere
to iremoves any hope of comprehending the other ! Study carefully the wording I use and decide which is correct and just who is feeding you gobbledygook
you may think farmhand & co are all jolly good eggs and we should be one big happy family the nest actually has so many Cookoo's its liable to collapse !
Its been suggested by some that because of the behaviour and aggression here I don't bother anymore, there have been emails and PM and other things. They wonder why I should bother, Its easy
I have come out to fight ! The winner gets to tell many readers the truth ! The many readers will know the script and tell others . The first matchup is that well known and respected heavy weight farmhand he might chose to be seconded by TK their camp might have common ground and believe energy is power and energy isn't required to blow fuses!
I liked the Video Matt Watts posted so I think I'd like to nominate him as my second , shouldn't have to do much matt .. quick sponge down, mop up a bit of blood from the odd lucky punch! This isn't tag boxing I propose so allow us the courtesy to fight our fight , if I need my second I'll PM him ! I intend the Queensbury rules should apply that is correct scientific (as far as it goes) terms and terminology Ding ding round one!
Farmhand writes this
"What a load of gobblygook when I turn on a light energy is dissipated as heat and light and real power is consumed that we pay for.
Care to explain just how the power company gets that heat and light energy that I dissipated back so they can sell it back to me ?"
When we dissipate power from a load what we actually do is convert high order energy to low order energy.
What a load of gobbledygook I desperately want anyone reading this to think its gobbledygook that's my job when I turn on a light energy is dissipated Energy is never ever dissipated it is transformed from one form to another as heat and light and real power is consumed nothing is ever consumed and certainly not power , Power is VIcosφ and that multiplied by time is the unit energy it is known by most as KW/Hours (units) but may be known as therms or Joules (The watt second)
Care to explain just how the power company gets that heat and light energy (heat and light are not energy they are a step in the transform) that I dissipated(Transformed) back so they can sell it back to me ?
I have already but delighted to repeat for the benefit of others it's transformed into a different mathematical dimension and its physical presence is 180deg removed from the electromagnetic wave. like the electromagnetic wave its transformation back into this dimension is by one thing and one thing only resonance !
When we dissipate (transform energy with a load) power from a load what we actually do is convert high order energy to low order energy.
Who's "we"? They must have exceptional talants I certainly can't dissipate power from anything I may Use a lightbulb (for instance) to transform energy that is all!
what we actually do is convert high order energy to low order energy.
And I stand accused of 'gobbledygook' ?? high order low order is it monks you are taking about ? What units and composition do you consider we might give this monkish order?
Do you know how is cooled 500MW generator at the power station ? Did somebody truly computed the heat wasted compared to the input and output power ? ???
So many years and many threads and lots of money spent have fetched me here ! I give you a little experiment and I think you'll agree it has had interesting results! If you really haven't learnt anything else you know how to produce a battery rejuvenater for the price of a bag of peanuts. ;D
Until I manage to get this chestnut hypotheses thing done with or at least work out a better way to describe it I would like to offer another little bit of an experiment for you. In common with most I suggest it will be dirt cheap , very quick , and it will probably do something telling!
I have spent endless hours and spent thousands being led about by the nose! I didn't like it and I won't do it to others ! Most can do this with scrap in 15 min much quicker than It takes me to write it anyway ! (Much much quicker !) It relates here to Clarence's machine! It relates to what tin man is doing, it relates to telekinesis , series connections and of course resonance, As I have written previous I spent some time with David Bowling and whilst this is not the 3BGS it does relate to it and in fact goes back to its genesis and perhaps to the genesis of much else!
Object
To prove the effects of crystals on the manifestation of anomalous energy and investigate its relationship with telekinetic effects
apparatus
Two lead acid batteries of similar size physically and rating .. to wit. ..
One battery serviceable charged and in good condition.
The other exactly the polar opposite, sulphated until simply 'a box of crystals' In the condition the text books refer to as approaching >> infinite impedance.
One small brushed DC motor (high speed is good but what you have to hand , perhaps from an o'l model car or drill ,)
circuit diagram .. sketch
(http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b7/Battery%20circuit.jpg)
Method
Note that this is a series circuit involving an infinite impedance under no circumstances should DC current be able to flow. The battery I used happened to measure > 10 Meg ohm but as I said use what's to hand . It is the crystal formation I believe is the driving factor.
It would be far and away better from an experimental point of view if the motor doesn't run.
Flick the shaft one way then the other you will find one direction 'preferable' (easier to turn)
providing the 'bad battery' really is dead (don't blow yourself up) just briefly tap a short across it
the motor will turn ..once self running if you resist the shaft it will try all the harder !
That isn't the required condition of this experiment although of course fascinating in its own right!
Just on the verge of turning is what you seek!
Those of you who have dowsed for pipes, water or cables and are adept at it obviously know how to project your thoughts to an object and focus on it . Do so ! Focus on the crystallised battery will the motor to start, stop , or slow down
Results
current was measured in copious amounts (depending on shaft load) with the box of crystals
demonstrating negative resistance. That box of crystals I remind you has a static resistance of >10M ohm.
Focused concentration appeared to be able to slow down and speed up the motor
conclusion
There is a fractal quality locked in the crystal form which is particularly receptive to energy from the electrostatic dimension. This dimension quite apart from its energetic qualities is also I suspect the same dimension animals including we humans use , I have presumed that is how I may interact
however slightly. The fact that Clarence has used quartz crystals adds weight to my deliberation.
I hope one or two give it a try I would be very interested to see if you find the same effect
kind regards Duncan
Hi Forest over the years I have worked on five different power stations all had cooling towers belching out steam although I dare say that looked more dramatic and wasteful than it was. I guess someone must have worked these things out . Research indicates that After Tesla's first power station the twenty odd mile long grid was a total disaster huge amounts of energy entered the system and made its presence felt in a very unpredictable fashion , Tesla was at a total loss and the system on its knees It required Steinmetz to resolve the disaster. Still the effects of series resonance came to light along an infinite (relatively) transmission line. Tesla of course realised the power station was not required and was a farce . big business and money had a different direction in mind As history records Tesla changed direction immediately.
