I'd like to have a place to discuss the Rigol DS1054 scope and its cousins since a few of us have them or other Rigol scopes. So here we go. Questions, answers, features, measurements, help... and BUGS.
First thing.... I really like the scope and use it many hours each day but I just discovered something while testing a portion of the "nanosecond pulser" circuit.
I'm getting a reproducible bug that's pretty darn severe.
The scope freezes up, becomes totally non-responsive (but still displays live waveform) when the Horizontal Zoom mode is engaged, and a Persistence Time other than "min" is selected.
Cycling power restores functionality --- usually.
I discovered this on Firmware 04.02 and now have upgraded to Firmware 04.03 and it still does the same thing. One channel active, showing a waveform, select the Horiz. zoom mode by pressing the Horizontal Scale knob, select the Display menu and then any Persistence Time other than Min ... and scope freezes.
If I select a persistence time _before_ selecting the Horiz. zoom mode... the scope freezes, and since I have "Last" set as power-on option, the scope comes up frozen after restarting !! So I have to do the "press repeatedly the 5th left menu button during startup" to get the scope back to responding again (reset to defaults, chinese language).
I don't think other settings matter, I've tried it in Normal and Average acquisition modes, with various timebase and V/div settings, etc. It seems to be some interaction between persistence time selection and the horizontal zoom feature.
Slider, does yours do this too? Don't worry, you can get it back even if it comes up frozen on startup, by repeatedly pressing the 5th dark grey button on the left side while the scope is starting up. It will come up in factory defaults, with chinese language, but you can change back to English right there.
can I reach out for a Tech [Rigol] to join this discussion ?
Quote from: Chet K on 2015.06.03, 13:38:08
can I reach out for a Tech [Rigol] to join this discussion ?
Certainly, please do. I've reported it on EEVBlog forum here:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054z-freeze-up-bug/
As you can see in that thread, at least one other person has confirmed it. I've been testing to find the exact conditions and it doesn't seem to happen if the horizontal timebase is set to slow values (like slower than 200 microseconds per division.) But it happens quite reliably when the timebase is at 10 microseconds/div or faster.
Here's my video showing the bug:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7gziboPoHI
Another video of the problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSTYrMzNzZw
The people on the EEVBlog forum are not having much luck reproducing this bug, except for one person so far.
But now that I've discovered that it mostly happens when the Memory Depth is set to Auto, and I can avoid it by using full memory depth, it's not so bad, I can deal with it by simply not using Auto depth when I need persistence and zooming at the same time.
Still, it would be nice to track down the reason for this and to find out if it affects other scopes, if it's a production run problem, corrupted software, or just what.
So far I've heard from around 7 or 8 people who can reproduce the bug, and about the same number who can't seem to do it. Oh well.... hopefully Rigol is watching somewhere. They really need to do something about this problem, even if it only affects a certain percentage of the units rather than all of them. I still kind of think that the ones who "can't" do it aren't trying hard enough or something. Because I can't really think of a reason why only _some_ scopes would have a problem like this. But at least I know that it isn't just me, so I won't be sending mine back (unless RIgol does a recall or something like that).
Meanwhile, it's still a great scope. You sure can get a lot of information on that little screen!
I would expect them to release a Patch. Or simply include it in the next firmware release.
A 4 letter word should be heard in the Rigol office when they become aware of it.
As mentioned on your second vid, mine has the bug. It's completely stock, no changes and if the way you showed in that video is followed exactly, the screen freezes.
Indeed, it does it on Auto, but doesn't at other depths. If that range is needed then at least we now have your videos to clearly remember what to do before measuring.
Feeling better all the time about the purchase of my new Siglent scope (http://siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=26&T=2&tid=1). Everything seems to work as specified.
Yes, the Siglent looks nice. It looks like it has fully functional remote control software too. The Rigol remote software "UltraScope" basically sux.
Getting EasyScopeX working is a bit of pain because you have to jump through some hoops to get the National Instruments VISA drivers loaded. But once that is done, taking screen shots without using a USB stick is really nice. It does do remote control and data capture too. But all of this assumes you have a Windows OS. The USBTMC spec is probably supported in Linux, but I haven't poked around enough to learn the details.
It's only two channel and the sampling rate is half of yours. Screen is the same size but the resolution is less.
The good thing is I can take measurements now, something that was extremely difficult to do with my analog scope.
Quote from: Slider2732 on 2015.06.05, 20:01:54
I would expect them to release a Patch. Or simply include it in the next firmware release.
A 4 letter word should be heard in the Rigol office when they become aware of it.
As mentioned on your second vid, mine has the bug. It's completely stock, no changes and if the way you showed in that video is followed exactly, the screen freezes.
Indeed, it does it on Auto, but doesn't at other depths. If that range is needed then at least we now have your videos to clearly remember what to do before measuring.
Heh... wait till you see the next video. The "Bug" has an interesting interaction with another "bug". This second bug is this: The scope is supposed to remember its last setup (when this is set in Utility>System>Power Set = Last) when it is shut down. But if you have 4 channels active, and "6M" set in Mem Depth, and you turn the scope off, then back on again... the Mem Depth sets itself to "Auto". It doesn't seem to do this if only one channel is active and Mem Depth is 24M--- in that case it boots up with the same setting like it should. Not so with 4 channels active.
So, let's say you are buzzing along with 4 channels going, you have some persistence set, and you think you are safe because you have 6M set in Mem Depth. You enter the Horizontal Zoom mode and all is peachy, it all works fine. Then you shut down to go to lunch or something, and when you come back you turn the scope back on. Clickety clack, flashy lites all normal ... but Bam! The scope boots up and is already FROZEN!! And there is now nothing you can do about it but use the "5th Left Menu Button" reset back to factory defaults..... losing your entire setup if you haven't got it saved.
It does this because with 4 channels active, the scope doesn't remember you had Mem Depth set to 6M points, and automagically resets Mem Depth to Auto.... so now all the conditions for the FreezeBug are in place and the scope boots up frozen. But it shows a live waveform... you just can't do anything about it.
Imagine how you'd feel at that point, if you didn't understand how to use the "5th Left Menu Button" reset, since it's not officially documented. You'd think you had a totally bricked scope. This "feature" elevates the severity and importance of the Freeze Bug. I've sent a note to Rigol Tech Support and I'm raising hell about it on the EEVblog forum, as more and more users report being able to reproduce the bug.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bTWmY37qMs
How do you like them apples? It's possible to shut the scope down while running normally, and have it _start up_ completely frozen ! By setting a perfectly reasonable combination of settings !
Insert huge facepalm image here!
I haven't yet heard if others can reproduce this full setup but I imagine that anyone who has "the bug" in the first place can wind up doing this one too.
My lord that thing is slow to boot and load setup files. :o
Clickety clack ;D
That is indeed exactly the sound of the scope at boot up O0
Just a wondering, are such relays good for a million clickety clacks and likely to last for a decade of daily use ?
It seems somewhat intensive while using various features.
Otherwise, i'm delighted with it, being unlikely to use 4 channels often. But bugs are bugs and this sort of thing is free R+D to the manufacturer.
2 bugs.
A double facepalm
Just in the last few hours, somebody has been trolling my videos and leaving anonymous cowardly thumbs-downs on them. The Rigol bug videos and demonstrations had no thumbs-downs last night, and by this morning, the latest demonstration of the bug, which I uploaded less than 24 hours ago and have only linked on the EEVblog forum, has been hit with _5_ thumbs down votes. My PLL demo video has gotten _11_ such votes, again many of them since yesterday. Never do these negative voters have the courage to leave a comment stating what they find so objectionable about my demonstrations.
