I've finally convinced my wife to let me use her kiln, that she uses for precious metal jewellery work. It has ramp up settings but I could not work them out. So I took my plant material up to 1328f over about an hour. I was hoping to ramp up over two. Then let it bake for 2 hours and cool down over 5. I soaked the material in ferric chloride so now I have a conductive ferro magnetic carbon.
Hi Jim.
That's a nice piece of kit mate!
The furnace's that I used to use were a lot more crude, Gas fired and noisey, particularly when melting castIron.
Hmmm, plant material you say. A " taboo " kind of, unmentionable plant? ;)
Cheers Graham.
Quote from: Grumage on 2019.07.22, 10:43:30
Hi Jim.
That's a nice piece of kit mate!
The furnace's that I used to use were a lot more crude, Gas fired and noisey, particularly when melting castIron.
Hmmm, plant material you say. A " taboo " kind of, unmentionable plant? ;)
Cheers Graham.
Programming the ramp up sequence does my head in. 😇
Jim
ferric who ?
Have you posted a link somewhere to the theme ....or roots/goals...of this research ?
thanks for starting the topic and sharing.
How magnetic is it Jim?
Anywhere near that of ferrite?.
If so,you have just given us a very easy way to make ferromagnetic cores of any shape and size O0
Brad
Hey Chet.
If you quickly check the " shout box " Jim mentioned something about Robert M Smith, nailing a battery??
Ferric Chloride is a very well known chemical amongst the DIY circuit board makers of the earlier period. We used it to etch away the unmasked Copper from the Paxolin backing to make PCB's.
Being a very naughty daddy, I had left a cupful of the solution on the kitchen window sill whereupon my middle daughter espied the tasty beverage. She went to great lengths to taste this " new " drink that her dear father had left out for her. Stacking a couple of kitchen chairs she managed to reach what I thought was the " unreachable " and got a nasty shock! Thank goodness for the gag reflex, and Bicarbonate of soda. Father and daughter both learned an important lesson.... Now part of family history.
Cheers Graham.
Quote from: Grumage on 2019.07.22, 12:53:53
Hey Chet.
If you quickly check the " shout box " Jim mentioned something about Robert M Smith, nailing a battery??
Ferric Chloride is a very well known chemical amongst the DIY circuit board makers of the earlier period. We used it to etch away the unmasked Copper from the Paxolin backing to make PCB's.
Being a very naughty daddy, I had left a cupful of the solution on the kitchen window sill whereupon my middle daughter espied the tasty beverage. She went to great lengths to taste this " new " drink that her dear father had left out for her. Stacking a couple of kitchen chairs she managed to reach what I thought was the " unreachable " and got a nasty shock! Thank goodness for the gag reflex, and Bicarbonate of soda. Father and daughter both learned an important lesson.... Now part of family history.
Cheers Graham.
Did she become attractive ? :D
Sorry,couldn't help myself C.C
Quote from: Grumage on 2019.07.22, 12:53:53
Hey Chet.
If you quickly check the " shout box " Jim mentioned something about Robert M Smith, nailing a battery??
Ferric Chloride is a very well known chemical amongst the DIY circuit board makers of the earlier period. We used it to etch away the unmasked Copper from the Paxolin backing to make PCB's.
Being a very naughty daddy, I had left a cupful of the solution on the kitchen window sill whereupon my middle daughter espied the tasty beverage. She went to great lengths to taste this " new " drink that her dear father had left out for her. Stacking a couple of kitchen chairs she managed to reach what I thought was the " unreachable " and got a nasty shock! Thank goodness for the gag reflex, and Bicarbonate of soda. Father and daughter both learned an important lesson.... Now part of family history.
Cheers Graham.
Bloody hell Grum !
Chet like many been following RMS for a while but him driving a nail through his battery finally got me off my arse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJDaNgjrVWA Ferric chloride is also used in acid etching concrete.
Brad it's very light material and behaves a lot like iron filings when powdered. Not sure how I measure much else with but I'm guessing the longer you soak it the more Fe content you will have.
Used half a cup of water in a blender with about a gram of carbon and some paper towel. Strained over a stocking on 100mm pipe. Drained pressed now drying. Baking some more carbon with slower ramp up and a week of soaking in ferric chloride
For those interested in batteries, this video is a nice explanation of the liquid metal battery.
