comments on this video of Tariel Kapanadze self runner?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQh7l1MIWuY&feature=related
I'm not sure what to make of this. So far after watching this and the other video with the radiator, I am still not convinced there is anything unusual going on. With more build details it might be possible to offer some commentary, but as usual, these are poorly done videos. This one in particular could be running off a charged capacitor, and there is not enough time in the video to convince me that it is a true self-runner.
Also, no one, including JLN has performed any proper input vs. output power measurements, and until that time, this is simply a curiosity imho.
.99
Comments?
Yea - what .99 said. ;)
From my optimistic side:
A three transistor ring oscillator, sequentially firing separate outer windings having a peristaltic pump effect upon the ground wire in the center. This creates a potential gradient from the ground point to the point where wires branch off the ground wire, after going through the coils.
The latter wires are connections to two windings under the sequential windings and the output from the spark gap. These last two windings would be considered HV primary to the last coil (secondary). The last coil (secondary) converts the HV (spark gap voltage) to 220V AC with a large DC offset.
The AC component is enough to provide power to the NST, through capacitive coupling.
The NST has an internal electrostatic shield. This must be connected to the same ground wire before it enters the pump coils.
I don't like the presentation, the video cuts, the power supply that shows full scale whether it puts out 20 or 12 volts or the presenter's attitude.
Even my optimistic side thinks another source of power will be found on his bench. (I believe our Russian counterparts have already decided this.)
Oh well, comments were requested :)
I support and agree with Poynt's view on this device. The latest efficiency figures from Naudain show 96%. Since the device is one large series loop (on the secondary) with an attempt to impedance match the multitude of series connected lamps to the line, it seems reasonable that there will be some loss in the MOT, the spark gap, and a little in the path through the earth.
As far as the Russian video, I'm always a little skeptical of a hodgepodge of wires, no full camera view, and the "trust me it's real" attitude of such presenters.
A better build, showings all devices mounted to a piece of plexiglass, with no hidden wires, full camera views etc. would be a bit more convincing.
The idea of a collector wire running through the center of the coil is a bit reminiscent of SM's work. Whether this central "collector" has any contribution to efficiency is to be determined. The test should be run with the "collector" both inside and outside the main coil to determine this.
Also a DPDT switch to remove the earth grounds and replace them with a straight conductor would also be telling.
Wavewatchers "peristaltic pump" comment seems to align with SM's "squeezing the hose" analogy.
SM said both "lifting and squeezing" if I remember correctly.
the best source of information is here http://www.001-lab.com/001lab/index.php?PHPSESSID=2fd49765ae4ce8e7488032789f6a961c&topic=4.0
The first post includes the two patents.
I was in Turkey last year for a meeting with the inventor of the large scale device - not Tariel but the other person on the patent, Metin Turk. We met at Urgr Yalciner's (the patent attourney) office in Ankra. As far as we can tell this apears real. You wont find anything on Metin Turk or current developments on the web - and it's uncertain where Tariel got the idea/information to make the first device.
EM -
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.001-lab.com%2F001lab%2Findex.php%3FPHPSESSID%3D2fd49765ae4ce8e7488032789f6a961c%26topic%3D4.0&sl=ru&tl=en
I just use chrome browser to view forein sites like the russian energy forum --
http://www.001-lab.com/001lab/index.php?PHPSESSID=2fd49765ae4ce8e7488032789f6a961c&topic=4.0
Chrome will automatically offer you to do an english translation -- it's good enough to follow whats on the forum
I think Kapanadze's device is real and I've been reading over some of the "explanations" of how it might work and they are absolutely hilarious.
The key elements appear o be the pulse circuit with the 5 flybacks and the ground connection.
There are.. were? maps of the united states that defined where the earths surface was charged positive or negative.
These maps were originally developed to locate sources of naturally radioactive mineral deposits - arms race era
The maps were a product of Teslas work on natural radioactivity theory.
He thought that areas of earth that were naturally resistant to the absorption and conduction of aether from space would be found to be sources of radioactive material.
The aether bunching and compressing in these locations over billions of years producing exotic and dense radioactive materials.
Maybe you could drive two copper rods connect them with a length of wire and a capacitor in series and measure the capacitance value with a meter as you relocated on of the rods a number of times.
I will see if i can find the maps. I know the old black and white ones were not in the public but I saw one not too long ago in color and i think it was off of a geos bird.. you may look in http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/index.html . I found them once by accident looking at one of the geos brids who had a big chunk of 250.5mhz dedicated to it but it was not transmitting .. Im guessing it was mapping Schumann resonance
Way to many unknowns to replicate Kapanadze.
The Tariel Kapanadze work is very similar to the work of Frank Prentice a long time ago, before there were high tension lines crisscrossing the earth.
The system employs two grounds, a step up transformer, a spark gap and some tuning capacitors. Tariel may have figured out a method to combine the receiver with the transmitter.
I watched the clip. The ground connection was pretty poor! He should have clamped a vice-grip on top of the wire.
It was very much a formula clip that I think we have all seen before. The wish list would be a coherent demonstration of power in vs. power out. Then, since it's a pulse circuit, show the schematic and construct a timing diagram based on your scope waveform measurements. Show where in the timing diagram there is an "extra energy" pulse that is the source of the over unity.
Not likely to happen.
MileHigh
I'm not going to worry about it until we cannot ask 'what is power input?'. Why? Because it would already have been proven that power input was zero. Gonna be a long wait :D
What bothers me about this person is he proclaims LC resonance has little to do with operation. I'm sure this is true. Then he talks about ferromagnetic resonance being used. I believe this is bogus.
Any charge pumping will be capacitive. I have no doubt many of the coils must be bare metal(if it works at all), at least bare between coil elements. Outer tape wrap would be fine.
Then there is the single ground point..... What good is this? If this device redirects Telluric current then, two points would be needed. If pumping static charge from our huge common capacitor then, same thing.
I must disagree with G about some of the theories being hilarious. I think all of them are, including mine ;D
>>Edit:
Here is another one.... Conversion of static charge (Earth's surface - one side of THE big capacitor) to radiated energy(Spark) to allow a short lived but repeated connection between THE capacitor's plates(Earth's surface & atmospheric boundary layers).
Could explain one ground connection, battery start-up then removal, cable in the middle of the coil, maybe some other things
DONE!
Smoke'em if you got'em :D
The description of the device says that there is a connection to plumbing AND a radiator beried in the ground - this is "two" ground connections. My initial thoughts that this device could be "real" were based on the schematic by Frolov which shows the two ground connections.
A large end connection like this on a transmission line will not reflect a pulse, but the change induced by the pulse IS felt between the ground connections. Kind of keeps building up to some degree.
By the way, just because it is called a "ground" or "in the ground" does not mean that it is "ground zero". One side is compressed and the other rarefacted, and the earth is the perfect conductor for this.
I agree that LC is not used at all, but his talk of ferromagnetic resonance makes me think that he either does not know how it really works, implying that someone provided the necessary information, or that he does not wish to divulge how it works. If the latter, then he may have still been given the info and promised not to divulge the source.
In any event, if he s using two grounds, then it probably works as claimed.
For further details, see the old article from the later 1800's where researchers used Rohmkorff coils connected to metal tables and plumbing - this was popular back in those days. Also, take a good look at the work or Frank Prentice posted by ION, above, and traveling waves induced by lightning. Take these works of old and add a transformer for conversion. Bada Bing! Bada Boom!
This sort of thing is great for powering fixed articles such as buildings. It is not easily portable and it isn't rocket science so patenting it is rather obtuse.
Radiant Energy is not involved either, so all of the "so called explanations" of RE from the earth are BS!
Pass the output of a small Tesla coil through and a transformer - Bada Bing! - how in the Hell can that stuff be inductive? All currents are, so everyone can cut the mystical bullshit.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.07.11, 02:43:50
- how in the Hell can that stuff be inductive? All currents are, so everyone can cut the mystical bullshit.
Sorry G. Guess I should have quoted Tesla word for word instead of offering my description of Tesla's words.
Yes, all currents can induce other currents. The problem is that magnetic fields do not add energy.
So, for those thinking this device might work.....
How?
BTW: The 'closed loop antenna', from the Prentice document, is now called a 'capacity hat'. Granted, a big one but still the same. It would be great for coupling to a transmission line being used only for the line capacitance.
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2010.07.11, 03:41:44
Sorry G. Guess I should have quoted Tesla word for word instead of offering my description of Tesla's words.
Yes, all currents can induce other currents. The problem is that magnetic fields do not add energy.
So, for those thinking this device might work.....
How?
BTW: The 'closed loop antenna', from the Prentice document, is now called a 'capacity hat'. Granted, a big one but still the same. It would be great for coupling to a transmission line being used only for the line capacitance.
("batteries" in a "replica" are irrelevant)
Correct, magnetic fields do not add energy and the magnetic field is not the field to focus our attention on. The electric field is and they do sum algebraically. (All currents have an associated magnetic field - all of them - no exceptions.)
How does it work? Pulse a stack of flybacks into an open line with large surface terminations buried in the ground and run this open line through a transformer. If the end terminations are too small, then it will reflect and the advantage is lost.
EDIT: The displacement current goes round and round and builds up to some degree. Eric Dollard gives a very nice explanation of this in his book on Tesla Transformers. This is not radiant energy at all and should not be confused with that.
Does he claim that the large transformer does not get as hot as it should get?
[The more I look into this device, the more it looks like someone told him how to do this.] Does Kapanadze or Metin Turk know anyone in Russia?
Quote
Tesla
Yes [both]. To be more explicit, I take a very large self-inductance and a comparatively small capacity, which I have constructed in a certain way so that the electricity cannot leak out. I thus obtain a low frequency; but, as you know, the electromagnetic radiation is proportionate to the square root of the capacity divided by the self-induction. I do not permit the energy to go out; I accumulate in that circuit a tremendous energy. When the high potential is attained, if I want to give off electromagnetic waves, I do so, but I prefer to reduce those waves in quantity and pass a current into the earth, because electromagnetic wave energy is not recoverable while that [earth] current is entirely recoverable, being the energy stored in an elastic system.
Counsel
What elastic system do you refer to?
Tesla
I mean this: If you pass a current into a circuit with large self-induction, and no radiation takes place, and you have a low resistance, there is no possibility of this energy getting out into space; therefore, the impressed impulses accumulate.
Counsel
Let's see if I understand this correctly. If you have radiation or electromagnetic waves going from your system, the energy is wasted?
