OverUnity Research

We have some really good information on the Briefcase Device

Primary Coil 5 Turns
Secondary Coil 10 Turns each coil and there are 2 coils.
Primary caps used 2 0.2uF 4000V caps
Secondary Cap 0.047uF 6kV

Large metal caps are either 2kv 8uF or 8kv 2uF

Curious Peter,

Why is this device referred to as the briefcase device?

.99

Hi Poynt

Don had a device he wheeled around in a briefcase that he supposedly used as a working traveling demonstration,he referred to this model as the briefcase version in one of the videos so i guess this must be it.

Peter

Hi Peter.

I was curious because yesterday I watched all 19 video clips on Youtube and he shows his suitcase model that he takes traveling with him. The unit you have been working on that has a lot of information available is not this suitcase model of his. He had the board-mounted version there at the Tesla Symposium as well, but it was not powered up. He claims that the suitcase model is a 1/4 scaled-down version of the board-mount device, but he refuses to show the suitcase model.

One can't help but get the feeling Don is faking it all after watching that video. It was humorous to watch him squirm when the audience pressured him. They pretty much had him for lunch. Sorry mate, he talks and acts like a shyster.

His neon transformer faux pas introduces a lot of suspicion into the whole deal, and he seems to push this issue quite a bit. No one took up his offer to read the label and do the calculation. They probably didn't have the heart to tell the guy he was wrong about his  neon transformer being an OU device.

The final nail in the coffin for me was when he first refused to run his device off 100W bulbs for the duration of 4 minutes, then when the guys came back with some of their own 100W bulbs and had them installed, his unit's output voltage started declining within a few minutes of powering ON, all the while Don was saying that the output voltage would correct itself by increasing, but it only continued to decrease, clearly indicating that the 12V battery powering the suitcase device was indeed not recharging as Don claims it does.

It appears Don is another "magniworks" type guy. Hope I'm wrong.

.99

Hi all,

Firstly, thanks for inviting me onto this forum.

I too have read quite a bit about Don Smith and his claims. His video presentation with the suitcase unit and light bulbs was not convincing. His claim that the neon lighting transformer is OU is quite frankly ridiculous and he either does not understand how the manufacturer rates the device and really believes what's written on the label, or else he is trying to mislead people!

Hoppy

I might add that it has been almost 15 years since that Tesla Symposium in 1996, and none of Don's predictions have come true, those being that his units would be commercially available in Japan and in EU, and that the North American auto makers were dead in the water because of his technology. As far as I know, none of his units are used anywhere in the world, in particular north American vehicles etc.

.99

smith Hi guys
This doesn't surprise me really LOL
I have not yet had the time to watch those videos above that stprue kindly gave me the links to put up, ut i also have 2 dvd videos
Don's inventors weekend 2001 and Don Smith interview and workshop.

There are so many inaccuracy's in his data in one video he says a cap is a certain value and the camera zooms in and you can read the value a totally different value.

Still it's been good fun replicating so far, one thing i have found that he said is correct, that moving the primary coil by sliding it through the secondary coil, alters the primary and secondary resonant frequency by the same amount, and therefore acts as a frequency control for the device, i am hoping to make a video of this ar some point.

Peter

Quote from: poynt99 on 2009.12.14, 17:49:54
I might add that it has been almost 15 years since that Tesla Symposium in 1996, and none of Don's predictions have come true, those being that his units would be commercially available in Japan and in EU, and that the North American auto makers were dead in the water because of his technology. As far as I know, none of his units are used anywhere in the world, in particular north American vehicles etc.

.99

Doesn't that seem to be a trend!

Unfortunately it's a trend that has existed for a while and may not change.

If Don is a fake, I have to give him credit for being one of the better ones I've seen, in terms of how nicely built his devices are, and how much effort he has put into documents etc. At the same time, I understand that there is a lot of obfuscation, whether intentional or not, but it's there.

Nonetheless, I look forward to seeing Peter's replication of the board-mounted unit develop.

.99

@Peter,

You´ve mentioned that the L1 and L2 both change resonance to the same f when using the sliding adjustment between the two.

How are you measuring the resonance, how are you connecting things to test resonance of L1 and L2, somethilng like the pic below (ignore spark gap).

Fraser,

My suggestion to Peter for measuring the resonant frequency of any coil, especially high frequency air-core coils, is to manually connect the coil using a hand-controlled bare wire connection to the supply terminal, while having a scope probe (either shorted to its ground lead or not) in a fixed position near the coil. The oscilloscope would be set to trigger on an edge to capture the ringing after the wire is disconnected.

The natural resonant ringing frequency of the coil should be evident, and will not be skewed by the probe capacitance if the probe was directly connected as shown.

.99

Quote from: poynt99 on 2009.12.15, 00:48:18
Fraser,

My suggestion to Peter for measuring the resonant frequency of any coil, especially high frequency air-core coils, is to manually connect the coil using a hand-controlled bare wire connection to the supply terminal, while having a scope probe (either shorted to its ground lead or not) in a fixed position near the coil. The oscilloscope would be set to trigger on an edge to capture the ringing after the wire is disconnected.

The natural resonant ringing frequency of the coil should be evident, and will not be skewed by the probe capacitance if the probe was directly connected as shown.

.99

OK, so impulse response picked up by nearby probe.

Do you know if he observed single freq ringdown from his coaxial aircoil assembly? That´s what I´m guessing he´s saying, if so then that´s neat!

Hi Fraser
I have not managed to use the test method provided by Poynt yet my spark arresters seem short circuit that will teach me to buy from ebay LOL

So far i used my sig gen to sweep until it showed a maximun amplitude across the primary and secondary coils.
The next test will involve sparking the primary with my low power HV PSU and sniff with a remote probe and do a spectral plot of the noise surrounding the device.

also i have one of those electrical testers for sniffing mains power, the one Don uses in one of the videos and driving the primary coil and using this tester it beeps about 18 inches all around the device.

Not really spent much time on the tests yet, as i have been getting the site up, i want to reconfigure my secondary caps, at the moment i have 5 x 1uf 2500v oil caps in parallel ut will drop one of them and then set up 2 banks of 2 1uf caps in series with each other to give me secondary storage of 1uF @ 5kv.

Not sure if you have yet noticed but i bought the book Don mentions and scanned the first chapter and have put it up on the info page.

Peter

OK, nice one peter. I have tried the sniffing method, but of course my HV supply was in the mix, I have yet to try a hand triggered impulse, I should do because I have DSO. It will tell me what just the coil assembly is doing.

No I hadn´t noticed the book scan, I will read that chapter, thanks for scanning it!

Am I wrong in thinking this looks incomplete?

Like where is the cap between both ends of L2?

Where is the threshold device between the output of L2 and the diodes, allowing L2 and L1 to ring up back and forth to a certian level with harmonics of the RF of L1, 1/4 L2, 1/2 L2 and everything they produce as a byproduct , before overflowing into the big cap banks..

I think parts are missing..

This is where his coils came from but the coils he used are smaller than the ones listed in stock now:

http://www.bwantennas.com/coils/aduxlex.htm (http://www.bwantennas.com/coils/aduxlex.htm)

another

Coil Don used is 3064 on the page http://www.bwantennas.com/coils/mini.htm

Really? Where did you find that info?

I thought it was an Airdux model that was no longer made in that configuration..

In one of his presentations he mentioned that he was using  Barker & Williamson coil 3 inches in diameter. He said that he removed few turns in the middle. It's only coil that matches his description in  Barker & Williamson.

Dont quote me as fact, but i remember one of the guys calling Barker & Williamson to find out the exact items don was ordering and it turned out the part number was no longer produced, but B&W were considering putting it back in their product line.. probably because of all the don smith reproductions lol..
I have not called them but im sure they could give the specs on his exact coil..


for example if  the inductance of L1 is around 3uh , at 0.2uf it would be 205khz and 1/2 of l2 would be 12.75uh , at 0.047uf it would be 205khz minus some correction for self capacitance and then its time to hunt down the resistors to work on the reactance of the " Isolation Transformer " i.e. tesla coil. From what I have figured so far it looks like the other half of the L2 would resonate at the 9th harmonic of the first half of L2... Strange thought but i wonder if he is slowing down the voltage to the same speed of the current ... if that is possible..

In any case, table top device we are playing with never was demonstrated as functioned one.  :-[

Dons Diodes

Varo Quality Semiconductor, Inc.

After snapping up Mooresville, North Carolina-based General Microcircuits, Inc., and Orange, California-based Distributed Microtechnology, Inc., in 1988, Microsemi rounded out the decade by acquiring Sertech Labs, Inc., and Microsemi Assembly and Test, Inc., in 1989. That year, sales reached a record $104 million. The company also acquired Garland, Texas-based Varo Quality Semiconductor, Inc., in 1989 and changed Varo's name to Micro Quality Semiconductor, Inc.