For educational purposes only, I'm not recommending you try to build one, but there is much to learn in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDxegcZqx_8
Jim, if off topic just delete it.
JimBoot,
Could you give us an overview of which type of FWG battery you're
working on and what it entails? Robert Murray-Smith's channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/RobertMurraySmith/videos?disable_polymer=1) has
a plethora of really interesting video projects.
Quote from: muDped on 2019.07.31, 01:49:09
JimBoot,
Could you give us an overview of which type of FWG battery you're
working on and what it entails? Robert Murray-Smith's channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/RobertMurraySmith/videos?disable_polymer=1) has
a plethora of really interesting video projects.
Yep I'm starting here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFrpoRzdINA I'm not using Graphene. For conductivity I've soaked my plant material in ferric chloride.
Then I'll be moving onto the separator creation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g9MQ8e93Yw
Finally getting back to this. The caps I made so far charge to about .5v . I've since realised I'm trying to make a cap out of intercalated graphemes and I needed to take it one more step. Basically add the ground material to hydrogen peroxide. This explodes the layers apart. You then need to wait transfer to a larger flask, top up with water and let the material settle to the bottom. Through a few passes you are meant to end up with single layer graphene.
My problem is mine won't settle. After the initial violent reaction it has just become a champagne with graphene instead of bubbles. The reaction has been going on for days, the material is still magnetic and on a constant conveyor belt to the top of the vessel and drops after releasing gas although bubbles are barely visible. I really want to use this material but I think I would lose too much to a paper filter. I only used a 20% solution of h2o2
And something else odd and possibly easily explained? I took one of my ferro/carbon plant stems and inserted a SS electrode covered in a separator as my +. Covered the external in foil as my -. Soaked it in saltwater for a few seconds. It immediately read over 300mv. I'm thinking a reaction between the salt and metals?
When dry it's still over 200ma. I think I'll do some scope tests on it but does this just sound like a reaction. It has immediate bounce back after shorting.
Edit:
Ok I was measuring wrong. Resting voltage is 1.1V not 200ma. If I eliminate the aluminium and replace with SS would there be a reaction going between the FeCl3 and the NaCl? I would not have though so. https://youtu.be/FJuuH1mb4ec
Turns out the effect exists without nacl. I just need a wet separator. So not a reaction between salts. I'm stumped. I'm not seeing any signs of corrosion. I've tried different dmm same result. The scope shot is odd, will post soon.
Here's my thoughts, I'm still stumped though https://youtu.be/I-lb7Uh9tq0 could it just be the meter registering itself?
And now I've gone and put them series. C.C . I can't charge it off a battery but is it possible that the dmm is somehow measuring itself?
Quote from: JimBoot on 2019.12.16, 10:44:08
And now I've gone and put them series. C.C . I can't charge it off a battery but is it possible that the dmm is somehow measuring itself?
I thought if I put two dmms on it at the same time it would show an increase in voltage if the dmm was measuring itself. Alas no. 1st meter 1.8v stayed the same when I attached the 2nd meter which read 2v.
3 in series
It's just got to be air capacitance or sommit right? This just looks like background noise. Very different waveform to the probes disconnected but still just I'm thinking nothing to see here? I would like to know what is going on though.
You can try connect small capacitor (1000pf) instead of battery and compare results.
I have found that external influences like fluro lights power supplies even metal structures give off electrical and magnetic noise.
components rectify that noise
just keep shunting it with different things and move it about untill you find the gremlin.
good luck
Quote from: Vasik041 on 2019.12.17, 19:29:13
You can try connect small capacitor (1000pf) instead of battery and compare results.
I'll find one and give it a go thanks. This is a bad cap though.
Quote from: 3D Magnetics on 2019.12.18, 01:16:51
I have found that external influences like fluro lights power supplies even metal structures give off electrical and magnetic noise.
components rectify that noise
just keep shunting it with different things and move it about untill you find the gremlin.
good luck
Thanks - I'm on a teflon board on a wooden bench top, all other power switched off, including leds on power boards. I say its a bad cap because it always just settles at the same voltage and wont discharge. I'm assuming it's a measurement anomaly.
Quote from: JimBoot on 2019.12.17, 11:21:30
It's just got to be air capacitance or sommit right? This just looks like background noise. Very different waveform to the probes disconnected but still just I'm thinking nothing to see here? I would like to know what is going on though.