Tesla
Absolutely wasted. From my circuit you can get either electromagnetic waves, 90 percent of electromagnetic waves if you like, and 10 percent in the current energy that passes through the earth. Or, you can reverse the process and get 10 percent of the energy in electromagnetic waves and 90 percent in energy of the current that passes through the earth.
It is just like this: I have invented a knife. The knife can cut with the sharp edge. I tell the man who applies my invention, you must cut with the sharp edge. I know perfectly well you can cut butter with the blunt edge, but my knife is not intended for this. You must not make the antenna give off 90 percent in electromagnetic and 10 percent in current waves, because the electromagnetic waves are lost by the time you are a few arcs around the planet, while the current travels to the uttermost distance of the globe and can be recovered.
This view, by the way, is now confirmed. Note, for instance, the mathematical treatise of Sommerfeld,- who shows that my theory is correct, that I was right in my explanations of the phenomena, and that the profession was completely misled. This is the reason why these followers of mine in high frequency currents have made a mistake. They wanted to make high frequency alternators of 200,000 cycles with the idea that they would produce electromagnetic waves, 90 percent in electromagnetic waves and the rest in current energy. I only used low alternations, and I produced 90 percent in current energy and only 10 percent in electromagnetic waves, which are wasted, and that is why I got my results. . . .
You see, the apparatus which I have devised was an apparatus enabling one to produce tremendous differences of potential and currents in an antenna circuit. These requirements must be fulfilled, whether you transmit by currents of conduction, or whether you transmit by electromagnetic waves. You want high potential currents, you want a great amount of vibratory energy; but you can graduate this vibratory energy. By proper design and choice of wave lengths, you can arrange it so that you get, for instance, 5 percent in these electromagnetic waves and 95 percent in the current that goes through the earth. That is what I am doing. Or you can get, as these radio men, 95 percent in the energy of electromagnetic waves and only 5 percent in the energy of the current. . . . The apparatus is suitable for one or the other method. I am not producing radiation with my system; I am suppressing electromagnetic waves. . . . In my system, you should free yourself of the idea that there is radiation, that the energy is radiated. It is not radiated; it is conserved. . . .
hmmm...
Looks like a duck...
Walks like a duck...
Everyone will see what they want in that build.
If I had a guess, it would be this.
Forget positive or negative, ground or no ground, just think polarity.
The grounded wires go to the center wires inside the cylinder. This would bring a permanent north polarity inside the outer coil. That's why you have more ground wires in the center to concentrate the north field. All around the outside and inside of the cylinder, there is the already present south field from the Earths magnetic field that is strong enough to turn a compass needle.
Now if the center north field is then pulsed on/off, the north polarity will then pulse inside the coil and saturate the outer coil with the north field. Each on pulse saturates the area with a north field. Each off pulse collapses the north field and lets the omnipresent south field re-saturate that same area. The movement of the north field on, then north field off with south field taking back the space is what creates the moving fields over the outer coil.
The energy required would be only to energize the NPN mosfet gate that will then pulse the drain/source through which is the ground wire on both ends. The outer coil catches the pulsing fields and translate these into electrical current that is stored in the capacitor bank. Once there is enough energy in the capacitor bank the feed source is removed and the cap bank now has enough energy to drive the mosfet.
If there are two mosfets, then each one goes on each side of the center grounded bundle to provide a total cut off of the north field from both sides of the bundle.
Hmmmm. That would be a very easy thing to test in any type of build.
All you really need is a pulsing north field near any type of coil and the south field will be there to meet any re-saturation of the same space. This eliminates any LENZ law because it only applies to coils that are driven from both polarities concentrated in the same coils like in a transformer, the primary north and south are on the same primary side and LENZ would be in the middle between the primary and the secondary. Whereas in the above condition the primary is comprised of a center north and the Earths south working together on the outer coil that is then the secondary.
But in this build there are two secondaries. The outer coil with many turns is one and the outer thicker coil with few turns is another. Both are being fed by the same internal north and outer south movements except that the coil of many turns is producing voltage and the coil of few thicker turns in producing amperage.
Maybe I am not saying this in the right way but I hope you guys get the general idea.
Actually I had been talking about this type of pulsing for a while then veered off into other tests when I did some tests in this direction that blew my HP2145B pulse generator.
Wattsup:
I am not going to discuss your theory about the apparatus, but instead want to comment on you discussion about the magnetic north and south fields.
"North" and "South" are naming conventions applied to magnetic fields based on accepted conventions for the directions of the magnetic lines of force.
So if you have a strong bar magnet and aim the north end directly at a face-on coil, we don't really say that the coil has become "all north." It's more like the coil itself now has a "north" end and a "south" end.
The thing to remember is that magnetic lines of force are vectors that extend out to infinity for everything. The magnetic lines of force vectors from two different sources of magnetic field will add together. All magnetic lines of force (vectors) travel in closed loops, and when you add up all of the different magnetic force vector sources from multiple sources of magnetic fields then the resultant magnetic force vectors still travel in closed loops.
So if you are in space with a bar magnet in your hand the magnetic field extends out to infinity from the bar magnet. Of course the magnetic field from the earth also extends out into infinity.
So when you are on the surface of the earth holding a bar magnet in your hand, the vectors from the two magnetic sources add together. The earth's magnetic field on the surface of the earth is horizontal and static and running in a North-South direction. The influence of the bar magnet causes a slight perturbation in the earth's magnetic field as viewed from far away from the bar magnet. Closer to the bar magnet, the bar magnet's field dominates the earth's magnetic field. This creates what is known as a "magnetic bubble" in the overall magnetic field. The size and shape of the bubble is dependent on the strength of the bar magnet, and its orientation with respect to the earth's magnetic field.
Almost anything you play with that generates a magnetic field creates a magnetic bubble. A coil with current flowing through it creates a magnetic bubble.
Finally, the truth is we don't care about any of this. The earth's magnetic field, even though it is there in our laboratory, is static and unchanging. A static magnetic field is not interesting because all of the action that we are interested in comes from changing magnetic fields with respect to time. Of course you could move a loop of wire in the earth's static magnetic field and get induced EMF in the wire because of the changing magnetic flux going through the loop, but that is not practical because the magnetic field strength is so low and you need an external source of mechanical energy to do this.
Anyway, that's my mini treatise for you. If you "get it" and go back and read your posting you might reconsider some of what you said.
MileHigh
Is the coil picture that I posted the output coil of the device? If so, does it have a core or is it an aircore coil?
(My connection is too slow for videos.)
The receiver for Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter is also air-core.
I think I'll reinvent the "wheel", get a patent on it, and try to make a few bucks.
Quote from: EMdevices on 2010.07.07, 04:45:12
Mark,
I'm so glad you can vouch for these devices and have seen them, I'm getting very intrigued, I might start to replicate something soon.
It's too bad the website you posted is in Russian. Anybody speak Russian and can translate for us?
It would be nice to have an exact schematic and more details....
EM
marksnoswell said:
the best source of information is here http://www.001-lab.com/001lab/index.php?PHPSESSID=2fd49765ae4ce8e7488032789f6a961c&topic=4.0
You're both right. I copied off about 50 diagrams from that thread. It's up to 82 pgs. as of this post. When those tinkerers invent circuits, they come up with things I never knew could exist. Lots of information, though. There are translation sites available, but knowing how to read Cyrillic Russian is obviously the easiest way to go.
--Lee
EM,
I just watched some of the videos, my first time.
The device in the can appears to me to be a transformer. TK refers to it and the battery as 'energy accumulators'. Even though the canned device looks like a transformer, I believe it is a line voltage capacitor.
Note: The load bulbs weren't in series. Output wasn't right at 220V but ranged wildly, no apparent regulation.
He seems to be quite a Tesla fan, and speaks at least two languages. I'm impressed.
can looks liek a capacitor might be inside
green box thing looks like some sort or equipment - maybe it is a signal generator
I'm watching the long (over an hour) video now.
Looks like transistors on top of the green box - siting on a heatsink
Blue-green equipment item - still can't tell but I'm leaning towards signal generator
He opens the "can" - see attached:
EDIT:
Blue-green piece of equipement looks like a battery charger not signal gen
@Grumpy
Light blueish box with black handle on top - преобразователь - transformer/inverter
Dark tall greenish box (the on in your posted pic) - подаватель - power supply/battery
I can understand more or less russian language so I just took russian words out of his video and here is translation.
I am surprised noone has added english subtitles to his video - at least where he speaks russian.. quite funny story about his local energy company rejecting his invention.
Minde
Quote from: minde4000 on 2010.07.13, 16:33:20
@Grumpy
Light blueish box with black handle on top - преобразователь - transformer/inverter
Dark tall greenish box (the on in your posted pic) - подаватель - power supply/battery
I can understand more or less russian language so I just took russian words out of his video and here is translation.
I am surprised noone has added english subtitles to his video - at least where he speaks russian.. quite funny story about his local energy company rejecting his invention.
Minde
Ah! an inverter.
What does he say about the object in the can with holes in the lid?
Dark tall greenish box (the on in your posted pic) - подаватель - power supply/battery
Minde
what is the item in the tall square metal can with the lid? It looks like a transformer and some other things inside the can.
Ah-ha! I see it now. I take back all comments and speculations.
I think the box with the transistor/heat-sinks & fan is a home-brew inverter or the inside of a scavenged inverter.
The can with the holes could actually be a battery. I remember seeing 12V zinc-carbon batteries like that in the military 30 years ago. They made a horrible mess when they overheated. I don't recall any with fiberglass sheathed wires. That type of lead is normally found on transformers but no longer than needed to make connections inside the can.
Still all speculation for me.
Can't wait.
I've been suspecting that heavy, loose wound outer coil is actually the core and made from steel rod.
It also looks like it has no connection on one end.
Gathering the stuff up and clearing a bench. I think I have everything, so should not take that long.
Hey WW
Look at the large transistors on the black heatsink on top of the green box - with a fan. $100 US says TK is not using a little tv flyback but something larger like a MOT.
Also, look at the spark. It's not purple and thin. The spark is fat and orange and not hot or the gap would burn up. Gap is also kinda short. Gap isn't cracking like thunder either. What does that tell you?
Lights did not even flicker or dim when he popped the battery off. Moving stuff around and still lit. Oh yeah! Notice there is not indication of white full spectrum light from the bulbs.
Also, notice that touching the blue coil thing does not knock the crap out of anyone and that the loopback method incorporates isolation.
Agreed. The blue wire is maybe... 600v wire so he could be dumping 2100v through it without killing anyone..
So you are thinking MOT + inverter driver
MOT's output ( at 50 cps ) is yellow / white flame like
The blue wire could be high voltage silicone jacket too - this would put it in the kv range easily. The wire coming out of the green box is hv cable. Now, why would he use this sort of wire and what advantage does this give you over a wire like magnet wire?