I think they are VF25-25x   25kv 25ma fast recovery 2" long 0.3 diameter

No longer made, just these : http://www.microsemi.com/support/searchlist.asp?MN=440&QUERY=high+voltage+rectifier&image1.x=0&image1.y=0 (http://www.microsemi.com/support/searchlist.asp?MN=440&QUERY=high+voltage+rectifier&image1.x=0&image1.y=0)

Dons secondary capacitor


ASC Capacitors
Capacitor, Metallized Polyester; 0.047uF; Axial; 6000VDC; +/-10%; 0.74In.Dia.; 2.664I    8400v@pulse
Mfr's Part#:    X675-.047-10-6000
Allied Stk#:    225-6165

Dons primary capacitor

Part# : KMS1A402104K date code 7702

last item in the chart below

This is a really really good capacitor!!


http://www.customelec.com/highvoltagelanding.htm (http://www.customelec.com/highvoltagelanding.htm)

Dons Inverter

Radioshack 22-132 140w modified sine wave inverter 

This inverter came with three different label styles but it was all the same device

Dons NST

BERTONEE NPS-? ? ? ? Transformer : center tap ground unit with no ground fault


http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=8OYeAAAAEBAJ&dq=Patent+5430635 (http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=8OYeAAAAEBAJ&dq=Patent+5430635)


The VT 6030-120 is the replacement model when it changed to VENTEXTECH but this model is not center tap ground

http://www.ventextech.com/#gen3!Indoor Units (http://www.ventextech.com/#gen3!Indoor%20Units)


I have three different compact electronic NST's and I can not get any of them to arc to ground without shutting down the nst, I guess it is a ground fault safety feature

Quote

tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
The problem is solid state trannys (SSTs) have both ground fault and
open circuit protection.  Basically if the load doesn't look
something like a neon tube, the tranny trips.  If you want to go
inside and defeat the protection, the Allanson is probably the
easiest POS (piece o' s..t).  Just a crappy little 555 square wave
generator banging a couple of power mos-fets.  The gf protection is
the center tap return brought through a toroid transformer with the
secondary feeding a simple 1 transistor level detector.  The ENABA
10kv tranny has erratic to non-existant GF protection.  You could
take a chance but it is potted so if you get one that works, you're
SOL.

Next, SSTs are rather intolerant of reactive loads.  The mfrs warn
in large text to minimize the capacitive loading.  Capacitive, in
this case is the few pF represented by the GTO wire in conduit and
the tubing above the sign ground plane.  Whereas a magnetic tranny
will simply reflect reactive current out to the power line, SSTs
tend to dissipate the reactive power in the transformer and power
transistors.  That is, if the reactive power doesn't cause the
transistors to fire when they shouldn't and let all the blue smoke
leak out.

The last consideration is that SSTs don't output their nameplate
voltage.  They output voltage to light an equivalent amount of
tubing.  Since high freq drives neon better than 60 hz, the voltage
is lower.  A typical 9kv tranny will produce 5-6kv.

Seems to me it would be a bunch easier to breadboard a switching HV
power supply using a 555, a SMPS power mosfet or two and one of the
low impedance auto ignition coils such as the HEI coil.  More power
capability and none of the stuff needed to make 'em live on neon to
have to defeat.

John

--
John De Armond
johngdSPAMNOT-at-bellsouth-dot-net
Neon John's Custom Neon
Cleveland, TN
"Bendin' Glass 'n Passin' Gas"

I dont have the specks on the choke but this will give you a point of reference

Comparable Choke


2 section 10 MHy Each

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.02.09, 04:42:07
Dons NST

BERTONEE NPS-? ? ? ? Transformer : center tap ground unit with no ground fault


I have three different compact electronic NST's and I can not get any of them to arc to ground without shutting down the nst, I guess it is a ground fault safety feature

Hey Darkspeed,

The last line - you couldnt get it arc to its center tap "ground" without shutting down or earth ground? I believe center tapped earth grounded nst might be a big contributor to this setup in a first place. In his words talking about his nst: "....earth ground is required or you will not get any amps...." also when you look at his "commercial" unit as he calls it we can see a big "old fashion" magnetic nst feeding those 3 tri-var caps solely, without any other obvious amplification coils...

This is just my opinion from what I was able to observe


Let me know what you thiink


Regards Minde

Hi Minde,

Im not sure the primary has to have an earth ground to cause the effect, in a tesla system it does not..

The reason he was using center tap in the electronic nst was so he could get 70khz out of it .. ( my opinion )

If each ac output had a diode on it ( which it does ) and he was dumping to centertap his 35khz ac would come out 70 khz dc.

I dont know what he was doing with the three phase caps on the magnetic nst.. unless he was just using the magnetic nst at 120hz and then setting the pulse rate using one half of the three phase cap. I think the three phase cap is actually two caps in one can.

I have spent A LOT of time running nst's from inverters and there is a limit to what you can get out of them. There is a point that  - even with a terry filter , big resistors , PFC capacitors - that the feedback into the inverter will smoke it or trip it off. The dimmers work much better on the magnetic nst's and on the electronic nst's they will only reduct the output by about 20%

In my opinion the only part of the Don Smith system that has to have a solid ground is the part that has been covered with correcting fluid lol...

The frequency ( in the mhz range ) and the voltage he refers to is not congruent with the coils shown... ie.. i think there is a high turns coil missing from the system..

Ds

if you are right about the 70khz then maybe the plan should be to drive a number of hv coils , either line output transformers or ignition coils or any high voltage transformer, and fire each coil one after the other @35khz if thats possible, so to get 70khz we could have 2 sequential transformers firing one after the other, we could even add more stages to increase the fire rate, maybe drive them from a 4017 or ripple counter, this way in theory we could potentially drive a coil at the resonant frequency say 200khz and upto 30kv using line outputs transformers, not sure what we would use for the caps at this voltage, but we could adjust the primary turns on the transformer to bring it down to anything we wanted say 7kv.

Maybe we could have a bank of 7kv flash trigger transformers 10 of them and fire them from a 4017 Johnson counter to obtain 200khz ish and adjust the master frequency to tune for resonance.

This sounds like a great psu to build certainly would come in handy for a lot of this resonance stuff, what we need are some cheap and small HV coils we can hook 10 up

Peter

Hi Peter,

Honestly I think if you over drive it you will kill it..

Think of it this way

The nst, gap,cap,and primary are just the exciter, they are not the source of power, they create the required modulation.

The second coil ( which i think is not shown ) has a stout ground wire and between the ground wire and the coil is a one-way device.

The primary excites the second coil and every time that resonant charge moves to one end of the second coil additional evergy is sucked in through the stout ground.

( or depending on how you look at it, energy is pumped down to ground drawing in additional energy from the surrounding enviroment )

This additional energy is  loosley resonatly coupled to the third ( pair ) of coils one biased for voltage and one biased for amperage

The reason i dont think you can put over 5kv on the primary is the top of the grounded second coil will hit many many kv like a tesla secondary

Its a Tesla Magnifier Transmitter and Tesla Magnifier Receiver all in one axis

This is all my best guess but it is the direction i am moving

If I had to guess he was hitting the primary with 70khz and the primary tank was 210khz

so maybe the second coil was running at 840khz or 1050khz ( 1.05mhz now we are in the mhz range like we should be )

And each half of the third coil was tanked at 210khz -- i think there is a cap missing there too..

If those diodes are in fact 25kv they should take the hit from the top coil ok and they should take a pulse current of a few amps or more from the bottom coil.

You can hit an 8kv pulse cap with a short 20kv pulse without killing it.. the choke on output is starting to make more sence..

If I really wanted to drive this thing hard without a nst I would connect a 2kv power source to a G-811 Triode ( russian version ) and try much higher base frequencies

@Ds

Makes me wonder if you have seen all of his videos.. or probably you just dont recall it. At one point he crearly talks about his NST and definately emphasizes that "earth ground comes in here (finger pointing is not visible on camera..)or you will not get any amps...."
Another point: there is a rumor that one should not connect earth ground to nst due to possible dangerous power level buildup... I believe there has got to be some reason for it. Let me know if you have hear about this.

Myself I have 60khz 7kv 10ma DC pulser... and there is no way I can make my primary tank to resonate from it.  Probably psu a little underpowered?.. not sure..it does not couple... 60khz should couple with (1:1 or 1:3) 60khz or 180khz primary resonant frequencies but it just doesnt happen for now. Need better cap or different psu or slightly different component values.

Minde

I have seen them  ;D

In the Tesla world.. one should not connect nst center tap to ground because it makes the case of the nst a live potential which can shock the crap out of you if you happen to be touching it..

I think he is refering to the part that has been removed from the device and he is pointing in a general direction... but i could be wrong...

Minde,

are you using a variable cap?

Some of the tuning on this stuff is very narrow range..

