https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZkuteW_Q9k
ACCA posted this at Stefan's
https://ie.energy/about.html[/size][/font] (https://ie.energy/about.html)
https://www.ie.energy/video/earth_engine_longform_v07-1000x428.mp4
https://www.ie.energy/video/disruptive_technology_10-10_v01.mp4
https://www.ie.energy/video/importance_of_the_team.mp4
https://www.ie.energy/video/get_involved.mp4
https://www.ie.energy/video/engine_introduction_conf.mp4
https://freedomfest2018.sched.com/sponsor/iec_laboratories.1y79x6bz
Welcome to "Where Is the Voice of Reason?" FreedomFest 2018 July 11 - 14 2018 Paris Resort Las Vegas. You are part of "the greatest libertarian show on earth." Enjoy three and half days full of learning, sharing, networking and growing the liberty movement, together!
Inductance Energy Corporation
Inductance Energy Corporation in 2018 will complete the first commercial installations of the Danzik Magnetic Propulsion Engine – The Earth Engine. These patent-pending, 7.5-kilowatt to 25-kilowatt engines produce power through the applied science of magnetic propulsion, delivering 2,500 to over 25,000 pounds of reactive magnetic pressure to produce emissionless power for pumping, compressors, air conditioning, and electrical energy. After eight years of laboratory development, under management of noted engineer Dennis M. Danzik, the Earth Engine is now being installed in four key western States during 2018. IEC will be demonstrating commercial models of the Earth Engine at FreedomFest. [/font]
Well if it is true the game is up, they would have a monopoly on power leasing, what do others think?
I think something may be up here :-\
Regards
Mike 8)
I am asking a friend of ours out in Las Vegas to have a look ?
Gary Vesperman should be able to give some feedback .
I think it is something like this which is already patented
https://plus.google.com/102005083791293244516
Regards
Mike 8)
Reading their bumf and looking at their videos tells me that they use magnets in repulsion as their prime force. To get magnets close together without having to apply force they have some form of interrupter which is removed when the magnets are close. So I did a quick FEMM simulation of two repelling magnets that have linear motion being brought together then moved apart, like a pair of horizontally opposed pistons. During the bringing together phase there is a FE block in the middle that reduces the repulsion forces. In fact having that block there changes the repulsion to attraction as the magnets get close to the block. Then with the magnets close the Fe block is removed sideways and that requires force and energy to do so. Now the full repulsion forces are present so the magnets can move apart to do work. My quick simulation using a minimum number of data points, then plotting the forces v movements on graph paper and counting squares under the graphs to get energy does show overunity, like input energy comes to four squares and output energy comes to eight squares. Too early to claim success but it is worth following up.
Smudge
Here is a pdf of the above-quoted patent, I think it is similar
Regards
Mike 8)
Mechanical parametric variation of permeability/inductance?
Quote from: Smudge on 2019.03.14, 16:57:29
Reading their bumf and looking at their videos tells me that they use magnets in repulsion as their prime force. To get magnets close together without having to apply force they have some form of interrupter which is removed when the magnets are close. So I did a quick FEMM simulation of two repelling magnets that have linear motion being brought together then moved apart, like a pair of horizontally opposed pistons. During the bringing together phase there is a FE block in the middle that reduces the repulsion forces. In fact having that block there changes the repulsion to attraction as the magnets get close to the block. Then with the magnets close the Fe block is removed sideways and that requires force and energy to do so. Now the full repulsion forces are present so the magnets can move apart to do work. My quick simulation using a minimum number of data points, then plotting the forces v movements on graph paper and counting squares under the graphs to get energy does show overunity, like input energy comes to four squares and output energy comes to eight squares. Too early to claim success but it is worth following up.
Smudge
False Alarm!! :-[
Did a proper set of FEMM runs using Lua scripting to get the thing running automatically. Just analysed the results and the COP comes in at 0.995. Doesn't mean that the real thing would give that result because FEMM cannot take into account any movement of the spin-polarized conduction electrons in conductive magnets or conductive soft material like Fe. FEMM assumes uniform magnetization in PM's but the electron movement modifies that.
Smudge
I have some CMR magnets that attract and hover others that lock. I bought them years ago as I thought they maybe interesting to use in a mag motor to get past the sticking point. Still haven't tried them but I wonder if some of these designs use mags with custom polar patterns.
did a little digging on that first vid.
RDX technologies Corp own the domain name ie.energy
RDX Technologies Corp is defunct according to this https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCOURTS-azd-2_16-cv-00607/pdf/USCOURTS-azd-2_16-cv-00607-4.pdf
And they categorised the video as comedy. Maybe accidentally.
ANd the YT channel leads to a site that sells trolleys which seems unrelated to RDX.
They were doing water treatment in 2014. https://schweikert.house.gov/media-center/in-the-news/rdx-unveils-technology-scottsdale-factory
and this
"Danzik, during the Monday conference call, said the company would announce the locations of its Odessa operations "in due time."
The City of Odessa has no records of building permits filed by RDX or Ridgeline within the city limits in the last year, according to spokesperson Andrea Goodson. Ector County would not have required building permits, and county project manager David Peck said he did not know of RDX Technologies.