I find this hilarious. I have my own personal trolls, who actually _subscribe_ to my channel so that they can be informed whenever I upload a video, so that they can leave their cowardly chicken-droppings on them. How incredibly impotent they are! And how afraid and inarticulate. Instead of offering constructive criticism in comments, which I welcome, they can only deface.
This last set is rather telling, though. Less than 24 hours up, only linked from one forum, a clear demonstration of a fatal flaw in the "world's best selling oscilloscope"... and 5 thumbs downs.
Here's the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3qLx1PYXyw
Bring it on, cowardly trolls!
Hmm
Still going full tilt here ...finally got back home [almost two weeks] I will MAKE the time to Call Rigol today.
Chet K
OK
called and Emailed Our friend Jason C at Rigol [has helped us before]
waiting to hear back.
Chet K
@TK,
Perhaps the thumbs down are meant for Rigol and not against you?
Smudge
here is a quick response from Jason C
Quote
There is a known issue with activating the Sweep Delay function. We are working on it at this time.
Have you been able to reset the scope?
What is the serial number and firmware revision?
J
end quote
I sent him the info on Marks STOCK unaltered scope.
will be forwarding Tinsels Vids Now.
More Later
Chet K
MORE from Jason
Hi Chet,
Here is the alternate factory reset instructions. They should be able to get you up-and-running again.
http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-02f4/1/-/-/-/-/file.pdf
...............................
Quote from: Smudge on 2015.06.09, 15:32:55
@TK,
Perhaps the thumbs down are meant for Rigol and not against you?
Smudge
Perhaps, but that doesn't account for the systematic TDs appearing suddenly on _all_ my recent videos, some having nothing to do with Rigol at all, and even on the Rigol demos where I am demonstrating useful features of the scope with no reference to bugs at all.
I have a few dedicated trolls. I even know who some of them are, but since I don't know the YT accounts they use to leave the TDs I can't block them from my channel.
Quote from: Chet K on 2015.06.09, 15:35:32
here is a quick response from Jason C
Quote
There is a known issue with activating the Sweep Delay function. We are working on it at this time.
Have you been able to reset the scope?
What is the serial number and firmware revision?
J
end quote
I sent him the info on Marks STOCK unaltered scope.
will be forwarding Tinsels Vids Now.
More Later
Chet K
MORE from Jason
Hi Chet,
Here is the alternate factory reset instructions. They should be able to get you up-and-running again.
http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-02f4/1/-/-/-/-/file.pdf
...............................
I sent a notice to Rigol Tech Support several days ago with links to the first group of videos. And included in those videos is the demonstration of the "alternate factory reset" method. I did get a response from Jason.
Here's what I sent to Rigol Tech Support on Saturday morning:
QuoteAre you aware of this problem? It seems to affect about half of the DS1054Z scopes that have tested for it (over 25 as I write this, with at least 13 affected). The problem occurs in scopes running firmware versions 04.03, as well as those using 04.02.
The scope "locks up" and does not respond to any user input (buttons, knobs, SCPI commands over LAN) and requires a power-cycle reboot. To reproduce the condition reliably, start with CH1 probe connected to Calibrator for a signal (although any signal or even no signal will also work). Set Horizontal timebase to 1 us/div or faster. Set Memory Depth to AUTO. Set Display Persistence Time to 100 ms, or any value other than "min". Enter Horizontal Zoom (Delayed) mode by pressing the Horizontal Scale knob or by using the menu item button. Scope locks up at this point. Or do the steps in different sequence, like have Mem Depth set at some value other than Auto, enter Horizontal Zoom then select "Auto" Mem Depth... scope locks up. The scope continues to show a live waveform but is completely unresponsive to any knobs or button presses. In this state, it also does not recognize attempts to connect over the LAN using Telnet. If the LAN connection is already established before the scope freezes, it stops responding to SCPI commands (connection is dropped).
The only way to restore function is to power-cycle the scope. Sometimes even power-cycling results in continued lockup and then the scope needs to be reset using the "5th Left Menu Button" reset technique which results in the scope coming up in Chinese (but operational.)
Please check the EEVBlog thread here:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054z-freeze-up-bug/
And my videos demonstrating the bug:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7gziboPoHI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSTYrMzNzZw
Thank you for your attention to this matter. A perfectly legitimate combination of user settings should never cause an instrument to lock up completely requiring a hard reboot, and the fact that the "bug" appears in approximately half the units tested, using 04.02 and 04.03 firmwares equally, is very strange.
And here's the response I got:
QuoteHello (TK)
My name is Jason Chonko and I am an Applications Engineer at Rigol Technologies USA. Thank you for writing in.
We are aware of the problems with the MSO and are investigating the issue further.
Can I get the following information from your instrument?
- Serial number?
- Purchase date and vendor?
- Shipping address and phone number?
I am going to write up a bug for your account. When it is fixed, you will be emailed the solution.
Sincerely,
Jason
And then I sent the following:
QuoteHello Jason, thanks for your email.
The problem is happening on DS1054Z scopes. I haven't heard any reports of the full problem happening on MSO models.
By now, as you can see on the EEVblog forum, we have identified at least 17 units, out of 35 tested, that show the bug.
(There is a "poll" at the top of the EEVBlog thread that is keeping track of the reports. I have also had comments from several
others, not EEVblog members, who have the bug, so really it affects more than half the units tested.)
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054z-freeze-up-bug/msg689219/#new
Since my original report I have found that it is possible to have the scope start up _already frozen_ after being shut
down in fully functional state, due to a second bug: the scope does not remember the Mem Depth setting and starts up
with Mem Depth set to AUTO, no matter how it was set when shut down. So one of the four conditions for freeze-up is set
for you automatically. This has also been confirmed in other people's scopes. Also, when loading a Setup file, the scope
usually resets Mem Depth to Auto, no matter what setting it had when the file was saved.
This second bug (start up with Mem Depth AUTO) _does_ occur with at least one MSO model that
has been tested, although that particular scope did not freeze up when the owner tested for it.
Here is a video demonstration of the "Start-up in Locked State" :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bTWmY37qMs
As to purchase date... you may recall that my first scope had a bad glitch on CH4 and so it was returned to TEquipment for
replacement. That scope was originally ordered on February 9, 2015, IIRC, and was finally delivered to me on April 9. It was returned
to TEquipment and they sent me a replacement which arrived here on April 19. Oddly, the "new" scope had a much earlier
serial number than the first one.
The serial number of the scope I have now is
DS1ZA170300673
It was purchased from TEquipment.net
The shipping address is
(my name and address here)
I can't be contacted here by phone, please use email.
Thanks for your attention to this matter. There must be many many units out there that have this bug, as the sample
of 35 units tested shows 17 of them (at least) that have it. It might be nice if someone from Rigol actually posted something
on the EEVBlog forum thread to notify the affected owners that the problem is being investigated.
Sincerely--
(TK)
So maybe Jason hasn't watched the videos, or perhaps he's not connecting Chet's message with mine. Since it is pretty clear that we know all about the "alternate factory reset" procedure already.
There are now 37 reports of testing on the EEVblog forum, with 18 owners reporting that they CAN reproduce the freezing and 19 saying that they CAN'T. This count does not include several "CANs" that I know about from non-EEV forum members, and has at least one "CAN'T" from someone with a MSO1074Z-S scope... a different model than is actually being discussed. So really, more than half the scopes tested DO suffer from the bug.
And there still hasn't been any posting from a Rigol representative on the EEVblog forum thread talking about this widespread issue.
AND.... the issue has more to do with the Persistence setting, I think, than the Horizontal Delayed timebase setting as such. For example setting any Persistence time other than "min" also brings the Math FFT display to a dead halt. And the second "bug" where the Mem Depth resets to "Auto" when power cycling or loading a stored setup, is also a big factor in allowing the scope to start up already frozen.