I know power generating stations are cooled by liquid hydrogen, so it's about tremendous heat generated and wasted. I believe all the input energy is just wasted ! That's the whole secret - there is NO CONVERSION of mechanical energy into electrical, just WASTE as HEAT at primary side
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.12, 10:15:15
watch as power is slipped in for energy .. energy that doesn't blow fuses
believe energy is power and energy isn't required to blow fuses
I let this go before, but as you have now mentioned it twice in one post it needs dealing with as it appears the lack of feedback to your initial delusion has spawned the misconception that you have scored a technical victory.
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.07, 06:35:03
evovingapes piffle about energy not being required to blow a cable.
You lost your grip on reality a while ago, and uttered the above gobbledegook which was subsequently corrected by Tinman below:
Quote from: TinMan on 2015.04.07, 11:09:24
I think your completely mixed up Ducan lol. It was TK i believe that was talking about blowing fuses,and you thought is was EA,and now your appologising to me for something i had nothing to do with lol.
Below, highlighted in blue, was your initial error. TK quite correctly defined the rate energy is dissipated as the relevant factor, your failure to understand what 'per' means is correctable with hard study.
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015.04.05, 14:49:22
You are really promulgating a lot of misconceptions in this post.
Wrong, and wrong. It's easy to generate and measure reactive power. "Cannot do useful work at the load" and "Can and does charge batteries" ... these two statements are contradictory. Reactive power cannot charge batteries... however it's easy to "siphon off" real power from a reactive power store, and charge batteries with that, and it can look like you aren't drawing your power from the reactive store (because it is being replaced as fast as you are drawing it off). But if you try to draw off real power faster than it is being replaced... you will see your reactive power collapse. And this has nothing to do with the single-wire ground return power system in use in Brazil. Wrong again. What blows fuses or melts wires is _dissipating power_ . You can take a given number of Joules of energy and send it slowly through a conductor (low power level) or send it very rapidly (high power level). In the first case not much happens, in the second case you get heating and melting and blowing fuses. It is not the amount of energy, but how fast it is applied to the conductor: that is, the Power level that determines heating, blowing fuses, melting, etc. Watts = Joules per second. Joules don't blow fuses, high currents through resistances produce heat (watts of dissipated power) which result in melting or blown fuses. Fewer Joules per second (Watts) = less heating. That much is approximately correct, except that power is not made up just of AMPS and the key word is "transfer". The current of AMPS still has electromagnetic effects even in a reactive power system and that's what makes it measurable and extractable.
You may want to review my demonstrations of high levels of Reactive Power that I did in the MicroQEG playlist on YT. I demonstrate how a high level of reactive power can occur in the primary of an air-core transformer and be siphoned off by the secondary to perform useful work without collapsing the resonating reactive power. The current of many amperes in the reactive power has profound electromagnetic effects that are easily directly detected and in fact provide the means for power transfer and conversion to real power. The "power" of reactive power may not be "real" but the electromagnetic effect of the _current_ certainly is real and provides the means for extracting and converting the reactive power into real, usable, dissipatable power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_%28physics%29
In physics, power is the rate of doing work. It is equivalent to an amount of energy consumed per unit time. In the SI system, the unit of power is the joule per second (J/s), known as the watt in honor of James Watt, the eighteenth-century developer of the steam engine.
The integral of power over time defines the work performed. Because this integral depends on the trajectory of the point of application of the force and torque, this calculation of work is said to be path dependent.
The same amount of work is done when carrying a load up a flight of stairs whether the person carrying it walks or runs, but more power is needed for running because the work is done in a shorter amount of time. The output power of an electric motor is the product of the torque that the motor generates and the angular velocity of its output shaft. The power involved in moving a vehicle is the product of the traction force of the wheels and the velocity of the vehicle. The rate at which a light bulb converts electrical energy into light and heat is measured in watts—the higher the wattage, the more power, or equivalently the more electrical energy is used per unit time.[1][2]While you Duncan, were busy disseminating your lack of wisdom, I was busy finishing hhop gen 2+ O0
our home doesn't like it that's for sure! forest ! and many people are suffering and dying just to keep the farce going! I don't know about anyone else but I think our little green and blue home need a bloody good spring clean and re-decoration.
evolvingape I have apologised for the piffle comment ! as tinman pointed out loud and clear, It was not wrong, but it also was not you. It was a case of mistaken identity! simple as ! I apologise yet again. as for your hydrogen machine I hope its a rip roaring success and we all have 50 kw ape-gens before the years out ! I wish you loads of fun and success with it!
kind regards Duncan
Quote from: evolvingape on 2015.04.12, 17:14:51
Yes, it was.
Ape-gen
Has a nice ring to it EA lol. O0
Quote from: TinMan on 2015.04.12, 17:24:09
Ape-gen
Has a nice ring to it EA lol. O0
Ape-gen sounds about right to me too Tinman O0
A 50 kW Ape-gen installation qualifies as a COP infinity device by this threads standards.
Build and first test of 50 kW installation completed by 15th September, with suitable resources supporting the project.
Micro scale Ape-gen 2+ being modular in design will establish potential scaling return on investment, shortly.
Makes a nice change for a DUT (device under test) to actually work as replicated :)
Matt as I see it pretty much every electrical unit is derived from another back to a fundamental measurement (like for instance the metre has a block of something or the other in a regulated room in Paris).
Here is a picture of how we might imagine the electromagnetic wave
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Onde_electromagnetique.svg)
you could if you so wish compute you way back from the electromagnetic wave to the energy required to produce It, its tedious and complex but do-able here's a simplified view.
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/jetstream/remote/remote_intro.htm (http://www.srh.noaa.gov/jetstream/remote/remote_intro.htm)
It is resonance that turns energy into the electro-magnetic waves . Radio antenna's are tuned resonant at transmitting stations and resonant at the receiver. (parallel resonant)
There is however another wave not shown here although Hams are well aware of it especially when they get near their antenna's although its not predominant because they never intentionally tune to it..
its at the other end of their SWR meter, SWR infinity The other resonance 'series resonance', and the wave is electrostatic and longitudinal (allegedly)
Because the wave is never used its units are not known. Its reception and conversion results in energy all right but not in any form we would recognise . Certainly not amps and volts and normal stuff we would measure.. Which is why folks can't measure it, they only see the secondary effects , like a battery icing under full load . .
