Some short time ago I posted a video I had transcribed from a DVD to youtube which in turn triggered Brad to re-investigate arc water heating and gas production.
I in turn started to re-examine Peter Davey and his heater which I (perhaps wrongly but I think not) referred to as cavity heating. lol whats in a bubble ? perhaps a cavity ? In common with with all of these systems are electrodes ,plates, rods in the water at different potentials. from there is a question of scale ,frequency,and interpretation often with very different effects. for instance this --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZoiY3FvxKo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZoiY3FvxKo)
Or that which I posted re the Santilli experiment or even capacitive battery charging.
you might in various circumstances view this arrangement as 'a battery' 'a capacitor' 'a waveguide' 'a Casimire device' 'an arc lamp' and no doubt a host of other things - Its in the eye of the beholder I have the temerity to ask you the reader to broaden your view of this apparatus for the time being because I am very aware that my approach is very different from the expected 'creed' I rather study the man and his history, In turn the snippets are connected together to form 'a whole'.
The whole is then tested by conjecture against similar technology and standard dogma in order to be able to reverse engineer the device itself or mentally construct it.-Amen
It is required (to my mind at least) that you blessed reader understand my approach is engineering (as opposed to science) and social history (as opposed to instant gratification). Just to remind you of Peter's claims here is amateur archaeologist Michael Tellinger introducing the clip I'm sure most are familiar with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFlQ6z_qqoU
The mans sentiments are much the same as my own and so as I demonstrate the various stages of this very simple construct on open forum please understand that apart from scraps of information that I have loosely weaved together to make a thing that work, like Peter Davey himself I don't really know why (at least at the atomic level) I just join the dots -- but don't we all?
Like an ice skater on thin ice I propose to stay close to the edge where the ice is thicker in order to explain how this contraption (Davey's desk lamp) works stage by stage as each stage is done I would really like contributions from anyone,you see there are three non linear simultaneous variables involved which need to be synchronous I would like you to grasp this balancing act because unlike Peter Davey I doubt we have twenty five years left to tune and develop this system by chance! I certainly don't so please do try to help and not hinder with chaff.
What I have seen is a very simple device although I confess I have tried a couple of times to describe the operation and tuning that promises a COP of >700 and have failed.
Its simple to visualize but very difficult to describe.
It was observed by an advertising executive that 'a picture is worth a thousand words' If a picture is worth such bounty how much more so a moving picture ? or better still real life ? after a little thought I have devised four very simple experiments which when united explain the operation and tuning of Peters machine.
Each demonstration should take less than half an hour of your precious time to set up and use little more than household cutlery,bottles ,jars and perhaps the scatterings of your medicine cabinet.
I will either demonstrate each experiment or if I have found a clearer example (done by some one with something better than a web cam) then I'll show that. ! fair E'nuff ?
Peter Davey wished very much to develop and market his 'sonic boiler' (Sonic because it is, like sound a longitudinal wave that is being favored and nothing what so ever to do with 50 or 60 Hz)
Any of you who have had dealings with the patent system well know that secrecy is a paramount consideration,
Peter with his History of self sacrifice to try and defeat fascism when Britain stood alone with her commonwealth volunteers surely deserved better from the system he had striven to defend.
To appear on national television at the age of 92 and demonstrate the device is an act of desperation. At the age of 92 It is clear that what Peter wished to leave was a legacy to his two children and their families.......Fat chance! but who's more deserving ?
Demonstration one
When I first saw Peter Davey's video some years ago I immediately made and posted this simple video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teAksvLyaJ0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teAksvLyaJ0)
Its poor filming and the needle isn't easy to see,however watch the mirror reflection and you'll see it.
Its in real time and very simple (dangerous too if your not electrically proficient). so if your electrically incompetent - keep away from this.-- (claim all you want, Ive got the square root of fuck all Lol) --
however like crossing the road if you know what your doing its quite safe, the worst you can expect is the pop of a small amp fuse or circuit breaker.
Certainly not enough to frighten or even slightly perturb a man who has had ME109 canon fired through his spitfire fighter canopy. What you see in this quickly lashed up video is my fair hand plugging in a 13 amp plug top connected to two stainless steel table spoons. for those not familiar with these British plug tops they have an integral fuse which in this case was lowered to - 5 Amps The two spoon's are brought as close together as I could possibly get them without actually touching - It feels counter intuitive and a horrible thing to do, but my research shows this is what Peter did --- So I did too! I am using a cheap Chinese analog meter set to an f.s.d of 10 amps, Peter had rather better equipment at his disposal using this lovely old large scale meter.
(http://www.totalizm.pl/free_energy/boiling_min.jpg)
Ah well the purposes of doing this little demonstration/experiment are many and I'll point out a few of the important bits to take note of whilst requesting you to keep in mind that the effects will be greatly amplified with further 'tuning' were you to take a 1 kw resistive immersion water heater (for instance) the heating effect would be pretty much linear time/deg rise for the quantity of water. The power consumption of 1kw is also linear if connected to something with voltage and frequency as stable as the national grid. that current is also directly proportional to power consumption.