How are you testing for resonance? If you over drive a coil the resonant peak will never show up on a scope it will just wash out..

you can impact excite a circuit (including a coil with a little self-capacitance) into it's own resonant frequency

then the power supply caps and transformer are not a factor in the resonance of the circuit as thay are not connected when it rings

Good point G!

So the transformer is behind the spark gap so the primary wont see it, the primary only sees the primary coil & cap

It's interesting that everyone is having trouble getting the primary to resonate, i have tried pulsing (50nS Pulse) @125v and the only way the primary does and the only time i get anything is when i drive it at the resonant frequency not below and even then i dont get a huge amplitude sine wave, probably because the power level of the 50nS pulse is small.
So far i had blamed my caps as being no good, but now i am not so sure about this.

I think my next move is maybe to build a 1kv or 2kv psu that can pulse upto 250khz, at least with this i can scan and see which works.

I wonder if it's possible to use a high voltage transistor in an oscillator circuit that uses the coil and cap to set the resonant frequency, a bu2508af is good for 1500 i think

The problem is - my primary tank LC has natural resonant freq of some 150khz when I tested with signal genny. So my psu will not couple with it. I either have to reduce psu frequency (its drven by 2 555 timers so I will look at that) or readjust primary cap or inductor in order to make it resonate @ 180khz. I might just spread L1 windings a bit since cap replacement is not an option to my pocket . The only largest adjustable caps I have are 1nf or less .. and here we work with .1uF range caps so adjustability is out of the question. Inductor is cheap and easy. I will try that and see how it goes.

Now when it comes to a charging quater wave length coil - for 180khz is has to have some 3500 feet long wire - thats 2.2 pounds awg 27 or 7 pounds of awg 22 wire. Sounds big...

Minde



   

Looks like everybody here got the same problem as I'm having. Here is schema that I found http://users.tkk.fi/jwagner/tesla/SSTC/selfreso-sstc-demo.htm, it just an idea. I'm thinking to use 555 timer and MOSFET driver (should get it soon). On which side of spark gap better to use mosfet - ground or HV side?

@Peterae - 125v wont work as far as i know . I think 3kv - 7kv is the way to go


@mlurye - iv never seen a mosfet drive a spark gap..


@minde4000 - get some $15 5-200pf wide spacing variable caps on ebay and submerge them in some transformer oil or make some variable inductors but the cap is the way to go..

@DS

When it comes to caps I have these:    http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=29.0;attach=344

They are huge in size and small in capacistance .. too small for this setup I think.. unless use large inductors to stay in khz or one wants to go into mhz range.. but then how to rectify those mhz signals?

Minde

Little observation I made.
If lamp is placed between ground and lowest end of secondary coil (opposite one with cap) 12V lamp is steadily lighted (depends on gap size on primary side)

@minde4000

I love parts from the motherland  8)

You have a 1000pf, 250pf, 100pf ? am i close?

Well if the primary was around 3uh and had a 0.2uf cap on it the frequency would be around    205.468 kHz

If you added the 1000pf unit at +5pf the frequency would be 205.466 kHz and at +1000pf the frequency would be 204.956 kHz

So your tune range would be about 510hz

The lower the primary inductance the more effect it will have on tuning

Some tuning is better than no tuning!

Tuning.. If you get a stack of 1000pf (.001uf) caps, every time you run out of range on your variable cap just add one of the 1000pf caps and turn your variable back to zero and start again till you get to where you want to be

@mlurye - Good! Thats your Amperage biased end of the system..

50-1000pf 10kv     -     20-350pf 10kv      -     5-50pf 25kv

Well if you take 205khz and have a tunning "window" of only 540hz - its only 0.25% of frequency used - this would mean that the rest of your system must be originaly built-tuned to 99.75%  :P
Not too practical..

Like you said inductor should be of a lower inductance for cap to be more effective and gain larger tunning "window" but this means higher frequency. Also not all of the cap types will tolarete higher frequencies withouts getting hot and lossy.

Your suggested cap stack probably the way to go.

Minde

Il save you a lot of trouble... dont tune anything until you have all the coils in position and firmly mounted.

Just putting coils in proximity of each other will change the resonant frequency of all the tanks..

I had to learn that one the hard way..  :P

By the way I use these and have never killed one.. try a number of the 942C20S1K-F in a string to get the voltage/uf you are looking for.

Your other option is to use a roller inductor in line, you can turn them like a variable capacitor.

DarkSpeed

>"Your other option is to use a roller inductor in line, you can turn them like a variable capacitor."
--------------------------
Very Cool..........,Very

Chet

Surely if we start using a variable inductor inline we are going to start loosing efficiency as there will be resonant energy dissipated away from the secondary coil that we are trying to transfer to.

A cool device non the less  ;)

Don provided the best way to tune, by pulling the primary position in and out, my secondarys are pretty closely tuned using the cap values that don specified, and even the untuned secondary that should have a much high resonant frequency sings when i tune my primary is resonant.

The problem we are having is driving the primary at a great enough amplitude to get power transfer, we either need a better way to get that primary singing or find a center tapped NST like he used

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.02.10, 21:41:55
Good point G!

So the transformer is behind the spark gap so the primary wont see it, the primary only sees the primary coil & cap

and the hammer that strikes it!

You don't strike a Liberty Bell with a tack hammer and you don't strike a sleigh bell bell with a sledge hammer.

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.02.10, 20:18:05
Hi Peter,

Honestly I think if you over drive it you will kill it..

Think of it this way

The nst, gap,cap,and primary are just the exciter, they are not the source of power, they create the required modulation.

The second coil ( which i think is not shown ) has a stout ground wire and between the ground wire and the coil is a one-way device.

The primary excites the second coil and every time that resonant charge moves to one end of the second coil additional evergy is sucked in through the stout ground.

( or depending on how you look at it, energy is pumped down to ground drawing in additional energy from the surrounding enviroment )

This additional energy is  loosley resonatly coupled to the third ( pair ) of coils one biased for voltage and one biased for amperage

The reason i dont think you can put over 5kv on the primary is the top of the grounded second coil will hit many many kv like a tesla secondary

Its a Tesla Magnifier Transmitter and Tesla Magnifier Receiver all in one axis

This is all my best guess but it is the direction i am moving

Quote from: Peterae on 2010.02.10, 22:32:24
It's interesting that everyone is having trouble getting the primary to resonate, i have tried pulsing (50nS Pulse) @125v and the only way the primary does and the only time i get anything is when i drive it at the resonant frequency not below and even then i dont get a huge amplitude sine wave, probably because the power level of the 50nS pulse is small.
So far i had blamed my caps as being no good, but now i am not so sure about this.

I think my next move is maybe to build a 1kv or 2kv psu that can pulse upto 250khz, at least with this i can scan and see which works.

I wonder if it's possible to use a high voltage transistor in an oscillator circuit that uses the coil and cap to set the resonant frequency, a bu2508af is good for 1500 i think

Impact excitation rate may or may not coincide with the resonant frequency of the primary.

If taking the "the power supply is separate" approach, then you want a large reservoir cap to keep the voltage high during the pulse and a fast switch.  If your switching device can not handle the voltage , then place them in series.  You can review spark gap transmitters for some related details, but this is a little different.

Also, once again: no shock wave = no curious effect

http://www.capturedlightning.org/hot-streamer/TeslaCoils/Misc/PracticalMagnifierConstructionPrinciples.pdf

one page 9 you will see this:

The driver is composed of the primary and secondary coils. This is not a
resonant system! This is not a Tesla coil. This is a low impedance, tightly
coupled, oscillation transformer, fully obeying simple transformer action
whose output frequency is determined by the primary tune and secondary
frequency splitting. Nothing is resonating here as quarter of half wave line!

I posted this a long time ago on OU:

"Resonance" is only a means to obtain very high voltage.  (I understand now that this is not entirely true, but suffices to get the point across.)

TFC Books has a book that details a lengthy interview between Tesla and his Attorneys:
http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/nt_on_ac.htm

On page 100 of that book Tesla states the following:

QuoteThere are two ways in which you can operate if you have a reciever of that kind.  (Tesla is refering to his system depicted in patent 645,576) One is by linking, closely, your working circuit with the primary excited circuit.  The other is by linking it loosely, and then working up the pressure by resonance.  You will find that you can do much better, if you have such a device, to produce the necessary pressure by turns, than by resonant rise, because if you want to excite it by resonance you have to link only a few lines; start with a very low electromotive force and work it up.  But, if you have such a device as I have described, you can obtain any pressure you like by a few secondary turns.  I have invented such an instrument and have demonstrated its efficacy.

So, just like Richard Hull found out in his own experiments, resonant rise will only get you so far.  It's just a means to an end, and not necessarily the best means.

Resonance is many things: power amplification, current 90 degree seperation from voltage wich could be exploited into non reflective power transfer, stading wave creation..... zero point and antinode... a way to minimize losses of energy routing... and etc

Its all really good and all really a must ... 

Funny approach there Grumpy...   

