Under construction.....will be adding more info {LUC will also be adding ]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILzWmw53Wwo
Will watch the vid shortly.
Am just wondering how you would vertically farm a fish ?
I mean, I know that salmon swim upstream for spawning, but the term 'extreme living' applies if its head was pointing at the sky all its life.
;D
Edit after watching vid - Yup, no disagreements from me. That's the idea and is the direction.
If I can grow trees from seeds, in a bedroom in winter, then just build the things and grow whatever you want (legally of course).
My USB powered method uses white LED's too, but that's common sense to see what is growing and any leaf discolourations etc. The only pest trouble ever here over the last couple of years was when I opened the window for airflow and air change for a couple of days. The resulting spider mites were ridded with washing up liquid sprayed on the leaves...zero chemicals in the soil and zero added any other time.
Quote from: Chet K on 2015.08.09, 14:43:10
Under construction.....will be adding more info {LUC will also be adding ]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILzWmw53Wwo
Thanks Chet for starting a topic on this interesting food growing concept. It would be great if grocery stores would add a few floors to their existing buildings and start using these new growing technology.
Now that you brought this to our attention, in the next few days I will share some of my own ideas and work experience of alternative ways of growing plants.
This past winter I was doing some volunteer work in a semi Southern location where it does not snow. One of the many things I was helping with is maintaining a hydroponics plant growing system. After some months I had new ideas to improve the existing system. However, these improvement ideas were always put on the back burner until the very last month of my stay. So unfortunately I didn't even have time to take pictures or do a video. I will email the person responsible as I think he has some pictures of it when it was first setup which will help with the explanations. Once I have them I'll get back to the topic.
Luc
Mark and Luc
I am trying to get some info on power needs for these Vertical indoor LED Light farms ,it seems The Chinese have advanced greatly in this area however I cannot
find much info [formal info] only bloggers commenting on Hydroponic and similar Blogs.
In the Northeast USA we have many, many abandoned factories on rivers and streams, the hydro power available to run this type of farming indoors is staggering.
I have started meeting with local government reps about utilizing this wasted empty space for very useful research and development.
I believe Luc's ideas as well as some others can make this a win win scenario ,If we ever do happen upon an OU power generation device this type application would be
most irresistible ,Hydroponic farming uses 99% less water, scrubs carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and vertical farming concepts can bring yield per acre into
the thousands of percent higher efficiencies than standard open field methods.
not to forget No pesticides and such required.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILzWmw53Wwo
Please share any thoughts and info...
respectfully
Chet K
PS
Also to note is Rob Mason's work [evolvingape] which would most likely make this Viable in any location .completely autonomous of the grid ]
For lighting needs:
Think of how many times you might have seen a Slayer Exciter, running off 5V and say 100mA, able to light banks of LED's.
Replace (most of) the whites with red and blues.
Or...a pump is presumably used to carry water around the system. A drop in height of the water from the top tier to the bottom again, will be able to turn a water wheel generator. It may be more efficient conventionally to run a gravity based system, but depending on the grow area design, with the lighting needs factored in, it may prove to be effective running it another way around. That other way bringing the opportunity for the waterwheel.
Or...solar panels on the roof could supply to Li-Ion batteries. The Tesla PowerWall sort of concept could be used for solar storage.
Or...perhaps there can be thoughts on Peltier units within the walls of the building. North facing, for the harshest of weather in Northern climates, the difference between the growing area temp and outside could generate quite the output.
There's no need to think conventionally about the power needs of the lighting system :)
Indoor vertical farming -- what a great concept!
I'm enjoying the discussion. As Mark said, these little circuits are great for lighting red and blue LED bulbs, which are used for indoor plants.
Good ideas also, Chet and Luc!
If you want to breed fish as well,then the fish will feed the plants,and the plants filter the water for the fish.
Sounds like a winner to me O0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nfcat6jXBo
Yes this combination is win win
I believe luc has taken the dry food out and replaced it with worms !
That are part of the systems filtration (they grow in abundance)
For clarity the dry foods for raising fish can be quite suspect in there ingredients
I remember heavy metals and such were found in cheap dryvfish foods
Imported from China
Raising the food for the fish as part of their filtration as well as plant fertilizer
Is a goal which makes a small self contained Eco system.
I believe he will be posting on this Monday with a few pics too ??
Looking forward to Luc's update.
Can't see myself raising fish...in the bedroom LOL
Never mind a bunch of worms crawling around :o
The fish in the bearded dudes video would need earmuffs, not sure where all that noise is coming from. It's a good overview, thanks TinMan for the vid.
Particularly attractive, are systems where the fish pond looks like any other garden pond. Powered by a solar water pump, fish are able to mix around the water system, it gets moved up to the plants and looks like a garden feature, not industrial. Plumbing can be colour coded to match any fencing, trellis, walls etc. Plants are in sections by type, similar to a nursery.