Also, there are other problems. For example the FFT has errors that seem to depend on the Acquisition Mode and the Memory Depth, with only the "High Precision" and "120K" settings seeming to return an accurate result. Other settings result in aliasing, and the "anti-aliasing" function has no effect on this particular type of aliasing. So far, everyone who has tested their scopes for this flaw has been able to reproduce it.
It's also interesting to note that the "Alternate Reset" instructions in the link are for the DS2000 and higher models. They have seven dark grey buttons, rather than six like the DS1054Z. So if you are counting from the top, you'll be using the wrong button if you follow those instructions. Regardless, it's the second dark grey button from the _bottom_ that does the trick for all the scopes.
Tinsel
I have been asked a question by Jason C
"is the problem interfering with your research at this time ?"
or once you reset it can you go about your business ...
I am certain this will be remedied ,I don't really think they are sure about how prevalent this problem is
Nor its extent.
Hmm... I wonder why he didn't ask me, directly. It sounds like Rigol are getting a little snippy there.
The answer is No, not exactly, since I've discovered the conditions for the main freeze-up problem and the way to get around it, _all on my own_. (See, I can be snippy too.)
But the more I use the scope the more bugs I find and document. If their answer to the problem is "Well, just don't use those settings then..." that's a problem in itself. And the clear fact that it occurs on a bit more than half the scopes tested would appear to indicate some systemic problem at Rigol itself that needs to be fixed.
Some people apparently have DS1054Z scopes that do not lock up, so their owners don't have to be extra careful not to create the conditions for lockup. Other owners, like me, have to put up with slowdowns and lockups if we inadvertently try to use the perfectly ordinary and legitimate settings that produce the Bug. So we need to understand it in order to avoid it. The first time my scope locked up on me I was frantic, I thought I had bricked the scope somehow and spent several hours in a panic state, pressing buttons and cycling power until I finally accidentally hit upon the "alternate factory reset" thing myself. The reset procedure isn't even mentioned in the user manual anywhere that I can find!
Overall my experience with this scope has been positive, and I still defend it in forum posts and in my YT video comments. But the facts that we know the problem exists, we know its conditions for happening and we know the ways to avoid it are all due to my work and forum conversations on EEVblog. Maybe the direction of my "research" has shifted somewhat, from looking at the behaviour of circuits on my bench, into looking at and documenting the unfortunate BUGS in this nice scope, in the hope that Rigol will be able to fix their product and their systemic problems, and make it even better -- that is, make it actually work as it was designed and intended to do.
Quote from: Chet K on 2015.06.10, 14:46:30
Tinsel
I have been asked a question by Jason C
"is the problem interfering with your research at this time ?"
or once you reset it can you go about your business ...
I am certain this will be remedied ,I don't really think they are sure about how prevalent this problem is
Nor its extent.
At the top of the thread at EEVBlog there is a "poll" that is keeping track of the reports from people who are testing their scopes to see if they can reproduce the "Bug". Right now, that poll shows that 40 scopes have been tested by EEVblog forum members, with 21 reporting that they CAN reproduce it and 19 reporting that they can't. In addition I have had some other reports from non-members, on my YT videos, from people who have reproduced the freezing, and the "start-up locked" condition as well. So they at Rigol may not be sure how prevalent the problem is, but if a random sample of 40 units has half of them or more, showing the problem, then any statistician or even any reasonable person would say that it is indeed prevalent, and in fact common, among the scopes that are out there "in the wild".
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054z-freeze-up-bug/
So It most definitely continues to be a problem and notwithstanding if there is one problem.. there may be other issues entirely which could effect accuracy of the instrument ? How would we know ?? and Now we have an instrument which we can't trust...
For simplicity can you Post a quick Log of Known issues,[For My call to Jason [and beyond]
thx
Chet
Oh, I don't think I'd go so far as to say that we can't trust it. No more so than any other low-end scope, anyhow.
The issue with the FFT seems to be a matter of settings that are really not very realistic, and as I've been fooling around testing the FFT today, I now think that issue is resolved and that the FFT is producing accurate information when used within its range and limits.
So I think the main issues are not so much with "accuracy" but rather general usability.
The Freeze Bug, especially the Start-up Frozen subspecies, is the major one.
Some others would be:
-- the very slow saving screenshots to USB (the time can vary from just a few seconds to over six minutes!)
-- similarly, it can take several minutes for a setup file to finish loading and allow operation again, although the screen usually seems to indicate proper setup after a few seconds
-- the fact that the Memory Depth resets to Auto under certain conditions when scope is started or when a setup file is loaded
These are my major concerns at the moment. But except for the slow saves and loads, the issues are avoidable by taking some care not to set up the conditions, and checking Mem Depth after startups and setup loads. The slow saves and loads are annoying. Having to wait up to six minutes for a 50kb .png file to be loaded onto a USB stick is just silly. Saving screenshots does go faster if the scope is Stopped; but I haven't figured out how to avoid that long load time when setup files are loaded.
There are some other things that could be changed to make the scope more friendly and usable, most of these are talked about in the thread at EEVBlog forum:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-series-(ds1054z-ds1074z-ds1104z-and-s-models)-bugswish-list/
Well... I've found _yet another_ bug in the Rigol DS1054Z scope. See the screenshot below. The Math trace is displaced or delayed by 1 or 2 divisions to the right, when the scope is set to 500 ns/div and "Average" acquisition mode is used. Change the timebase, or use other Acquire modes, and the Math trace goes back to normal behaviour. Notice the difference in the "delay" error between the left and right sides of the screen.
I don't need to be using all four channels, just the two in the Math equation are enough.
Yup, Rigol should pay you for beta-testing their products
Quote from: verpies on 2015.06.22, 18:45:04
Yup, Rigol should pay you for beta-testing their products
Heh... that would be nice, for sure. But probably they wish I'd just shut up and go away and stop posting about all the bugs in their best-selling product.
Still haven't heard anything more about the Freeze Bug, since I reported it on June 8th and got a reply from Jason that they were "working on it". At EEVblog we have 24 cases of "can reproduce" against 22 cases of "can't reproduce" the Freeze Bug reported, but I think they've lost interest there. The general attitude seems to be "Hey, it's so cheap, so quit complaining, be happy that it even works at all on two channels". I must be the only person owning one who expects it to work on all four channels with all features operational and without freezing up. And with things like Math traces appearing properly...
Here's a test shot using a pulse signal from my FG rather than an actual circuit measurement. Both active channels are connected to the same FG signal output. At 500 ns/div the Math AxB trace is displaced... it looks like the Math trace is set to a different timebase or something, since the displacement varies according to screen position. This displacement also happens with A+B math and other two-trace math at 500 ns/div horizontally, whether in zoom mode or not.
Obviously this makes it hard to have confidence in actual Power measurements. I guess I'll have to write a note on a bit of tape and stick it to the scope, warning not to use 500 ns/div when looking at trace math. Stick it next to the other bits of tape warning about other bugs. Right.
By the way I've upgraded to the latest firmware version 00.04.03.SP1, and this had no effect on either the FreezeBug or this horizontal Math error. Except maybe the scope no longer automatically sets "Auto" memory depth upon rebooting, which was a problem before that led to the FreezeBug.
Still have had no emails from Jason since the 8th of June.
Quote from: TinK
Still have had no emails from Jason since the 8th of June.
That is not uncommon. While debugging and re-coding efforts
are underway things may go quiet temporarily. Solutions will
be found and corrections will be made in order to attain the
best possible performance within the limitations of the
hardware. Their reputation is at stake. Satisfied customers
are always a very high priority.