 
Now we are getting somewhere  ;D


 "Resonance" is the means to get all available energy at that time in sync and crammed to one end of a coil allowing additional energy to be sucked in to fill the  "energy vacuum " at the other end a-la node / antinode..



     "Nature abhors a vacuum" - but check valves love one! dont let what you have earned escape  ;)

What resonance "is", is just as important as what resonance "isn't".

Resonance is a means to an end, but it is not the Holy Grail of OU.

The means to get the additional energy is the shockwave interacting with another field in the vacinity of a collector.

The Grump said,
"The means to get the additional energy is the shockwave interacting with another field in the vacinity of a collector".

Somebody that already knows that!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPrGxB1Kzc

Chet

too bad I can't see youtube stuff...  :(

It's a video of a pistol shrimp firing it's claw

It was a vido on the "Pistol shrimp" when it snaps its claw it creates a shockwave that disables its prey

JINX! I think we were typing that at the same time...

Oh yeah!  Saw that one.  I recall sonoluminsence associated with that in some way.

The more I play with this the more interesting it becomes.

Gives me a welcome break from kicking my own ass with big magnets  ;D

Increasing the diameter of an inductor does some interesting things.... Could a flat wide version of this be the TPU??

looking at the coil from the ground end it is wound clockwise..... it follows electron spin - one way volts one way amps

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.02.12, 03:43:59
looking at the coil from the ground end it is wound clockwise..... it follows electron spin - one way volts one way amps

counter-clockwise looking down

Grumpy, do you have any input on Dons component between L2 and ground.

He called it by three names " Ground on-off switch " " Voltage Shunt " " Radio frequency variable capacitor "

I think it is one of the means of keeping the energy from flowing in and then flowing back out = 0

At first I thought it may be a high amp diode..

If its a variable capacitor is he using the fact it will conduct when the charge crosses zero?

Any ideas?

post the circuit

page 104 of the resonance energy methods book list this device as a varister (and has 480v @ 60 amps next to it).



EDIT:

in this diagram: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=179.msg1656#msg1656

Don shows a variable capacitor between the inductor (L2?) and ground.  MAybe it is really across the inductor to tune the resonant frequency.  Tesla performed several test using this sort of approach and found it detrimental to the desired effect.

How can the coil be "reactive" when there is almost no electron flow at all?  Anyone thinking an impact excited coil is explained by simple LC resonance should take another look.

Grumpy notice the directional arrow just above the variable capacitor..

I have some more diagrams i will get them loaded..

it is like an energy check valve

In a tesla system the top load capacitor on the secondary is virtually across the secondary because the base of the secondary is coupled to ground and the top of the top load capacitor is virtually coupled to ground..


specifically negative grounding, ie your grounding area has a surplus of electrons to come up through the check valve

I think i have come to the conclusion that a classic rotary spark gap can drive the primary.
This solves a lot of confusion with the nst.
Just pulse the tank from the nst through the rotary.
The tank will ring at its RF

This is if I can get the arc short enough and to happen at a preferable time

NST > ROTARY > TANK

Did anybody try to play with Casimir Effect demonstrated by Don in "Don Smith Resonant Energy Devices Video"?
I think 2 metal plates and dielectric between is missing component in Don's desktop device.

I had it like tesla primary with gap in serial and I get a nice jolt with nice ringdown but only 50 firings per second. Resonance will never be sustained. Only individual bursts of power.  I have posted scope shots on my bench of these "individual" ringdown waves.  This method should work as energy amplifier too however don smith resonance was a little different - it was sustained.

We might have to tune tank to nst frq. BTW I already tied that with my 7000VDC 10ma pulser with variable freq 45khz-75khz. Cannot get sustained resonance. Little psu spikes on scope but almost no response from LC.  Appears like psu amp output is way to weak for my tank electrical properties or inductor too lossy for my psu or cap too large... not sure yet.

Minde

There may be some load limit.. i.e. you have to leave enough energy in the tank for it to keep going

cant light a fire in a strong wind

but a strong wind will fuel a fire

Inside the Neon Dimmer

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.02.14, 08:53:18

Inside the Neon Dimmer

Is this the actual dimmer don used ?

Just an idea, I wonder if someone in the US would give Ventex a ring and try and squeeze them for the Technical info on the NST maybe a Schematic and info on the transformer turns ect, maybe i could make some pcb's up and we could then build the NST from scratch.

Peter

It is the same model he used " Pass & Seymour Legrand "3A / 360 VA Neon Max. model 90360

These models came with a number of different faceplates.

This is a Neon specific dimmer.

If you think it is worth it I can spec out the parts in it.


About the NST.. I did some more digging and found out that when the ground fault requirement came out, the tesla coil group figured out how to modify a 'non potted' electronic nst by removing its ground fault protection and adding a stud through the case connected to the coils center tap. All electronic nst's have a center tap but there is a ground fault protection circuit attached to it.

@Peterae

I have not been able to find the exact part number on that nst he used with the dimmer / inverter..

Do you know what it is?

Hi ds

Sorry i forgot i have never heard anyone mention the exact model number which would help LOL

I have just gone over the 2 HQ vids i have and it is difficult to tell exactly, it looks like NPS 12D-4030 it's 120V 0.8 AMP 4KV 30MA

I can definitely see the 12D- but the 4030 is slightly blurred so not 100% but i guess that number does make sense 4kv @30ma.

It's definitely a 4 digit code.

Hi Peterae,

The Bertonee, NPS - 12D8 is a 12vdc model that Don used in some of his devices, but not the suitcase model.

The suitcase model used a 120vac version but i have not been able to find the part number, and there is the possibility he modofied it to have a center tap rather than a ground fault circuit

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.02.12, 20:54:35
Grumpy notice the directional arrow just above the variable capacitor..

I have some more diagrams i will get them loaded..

it is like an energy check valve

In a tesla system the top load capacitor on the secondary is virtually across the secondary because the base of the secondary is coupled to ground and the top of the top load capacitor is virtually coupled to ground..


specifically negative grounding, ie your grounding area has a surplus of electrons to come up through the check valve

I think the variable cap could be across the secondary and give the same results.  You don't have to pull electrons from the ground (earth), they are all around if you can convert them - pull them into reality, so-to-speak.

The Tesla system also has a reciever to be complete.  The top terminal is coupled to this reciever (which most people neglect to build).  Connect the transmitter and reciever directly without the top load and the ground and it will work.  I think Meyl pointed this out in his book.

Hmm - I don't see Don's reciver.  Also, he talks of converting the energy but not of converting it back to conventional current.

In regards tot the DS2.jpg page, the number of electrons does not determine voltage.   I find it very curious that Don never mentions any of the curious things that effect these systems: time of day, longitude position, solar flares, etc. (I suspect barometric pressure may also effect things).

In short, I think Don was a good BS'er.   If you want a Tesla Magnifier, just build one.

DarkSpeed

I don't know if you followed user"bolt"'s contribution at O.U.
Bolt: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7679.msg191884#msg191884
"Use ONLY air coils. NEVER put anything inside and this will just dampen the ambient electron energy. You need to get HT supply into RF domain. > 50Khz better 1 meg or higher.

No more time for speculation and arguing about this if you do it right you get extreme OU. The finer details to be worked out on the bench for precise coil dimensions but if you stick to the tesla /don smith teachings you can light up 1 or 50 light bulbs with really simple systems."

"RE is RF as energized field excites local electrons in air, ground, space and returns magnetic flux."

"As Don Smith says "the electricity you pay for is simply a signature copy from the generating plant to move your electrons in your house! They did NOT travel from the power plant." Please remember this because electrons are everywhere already you only have to learn how to move them using volts and when they return to natural place current will flow as an AFTER effect IF required for free. Volts are Joules and they become watts later if a load is applied which allows electrons to flow back to the air or ground or wherever they came from."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqiYDxMsayw
He shared some interesting observations in that thread.

Chet

[thanks "Wings" for the reminder]

When you strike a tuning fork on a hard surface, or expose it to sound waves of it's fundamental freq (or harmonic), momentum is transferred to the fork.

How does an sudden impulse actually excite a coil into vibration?  What's really going on around the coil?

Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.02.15, 13:18:42

In regards tot the DS2.jpg page, the number of electrons does not determine voltage.   I find it very curious that Don never mentions any of the curious things that effect these systems: time of day, longitude position, solar flares, etc. (I suspect barometric pressure may also effect things).

In short, I think Don was a good BS'er.   If you want a Tesla Magnifier, just build one.

Well iv gone out on a limb here and decided for the moment to believe that he did find some effect.
I think a lot of people find a strange and sometimes useful effects and then have to figure out a way to explain the results.
No one has the balls to just say " I have no freaking idea how it works " because then they could not claim ownership of it.

When i set out to replicate something i never have in mind that i will get it work.. but i am always excited about the other things i may find along the way..