Anyway, it looks pretty obvious that he is using some sort of converter circuit to convert DC input from the battery or the thing in the tin can to HV out of the green box.
I would think that the world renowned technical experts at Chava could easily figure this device out and finally have something to attract that funding that is always around the corner - NOT! They have many many peope under contract, but none of them has anything. There is a group in Sweden that actually has "money" and has attracted the attention of researchers with working devices.
Mark stated in an email (I must still be in some email group that he broadcast propaganda to) a few months ago that they were discovering new physics but still no OU - ROFLMAO!!! There is no "new physics", only reinterpretation of the old physics!
Anyway, I think the TK device is real and there for the taking if you just build the damn thing.
I'll be glad to build it. Anyone have a schematic and BOM?
Maybe a reasonable sounding theory of operation?
Maybe only the formulas? I can grok it.
If I get some usable info I'll post details of the work, good or bad. I doubt it is related to stuff I've done in the past.
There are some key elements that I am not about to post publicly until it is completed, but I can send them to you one way or another.
The Chava-ites can try to figure it out themselves with their PhD's and generous funding that is always just around the corner...LOL!
One thing has been bothering me - in kapanadze video when @53:15 guy points out into tesla paper - is he pointing at Linde's Condenser ?
If that condenser works with gas, could principle be adopted to electronics? High pressure gas = high voltage and etc.....
Just an idea... because he kind of literally points out Linde's Condenser ...
Minde
Just wondering if there are any updates to the authenticity of this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbkvXoDfk7g) that GK just linked to.
It has English subtitles.
I suppose the guy has not provided a schematic? One guy that commented on youtube said the video was actually about two years old, and was proved fake. Hartman archived these two schematics supposedly from JLN: I wonder how close they are?
.99
And here is another honest attempt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ObgydLmVBw&feature=related
The coil is very similar in configuration to Otto's wire mobius test.
Which all point to cancelling the flux.
Is the fellow in the video associated with Tariel Kapanadze in any way?
If not, how did he replicate the device when there is virtually no information available on it?
.99
Poynt:
I watched a dozen of MrAnguswangus's clips including his four Kapanadze clips. He is a nice guy but he is just a garage tinkerer. His seems to have a basic knowledge of electronics. I don't think there is any chance that he is associated with Kapanadze.
He doesn't get anywhere and gives up on the project.
I found a good J.L. Naudin Kapanadze schematic:
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9862/kapagendevice.gif
Notice how the special PVC HV "transformer" is not even acting as a transformer? The primary and secondary are in the same current loop.
MileHigh
The Kapagan diagram is not the same as Kapanadze's and never worked as far as I know. They got a bulb to light and thought they had replicated Kapanadze's device.
In the Kapanadze coil, it looks like the thick load wire goes through only once.
The best diagram for the Kapanadze Coil that I have found is this Hungarian one nad it seems to be incomplete:
Grumpy:
Thanks for clarifying that there are two different versions.
If you assume that the thick wire (i.e. the 6-turn wire for the low voltage output) goes to the bulb load and forms it's own current loop, then we can assume that the PVC HV transformer is acting like a legitimate step-down transformer.
The scenario that I outlined on the Magnacoaster thread still applies. If the spark-gap starts to conduct when the high-voltage sine wave from the neon sign transformer is still on the upswing, then the mains power is ultimately being coupled through to the light bulb load.
I just watched a new German TV clip, where Kapanadze allegedly kick-starts the setup with a 9-volt battery and then it self-runs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gErefbcTz-U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gErefbcTz-U)
It's very easy to fake this stuff and TV journalists are almost never technical. They are always looking for interesting and different human interest stories and Kapanadze fits the bill.
MileHigh
Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.10.13, 22:58:45
Poynt:
I watched a dozen of MrAnguswangus's clips including his four Kapanadze clips. He is a nice guy but he is just a garage tinkerer. His seems to have a basic knowledge of electronics. I don't think there is any chance that he is associated with Kapanadze.
He doesn't get anywhere and gives up on the project.
I found a good J.L. Naudin Kapanadze schematic:
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9862/kapagendevice.gif
Notice how the special PVC HV "transformer" is not even acting as a transformer? The primary and secondary are in the same current loop.
MileHigh
MH,
I don't think "MrAnguswangus" is the guy that did the video I and GK linked to.
.99
Oops, sorry I suppose you are talking about the one with the English subtitles. No clue if this person is associated with Tariel Kapanadze.
Never mind!
Here are the diagrams from Kapanadze's two patent applications:
It's interesting to note that neither one shows a conductor going through the centre of the coil/transformer.
Perhaps that part was picked up from seeing the videos?
.99
Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.10.13, 23:29:19
Grumpy:
Thanks for clarifying that there are two different versions.
If you assume that the thick wire (i.e. the 6-turn wire for the low voltage output) goes to the bulb load and forms it's own current loop, then we can assume that the PVC HV transformer is acting like a legitimate step-down transformer.
The scenario that I outlined on the Magnacoaster thread still applies. If the spark-gap starts to conduct when the high-voltage sine wave from the neon sign transformer is still on the upswing, then the mains power is ultimately being coupled through to the light bulb load.
I just watched a new German TV clip, where Kapanadze allegedly kick-starts the setup with a 9-volt battery and then it self-runs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gErefbcTz-U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gErefbcTz-U)
It's very easy to fake this stuff and TV journalists are almost never technical. They are always looking for interesting and different human interest stories and Kapanadze fits the bill.
MileHigh
I never could figure out his wiring from the video (Kapanadze's), but if it really works, I would bet that it works similar to Tesla's Magnifier and I would start there.
Grumpy:
Yes I looked up the Tesla Magnifier. It's basically a regular Tesla coil setup feeding a separate LC resonator. So if you drive the main Tesla coil at the right frequency for the resonator, the resonator will be able to store (i.e.; resonate) that energy to higher and higher energy levels and the voltages can get into the millions of volts. To be a sour-puss there is no free energy in sight there!
I tried to find an amazing Tesla concert clip with multiple coils playing an interesting song but failed.
The consolation prize is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zNefMozOz4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zNefMozOz4)
Note that ForaTV is really worth checking out. It is an excellent brain food site.
MileHigh
Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.10.14, 01:07:17
Grumpy:
Yes I looked up the Tesla Magnifier. It's basically a regular Tesla coil setup feeding a separate LC resonator. So if you drive the main Tesla coil at the right frequency for the resonator, the resonator will be able to store (i.e.; resonate) that energy to higher and higher energy levels and the voltages can get into the millions of volts. To be a sour-puss there is no free energy in sight there!
I tried to find an amazing Tesla concert clip with multiple coils playing an interesting song but failed.
The consolation prize is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zNefMozOz4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zNefMozOz4)
Note that ForaTV is really worth checking out. It is an excellent brain food site.
MileHigh
Oh yeah of little faith.
An interesting demonstration that Tesla performed consisted of placing a sheet of aluminum foil on the end of a stick and then holding the stick while placing the foil on the end of it near the magnifier coil.
The aluminum foil would vaporize with a sound like that of a cannon shot.
Any ideas on how or why this occurred? I could guess that the foil would get hot or arc or crackle but not vaporize.
Reading up on the magnifier, you will find that the magnifier coil is never placed near anything that it can couple to inductively.
You can argue that displacement current and polarization current do not exist, but I already know that Roentgen proved that they do exist and no one has disproved his experiments to date.
So, I'd venture a guess that there is one hell of a displacement current outside Tesla's magnifier coil and all currents have an associated magnetic field - even virtual ones. This current could be caused by the Dirac Sea (or aether if you like that term) moving across the coil, inducing emf in addition to that supplied by the source impulses, magnifiying the total EMF. Placing another conductor within this field will induce current into it as well.
If you were to try to build a generator based on these principles, you start with a coil that is terminated with a plate at each end. Then you have to find a way to impact excite this coil and get the displacement current. Once you get that down, you have to put a collector around or near the coil to induce current from the displacement current.
MH,
Do praytell...
I heard of 2 bicycle mechanics making a thingy in their garage that flies! Well there goes the planet. Just because they pedal uphill leads them to believe they can cruise around aeronautically.
Then there are these 2 other guys making a chart plotter in their garage! Now they call themselves Hewlet Packard.
And then there are the two Steves that created a micro computer, eh?, in their garage too! The one guy wrote the apple boot rom on HP equipment. Sounds like collusion to me.
And I heard 2 guys walked on the moon! Why 2 guys all the time? So they can put up 'Men at work' sign? A guy working alone could be misunderstood as a 'Lone, crazed gunman'.
Looks like it takes more than 1 man to get things done on this planet.
GK,
All you need is a spilt personality.
We have that covered here. Only problem is, our benches wouldn't fit in the garage anymore.... we had to move them to the basement ;D
Grumpy:
QuoteThe aluminum foil would vaporize with a sound like that of a cannon shot.
Any ideas on how or why this occurred?
I can take a guess but I'm not sure my explanation is correct. Close to the magnifier coil capacitive sphere the voltage gradient in the air would be very very high. Supposing it was 10,000 volts per centimeter, enough to make the air ionize if there was a good reason to do so. The piece of foil is a conductor, which means it wants to be an equipotential, and be at the same voltage all over its surface. This is incompatible with the super high voltage gradient in the air. The air will ionize instantly and conduct current into or out the foil. If you look at a point on the foil/air boundary, the air might be at 400,000 volts and the foil might be at 380,000 volts. So the air molecules instantly ionize on contact with the metal foil, and very high current flows through the foil. It's such an energetic environment that the metal heats up an vaporizes in a flash because of the heat generation due to the very high current.
QuoteYou can argue that displacement current and polarization current do not exist
I never said that. What I said was that if you look at a current loop in a circuit, the displacement current in a capacitor dielectric will be identical to the real current flow on the leads of the capacitor. Since they are identical, you don't really have to think about the displacement current. You made reference once to "accounting for all currents" or something like that, seemingly implying that displacement currents and real currents might be separate effects when they are not.
QuoteSo, I'd venture a guess that there is one hell of a displacement current outside Tesla's magnifier coil
There is going to be a certain amount of displacement current outside of the magnifier coil. That's because in that high-frequency high-voltage environment the stray capacitance effects between the sphere and the walls and the other objects in the room will be greatly magnified. So you can simplify that and say that the Tesla magnifier capacitive sphere is in parallel with a single imaginary capacitor and let's call it the "stray room" capacitance.