Well TK,
I finally did it. I managed to lock/brick my Siglent SDS1052DL scope. The good news and something I want to share for anyone else that has a Siglent or rebranding of the Siglent (such as BK). Just hold and cycle at one second intervals the MATH button when powering on. This will clear any inconsistent configuration that was saved when the scope was powered down. An undocumented feature that only the engineers commonly know about, now released to the public.
Cheers!
M@
Wow
same fix for a slow elevator....
what a coincidence.. In NYC when the elevators are running slow ,and your sitting there waiting
[and so is your customer waiting for you upstairs on the 40th floor]
Machine gun pushing of the button always seems to fix it [surely it is broken ..its taking so long ???
I'll never forget when I was a younger man I had an older fellow standing there watching me push the button more than I should
[like a nut] ...his comment was "hey Kid its not hydraulic " the button doesn't run the pump.
:o
as Johnny Carson use to say "I did not know that" C.C
all kidding aside ,I am certain there will be great appreciation for your "fix" !
and probably the Biggest appreciation was from you when it "unBricked".
Hi Guys, I had a big birthday yesterday and I'm looking to get a new scope. Despite the bugs are the 1054z owners happy with the scope?
Quote from: JimBoot on 2015.10.06, 22:39:18
Hi Guys, I had a big birthday yesterday and I'm looking to get a new scope. Despite the bugs are the 1054z owners happy with the scope?
My Siglent is a fair bit lesser of a scope than the Rigol and I'm quite happy with it. I'm sure you will get great use out of a 1054z.
I think sometimes if an experiment needs better test equipment than I can afford, maybe I should take up a new hobby.
And Happy Birthday Jim!
Yes, happy I am with the scope. Its functional features outweigh the bugs, and Rigol are likely to be fixing bugs in firmware updates as time goes by.
The full set of triggers, and the 100 MHz bandwidth, which come with the "unlocking" really add to the bargain as well.
The probes that come with it are a little flaky sometimes but for my purposes they are adequate, once the "gotchas" are understood and taken care of.
If you decide to get the scope and have any questions about its operation or features just let me know, I think I've got mine pretty well figured out and I'm glad to help.
Some people have complained about the fan "noise" but actually, I can't even hear mine over the noise from the other fans in the room, like my computer (which has 4 fans) or the air conditioner. My bench power supply is a lot noisier.
The scope has only 1 megohm impedance inputs, so if you plan to use it with, say, FG with 50 ohm outputs or other 50 ohm equipment, you might consider adding a Rigol 50-ohm thru terminator (adapter) to your order. It costs 18 dollars US.
I'll always be grateful to Chet and the other kind folks who pitched in to buy this scope for me. I would never have been able to afford it on my own and it has modernized my laboratory greatly. Thanks again !!
Thanks guys. I think I'll proceed with the purchase. I'll be rewatching a lot of your vids TK. O0
Quote from: JimBoot on 2015.10.07, 12:26:31
Thanks guys. I think I'll proceed with the purchase. I'll be rewatching a lot of your vids TK. O0
You will not be sorry. Especially once you "upgrade" it to the 100MHz and they correct these bugs in firmware.
Here's the riglol keygen zipfile, "for reference only" ;)
It contains 4 versions: Windows executable, OSX executable, generic HTML that will open in your default browser, and Linux sourcecode. (The versions are in the "bin" directory in the zipfile, the Linux source is in the "src" directory.)
The Windows exe version and the HTML version, and probably the OSX version, work as supplied. The Linux version needs to be compiled for your own flavor of Linux, but do it in a separate directory so that the compile doesn't affect the other three versions (just copy-paste the whole "src" folder to a new separate folder before compiling.)
The "DSER" option code isn't listed in the keygen instructions but will work anyhow. You don't need a "private key" just the SN of the scope and the "DSER" option. DSER gives all the trigger and decode options plus the 100MHz bandwidth. Don't even try the high-sensitivity vertical option, it doesn't work with the 1054z.
If you screw up the data entry to the scope three times, you'll get "locked out" for 12 hours of runtime before you can try again. Once the scope is upgraded it will report itself as a DS1104z in the system info screens. The latest firmware _does_ still allow the upgrading, as of now; we are expecting a new firmware later in October but it probably will still allow upgrading too, I hope.
The easiest way to enter and remove the upgrade is to use Telnet over the LAN connection, using the commands below (without quotes, and with caps and lowercase exactly as written):
Use ":SYSTem:OPTion:UNINSTall" to go back to DS1054Z
Use ":SYSTem:OPTion:INSTall XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX" to enter a key, where XXX is your key (without hyphens or quotes...)
Or you can enter the key in the Utility menu using the knob-button-virtual keyboard thing, but be careful to get all the characters right. It's easy to mix up the "S" and the "5" in the tiny font they use.
I'm not responsible for this, I'm just the messenger... My advice is to _not do it_ until your scope is burned in enough so you know you aren't going to have to return it under the vendor's warranty, but it is easy enough to remove it and restore the scope to original using the "UNINSTall" command above, as long as the scope is still working ... ^-^
TK
thank you for the supplied information, I'll be placing an order for the scope in the next few days.
I'll do the upgrade after I have become familiar with all operations of the scope, so that I can do some accurate comparisons before and after.
On another note I notice that some folks are offering the Rigol 1074Z for around $466 USD. It is a 70 MHz version, look alike to the 1054Z, but some say hackable to 200 MHz. It may or may not include the S option on board, ( less connectors), which is a two channel signal generator.
I'll buy the 1054Z, but was just wondering if anyone here has researched the 1074Z?
Thanks for your input and help.
Regards, ION
Hi ION
I bought the 1074S version, the dual DDS although handy is limited to 5V output and not easy to set the frequency as you need to dial it in digit by digit using a rotary knob and associated button.
Not tried the PC software, maybe that makes it easier.
but all in all very happy with this scope.
Peter
Picking up mine today :) Thanks for the info TK.
Woohoo
Uh-oh... looks like you got the Upside Down version... maybe they sent you a USA model instead of the Aussie model.... :D
O0
Ah, I see a clear case of reported Bug 103.4
"Care must be taken, if placing the scope within 5m of telecommunications equipment. In particular, cellphone imagery may be flipped 180 degrees, due to Southern polar dielectric alignment constants, in the mere presence of this Rigol product. It should also be noted, that image manipulation software has not been able to correct the problem, the image will stay upside down, due to having been taken within the Southern polar dielectric constants. Proposed solution - a hammer, several large planks of wood and a scream".
Congrats Jim :)
As Johny Carson use to say
I did not know that... :D
Very nice Jim. Looking forward to seeing those slick looking 800 x 480 scope shots. O0
Geez,
Aren't 'scopes small and light these days. My first introduction to an oscilloscope at age 16 was an old Cossor 1035 double beam job, and it took all my strength to lift it.
Smudge
actually all the photos on this forum are upside except mine and Brads I think it's hemispheric polarisation.. but I'm guessing
I was able to get the DS1054Z interfaced to the PC using UltraSigma and UltraScope software from Rigol. It seems to work well and gives a nice large display, but the layout is generic and does not look like the scopes user interface, however a lot of the controls are available. There is latency as expected.
I'll try using the LAN interface and see if it is any better.
I understand from one of Dave Jones eevblog videos that a fellow named Mahmed? (spelling) has written very good software to interface to a PC but I haven't yet found it, as it is buried in one of the lengthy eevforum blogs.
Here is the video where he mentions Mahmed's? software and the interconnects at about 1:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2qdtQkBKhc
Anyone know how to get to part 2 of this video? The initial youtube screen selection does not seem to bring it on.
Anyone who has used or can point me to a link for Mahmed's software it would be appreciated.
The scope is great and I keep finding new things it can do.