It should also be well noted that when boiling the resistive water heater is still consuming 1KW of power. In fact whatever its doing its consuming one Kw of power QED
All this is in direct and dramatic contrast to the experiment /demonstration I show and ask you to repeat
as the water heats the current (and hence power consumption) varies very dramatically if fact its almost a Bell curve.
When the spoons are first introduced to tap water there is instant localized boiling (at the closest points) and when the whole container is boiling vigorously the current draw (power consumption) drops away to almost nothing. (just as Peters is doing in the picture)
It is a deviation from reverse engineering Peters desk lamp But you might like to consider the effect of introducing an indirect heating coil into this furiously boiling equation -- I did ,
however there is much else to be discovered from this simple circuit ho hum did I write circuit ? is it actually circuit ? or an open circuit ? what of water is it an insulator or a conductor ? what of distilled De-Ionised water does it still boil ? ---- (mine did) . what about yours ?
https://www.scienceabc.com/pure-sciences/do-you-think-that-water-conducts-electricity-if-you-do-then-youre-wrong.html (https://www.scienceabc.com/pure-sciences/do-you-think-that-water-conducts-electricity-if-you-do-then-youre-wrong.html)
-- to be continued ---- (if anybodies got spunk enough to rub two spoons together that is) but in the interests of the young (ish) Davey's inheritance and my self preservation - not on open forum, at least not just yet.
Regards Duncan
Quote from: Duncan on 2017.08.14, 05:59:16
Some short time ago I posted a video I had transcribed from a DVD to youtube which in turn triggered Brad to re-investigate arc water heating and gas production.
I in turn started to re-examine Peter Davey and his heater which I (perhaps wrongly but I think not) referred to as cavity heating. lol whats in a bubble ? perhaps a cavity ?-- (if anybodies got spunk enough to rub two spoons together that is) but in the interests of the young (ish) Davey's inheritance and my self preservation - not on open forum, at least not just yet.
Regards Duncan
Interesting topic Duncan. I did some work with an Australian inventor some years ago now. But it was difficult to get consistent performance.
This is an early example build. You see it had a winding around the two spoons.
(https://s14.postimg.org/dq4dcnm2p/Rezheat2.jpg)
Ron
very interesting ronee. It is clear that lashing a couple of spoons together is never going to be cop>1 although it is surprisingly efficient. That seems to be as far as any researcher has gone when researching this subject.
I have done this silly little demonstration in South Africa, U.K and the USA so I guess if the waters pretty pure it will work . Mineral/heavy metal content is a very different matter and pops and bangs can be expected.
Peters son (also a Peter) once decided to use the heater to re-heat some coffee - That made the sparks fly as you might imagine Lol! still at this stage the object isn't H&S its all focused on COP>1 and this promises a COP of 700 which is why it was blocked. getting maximum boiling activity from the smallest CSA using minimal current is but the first step in Peter's instrument.
Its one of the variable's as it depends on the water where you are. Everybody seems to think they know better than the old man from New Zealand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iiWGel3q50 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iiWGel3q50)
Afraid not! the truth is so far he's succeeded in hiding a big sting in the tale. I guess you don't dance about the sky with ME109s and survive without learning guile by the bucket full.
kindest regards Duncan
Peter Davey sonic boiler again ? Huh?! We are going in circles around :( Such sonic boiler would work efficiently when somewhere there is converter (must be very small) from AC frequency into microwaves. Then the size of cavity may be important. The other case would be to break water long hydrogen bonds which allow fast boiling. In this case sound may cause it.
Quote from: Duncan on 2017.08.15, 05:48:44
very interesting ronee. It is clear that lashing a couple of spoons together is never going to be cop>1 although it is surprisingly efficient. That seems to be as far as any researcher has gone when researching this subject.
kindest regards Duncan
I wouldn't recommend this approach but it was reported at cop 2.3
(https://s30.postimg.org/fesow1x9t/RH11.jpg)
(https://s4.postimg.org/4cmstpgkt/Rez7.jpg)
Ron
Very impressive ronee and in the real world a COP of 2.3 is huge . Still a yardstick I set myself is to judge how many folks in my own street could build one of these things (or could it be made - very quickly and cheaply) if not lets be honest it isn't going to get out of the box. few could build that and alas its not a cheap quick build
Quote from: Duncan on 2017.08.16, 05:48:26
Very impressive ronee and in the real world a COP of 2.3 is huge . Still a yardstick I set myself is to judge how many folks in my own street could build one of these things (or could it be made - very quickly and cheaply) if not lets be honest it isn't going to get out of the box. few could build that and alas its not a cheap quick build
It turned into a dead end eventually as there are so many variables that affect the proper operation that the operator daren't leave the room.
I posted that just to encourage anyone who has investigated this field to post their work also.