Its this wave , its resonant conversion and the form and nature of the resultant energy that we have no concrete information for that's the start of the hypotheses I'm working on, to get at the thing and show the effect is a different matter
kind regards Duncan PS liquid hydrogen to cool power stations .. that's weird thought for sure!
Quote from: Duncan on 2015.04.12, 19:06:00
kind regards Duncan PS liquid hydrogen to cool power stations .. that's weird thought for sure!
Dear Duncan.
Weird, but true !!
I was involved in the decommissioning of Bromborough power station back in the mid 80's. This was one of the first to use Hydrogen cooling. What was also really neat, they used the partially cooled condensate to heat the local high rise buildings!! We seem to be going backwards as regards recycling IMO.
Cheers Grum.
As far as I'm concerned Duncan the floor is yours. I'm not going to argue with you. I've got life to deal with and cannot continue to waste my time.
You can preach to others because I aint reading the gobblygook posts anymore.
You win, your right I'm wrong. Good luck.
..
Goodbye farmhand ! I will retrieve your towel from the centre of the ring . Good luck spouting your energy fiction else where !(I don't mean that good luck bit,I wish you'd stop it!!) Readers you may wonder why farmhand and his ilk go to such extraordinary lengths to twist and turn the phraseology and definitions of science. It is to convince you that it simply 'cant be done' There are extraordinary forces of manipulation and mind control at play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZM22750v5M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZM22750v5M)
I don't know about horse to water, you can certainly ask a farmhand into the ring ! But a fighter with a glass jaw won't come out of his corner ! You have seen it remember it well.
Kind regards Duncan
Oh I misunderstood you actually want a real fisticuffs fight, Sure I'm up for that any time. PM me your address and then if it checks out I'll PM you mine then you can come here and learn what real hurt is, I'm 46 I have some injuries but I'm still strong and able to beat the crap out of most people I encounter If I must, I've never been knocked out even after around 12 heavy kicks to the head jaw and neck, no glass jaw here champ. Bring it. Or shut you yapper ya drunken moron. I was being sarcastic, everyone with any brains knows you are full of it Duncan. Oh you know some stuff I'll grant you. But you've lost the plot. I'm not trained in electronics but I know what makes sense and I have done some study. Not my lot to argue with you though. And if others want to read your posts that's fine with me.
I'm moving my thinking closer to reality and you are moving yours farther from it. This is the case. I'm not going to argue gobblygook, but scared I'm not and A glass jaw neither.
Now the only talk of violence should be face to face after your PM and plane flight. I'll meet you at the Airport. :) Sounds like fun to me. I'll leave it up to you to decide if I'm joking or not. It's kinda my standard response to any talk of violence and allegations of me being an agent of mind control or some such garbage. Come to my house and meet me, you'll see I'm a blue collar worker unfit for work waiting for an operation or two, I'm not well off, I would like free energy as much as anyone else, other wise I would not be here. I wouldn't do any experiments or tests either.
..
That's how easy it is to talk crap from behind a computer folks.
I bow out Curtly and cop a spray like that. Wow what a laugh.
Enough with the personal insults and allegations of mind control. It's not appropriate for an adult.
..
of course I don't mean real fighting .... these readers know better than that! and so do you , neither has there been any insults apart from being accused of speaking gobbledygook .. but yeah not much point continuing is there . if your wrong your wrong QED , you'd be wrong from behind a computer or face to face energy transforms
Kind regards Duncan NB everyone I do not hide behind a computer, I transmit under my own name, my address ,phone numbers and contact details are freely available that is all!
Now Gentleman, this tough guy talk is OK for the Energetic Forum but way out of place on this forum. ;D
energetics ? wimps .... never had a decent scrap there!
Rule No 1: Please respect this forum users.
Seems someone keep forgetting about purpose of this forum. Everyone has free opinion to express and help others here...
Farmhand, my advice - You can ignore insults and take few days away until things settle down then come back with some good ideas and experiments.
Cheers!
OK so you the reader may understand and perhaps T1000 too ... there was no insult at least not from me... If there were any insult at all it was name calling by farmhouse 'gobbledygook' ! But thats water off a ducks back! As for respect I have the utmost respect for farmhand he and I have clashed swords for many years he's a very formidable opponent I usually avoid a scrap if I can its time consuming and exhausting..
The fact is even we folks who work with electricity all the time mix the correct terms up in speech anyway, for example more power when we actually mean more energy or over unity when we mean COP>1 for the most part it slides past and is of no mind nor matter.
On this occasion I have a hypotheses and I need to broadcast it . For that to happen I need you the reader to understand what the hell I'm saying. In order to find any penetration into classical electrical theory It is imperative that I try to use the correct terms with the correct phraseology or I won't be understood by anyone.
If farmhands opposition and for years we've sparred and I think he is, (and have told him so) then its his job like any army trooper to destroy lines of communication. That's the act you have just watched played out!
If you start thinking 'dissipate instead of transform' and 'power instead of energy' your listening to a line with a scrambler on it ! You'll never understand what I write regardless of if you want to believe it or not, Farmhand (I believe) has a job to do so have many others. Keep in mind it must be so and you just witnessed it exposed. You might not like the way it was done .. so what ? I don't like being fooled year after year do you? We've just had another scrap that is all ! No insults and no referee is required on this occasion thanks T1000
As for the purpose of the forum the name says it all over unity research . Not over unity pessimism!
I have to try and take you reader where the impossible happens. There are no units in a dimension I don't fully see myself, what few units are available in a dimension we are a little familiar with need firmly locking down. If a volt was to suddenly be called a Henry I would be forced to defend it equally vigorously QED
there was a duel
Hi Matt your video clip has been nagging a little and your reflection on musical connection rings true . I have a reason to pursue that line , In fact quite a lot of tentative reasons that I have knitted together and forced to fit. In peoples greed for COP>1 they seem to fail to observe the obvious. For instance most here have built an SSG in fact I wouldn't mind betting its most peoples faltering steps into 'free energy' most found they could rejuvenate batteries and a few after hours and hours of variation got to a self runner, like grummage for months and months. Is it possible to rejuvenate with DC? no ! Only pulsing DC . If you take take one of these batteries apart that has been 'reconditioned'
you'll find the plates are a very different colour to a traditionally charged LA battery.