The Texas Commission of Environmental Quality showed no permits issued to RDX Technology or Ridgeline Energy Services, suggesting that the permits Danzik said company filed for were under a different operating name. A review of records with the Secretary of State also yielded nothing about the two companies.
https://www.oaoa.com/news/article_fda8edc2-b3ab-11e3-bb96-001a4bcf6878.html
As Ronee said, it quacks like a duck....
Only 10K require if you want to invest. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1733169/000173316918000003/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml
This page which I don't think is meant to be published allows you tio pay a monthly fee to be part of the "founders circle" Only $50/month
https://ie.energy/index-2.html
Quote from: Smudge on 2019.03.15, 10:29:08
False Alarm!! :-[
Did a proper set of FEMM runs using Lua scripting to get the thing running automatically. Just analysed the results and the COP comes in at 0.995. Doesn't mean that the real thing would give that result because FEMM cannot take into account any movement of the spin-polarized conduction electrons in conductive magnets or conductive soft material like Fe. FEMM assumes uniform magnetization in PM's but the electron movement modifies that.
The interesting thing for me is that it shows me how the movement of spin-polarized conduction electrons
can be put to good use. In the usual magnet to magnet reactions as one magnet passes by another producing so called cogging, any movement of the conduction electrons inside each magnet does not yield assymmetrical cogging, energy gained equals energy lost, you don't gain anything. But introduce a third item such as the lump of Fe between repulsing magnets and then things are different. If I assume the Fe has electron-magnets (spin polarized electrons) that get forced to one end of the lump, that alters the force v. distance profile in such a way as to reduce the energy needed to remove the lump of Fe. It's what I call dynamic magnetization movement, it goes on inside the Fe. If I modeled that somehow it would push my COP above unity. As that seems to be something profound it is worth following up. I have long held the view that such internal movement could be the key to breaking the normal "energy gained equals energy lost" symmetry.
Smudge
Quote from: Chet K on 2019.03.14, 08:33:12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZkuteW_Q9k
Funny how it seems to work on the very same priciple's as the LUTEC generator C.C
Brad
Lutec, and all PMMs in general, are supposed to operate on the same principle: magnets or ferromagnetic masses follow a different path in their comings and goings in the magnetic field gradient, so that the work performed is different, providing energy gain over a cycle.
As Smudge said about "the usual magnet to magnet reactions", "energy gained equals energy lost, you don't gain anything". This is not specific to magnetism but to all forms of potential energy: the work does not depend on the path but only on the starting point and the end point. These two points give the difference in potential energy that will drive the movement, which is obviously zero when they are the same, which is the case in a cycle.
The fact of introducing additional magnetic elements does not change anything because the same principle also applies to them, including what happens inside the material itself. There is nothing of our knowledge in magnetism that allows us to consider a gain in magnetic mass movements.
So if we assume this possibility a priori, and look for a theoretical explanation, it should include the origin of the additional energy and how its extraction is done by magnetism.
A theory being necessary to model our observations, I do not see any point in it if we do not have evidence of unexplained new facts. So I expect IEC to have its product validated by an independent body so that the facts are well established. But even if we took IEC at their word, today we lack the data to develop a theory.
Quote from: Chet K on 2019.03.14, 15:44:43
I am asking a friend of ours out in Las Vegas to have a look ?
Gary Vesperman should be able to give some feedback .
Good work, Chet. Let us know.
They are bold. To me, the proof is in the pudding - does it work?
Theory can come after, if we can experimentally test the Earth Engine to ascertain whether or not it is really producing power 24/7 as claimed.
https://ie.energy/zero_grid.html - nice vid
I don't suppose they have a smaller prototype that is for sale?
If I understand it correctly, they are not necessarily marketing a free energy device. They are marketing a 100% accelerated tax depreciation on future installations (which may never happen) after your initial large investment.
An interesting scheme among others, not necessarily new. Check out the "invest" tab on their website.
And hold (tightly) on to your wallet.
Quote from: ion on 2019.03.16, 14:58:47
If I understand it correctly, they are not necessarily marketing a free energy device. They are marketing a 100% accelerated tax depreciation on future installations (which may never happen) after your initial large investment.
An interesting scheme among others, not necessarily new. Check out the "invest" tab on their website.
And hold (tightly) on to your wallet.
they list 5 directors. They have 0 revenue. They are seeking to raise an additional 29mill. As at 12 months ago they had one investor who had tipped in 1mill.
Dansie seems to have a principle interacting at his forum [K Walsh ?]
I forgot they [Dansie] have an office in Vegas
https://revolution-green.com/earth-engine-claimed-3-years-40-kw-mechanical-energy-production-magnets/
Quote from: Chet K on 2019.03.22, 09:32:44
Dansie seems to have a principle interacting at his forum [K Walsh ?]
I forgot they [Dansie] have an office in Vegas
https://revolution-green.com/earth-engine-claimed-3-years-40-kw-mechanical-energy-production-magnets/
revolution-green is such a shit site.
Even when your a member,you cant comment on threads unless you sign up with some other garbage-->what kind of crappy setup is that.