The right kind of planning could produce a very attractive system, where it doesn't look like a green scrapyard of bits. Couple of white lawn chairs, drinks table, you get the idea :)
My son just bought this around for me. Its a pump with filter system.
240 volt AC-mains.
1000 LTRs an hour @ 1.5 meters head,or 500 LTRs an hour @ 2.5 meters head.
The bottom tray is full of filter rocks,so im thinking that is where the slow release fertilizer will be going. O0
Now for a strip and clean.
The LED lights i will probably make my self,as it will work out at about 1/5th the cost to buy the same already assembled.
Next job-clean out the garage for our indoor vegie garden.
Quote from: TinMan on 2015.08.15, 10:20:13
If you want to breed fish as well,then the fish will feed the plants,and the plants filter the water for the fish.
Sounds like a winner to me O0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nfcat6jXBo
best fertiliser for my vegie patch is water from the dam that is full of Southern Smelt also known as mossie fish. They keep the wrigglers at bay (mossie larvae)
A good vegtable to try would be Runner Bean in the UK, although tall, Pygmy bushing varieties are available, the thing with runner beans is the root will remain viable for more than one year, the only thing in the UK is that when outside any frost kills the root otherwise they would re grow next year as well.
If the nutrients can be got right they are a big cropper and Delicious.
In the garden we did well this year so far, we are eating fresh Runner beans, Peas, Parsnips, Potatoes, Spring Onions, Large Onions & Beetroot
A good mini-database, would be to assemble grow notes from people here who are going to try indoor growing.
Regular practices, crops grown, yield, nutrients used and compare results against what would be expected.
In the spring, plant the new growth that have germinated over winter and those that have survived winter, compare against regular seed grown.
With LED's, you can begin growing whenever you like and take outdoors whenever you like, if you even take them outdoors.
Your example Peterae would be ideal of the Runner Bean. Can the root be kept going ?
I would say that's a great project. As long as your house is normally above freezing point that is ! :)
Hang on....it's the root. Just lift a 2ftx2ft sod of soil and stick it in the airing cupboard LOL
@ Brad That looks like a good Pump and the price was right O0
Making the LED arrays is a terrific plan.
@
Yes Picking the best crop for the application would be Wise [high nutrition fast growth good yields] ,also I wonder how hardy the plants leaves would be if the Hydroponics
are kept warm ?
I will be calling High power Pink LED lighting manufacturers this week to get a grasp on power needs for these facilities ,and to see just how helpful they are with
sharing there findings/research in this field as well as bulk pricing for their products.
Jim
perhaps you can price the LEDs in your area Too ? [I will be getting part numbers and such here]
also
Tinsel and Mark E are working on a super efficient circuit for high power LED's at OU.Com here
http://overunity.com/15976/high-efficiency-led-for-joule-thief-etc/msg459159/#new
and just a reminder of one goal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILzWmw53Wwo
raising fish to be added [Talapia has been one recommendation]
Apparently to get the correct wavelength and proportion of wavelength they look to be using as one choice Cree XP-E series
http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED%20Components%20and%20Modules/XLamp/Data%20and%20Binning/XLampXPE.pdf
3 red (620-630nm) to 1 Royal Blue (450-465nm)
Quote from: Chet K on 2015.08.16, 13:24:53
also
Tinsel and Mark E are working on a super efficient circuit for high power LED's at OU.Com here
http://overunity.com/15976/high-efficiency-led-for-joule-thief-etc/msg459159/#new
@Chet
For best growth,the LEDs need to be in an on state-no pulses.
Plants work on the same principle as solar panels-->photons. The more photons the better.
You might fool the eye,but you wont fool the plant O0
The most efficient way to drive an LED to get the most light from them is straight DC. Pulsed systems give the illusion of putting out more light for less power,but this is only what your eyes see. The plants will see through this little scam lol.
Little scam?
I hate to disappoint you but the LED + AP2502 combo does NOT pulse the LED(s) unless you either connect it to a JT, or modulate the Enable pin with a PWM signal.
In the two demonstration videos I've posted so far, Yes the LED is pulsed: In the first short one I'm pulsing the Enable pin to demonstrate how bright the LED is at only 6mW average applied power (10 percent duty cycle), and in the second one I show that the combo works as a JT load, where it is pulsing at about 50 percent ON duty cycle but with an input voltage to the JT of less than 1.5 V. Neither of these videos show the LED running at 20 mA without pulsing, because it is just _too bright_ to show up well on the camera. And at the 100mA that the LED is rated for.... it's blinding.