Here is the important point: The real current that flows into the capacitive sphere from the resonating coil will be identical to the displacement current that goes into the capacitive sphere plus the displacement current that goes into the stray room capacitance. The source of that current is your power supply. The identical effects would happen at low voltage and low frequency also. Except in that case the stray capacitive effects will be much lower and be imperceptible.
You seem to be implying that with the Tesla amplifier setup you may be somehow "kicking up some extra dust" and just maybe there is some "extra" displacement current due to the Dirac sea or the aether. I understand where you are coming from, there is the hope that something extra could take place. Hence some people want to play with high voltages and spark gaps.
If any of this exists may be speculation on your part or perhaps you read it somewhere. I am not convinced at all. There are places where high voltage is researched, one of them is "Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Québec." They have a 10-story laboratory with a mega Tesla coils and stuff like that. They might not be looking for those alleged effects, but if they found any anomalies they would probably research them.
The only picture that I could find of the lab is midway down this web page:
http://www.protectolite.com/industries/electrical.asp (http://www.protectolite.com/industries/electrical.asp)
MileHigh
Giantkiller:
QuoteI heard of 2 bicycle mechanics making a thingy in their garage that flies! Well there goes the planet. Just because they pedal uphill leads them to believe they can cruise around aeronautically.]I heard of 2 bicycle mechanics making a thingy in their garage that flies! Well there goes the planet. Just because they pedal uphill leads them to believe they can cruise around aeronautically.
I know, this argument goes like this: "Unimaginative scientists would have scoffed at the notion of powered flight in at the start of the 20th century. Look at how closed-minded and wrong they where. You have to keep an open mind."
That's a tired argument that is completely wrong. Certainly the vast majority of the lay population would have thought that a flying machine was impossible, and certainly some scientists would have said the same thing.
However, in the latter part of the 19th century, there were some scientists that were doing serious research into flight. People made gliders big enough to carry a person and they made thousands of test flights and recorded their data. The Wright brothers were fully aware of this and in touch with these researchers. Many scientists were aware that all that you needed was a power source with a good enough power to weight ratio to attach to a glider to create a mechanical flying machine. The Wright brothers knew this too and they followed a serious regimen of research and development and developed their own wind tunnel and did research in countless other areas to develop the first flying machine. They realized that the new gasoline engine technology gave them the power to weight ratio that their calculations demanded. It was a triumph of scientific research and engineering development and testing. Many enlightened scientists were expecting this to happen.
So the moral of the story is that the "flat earth/flying machine/nobody would ever need a computer" business can be turned on its head. It's the science guys that knew the earth was round and you could have airplanes and personal computers.
As far as I am aware, high voltages or high currents or abrupt disruptive changes in voltage or current, or various coil or capacitor or transformer configurations or unusual ways of arranging magnetic or electric fields do not produce excess energy. It would be great if they did and I welcome the effort.
The challenge for the researchers is to bridge the gap between what they think might be happening and what they actually observe in the real world and how that correlates with our current understanding. For example if you build something on the belief that Tom Bearden's theories are true then the measurements, if properly done, should show positive results. At the same time you are aware that many people state that Bearden is a fraud that purchased a worthless PhD from an "online university."
MileHigh
What everyone calls "displacement current" in a capacitor is "polarization current" as nothing is displaced, but the polarization of the molecules changes.
Tesla would stick his head in the same coils as exploded the foil and he was not ionized.
Total current is the sum of all currents.
Grumpy:
From Wikipedia:
QuoteAn example illustrating the need for the displacement current arises in connection with capacitors with no medium between the plates (in free space).
Okay, so displacement current applies to the case where there is no dielectric material.
What about when we have a dielectric material between the plates of the capacitor? I found this link, very technical:
http://web.mit.edu/6.013_book/www/chapter6/6.2.html (http://web.mit.edu/6.013_book/www/chapter6/6.2.html)
QuoteHence, we can think of a rate of charge transport in a material medium as consisting of a current density of unpaired charges Ju and a polarization current density Jp, each obeying its own conservation law. This is also implied by Ampère's law, as now generalized to include the effects of polarization.
My interpretation is that the polarization current is taking place in the capacitor dielectric medium and it is the same as the real current that goes through the wires connected to the capacitor plates.
This might be better:
http://espace.library.uq.edu.au/eserv/UQ:9891/saha-raj-deis-20.pdf (http://espace.library.uq.edu.au/eserv/UQ:9891/saha-raj-deis-20.pdf)
QuotePOLARIZATION AND DEPOLARIZATION CURRENTS
One way,in the time domain,to investigate the polarization process for a dielectric material is to measure polarization and depolarization currents.
If you have a high permittivity dielectric material, you get a higher capacitance. The molecules in the dielectric can be stressed and deformed by the electric field and in effect act like little energy storing springs. Higher capacitance implies higher energy storage and higher levels of AC current can flow through the capacitor. The changing stress on the dielectric material between the capacitor plates because of the changing electric field is called the polarization current. In other words I am agreeing with you and being long-winded about it.
QuoteTotal current is the sum of all currents.
In the real world the real current carrying elements like wires and the displacement current and polarization current carrying elements like capacitors are in series, so the real current equals the displacement current or the polarization current.
Again, I think that you are looking for something special when it is not there. To use the displacement current and the polarization current terms is simply splitting hairs.
If you disagree with me, then please give me an example where you have separate real and displacement or polarization currents in a circuit.
QuoteTesla would stick his head in the same coils as exploded the foil and he was not ionized.
Without any real details I can't really comment. He could also have been doing a Barnum and Bailey routine there. Did you watch that little clip I linked to with the two guys playing with the Tesla coils? They mentioned how one of the famous pictures of him sitting among all of the lightning bolts coming off all of the Tesla coil was faked. They did an exposure for a few seconds and imaged a bunch of lightning bolts, then shut off the Tesla coil and then Tesla sat in the chair for a regular flash exposure. So it was a faked double-exposure.
MileHigh
Just my 2 cents....
Polarization/Depolarization current are the stored then released energy of conventional current applied to a capacitor. I believe this is analogous to applied EMF and counter-EMF for an inductor.
Displacement current would indicate that charge flow 'is' momentum, not linear travel of an electron. This would include the transfer of momentum, something like a traveling mass striking another mass and transferring all momentum to the stricken mass.
I believe this is analogous to back-EMF of an inductor.
If Displacement current is the momentum then it is not part of currently measured amperage.
Of course, this would imply that such a current could not flow, as the result of charging/discharging a vacuum capacitor because a vacuum capacitor has no dielectric.
I know. BEMF and CEMF are the same thing. After all, it is taught this way. Right? :P
If you believe they are the same thing, forget about trying to understand things like displacement current or current momentum. CEMF is always the reverse polarity of the applied EMF. BEMF is always the same polarity of and perpendicular to the applied force.
My two cents.. You know how the economy is :)
Thanks for the interlude from drudgery.
Cheers!
conduction current results from charges in motion in a conductor, such as electrons and positrons
Example: battery connected to a light bulb
polarization current is a broad term that includes displacement current and results from changes in polarization of a dielectric
Example: AC capacitively coupled to a circuit (i.e. cap is in series not parallel)
displacement current results from the actual change in position of a dielectric that is polarized
Examples: The rotating field in a TPU, homopolar generators based on rotating dielectrics, and experments performed by Rowland, Roentgen, Wilson, and Eichenwald with rotating dielectrics.
convection current results from charges in motion in space (i.e. not bound by a conductor)
At any given time in a circuit, one or all may be present and the total current in the circuit is the sum of all forms of current.
Induction allows one current to induce another current or the same type or a different type. For example, depolarization of a capacitor induces conduction current into the circuit it is connected to.
Moving a magnet inside a coil induces conduction current in the coil. Is this an example of displacement current or polarization current? Since the magnet is physically moving, I vote for displacement current. If the field is changing then I vote for polarization current. The magnetic field influences space (aether, Dirac Sea, Zero Point Field, etc.).
This opens up the argument of wether or not a magnet moves the aether along with it or just polarizes another region as it moves.
It may help to look at some interesting articles regarding "displacement current" and Maxwell's original intention, which included an aetheric medium.
Grumpy:
We are going to have to agree to disagree here.
With reference to moving a magnet inside a coil, you are probably aware that Ampere's law says that the magnetic field going through a cross-sectional area gives you a result where the units are current. It's interesting because you induce current in a loop of wire if you move a magnet past it, and the loop itself is the cross-sectional area that the magnetic field is passing through. I am actually very rusty on all of this stuff but the main point is that it all falls together perfectly. Yes, there might be some little nit-picky cases where you can cite unusual effects or whatever, but in the overall scheme of things it all works. You don't need aether or a Dirac sea or some kind of polarization to explain this kind of stuff.
Anyway, I'll stick to my guns and in my opinion displacement and polarization currents can always be traced back to the real conduction currents that they are part and parcel of.
I will bring it round full circle and suggest that if any TPU-type projects are ever undertaken, and assuming that they are relatively simple circuits, the person or persons doing the project should try to make a timing diagram that shows how every voltage and every current responds to the external excitation signal with respect to time. So may wild terms are thrown around when people talk about this stuff. When you nail down the timing diagram and look at it, it should become apparent that the way the TPU-type device is responding fully respects what the "classical" analysis predicts. So all of the talk about special bloch wall configurations, or coils bouncing energy back and forth or sharp gradients making the aether snap back or whatever might all start to sound hollow.
I realize that this is all my opinion and it can be taken or ignored, I am not going to be a builder. Again, in my personal opinion, it's not enough to build something and then just look for over unity. You don't get over unity? Then try changing the number of turns of the main coil? That doesn't work, then try a higher excitation voltage, etc, etc. That's simply not the right way to go. You want to understand how the thing works before you start changing parameters.
QuoteIt may help to look at some interesting articles regarding "displacement current" and Maxwell's original intention, which included an aetheric medium.
Perhaps one day, but not right now because I have other things on my plate. I simply don't believe in any aetheric medium. I believe in the impedance of free space! (Oops, I see that you uploaded some .pdfs. That makes it too easy. I will look later.)
Okay, I am stepping off the soap box and throwing in the towel!
MileHigh
A long time ago, I started reviwing what we are taught about electricity and this led back to the original thoughts and experiments. In short, it is a big mess filled with misinterpretations, deletions, assumptions, and mathematical tricks to make everything look good on paper. I think this is a bunch of BS. Rather than correct so-called laws, we change everything else to keep them valid. Reality is thrown to the wind as long as everyone can sleep at night.
The bottom line though, is that there is a Hell of a lot we don't know or understand.