Mr.Walsh posted this info in his replies to questions
https://m.phys.org/news/2018-11-defy-19th-century-law-physics.html
Snip
Dr. Jordi Prat-Camps, a research fellow at the University of Sussex, has for the first time demonstrated that the coupling between two magnetic elements can be made extremely asymmetrical. Working with colleagues from the Austrian Academy of Sciences and University of Innsbruck, Dr. Prat-Camps' research rips up the physics rule book by showing it is possible to make one magnet connect to another without the connection happening in the opposite direction.
Quote from: Chet K on 2019.03.22, 17:54:32
Mr.Walsh posted this info in his replies to questions
https://m.phys.org/news/2018-11-defy-19th-century-law-physics.html
Snip
I'm familiar with that paper - fascinating!
WHERe did Mr Walsh post this info? thanks, Chet!
In the back and forth comments at Dansies forum here
https://revolution-green.com/earth-engine-claimed-3-years-40-kw-mechanical-energy-production-magnets/
ACCA posted this at Stefan's
snip
So here is the "techo-babble" as to the official explanation of "HOW THE MACHINE WORKS"...
Re-posted...
Flagship Product – The Earth Engine
The Earth Engine uses the rotary motion of a large flywheel mass (4,500 to 6,500 pounds) to induce a spin in a power ring that can produce a powerful magnetic force of up to 30,000 pounds. Think of this force as two magnets with two similar fields (North to North or South to South) "pushing" against one another.
We measure these forces at one-centimeter distance from one "fuel" segment (imbalanced magnet) to the other segment. We use the term fuel to describe our magnetic shapes, instead of the word magnet due to the fact that we imbalance the magnetic force and we do not use the attraction side of the magnetic field.
Let it be understood that IEC fuel is a depleting fuel source. In other words, over a period of time, the magnetic potential (strength) weakens over a period of many years. This magnetic potential is where the kinetic energy is gained in Magnetic Propulsion.
We "push" the large mass by controlling the magnetic field. When the two opposing fuel sources (magnetic fields) driving the flywheel mass are in the correct position, the Engine fires a small electromagnetic charge measuring about 52-watts. This charge allows the opposing fuel sources to "see" each other, and can produce significant force to spin the large flywheel mass. This rotating mass inertia is then transferred via separate magnetic coupling to a generator which produces electrical energy. This power can also be used mechanically. (Source: https://ie.energy/about.html)
Saw that techno babble and I do wonder what "an electromagnetic charge measuring about 52 watts" is!! It gave me the idea to look at firing some soft ferro material between the opposing magnets but the simulations came up with a COP of unity.
Smudge
Thanks, Chet - and Smudge.
"the Engine fires a small electromagnetic charge measuring about 52-watts. This charge allows the opposing fuel sources to "see" each other, and can produce significant force to spin the large flywheel mass. "
A quantitative statement (52-watts), but how do they measure this - and what is "a small electromagnetic charge"? makes little sense.
Having looked at that "magnetic diode" work
https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.121.213903 (https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.121.213903)
where they use a spinning U shaped conductor to create assymmetrical coupling between two coils inside the U, maybe some form of a conductive spinning disc between two magnets will create assymmetry. Just a thought.
Smudge
QuoteNote that this mechanism is intrinsically lossy; one needs to add energy to the system in order to keep the conductor
moving at a constant velocity and overcome the magnetic friction originating from the induced eddy currents.
QuoteFinally, we remark that these results are also valid for low-frequency oscillating magnetic fields. We analytically
solve the problem of a z-oriented magnetic dipole, whose moment oscillates as (formula). For (formula),
one finds that the magnetic field distribution is the same as for the static case, simply modulated by a (formula) function
[18]
. Therefore, even for low-frequency oscillating magnetic sources and circuits, the moving conductor is able
to generate a maximally asymmetric magnetic coupling between them.
QuoteThese measurements convincingly demonstrate that magnetic reciprocity is broken and that
points of infinite isolation (for which the measured voltage is zero for positive rotation frequency but different from
zero for negative) are generated by means of a moving conductor.
mmm now where have I seen something like this that exhibited low frequency vibration before?
note sorry, could not effectively cut and paste the formula, so pdf attached.
A primary winding induces a current in a moving copper mass and the current in the copper mass induces a current in a secondary winding.
As copper moves from primary to secondary, the effect of secondary on primary will not be the same as that of primary on secondary, due to the copper induced currents that always move away from primary. So in terms of mutual induction, M12 ≠ M21.
I had looked closely at this paper when it came out.
Non-reciprocity M12 ≠ M21 does not imply a victory against Lenz's law.
Indeed, if copper were static and secondary open, the primary would behave as a purely reactive inductance, and no energy would be dissipated except for the usual losses in the resistance of the winding and the copper mass.
But as copper moves away, part of the induced currents cannot return to the primary winding, the system is no longer purely reactive, it is as if it radiated. Seen from the primary, energy is consumed.
The part of the energy carried away can be used by the secondary, and if it is not, it will be dissipated in the copper or will return after one turn if the copper dissipates little, for example because it is at superconducting temperature.