Regards, ION
Can this scope count pulses?
e.g how many pulses occur in a rotary encoder between its index pulses (1ppr)...
Quote from: ION on 2015.10.24, 21:27:58
I was able to get the DS1054Z interfaced to the PC using UltraSigma and UltraScope software from Rigol. It seems to work well and gives a nice large display, but the layout is generic and does not look like the scopes user interface, however a lot of the controls are available. There is latency as expected.
I'll try using the LAN interface and see if it is any better.
I understand from one of Dave Jones eevblog videos that a fellow named Mahmed? (spelling) has written very good software to interface to a PC but I haven't yet found it, as it is buried in one of the lengthy eevforum blogs.
Here is the video where he mentions Mahmed's? software and the interconnects at about 1:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2qdtQkBKhc
Anyone know how to get to part 2 of this video? The initial youtube screen selection does not seem to bring it on.
Anyone who has used or can point me to a link for Mahmed's software it would be appreciated.
The scope is great and I keep finding new things it can do.
Regards, ION
I don't know about "Mahmed's" software but I think Jan Teunis's works pretty well. Of course it's for Linux.... Just follow the instructions. I've used it to show live scopeshots to people in the next room over the LAN even. (You can control and display the scope from any computer on your LAN.)
http://www.teuniz.net/DSRemote/
Quote from: verpies on 2015.10.25, 15:39:05
Can this scope count pulses?
e.g how many pulses occur in a rotary encoder between its index pulses (1ppr)...
Hmmm.... it has a trigger function that can trigger on an arbitrary pulse number in a train...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8hf4_-Di3M
And it has a pretty deep memory, so you can set a slow timebase or "roll" to capture your pulses and then scroll through and count them manually...
But I don't think it has a pulse counter as such, except in the trigger function.
I found user "marmad's" software (several updated vesions) on page one of the eevblog forum here:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/software-tips-and-tricks-for-rigol-ds200040006000-ultravision-dsos/
file link: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/software-tips-and-tricks-for-rigol-ds200040006000-ultravision-dsos/?action=dlattach;attach=73265
file name is "RUU_02_03. zip
This is for interfacing to a PC. Haven't tested it as marmad is still working on the revision for the DS 1054Z. See page35, 36
EDIT: tested the current version and it is not working. There are some dll's that came with the software that might need to be properly loaded somewhere?
PS Many thanks to TK for his excellent scoposcopy learning tools for this scope.
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015.10.25, 15:49:21
But I don't think it has a pulse counter as such, except in the trigger function.
An guy at a conference told me, that counting pluses with this scope can be used to evaluate rotary incremental encoders. Do you know what "pluses" he referred to?
Quote from: verpies on 2015.11.01, 21:58:46
An guy at a conference told me, that counting pluses with this scope can be used to evaluate rotary incremental encoders. Do you know what "pluses" he referred to?
Probably this. I was just about to post this information here when I saw your post.
Just a couple of days ago Rigol released a new "firmware update" for the DS1000 series. It did include + and - pulse counters and edge counters in the Horizontal Measurements menu. But when the measurements are displayed on screen, they _misspelled_ the word "Pulses" as "Pluses" !! I was just about to post the information here when I saw your post.
And also sometimes the counter miscounts. The new firmware also makes the scope respond sluggishly to the controls especially when all four channels are on.
I made a couple of videos over the last two days showing these problems, as well as the continuing Freeze Bug problem and the Math problem. The SP2 firmware update does seem to cure the Trigger horizontal and zoom errors.
Apparently there are several versions of the "Boot Version" loaded on various scopes. If you have "Boot Version 0.0.1.2" which is the one I have, your scope will probably have the Freeze Bug. If you have the later version 0.0.1.3 you probably don't have the Freeze Bug. The "Firmware" updates do not change the Boot Version, they only change what the scope calls "SoftWare Version". The unlocking isn't affected by the new firmware and the bugs happen regardless whether the scope is unlocked to 100 MHz with all options, or "virgin" 50 MHz with only trial or no options.
And here's the biggest bugger of them all: apparently there is NO WAY that we know about to "roll back" and reinstall an earlier version of the "firmware" if you don't like the latest SP2 version. Several people on the EEVBlog forum besides me are pretty upset about this SP2 "update" situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MoYQ9wAK_E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vJcK9xX1QA
I have sent several emails to Jason the Rigol USA technician whom I first told about the Freeze Bug some months ago. He'll have a can of worms waiting for him when he checks in Monday Morning (today) no doubt.
To display the full System Information, you have to press the key sequence _very fast_: In the Trigger section, press Menu>Menu>Force>Menu then press Utility>System>System Info. If you do the sequence fast enough you'll see the full System Information screen with the Boot Version and other software bits listed. Keep trying if you don't get it at first, you really have to press the sequence very fast for it to work. In the first video above I didn't press it fast enough, but in the second video I included a still image of what the full System Information screen looks like.
Grrrrrr...... I really think that "Pluses" thing is ridiculous, and the fact that the counter miscounts in some cases is also pretty outrageous.
Well... time does fly by when you're having fun, doesn't it.
Now... Rigol USA have actually sent me a _new scope_ and I've returned the old one that had the Freeze Bug. They offered to do this, I didn't ask for it originally. I also got them to send me the new one before I would box up and return the old one. So now I'm on the _third unit_ -- the first one had the bad CH4 glitch and was returned to TEquipment the first week I had it, the second one I've been using since April, and now this third one from RigolUSA. It was delivered with the SP1 firmware and the Boot Version 0.0.1.3... so it did NOT have the "freeze bug" which seems to depend on Boot Version 0.0.1.2. O0 But it still DOES have the Math Trace Horizontal Error Bug at 500 ns/division.
But... in the meanwhile I have noticed that the SP2 firmware does fix some other bugs that I've complained about, such as the "units" of Watts resulting from an A x V trace multiplication not being carried over properly to the Measurements and the All Measure table. And setup files containing Math did not load properly with the older firmware. Since I do use this Power Computation all the time -- in fact it is the most used function for me on the scope -- and I use stored setups quite often, I decided to upgrade the new scope to the SP2 firmware.
And right away I noticed this show-stopper bug. The Measurements simply _stop working_ altogether after some random time interval and there is nothing that can get them started again, except power-cycling the scope !! This happens when there is a Math trace on the screen. And _every measurement_ that the scope can make stops working, not just the ones that might be active when the bug hits. Before I returned the "old scope" (#2) to Rigol I set them up side by side and tested them both simultaneously, and they both did the same thing: the Measurements stop after some random time interval and nothing can be done to get them started again except power-cycling the scope. Once I confirmed that the New Scope (#3) didn't have the Freeze Bug I boxed up #2 and sent it off to RigolUSA for their testing. So now I'm using the #3 scope in my daily work, even though it does have this Measurements Fail bug.
Here are the three videos I've made documenting this new bug:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faCNVDCHMbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmaWf_33dqg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6kFfy8sW68
I've reported this to Rigol USA and they immediately reproduced it on their test scopes. So there is no doubt about it, this is not "just mine" that is affected. They are supposedly working on a fix for it, have assigned a Case Number and so forth, so it's an Official Bug that they are trying to fix. EEVblog forum members have also reproduced it. It seems that it is coming along with the SP2 firmware.
The "workaround" for now, seems to be to keep the Math trace turned OFF, and just turn Math on briefly when you need to read or record a Power measurement, then turn Math off again. But work fast, because when Math is turned on it can take just a minute or less for the Measurements to fail, and then you have to power-cycle the scope to get them working again. But also, sometimes it will run on for many minutes, even an hour or more, before the Measurements fail. The time-to-fail seems to be totally random.
So let's keep our fingers crossed and hope for a new Firmware Update "soon" that will fix this severe Measurements Fail bug, the Math Horizontal Error bug, and that stupid "Pluses" typo.