The aether was actually proven to exist and explored in a lesser-known experiment than the failed M-M experiment. I'll see if I can find it.
EDIT:
http://www.orgonelab.org/miller.htm
and attached pdf
@Grumpy
QuoteA long time ago, I started reviwing what we are taught about electricity and this led back to the original thoughts and experiments. In short, it is a big mess filled with misinterpretations, deletions, assumptions, and mathematical tricks to make everything look good on paper. I think this is a bunch of BS. Rather than correct so-called laws, we change everything else to keep them valid. Reality is thrown to the wind as long as everyone can sleep at night.
The bottom line though, is that there is a Hell of a lot we don't know or understand.
I would agree, It would seem many supposed experts would like us to believe in a watered down laymans understanding of things littered with contradictions and outright errors. I think this nonsense they teach the general population has just about run it's course as it can no longer support its own sheer mass of BS,lol.
Those are some good links ;D
Regards
AC
Grumpy and AC:
It's easy to just say stuff like that. Like they say talk is cheap. You say it's a big mess, or it's littered with contradictions but do you have any specifics?
Have you taken all the math and calculus courses so that you can then move on to electromagnetics and electronics courses? Have you taken courses in electrical network theory and communications, semiconductor physics, control systems, mathematical modeling, numerical analysis?
Have you done the classic derivation in physics to determine the escape velocity from a mass? Have you done the derivations to see what the fields look like for point charges and current loops and infinite lengths of wire? Have you done the derivation to calculate the force between two lengths of current-carrying wire? Have you gone through Maxwell's equations step by step in integral and differential form and then looked at the simplified derivations from them? Have you applied the equations to solve real-world problems? Have you done the integral and differential calculations to determine the circuit behaviour and formulas for the energy stored in a capacitor and an inductor? Have you looked at a circuit and punched in the transforms for all all of the components to work out the equations that map the circuit on the S-plane to show the circuit's poles and zeros? Have you done the transformations that go back and forth between the time domain and the frequency domain? Have you ever worked with complex numbers to model electrical circuits? Have you studied transmission lines and analyzed microwave waveguides with Smith charts? Have you studied semiconductor physics? Have you worked out the solution for how an electron behaves when it is in an infinite potential well?
If you have all of that under your belts then perhaps what you say has some merit. If you don't at least in my book then you guys are reading the "alternative" press and taking it too literally. It would not surprise me if you can cite a few interesting examples that back up your arguments. But what about the "beef" the stuff that I mention in the paragraphs above? I don't want to prejudge you but if you only have some vague familiarity with the stuff mentioned above, and when you look up stuff online and you always avoid the maths, then what does that say?
The entire world runs on the "real thing" and it doesn't run on misinterpretations, deletions, assumptions, contradictions and outright errors. It's the "real thing" that counts. I'll give you some examples of how things can get topsy-turvy. Last year somebody did a replication of the Ainslie circuit. This person has been investigating free energy for more than 10 years and is an undisputed leader in the field. I was closely involved in the whole thing at the time and followed his replication day by day. I quickly realized that he had no clue how to use an oscilloscope and he had no real understanding of how an inductor works, after 10 years. The second example is about your typical Bedini enthusiast. They don't understand how an inductor works, and what's worse, the leaders in that realm also don't understand how an inductor works. John Bedini has never stated how the drive coil functions in a Bedini motor.
So as far as I am concerned, that's f*cked up. It can sometimes be all topsy-turvy. The misinterpretations, deletions, assumptions, contradictions and outright errors are typified by the Ainslie replicator and the Bedini crowd examples cited above.
It's like people that say that "Diet Coke will cause cancer." Can the average person render judgment on the 10 years (?) worth of FDA testing on aspartame to make sure it was safe just because they say so? I am not here to argue the merits of that so don't take the bait. If you guys have a real solid technical background so that you can say what you're saying from a position of knowledge that's one thing. But if you don't have the background, then what gives? If you don't have the knowledge base and the experience to really and truly make these kinds of judgment calls, then why do it?
It's a form of trash talk. In World War II the Americans said, "The Japanese can't see well enough to fly planes." In 1972 Canadian hockey fans were so sure that the Canadian team in the 1972 hockey series with Soviet Union was going to cream the Russian team without even having to try. It was a rude awakening.
MileHigh
OK, just as an exercise, can anyone give me the most accepted description of what a standard magnet is. Explain the polarities, how the fields are, etc. If you can do this, then I will chime in later, but I need at least one person to put down the standard description first. So what is the most accepted view of a magnet. Maybe include a diagram.
No point in arguing. People believe what they want to believe. I could cite particulars, but they are not convincing. You will just explain it away like everything else.
All of the math is nice and helpful "if" it is based on a correct model. If the model is incorrect it can still work for many instances, just not all of them.
I will state that after 4 years here that I know who knows and that gives me the understanding to know who doesn't know in a limited fashion. I can also see the ones that have potential and those that don't. That doesn't make me an expert by any means. But it makes rejecting pablum easier. It has to be a learning process to achieve the greater because the easy way out is 'Problems are free' and it is what everybody else believes so why fight the tide? Not me, same as I see in those that teach.
--gk. Too much beer? No. Too much time in the barrel with the monkeys.
;)
Grumpy:
I know it can be frustrating to hear me explain stuff away all the time but I can assure you that I don't have all the answers. That's why I know that I have to stay away from any possible project that might be done around here and only comment on the final version. Perhaps one day a few of us will follow some third party project that's being done on YouTube or something. That could be lots of fun and it would be neutral with nobody having a personal stake in the project. Then we could have a healthy and fun debate. And you are right that people will believe what they want to believe.
I think back to the whole Mylow drama as at least a model for the collective analysis. But it would be preferable if it was some "hot" ongoing electronics project or something. With respect to Mylow, I never believed for a second that he had anything. The way it played out in the end made for some great drama though. That guy, I think he was Swedish, made those amazing clips that showed the thread drive after TinselKoala demoed how easy it was to do. I always thought that he was hiding electromagnets under the table or he was using fine magnet wire to power a hidden electromagnet somewhere! The point being that the camera would never pick up the fine magnet wire. In a sense I was 1/2 right because Mylow relied on the camera and video compression resulting in the thread not being visible in his clips.
How come nobody ever mentioned that it would be possible to hide fine magnet wire in full view of the camera during the Mylow drama? Whenever I look at a YouTube clip for a purported free energy device I have hawk eyes and I am always looking for a possible way to cheat.
When I personally look at all of the goings on on YouTube and on the forums over the past few years, from my perspective the "classical" explanation always wins out in the end. Of course a lot of projects never make it to fruition, but the ones that do all seem to end up with a conventional explanation. So why the bashing?
It's worth mentioning that there is so much electrical engineering knowledge that has been built up over the last 130 years that you couldn't possibly learn it all in 20 lifetimes. Just the amount of information and research that is done and the journals published by the IEEE every year must be overwhelming. I only know enough to know how much there is out there that I don't know. But to do a Donald Rumsfeld, you have to be very cautious about making pronouncements about what you don't know that you don't know.
I had some engineering professors that were brilliant. I am just dull copper compared to them nor do I work as an engineer anymore. I had a great deal of respect for them and I have a great deal of respect for the engineering profession.
MileHigh
Quote from: allcanadian on 2010.10.15, 03:41:50
@milehighMaybe you could contact Mr.Kapanadze and inform him he has no "beef" as you say despite the fact he has supposedly built a 100KW FE generator.
Regards
AC
I am not really following Mr.Kapanadze's project. Have there been any confirmed replications?
Here is the clip, "Kapanadze 100 KW free energy unit test in Turkey."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CRkDySQCSM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CRkDySQCSM)
The clip shows nothing to back up the claim.
Just out of curiosity, how would you verify the power output if you were the person making the clip?
I am smelling "fake" for Kapanadze from my limited perspective.
MileHigh
@milehigh
QuoteJust out of curiosity, how would you verify the power output if you were the person making the clip?
I am smelling "fake" for Kapanadze from my limited perspective.
There is no amount of proof that will satisfy everyone, people see what they want to see, I might use a large resistance that would glow red hot maybe producing steam but again this means nothing. There is only one verification that matters and that is being physically present and being able to "feel" the power as heat, light,etc... Gauges and meters mean nothing unless they are your own and they are accurate. In this respect nobody can say whether something is a fake or not simply by watching a video as there are no real facts, I could easily edit in a UFO hovering over his device, it means nothing until we are physically there or the device is personally replicated.
Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.10.15, 03:59:51
That guy, I think he was Swedish, made those amazing clips that showed the thread drive after TinselKoala demoed how easy it was to do. I always thought that he was hiding electromagnets under the table or he was using fine magnet wire to power a hidden electromagnet somewhere!
MH,
I know your comment wasn't addressed to me but I wanted to say I agree with your comments on the ease of faking videos and the abilities of the video presenters.
At that point of the Mylow saga nearly everyone voiced amazement at the ability of the 'Swede' to uncover the string drive and the debunking abilities of TK. I found both amazing for completely different reasons.
My amazement about the string was of the extremely high level of intellect Mylow must have to make the string appear above the motor support frame in one camera angle and below it from the other camera angle. Yes, people believe the video supporting their opinion. I didn't see any supporting mine except the one with the string impossibility. So, I think Mylow is smarter than all of us combined or that video was also a fake?
As for TK, I will agree there also. Great diagnostic abilities. Obviously a person of high intellect and a quality education. Unfortunately, his childish surprise and glee about the magnet lifting while sliding down the bar and no apparent idea of the reason..... Well, I stopped wasting my time watching his 'expertise'. It became obvious that he was just somebody capable of basting you in the greatest recital of detailed explanation as long as he didn't break a hip while chewing gum and walking at the same time.
Yes, we all have opinions. Some may never change.
As far as YouTube videos go that purport to demonstrate free energy, in my opinion they are never convincing. There is always a "hole" in the presentation, and for the most part it's not commented on by the viewers of the clip. The classic example would be all of the Perendev motor clips where as the jaws are closed down over the rotor, you see the rotor spin up. However, you never see the other side of the rotor axle, where an electric motor could be speeding the rotor up. The camera shot doesn't show the whole device when it is clear that it would be very easy to take that shot. As we know, the Perendev motor guy was busted for fraud and is now in jail in Germany. So there was an electric motor used to fake those clips.
There is so much wishful thinking and hope among a lot of free energy enthusiasts such that many suspect clips are not critically analyzed for possible ways of faking the clip. Instead, a thread gets started and then the thread takes on a life of its own. The people that want to fake clips are fully aware of this, and therefore if they are going to fake a clip they don't have to try too hard.