The LED that I use in those demonstrations is current-limited by the AP2502 to 20 mA. But each of the 4 "output" sinks in the chip can be paralleled onto a single LED, so you can drive the LED with 20 mA, 40 mA, 60 mA or even 80 mA... and that particular LED is STILL not fully bright at even 80 mA current. The chip is a linear current regulator, not a switchmode device.
Hopefully I have some more of the LEDs coming to me, and then I'll do a demonstration where I actually drive the LED at 80-100 mA DC without pulse modulation. The LED I use is practically the most efficient LED on the market, and the AP2502 current sink regulates the current very efficiently without the losses incurred by using an inline resistor.
Do you think that fluorescent growlight systems aren't pulsing/flickering faster than the eye can see? CFLs? How about ordinary LED replacement bulbs driven by the mains? Flickering, or not?
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015.08.17, 02:22:07
Little scam?
I hate to disappoint you but the LED + AP2502 combo does NOT pulse the LED(s) unless you either connect it to a JT, or modulate the Enable pin with a PWM signal.
In the two demonstration videos I've posted so far, Yes the LED is pulsed: In the first short one I'm pulsing the Enable pin to demonstrate how bright the LED is at only 6mW average applied power (10 percent duty cycle), and in the second one I show that the combo works as a JT load, where it is pulsing at about 50 percent ON duty cycle but with an input voltage to the JT of less than 1.5 V. Neither of these videos show the LED running at 20 mA without pulsing, because it is just _too bright_ to show up well on the camera. And at the 100mA that the LED is rated for.... it's blinding.
The LED that I use in those demonstrations is current-limited by the AP2502 to 20 mA. But each of the 4 "output" sinks in the chip can be paralleled onto a single LED, so you can drive the LED with 20 mA, 40 mA, 60 mA or even 80 mA... and that particular LED is STILL not fully bright at even 80 mA current. The chip is a linear current regulator, not a switchmode device.
Hopefully I have some more of the LEDs coming to me, and then I'll do a demonstration where I actually drive the LED at 80-100 mA DC without pulse modulation. The LED I use is practically the most efficient LED on the market, and the AP2502 current sink regulates the current very efficiently without the losses incurred by using an inline resistor.
Do you think that fluorescent growlight systems aren't pulsing/flickering faster than the eye can see? CFLs? How about ordinary LED replacement bulbs driven by the mains? Flickering, or not?
Lol-what I ment by scam is from the plants point of view-not your pulsed LED driver.
Plants know and feel the difference between pulsed light and continuous light-just like a solar panel dose.
Never used CFLs for growing plants, always used sodium, and like the sunlight, they have no flicker-not sure about CFLs flickering unless the globe or starter is RS-I dont think a good CFL flickers, as the gas dosnt have time to cool between pulses.
As i have many powerful white LED's,and apparently we need red and blue for best results,i ask this question.
Is there any reason i cant just use a transparent red and blue color plastic like cellophane to change the color of the light output from the white LED's. I mean-if the light is turned from white to blue and red,do we not have the correct wave lengths of light needed?.
Good question
Will try to get an answer
Quote from: TinMan on 2015.08.15, 10:20:13
If you want to breed fish as well,then the fish will feed the plants,and the plants filter the water for the fish.
Sounds like a winner to me O0
Yes, growing fish at the same time as plants is an excellent combination as you can use the fish tank water which will contains fish excrements (poop) to water the plants and at the same time fertilize them.
I volunteered 6 month of my time last winter at an organization which was researching alternative energy and self sustaining living, so part of the help I did was to maintaining the Aquaponic system they had for experimenting on self sustainability.
The below picture is the tanks they used on the project. The below picture is what the tank aka CAGE TOTE looks like unmodified.
These tanks are used in industry to transport liquids, so the ones used in the food industry can safely be used (after cleaning) as an inexpensive fish tank. They are a good idea since they are light (when empty) to pickup. Even when full they can be moved with a floor pump truck as they are mounted on a wood skid.
The idea here is to cut a small part of the upper part of the tank and flip it over on some added steel electrical conduit pipes (across the steel frame) to support it, which is what you are seeing completed in the picture. This upper tank is what is used for the plants and the bottom tank is for the fish.
I will continue posting later on tonight as there is a lot to this.
Luc
Quote from: TinMan on 2015.08.17, 11:31:45
As i have many powerful white LED's,and apparently we need red and blue for best results,i ask this question.
Is there any reason i cant just use a transparent red and blue color plastic like cellophane to change the color of the light output from the white LED's. I mean-if the light is turned from white to blue and red,do we not have the correct wave lengths of light needed?.
The wavelengths are already there. A coloured plastic "gel" only filters out some wavelengths and allows the others to pass. They don't magically increase the intensity of parts of the spectrum, they just decrease the intensity of the colours you don't want to see.