Excellent work TinK! I wouldn't be surprised if Rigol
were to take you on as a consultant/evaluator. I'm
certain they'll come to realize how valuable you might
be to their efforts of producing products of quality and
reliability.
Quote from: muDped on 2015.11.29, 02:23:45
Excellent work TinK! I wouldn't be surprised if Rigol
were to take you on as a consultant/evaluator. I'm
certain they'll come to realize how valuable you might
be to their efforts of producing products of quality and
reliability.
Haha! Good thought in a perfect world. These days consumers
are the beta testers and with designed obsolescence, manufacturers just move on to the next pile of junk, promising the next release will be far better with more features everyone wants. But I'm hopeful--if TK cannot smack some sense into Rigol, nobody can.
Sadly, what you've said is probably nearer the
truth of the matter. Rigol seems to have an
unusually high level of technical incompetence
behind what has the appearance of a technically
impressive product veneer. Strange things do
happen from time to time though.
In the sixties there was an Electronics Technician
assigned to Mobile Technical Unit Seven in Yokosuka,
Japan (U.S. Navy) who served as a consultant/technical
advisor to both Akai and Sony with the blessings of
Commander Naval Forces Japan. Of course he couldn't
receive any payment for his "voluntary" services for them
but served as sort of a good-will ambassador. He was a
real electronics whiz genius with certain limitations.
Today he'd be called a savant.
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015.11.29, 01:32:30
I've reported this to Rigol USA and they immediately reproduced it on their test scopes. So there is no doubt about it, this is not "just mine" that is affected. They are supposedly working on a fix for it, have assigned a Case Number and so forth, so it's an Official Bug that they are trying to fix.
I hope that their "fix" will not be a patch that inserts more delay loops to mitigate little understood race conditions and lock contentions.
You know what I would like to see...
I'd like to see Tinsel be sent a brand new Siglent SDS1102X for review. It looks pretty nice, but if there is anything about it people would avoid, TK could find it.
(http://assets.tequipment.net/assets/1/26/DimLarge/Siglent-SDS1000X-Series-Super-Phosphor-Oscilloscope.jpg)
I say this because I have looked for some unbiased reviews and just don't see any out there yet.
Heh.... well, all the bugs I've posted about are things I've encountered in my normal ordinary daily use of the scope. I haven't done any deliberate searching for bugs, although once I find one I am trying to track down the conditions that are required to produce it.
One of my conclusions from this is that many people who own the Rigol scope just aren't really using it much, or using many of its features. Since I do, I find the bugs that they don't find.
I suppose I could repeat some of this work with the Siglent scope, if I had room for it somewhere. Looking on TEquipment, I see that they aren't really even that much more expensive than the Rigol, either (but only 2 channels of course.) Nice looking display with that color temperature thing, and larger than the Rigol's screen too. It also has an optional Power Analyzer software package, but I can't find how much extra that costs.
But I'm tired, getting very tired.
Quote from: Matt Watts on 2015.12.03, 02:45:15
You know what I would like to see...
I'd like to see Tinsel be sent a brand new Siglent SDS1102X for review. It looks pretty nice, but if there is anything about it people would avoid, TK could find it.
(http://assets.tequipment.net/assets/1/26/DimLarge/Siglent-SDS1000X-Series-Super-Phosphor-Oscilloscope.jpg)
I say this because I have looked for some unbiased reviews and just don't see any out there yet.
Am I supposed to be able to see the inline image? I see the image URL in my comment entry window, but I see only blank space in the actual comments on the thread itself.
Here's something interesting. I got a "ScopeClock Essentials Kit" from Jan at Dutchtronix yesterday (just the PCB, the preprogrammed Atmel mcu and a couple of other parts) and I spent the afternoon putting it together with other, mostly recycled, parts from my Secret Stash, and fooling around with it. It looks great on the analog scopes, and I was actually able to get an "acceptable" image with the Rigol. Low-end DSOs are notoriously crippled when it comes to good X-Y displays, but by fiddling with the horizontal timebase and the Mem Depth I found some settings that work OK. Still I wish I could get a full-screen X-Y display rather than the windowed one, but there it is.
http://www.dutchtronix.com/ScopeClockH3-1-Enhanced.htm
Cool. :)
I'm rebooting this thread since several of us now have the Rigol scope. Even after a couple of years I am still learning new features and the occasional bug or quirk, and I haven't even ever used its digital decoding features at all yet.
But I do know quite a bit about the scope and how to use its basic features. So if anyone has any questions, problems, needs information, or etc. about the Rigol DS1054z (or other DS1000 series Rigols) please let us discuss them here. And in public, because there are many Rigol users in the world and the information we can share here may benefit them (lurkers and visitors) as well.
I'm talking about any issues at all concerning the scope, from noisy fans and tricky encoder knobs and funky probe switches, to remote control software, to proper use of probe and channel attenuation, Math features, advanced Trigger features, FFT, cursor measurements, etc. Anything goes as long as it pertains to the Rigol DS1054Z!
Don't be shy! Do post screenshots if applicable, or for more complex issues, shoot a short video for YT.
Some information, features and hints that may be immediately useful:
Most of the bugs discussed earlier in this thread have been fixed by newer firmware updates. The very most recent update is 04.04.03.02 from early February 2017, which is called 00.04.04.SP3 in the default System Info screen.
Screenshots can be easily saved to a USB thumbdrive (but not all will work, you need a small sized one that is Windows-compatible) by inserting the drive in the front panel hole, and after it is recognized by the scope, pressing the green "printer" button under the Help key at top right. Unfortunately.... the scope does not have a Real Time Clock so the file saved this way will not have the correct date and time stamp. Sometimes the screensaves can take a long time, for some reason (BUG!) especially if a complex setup is in use, but STOPping the scope with the RUN/STOP button can help it go faster. You can select from several image formats in Storage>Storage>Picture>Pic Type
How to display full system information screen:
In the Trigger area on front panel, press very rapidly the sequence "Menu Menu Force Menu", then in the Utility menu press System>System Info. This gives the full Software Version number as well as Boot Version, Board Version, startup count and etc. If you need to post this info, you can use your favorite image editor to black out your Serial Number if desired.
To get to the normal Default setup, press Storage>Default. This will reset all channels to 1V/div, timebase to 1 us/div, Acquire to Normal, Mem Depth to Auto, Sweep to Auto, and turn on only CH1 with trace and Trigger level centered.
To completely reset everything including Language to Factory Default (after, say, a freeze or really unusual behaviour) press the 5th-from-top Dark Grey menu button on the left side over and over while the scope is starting up. This will reset Everything but put you at the screen where you can select your favourite Language and start reconfiguring the scope to your liking. This does NOT affect installed or unlocked Options, they will still be there, so don't worry!
To have the scope remember the last used setup when you re-start, go to Utility>System>Power Set, and set to "Last". But note a BUG here: The setting of "Bandwidth Limit" in the Channel menus goes back to Off, it doesn't remember if you set it to 20 MHz.
This is a great piece of kit, and is extremely capable but has its limits and quirks. The User Interface is not really all that intuitive and is the source of many complaints, but I think it is just a matter of getting used to it. The scope is waaayy more capable than any other that I know of in the price range and intended user community. Have fun, and don't hesitate to ask questions or report problems, issues, bugs, etc!
Thanks for putting all that info together and for keeping this thread updated.
I haven't delved too deeply into the operation, the scope was a gift to myself after surviving my last physical operation (hospital). I figured it's now or never! I have a large Phillips DSO, and a large collection of TEK's tube and SS types and others going all the way back.