The 100 kilowatt power output was an extreme example of a high power output. I am pretty sure that there are other clips out there that claim between 5 and 10 kilowatts output for various free energy devices. You might see somebody show a volt meter and amp meter reading and the numbers add up to 10 kilowatts. The problem is that's all they show, which is another sure sign that the clip is suspect. 10 kilowatts is something like five electric oven bake elements running at the same time. Imagine that you bought five 2-kilowatt bake elements and you built a 5' x 3' metal cage to mount them in. Then you run your free energy experiment and after about 30 seconds you are looking through the cage at five mean oven elements glowing bright red. You would feel the heat from that from several feet away, it would almost be scary. That's what 10 kilowatts is, it's not just a volt and amp reading, it's real power.
Here is a clip that I have always hated: "Free Energy - Selfrunning Bedini Motor Replication"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9ARja0DiT0&feature=mfu_in_order (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9ARja0DiT0&feature=mfu_in_order)
That clip will never die, it's been hosted by who knows how many YouTube users. It looks like the setup is on a carpet floor. So you take a sewing needle and you thread two fine wires up through the carpet to emerge somewhere, perhaps behind the motor, and you are done. There is a battery off-screen that powers the setup. It's an old clip from the low-resolution YouTube days also, and so for all you know there is fine magnet wire running right across the top of the carpet, they didn't even have to go to the trouble of hiding the wires under the carpet.
The clip was probably made years ago by somebody that was selling mail-order plans for a do-it-yourself "Bedini Free Energy Machine."
Here is a ridiculous clip from some currently active con artists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZqYZcYiEwE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZqYZcYiEwE)
There are three props used in this clip in an attempt to give it credibility, 1) a lab coat, 2) a pyramid, and 3) latex gloves. I find the latex gloves laughable, but it's no laughing matter for the people that send money to these crooks to get plans for a "free energy machine."
Personally I have never seen a clip on YouTube that looked like a credible and convincing demonstration of free energy. I have seen many clips by enthusiasts that think they have either demonstrated something highly unusual, or they demonstrated free energy. In all cases, from my perspective, they are not understanding what they are looking at or they are making incorrect measurements. I gave up looking at clips like that a long time ago.
MileHigh
Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.10.16, 06:11:00
1) a lab coat, 2) a pyramid, and 3) latex gloves
:D
Nice find. He sure wasted energy on dressing that capacitor up to look different.
There is another prop. The meter is too slow to indicate the real amplitude for the unloaded pulse. The spiffed-up capacitor presents a load. If he used a scope with shots most could calculate the energy to be exactly the same AND the loaded magnet falling time IS slower.
Unfortunately, this joker is probably still collecting money. I know I could do a better job. It would be too easy.
If my pay cut from the early part of the economic crash isn't restored soon, you may see some videos from me.
I like the lab coat idea. I have no identifying marks on my hands so no need for gloves.
Just realized something.... This joker may actually think he has an indication of free energy.
I'll score his OU video as 15% scam and 100% stupidity (It is an OU video. More than 100% score is a requirement ;) )
Good Grief! What a joke!
I'm sure many unsuspecting enthusiasts have given their money to this jackass and his company. What a blatant fraud.
It's really sad.
.99
I would agree that youtube video's mean very little in the way of proof, it is also kind of funny that even some persons with technical training will still say-- "this one has more promise than the others",lol. Well no, any expert worth his salt would know that none have any more validity than any others because we have no real facts--zero--nada--none. One cannot be more or less valid than any other when there is no real proof of anything other than the fact that someone made a video. This is why I consider only the primary concept of the technology proposed in any video and then if time allows I attempt to prove the concept for myself. Proof is when I have something that is on my bench that I can prove for myself, it is something tangible. The best we can say is that we have an opinion of something not based on any proof or facts of any kind, it is pure speculation.
Personally I am of the opinion that Kapanadze may have something because 1)He refers to Carl Linde's air condenser which in itself is a perfect example of a positive feedback mechanism and is referenced many times by Tesla, 2)He states the energy comes from the "air", ambient air or the surrounding environment which is positively charged relative to the ground plane -- the energy has to come from somewhere--period, 3)He states it is based on Tesla's technology and Tesla outlined how energy could be extracted from the environment in his lecture "The Problem of Increasing Human Energy" in which he also states that many people have made many "assumptions" concerning the laws of science, that is they have infered many limitations which have no basis in reality and 4) I have actually built a replication of his device which I have been testing and the results to date look promising.
The fact of the matter is that we know we are surounded by infinite amounts of energy, there is no energy crisis and there never was, what we have is an "understanding" crisis because we do not understand how to extract this infinite amount of energy we know as a fact is everywhere.
Regards
AC
And now to get things back on track a little...
I have annotated the patent drawings with the block nomenclature.
In the last wo2008103130_c.jpg, I have corrected what appears to be a significant error, in that the positions of the capacitor (5) was interchanged with the main board (HF Generator) (4). This correction not only makes the drawing in line with that of the older patent 129, but it now corresponds with the 130 patent text, specifically:
Quote
Opening the power switch (3), the user gives the electric energy received from the initial energy (1) to the first second part. being loaded with the electric energy received from the energy supply (1) the capacitor (5) serves as a pump, and provides the main board (4) to give electric to the system.
Main Board (4) transfers the high amount of frequency it generated to the first filter (6). First filter (6) stabilizes the frequency received from the main board (4) and regularly transfers to the first bobbin (7).
I've also taken the liberty to clean up and simplify the drawings.
More to follow.
.99
If the capacitor is parallel, like the 129 patent, then it is like a reservoir and power supply votlage is supplied.
If the capacitor is series, then AC is restored and what the hell?
(His spark gap always looks like DC to me.)
What is a current amplifier?
What does he call a filter actually do?
I don't know if you guys are alreay aware of the following posts from the Russian forum.
They are from SR193 who has claimed to have done the Kapanadze replication.
The question becomes did he really do the replication and if so is it operating on the same principle as Kapanadze's device.
It would have been nice if we'd had a real person to do the translation rather than the google translator...
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://www.001-lab.com/001lab/index.php%3FPHPSESSID%3Dfadc3733f851cd35e279fac6cbf5e3e6%26topic%3D4.msg6554&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhh2YY7-09oziUyvN4Jvyl1R8LhnGA#msg6554 (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://www.001-lab.com/001lab/index.php%3FPHPSESSID%3Dfadc3733f851cd35e279fac6cbf5e3e6%26topic%3D4.msg6554&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhh2YY7-09oziUyvN4Jvyl1R8LhnGA#msg6554)
Quote
Re: invention T. Kapanadze - technica discussions
«Reply # 970: April 4, 2010, 12:49:37"
Quoting the author's video SR193, which we have here.
I want to clarify a few points:
1) Kapanadze in his first video tells the truth, only his ideas and your can diverge, HP: the same response.
2) Kapanadze correctly made that led to the gap, "the street" (outside the box), as if the discharge is not lit, then the focus does not succeed, so it is throughout the film was worried about the spark.
3) The apparatus used two effects, only in combination they produce results. The arc has a wide range, some of these frequencies are resonant for the "ferromagnetic", which causes certain it processes. Field appears. But the field is "dead" and the work is done can not, therefore, connects the second process. The sum of these two processes and are used for receiving excess energy from the ferromagnet and in the air, this energy is not taken.
And: ferromagnet can be represented as a material, where a lot of small magnets that in mind Hausa aimed in different directions and can not create the resulting field. The first process allows them to relax, the second turn, so that all these small magnets are created resulting field and powerful. If you just say, it creates a powerful magnet with an opportunity to control it. Well, on work of classical physics.
About my movie: who wants to see it as fraud, he must see. Such is the nature of man.
Another would ask the forum if possible, not take away the information in this forum on other forums.
PS: I read a message here about the alleged my business plan about this product, tell you straight - to me it's unnecessary.
I have free electricity and meaning to eat from this plant I can not see and it looks like it is harmful due to its emissions for two days with her and worked for two days I had a fever and headache.
PS: Roller with Yutuba removed. :al:" : Al: "
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://www.001-lab.com/001lab/index.php%3FPHPSESSID%3Dfadc3733f851cd35e279fac6cbf5e3e6%26topic%3D4.msg6635&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhgtM530AR8Ru6q3N60AJKh1BNQ7Qg#msg6635 (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://www.001-lab.com/001lab/index.php%3FPHPSESSID%3Dfadc3733f851cd35e279fac6cbf5e3e6%26topic%3D4.msg6635&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhgtM530AR8Ru6q3N60AJKh1BNQ7Qg#msg6635)
Quote
Re: invention T. Kapanadze - technical discussions
«Reply # 1023: April 4, 2010, 9:56:49"
Message from SR:
I want to say that the principle of work and equipment installation Tariel Kapanadze for me now is no secret. I shined it a lot of his time, it was hard just to filter out all the garbage that pours out on such forums where the futility of the information reaches 98%, but as the saying goes: there is a ray of light in this realm of the swamp (that's me about yourself-just kidding).
I am deliberately not going to post information about the technical side and in principle the work of the installation that would not get information "free riders". But not going to hide and be silent. Those who are "worthy" early go late, come to the principle. Under the "dignity" I understand the level of brain activity. I am willing to help people, those who really know how to think and understand the essence. I want to keep some "dresskod" access to information that is under the "dress code" refers to the level of thinking.
I want to say that I do not plan to profit from this knowledge and even myslyahne was I a man for whom wealth is knowledge, not rotten money. How would it not sound pathetic, but true. I will cite some confusion and misdirection:
1) Parametric resonance. I am always amused that the majority of forum participants actively discussed the parametric resonance oscillating circuit. I belonged to this debate with skepticism, since it is not all that teaches physics is fake. My Work profession is directly related to the technical sciences, such as electrodynamics and TFE, and I have an idea of the oscillatory circuit in which there is no CE. Yes, I agree that physics is not perfect, but it is still something is taught. Yes, the device Kapanadze have resonance, but it does not parametricheskiy [parametric resonance?]. remember about all kinds of resonances, and where they occur, can immediately guess what it was about.
2) electric arc discharge is more accurate. Many simply to fanaticism collect classic transformers arc gap looking at them, the principle of operation of the plant Tariel Kapanadze is also misleading and even what! Yes, dugovoyrazryad important to install, but it plays a very different role, he is not involved vkommutatsiyah. Those who collected these transformers, probably burned a lot of devices have to understand that they have collected is not something that Kapanadze, in other words it is just RF transformer with a high exit, this transformer is only good for toys.