A "white" LED is putting out a combination of colours to make your eyes think it's seeing white light. Some work by actually making UV and using that to make a chemical coating fluoresce "white". Others work by using actual R, G, and B LEDs all emitting together to make "white" light as perceived by the eye.
So putting coloured filters between the white LED and your plants will only decrease the total light available and won't actually intensify any particular colour.
Quote from: gotoluc on 2015.08.17, 13:15:16
Yes, growing fish at the same time as plants is an excellent combination as you can use the fish tank water which will contains fish excrements (poop) to water the plants and at the same time fertilize them.
I volunteered 6 month of my time last winter at an organization which was researching alternative energy and self sustaining living, so part of the help I did was to maintaining the Aquaponic system they had for experimenting on self sustainability.
The below picture is the tanks they used on the project. The next picture is what the tank aka CAGE TOTES looks like unmodified.
These tanks are used in industry to transport liquids, so the ones used in the food industry can safely be used (after cleaning) as an inexpensive fish tank. They are a good idea since they are light (when empty) to pickup. Even when full they can be moved with a floor pump truck as they are mounted on a wood skid. The idea here is to cut a small part of the upper part of the tank and flip it over on some added steel electrical conduit pipes (across the steel frame) to support it, which is what you are seeing completed in the picture. This upper tank is what is used for the plants and the bottom tank is for the fish.
I will continue posting later on tonight as there is a lot to this.
Luc
Thanks for your help on this project Luc O0
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015.08.17, 13:24:56
The wavelengths are already there. A coloured plastic "gel" only filters out some wavelengths and allows the others to pass. They don't magically increase the intensity of parts of the spectrum, they just decrease the intensity of the colours you don't want to see.
A "white" LED is putting out a combination of colours to make your eyes think it's seeing white light. Some work by actually making UV and using that to make a chemical coating fluoresce "white". Others work by using actual R, G, and B LEDs all emitting together to make "white" light as perceived by the eye.
So putting coloured filters between the white LED and your plants will only decrease the total light available and won't actually intensify any particular colour.
Thanks for the info TK.
So white LED's should do just as good as mixed blue and red one's?-given they have a decent power output.
You know, in a broad and cursory way I agree with TinMan and certainly see the thinking.
White is a combinations of all colours.
I will educate myself on the construction of different LED's.
See, a red LED with low forward voltage and high lumens, could, to my thinking become a blue LED, or at least magenta, by using blue plastic in its construction.
But, reds use the least power, greens most and all others traditionally sit between.
Why not make 1 efficient diode and then stick different coloured plastic over the material for colour variations ?
Thanks Luc for the highly interesting insights into the project experience O0
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015.08.17, 13:24:56
The wavelengths are already there. A coloured plastic "gel" only filters out some wavelengths and allows the others to pass. They don't magically increase the intensity of parts of the spectrum, they just decrease the intensity of the colours you don't want to see.
A "white" LED is putting out a combination of colours to make your eyes think it's seeing white light. Some work by actually making UV and using that to make a chemical coating fluoresce "white". Others work by using actual R, G, and B LEDs all emitting together to make "white" light as perceived by the eye.
So putting coloured filters between the white LED and your plants will only decrease the total light available and won't actually intensify any particular colour.
I agree, use white leds and you will not miss the frequency you need, white light is a mix of all frequencies as in sun light, intensity is another matter, closer the equator the higher the UV!!!! do we need higher UV? that I can't answer, need someone who is high in biology. :)
I think it is a question of reaction to different frequencies "light being a mixture of frequencies", careful, maybe a plant is OU ??? one of those----don't dive in too deep problems O0
regards
Mike 8)
It is more efficient to use Red & Royal Blue as these are very close to all a plant uses, White only wastes energy in the rest of the spectrum, with filters you are throwing away energy in unused wavelengths.
The pros have worked all this out for us Scientifically with plant spectrum plots.
Quote from: Slider2732 on 2015.08.17, 17:58:32
You know, in a broad and cursory way I agree with TinMan and certainly see the thinking.
White is a combinations of all colours.
Not necessarily. White _sunlight_ or light from incandescent filaments is a combination of all colors. But the human visual system can be fooled into "seeing" white light from a combination of spectrally pure R, G and B colors only. White LEDs do not necessarily emit "white", that is, a continuous spectrum from 400 to 700 nanometers. As I said before, they could be R, G and B, emitting narrow bands at those colors at the right intensity. Or they could be UV, making a fluorescent coating glow at wavelengths that cause the visual system to see "white".
Quote
I will educate myself on the construction of different LED's.
See, a red LED with low forward voltage and high lumens, could, to my thinking become a blue LED, or at least magenta, by using blue plastic in its construction.