Ron
thats appreciated Ron. I guess a few are reading and contemplating. I'm trying locally to get some SS hemispheres machined - if I manage that I'll move up a stage
kindest regards Duncan
like everyone else projects a plenty, health issues, making a crust and what not I have only just got back around to this again.
I have been provoked I confess by Peterae posting on the Trompe. and you remember I drifted away off topic and onto Peter Davey and this heater.
Thank you Peterae for tolerating that. I saw a connection I couldn't really describe it to you all .
The rough sketch I drew I posted in the other place (energetics) hoping someone else might see the connection . This sketch you remember ?
(http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/c/c1/ball.jpg)
With a short description much as I wrote here . It drew an immediate response right or wrong I'm recording here for the record and your interest.
Thanks Duncan. We can mark this device as solved. Now only missing is the prototype. The pressure or some sound waves can definitely allow us to boil water faster and with less energy taken because the main problem with water boiling is to break Van der Waals forces.
Do you think the base of lamp could contain some elements ? I wonder about mixing crude DC (a capacitor to limit current and diode bridge) with AC to produce some level of HHO first - it may speed up process. Is this doable ?
Well I have to confess I hadn't heard of Van der Waals forces - (I was banned from chemistry at school)
again I had to read up quickly.
moving on a little bit and hoping you guys can make the relationship I saw as the inverse of the Trompe
I would like you to take a look at this little critter - ' The pistol shrimp' and the contraption someone is trying to build .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji0GAt-q2EM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji0GAt-q2EM)
The contraption as the man in the background says at 2min 30 odd reminds him of a Trompe bless him.
The energy conversion KW/hrs to water heating with a resistive element is very high. Its a pretty efficient piece of kit.
However this thing - pause the video as the efficiency figures are presented, I could be adding up wrong but I read COP>5
what about you guy's ? dare I say even softly - over unity as Peter Davey's machine purports to be,
I wonder do you see the cooling effect of the Trompe reversed and expressed as heat as I did? this 'cavitation' 'bubbles' 'entrainment' seems to have a lot of words . 'Bubblegate' ? strange how all these guys try to claim 'new technology ' 'our system' I would hope we on this forum have one direction . dirt cheap,patent free, energy for the individual and his family preferably from something costing pennies and easy to make which this davey thing as I describe could well be
I welcome comments good or bad - they inspire kind regards Duncan
Where did you get this schematic of Davey device ? Again, look at my older post , this Van der Waals force is what makes water hydrogen bonds long and allow water to store much energy before it goes to boiling point.
Poetic licence - do you see the rust marks in the bottom of peters ball here ?
(http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/c/c1/welding.jpg)
That is a 'throtteled' hole (as I've drawn) Its a controlled vacuum I suspect, here's an infant school video showing how the vacuum is created
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0TQxYemrgg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0TQxYemrgg)
The rest fits too - doesn't it ? and yes you have too identified in the previous post in all but name . Kind regards Duncan
Quote from: Duncan on 2017.08.14, 05:59:16
... to re-examine Peter Davey and his heater which I (perhaps wrongly but I think not) referred to as cavity heating.
I would use "cavitation heating" because any Google search may spin you off in the direction of heating through cavity walls, some sort of variant to under floor heating, I suppose, if such exists.
Duncan
I really like how your thinking on this one ...and your observations [maintaining vacuum and the throttle hole.
I am steeped in Projects ATM
but this one is sooo tempting and actually some of the work on the "To Do" table [Fernandez manifesto claim playing [RESONATING} with iron and harmonics]
would or could use similar equipment and methods to perform "other" tests in water ,example frequency sweeping ,Timing and driving circuits .
In the mean time
I do like your KIS [leave the last S off for politeness] approach of the basic Drawing you posted for experimenting.
its just the harmonic which would need dialing in ...
as you know I played plenty in the water with mains voltage [and current] in sonic replication attempts
keeps you on your toes...
but did not have the Equipment at the time that we can get nowadays for ridiculously cheap prices
and as you know "nowadays" changes meaning from decades to years to "yesterday" at the pace technology races forward.
I luv that part ...[the bits [equipment] we can buy now for pennies on the dollar from just a few years back.
you could not drag me away from water experiments like this...[WITTS cavity resonator/heater Too
its all Caloric measurement and easy to measure input..
so much easier to play here and qualify results
besides we have benchmarks for heating water as a nice line in the Sand.
O0
lol I like my thinking here too Chet (at least I do if its right) it seems simple stupid enough to be so. I am going to try some sort of crude build even if only to satisfy myself .
Trouble is Chet I've twisted my sciatic nerve or trapped it . I can only shuffle or hobble right now.
still I'm in good company here on forum I'm sure others will be pondering now too-- is this possible ? and as far as I'm concerned the more the merrier .
As for the refinements you consider, having heard the guy at the end of Grumages 3 mins of fame refer to the COP >1 community as well meaning idiots who knew nothing of physics if it was to boil five gallons of water in 5 seconds using 10 watts of power I'd be delighted to sit his arse in the water that simply couldn't be hot!