3) Many people think that can not be output frequency 50 Hz with a secondary winding of the transformer installation Tariel (hereafter UT), and it too is fundamentally wrong! I want to say that for the formation of sinusoids used power bipolar transistors, PNP and NPN conductivity, each in its half-wave, and how it works with the transformer is not going to say.
4) Kacher and other Labuda, but an interesting toy, but it's only a toy and Set Betting is no. Many participants in forums trying to stick a feedback to the UT-this is also true, there is no feedback and no need to reinvent the blogs ikadrovoy horizontal sweep of their invented long ago and Tariel not in use.
5) The output transformer UT hardly a Tesla transformer, but the ordinary man in the street might think so. But the principles are quite different there.
6) At UT there nanosecond pulses and WASO has no relation to UT.
I would say that 80% of the principle of the installation can be seen in a video installation of 100kW, which prevents us to understand? It is our understanding, or rather mess of our knowledge, we are like robots trying to compare our knowledge with what they saw, often greatly mistaken. Tariel studied physics at school and thank God! We often than touch and evaluate the effect of climb for explanations in the book. Perceptions of our world are changing very quickly, but for some reason this does not happen with physics here can play badly for the effect of Edison? Take a look at history, most great discoveries have been made not learned men and ordinary people that the physics were not relevant.
Did not want anyone to run around, but still if someone touched it, I apologize.
PS: I forgot to mention that one of the elements of this mosaic (composed of various materials or ingredients.) is in the video madsatbg
If you only knew how easy it is and the feelings that I feel at this time simply breathtaking!
also on this Russian Forum, Kapanadze talks about his alrger 100kW device, no ground, no oscillating circuit and resonance:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://next-energy.ru/&ei=MhS-TJzZKsGclgf72NzhBw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnext-energy.ru%26hl%3Den%26prmd%3Dv
QuoteRe: Тариэл Капанадзе и его "Чудо генератор" Re: Tariel Kapanadze and his "Miracle generator"
« Ответ #3752 : 11 Сентября 2010, 20:06:26 » Reply # 3752: September 11, 2010, 20:06:26 " Последняя информация с матрикса. The latest information from the matrix.
Корреспондент. Correspondent. Господин Капанадзе Вам удалось создать сверхединичный генератор вечной энергии? Mr Kapanadze you could create a perpetual energy generator sverhedinichny?
Господа! Gentlemen! Моя установка не является вечным двигателем я даже не скажу что её кпд выше единицы. My setup is not a perpetual motion machine I can not even tell that its efficiency above unity. Правильно сказать, что коэффициент мощности чрезвычайно высок. Correct to say that the power factor is extremely high. Мы даже не можем сказать на сколько, мы можем только его ограничить, чтобы не было бесконтрольного выхода энергии. We can not even say how many, we can only limit it to avoid the uncontrolled release of energy.
Корреспондент. Correspondent.
Господин Капанадзе расскажите, какой принцип вы используете в установки. Mr Kapanadze tell us which principle you use in the installation.
Данный экземпляр основан на хорошо всем известном законе рычага. This copy is based on the well known law of the lever. Как ведете, мы берём малую часть энергии из общей сети с помощью катушек Тесла получаем сотни тысяч Вольт и отправляем через искровой промежуток на усилитель тока. How does, we take a small portion of total energy network using Tesla coils get hundreds of thousands of volts and send it through the spark gap on the current amplifier. Принцип полностью аналогичен рычагу. The principle is identical to the lever.
Корреспондент. Correspondent.
Господин Капанадзе нам хорошо известно чтобы рычаг работал ему нужна точка опоры, где она в вашей установке? Mr Kapanadze we are well aware that the lever worked he needed a fulcrum, where it is in your setup?
Вы правы, в моих установках до этой я использовал заземление, которое быстро разрушалось из-за процессов происходящих в почве вокруг штыря. You're right, in my installations up to this, I used ground, which is rapidly destroyed by the processes occurring in the soil around the pin. В данной установки я скомпенсировал недостаток за счет трёх фазного включения звездой. In this installation, I compensated by the lack of three-phase inclusion of a star.
Корреспондент. Correspondent.
Господин Капанадзе и всё же что в этих трубах, в которые бьет искра? Mr Kapanadze and yet in these tubes, in an effort to spark? Там есть редкоземельные или радиоактивные элементы? There are rare or radioactive elements?
Нет там не чего сложного. No there is nothing more complicated. Это трубы магнитные сепараторы от станков, внутри которых катушки из медной проволоки. This tube magnetic separators from machines within which the coil of copper wire. И всё! That's it!
Корреспондент. Correspondent.
Господин Капанадзе вы так спокойно рассказываете про устройство, не боитесь, что у вас будут конкуренты? Mr Kapanadze you so calmly telling us about the device, do not you afraid that you will have competitors?
Нет не боюсь. No am not afraid. Потому что мало скопировать все, что можно увидеть. Because little copy everything that can be seen. Надо правильно настроить. Must be correctly configured. Не зная принципа не возможно настроить даже простой радиоприёмник, хотя схема будет полностью работоспособна. Not knowing the principle is not possible to set even a simple radio, although the scheme will be fully functional.
Корреспондент. Correspondent.
Господин Капанадзе. Mr Kapanadze. Скажите, Вы ссылались на резонанс и опыт Мельниченко, Вы используете его патент в своей установке? Say, you have referred to the resonance and experience Melnichenko, you are using his patent in its installation?
Резонанс я использую, как это делал Тесла, а Мельниченко это человек который близко подошел к тому, что я сумел открыть. Resonance I use, as did Tesla, and Melnichenko is a man who came close to what I was able to open. Нет, я не использую патенты Мельниченко. Но в усилителях тока нет колебательного контура и резонанса. No, I do not use patents Melnichenko. But in the current amplifier is not oscillating circuit and resonance.
Тариэл Капанадзе решил ответить на некоторые вопросы. Tariel Kapanadze decided to answer some questions. В данный момент он отвечает на 2х форумах. He is currently responsible for 2 forums. Запись беседы с помощником Тариэля по скайпу размещена на матриксе в соответствующей теме. Recording conversations with an assistant Tariel for Skype is available on the matrix in the relevant subject.
Удачи. Good luck.
PS: Жирным шрифтом выделил более важные моменты. PS: bold more important moments.
Kapanadze is obfuscating this device by attempting to make it appear a wee bit more complicated than it actually is. At least that's my impression so far. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the filters, current amplifiers, and frequency adjusters are for future refinements only.
Judging by the videos, this device is quite simple and crude and is thrown together in a style reminiscent of our beloved SM.
And quite frankly, I'm not certain what Kapanadze hopes to achieve by obtaining these patents (which I doubt he will). He makes no claims, and there is not near enough info in the patents to vet against other similar applications/devices.
I watched the long video again. Too bad there aren't full 360º views of the coil. I'd like to see where all the leads are going. One end of the heavy 6T secondary appears to be open-ended ??? An English subtitle translation would be helpful too.
Anyway, just a few comments for now. I'll try to post something more detailed in the next few days.
.99
Quote from: poynt99 on 2010.10.20, 01:08:12
One end of the heavy 6T secondary appears to be open-ended ???
I saw that early on. I also consider that large conductor to be copper tubing with a central insulated wire conductor and that 'open end' crimped upon one end of that central conductor.
Just for future reference ;)
In the views of the Coil at the end of the long film, the open end of the 6T coil appears to have tape on it and it is hard to see if a wire is connected to it or not.
There is also the part of the video where they disconnect the wire to the radiator and the output appears to go down.
It is difficult to tell if the water pipe and radiator are connected to the same cable or separate connections.
In the quote above TK states that he no longer needs the ground and that it was used as a fulcrum to increase the energy (something like that and whatever that means).
There is an image in Tesla's Colorado Springs Notes (page 197) that shows the same nodes/antinodes as an open air column drawn over his elevated terminal and secondary. The Nodes are at the ends of the secondary and the antinode at the middle of the secondary and at the ground and top terminal. Not only does the ground appear to be the equivalent of the top terminal, but the location of the ends of the secondary determine the location of the nodes.
Now, let's say that the 6T coil is positioned so that one end is over a node and the other an antinode produced by the primary coil.
One end will be at max pressure and min. displacement -
the other end at max displacement and min pressure.
The capacitive top terminal and ground:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/waves/opecol.html
The ends of the TK primary coil:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/waves/clocol.html
Sort of an inversion of sorts...like a different kind of transformer.
The displacement is constantly refreshed.
So, where is the ground connected?
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2010.10.20, 01:23:40
I saw that early on. I also consider that large conductor to be copper tubing with a central insulated wire conductor and that 'open end' crimped upon one end of that central conductor.
Just for future reference ;)
Yes, I noticed the copper tubing as well. I suppose the output wire is either fed through and crimped at the end as you mentioned, or perhaps it is soldered to the output end.
.99
I am going to make some general comments about earth grounds. In many setups you see one side of a transformer coil connected to an earth ground. Sometimes you see that the battery ground is connected to earth ground.
When you look at the schematics for many setups, you can see that all of the potential differences in the circuit are relative to the battery ground. When there is a transformer in the circuit, the secondary output of that transformer is isolated from the main battery. The secondary side can drive a whole separate circuit, and the potentials on the secondary side are completely independent from the potentials on the primary side.
In all of these cases, the potential differences are relative to each other. There is no specific need for an earth ground. The circuit operation is completely independent of the earth ground. There is no need for an earth ground, the circuit has its own independent ground.
Supposing you connect the battery negative to an earth ground for a given setup. Then all of the potentials in the circuit will now be relative to earth ground, because you have "tied" your battery ground to earth ground. When you do this, typically the operation of the circuit will not change at all. You could just as easily tie your battery positive to earth ground also, it would not make a difference.
Similarly, you could tie either of the outputs of your transformer secondary to earth ground. Then the circuit on the secondary will have a potential that is relative to earth ground and may go above or below the earth ground. One more time, typically the operation of the circuit will not change at all.
Instead of connecting one of the outputs of the transformer secondary to earth ground, imagine you had a 100-volt DC battery, where the negative of the DC battery was connected to earth ground. You could tie either side of your secondary coil to the 100-volt terminal of the battery. Since the transformer is isolating the secondary from the primary, one more time this would not affect the operation of the circuit at all. For example you could connect the battery positive to earth ground and either of the terminals of the secondary output to the +100 volts above earth ground and the whole circuit will operate in exactly the same manner.
The moral of the story is that in almost all cases for a typical setup an earth ground connection is meaningless. You should be highly suspicious of any claims that a setup is "getting energy from the earth ground" because that makes no sense at all.