The best model seems to me to be radiation. The energy is mechanically carried away in the form of current loops in the copper mass. This could lead to interesting applications.
I also wondered how to apply the same principle by replacing the association of currents/magnetic fields with voltages/electrical fields. I think that an insulating disc rotating as a common dielectric under two plates side by side, and another common plate on the other side of the dielectric, could give an identical non-reciprocal effect between the two capacitors, but with less losses.
Quote from: ion on 2019.03.26, 11:58:37
mmm now where have I seen something like this that exhibited low frequency vibration before?
note sorry, could not effectively cut and paste the formula, so pdf attached.
Thanks for that paper Ion, I had only seen the abstract and images. I note that they are considering graphene with its high electron mobility as a candidate for an implementation that does not rely on mechanical movement. That suggests to me that there could be other candidates such as gas discharge tubes, and that might gel with the technobabble of "firing a small electro-magnetic charge".
Another possibility is a ferromagnetic sheet between the magnets, which for a rotary system would be a ferromagnetic cylinder between the rotor and the stator. Then the opposing magnets can't "see" each other. But if coils on the sheet have current discharged through them at the right times they could locally saturate the sheet thus opening "magnetic windows" allowing the magnets alongside those windows to temporally "see" each other.
Smudge
I was thinking more in terms of vibrating wires rather than a rotating disc of copper.
At any rate, the ideas presented by Smudge and F6FLT may have merit.
regards
Acca made a movie re: IEC's working principle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksltXUWRvh4
Hard disc drive magnets, have we not seen something like that before?
Regards
Mike 8)
I think the below may explains a similar operating principal.
Travel distances extended by linking pairs of magnets. Magnet V1 is connected to Magnet H2 of another pair. (a) A repulsive force (red arrow) exists in the polar plane between magnets V1 and H1. No significant force exists between magnets V2 and H2. The repulsive force in the polar plane acting on magnet V1 moves magnet V1 away from magnet H1 and tows magnet H2 toward magnet V2. When magnet H2 moves closer to magnet V2 an attractive force (blue arrow) in the equatorial plane begins to pull magnet H2 towards magnet V2. This attractive force will increase in strength as magnet H2 moves closer to magnet V2 allowing magnet H2 to tow magnet V1 further away from magnet H1; (b) Magnets V1 and H2 have traveled a further distance that either would have traveled alone.
Patent
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/dd/92/2c/f6a7092faa7487/US20110198958A1.pdf
or
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20110198958A1/en
PDF Documents
https://freeenergycommunity.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/kedron_eden_project.pdf
https://file.scirp.org/pdf/NS_2017092016082146.pdf
Slide Play
https://slideplayer.com/slide/14612843/
ADDED
IEC and Quantum Energy, Inc. Merger
https://www.lawinsider.com/contracts/4oU6y8xv7zAeIBRNEQmL1e/quantum-energy-inc/1295961/2018-12-06
Quote from: Chet K on 2019.03.28, 12:27:39
Acca made a movie re: IEC's working principle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksltXUWRvh4
Oh dear.
Quote
...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksltXUWRvh4
The author of the video wrote:
"
As conventional "electro-dynamic" model also says that magnetism is all the same, electrical generated magnetism is VERY different from a permanent magnetic flux... "
That's false, pure misinformation. It's only an opinion from a guy that doesn't understand the "electro-dynamic model"
I put this comment:
"These magnets have 2 x 2 poles which are reversed, the magnetization being transverse to the thickness. It's like two magnets side by side, one of which is reversed from the other. This type of magnet was already used 20 years ago to control the read heads of old SCSI hard disks.
There is no limit to the number of poles of a magnet, it depends only on how they are magnetized, but there are only poles N and S.
It's incredible the banalities and idiocies of all these incompetent people who rediscover warm water and announce it to us as a scoop to make buzz"
Is it possible to have an array of magnets, in a disk, such that one side has a strong NORTH pole, but the other side has very little magnetic field?
Ok,so i was watching the video below,and seen something odd.
Watch from 4:25.
How exactly dose the razor blade accelerate away from the magnet,do a U turn,then accelerate toward the magnet ???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bA2OMRcxKo
Brad
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2019.03.31, 13:37:03
Is it possible to have an array of magnets, in a disk, such that one side has a strong NORTH pole, but the other side has very little magnetic field?
I think yes if you can put up with a magnetizable disk material (you have not specified what material the disk should have).
So you need a ferromagnetic steel plate like you see at the bottom right of this link:
http://www.mylampparts.com/Departments/CHECK-RINGS/STEEL-ROUND-FLAT-PLATES.aspx (http://www.mylampparts.com/Departments/CHECK-RINGS/STEEL-ROUND-FLAT-PLATES.aspx)
and you can glue the array of flat rectangular magnets that all face the steel disk with their South poles, see such magnets:
https://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=11&scri=27&scri=28&scri=35&scri=36&scri=40&scri=41 (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=11&scri=27&scri=28&scri=35&scri=36&scri=40&scri=41) or flat cylinder magnets if you prefer them.