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/c/c2/A star is born .mp3 (http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/c/c2/A%20star%20is%20born%20.mp3)
In fact I have pictured in my minds eye one of the tortures in James Clavell's 'Shogun' (where the sailors are in the hot water barrels.) or perhaps thats a tad excessive? - anyway thanks for the encouragement Chet, if we have MJN for company what about 60hz and 360 hz or 50 hz and 300 hz Mike ? , I'm sure you know what I mean and why.
Kind regards Duncan
Quote from: Paul-R on 2018.02.26, 17:12:05
I would use "cavitation heating" because any Google search may spin you off in the direction of heating through cavity walls, some sort of variant to under floor heating, I suppose, if such exists.
hint taken - tis done Paul ,Thank you
Quote from: forest on 2018.02.26, 14:50:25
Where did you get this schematic of Davey device ? Again, look at my older post , this Van der Waals force is what makes water hydrogen bonds long and allow water to store much energy before it goes to boiling point.
excuse my ignorance here forest but is this this store of energy in water quatifiable? is there for instance 2kw/hrs of energy in a table spoon of water ? (or whatever) how do you arrive at a figure ?
Quote from: Duncan on 2018.02.26, 21:20:02
excuse my ignorance here forest but is this this store of energy in water quatifiable? is there for instance 2kw/hrs of energy in a table spoon of water ? (or whatever) how do you arrive at a figure ?
QuoteHydrogen-containing polar molecules like ethanol, ammonia, and water have powerful, intermolecular hydrogen bonds when in their liquid phase. These bonds provide another place where heat may be stored as potential energy of vibration, even at comparatively low temperatures. Hydrogen bonds account for the fact that liquid water stores nearly the theoretical limit of 3 R per mole of atoms, even at relatively low temperatures (i.e. near the freezing point of water).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity#Specific_heat_capacity
Water heat capacity is tremendous. We are trying to boil it and have to pump up this hydrogen bonds till they break. I saw video on youtube when the water long treated by sound in Tibetan bowl will have kind of "memory" and will boil much faster.
Thank you forest please consider this conjunction then along with a few clips , I hope you'll see what I suggest - using a resistive element to heat water , It takes the same amount of energy to raise (say one liter) of water from 10 deg to 30 deg as it does to raise the same liter from 50deg to 70deg in short its a straight line graph.
what you seem to be telling me is pressure to boiling point is very far from a straight line graph.
It was so with the Tromp and the result was cold - very cold. Hence I saw and drew the relationship and drew the schematic you see here on the Trompe thread.
I have to approach everything from an electrical engineering stand point hence elongated molecules and the like I can't yet visualize.
All that aside and forgive me for just staying electrical a resistive element (say a kettle) is already very efficient scratching about on the Internet informs that a cheap kettle may be 80% efficient whist a good kettle as high as 92 % efficient - so far so good ?
using plates to boil water even using no air pressure control is efficient very efficient , I'm not going to say over unity here because it gets folks bent out of shape and agitated , never the less I invite you to watch this clip (just to see how efficent plates might be - roughly ball park figure)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iiWGel3q50 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iiWGel3q50)
now just for kicks lets put some figures in here first the time theoretical time to raise 1.5 litres of water
62 degC - 10 degC = 52 degC Heated in 2M28sec-1M47sec = 41 seconds
Heating water in ideal conditions with perfect efficiency to make it simple I opt to use the simple equasion given on this web page
https://elementsofheating.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/how-to-calculate-the-kw-required-to-heat-a-volume-of-water-in-a-particular-time/
(https://elementsofheating.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/how-to-calculate-the-kw-required-to-heat-a-volume-of-water-in-a-particular-time/)
Volume in liters x 4 x temperature rise in degrees centigrade / 3412 = power of the element to heat the water in 1 hour
1.5ltr x4 x52 deg C = 312/3412= 0.0194 KW to heat the water in 1 hour
In 41 secs ? 60 min x60 sec = 3600 seconds in an hour 3600/41 = 87.80 as a ratio meaning in ideal conditions it would require 0.0194 x 87.80 = 1.7 KW To heat the water in the video you have just watched . assuming the European standard of 230 volts AC an RMS current of I=P/V 1700/230 = 7.4 amps .
all the figures seem reasonable those feeble crocodile clip leads could carry 7.4 amps briefly ,perhaps a little more.
But this is far from ideal an open topped glass bowl ! alas we have no instrumentation here to get any closer however be aware this is pretty efficient and importantly starts to boil locally pretty much immediately.
why should that be important ? because you require steam to create the 'throttled vacuum' watch how Peter hesitates before plunging the bowl into water . he's waiting to see - steam from under what I have called 'The camouflage cap' on the schematic I have drawn for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTV85J2QHj0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTV85J2QHj0)
Its only a second or two but thats all it takes! Once a throttled controlled vacuum is created this happens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msr0TOHuAS8&index=7&list=UU-6Xkt8OXH0ThIeetHov04A
This is being shown in a previously evacuated mason jar.
whats the importance of boiling at low temperature ? recall when I showed the spoons boiling water ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teAksvLyaJ0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teAksvLyaJ0)
This isn't over unity or COP > 1 nothing like ,It isn't meant to be. but like the plates water starts boiling instantly at the closest points (where the bowls meets the handles) Its where Peter gets the initial steam if you like !