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.02.15, 19:21:33

Well iv gone out on a limb here and decided for the moment to believe that he did find some effect.
I think a lot of people find a strange and sometimes useful effects and then have to figure out a way to explain the results.
No one has the balls to just say " I have no freaking idea how it works " because then they could not claim ownership of it.

When i set out to replicate something i never have in mind that i will get it work.. but i am always excited about the other things i may find along the way..

There are several others that probably did find some effect, such as Tesla, Grey, Moray, Dollard, SM, and Hooper.

EDIT:

DS - are you just trying to understand what Don was saying or are you looking for a real energy source?

EDIT2:

I can not help but wonder who sparked Don along this path.  His article "Ultimate Energy Sources" brings up several good and interesting topics:  magnetic waves, action at a distance, catalyst-collector-pump, etc.

Im ultimately trying to understand what Don left out of the device he displayed.

And from there im looking for a real energy source.

He seemed like he knew his stuff but maybe his mind was starting to slip a little tword the end there.

All these people are pre- internet and i would have to assume that a lot of great ideas and concepts fell through the cracks..

I would also have to assume a lot of these inventors were not the originators of some of the concepts the claim as their own.

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.02.15, 21:36:35
Im ultimately trying to understand what Don left out of the device he displayed.

And from there im looking for a real energy source.

He seemed like he knew his stuff but maybe his mind was starting to slip a little tword the end there.

All these people are pre- internet and i would have to assume that a lot of great ideas and concepts fell through the cracks..

I would also have to assume a lot of these inventors were not the originators of some of the concepts the claim as their own.

After reading more of Don's articles, I have the impression that he was trying to explain something that he was told "worked", but he himself did not know exactly "how" it works.  I can relate to that.  I recall a conversation with an Engineer, many years ago, in which he explained that sometimes you have to base the validity of things on "blind faith".

If you compare all of the energy devices that are based on Tesla's work, they have some common features.  Impulse excitation, high voltage, high impedance, mass proportional to output in some way, energy conversion, and wierd inteactions with the universe.

Stumble enough in the dark and you will eventually fall in the right hole  ;D


Watch the part about the ground at 5:12 ;D

Earth is a good insulator and good conductor of dipole currents - like displacement current.

I wouldn't give ground too much credit in the scheme of things.   The TPU wasn't grounded at all.

I agree, ground is not required, but in the spirit of covering all your bases until you know exactly what you are doing, i think it cant hurt..

Today these Fellows said that they will be releasing A refined video very soon
Describing their "Success".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLI_erukoJ0

Chet

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.02.16, 01:59:19

I agree, ground is not required, but in the spirit of covering all your bases until you know exactly what you are doing, i think it cant hurt..

A source creates it's own ground reference when the dipole separates.  Like a battery, capacitor, or electret.

Have you noticed that there are two schools of thought? Resonant and non-resonant.

True! but dont you think ground potential even virtual ground potential is a function of available dissipation ( sink )

i.e. energized neon to ball bearing in space - weak glow but energized neon to engine block in space - strong glow

I think we perfect it connected to ground then deduce the optimum parameters for an ungrounded system.

Maybe there is some resonant function to make a virtual ground work as well as a 8' copper pipe in the ground. ;D

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.02.16, 19:33:00

True! but dont you think ground potential even virtual ground potential is a function of available dissipation ( sink )

i.e. energized neon to ball bearing in space - weak glow but energized neon to engine block in space - strong glow

I think we perfect it connected to ground then deduce the optimum parameters for an ungrounded system.

Maybe there is some resonant function to make a virtual ground work as well as a 8' copper pipe in the ground. ;D

I would expect a dipole current to split evenly into pos and neg charges, hence ground is just an inherent factor

After trying a number of electronic nst's in this configuration with a high voltage probe connected to the scope, im really surprised how much the frequency jumps around..

This is not a good thing if it is driving a tuned tank  ???

Maybe its time to back up and try a big triode

Tried a few more types tonight and I can get 70khz through a full bridge but the wave form and frequency drift are for crap.

Most of them if you measure across two cycles you get roughly 35khz but the first cycle will be around 60khz and the second cycle will be around 80khz.

There is also a nasty 60hz cycle mixed in.

The neon specific dimmer makes almost no difference in the output of the electronic nst.

The spark gap is very important! Without it the nst will shut down as it sees a short condition.

I dont see how this is capable of driving a tuned system.

If you used the nst to charge a capacitor and then used a triode to create a stable 70khz then I think it should work much better.

Maybe there is something like this hidden in the briefcase.

Don really seems to have given us a crap device to replicate LOL, we are all having the same trouble driving the primary.
I dont think these spark aressters are even capable of consistent sparking.

Hi Peterae,

You are correct about the spark arrestors.

The nst is not stable on its own and the arrestors make it worse.

I think my next step may be a rewound flyback driven from a good signal generator

Something like 70khz at 2-4kv

Seems like a good plan, i keep meaning to dig out my old Line transformer psu i built years ago for Lifter experiments and run that at low volts and see how it performs.

I can do it this way and it will work and it will resonate at the correct frequency but I have no way of controlling what phase the L2 is in when the spark gap in the L1 fires.

If they are not specifically in phase with each other there is a lot of wasted power and the pulse is not truly additive.

Looks like a spark gap negates the required phase control and the L1 needs to be truly driven at a frequency and a consistant phase

Im beginning to think that Dons parts on his exposed device were symbolic rather than exact components..

It may have been his way of heading us in the right direction, while others were stuck in the mud building it exactly as shown.

The other possibility is that his nst functioned much differently than modern nsts. - but i kind of doubt it.

I need to get my hands on a vintage 12vdc nst and perform all the same tests i did on the 120v nst

Relating to energy transfer in Don's primary

QuoteDoubling Lp and halving Cp in a given system, would leave the resonant frequency unchanged, but would double the surge impedance of the primary system. The result is a 50% reduction is the primary current which flows through the spark gap. Since the gap represents a constant voltage drop, this implies a 50% reduction in power dissipation in the spark gap.

Peterae, where is that quote from? Its interesting..

Doubeling the inductance of the primary Lp will also increase the self capacitance of Lp which will further decrease the required primary capacitance Cp.

The larger the primary capacitor Cp the greater the magnetic force in the primary impulse.
The longer the wire in the Lp the longer it takes to convert the current surge to a magnetic field.
This is one of the reasons Tesla used a low number of high resistance turns in his primarys ( some were even lead strap )

doesn't high resistance keeps more of the energy in the field and out of the wire longer?

I think it depends on the over all reactance.

Some people think DS was somehow canceling the reactance in the tank with a precision resistor.. How this works i dont know.

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.03.03, 02:15:27
I think it depends on the over all reactance.

Some people think DS was somehow canceling the reactance in the tank with a precision resistor.. How this works i dont know.

The greatest mistake that many make is to look at these circuits as only electromagnetic circuits, and totally ignore their longitudinal aspects and all that occurs before the electrons start to flow.

When you first complete the circuit (during the rise of the impulse) the universe around the coil goes through "adjustments" (some say the entire universe reacts, but I find that hard to believe) because you changed everything with your impulse.

There is already a sense of order to this local universe because fo the presence of the conductors, insulators and everything else. So, everything is already connected in some way.

Any change in mass or energy produces some form of radiation as the universe responds to the change.  In our case, this "radiation" is RE.  Do a little reading and you will find that changes in mass/energy are propagated longitudinally.

It is the excited coil that produces the RE effect.  More mass = greater effect.  If you try to excite the coil open-ended (not term in a cap or grounded) you can not polarize the conductor correctly to get the sudden change in mass/energy.  I don't think you can excite the vacuum into producing it or a dielectric.

There are three schools of thought currently debated in the public sector regarding how this works:
From: "The Connection Between Inertial Forces and the Vector Potential"
By:      Alexandre A. Martins1 and Mario J. Pinheiro2

QuoteINTRODUCTION
There have been numerous attempts to explain the origin of the inertia property of matter suggested qualitatively by
Galileo in his writings and later quantified by Newton (Jammer, 1961), although its conceptualization still remains
as an unclear resistance of mass to changes of its state of motion. Since the works of Kirchhoff, Mach, Hertz,
Clifford and Poincaré a set of logical objections were raised against Newton's laws mainly based on the significance
of mass and force (Eisenbud, 1958). Driven by a strong need to develop advanced space propulsion physics there are
studies that try to link inertia with gravitational interactions with the rest of the universe (Mach, 1989; Bridgman,
1961; Sciama, 1953), while others hypothesize that inertial forces result from an interaction of matter with
electromagnetic fluctuations of the zero point field (Sakharov, 1968; Puthoff, 1989; Haisch and Rueda, 1998) and,
finally, others that attribute inertia as the result of the particle interaction with its own field (Lorentz, 1992;
Abraham, 1902; Richardson, 1916; see also Ray (2004) for a general survey).

Now you can kind of see how mechanical vibration might also cause some interesting effects: Keely, Leedskalnin, Tesla's Mechanical Oscillator, etc.

