Chet:
QuoteNo not endorsing at all, If it turns out that this can be done thru cavitation?
I would have to excersise an awful lot of self control,I would really like to go out to Ohio
And put a nice hot OU water heater in a place on SIR TraPP that the sun don't shine!
To many lost lives in this Oil war! [my sons are old enough to get sucked in too]
However Not gonna go there ,
Go over to Overunity And tell me all about the Pistol shrimp,and Thrapp,I won't disscuss this in Farrah's Thread, PERIOD!!!
So here we are. I need you to help me out first.
What can be done through cavitation? Witts water heater stuff or electrolysis or what?
What about Ohio and Sir Trapp? Is that where the Witts compound is? Is Sir Trapp a Witts character?
What do you want to know about the Pistol shrimp? I am asking a serious question. Note I can only give you general responses, I saw the clip several months ago.
Finally, a question about cavitation and electrolysis. What is the line of thinking here? I am not reading that thread.
Thanks,
MileHigh
Well
You'll have to bear with me, I'm in the middle of finishing up some work here.
I appreciate you taking the time!
be back shortly,
Chet
Trying to determine if cavitation of an electrolyte (H20/KOH or H20/NaOH) induced by magnetic or ultrasonic resonance in conjunction with electrolysis will generate HHO or ducted H/O more efficiently than by electrolysis alone.
Iquant:
Which resonance are we talking about, magnetic or ultrasonic? The next question is resonance with what? If something is resonating, first you have to define what that is. Also, what is the resonant frequency?
There is a point behind these questions that is really worth considering. The point is that you can't just use the term "resonance" without giving it some meaning, because it always has meaning. By the same token, if I assume that someone observed some bubbles in the water, how do you know that's a resonance effect? What is your rationale for stating that?
I can't presume anything because I am not following the thread so I need your or Chet's help here. If there were cavitation bubbles, then I would assume that they would appear and disappear instantly. So they might appear to be a more or less static cloudiness in the water. If on the other hand some fine bubbles rose to the surface, then they would not be cavitation bubbles. What was seen to indicate the presence of cavitation bubbles?
Does the experiment show that HHO is being generated more efficiently or does someone just suspect that? Is there any data?
This may seem like a pain in the ass to raise all of these issues, but they have to be raised. It's a mistake to make leaps of logic. I don't want to prejudge anyone here but I am smelling some leaps of logic.
Thanks,
MileHigh
MH
I see iquant covered the "cavitation electrolysis" question
My interest In cavitation stems from the "effect" the Pistol shrimp performs in water!
I believe the 5000 degrees celsius and an event I know NOTHING about called Sonoluminescence[i think thats how its spelled]
Seeing this Bizzare event, performed by a Bug, lead me to believe that this could be the force that we all [us ou types] have been searching for,
just happens in different media ,but basically "Opens a door" where things can possibly be manipulated
into an alternate out come [An OU event}
Cavitating molecules to the point of 5000 C and sonoluminescence takeing place!
Not Prop cavitation Etc..........................
Witts would just be a way In my opinion that if "SonoCavitation"[just made that up] does cause an event
Witts figured a way to "harvest " from the "Event".
If you can show that SonoCavitation is no big deal,
I would be very interested!!
Chet
Chet:
For starters it looks like Wattsup has discounted any cavitation in the electrolysis experiment. Please read his posting and let me know what you think.
QuoteSeeing this Bizzare event, performed by a Bug, lead me to believe that this could be the force that we all [us ou types] have been searching for,
just happens in different media ,but basically "Opens a door" where things can possibly be manipulated
You are indeed making a leap of logic. The Pistol shrimp can cock some muscles in it's claw and snap two "teeth" in the claw together with such speed and force that it sends out a sound wave in the water that's at a very high intensity.