Far more importantly watch what happens to the current when the water is furiously boiling at the end
- It drops away to almost nothing!
any plumbers here heard of indirect heating coils ? go away heat a few radiators for next to nothing.
Peter seems to have taken it to a higher level. He is I assume effectivly boiling water all the time inside that ball whilst varying pressure so following a curve which is no longer a straight line (far from it) and drawing little or no current (energy) all the way up the curve until Vola! boiling at room temperature . - Thats my take on what Peter was doing - how does it add up for you forest ? where's the flaw ? if there is one Kindest regards and thanks for the help previous Kind regards Duncan
I'm starting to be able to move around just a little bit and so am going to have a gentle go at this contraption . It will take my mind off the pain anyway (I hope) I've invested about £12 to see if I can turn the scientific world on its head -- what chance?
anyway I'll share the plan if only for your amusement . I don't have a welder and I don't know how to weld stainless steel anyway . even if it were mild steel I've seen some of the great constructs on here - so I wouldn't want you seeing my brand of welding ! - Its something like a dog with the skitter's
also whilst I try and work out plate spacing and size I surmise I need to get back into this thing and adjust things, Peter tells us it took 15 years of adjustment to get his boiler correct . I'm pretty sure looking around the world we don't have 15 years to waste .
anyway I want anybody and everybody who wants to, to be able to satisfy themselves this works (if it does) cheaply and easily at an infant school level .
so my first investment - a couple of stainless steel funnels £4- 25 each !!!!
no expense is to be spared here as the scientific world gets stood on its head !(perhaps)
you see there's a small lip at the top of the very expensive funnels ? I have cut a 50mm hole in two bits of scrap Mild steel so they catch the lips . A few nuts and bolts and a cork gasket should give me an air tight if not a ball then something a bit like a ball. As for the other bits .. a butchered condiment spoon - folks in this bungalow are going to have to get mint sauce out of the pot some other way if the worlds to be saved!
a bit of mild steel I saw in a skip and 40P for a bit of cork gasket
(http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/c/c2/Davey%20heater%20032.jpg)
Its enough for me to start playing in the water if I want to - Isn't it ?
Kind regards Duncan
Just a little progress
(http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/c/c2/for%20print.jpg)
bit of silicon to hold the funnels in place . not that its doing any pressure work . thats down to cork on the leading edges. a few holes drilled. If your pondering how the spouts get blocked they happen to be 6mm and I'm intending to cut them back and fit needle valves. all a bit ad-hoc and I don't know how long the little valves will take from China. seems all things and every thing comes from China these days. Kind Regards Duncan
Duncan
heard from a friend of ours [Johan ] and he also noted CES tech
in looking a bit further
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMRY7lb1bZQ
3000 psi accumulators and hydraulic injectors ...feed water at 90C
could only be the sledgehammer approach to phase change [water hammer IMO]
soo much energy input....
and the bug just snaps his finger in the proper chamber....[a cavity resonator
or Davey rings the bell....
thx for picking up the tools [even with the twisted back]
and sharing you progress
Chet
Duncan
I don't see any trace of welding on Davey device pictures.
I'm not sure if Davey device is not just made from a complete stainless steel empty ball.That would be much easier to solve constructing problems. Just sacrifice one ball , cut to adjust the center electrode shape.I would go that path if I can find a SS ball. The electrode may be made just like Spitfire wings.Anyway, is it possible to bend SS sheet using heat ? I almost imagine how this device was made and it was exceptionally KISS way... from ordinary available parts !
Quote from: forest on 2018.02.28, 16:30:34
I'm not sure if Davey device is not just made from a complete stainless steel empty ball.
He had more than one device.
The best known seems to be the two bicycle type bells but the essence of this device is the tuning to get them to ring at an octave of the local mains frequency, 400hz if starting from 50hz or 480 if using 60hz mains.
Quote from: Paul-R on 2018.02.28, 17:22:22
He had more than one device.
The best known seems to be the two bicycle type bells but the essence of this device is the tuning to get them to ring at an octave of the local mains frequency, 400hz if starting from 50hz or 480 if using 60hz mains.
I don't hold with the theory you allude to . I believe its something of a 'red herring' introduced by Peter to camouflage his device. he said 'I must be careful not to reveal everything' - he didn't hence there's hundreds of pages of bollix !
It seems you didn't avoid the intension's of Me - 109 Messerschmitt's through the battle of Britain without guile and a deal of wits.