Hey Jim.
I've seen that waveform myself, several years ago, when looking into the work of TH Moray.
I just had the scope across a 60/80 foot suspended, insulated wire slung across the yard and a separate ( from supply ) earth rod. Just a thin line on my analog scope with the pulse.
Cheers Graham.
Quote from: Grumage on 2019.12.18, 11:07:03
Hey Jim.
I've seen that waveform myself, several years ago, when looking into the work of TH Moray.
I just had the scope across a 60/80 foot suspended, insulated wire slung across the yard and a separate ( from supply ) earth rod. Just a thin line on my analog scope with the pulse.
Cheers Graham.
hmm thanks I was really hoping someone would say noise.
Ok rebuilt, still won't discharge. No sign of corrosion or chemical reactions. The wave form on scope is very different if I disconnect the probe earth. Is it worth posting a screenshot? If this did have voltage but maybe it can only deliver pico amps, could you do a CVR? youtu.be/VcOjzVmGv3o
Today when I got home it was 37c in the shed. The device was down to 5mv . Yaay. Then I thought maybe its a thermal reaction. Thought I'd built a thermistor. SO I stuck it in the freezer for 40 mins so it was at 1c. Got 70mv. Then I swapped the polarity of the dmm probes and voila 600mv. It was back over 35c. Scope shots with and without earth connected. DMM is off. Our mains AC is 50hz
This thing shits me. Ivdc 1.4Ac Adding the house ground instead of scope probe ground. DMM drops the voltage visibly on the scope by 300mv. Built a smaller one 1.1vdc . I'm ready to crush it all up, stick it in a tube and make a wire. I'll definitely be firing up the kiln again though... providing my wife permits me access. I'm using the house ground which is adding by the looks of it a harmonic set of spikes. The zoom is of the final spike in the sequence.
Threw another together with a smaller piece now I have a pronounced carrier wave for my pulses. Very annoying.
Hi Jim,
be aware i can get your fingerprints from those screen pictures!! 8) ;D
Anyway, that last screenshot shows a 50Hz (20ms pp) ripple, along with bursts of 10MHz (100ns pp) signals.
The 50Hz surely comes from your mains, the 10Mhz probably from some equipment nearby (scope, FG, x-tal controlled (10Mhz) something.
Not able to comment on your battery unit due to lack of knowledge about them.
Regards Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2019.12.22, 10:55:51
Hi Jim,
be aware i can get your fingerprints from those screen pictures!! 8) ;D
Anyway, that last screenshot shows a 50Hz (20ms pp) ripple, along with bursts of 10MHz (100ns pp) signals.
The 50Hz surely comes from your mains, the 10Mhz probably from some equipment nearby (scope, FG, x-tal controlled (10Mhz) something.
Not able to comment on your battery unit due to lack of knowledge about them.
Regards Itsu
Ha ha thanks mate. Damn I usually catch the 50hz. thanks. It was an LED I had running.
Not much to report, voltage has risen for some reason. Voltage drops on the scope when I attach a dmm. I'll probably do another to show scope shots but I'll be making more material to see how it acts as a core or ferrite type ring for another project ;) edit: link would help C.C https://youtu.be/mfo_ITGSjh8
I swear I'm going to leave this alone.... conductivity test https://youtu.be/mGU5Aw7hKKE
Bugger, I bought a passive analogue meter. Over the 3k resistor I get around 100mv. Leaves me scratching my head.
Made a new cell from scratch with ground up material wrapped in paper a couple of drops of salt water added. Then clamped. Analogue meter reads 800mv, familiar waveform. Still damp.
I'm still trying to dismiss but can't. Dry cell this morn 500mv. Will put in my own ground instead of using the house. Will build a couple more cells to test side by side. ANy other suggestions to help dismiss this are welcome. Tried graphite electrodes and charge still exits but al is slightly better Thanks. Made a new cell by mixing of the material with sodium silicate to form a thick paste, then wrapped around graphite electrode. This is one that does hold a charge. Im hoping to nullify any potential chemical reactions
ignore dmm & scope shots. They're rubbish. So Im just using the Analogue meter.
Can carry a load https://youtu.be/EqrmjhnR-yM of 10k
RMS says it's pro sly just electrostatics or temperature. I tend to agree so I will be moving on with core material and graphene production