John himself knows its reactive power he writes that it is so! I have already pointed out that there are two resonances series and parallel . parallel resonance either receives or transmits the electromagnetic wave the radio wave to you and me ! You could measure and calculate back from the radio wave . Back to watts , and volts and amps and be on solid ground and quite happy.
We are not interested much in that , Its in the books, sure it gets complex but its there you can learn it. You expect the radio wave to travel by air It does ! What's the got to do with electricity?
Its simple you have only been shown half of it ! You have been shown what tptb want you to see!
If there are two resonances there are two entirely different sorts of energy. One is taught and you know something of it , The other for the moment is the exclusive domain of the so called elite, tptb and some of their drones.
As with electrical energy the transformation into and from a different dimension is by one thing and one thing only resonance.
There is one thing you can know for certain it is not going to resemble electricity as you know it at all, Its different stuff ! No volts for you to measure ! No amps , No ohms ,nothing for a measurist his equipment wont work this stuff!
There is however energy . We know next to nothing about it its been closed to us ! Tptb have had exclusive rights for well over a hundred years.
As a Radio Ham I was vaguely aware of this other wave .. The electrostatic wave but it was .. at the other end , The other resonance the one we were not allowed to use. SWR infinity a system not used for a hundred years or more . It doesn't use the air ... it uses the ground hence Clarence earth rods !
So what do we know of this very different energy ? We know after transformation its back in this dimension with us ! We know it is also sent and summoned by resonance! Like the electromagnetic wave.
Ergo Its part and parcel of the power system that is our grid. Our grid runs at as near unity as the robbing power companies can take it. If it were 90 deg lagging the grid would be a resonant radio antenna and all the energy would be transformed and disappear from your perceived dimension into the sky as a radio wave.... (The electromagnetic wave) .. The one we know of
If it were 90deg leading the grid would be a resonant wireless antenna and all the energy would still disappear from your perceived dimension this time into the ground as a wireless wave (The electrostatic wave) ... The one that's suppressed that we know nothing of ! ( Re - the longitudinal wave)
In the dimention of electricity it also isn't taught at all but like all the other things it had to be there !
Its in the very fabric of the electricity we use running right alongside ... invisible and very nearly undetectable. No known units (not to us anyway) certainly not amps volts watts and all that phiss !
Here then matt is the musical connection as relates to the present grid system. the unit of the electro-magnetic wave is the wavelenghth the grid uses the electromagmetic system and the electrostatic system how can It do otherwise? At unity power factor Its piggy in the middle between two resonances.
It might be helpful here to imagine a row of houses down the street odd numbered houses on one side of the road and even on the other ... we are facing the even numbered houses it is all we can see ! We are oblivious to the odd numbered houses behind us. They there of course but you have to move your perspective 180 deg to see them.
Consider the sine wave the grid carries the sine wave itself is not energy, however it has shape in common with music like musical notes it is also made up of a fundimental and many harmonics all are contained within the area under the curve ... The envolope and all the predictable even harmonics make up the side of the street we are forced to look at.
To get a flavour of what the odd numbered houses look like we'll see by what order the sine wave degrades. It isn't by harmonics rather by 'odds' known as overtones to electricians but having little relationship to how a musician might view overtones in that electrically both overtones and harmonics go on ad infinitum. As we consider a LA battery and more particularly the crystal content I invite you to inspect the frequency progression of another crystal . Both its overtone (series resonant ) progression and its harmonic (parellel resonant) progression
http://www.northcountryradio.com/PDFs/070302007.pdf
It is of course a complex suject in its own right but all you really need to take on board right now is that it is possible to split electricity in half that is harmonics (even numbered houses) and overtones (odd numbered houses) The grid exibits the same progression see triplins
Duncan: You and I are singing from the same hymn sheet. I call it stochastic mixing.
The answers are all here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRlYwyqDA3Y
Let those who have ears to hear, hear.
Mmm some folks are going to be sitting on the naughty step for quite some time ! thanks for that aking
haven't studied this but for a glance http://www.google.com/patents/US1006786 (http://www.google.com/patents/US1006786)
strange aking I used the same term back on the 3bgs thread all that time ago to describe what I was seeing but termed it stochastic resonance . still from the same bit of maths I'm sure
Kind regards Duncan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6uP7Ze_c6I
2 hours 16 minutes in.
Duncan'
Quote
Mmm some folks are going to be sitting on the naughty step for quite some time
end quote
HHMmm
well there going to have to wait...
I been sitting in the naughty seat since I got to my Motherinlaws a few days ago..
I'll let you know when its available :-X
[hoping to leave tonight]
@Aking
QuoteThe answers are all here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRlYwyqDA3Y
Let those who have ears to hear, hear.
Thank you for that link which I found very interesting, you know I have always found science peculiar. I talk to an expert and they say they demand proof for any claim as a matter of logic and reason. At which point I must ask if they believe in proof and logic and reason then why have they discarded all the facts they personally do not like. Then I talk to another expert who states they require proof of any claim and yet they go to church every Sunday and worship a supposed bearded man in a white dress who supposedly created the whole universe in six days. At which point I must ask where is their proof, where is their logic and reason concerning their supposed belief?.
It would seem to me many experts are hypocrites because in many cases they say one thing yet believe and do things in contradiction to what they say when it suits their best interests. Personally I think Dr.Wood has shown some very compelling evidence to suggest this requires further investigation. Unless of course we believe scott packs and automobiles are prone to just explode for no apparent reason at which point we should consider seeking psychiatric help.
Me... the more I learn and understand the less I'm sure I really understand anything so I'm actually losing expertise and at this rate I should understand absolutely nothing by the end of next year.
AC
@Matt
QuoteSo correct. Lets pick Darwin for example and have a look:
http://tomatobubble.com/id817.html
Another interesting article and he makes a strong argument for intelligent design. This is way out in left field but in many UFO encounters the alien beings were noted as speaking Sumarian and declaring themselves as our God. Which puts a new twist on an old story and it is suggested that when the quite religious president Jimmy Carter was supposedly informed of the truth about aliens he openly wept. So I am not against the intelligent design theory and it would explain many things however I have to ask... which intelligence and from where?.