For hundreds of pages across many forums this octave bollix has raged - you carry on with it if you wish and when you have success (or almost certainly failure) feel free to bring the video here . even fails add to the sum total! - beer tins, Serbian professors, bells,whistles and wot not -et al
Still I may yet be forced to eat my words in one respect , because quite how or why I don't know but even the spoons in water made a noise! (If you dare to close enough)
rather like a mains hum you might hear in a sub station . I had closed the spacing of the 'water capacitor' right up to perhaps 1 mm ! only insulation tape was the separation ! I couldn't record it and film at the same time in fact recording that sound would be difficult,but I know it well.
I doubt I can record it now, still the description of Forrest fits in with what I experienced it was a little worrying even for a well seasoned sparky - a noise just on the edge of where you expect something to blow up. (but it doesn't) It gets louder and then lets go , The nearest I can get to this and what it reminded me of is a bow string being stretched right back and then let loose.
although I know nothing of chemistry that which I have previously omitted seems to fit what Forrest has been kind enough to inform.
although I can't tell you where that sound comes from - does water rattle ? It does shake things.
Very unlike your approach Paul I spend a great deal of time studying the person and to be quite honest I'm not all that much interested in the device itself.
years ago after I discovered Stan Meyer (and the hundreds of others were, as has been noted many times) quite true everything else regarding 'free energy' has really been socially an absolute waste of time. (by design).
quite simply It either is or it isn't!
its simple binary ! not the fucking saga its been made into for years !
Paul I believe this octave bollix has gone on for years now over many forum's -
Its almost a perfect demonstration. of insanity to keep repeating the irrational. My advice is simple If it doesn't work after hundreds of pages and thousands of attempts the odds are its wrong - dump it!
I strongly suggest you consider replacing the 'fairy tale' with a thing you can see happening and the graphs and maths that support it . However please feel free to build anything that works (and its video and figures of course) and bring it to my thread ! after all if I'm right, :-\ I'm a bit exposed at the moment. :'( still thanks for you interest even if it seems extreamly 'old hat' my kindest regards Duncan
Quote from: Paul-R on 2018.02.28, 17:22:22
He had more than one device.
The best known seems to be the two bicycle type bells but the essence of this device is the tuning to get them to ring at an octave of the local mains frequency, 400hz if starting from 50hz or 480 if using 60hz mains.
That's the misconception which Davey wanted us to believe. There is no tuning other then the distance between electrodes and using proper material to get what Duncan described. I believe the inner electrode was made from some very thin but rigid stainless steel like razor blade vibrating like Spitfire wings . He essentially replicated what he experienced during war.
Quote from: forest on 2018.02.28, 16:30:34
Duncan
I don't see any trace of welding on Davey device pictures.
I'm not sure if Davey device is not just made from a complete stainless steel empty ball.That would be much easier to solve constructing problems. Just sacrifice one ball , cut to adjust the center electrode shape.I would go that path if I can find a SS ball. The electrode may be made just like Spitfire wings.Anyway, is it possible to bend SS sheet using heat ? I almost imagine how this device was made and it was exceptionally KISS way... from ordinary available parts !
Bless you forest - you are not supposed to see any trace of welding ! think of what you say step by step with consideration - a completely empty stainless steel ball ? how exactly are you going to make that ? blow it like glass perhaps ?
and then put something inside ? (an electrode ?) like a ship in a bottle perhaps?
At the very least there are two hemisphere's welded together. the welds have been filed perfectly flat probably with the assist of a grinder.
when everything looks as near perfect as possible the whole is finished with draw filing and then given a good lashing of galvanized paint! pissing about with stainless steel isn't nice. No tradesman likes it over much. In practice no-ones going to make a ball with out very good reason.
you seem to think its possible to get something inside a ball (which you chose to call an 'electrode' I suggest you quickly alter that mentally to variable capacitor plate) whilst the ball is never open. Well forest if that can be done its a bloody good trick . unless I miss understand you of course, and thats always possible
kindest regards Duncan
Quote from: Duncan on 2018.03.01, 08:03:26
Bless you forest - you are not supposed to see any trace of welding ! think of what you say step by step with consideration - a completely empty stainless steel ball ? how exactly are you going to make that ? blow it like glass perhaps ?
and then put something inside ? (an electrode ?) like a ship in a bottle perhaps?
At the very least there are two hemisphere's welded together. the welds have been filed perfectly flat probably with the assist of a grinder.
when everything looks as near perfect as possible the whole is finished with draw filing and then given a good lashing of galvanized paint! pissing about with stainless steel isn't nice. No tradesman likes it over much. In practice no-ones going to make a ball with out very good reason.
you seem to think its possible to get something inside a ball (which you chose to call an 'electrode' I suggest you quickly alter that mentally to variable capacitor plate) whilst the ball is never open. Well forest if that can be done its a bloody good trick . unless I miss understand you of course, and thats always possible
kindest regards Duncan
I only said I don't think Davey alone was able to weld together those little hemispheres, not that the ball was created by magic blow ;-) I think he used parts already available at least for first prototype and without help of other people. How otherwise we can explain the mystery of unsolved such simple device ? If somebody would made it for him - the information of building steps should be readily available on net.
http://www.nvf.co.uk/hollow-ball-100mm-diameter-18-10d.html
but I would search for hollow ball consisted of two hemisphered twisted
I don't think Peter was a lier - This is a distinguished RAF officer on full state and military pension we consider here.
a saxophone and a spitfire don't seem to have much in common . however take your mind for a walk sit in the thing !