I really just wanted something that would print to USB, tired of trying to take camera shots of the 465 screen. This scope offers way more than I will ever need. At high frequencies readings on these devices will be only as good as the operator's experience working with HF circuits.
Experienced RF guys (I'm not one) would probably roll their eyes at the way some of us make measurements, and I'm sure there is much to be learned in the scopes application in this area, the pluses and minuses of the scope itself.
All in all, it is a lot of scope for the buck and I hope to take a crash course soon, so it is good to know you are out there blazing the trail for us.
Thanks TK
Thanks TK. I'm still in the unconscious incompetent stage of learning. I don't yet know what I don't know. Just your comment above has been helpful.
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015.11.02, 13:44:32
The new firmware also makes the scope respond sluggishly to the controls especially when all four channels are on.
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2017.05.17, 18:53:36
Most of the bugs discussed earlier in this thread have been fixed by newer firmware updates. The very most recent update is 04.04.03.02 from early February 2017, which is called 00.04.04.SP3 in the default System Info screen.
Is this firmware sluggish like the other one you mentioned?
Do you recommend installing it?
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2017.05.17, 18:53:36
But I do know quite a bit about the scope and how to use its basic features. So if anyone has any questions, problems, needs information, or etc. about the Rigol DS1054z (or other DS1000 series Rigols) please let us discuss them here.
Can this scope save its screenshots directly to an external computer that's connected to it via the Ethernet port?
Quote from: verpies on 2017.05.17, 23:30:52
Is this firmware sluggish like the other one you mentioned?
Not as bad but I'm not bothered by it myself. Just turn the knobs slowly!
Quote
Do you recommend installing it?
Yes, because it (and the one before it) does solve some pretty severe issues such as the "RMS Bleedover" and some other math bugs. Also solves the Freeze Bug for early Boot Versions like 1.2.
Quote
Can this scope save its screenshots directly to an external computer that's connected to it via the Ethernet port?
Yes, using DSRemote or the software that came with the scope, UltraVision I think. (I never use it, DSRemote is much better, but is for Linux.) The save is initiated from the software on the computer though, not from the scope's "print" button.
http://www.teuniz.net/DSRemote/
The one thing that bugs me with this scope!so far!,is this bloody !wait! rubbish--waiting for what?
Happily looking at a wave form,and then the scope freezes,and this green !wait! sign starts flashing in the top left corner--where the red !stop! show's when you push the stop button.
This can go on for minute's--but waiting for what?
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2017.05.18, 11:17:28
This can go on for minute's--but waiting for what?
For the triggering event.
Putting the trigger in the "Auto" mode periodically triggers the scope even in the absence of triggering events.
Quote from: verpies on 2017.05.18, 11:39:32
For the triggering event.
Putting the trigger in the "Auto" mode periodically triggers the scope even in the absence of triggering events.
Well,not sure what you mean !waiting! for the triggering event.
One minute it is reading a wave form,then on comes this flashing !wait! light,and scope freezes.
I have not seen mine freeze at all. I can try to replicate to make sure you didn't get a lemon.
Yes, it sounds to me like the scope is just waiting for a triggering event. Brad, can you post a screenshot or a short video of the scope when this happens?
In the Trigger section on the front panel, the "Mode" button switches between the three Sweep Modes: Auto, Normal, and Single. When the Mode is Auto, the scope free-runs and shows a trace even if it is not triggered. When the mode is Normal, the scope waits for a trigger event before it will update the trace on screen. When the mode is Single, it waits for a trigger event then does one full sweep and Stops.
If the scope is in Auto sweep mode and you are getting that "Wait", then there might be something wrong. But if it is in Normal sweep mode, it is just telling you that your Trigger parameters aren't satisfied.
(This is different from the "Auto" setup button in the very top row of buttons! I am talking about the Auto Sweep Mode selected in the Trigger section of the panel, not what happens when you push that "Auto" setup button!)
By "Trigger Event" we mean something that satisfies what you have set in your Trigger menu and the vertical position of the Trigger Level indicator. So for example say you are looking at a Sine Wave of varying amplitude, and you are in Normal sweep mode, and your Trigger Type is set to "rising edge" and your Trigger Level is set to + 1 volt. The scope will Wait until the signal amplitude is over 1 Volt and will only trigger when it is over. When the signal level drops below 1 volt the scope will stop sweeping and will be "Wait"ing for the next time the signal exceeds the 1 volt setting. And it will continue to show a "frozen picture" of the last triggered sweep, unless you push the "Clear" button in the top row.
This should not be any different than how the old Atten or any other DSO behaves though.
Brad we should try to get this issue sorted right away, so that IF there actually IS something wrong with the scope, you can return it under the Vendor's warranty and get a replacement immediately.
Quote from: TinMan on 2017.05.18, 11:50:57
Well,not sure what you mean !waiting! for the triggering event.
It means that it is waiting for the condition defined in the trigger menu, to be satisfied.
Maybe this will help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieCQGFWAitk
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2017.05.18, 23:15:21
Maybe this will help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieCQGFWAitk
Ahhh I'm yet to get out of auto mode. That helped me understand lots of things . Thanks.
Ok I don't get this . My TBP are stacked with a ferrite core.
Quote from: JimBoot on 2017.05.21, 11:42:19
Ok I don't get this . My TBP are stacked with a ferrite core.
Dear Jim
It looks correct, you are reading input current pulses across an inductance (primary TBF, yellow ch), not seeing peaks because pulses somewhat smoothed by the two capacitors, C1, C2.
The current pulses are coupled to the unloaded secondary of TBF, blue trace.
Perhaps someone else could also describe. What is the question?
Regards
Sharks and elephants.
Your sharks are eating your elephants.
Mm I though the elephants were trampling the sharks. I thought the yellow should leading and it looks like it's trailing. Thought I may have a setting wrong.
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2017.05.18, 17:11:28
Yes, it sounds to me like the scope is just waiting for a triggering event. Brad, can you post a screenshot or a short video of the scope when this happens?
In the Trigger section on the front panel, the "Mode" button switches between the three Sweep Modes: Auto, Normal, and Single. When the Mode is Auto, the scope free-runs and shows a trace even if it is not triggered. When the mode is Normal, the scope waits for a trigger event before it will update the trace on screen. When the mode is Single, it waits for a trigger event then does one full sweep and Stops.
If the scope is in Auto sweep mode and you are getting that "Wait", then there might be something wrong. But if it is in Normal sweep mode, it is just telling you that your Trigger parameters aren't satisfied.
(This is different from the "Auto" setup button in the very top row of buttons! I am talking about the Auto Sweep Mode selected in the Trigger section of the panel, not what happens when you push that "Auto" setup button!)
By "Trigger Event" we mean something that satisfies what you have set in your Trigger menu and the vertical position of the Trigger Level indicator. So for example say you are looking at a Sine Wave of varying amplitude, and you are in Normal sweep mode, and your Trigger Type is set to "rising edge" and your Trigger Level is set to + 1 volt. The scope will Wait until the signal amplitude is over 1 Volt and will only trigger when it is over. When the signal level drops below 1 volt the scope will stop sweeping and will be "Wait"ing for the next time the signal exceeds the 1 volt setting. And it will continue to show a "frozen picture" of the last triggered sweep, unless you push the "Clear" button in the top row.
This should not be any different than how the old Atten or any other DSO behaves though.
Brad we should try to get this issue sorted right away, so that IF there actually IS something wrong with the scope, you can return it under the Vendor's warranty and get a replacement immediately.
All good,was user error lol.
Now set to auto,in stead of normal O0
Brad
I don't understand what I'm looking at here obviously it's not 412v so what is it actually measuring? I have the yellow channel across the pulse TBP coil and the blue across two TBP coils wound in series either side of the pulse coil with a ferrite rod through the centre. So a transformer basically.