MileHigh
Part II of my discussion on earth grounds.
I know that many of you will say, "In the clip when they connect the earth ground the light gets brighter" or something to that effect. There is in fact an obvious change in the way the circuit operates, so what gives?
The answer to this is related to the fact that almost all of the circuits have high-frequency AC signals in them. When you make an earth ground connection, you are in fact modifying the circuit from an AC perspective. By making the wire connection to earth ground it's like you are adding a capacitance and inductance into the circuit that wasn't there before. So the circuit has changed and it will react differently.
Typically what happens is that you are providing a new path for AC power to flow through the circuit. This can allow more overall power to flow through the circuit and consequently your LED or light bulb gets brighter. In more technical terms the AC impedance of the circuit drops when you make the ground connection and as a result more power is supplied by the battery to the circuit. Nothing is "coming up from the ground." The apparent increase in power comes from the battery.
Here's a recent clip that illustrates this effect:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSA8gXJzqcU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSA8gXJzqcU)
When Jonny Davro touches the plasma stream with the tip of his finger, he is acting as a better AC ground for the setup as compared to the plasma stream discharging into the open air. This lowers the AC impedance of the circuit and as a result the battery supplies more power to the circuit. This increases the frequency of the Joule Thief self-oscillation which makes the spinning magnet being driven by the bifilar coil speed up also.
So he touches the plasma stream with the tip of his finger and the rotor increases in speed. He changed the AC characteristics of the circuit and the battery output more power as a result of this. As explained above, this can also happen when you add an earth ground to a circuit.
MileHigh
I know that energy comes from the ground or earth. I am not stupid.
The earth/ground is just a fulcrum, and we can attach a lever to it. Longer lever = more mechanical advantage.
He could have just connected to a large structure - like in the newer videos, but he must not have known that when he made the earlier video. You need a large surface area. In the 100kW unit he got rid of the ground - probably rotates the field.
Hmm - Maybe I'm just a dumb-ass...but I got a new schematic...
Grumpy:
I guess that we differ on a lot of viewpoints but that's hopefully the fun in having a debate. Sometimes we are going to clash on the use of language and terminology also. Using the terms "fulcrum" and "lever" doesn't work for me in this case. However, interestingly enough, an electrical transformer is a perfect example of a lever and fulcrum in action. So perhaps we can bridge the divide sometimes. I should look at any new schematics just the same.
If you can cite an example were an earth ground acts as a supply for energy I will gladly try to look at it. If you were watching YouTube clips about two years ago a lot of experimenters went on a car ignition coil connected to a stripped CFL craze. Most of them were under the impression that connecting to earth ground brought in extra energy to make the CFL brighter. To the best of my recollection nobody did a check of the current consumption from the supply battery when the earth ground connection was made. They just saw the CFL get brighter and assumed the extra power was coming up from the earth ground.
MileHigh
Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.10.20, 02:16:41
In all of these cases, the potential differences are relative to each other. There is no specific need for an earth ground. The circuit operation is completely independent of the earth ground. There is no need for an earth ground, the circuit has its own independent ground.
I hope you folks don't follow this advice to the letter.
Almost half of my special service trips are due to some individual thinking this advice is all encompassing. Yes, an electric circuit is fundamentally a simple loop and where that loop is grounded is normally not a great concern. Just don't remove the ground and don't change where ground is connected.
I'm ashamed to say that grounding is still as much art as it is science. When the scientist takes control of something as fundamental as grounding is when I must dig out my passport.
To qualify my statements certainly I was giving unusual examples to illustrate a point and I don't expect that experimenters would try out unusual ground or earth ground connections.
The real point is that attaching an earth ground to the ground of an experimental setup that's powered by a battery or a bench power supply is normally not required.
If there are high-frequency signals associated with your setup, then there is a good chance that making making an earth ground connection will affect the operation of the circuit.
For major appliances like stoves and fridges or for machinery, you should never play with the ground connections. Likewise for the third prong of a three-pronged plug. You should never cut off the third prong. The third prong is there to prevent you from possibly being electrocuted if the hot L1 or L2 mains power wire somehow gets shorted to the chassis of a device, like a hand-held electric drill. Modern two-prong plugs are also polarized for a similar reason, and your house wiring should have polarized sockets. Play safe!
Here is an angle to this.
For arguments sake, let's say you have a 100 turn air coil. You connect on end to positive, what does the other end become? Now take that other end and connect it to a wire that is loosely turned 6 times or so, now what does that connection point become? Now connect the last end to the negative terminal. Now what does that 6 turn wire become. The question then becomes what is the difference of making a 6 turns coil with each turn closely wound versus a 6 turns coil with turns that are 1/2" or so apart?
So why does that 6 turns fat coil have turns so wide apart. In my book it is because he does not want the coil to have two polarities. He wants the wide wound coil to have the same potential as the potential the leaves the 100 turn coil. The number of turns is irrelevant. One is many turns, the other is few turns wide apart. If the many turns end negative and the wide few turns is still negative that is then connected to the negative of the source supply, then that few turns coil is completely negatively biased. It is as if the few turns is just an extension of the many turns coil.
Putting that negative to earth ground just reinforces that same condition as if the few turns coil is pre-biased even before the many turns coils provides its own negative to the few turns coil. Sorry if this many be mixing you up.
Now what can you do with a coil that only has one polarity? That is my question.
If he no longer needs the Earth ground, then it has to be because his device generates enough negative bias to keep the system going on its own.
The last time I tested in that line of thinking I blew by HP214B Pulse Generator.
MH,
Ditto ;D
Certainly, for household appliances and hand tools. Thankfully, I don't need to deal with those except when they are mine. 'Machinery' covers a pretty wide spectrum. Most are not my concern. The lower level would be something like robotic production lines and computer controlled processes. I'm called on those quite often.
My highest points of aggravation are one of a kind installations of communication systems or test facilities. These always seem to have an individual proud of the quantity of letters suffixed to their name. On my last emergency call I corrected the problem and reported to the 'Big Guy'. Later I overheard the problem causer shouting about 'The Maths', 'The Model' and my favorite 'He is cracked! I have a PhD in the field and I don't know what he is talking about'.
Properly applied and correct math is always right. Sometimes the model is a bit more dynamic than the book.
The pin-head was terminated before I boarded the return flight.
My answer for what energy can be pulled from the ground is another question. Have you ever seen lightning strike? No magic there. Surely no OU.
@wattsup,
Your questions are always so loaded. Sounds like your coils are too :D I need more time to provide answers.
the earth connection, in this case, is just a displacement node
i.e. a spread out end of a transmission line
max pressure - min displacement
this positions the area of max displacement at the end of the primary coil and min displacement at the middle of the primary coil
this corresponds with the location of the collector coil (6T coil of copper tubing) - one end is positive and at max displacement the other end is negative and at min displacement. It is as if you placed a battery across the ends of the collector.
This is loosely based on Tesla's Colorado Springs Notes - page 197 and 198 along with several other passages.
This is a shot of the audio spectrum from the Tariel Kapanadze long video made outside.
Audio captured while no one was talking and camera focusing on spark gap: 14:11:01 - 14:11:05.
Don't know if the peaks starting around 7KHz are camera artifacts or what..
Edit: it appears that the frequency of the first few spikes is around 553Hz
G,
I found these pics to be closest to any possible function, within my understanding.
None show the loose tubing (unterminated transmission line) outer winding. I'm starting to wonder if TK's device is a successful attempt at building the perfect tank circuit. Meaning, perfect C and L by way of the dynamic effects each has upon the other during oscillation or passive negative reactance for L & C at critical points in the cycle.
Impossible? Yes ;)
My definition of 'impossible' is similar to my definition of OU.
If the collector is open, that would change a few things.
Interestingly, The open end of a line is a pressure antinode (max) and the position of the 6T coil corresponds to the pressure antinode of the coil (the middle. However, if you have one collector in the field, you need another one to complete the path and that is the cable through the center to ground. This arrangement is now the first one that I described when I first saw the device. (Talk about coming full circle.)
The big question is if the 6T coil open or closed?
My view:
The tubing is definitely open at the taped/crimped end - except for the possible inner return conductor.
The only way I can see the TL concept working is if the electric field radiated from the main coils is radial. This would explain the need for a copper shield between the two counter-coils and the core.
The funny thing is..... except for the spark gaps and tubing winding... I use the same concept to design variable inductive load reactors. 8)
At certain points of the cycle, the inductance can be almost infinite. I don't know how the same could be done for winding-winding capacitance.
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2010.10.20, 16:59:44
My view:
The tubing is definitely open at the taped/crimped end - except for the possible inner return conductor.
The only way I can see the TL concept working is if the electric field radiated from the main coils is radial. This would explain the need for a copper shield between the two counter-coils and the core.
The funny thing is..... except for the spark gaps and tubing winding... I use the same concept to design variable inductive load reactors. 8)
At certain points of the cycle, the inductance can be almost infinite. I don't know how the same could be done for winding-winding capacitance.
Taking the tubing (6T coil) as "open" and the core cable as grounded...splash of hard cider...eye of newt...bat wing...chicken foot...mandrake root...horny goat weed...
Radial electric field: ah-ha!
1. Like a coax with the dielectric continuously kept charged by a rotating aether displacement (how does he get it to rotate? is it automatic?)
2. Could have used foil, tube, rolled sheet, or mesh for the 6T coil
3. not a transformer at all
Just need the pulse rate and nice sharp hv pulses.
That's it. Aspden rules!
Something like this:
Sorry to disagree.
I am thinking the base function is more like the planetary Faraday disc motor proposed by Wal Thornhill.
The initializing pulses could probably be performed by pushing a button off and on with normal human timing. If a circuit is used for initialization only slow square or sinusoidal pulses would be required. That circuit could be turned off after the coil has started.
If he is using the bucking method to alter coil impedance, the so-called 'resonant frequency' could indeed be very low. Maybe even entrained to the dominant noise, 50Hz.
The coil wire insulation would require ratings more than double the coil operating voltage because the two main coils would be 180 out from each other much of the time.
Hmm.... Think of having a giant version of that copper tube coil around the Earth and centered at the equator... Think you could get some juice outta that coil ? :D
According to Aspden and Tesla, it will work. It, also, will not run away in this configuration.
It might even be easier than I think it is.
Sounds like a good thing to try then.
Very easy to try.
Anyone else want to get a piece of this? Come on! You only live once!
Waht is the white thing at the end of the coil and what is inside the coil?
I don't know what the white thing is on the right side but on the left it looks like another inductor that slides into the big tube.
Maybe a nested inductor set for fine tuning??