Which again raises certain questions leading to a contradiction in terms such as when 80% may believe in a God of some sort however very few believe there may be other alien beings in this big old universe of ours. To me it would seem to be a case of the pot calling the kettle black because each seem equally unbelievable.
At which point we might have a valid explanation for all the supposed secrecy because if 80% of the world is in some way religious then I'm guessing that if they ever found out they were actually worshiping aliens this wouldn't go over too well. Personally I find it easier to believe because I have seen the technology in action first hand. I mean I'm the tech guy and you can ask me a question about damn near anything and I can always find a reasonable answer however what I saw defies the imagination. You literally have to see it to believe it and once you do you will understand we are still little more than misguided hairless apes. Make no mistake that as far as our understanding of this universe is concerned they are for all intensive purposes gods relative to us.
So I'm on the fence as far as both science and religion are concerned however it does not take a great stretch of the imagination to believe there may be beings with superior intelligence and technology. Look how far we have come in the last 200 years then imagine where we might be in 2000 or even 10,000 years from now. We cannot even imagine just as our great great grandparents could not even imagine where we are, such is life.
AC
music ... from harmonics > to a symphony from overtones > to a dustifier ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9N34dawm00 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9N34dawm00)
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=amazing+resonance+experiment (https://www.google.co.uk/#q=amazing+resonance+experiment)
I seem to be being shouted at by peoples past , folk who don't like this technology being used as it is ! Here then are a few of those voices from the recent past each was well aware of the significance of series resonance each was done to silence by fair means or foul.
1/ There is no absolute scale of size in the Universe, for it is boundless towards the great and also boundless towards the small
2/ It is perhaps too much to expect a man to be both the prince of experimentalists and a competent mathematician oliver Heaviside
(http://www.theiet.org/staticfiles/images/blogs/7/Blog-Picture-Heaviside.jpg)
If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search.
I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor." Nikola Tesla
(http://www.nndb.com/people/334/000022268/tesla64.jpg)
1/ Mathematics is the most exact science, and its conclusions are capable of absolute proof. But this is so only because mathematics does not attempt to draw absolute conclusions. All mathematical truths are relative, conditional
.
2/ Spiritual power is a force which history clearly teaches has been the greatest force in the development of men. Ye. we have been merely playing with it and never have really studied it as we have the physical forces. Some day people will learn that material things do not bring happiness, and are of little use in making people creative and powerful. Then the scientists of the world will turn their laboratories over to the study of spiritual forces which have hardly been scratched . Charles Proteus Steinmetz
(http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/15/26115-004-9457DE74.jpg)
The footsteps of Nature are to be trac'd, not only in her ordinary course, but when she seems to be put to her shifts, to make many doublings and turnings, and to use some kind of art in endeavouring to avoid our discovery. Robert Hook
(http://www.moonmentum.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Robert-Hooke-256x300.png)
As this is supposed to be a Clarence - Barbosa-Leal thread:
Here's Clarence's latest post lol!
Now we await Milehigh's response!
Quote from: clarence;273800Hello,
There are ONLY two transformers in my unit NOT three.
the CAPTOR LOOP is SUPPOSED TO HAVE AS LOW AS POSSIBLE CURRENT!!!!
THAT WAY each time A LOAD is placed on the output of the CAPTOR an incremental additional increase is added to the LOOP without quickly OVERHEATING IT!!!!!!
I would desire that people would STOP TRYING TO SECOND GUESS an effective OPERATING SYSTEM that has ALREADY BEEN PERFECTED both by B&L AND myself!!!
WHAT YOU WOULD DO would QUICKLY OVERHEAT THE LOOP!!!!!
leave it ALONE!
Clarence
Yesterday, 11:27 PM
clarence clarence is online now
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 252
Correct toroid specs before ordering
Quote:
Originally Posted by totoalas View Post
hi bro mickey and Clarence
nice diagrams
toroid winding size
and info before i buy the core 5,2 inches ?
thanks
Hello totoalas,
go back to PAGE 1 - POST #6 to get the CORRECT toroid part specification!
it DOES NOT have a secondary winding on it!!! and that was the way I ordered it and use it!!! YOU- YOU -YOU are going to wind the secondary
windings on it which MAKE UP THE CAPTOR LOOP! (the 2/1/2 #4 AWG wire).
If you use the part information in recent post it will come with a secondary winding on it which will HAVE TO BE REMOVED. AND it will cost more for something you can't use!
I have tried to get that point across several times but I guess everyone keeps missing it! thanks Sir!
Clarence
bout right aking .. I tried to put an experiment across with 1 ONE component a capacitor all sorts of stuff happened there was transformers ... oscilloscopes .. resistors different voltages meters all sorts of crap and the whole thing becomes a farce. If folks can't replicate at that level what chance this? better to try the hypotheses first? but I start to tire.
minds work in different ways ,some may have gone to see what Robert Hook had to do with series resonance and things would be clear . some want to build anything I require an idea. That is all..., one that works so the thing may be engineered. That this works for Clarence is probable but the variables are many
Kind regards Duncan
So why doesn't the QEG produce overunity then ? It is a resonance device after all..
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-quantum-energy-generator-qeg-10kw-out-for-1kw-in.3572/
Some of my favourite comments can be found on that page.. COP>1.2 and no Nobel Prize! ;D
Hi evolvingape don't know much about the thing to be honest with you. There are plenty of scams that's for sure I wouldn't know if this is one or not without study . many I know beyond any reasonable doubt are not scams like Moray for instance or Ruggero Maria Santilli. Maria? How sweet ... anyway some I'm aware of because I have been mentored through building them by now members of this forum.
There are even electrically (class 101) two very distinct resonances. ergo resonance doesn't mean COP>1. There are better than 5000 patents have been blocked over the years I understand. was this one ? I dont know ! Probably looks staged to me. who cares ? You have made an ape gen , I dont expect to hear that chugging away in my garage powering my house anytime soon either. Not that you haven't done or got , just there are other problems .. enjoy the ditty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2l5Z9T_x8A&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2l5Z9T_x8A&feature=player_embedded)
kind regards Duncan
Dear Duncan.