You can do that but you will only be decreasing the light power, as some is inevitably lost in the filter. You cannot increase the light power at a given wavelength by filtering out other wavelengths, and no colored gel filter is a "perfect notch filter" because it will also attenuate the bandpass wavelengths somewhat too.
Quote
But, reds use the least power, greens most and all others traditionally sit between.
Why not make 1 efficient diode and then stick different coloured plastic over the material for colour variations ?
Why not make a R, G and B diode and use different combinations of intensity driving, to synthesize any visual color you want? But just like the case of using filters, you may not be getting the _actual wavelengths_ of light that you need, no matter what the result looks like. And as before, filters only attenuate, they do not amplify or enhance what is already there.
Quote
Thanks Luc for the highly interesting insights into the project experience O0
Take a strong magnifying glass and look closely at your monitor screen, at the white areas of this page. Do you see any "white" LED areas in there? Do you see a mix of "all" colors? Or do you see R, G and B only?
This is part 2 continued details on the hydroponic system I was working with.
It was found that adding some river (pebble size) stones (not crushed stone) on the bottom of the fish tank gave a positive result which would mimic a more natural environment.
The kind of fish used in the tank system are called Tilapia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilapia see 1st picture. They are generally a fresh water fish that can live in shallow water and in cramped environments. However, they favor water above 21 °C (70 °F) to normally function. These fish are favored because they are robust, growth fast in the right temperature environment and makes a tasty fish Taco or meal.
Also added to a tank is one bottom feeder fish known as a Pleco which is a kind of Cat fish, 2nd picture. This fish helps to keep the surfaces of the tank and bottom clean as it feeds on these surfaces. It also needs the water temperature to be in the same range as the Tilapia.
One thing to note is, the Tilapia have fine teeth and would consider eating other fish that are smaller then them including their own. So you have to keep them sorted in close to the same size per tank. The Pleco is quite large when full grown so the Tilapia don't bother them.
When I first started helping (beginning of November) the nights were starting to get cooler and they asked if I could come up with ideas to help maintain the water temperature as eventually even the 500 watt heating element added to each tank to maintain the water temperature wouldn't be able to keep up with the coldest months still to come of December and January. Obviously coming from a cold winter climate country like Canada Insulation was what came to mind. What I decided to use was cans of expansion spray foam. I carefully sprayed a thin layer directly on the surface of the outside tank filling the cavities between the steel cage of the tank.
I was also asked if I could finish the exterior of the tanks so it could look more like a marketable product. So at the same time I was doing the foam insulation I thought of using exterior house siding sheets which I cut to fit and screwed to the steel cage. The 3rd picture below is the finished product.
The other thing I though of was (at night) to use a swimming pool heat blanket (see 4th picture) to cover the surface of the water since that's where most of the heat escapes. I custom cut the blankets to fit and would roll them in a tube to get it inside the tank and unroll it on the surface of the water. The same technique was used to remove them. It didn't seem to bother the fish as long as the water was aerated with bubbler air pumps. However, if the power to the air pumps would have a possibility to be cut off the fish could suffocate with lack of oxygen in the water. So one must be careful and ideally have a backup system or use a rigid foam cover that would be held above the surface of the water leaving an airspace which the fish could use to get air if the air pump was to fail. This would help but continuous aeration of water is one of the most important things for fish health. Keep this in mind as later I will share some ideas I have had to drastically reduce the power consumption these aeration pumps use and also ideas to keep the water warm all while generating electricity with just one 250 watt solar panel per tank to truly make these system energy efficient so they can easily operate off grid and truly give you a sustainable living.
Will continue to share
Luc
Ah Mr. TK
QuoteTake a strong magnifying glass and look closely at your monitor screen, at the white areas of this page. Do you see any "white" LED areas in there? Do you see a mix of "all" colors? Or do you see R, G and B only?
Yes, all understood and thanks for the explanations. The usual is a mix in intensity of R, G & B no matter the colour that the eye sees in combination.
However, this monitor is a 15" Dell CRT, perhaps one of the last still chugging along ;)
Luc,
I really do like the house siding idea in a light brown. Looks like a wooden, natural surround, rather than a space age high tech solution.
Such winter thinking is important indeed. My own thoughts are for any system to use solar as much as possible. It beggars belief that people consider solar of no use in winter months. While indeed power will be down due to daylight hours and intensity...it's still all highly practical. If a system needs 25W and you have a 100W panel out there, you'll likely still get the needed power delivery no matter the month. In summer, the extra wattage can run a cooling fan, soldering iron, extra motors, charge extra batts etc. Location will factor...lucky here in those regards being in Oklahoma.
LED driving.
A focus here has been on driving LED's brightly, for the least input.
While it has been noted about 'fooling the eye' and that is quite likely completely correct, methods should be tried with actual plant growing to prove it out.