You can use two such disks fastened to each other if their thickness is not enough to prevent any leakage flux that might come out on the other side. Or use thicker steel or iron plate as a start, leakage also depends on the strength of the magnets.
Gyula
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.03.31, 14:30:17
Ok,so i was watching the video below,and seen something odd.
Watch from 4:25.
How exactly dose the razor blade accelerate away from the magnet,do a U turn,then accelerate toward the magnet ???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bA2OMRcxKo
Brad
The plate must have had remanent magnetism in it from earlier tests, so it behaved as a weak magnet which was repelled out from his palm and then attracted back in U turn. He carefully moved the plate horizontally where it was almost floating in the field from which it "escaped".
EDIT added a snapshot from the steel plate the moment it was "captured" and stand vertically at an earlier time.
Gyula
Quote from: gyula on 2019.03.31, 14:55:41
The plate must have had remanent magnetism in it from earlier tests, so it behaved as a weak magnet which was repelled out from his palm and then attracted back in U turn. He carefully moved the plate horizontally where it was almost floating in the field from which it "escaped".
EDIT added a snapshot from the steel plate the moment it was "captured" and stand vertically at an earlier time.
Gyula
Well that could be it.
Starting to think this might be the real deal.
Brad
Thanks, Gyula - another approach is to form a Halbach array of magnets.
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.03.31, 23:27:35
Well that could be it.
Starting to think this might be the real deal.
Brad
Is there any way these guys in Vegas would allow us to SEE/TEST the Output/Input energy?
supposedly a thorough test with an independent unaffiliated lab is being scheduled ?
not sure of how this motor is assembled , its huge at 6000lbs [is that right ??]
will they open it up ?
Verpies posted the new record for batteries and energy density some where ?"?
6000lbs of super duper batteries 25-40 KW load ??
Here is the link where there is much discussion and one of the investors has been quite active in supporting further investigation .[scroll to bottom after "subscribe" ]
I believe Mr.K. Walsh is putting his money where his mouth is and asking for skeptics to place 100,000.00 US winner take all Bets against a scam [if its proven a scam Walsh looses .
it is las Vegas after all....[they're probably running bets somewhere already .
https://revolution-green.com/
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.03.31, 23:27:35
Starting to think this might be the real deal.
Brad
Yes, I agree and my previous post is not how this device works.
Below is google street location of the running unit in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZkuteW_Q9k
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.2300352,-115.1262356,3a,30y,310.82h,89.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRZzwDUi8mL0gsBfHQAOx9Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Business (SRI) web and address
http://www.shootingrangeindustries.com/contact-us/
Shooting Range Industries, LLC
3885 Rockbottom St
N. Las Vegas, NV 89030
(702) 362-3623
Shipping container shooting range: https://youtu.be/P0UTJzy8xAA
They are a very serious business and I guess they want to offer an off the grid shipping container shooting range option for training anywhere a shipping container can be dropped off.
Regards
Luc
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2019.04.01, 12:57:10
Thanks, Gyula - another approach is to form a Halbach array of magnets.
...
Well, here is a patent on a better magnet array which outperforms the Halbach array by almost 200%:
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=20130820&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=US&NR=8514047B2&KC=B2&ND=4# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=20130820&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=US&NR=8514047B2&KC=B2&ND=4#)
See the performance comparison in the Table, in Figure 8.
Gyula
In these magnetization configurations, everything is always in accordance with Maxwell's equations. The flux extends in one area more than in the other, i. e. in the other, it is confined, the flux lines are tightened there.
But the lines are still looped and the looped flux is still constant along the loop. This does not affect the conservativity of the flux, divB=0, and therefore it does not affect the fact that the magnetic force is conservative, so that the work it performs does not depend on the path. In a cycle, it is zero.
Such magnetizations cannot explain the IEC motor.
Thanks, Gyula.
***
"They are a very serious business and I guess they want to offer an off the grid shipping container shooting range option for training anywhere a shipping container can be dropped off.
Regards
Luc"
How much are they asking? Also, is there any opportunity for a few of us to actually take a look at their device in Vegas?
Quote from: F6FLT on 2019.04.05, 08:19:51
In these magnetization configurations, everything is always in accordance with Maxwell's equations. The flux extends in one area more than in the other, i. e. in the other, it is confined, the flux lines are tightened there.
But the lines are still looped and the looped flux is still constant along the loop. This does not affect the conservativity of the flux, divB=0, and therefore it does not affect the fact that the magnetic force is conservative, so that the work it performs does not depend on the path. In a cycle, it is zero.
Such magnetizations cannot explain the IEC motor.
Yes, what you state is true however, what if one were to apply clever uses for these concentrated fields. For example, check out this inventor's application and his claims-
https://www.voanews.com/a/can-better-electric-motor-save-planet/4235140.html
I've attached below just one of his three granted patents on the subject.
Regards,
Pm
"Because conventional electric motors use magnets and electromagnets with equal polarity (i.e. 50% north pole and 50% south pole), Catalan says half of the magnetic energy is always directed away from the air-gap, leading to poor utilization of available energy."
However, the efficiency of the best conventional electric motors has long since reached 95%.