Enjoy. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gudiy3eXBU0
Cheers Grum.
Dear All.
I re uploaded in HD, here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xJKBhMCSSo The first run was so grainy !!
Now to follow on, for the last hour or so I have had the battery connected to the mains. Nothing, Zip, Zilch !! The video was a real fluke as nothing, not even a half a Watt is happening !! :o
I will of course keep you posted.
Cheers Grum.
Nada?? [you left out nada...we use that for ultimate emphasis in N.E. USA]
Nothing [or Nuttin in the Bronx] Zero Zilch Zip ....Nada.!!
Always finish with a strong Nada !
just one mans opinion !
Graham
here is the Magnetic map page for planet earth.
http://www.geometrics.com/blog/blog-entry/?article_id=148
Dear Chet.
Many thanks for the map, but I'm not thinking of relocating to the USA just yet!! :) I will have to see if there's a similar one for the UK.
Well that UFO of Jim's has arrived here so I got out into the garden and placed a random Earth spike, ( rod 2 ) about 18 Feet ( 8 M ) from my established one placed near to the house, ( rod 1). I then ran a 1.5 mm2 fully insulated conductor back to rod 1.
Note 1. Voltage between rods measured 0.257 V DC. The new rod ( rod 2) being +ve. No appreciable current. AC volts range zero.
G
Mr Aking.21 had recently told me about establishing a path, for want of a better word, so I got out my trusty hand cranked 500 VDC MEGGER insulation tester and gave it " what for " ( " the works ") .
Note 2. Voltage between rods measured 1.5 VDC , MEGGER running and then quietly drops back to quiescent. But interestingly there is a small current as well.
As a point of note. Rod 1 has a minimum distance of 40 feet from our Supply Industry aerial ground.
There is much more to come, once my UPS has fully charged. My intention is to try feeding variable frequencies into Rod 2 and see if there is any attenuation of the signal received at Rod 1.
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Grumage on 2015.04.21, 14:48:38
Dear Chet.
Many thanks for the map, but I'm not thinking of relocating to the USA just yet!! :) I will have to see if there's a similar one for the UK.
Well that UFO of Jim's has arrived here so I got out into the garden and placed a random Earth spike, ( rod 2 ) about 18 Feet ( 8 M ) from my established one placed near to the house, ( rod 1). I then ran a 1.5 mm2 fully insulated conductor back to rod 1.
Note 1. Voltage between rods measured 0.257 V DC. The new rod ( rod 2) being +ve. No appreciable current. AC volts range zero.
G
Mr Aking.21 had recently told me about establishing a path, for want of a better word, so I got out my trusty hand cranked 500 VDC MEGGER insulation tester and gave it " what for " ( " the works ") .
Note 2. Voltage between rods measured 1.5 VDC , MEGGER running and then quietly drops back to quiescent. But interestingly there is a small current as well.
As a point of note. Rod 1 has a minimum distance of 40 feet from our Supply Industry aerial ground.
There is much more to come, once my UPS has fully charged. My intention is to try feeding variable frequencies into Rod 2 and see if there is any attenuation of the signal received at Rod 1.
Cheers Grum.
You should have LOOPED it! O0
I have replicated Grumage's experiment.
2 ground rods 10 feet apart.
Initial voltage 0.12 volts between them
Pulsed 2 ground rods at 15 khz approx 11.5 volts. The voltage started to rise.
On disconnect the voltage was 2.5 volts dropping steadily over several minutes.
Attempt at looping using a high speed HV diode resulted in the voltage dropping to 0.47 volts and staying there for some time.
As this was a surprise I didn't time it .
I haven't completed the experiment. But more to come.
So: Is the ground acting as a capacitor or are we inducing an ionic pathway for ambient electricity to enter??
Something is happening. That's for sure.
Some preliminary conclusions:
Surprise 1: The voltage started to rise steadily from 11.5 volts to 12 volts over several minutes.
Surprise 2: On disconnect the voltage fell immediately to 2.5 then slowly declined over several minutes.
Surprise 3: Looping using a HV HF diode resulted in an immediate drop to 0.47 volts steady.
Overall surprise: the electrical characteristics of the ground was altered by the experiment. :o :o :o
on disconnect: Placing a 100 watt lightbulb across the output of the earth rods reduces the voltage to 0.09 volts
removing the lightbulb and the earth voltage springs back to 1.25. I did this several times with the same result.
So the earth can't be acting as a capacitor. :o :o :o :o
Ah Grummage I guess you can't win a coconut with every throw! I've done quite a few batteries but I confess I haven't had one as self willed as that one of yours, on off ,in out is it doing the hokey cokey ? Bless you and Aking for running the experiment though! I can't emphasise enough you can't measure this stuff. I recall one of the guys 3BGS running a 3 Kw fire (off forum) through earth rods looped with an inverter .. he sent pictures of the inside of the battery the main negative post connection was .. I was going to write melted because it looked 'melted' but there was no heat .... no damage to the battery case. but it was destroyed
It is reactive current your collecting I'm sure and capacitive at that (electrostatic)
As I think I explained my chemistry knowledge is woeful . I am spending some time reading through a forum dedicated to batteries ! Batteries ?? (and folks think we are sad messing about with magnets, motors, and coils et-al.)