As such, i'll be doing a control and a test, of DC and whatever test circuit ends up being seemingly most efficient.
Over last winter, my system was DC, USB input into simple resistors and 17 LED's. White were also used, to see the plants for one thing, but also to check for leaf discolouration, blotchings, diseases and such.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2780.0
Along those lines, initial experiments have been toward running simply and effectively from low voltages.
Likely, the end test system will be 5V again, it being a standard much like 12V, but also because it will form a direct comparison with known results from last year.
2 methods have been tried so far.
Both use a panel of 5x red, 5x blue and 5 x white LED's. Variable resistors are fitted that will balance output.
The first pic below is of a SWES wireless electricity setup, where the output lights the 15 via a ferrite inductor as pick up. 1.35V, 50mA.
The second pic is of a blocking oscillator, 0.02uF '203' ceramic cap and 3K tank, 120/120 windings on ferrite, 3V CR2032 coin cell at 12mA.
Both need work, both are infancy ideas. The wireless method appeals, to be able to swap out, alter or replace whole sections of lights on a larger system, without any wiring being needed. It's also my own IP, so no problems with copyrighted methods, Patents and such.
If someone would like to buy 2 of either style of the below LED Grow lights to send to a Joule Thief Guru so one can be moded and the other kept original so we can see how much power can be saved and still be able to grow a plant hopefully at the rate as the non moded one, that would be of great service.
Box light: http://www.ebay.com/itm/300W-LED-Grow-Light-Hydroponic-Plant-Veg-Flower-Full-Spectrum-Panel-Lamp-/301507617587?hash=item4633412333
or: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MarsHydro-300W-LED-Grow-Light-Full-Spectrum-Panel-Indoor-Medical-Plant-Veg-Bloom-/171620287365
Strip light: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof-81w-LED-Grow-Light-Strip-Red-Blue-Bar-Hydroponic-Indoor-Plant-Lamp-/301663638915?
Please post or PM me if you are ready to do this.
Thanks
Luc
I'd love to do that testing here. :D
Meanwhile... here's a surface-brightness comparison between one of these high-efficiency LEDs that I've been testing, and an A19, 60 Watt equivalent, 800 lumen LED desklamp bulb, 2700K color temperature. I held the 3000K color temperature MXA8-PW30-0000 LED right up against the surface of the A19 bulb, powered the LED with 95 mA (about 3.15VDC) and stopped the camera right down so that the LED was just barely overexposed. The exposure is ISO200, 1/1000 sec, f/36. The high efficiency LED is _much_ brighter than an equal area on the surface of the A19 bulb.
Luc
I will absolutely be able to aquire sample bulbs from the manufacturers ,however there is a learning curve atm
Getting the best bulbs for the job at hand will take some discußsions with vendors as well as some discussion with R +D
departments ,these bulbs are evolving daily.
Might take s few more days ?
It HSS been mentioned that cannibus growers are on the cutting edge of this tech
It has just been made legal in my area of north east ,I will be meeting with some growers
There too.
@Tinsel
The for the offer ,will surely keep you posted
Amazing difference in the output there !!!
Chet K
Chet, you got a foreign character on your keyboard ?
Would that be - ßulbs ? lol
Over here, i've now got a test circuit of high lumens and good current usage, so intend to pick anything that's growing and stick it in a pot to see if it dies >:-)
5V USB input, 63mA used via blocking oscillator.
Frequency is 5Khz.
Compares to 400mA with last years system for about the same brightness and LED count.
Cherryman at OU http://overunity.com/15976/high-efficiency-led-for-joule-thief-etc/msg459536/#msg459536 has posted a link to a cheaper price light. So if anyone can buy 2 of these for the price of one I was suggesting I'm sure it would be good enough for TK to make some tests.
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2pcs-lot-E27-E40-80W-640Red-160Blue-Hydroponics-Plant-Lighting-85-265V-LED-Grow-Light-free/835980_1699470283.html
No offers yet and hopefully the drop in price will help get a sponsor.
Luc
This is part 3 continuation of the explanation of the operation of the hydroponic fish tank system.
The below first image is a closeup to show a filter system hey had added (before my arrival) to prevent algae from taking over the fish tanks. The canister part below the filter cannot be see in the picture but it extends another foot and a half below what you can see. This filter system was a real pain as the foam filters inside the canister part needed to be cleaned every 3 days or so. The only way to clean it was to take the hoses out of the tank and open the canister and wash down the filter foam stack one by one. Even more of a pain was the filter intake hose which would get blocked within 24 hours with the same gook the foam filters had. However, when the hoses were blocked it would restrict or stop the filters water flow which was the main problem with this system. So I came up with the valve system wich you can see in the picture where I would connect a water hose and use the city water pressure to quickly flush out the debris in both intake and output hoses. This really saved a lot of time as I found the filter cleaning could now be done once a week as the main problem was the gook accumulation in the intake hose.