So where did the lies come from?
Not from Robert Catalan. Catalan does not say that the efficiency of conventional engines is 50%, but only the part of the flux that is actually used.
So let's read between the lines. Catalan makes better use of magnetic flux. So the advantage of his motor is for example that by almost doubling the flux on the useful side, it can use a smaller weight of magnetic mass. This can improve angular acceleration in engine speed changes, but in no way "save the planet".
When the journalist says: "his motor in its final form would provide nearly twice as much power or torque as a conventional motor using exactly the same amount of energy", it means that he doesn't understand anything, or acts as if he doesn't understand anything to make his article catchy.
Quote from: F6FLT on 2019.04.07, 15:56:06
"Because conventional electric motors use magnets and electromagnets with equal polarity (i.e. 50% north pole and 50% south pole), Catalan says half of the magnetic energy is always directed away from the air-gap, leading to poor utilization of available energy."
...
Where is this quote from? thanks.
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2019.04.07, 23:25:11
Where is this quote from? thanks.
Better than the quote, where are the published family of curves every manufacturer of improved motors should supply? Should be easy to compare his (Catalan) design with off the shelf motors. I did not find anything in his patent regarding an improvement in motor efficiency, only that it used a Halbach configuration. I may have missed it.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=motor+efficiency+curves&t=ffsb&atb=v135-2__&iax=images&ia=images
https://texasiof.ceer.utexas.edu/texasshowcase/pdfs/presentations/d5/rschiferl.pdf
https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/04/f15/10097517.pdf
http://www.itrc.org/reports/pdf/r06004.pdf
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2019.04.07, 23:25:11
Where is this quote from? thanks.
From the link above my previous message, provided by Partzman:
https://www.voanews.com/a/can-better-electric-motor-save-planet/4235140.html
.
Quote from: F6FLT on 2019.04.07, 15:56:06
...
However, the efficiency of the best conventional electric motors has long since reached 95%.
...
I was late, Tesla did better (https://new.abb.com/news/detail/1789/ABB-motor-sets-world-record-in-energy-efficiency-saves-half-a-million-dollars):
>99%.
"
Tests carried out on a 44 megawatt 6-pole synchronous ABB motor shortly before delivery showed an efficiency 0.25 percent greater than the 98.8 percent stipulated in the contract, resulting in the world record for electric motor efficiency."
Attempting to improve the efficiency of electric motors is therefore no longer of interest.
Quote from: ion on 2019.04.07, 23:38:35
Better than the quote, where are the published family of curves every manufacturer of improved motors should supply? Should be easy to compare his (Catalan) design with off the shelf motors. I did not find anything in his patent regarding an improvement in motor efficiency, only that it used a Halbach configuration. I may have missed it.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=motor+efficiency+curves&t=ffsb&atb=v135-2__&iax=images&ia=images
https://texasiof.ceer.utexas.edu/texasshowcase/pdfs/presentations/d5/rschiferl.pdf
https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/04/f15/10097517.pdf
http://www.itrc.org/reports/pdf/r06004.pdf
AFAIK,almost motors only use one side of the PMs field,and one side of the coils electromagnetic field.
The one exception that i am aware of are the small 3 phase RC motor's,that have a round diametrically magnetised magnet on the shaft of the motor,and the 3 coils around the stator.
But even this one uses only one side of the coils magnetic field.
I wonder why no one has designed a motor that uses both sides of the PMs field,and both sides of the coils electromagnetic field ?.
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.04.08, 09:46:36
...
I wonder why no one has designed a motor that uses both sides of the PMs field,and both sides of the coils electromagnetic field ?.
...
This would increase the power, but without improving the efficiency, and at the cost of a complication that probably makes it easier to use only one side, even if it means increasing the mass of the magnets.
Quote from: F6FLT on 2019.04.08, 10:04:04
This would increase the power, but without improving the efficiency, and at the cost of a complication that probably makes it easier to use only one side, even if it means increasing the mass of the magnets.
I wonder if that is true.
Would not a stronger field passing the drive coils increase the value of the BEMF ?.
If the BEMF value is increased,the current input decreases.
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.04.08, 10:11:21
I wonder if that is true.
Would not a stronger field passing the drive coils increase the value of the BEMF ?.
If the BEMF value is increased,the current input decreases.
Brad
Hi Brad,
You do not need power to run a motor (Newton's first law applied to rotation). You need power to provide useful work, and overcome friction because the motor is not perfect.
The more powerful fields that make it possible to improve efficiency are not for questions of principle but for engineering reasons, it is clear that if the same current produces a greater flux, it is because there are fewer losses in the resistance of the wire or in the eddy currents.
In an ideal motor, whatever the intensity of the magnetic fluxes, the current consumed depends only on the work provided. A magnetic field or flux is only a means of converting electrical energy into mechanical energy, or vice versa, it is only a vector acting between the two.
The efficiency of the conversion depends only on the ratio between electrical and mechanical energy, not on the intensity of the magnetic flux. Whether the magnetic field is strong or weak does not change the efficiency, but only the level of power that can be achieved.