Being electrically trained Grum you would be as aware as me that a thing with capacitance and inductance is resonant at some frequency although in the case of a LA battery things are always a'changing. Over on this battery forum resonance is in the 'wife's tales' department at best will'o' the wisp. . As you ran a modified SSG for weeks Grum so I have watched a battery ice under load. Bits seemingly unrelated unite . For instance SSG .. good with heavily sulphated batteries not so new batteries. Good with LA batteries not so other types, works well for some folks and has glowing reports' it is a disaster for others. It's that icing effect and everything that goes with it I'm interested in Grum and much more importantly the why of it. That seems to logically fit to Clarence's machine and many others . Ho hum Here we go into the hypotheses thing again ... I think the sulphated battery is an important part of the equation as the crystals are stable – ish. From the battery boffins over yonder I learn that a battery fully charged or not might be considered to have some level of sulphation. That too fits! As a next stage although It may seem a step backward in time Grum and aking .. I have sent off for a few odds and sods to knock up the scalar battery charger thing – (or something like) as about 1/2 way down this page
http://www.icehouse.net/john1/tesla.html (http://www.icehouse.net/john1/tesla.html)
It is obvious that bits of that circuit are wrong particularly the transistor 'charge' switching I am quite sure that John B is wrong in his 3x BC108s I would rather think the charge bit was based on an old push pull circuit ... if you regard the transformer less push/pull amplifier on this webpage used in reverse so to speak to charge each capacitor
http://www.learnabout-electronics.org/Amplifiers/amplifiers54.php (http://www.learnabout-electronics.org/Amplifiers/amplifiers54.php)
and the transistors are a 'complimentary pair' I'm sure you see how both capacitors might be equally charged and then discharged into the battery by the middle transistor then being effectively a closed switch. then the circuit although simple makes perfect sense . consider it for a moment or two and you'll see its just the same circuit ... capacitors in series with a lead acid battery. but one you could adjust to resonance or one of the overtones.
The fact that the radio staff measured the battery as being flat as a pancake means only one thing to me ... sulphation , crystals ! Workshops full of kitchen units and crap but If I can get get some operating space , I intend to revisit that old circuit.
It may not seem to related to Clarence's determined effort or what your seeing happening to your batteries but it seems to mesh together for me . Resonance > crystals> magnetic current AKA reactive current capacitive. I'm not going to put my nadgers on the block just yet but a great deal of reported effects fit and even the effects so far with one component seem worthy of investigation don't you think? If you charge another like this Grum perhaps on a bit of scrap Granite might be interesting.
Thank you again gents Kind regards Duncan
Dear All.
We have become Geologists !! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x__NQOtrzf0
Very interesting !! ??
Cheers Grum.
I am reminded of
http://www.rexresearch.com/prentice/prentice.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/prentice/prentice.htm)
Quote from: Grumage on 2015.04.22, 12:16:14
Dear All.
We have become Geologists !! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x__NQOtrzf0
Very interesting !! ??
Cheers Grum.
Grum, a type of pizo electric????? good old Welsh stone under there maybe!! ;D
regards
Mike 8)
Quote from: Centraflow on 2015.04.22, 14:57:26
Grum, a type of pizo electric????? good old Welsh stone under there maybe!! ;D
regards
Mike 8)
Dear Mike.
No, not here !! Sat on a Glacial moraine field. However with such a mish mash of rubbish perhaps Piezo effect is being witnessed.
I am really getting into this subject, so at great expense another couple of rods were purchased and another placed 1 M further West and put in parallel with Rod 2. Interestingly a rise in potential is seen, not much but very noticeable non the less.
Just for entertainment !! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcPu4Ie47vA
Cheers Grum.
for consideration https://vimeo.com/78669064 (https://vimeo.com/78669064)
and this The energy could light lamps, power machines, inhibit electromagnetic propagation such as radio waves and stop or control electromagnetic induction, and also develop antigravity effects and is involved in the life process from here ..
http://www.rexresearch.com/rota2/rota.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/rota2/rota.htm)
Dear All.
Can anyone pick up the gauntlet from me ?
I have just finished an experiment injecting the rod 8 M away with a Sinus wave and looking at the signal at the closest rod. I saw no unusual signal until the 1 mhz frequency where the received signal appeared to be larger than the applied one.
Unfortunately my FG maxes at 1.6 mhz. I wonder if anyone can push this boundary to see if the effect is both valid and maybe even increases the received signal ?
Cheers Grum.
member dragon at Energetic has had some interesting experiments
from here post number 339
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20091-barbosa-leal-devices-info-replication-details-12.html
dragon
Quote
I became interested in the B&L device primarily because I was looking for a current source, the basics of this is current. I wound up a toroid and with a little experimentation I found I could generate 400 amps with a mere 15 watt input - beautiful - with some nichrome strands I should be able to heat water with very little energy. I noticed something else from this... I wrapped a coil of 1/0 cable around an 8" PVC form to reduce the draw on the primary of the torroid which dropped the input down to 8 watts, still providing the overall 400 amp/T ratio when I noticed a ceramic magnet more than 6 ft away chattering bringing it close to the coil was amazing - that shouts motor drive quite loudly to me. No magic just plain logic and truth.
Quote from: Chet K on 2015.04.25, 15:08:27
member dragon at Energetic has had some interesting experiments
from here post number 339
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20091-barbosa-leal-devices-info-replication-details-12.html
dragon
Quote
I became interested in the B&L device primarily because I was looking for a current source, the basics of this is current. I wound up a toroid and with a little experimentation I found I could generate 400 amps with a mere 15 watt input - beautiful - with some nichrome strands I should be able to heat water with very little energy. I noticed something else from this... I wrapped a coil of 1/0 cable around an 8" PVC form to reduce the draw on the primary of the torroid which dropped the input down to 8 watts, still providing the overall 400 amp/T ratio when I noticed a ceramic magnet more than 6 ft away chattering bringing it close to the coil was amazing - that shouts motor drive quite loudly to me. No magic just plain logic and truth.
I think somebody's gone badly off the rails here. Of course we already know that "Dragon" isn't about to share the details of how he accomplished this miracle of "just plain logic and truth", nor just how the measurements were made. Has he perhaps confused average power with peak power, RMS current with instantaneous peak current? When will we see the cup of water brought rapidly to boil with the 15, or better 8 Watts input to a coil producing 400 amps output to "some nichrome strands"?