What is the permittivity and permeability of vacuum during the impulse rise?  I've always wanted to know.

Sudden changes in these properties produce interesting responses.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.03.03, 19:22:26
What is the permittivity and permeability of vacuum during the impulse rise?  I've always wanted to know.

Sudden changes in these properties produce interesting responses.

Low concentrations of gas in a near vacuum can become great conductors if not super conductors.

I think a vacuum is an ideal enviroment for a resonant system! From what i know so far ;)

What kind of mechanical resistance to vibration does the air surrounding the coil create to a purely resonant system??

I often wondered if his coils were in a PCV vacuum chamber

Put a speaker in a pressure chamber and as the pressure increases so does the energy required to drive the speaker.

does a region of space, with permittivity greater than vacuum, behave like a dielectric separate from the surrounding space?

Same question for permeability, can you create a region of space that is a virtual magnet?

hi

Something i just read in one of Tesla's Doc's which maybe relevant

Quotewhen in a system of transmission of energy for any purpose through the natural media the transmitting and receiving conductors are connected to earth and to an insulated terminal, respectively, the lengths of these conductors should be one-quarter of the wave length of the disturbance propagated through them.

Peter

Quote from: Peterae on 2010.03.10, 19:46:15
Something i just read in one of Tesla's Doc's which maybe relevant


Peter

Peter,
just had dug up that patent again myself and it seems to be
key to Kapanadze´s and D. Smith´s Theories.
I personally trust Tesla many times more that Smith and Kapanadze vague descriptions.
Smith always talks about quarter length of the transformer coils in relation to each other, but
in regards to establish a dependency to the actual wavelength of the oscillation
it would be much more reasonable to consider the oscillation frequency in relation to the wire lengths
and that is what Tesla suggests.

Hey Xeno
Great to see you over here, yes that's a very interesting patent indeed, It was the first time i had read it and probably should read it a number of time's, i was amazed to here he was playing with cryogenics to increase the efficiency of his coil's, i don't know if it was just that i don't fully understand it yet but it all read like he was describing an over unity device, with pancake coils the way to go.

QuoteCoils in the form of a flat spiral, such as those described, are eminently suited for the production of free oscillations; but obviously conductors or circuits of any other form may be used, if desired.

http://www.tfcbooks.com/patents/0685012.htm

Peter

i just got my hands on a pre gfi electronic nst.

if it is not potted i will take it apart and see what the output looks like on the hv scope

This is based on some tests I am currently doing

THIS REEKS OF TPU

The pulse from the source through the spark gap must be dc

It must be quenched near the first notch to establish the standing wave

When pulsed, the direction of current flow in the primary will determine the location of the node and antinode of the standing wave in the secondary coil

This can be visualized as one end of the coil is at pressure and one end is at vacuume

If no direct ground connection is used, for the energy gain to manifest, the node must be facing the sky plane and the antinode must be facing the ground plane

With a standing wave established in a coil in this manner, turning the coil upside down will cancel the energy gain

I remember GK saying that one of SM's TPU's looked to have a stungun citcuit in it. 

Interesting!

@vunduo

This diagram is great but one big problem here - none of us could find a center tapped solid state nst.

It might be possible that center tapped earth grounded nst might put out bigger bang for a buck than the one ain't but where to get them? .. Bertonee obviously used to sell them but they aint around any more.
I also scoped my nst few days ago with hv probes... what a mess.. also 60hz mains freq distortions look very ugly.. creating like a huge "motherwave" on wich working 22khz in my case frequency waves ride on. The end result should work anyway would be a voltage swing but whatever.

If anyone know solid state HF center tapped nst please post.

Minde

The only center tap e-nst i have tested so far was a non-potted version that had been converted to center tap.

there is a little 555 circuit that looks for load imbalance and it is tied to a center tap within the case.
if you remove this safety circuit you then can put a screw stud through the side of the plastic case and connect it to center tap of the coil.

This may be what don did

no matter how you scope it the output is too nasty to drive a resonant system

from my experience connecting the primary to ground will not give you any extra power because it is a driven system

QuoteIf we place a quantity of electrical energy into the coil and do it quickly enough, the coil will ring at its natural resonant frequency, much like a bell. Voltage nodes and peaks will appear along the coil. If the coil is floating in free space, it will tend to oscillate at its natural 1/2-wavelength resonant frequency, and each end of the coil will exhibit a voltage peak while a voltage nodal point will exist in the exact center of the coil. If, however, we ground the base of the coil, this is a forced nodal point and the coil will oscillate at its natural 1/4-wave resonant frequency. The results will be enhanced if the energy is pulsed into the coil at its exact resonant frequency. The effect is called resonant rise, and the coil a helical resonator. A standing wave appears on the classic 1/4-wave resonator which has a current peak at its base or ground point and a current node at the top of the coil. Likewise, there exists a voltage nodal point at the ground or base of the coil and a voltage peak at the top. Resonant rise is a function of the current value at the base of the resonator and the "Q" or quality factor of the resonator. This quality factor is determined by the inductance of the coil, its resonant frequency and the AC resistive losses within the coil. This is all that enters into the equation as long as the coil is free and floating in the "perfect vacuum" of interstellar space! To my knowledge, no coil in history has ever completely satisfied the equation for Q!

In the real world, Q is most affected by the coil form that the wire is wound upon, specifically its composition and thickness. There is another "evil" with which Tesla did battle constantly, and never so boldly as when at Colorado Springs, that is known as inter-turn capacitance. In addition to self inductance, a coil of wire also has internal or distributed capacitance created by the proximity of the adjacent turns to one another. Each turn is like a small capacitor plate which interacts capacitively with each turn adjacent to itself. Both the form factor and the internal self capacitance work to reduce the resonator Q. Finally, near effects by things such as the ground, metal objects, etc., all conspire to make the real world Q an almost impossible value to calculate.

Why all the fuss about Q? This is what Tesla terms the "magnification factor" and is directly related to the efficiency of all Tesla coil or similar resonant systems. And, this is what makes a magnifying transmitter into the ultimate Tesla coil.

good answer EMdevices,

I think the quote was referring to hard to predict Q shift due to proximity to stray capacitance.  i.e. objects in the near field

Hey guys!

I hook up a little different.  From output of neon trans, 1 wire go thru the diode, and the positive of diode go to L1.  You got a lot pulsation like that.  If you hook up the ground to the negative of diode then you got more power.  For those with capacitors on L1, and L2, I think the results are greatly.

I use the cable tv wire, the cable core is L1, the mess wire and aluminum aroung the core is L2.

Let me know you results guys.

@ tranbinhtran

I use the cable tv wire, the cable core is L1, the mess wire and aluminum aroung the core is L2.

===================================================

That is VERY clever.  I haven't had any success with Don's device.  Using his coils, sparkgap, etc, I can only charge the big caps to about 300V.  BUT, that drops to ZERO immediately when I place a load on it.

Have you had success placing a load on your output cap using your method?

Thanks.

.

Alright fat bird!

the mess wire around the the copper core to the ground.  You will get alot of spark.  I got alot stronger spark, several time or more from original neon transformer.  The area around the L1 to ground is matter.

Looking this my attachment file... :),and comments please!

Welcome x_name

So the bottom diagram is how don has it setup on the board and the top diagram is how you are running it / building it?

Have you powered up yet.

Peter

Hi X,
 Welcome to OUR forum,  you asked so I looked at your schematic, if you are going to build the top schematic I think you are going to have problems with the bridge set up you put in.  The problem is the center tap connection on the transformer, if you look at it you will see you have a diode shorting out one half of the transformer every other half cycle.  If you remove the center tap connection then it will work.

Room

Quote from: x_name41 on 2010.05.26, 19:16:49
Looking this my attachment file... :),and comments please!

x_name41,
I'm looking at a printout of your circuits.
For the middle diagram, if you draw 8 microfarad capacitors in parallel, combined, meaning 2 microfarads at 8 kilovolts, this is untrue.  They would equal 8 microfarads at 2 kilovolts only.  Capacitors add capacitance in parallel and divide in series.  For 8 kilovolts, you need c1, c2, c3, c4 to be a string of 4 each, for 8 microfarads at 8 kilovolts.

http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~vawter/PhysicsNet/Topics/Capacitors/ParSeriesCap.html

http://www.coilgun.info/theorycapacitors/capacitors2.htm

--Lee

I think what he is saying is that we are not really sure if Don used 2uF @ 8Kv or 8uF @ 2kv caps, we do know that they were in parallel.

Hello everyone. Thanks for the advice given, recommendations and guidelines and above all wanted to point out as my vision on how the schematic would seem, according to Don Smith photos provided. :)

(I use google translator) :)

I not have this circuit because 4 large capacitors missing!