Now when you think about it, his gook was basically the fish poop, which should be the fertilizer for the plants but I was basically thrown out, which got me thinking, this is ridiculous, there must be a better solution. It was obvious to me that the top 3 feet x 4 feet Plant growing surface area (see 2nd picture) was way too small to consume the fish excrement with it's 4 times per day 20 minute watering schedule. So it was clear to me we were using at most 20% of the fish fertilizer and discarding the rest.
This got me thinking, if we did use all the fish excrements, would that eliminate the need of a filter system which was the cause of most of the maintenance of the system.
I pondered on all this for some time, looked at some youtube videos of other systems for ideas as my goal was to find a way to eliminate the filter system and use only the plant beds as filter. So there was going to be some drastic changes to the system which I'll explain in part 4.
Thanks for you interest
Luc
This is part 4 of the hydroponic fish tank expansion.
Sorry for taking so much time to write about this past experience and experiments. Writing is not one of my good skills with my 2 finger typing and Dyslexia, makes it quite the chore to say the least. So I need to spread it over some time to get it done.
Now you know why I've always made videos, where in one minute I can share what it would take me 3 hours to write.
So back to the Aquaponic expansion. The idea was to use all the fish fertilizer and to filter the water at the same time so we could eliminate the external filter altogether. So the way I approached it was to build separate planting beds as I knew we could feed much more plants if we used what the filter was wasting.
I decided that these new planting beds would not use the normal Aquaponic ceramic beads (pic 1) used previously. I wanted to make my own multilayer filter which would mimic more what we find in nature. Most everyone knows sand makes a great filter. So that's part of what I used.
I found some strong fiberglass bins (pic 2) that were 2 feet x 3 feet and drilled two 3/4 inch drain holes in each bottom and epoxied a short piece of 1 inch pvc pipe to keep the drain water path straight. I built some wood stands (pic 3) to support the bins leveled. I placed a section of 1/4 inch wire mesh (pic 4) to cover the bin bottom holes so the 1 inch thick layer of naturally washed river pebbles (pic 5 and 6) would not fall in the drain holes. The pebbles are used to trap the 2 inches thick layer of sand that goes over top of the stone which will be used for filtration. I then placed a heavy duty landscape fabric over top of the sand layer and taped the edges of the fabric to the walls of the bins. I did this because I didn't want the earth worms (to be introduce to the soil layer) to work their way in the sand layer which would change the filtration characteristics over time. I wanted them to stay in the natural organic soil layer which was the coarse filter part of the bin and filled the top part (about 6 inches thick) of the bin where the plants would be growing. I also didn't want the plant root system to penetrate the sand filter layer for the same reasons.
There are many reasons I introduced the earth worms to the natural soil. From the research I did, it was clear that much of the fish excrement could not be consumed directly by plants. So it became very clear (to me) if I wanted to keep the natural earth scrubbed, mixed and cleaned the earth worm would maybe be an important part for the complete fish excrement to be consumed to keep the soil healthy and clean. In exchange the worm excrement (aka earth) may be a more complete diet for the plants and mimic what naturally happens in nature. So a kind of Eco system. Of coarse this was all experimental and I had no idea if it would work in the real world.
The other idea I had was to irrigate the planter bins by using 2 inch pvc pipe cut open and install them on each sides of the bins (pic 7) so to have full access of the planting surface and to easily clean the ducts since this was the other main problem with closed pipe which eventually block themselves with fish gook. Having opened U shaped pipes one could easily run a paint brush in them to quickly scrub the duct walls and the drilled openings "pic 8" which have 4 holes per bin, one on each corner of the bin to equally distribute the water but also work its way through the long path of the sand for best filtration and exit out the center drain holes. The water ducts were precisely tuned (drilled hole openings) so to evenly distribute the incoming pumped water. The position of the ducts and drain holes is part of the design to keep most of the water away from the plants not to flood them, it mostly rushes through the earth on the bin edges to the bottom sand for filtration. A lot of thought has been put into this and not just taken from someone or somewhere on the net. Good chances the system is unique as most every part of it was my own ideas to solve the previous system issues. That's the way I am, I see a problem and the gears start working to solve it. Prior to this I had no Aquaponic system experience or knowledge before volunteering at this place. I'm not saying I have knowledge in this field because that would be a lie, I'm just sharing what I've come up with while there. This system needs more time and testing which I did not do as I left a few days after I completed it and I no longer can do it as it's in a different part of the world then my home town of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.
Next post I'll talk about the pump system and show pics of the result of growth.