There is one principle to remember: a magnetic field does not provide work. The reason is that the Lorentz force is transverse to the movement of the charges and therefore the work, product of force x displacement, is null because the displacement is not carried out in the direction of the force.
Quote from: F6FLT on 2019.04.09, 08:44:48
The more powerful fields that make it possible to improve efficiency are not for questions of principle but for engineering reasons, it is clear that if the same current produces a greater flux, it is because there are fewer losses in the resistance of the wire or in the eddy currents.
The same current through the same number of turns cannot produce greater flux. The same current can create greater flux if you have more turns. But flux is related to current expressed as ampere-turns irrespective of the resistance of the wire. What does change with resistance is the energy needed to create that flux and hold it for any period of time.
QuoteIn an ideal motor, whatever the intensity of the magnetic fluxes, the current consumed depends only on the work provided.
I think you mean current "consumed" for a given input voltage on the basis that our power infrastructure is from voltage generators. If we had current generators then you could talk about voltage "consumed". I think the only thing really consumed is the input power.
Smudge
Quote from: Smudge on 2019.04.09, 09:12:20
The same current through the same number of turns cannot produce greater flux.
Of course, but you have to take into account the context of my answer. In the link to the VOA, Catalan claims that it doubles the flux on the useful side, compared to a conventional motor. We must assume that it is for the same current, otherwise his claim would be of no interest.
Quote
...I think the only thing really consumed is the input power.
Smudge
In an ideal motor, which was my hypothesis as indicated, there is no resistance, and no losses in eddy currents. Suppose the coils are superconducting, their circuit is closed and you induce a current in the coils. The current will circulate forever if the motor has no mechanical load. If it has to exert a torque, the mechanical energy will be taken from the electrical energy and the current will weaken and fall to zero, in conjunction with the magnetic flux. The current is "really consumed" as well as the power. The magnetic flux depends only on the current, and a voltage or current generator is only used to maintain the current when the motor provides mechanical work (and in a real motor, to compensate for losses).
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.03.31, 14:30:17
Ok,so i was watching the video below,and seen something odd.
Watch from 4:25.
How exactly dose the razor blade accelerate away from the magnet,do a U turn,then accelerate toward the magnet ???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bA2OMRcxKo
Brad
Quote from: gyula on 2019.03.31, 14:55:41
The plate must have had remanent magnetism in it from earlier tests, so it behaved as a weak magnet which was repelled out from his palm and then attracted back in U turn. He carefully moved the plate horizontally where it was almost floating in the field from which it "escaped".
EDIT added a snapshot from the steel plate the moment it was "captured" and stand vertically at an earlier time.
Gyula
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.03.31, 23:27:35
Well that could be it.
Starting to think this might be the real deal.
Brad
Hi Brad,
The reason I return to this topic is that TinselKoala wrote a comment for you under the Brief Tour of the IEC Factory video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bA2OMRcxKo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bA2OMRcxKo) , here is what he wrote:
"Brad, if you are reading here, you can do the "asymmetric magnet + razor blade" trick using nice strong hard drive magnets, and sticking one pole of them to the chunks of mu-metal that you will also find in the hard drive. So you have one pole bare, and the other pole stuck to the mu-metal piece. In my own tests here I'm using N56 NdBFe magnets and a double layer of the mu-metal keepers -- and the field on the outside of the mu-metal can't even pick up a sewing needle from less than one cm away. If I move the field so that the needle is at the edge, it will do exactly what the razor blade does in this video: it will seem to be repelled from the mu-metal side and it will fly up and over and stick to the unshielded pole side. So you can make and experiment with apparently the same "asymmetric not true monopole" magnets at home and make your own not-perpetual-motion machine yourself, if that's all it takes. Cheers mate, and keep an open mind... but not so open that your brains run out your earholes." TK has another comment at Revolusion Green which is quoted by Stefan at the ou forum, this one:
https://overunity.com/18188/iec-earth-engine-first-magnet-motor-installed-in-las-vegas/msg533469/#msg533469 (https://overunity.com/18188/iec-earth-engine-first-magnet-motor-installed-in-las-vegas/msg533469/#msg533469)
So he suspects a scam...
Gyula
Quote from: gyula on 2019.04.12, 22:40:00
Hi Brad,
The reason I return to this topic is that TinselKoala wrote a comment for you under the Brief Tour of the IEC Factory video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bA2OMRcxKo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bA2OMRcxKo) , here is what he wrote:
"Brad, if you are reading here, you can do the "asymmetric magnet + razor blade" trick using nice strong hard drive magnets, and sticking one pole of them to the chunks of mu-metal that you will also find in the hard drive. So you have one pole bare, and the other pole stuck to the mu-metal piece. In my own tests here I'm using N56 NdBFe magnets and a double layer of the mu-metal keepers -- and the field on the outside of the mu-metal can't even pick up a sewing needle from less than one cm away. If I move the field so that the needle is at the edge, it will do exactly what the razor blade does in this video: it will seem to be repelled from the mu-metal side and it will fly up and over and stick to the unshielded pole side. So you can make and experiment with apparently the same "asymmetric not true monopole" magnets at home and make your own not-perpetual-motion machine yourself, if that's all it takes. Cheers mate, and keep an open mind... but not so open that your brains run out your earholes."