Quote from: JimBoot on 2017.06.03, 06:50:41
I don't understand what I'm looking at here obviously it's not 412v so what is it actually measuring? I have the yellow channel across the pulse TBP coil and the blue across two TBP coils wound in series either side of the pulse coil with a ferrite rod through the centre. So a transformer basically.
I would say you have your scopes probe voltage set to 10x or 100x,instead of 1x :D
It's not unusual to get really high voltages induced in the secondary, by fast rise/fall times in the primary.
But just to be sure, check that your switch on the CH2 probe itself is set to 10x and the CH2 channel setting is also set to 10x. The thickness of the trace in the third scopeshot is a little suspicious.
Yep I checked the probe switches before posting. Both 10X . Just wanted to check I wasn't missing something basic as is often the case :)
So, you have the channel set to 100 v/div and the automatic Measurement of Vp-p is showing the correct value of what the trace is showing.
I'm a little worried about the thickness of the trace, that's kind of unusual, but the high p-p voltage value in itself doesn't strike me as being strange at all.
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2017.06.03, 23:12:26
So, you have the channel set to 100 v/div and the automatic Measurement of Vp-p is showing the correct value of what the trace is showing.
I'm a little worried about the thickness of the trace, that's kind of unusual, but the high p-p voltage value in itself doesn't strike me as being strange at all.
I guessing that if Jim shortens the time base to expand the wide trace horizontally he will see there is some RF or at least some high frequency component riding on the main signal causing the wide scope trace. I have seen that before.
Thanks blokes! I will check after dinner :) Just cooking a roast with home grown veggies :)
I just posted a new video slideshow of some interesting (I hope!) scopeshots illustrating the capabilities of the Rigol DS1054Z scope. Watch in 720p, pause to study, Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKoGxtbqpGg
Thanks TK
Very interesting, I had not realized you could zoom like that.
Peter
It does, and I still have only hit the more basic capabilities of the scope. It can also decode several digital communication protocols, which I have yet to learn how to do, and it has many trigger options that I haven't demonstrated yet.
Once it is "hacked" the true -3dB bandwidth is actually about 130 MHz. The 100 MHz intensity-graded amplitude-modulated sine wave scopeshot was generated by my old HP 8640B RF signal generator and shows almost no falloff at 100MHz.
indeed, it is quiet amazing for it's price, I've hardly switched mine on.
I have the version with dual sig gen on board as well, one day I will get the time to appreciate it a bit more, I would love to see what the Ethernet control is like as well.
A great application for remote control of the scope is "DSRemote" but I think that it only comes in a Linux version. But with any Windows terminal emulator like telnet or winterm you can communicate with the scope using SCPI commands that are given in the Rigol Programming Guide.
DSRemote is better though and if you have a real need for full control it's probably worth it to set up a Linux system if you don't already have one.
https://www.teuniz.net/DSRemote/
Instructions for building in your Linux environment seem complex but are easy to follow and worked for me just fine.
Very interesting thanks TK
Woah!
3:26 in the vid...how did you do the clock thing ?
Forgive me if it's a scene and I do normally watch your vids TK, but it's the first time i've seen that.
Second question, which relates to the first - can we play Asteroids on these scopes ? 8)
The clock thing is an x-y display of the output of a neat little gadget called "ScopeClock".
http://www.dutchtronix.com/ScopeClockH3-1-Enhanced.htm
It looks a lot better on an analog scope though.
Hmmm, cheers for the link, got nearly everything for that.
There's an EICO TR-410 here that still powers up and would look great with such a thing.
Good to know that the 1054Z works with it too. It would be one project where the builder wouldn't mind it being a non runner at first, using the scope to track down the fault.
Btw, do you know if the Channel 1 bug still applies on the 1054Z ?
I do everything that's single channel using Channel 2, for fear of some gremlins launching out from the screen.
What's the Channel 1 bug? I think I've encountered just about all of them, but I can't think of which one you mean. Can you describe it further?
Oh, shoot, if it doesn't exist then i'm going to feel embarrassed !
Well, the basis was that if Channels 1 and 3 are used together, the readings on Channel 1 could be messed up. Other combinations or 3 channels/4 channels being fine.
That's why I use Channel 2 for single measuring, then if another thing needs measuring during the session, i'm sure to not have 1 and 3 be the channels.
If that doesn't exist then i've got into an unneeded habit with an unknown source.
Uh OK, I think I know what you mean. There seemed to be a lot of measurement crosstalk between channels in some cases, such that even a channel set to GND coupling and with no input at all, would give weird measurement readings especially RMS values when another channel was in use.
See example shot below. Is this the problem you mean?
This has actually been fixed in the most recent firmware update, I believe.
Most recent firmware is 00.04.04.03.02, identified in the short System Info screen as 00.04.04.SP3
As far as I can tell the only major bug remaining, that could be fixed in software, is the "Pluses" spelling error.
Yes, that looks right, although i'm not sure of the speciifics. It wasn't a huge deal, just wrong and could be avoided. I find it quite ironic that in your shot it's Channel 2 with the bug !
Good to know about the firmware fix...mine is still stock and hasn't had the unlock done on it either. Perhaps it would be wise to do both.
Yes, definitely install the latest firmware. The firmware and instructions and release notes are here:
http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/fs/blocks/showLandingPage/a/1579/p/p-0019/t/page/fm/0
Unlocking is good too, and you needn't feel guilty about it since Rigol are now giving the options away free with new purchases of the scope. (They think Siglent is about to come out with a really exciting scope in the same price point.)
Many thanks O0
That's good news about the unlock...I could run it without the curtains drawn or the lights dimmed. Which is quite handy, because we don't have curtains and the bulbs don't dim lol
Bitluni has a fantastic vid, just out.
His humour can be great..in this one the quick unboxing of the scope is hilarious, but he also gives a huge amount of technical info.
The vid shows how to draw 3D mesh's on the 1054's screen, using an ESP32 !
Also, how to display real-time camera images on it !!!!! and !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_n8PtMMLiQ
O0 O0 O0
:D
So what is the best firmware version for this scope nowadays ?
Mine is up to version, unlocked and bumped up to 100Mhz.
I really like this scope.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2019.01.26, 03:05:19
Mine is up to version, unlocked and bumped up to 100Mhz.
I really like this scope.
Which version?
I'm happy with the scope itself, but beware of measurements with some probes that came with Rigol 1054Z
I found that they all work fine in the 10X position, the inserted resistance is right around 9.02 Meg Ohms, except for one which reads 9.68 Meg.
The X1 position is another story, with inserted series resistance varying widely from around 200 ohms to over 600 ohms or more depending on the probe. Working the switch back and forth can clean it up temporarily but the resistance value seems to jump around quite a bit.
This may lead to flaky measurements in the X1 position. I found the probes to be quite a nuisance due to the intermittent nature of the X1 X10 switch. Has anyone else seen this?
The input resistance at the scope BNC is spot on for all channels at 1.000 Meg Ohms
I'm looking to use some contact cleaner / anti oxidant that a drop into the switch may help.
I upgraded the firmware to Ver. 00.04.03.02.03 recently and it seems to work fine. I don't have a lot of experience with the finer nuances of the scope so cannot say whether this is the best version or not.
Attempts at unlocking after the upgrade have not been successful, but mostly due to my many errors entering the key. I'll try again after the clock resets, as others have unlocked with this version.
FWIW
Quote from: ion on 2019.01.28, 01:12:51
...
This may lead to flaky measurements in the X1 position. I found the probes to be quite a nuisance due to the intermittent nature of the X1 X10 switch. Has anyone else seen this?
...
Exactly the same problem with the 200 MHz probes provided with my Siglent SDS1202X-E.