One of the movie by Don with the L1, 10 turns, and L2 30 turns.  It is very capable for suit case, because it need not to be tuned.  I try it all.  I tried it with NST 3 KV, 45kHz.  NST 4 KV, 40kHz. NST 8 KV, 31 kHz.  With 10 turns on L1, it is short circuit, unless you connect it with a diode.  I try 10 turns with diodes, L1 on a 5 inch PVC L2, about 2000 turns, and home made capacitors (with 1 in thickness foam plates and aluminum foil) parallel with L2.  Power came out on L2 is about the same for air core.  I wonder that if it needs a iron core like toroidal core.
One of Don's project on a wheel cart, you see a large toroidal core with 3 coils on it.  I think the third coil standing alone for charging the battery.  The design is the same with a diode add in L1. Well, if you have a toroidal core and a NST, then try it out with 10 turn on L1, and 30 turns on L2.  You may need a second diode in L2.

@tranbinhtran

Few of us more or less replicated his tunable coil system - but NONE of us had a power supply required.

Proper power supply is the KEY component here. One should have center tapped NST - so earth ground could be connected. Unfortunately, the ones Don Smith had used was Bertonee (appearently these nsts had center tap) .. wich is no more... and noone else to my knowledge is manifacturing center tapped nst.. only 60hz old style ones...

So, noone really replicated his work...  including me. I have 60khz 7kv 10ma HV PSU but real spark discharge only happened @ some 4khz instead of 60khz...

Don emphasized in his lecture - one must connect earth ground to PSU or there will be no amps.... these are his words.

So. Thats my personal take on situation.

Minde

Guys

take a look at this and see if this is a successful replication.  I think it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiJzphSKtMA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YNGrhwf9Yk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ela0XmK4YKg&feature=related

Hey guys, how come you are so quiet.  I did replicate this and it works.  It burns my 40w light bulb in series with a spark gap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiJzphSKtMA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YNGrhwf9Yk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ela0XmK4YKg&feature=related

Pay attention to the way he set up those 5 capacitors at L1.  2 in series and in series with other 3 in parrallel.

I replicated this, and it worked very well.  Each of the capacitor is 0.066 Mf, and there is 5 of them.  Don't use the small engine spark plug or car spark plug.  Use the bigger rods for spark contact.  I use two 3/8" bolts
and nuts drill thru a PVC pipe for spark contact.  The spark gap is on the positive side.
My NST is: 100w, 8000v, 31 khz.  Yes, you can use a regular cheap light dimmer.  I used it because I can't find a NST dimmer in where I live.

Quote from: tranbinhtran on 2010.10.10, 09:43:57
Hey guys, how come you are so quiet.  I did replicate this and it works.  It burns my 40w light bulb in series with a spark gap.


I replicated this, and it worked very well.

Hi tranbinhtran,

Could you explain what you mean by "works"? Is there something unusual going on there? Where are your power measurements?

.99

I think what he's saying is he has energy transfer from primary to secondary, which is a lot more than some of us managed because we couldn't get the primary driven properly without the correct center tapped NST.

Certainly from looking at those videos, you should now be in a position to try the dual secondary coil config and try to work out if it's possible to verify the Don effect.

It works like the way in the video.  Remember Don said when it is resonance, it becomes supper conductor.  You see a spark bulb in video, that is spark jump from the two poles inside the bulb.  Power won't go Thru the bulb's hair alot.  I have a hard time to manage the output electricity.  I try to charge a HV capacitor thru a spark gap, but it won't charge alot.  I guess I have to charge it thru diodes like DON.  i HAVE A hard time to buy diodes in this country.  I have to use micro wave oven diodes, 12 of them in 3 stage, 4 in parallel.  They get very hot when I turn dimmer to higher, and I burn a few diodes already.  Power in and out, I don't have equipments to do that, and I leave that to you.
By the way, you may not need the center tap NST.  I don't.  Even if you don't have ground connection it still works.  Ground is just improving power in and out.  Study the video closely, there is no ground.  The higher capacitors at L1 and further gap for spark are the higher resonance and power output, but it is longer time for spark.

Diagram with no ground, and ground

tran
Someone posted a link some time back where someone was building HV diodes out of stringed 1n4007 diodes and getting very good results

50kv @ 30A  ;D

Ah found it
http://wiki.4hv.org/index.php/High_voltage_diode_-_50_kV,_30_A_peak

Would you tell us detail spec information.
(1) Like how many turns L1, L2 coil
(2) length of the wires.
(3) cap values and how many ....
Lastly Does it work as Don said in the video ?
Can you make it forever working setup like never discharge battery powered device.
Thank you.

Light dimmer: 1000w.  2 bucks (dollar)

Neon sign transformer:  input 220 vac, 50-60 Hz.  Output 8000 vac, 10 mA, 31 kHz. 5bucks.

L2=464.72cm (These are calculation from D2), D2=9.25cm (3" PVC), N2=16 turns
=> L1=1/4 L2=116.2cm, D1=6.75cm (2" PVC), N1=5.48 turns

Depend on how big wire diameter.  Dia. of pipe plus dia. of wire.

L1 cap.
Qty. 5 (all the same), value: 0.066 MD, 1600 vdc

I would say the reason those caps set up that way, because positive go to negative.  The 3 parallel caps absorb return better.  You can feel faster sparks for setup this way.

L2 caps.
Qty. 3 (all the same), value: 0.022 MD, 1600 vdc

If you use double coil on L2, then I recommend you will have caps for additional coil for better resonance.  You should use ac caps for this L2 coils.

Does it work as Don said in the video ?
I would say it is agreeable, and decision is all yours.

Can you make it forever working setup like never discharge battery powered device?
Possible and Frankly, I only have the system working up to here, which is power output from L2.  Due to the lack of HV diodes and equipments I can not go on, but I see a very good helping info from Peterae.  However, I hope to see more results from all up here, because I see some of you have very excellence equipments and setups, which are voltmeter, frequency meter, oscilloscope, hv diodes, caps, etc.  Make me drooling.  My measure equip, voltmeter with limit option from china costs about 2 usd.

Spark gap, I would say you adjust your gap farther until you get resonance.  I say it is about 2-3 mm or more.  Use larger spark contact to ease power transfer.

For further info, go to http://free-energy-info.co.uk/
chapter 3.

Thanks tranbinhtran.

Your contribution is appreciated also.

Have you looked at Tariel Kapanadze's devices? If not, I would like to hear your thoughts on it. It appears to have a lot of similarities to the Don Smith device.

.99

Thank you very much  tranbinhtran. I am very appreciate your kind cooperation.

I have  hope to make the system.
I read the Chapter3. Motionless Pulse systems. But I could not quiet understand the critical key point of system.
Also I read the Air Core Induction Coil Builders Guide by Donald Smith. But I could not understand the relationship of the capacitor value and coil length
and the coil turn numbers and .... I did not familiar with electrical field. Actually I don't know about that.
But I have a strong passion to build the system.
Would you explain easy to understand how to build the system like step by step by normal people.
Also do you mind upload detail photos of your system to help my project.
Welcome to anybody help me to build the system.
Thank you.

Your replications are my appreciation.

Kapanadze's device, It's not worth replicate that.

Advantage..

5 kw and above
Tesla design, but the opposite way.

Disadvantage..

2 separate ground 10 meter apart, Complicate design, COP replication is negative, using high power input. patent design is different from replications.  Check out this site http://jnaudin.free.fr/

  I replicate myself, with a NST about 2 months ago, and it gives zero result.  What's a waste of resource.  If you use 1000W or more input microwave transformer, and it give out 97% or 101% output, then it does not worth trying for.

Compare to Don projects, it is solid state, high Cop, cheap and easy to find accessories, low input, high power output, less wire turns.  If you sit down and figure out the advantage and disadvantage from the book, then you see it clearer.

  Althought, I find that he give you extra info, and it is more like to confuse you.  For instance, high frequency NST, have you ever heard frequency in DC? Neg. and pos. and voltage only.  Once DC power go to DC caps it show flat in the oscilloscope.  So you may set up your diodes in anyway in L2 and get the most VDC out of it ( rectifier, one side...).  By the way, I bet if you use square wave inverter, and it is still work.  You may not worry about your NST Hz, but the high voltage.  Nothing is off the self, but different design.  You can verify that.

  Don's NST is center tap, which is double coil output to L2.  He uses both diodes at two positive NST output.  His NST negative center tap goes to ground and go back up at neg. caps side at L2.  Even if he not ground then the neg. is comes from his NST center tap side to the L2 caps.  What I show you in diagram is single coil output to L2 with NST without center tap.  If you hook like Don, with a regular NST, then the neg. have no where to go, and it jams.  Draw the center tap NST and see for yourself.

Thank you for the detail information.
I need more information for my project.