Stay tuned for more
Luc
I liked the logic of your filter system problems...remove the filter system lol
The worms don't need to be powered either, on their sort of sushi diet.
I've got the 'Mini-1' finished and ready for the apple trees, if they germinate. 6 seeds are in a pot on the windowsill at the moment, The idea was daft in a way, in that I could have simply picked something from the back garden, like grass for example ! But, the apple had been in a bag and had become wrinkled. Was throwing it out when the idea struck to try and grow the seeds.
Tomatoes would have been a much better idea perhaps, as they germinate fast and grow fast, but at 5ft tall would be difficult to manage. Cress ? sure, except that grows in darkness anyway. The trees on the other hand, grow much slower and may allow a better evaluation of indoor growing over winter. They can also be planted outdoors next spring.
The Mini-1 is the circuit above, 15x LED's, 63mA draw, pulsed via blocking oscillator at 5kHz.
Right now there is an offer in our Walmart for USB fans at $1.16
They have a swan neck fitting that is superb for this, allowing the height and angle to be adjusted readily of the LED's.
If a plant grows higher, another swan neck can go on top (glue, clamp attached etc) to increase the height. And, another panel can be fitted to the side of the first, to extend the light output and number of LED's, without the whole lot falling sideways.
This stands at 8" (120mm tall) with swan neck in a mid height position.
Update and forehead slap from over here.
Deciding that the apple tree seeds were unlikely to sprout on the windowsill, I moved the tray into the bedroom and set the light system going.
Now, several days later, i've realised that not all the weeds and such in the tray are weeds and such !
Over on the right, having been growing for a couple of weeks by now, is an apple tree sapling.
Talk about 'not seeing the wood for the trees' huh
Images online seem to correlate this sapling to an apple tree ???
Now on their 3rd day, the weeds and the apple tree are motoring along fine. This is the pulsed system, so is very much on test.
A revised LED cluster is being built. As can be seen in the pics, the original appears to throw out quite the prominent amount of blue light...which of course may be beneficial, but i'd like a better red balance.
As such, this new one has 4 white LEDs at the corners, 4 blue LEDs inside those and 10 red LED's between and within those.
A week onward from the start of this pulsed LED trial and the results are nothing short of phenomenal, in my opinion.
Check out the size of the tree !
That leaf on the right is nearly touching the LED's. It grows in phases by the looks of it, raising the leaves, then dropping them to near level again. The drop seems to happen after watering. 27MHz has been used a couple of times, but not daily.
A couple of the weeds started to grow a bit too well and fell over (lol). It's difficult to tell, but one that is at the front of the pic has now started to regrow back upwards. Those will be removed in any case...but an interesting aside, is that the one on the very left, furthest from any light has simply stayed just as it was, paused.
The room gets no natural light at all. We have JM brand insulation over the window, chiefly for winter, but also very useful in this test scenario. Again, no chemicals at all, soil is out of the backyard, rainwater for the watering.
Looking good slider!...thanks for the updates
Luc
Thanks Luc :)
Must just mention that 'Pseudo Nym' over on YouTube commented, on an unrelated video, with some good points.
He mentioned the need for controls of different methods, just reds, just blues etc and to use the 27MHz consistently. I will be trying some varying methods, but the aim has simply been to try out the pulsing with the much lower power usage...there being plants here that will need to be kept going over winter as it approaches. Even got 3 cactus plants growing now and no way would they survive.
As to the 27Mhz - a solar powered version was tried, same circuit but always running during daylight and was sat in the middle of some outdoor plants. They grew away from the circuit over a month or so, not liking the constant output. So it seems that a couple of times per week is just fine...they can be over treated as well as under treated.
Quick update.
All weeds removed and the 2nd bank of LED's is now in operation, on the same USB input supply.
It uses 70mA, so 63+70 = 133mA, still 1/3rd of the power usage of the original DC system of last winter.
Easy to plug in a USB splitter lead and there's no drop in output when doing so, which was good to see.
Some interesting observations.
This apple tree likes blue better than red. Or blue/white better than red. On this new board, there is a variable pot, to adjust the balance of the reds against the blues and whites. The additional board has been running for the last couple of days and slowly, the tree has moved over to the original bank set of LEDs. By last night, the tree was definitely right over toward that bank, all leaves pointing over to it. So, I turned up the blue/white mix, which lowers the red output and by this morning, a great looking return to a balanced foliage has been seen.
Pic below of how it looks now.
Looking good 8) Slider!
I like the pot idea to balance between colors.
Thanks for sharing
Luc
Works very well Luc :)
Reds normally 'take over' any LED matrix as you know, so always need to be balanced for other colours. This way is convenient and simple. Just have to keep the LEDs paralleled with their same colour wherever they are on the PCB.