30.000 foot 300 MPH - Its bloody cold! Peter flew night fighter missions and later coastal air sea rescue . he was an exceptional pilot . There was no sat Nav in the 1940s celestial navigation whilst flying using a sextant attached to a spirit level - mathematics few can do today!
Spitfires were not 'pressurized' the canopies not perfectly sealed . drafty and cold .
the fuselages likewise far from perfectly air tight certainly after cannon holes had been patched many times.
There was 'through draft' leave the back and front door of your house open and see what happens?
I believe Peter discovered that with careful adjustment he could set up whats effectively a pressure 'standing wave' with the null centered on himself.
He found a 'warm spot' from there its not hard to see his progression to saxophone and to this device .
Music ?? well there is a loose connection but thats all IMHO - Kindest regards Duncan
ah Threaded together thats a distinct possibility Forest! I have bought stainless steel hemisphere's but couldn't find anything threaded.
If as Peter says he started with bike bells - and I've little doubt he did then 'he's welded' Indications are very early incarnations of Peter's heater didn't use the vacuum ball at all but rather close open spacing in a self generated vacuum. relying only on very slow initial immersion to create the initial vacuum . It seems the saftey aspect forced an alteration.
Peter's performance on national TV was an act of desperation by a sick man . It was his wish to leave an inheritance. folks who have played the patent game before (and Peter had) know secrecy is important.
Peter was visited shortly before his death by a Polish Bsc researcher. Dr Jan Pajak who he welcomed and showed what he felt he could (and for those with the eyes to see probably more than he meant to)
The web site presentation looks a little crude but the information isn't . for your inspection
http://www.totalizm.pl/boiler.htm (http://www.totalizm.pl/boiler.htm)
kindest regards Duncan
This video is something of a re-hash and the reason I have made it is because I now have a phone with camera and Microphone . In fact it has 2 camera's a crappy front one for doing 'selfies' and the like and a half decent rear one.
I particularly wanted you guys the hear this water capacitor 'sing' that is set up mains hum and rattle things, and so getting the microphone facing the jam jar was my main desire but I'm afraid that meant using the crappy camera. I'm very sorry about that - suck it up ! If Peter Davey says this thing makes a noise (and it does) I wanted you all to hear it too! Mains hum is nothing special usually , transformers ,windings , laminations iron losses and so on and so forth - but in water ? what the hells vibrating ?
I don't know might be something simple I wait with baited breath for you - my peers to resolve, or make a better guess than me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcKJN35dwPg&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcKJN35dwPg&feature=youtu.be)
Even as a electrical engineer I don't like doing this its very counter intuitive, That mains hum getting louder and louder would send me scuttling off at high speed if I was in a sub station.
I have also taken a still camera shot of the spoons . I have tried to show the gap between them . Its not really possible to see but less than 1 mm at its closest points - Like I say counter intuitive .
(http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/c/c2/size.jpg)
230 volt mains into household tap water with a 1mm or perhaps 2mm separation is very counter intuitive! In practice it is where things start to Hum rattle and jump.
The closer together the higher the capacitance ! those with a scientific vent might like to consider this guy and his doings. or rather his effect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hendrik_Casimir (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hendrik_Casimir)
All a bit to much for me but I think I see how Peter made this thing muster so I'll just keep plodding a simple path until it works (or leaves me with egg on my face) with a bit of help thrown in by you guys here and there I might even avoid the egg bit, I did try this with De-ionised water which I also distilled (I have a still that I use for other things) O0
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/c/c2/Making Gin & Vodka.pdf (http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/c/c2/Making%20Gin%20&%20Vodka.pdf)
The water still boils even if its a little slower getting there.
I have been asked about circuitry to drive this contraption .
I intend capacitive controlled DC . as opposed to the household mains you have seen me using thus far.
Its my inclination because another researcher tends to drive water splitters with that circuit and records 'over unity' regarding heating in his water plate circuits. That would be George Wiseman and he makes the over 'unity observation' about half way down this web page
http://www.rexresearch.com/davey/davey.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/davey/davey.htm)
Its a bit tentative for me - why don't folks just say its over unity or COP plus lots and lots instead of - 'tendency' and 'apparently' and 'allegedly' and all that pish ?
Kindest regards Duncan
Quote from: forest on 2018.03.01, 07:37:28
That's the misconception which Davey wanted us to believe.
Sure, he wanted us to believe it. It's the backbone to his project. If you are to replicate his project, then you need to do EXACTLY as he says. Otherwise, you're working on something else.
I doubt that either you or Duncan has actually done it. How low did you get the heterdyning frequency when you were tuning?