(1) How to determine the capacitor values of the L1 coil and L2 coil  ?
(2) What is value of the diodes of your set-up ?
(3) What is the Resistance values of the coil L-1, L-2 ?
(4) How you going to use of the Out put power system for practical use (Does it have enough Current (AMPS) ?)
(5) If possible, How to make the set-up(Circuit ?), I mean how to down-grade the voltage and up-grade amps ?
(6) By the some Don's information materials, the system need to use proper resister for practical output power.
     But I don't understand this point.
(7) I don't understand your last extra information. 

Sorry for the stupid questions. Because I don't know detail about the electronics field. 
But as I mention earlier, I have very strong passion to built this system. Please help me.
Recently I ordered NST, and I looking for L2 coil.
Thank you very much.

Anybody have the copy of "1996 TESLA MAGAZINE" mentioned by Don Smith at the 1996 Tesla Symposium ?

Quote from: tranbinhtran on 2010.10.22, 13:40:11
Diagram with no ground, and ground

Hi, I'm new here and I noticed your Don Smith based diagrams.
I think the spark-gap is connected wrong in this circuit. Why I think this, is because this circuit is not free running. Free running circuit is spark-gap connected in parallel over the capacitor to ground with L1 coil parallel too. You need a capacitor(s) in series between the parallel capacitor and L1 coil too. This LC system then self-resonates on natural frequency in the MHz range when micro-henries and nano-farad components are used.
Capacitor is charged by the (low)current (high)voltage pulses from the neon transformer (Don Smith NST). When spark-gap fires the LC gets (high)current impulses from the capacitor through the L1 coil (ala Tesla). Also the current through the spark-gap in parallel is much lower then the one connected in series. The high voltage lines from the neon are 180 degrees out of phase, so when you rectify them (positive) you get DC charge pulses to the capacitor. This charges your capacitor with the neon transformer frequency (time). Spark-gap regulates (breakdown voltage and holding current) the impulses into the LC circuit (this is not the resonance frequency). The LC is resonating on its own frequency (sparkgap is kicking the LC).
The L2 (receiver)coil is adjusted on the (L1C) primary (transmitter) resonance frequency. From here (L2a/L2b) you get high voltage and current.

Let me know what you think...

Regards,
cognito

Quote from: cognito on 2010.10.31, 15:35:33
Hi, I'm new here and I noticed your Don Smith based diagrams.
I think the spark-gap is connected wrong in this circuit. Why I think this, is because this circuit is not free running. Free running circuit is spark-gap connected in parallel over the capacitor to ground with L1 coil parallel too. You need a capacitor(s) in series between the parallel capacitor and L1 coil too. This LC system then self-resonates on natural frequency in the MHz range when micro-henries and nano-farad components are used.
Capacitor is charged by the (low)current (high)voltage pulses from the neon transformer (Don Smith NST). When spark-gap fires the LC gets (high)current impulses from the capacitor through the L1 coil (ala Tesla). Also the current through the spark-gap in parallel is much lower then the one connected in series. The high voltage lines from the neon are 180 degrees out of phase, so when you rectify them (positive) you get DC charge pulses to the capacitor. This charges your capacitor with the neon transformer frequency (time). Spark-gap regulates (breakdown voltage and holding current) the impulses into the LC circuit (this is not the resonance frequency). The LC is resonating on its own frequency (sparkgap is kicking the LC).
The L2 (receiver)coil is adjusted on the (L1C) primary (transmitter) resonance frequency. From here (L2a/L2b) you get high voltage and current.

Let me know what you think...

Regards,
cognito

You are probably right, but please draw schematic as my head burned trying to imagine possible combinations ;-)
That one video show one maybe : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFNmFN7WnAc#

 ;D I can't wait to see your schematic !!!! IMHO It is HUGE step forward ! It works Mopozco video proved, the only problem is spark gap and  gas discharge tube would be better but it's hard to get in my country.

Good find forest

Here's Don's Desktop rep by the same guy

Hang on a minute that don smith L1L2 is not even connected in that last video, still the circuit is interesting

Peterae

I don't know why he force water spark gap. he has his previous SSG probably  OU device just eliminate bulbs and add secondary to the coil.

I'm waiting for cognito schematic  ::) maybe it will look like Mopozco device. Just disconnecting dipole from power source and let it freely oscillate is the key! and if you do it at right moment (at the peak of the oscillation 1/4 wavelength then almost all energy is correctly converted inside LC compared to boring looses by EM radiation and heat and light when not made right. That's why Kapanadze spark is silent! It is so simple and so hard to get in circuit.

Tesla:
"This [Fig. 32] is another improvement in that particular device, which was the weakness of the invention and which I tried to eliminate.  This device incorporated many spark gaps in series.  It had a peculiar feature; namely, through the great number of gaps, I was able, as I have pointed out in my writings, to produce oscillations without even a spark being visible between the knobs.  This device is now known in the art as the "quenched spark gap." Professor Wein has formulated a beautiful theory about it, which I understand has netted him the Nobel prize.  Wein's theories are admirable.  The only trouble is that he has overlooked one very important fact.  It is this: If the apparatus is properly designed and operated, there is no use for the quenched gap, for the oscillations are continuous anyway.  The radio men who came after me had the problem before them of making a bell sound, and they immersed it in mercury.  Now, you know mercury is heavy.  When they struck their bell, the mercury did not permit it to vibrate long because it took away all the energy.  I put my bell in a vacuum and make it vibrate for hours.  I have designed circuits in connection with an enterprise in 1898 for transmission of energy which, once started, would vibrate three years, and even after that the oscillations could still be detected.  Professor Wein's theory is very beautiful, but it really has no practical meaning.  It will become useless as soon as the inefficient apparatus of the day, with antennae that radiate energy rapidly, [are] replaced by a scientifically designed oscillator which does not give out energy except when it gets up to a tremendous electromagnetic momentum."

Quote from: forest on 2010.11.06, 08:36:26
;D I can't wait to see your schematic !!!! IMHO It is HUGE step forward ! It works Mopozco video proved, the only problem is spark gap and  gas discharge tube would be better but it's hard to get in my country.

Ok, here it is.
NOTE: This is only a computer simulation circuit!
Here is the code that you input in the simulator on this link:
http://www.falstad.com/circuit/

$ 1 5.0E-6 7.308818067910767 48 5.0 43
w 544 272 640 272 0
l 768 272 768 528 0 1.14E-5 3.2500705693862706
w 640 528 736 528 0
187 480 272 480 528 0 1000.0 1.0E9 2500.0 0.1
r 544 272 544 384 0 1.0E-4
c 544 384 544 528 0 1.0E-9 1867.681379238469
w 640 272 736 272 0
v 368 528 368 416 0 1 15000.0 3200.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
r 368 272 480 272 0 300000.0
d 368 416 368 272 1 0.805904783
v 256 528 256 416 0 1 15000.0 3200.0 0.0 3.141592653589793 0.5
d 256 416 256 272 1 0.805904783
r 368 224 480 224 0 300000.0
w 480 224 480 272 0
w 368 224 256 224 0
w 256 224 256 272 0
w 256 528 368 528 0
w 480 272 544 272 0
w 480 528 368 528 0
c 640 528 544 528 0 1.0E-9 1981.7700368371175
w 736 272 768 272 0
w 736 528 768 528 0
w 480 528 544 528 0
o 1 64 1 35 1280.0 9.765625E-5 0 -1
o 7 64 0 33 2560.0 0.0125 1 -1
o 10 64 0 33 2560.0 0.0125 1 -1
o 1 64 0 33 320.0 6.4 2 -1

Regards,
cognito

This can be useful to design the L2 receiver coil.
http://amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_radio#Construction_and_operation
Regards,
cognito

I was looking to buy the following book....

http://www.tfcbooks.com/mall/more/371tcbg.htm (http://www.tfcbooks.com/mall/more/371tcbg.htm)

And I thought the following might be of interest to some:

"For those not well acquainted with Tesla coil design and operation, Hull begins by pointing out that, fundamentally, grounding the base end of a vertical coil forces a node at that end, and the coil resonates at its natural 1/4-wavelength frequency. A "good" ground connection is a must. If, however, the coil is ungrounded, and typically placed in an elevated, horizontal position, the coil then self-resonates at its natural 1/2-wavelength frequency with a node forced at the center. "

Take care,
Duane

Thanks deggers. ;)

This may be applicable to the Kapanadze devices as well.

.99

Hello!
I see a "Donald L. Smith 1996 Tesla Symposium Part 8" in you tube, and want to know if anybody know what book he show at 3:00 minute of this video.
Thanks!

I am unable to watch that right now, i did buy one of the books Don mentioned somewhere Tables and Formula, not sure if it's the one you refer to

you can get a scan of Chapter 1 which Don referred to here
www.overunityresearch.com/Ref/Chapter1HandbookTablesFormulas.zip

hi Peterae!
Thanks for your replay!
I have this book (Handbook of Electronics Tables and Formulas) But ((unfortunately) the page than you can see at Part 8 is not present in this book.

I think this is a final lecture for Don Smith Device.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMKlmnsmMgk&feature=colike