TK has another comment at Revolusion Green which is quoted by Stefan at the ou forum, this one:
https://overunity.com/18188/iec-earth-engine-first-magnet-motor-installed-in-las-vegas/msg533469/#msg533469 (https://overunity.com/18188/iec-earth-engine-first-magnet-motor-installed-in-las-vegas/msg533469/#msg533469)
So he suspects a scam...
Gyula
Thanks Gyula for relaying the message.
It is very hard to tell what is going on in the video.
A video clearly showing the work being done by the device,and the input power required to do that work would be nice,but i doubt we will get to see that.
Brad
Well
Stefan forwarded a "lead" today for contact on this IEC
will be following up next week ,to discuss some kind of visit with testing.
Quote from: gyula on 2019.04.12, 22:40:00
...
"Brad, if you are reading here, you can do the "asymmetric magnet + razor blade" trick using nice strong hard drive magnets, and sticking one pole of them to the chunks of mu-metal that you will also find in the hard drive. So you have one pole bare, and the other pole stuck to the mu-metal piece. In my own tests here I'm using N56 NdBFe magnets and a double layer of the mu-metal keepers -- and the field on the outside of the mu-metal can't even pick up a sewing needle from less than one cm away. If I move the field so that the needle is at the edge, it will do exactly what the razor blade does in this video: it will seem to be repelled from the mu-metal side and it will fly up and over and stick to the unshielded pole side. So you can make and experiment with apparently the same "asymmetric not true monopole" magnets at home and make your own not-perpetual-motion machine yourself, if that's all it takes. Cheers mate, and keep an open mind... but not so open that your brains run out your earholes."
...
I confirm what TK said. I have a lot of these kind of magnets, I played them too, and that's exactly how it works.
The principle is simple, on the one side the field lines close in the MU-metal, and on the other side in the air. So necessarily, the magnetic field is only accessible on the open side, it is the only place where the magnetic flux can manifest its presence and attract ferromagnetic matter due to the field gradient (but the flux is always looped).
The idea that a magnet should be symmetrical is absurd, symmetrical magnets are only a special case, and the MU-metal removes this symmetry. Who would be surprised that a horseshoe magnet would not be symmetrical?!
Thanks for the quote, Gyula.
Quote
So he suspects a scam...
So do I, but because of the explanation they give that the operation of their motor would not be a perpetual movement. They say that over time magnets become demagnetized, suggesting that this is where the energy would come from. This is completely false, the energy they tell us that their motor produced over the years is millions of times higher than the magnetization energy of magnets. So even if the magnets were to lose their magnetism, the energy to remagnetize them could be taken from the energy produced and would be negligible, and therefore we would have perpetual movement.
As in addition IEC shows us a video where we have all the clichés of a wonderful world with clean energy, to condition us, and they are looking for investors, I think TK is right.
Has anyone considered that there could be batteries hidden inside the rotor? This would be an ideal place to hide the energy source, and the batteries would be able to power coils in the unit that provide rotation against the external magnet, or provide the energy to overcome the sticky spot while at the same time providing rotational mass.
These batteries could be charged to full capacity by a hidden connector or by magnetic induction, and then could provide kW extracted from the rotating flywheel with the batteries comprising most of the mass and all of the energy.
Wireless switches also hidden inside the flywheel could activate / deactivate or it could be set up to start /stop by other simple means.
This is how I would do it if I were interested in making a fake device that needed to provide a few kW for a short time period.
FWIW
Quote from: ion on 2019.05.24, 14:06:56
Has anyone considered that there could be batteries hidden inside the rotor? This would be an ideal place to hide the energy source, and the batteries would be able to power coils in the unit that provide rotation against the external magnet, or provide the energy to overcome the sticky spot while at the same time providing rotational mass.
These batteries could be charged to full capacity by a hidden connector or by magnetic induction, and then could provide kW extracted from the rotating flywheel with the batteries comprising most of the mass and all of the energy.
Wireless switches also hidden inside the flywheel could activate / deactivate or it could be set up to start /stop by other simple means.
This is how I would do it if I were interested in making a fake device that needed to provide a few kW for a short time period.
FWIW
It is odd that all the flywheels seem to be laminated,when solid flywheels this size are readily available through heavy industry equipment suppliers.
But didnt they have one that was totally transparent they were showing?.
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.05.24, 14:18:38
It is odd that all the flywheels seem to be laminated,when solid flywheels this size are readily available through heavy industry equipment suppliers.
But didnt they have one that was totally transparent they were showing?.
Brad
The laminated flywheels are far too thick to provide any eddy current reduction by laminations. I have not been following all the details but have read the posts at Revolution Green and everyone seemed to be pointing to an external battery or cables. TK is on it as well as a few other diligent guys.
I just thought that the rotor (the 900kg gorilla in the room) was not considered as a possible hiding place, but perhaps someone already mentioned it.
The "crystal" unit is not providing power, just some rotation AFAIK, but I could be wrong, as I said, not following that closely.
Regards