Gordon Bennett
Quote from: Paul-R on 2018.03.02, 16:30:09
Sure, he wanted us to believe it. It's the backbone to his project. If you are to replicate his project, then you need to do EXACTLY as he says. Otherwise, you're working on something else.
I doubt that either you or Duncan has actually done it. How low did you get the heterdyning frequency when you were tuning?
Gordon Bennett
Paul/ Gordon/ Bennett - re your doubts about what Forrest or myself have ever done, alas you leave us all blissfully unaware of what that might be ! (I once had a shit in the woods on a long walk) but I doubt thats whats dominating your dreams ! but really who knows? you don't say. (temptress?)
As neither of us has claimed to have done anything, your doubts about it working could prove very well founded indeed. - In fact I'd bet the farm on it!
There is a concept proposed here . I must have explained it very badly because I'm perturbed to see you haven't even managed to grasp the basic rudiments of what I have described and wish to test (and have tested so far!)
I'm very sorry about that Paul /Gordon /Bennett one does ones best but it seems, as ever, some seeds are destined to fall on stony ground !
Its obvious you have already worked out all the harmonics and wave progression and tuning which you talk about and which would naturally put what I am actually showing and describing in error .
I hope you'll bring this wealth of proven tested technology to the thread . I'm very very excited about the prospect -'Oh be still my beating heart' !
however if you simply intend to repeat the hundreds of pages of smoke and mirrors drivel - about bells whistles and harmonics that have gone before please do take it to any number of threads that have followed that dogma on its never ending path to nowhere.
If however you wish to demonstrate and describe this harmonic wot sit working with a huge >1 COP value , then - Speak on sweet lips that never told a lie - for I'm sure everyone (and certainly me) wait with baited breath
Kindest regards Duncan
a few parts of this lashed up - proof of concept
(http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/c/c2/P.D1.jpg)
well - tilting at windmills it may be . it may go bang , It may do nothing , however I want to know! the concept is moving slowly along . certainly no masterpiece of engineering but it isn't meant to be , I simply want to know if it is --- or isn't COP +1 as Prof Williamson notes.
I am following pretty closely to the drawing I scribbled for you . The whole is 'cobbled up' from cheap stainless steel (apart from the retaining plates which are not internal and so for ease of working are mild steel) funnels that have been hacked chopped and introduced to a grinder once or twice , this is the ' inside + plate' a smaller funnel with its pecker chopped off ! ouch, a stainless steel bolt and washers fitted in place of the spout. The washers have enjoyed a grinding wheel until they are close to the profile of the rest of the funnel. The nut and washers have been utilized on the other side to make a solid electrical connection (The +Plate)
(http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/c/c2/P.D4.jpg)
This is probably the most telling picture both plates are screwed together whilst gasket cement is used pretty liberally on one side of a cork gasket .a part of the funnel 'lip' is cut away to accommodate what is actually a 'stainless steel spoon handle' The little bit of pink gunk you see in the bottom of the + bowl is a little epoxy resin to ensure the washers and bolt are air/vacuum tight . The positive plate connection is brought out alongside this support and again made air/vacuum tight with gasket cement . Peter would have brought this feed out through the top pipe and into the stand however he wished to hide things I certainly do not!
The 3mm nylon bolt nut and PCB standoff are used for adjustment . The inner bowl has been lowered until an ohm-meter reads a short circuit and then backed off (perhaps a 1mm or 2mm certainly no more)
(http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/c/c2/P.D5.jpg)
Now the top and bottom sections have been joined making a vacuum tight seal. one side with gasket cement and cork - the other side relying only on cork . (so I can separate and adjust things) the snout of the bottom funnel has been cut to allow water into the chamber as quickly as possible .
two needle valves have been used top and bottom along with very short pieces of high temperature silicon hose in order to control the throttle effect on either side. - (water inlet and vacuum)
you can see the negative connection twisted and soldered to the bottom of the top spout. The positive plate connection has been sleeved and had some gray tape added.
the blue cable tied to the top needle valve is simply to suspend the abortion into the water . I have tested the thing for 'air tight' which is clearly very important in order to test what I proposed Peter was doing. Now I must look for something big and preferably glass (so you guys can see whats going on too) and try to work out a few tests .
(http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/c/c2/P.D8.jpg)
I'm acutely aware that Peter spent over 15 years getting these adjustments something like right. and I'm guessing the best I can hope for is an indication that I'm on the right track.
In the UK Its recorded that 82% of house hold energy bills are one way or another down to 'hot water' be that for central heating or bathing and washing . I'd bet a deal of the world records higher figures than that. Its a strangle hold on folks and society in general .
So much so I feel obliged to re-examine Peters work and follow this instinctive lead however tentative it might seem, It strikes me that as a graph of boiling point to pressure is far from a straight line graph unlike energy to temperature rise there must be an advantage to be discovered,well lets hope so! Peters secret has been a secret to long
Kindest regards Duncan