Here's what just 10 Amps RMS current looks like, going through some 5mm Nichrome ribbons:
HMM
here is a circuit he mentions in regard to a query about the claim.
and some text
dragon
Quote
I haven't built the NiChrome drum to fully test the idea of heating water, only small tests with a 200 watt bulb for heat output - tested but not confirmed. The other is the diagram for the magnetic field. This actually opened a door for some interesting ideas as solutions to some previous projects that have stumped me for some time now...
end quote
**original post number 342 here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20091-barbosa-leal-devices-info-replication-details-12.html
Dragon also claimed free energy from a simple three plate capacitor, and also I think from a setup using a plate between two batteries, however there was no evidence to support his claims. That did not stop Patrick Kelly wanting to put the dodgy system in his free energy devices book, just like 99 % of all the other BS in his book it is just a claim with no evidence. The PJK free energy devices book is one of the biggest sources of garbage in these forums, that and the PESWIKI site. Almost everything in the book or on the site is rubbish, better to not read them. They are worse than a waste of time. Dragons words mean very little to me as he makes no sense and provide no evidence for his claims.
..
I can show you 400 amps with only about 8 to 10 watts input. But the 400 amps isn't output is it ? If it was it would be associated with voltage and power value, the 400 amps is just a measured value in the setup. If anyone puts a couple of turns of thick wire around a toroid that has a 220 to 240 volt primary winding on it they can also see some 400 amps or so of current on the wire. It doesn't mean anything. The output power or the energy dissipated in/from the load compared to the input power is what matters. 400 amps so what ? What of it ? What was the load and what was the voltage across the load ? Not to mention those things is leading people up the path. Dragon has no free energy either except for the solar and wind and whatever else he has inputting power to his system batteries, if he did he would not be still on the grid. I'll bet my leftie that the solar and wind are by many magnitudes the biggest inputs to his system.
..
Dear All.
Maybe B&L were on to something after all ?? !! :D
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/08/12/see-how-the-dutch-are-generating-100-sustainable-electricity-from-plants/
Cheers Grum.
@Grum
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/08/12/see-how-the-dutch-are-generating-100-sustainable-electricity-from-plants/
I think this is what happens when we apply Faraday's thought that--- it does not matter how the change occurs only that it does. Many are simply close minded and cannot seem to understand that the only requirement for a power source of any magnitude is that ... some electrons move. It does not matter how or why only that they move and if we actually open our eyes we find they are always moving everywhere despite our complete lack of a meaningful perspective.
We know "change" is everywhere in everything and it is simply a matter of translating this change to moving electrons and we have a power source...period.
AC
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2015.09.18, 14:29:53
We know "change" is everywhere in everything and it is simply a matter of translating this change to moving electrons and we have a power source...period.
AC
Yes, having a potential difference is the key. However, if that potential difference is within a closed system it can only ever be COP<1 (coefficient of performance less than 1).
We can build machines (receivers) to convert environmental energy to useful output energy such as electricity from a solar panel. This is classed as COP = infinity (nonsense term) but has a COP<1 cycle within the solar panel.
Only an open system can be COP>1 (greater than) so it follows that you must couple an environmental source of energy input somehow in your design. (like heat pumps)
Quote from: evolvingape on 2015.09.18, 15:17:18
Only an open system can be COP>1 ...
And I will stress, if you are not in control of everything that happens at an atomic level or smaller, all systems composed of matter are in fact open systems.
I have yet to see any device sitting on a workbench that is completely isolated from the environment. Take just gravity as one example; ambient heat as another.
Quote from: evolvingape on 2015-09-18, 15:17:18
Only an open system can be COP>1 ...
Quote from: Matt Watts on 2015.09.18, 19:30:33
And I will stress, if you are not in control of everything that happens at an atomic level or smaller, all systems composed of matter are in fact open systems.
I have yet to see any device sitting on a workbench that is completely isolated from the environment. Take just gravity as one example; ambient heat as another.
You can break most systems down into sub systems, which will be either open or closed. The black box approach is most effective at determining a system COP.
The relationship of the fundamental forces to those systems is an open or closed black box approach.
Open system (systems theory)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_system_%28systems_theory%29
An open system is a system that has external interactions. Such interactions can take the form of information, energy, or material transfers into or out of the system boundary, depending on the discipline which defines the concept. An open system is contrasted with the concept of an isolated system which exchanges neither energy, matter, nor information with its environment. An open system is also known as a constant volume system or a flow system.
The concept of an open system was formalized within a framework that enabled one to interrelate the theory of the organism, thermodynamics, and evolutionary theory.[1] This concept was expanded upon with the advent of information theory and subsequently systems theory. Today the concept has its applications in the natural and social sciences.
In the natural sciences an open system is one whose border is permeable to both energy and mass.[2] In physics a closed system, by contrast, is permeable to energy but not to matter.
Open systems have a number of consequences. A closed system contains limited energies. The definition of an open system assumes that there are supplies of energy that cannot be depleted; in practice, this energy is supplied from some source in the surrounding environment, which can be treated as infinite for the purposes of study. One type of open system is the so-called radiant energy system, which receives its energy from solar radiation – an energy source that can be regarded as inexhaustible for all practical purposes.
Closed systemhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_system
A closed system is a physical system which does not allow certain types of transfers (such as transfer of mass) in or out of the system. The specification of what types of transfers are excluded varies in the closed systems of physics, chemistry or engineering.
Isolated systemhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolated_system
In physical science, an isolated system is either (1) a thermodynamic system which is completely enclosed by walls through which can pass neither matter nor energy, though they can move around inside it; or (2) a physical system so far removed from others that it does not interact with them, though it is subject to its own gravity. Usually an isolated system is free from effects of long-range external forces such as gravity. The walls of an isolated thermodynamic system are adiabatic, rigid, and impermeable to matter.
This can be contrasted with what is called a closed system, which is selectively enclosed by walls through which energy but not matter can pass, and with an open system, which both matter and energy can enter or exit, though it may have variously impermeable walls in parts of its boundaries.
An isolated system obeys the conservation law that its total energy–mass stays constant.
Because of the requirement of enclosure, and the near ubiquity of gravity, strictly and ideally isolated systems do not actually occur in experiments or in nature. They are thus hypothetical concepts only.
Black boxhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box
In science, computing, and engineering, a black box is a device, system or object which can be viewed in terms of its inputs and outputs (or transfer characteristics), without any knowledge of its internal workings. Its implementation is "opaque" (black). Almost anything might be referred to as a black box: a transistor, algorithm, or the human brain.
The opposite of a black box is a system where the inner components or logic are available for inspection, which is most commonly referred to as a white box (sometimes also known as a "clear box" or a "glass box").