The intensity of the sound wave is so high that the instantaneous negative pressure on the water molecules is high enough to rip the water molecules apart and cause cavitation. The work done to rip the water molecules apart came from the shrimp's muscles. Then the cumulative water and air pressure responds and pushes the bubbles down to zero volume and you have a small number of water molecules smashing into each other at high velocity. So some of that energy gets converted into heat and light. This is all just a manifestation of the conservation of energy. A simple analogy is to say that this is just playing with mechanical springs. There is a relatively simple energy trail to follow to see this. You are attributing something mystical to something that is ordinary.
The Pistol shrimp generates water cavitation as a side effect to what it's really trying to do. It's trying to send a sound wave at its prey to stun it so it can catch it and eat it.
You can look at water as a medium for transferring sound energy just like air or steel. All three have a characteristic impedance that determines the speed that the sound waves will travel. Water happens to have a property where the equivalent "permeability" (or "permittivity") actually breaks down and fails after the stress gets too high resulting in cavitation. It has absolutely nothing to do with any kind of potential energy source.
For me, this is an example where as a group you should consider debating the premise before you start debating the potential benefits. The premise is false. Look at the classic example of a motor and adding pick-up coils. How may times have you read someone state that they are going to add more pick-up coils to a Bedini or some other motor in pursuit of over unity? The premise behind that idea is false, and it is worth debating the premise before you go and add more pick-up coils.
MileHigh
One more comment: The presence of bubbles appearing in the water could just as easily be due to regular gasses condensing out of the water solution and becoming bubbles, just like when you open a bottle of Coke. That's a much less energetic process than cavitation. There are always some air molecules dissolved in the water. You lower the water pressure and bubbles will appear.
I've not found any cases where cavitation produces more gas...
Resonance is probably the wrong term... one that I added in the brief one line reply.
The examples I'm looking at are using ultrasonic agitation inducing cavitation.
Mookie and FarrahDay are looking at a magnetic implementation which they suspect induces cavitation effect.
www.hielscher.com manufacture industrial ultrasonic equipment.
http://www.hielscher.com/ultrasonics/cavitat.htm is worth a quick read
A few of their videos are listed below.
Ultrasonic Cavitation in Water: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkYtVjJGNRs
Ultrasonic Cavitation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oNZcLyCR_Q
Another interesting video:
I don't follow the science but the claim is being able to produce a flame and burn water purely by ultrasonic oscillations...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4nSIOdKyKA
(The Video description contains their scientific claims and theories)
This guy used a ultrasonic pond fogger in an HHO setup measuring the gas production.
http://www.youtube.com/user/m3sca1#p/u/50/Hxtug3pIHlc
His results were no increase in gas... however, he stated he had no way to tune his pond fogger.
There is a good chance no cavitation was actually occurring in his experiment.
This is where tuning / resonance came to my mind.
A good experiment would be to replicate this experiment with Hielscher equipment.
Iquant:
Interesting links. I am going to briefly comment on some of them but please realize that I am skipping some stuff, I'm not directly involved here.
I noticed the ultrasonic cavitation produced a milky smoke just like I expected. It must take a lot of electrical -> mechanical power to do that.
I didn't read the tech stuff behind the short clip where the guy is claiming to "burn water." It's a nonsense clip, the flame is turning from blue to yellow because it is getting cooler - from the water. Water is already "burnt," it's the burnt "ash" of hydrogen. So it's nonsense and I didn't bother to read the tech explanation.
With respect to ultrasonics and cavitation and increased HHO production: Ultrasonics and cavitation are mechanical processes. We know that generating HHO is an electrical process that operates on the molecular level. It takes energy to rip apart water molecules and it is all based on the flow of electrical current.
So somebody tell me why they think that mechanically shaking water up will generate more HHO (2H2+O2) when it is an electrical process that rips the water molecules apart? Even if you are inducing cavitation at a very high frequency as far as a single water molecule is concerned I doubt it would make any difference. A water molecule is so tiny that the vibrations may as well be like how we as humans perceive the "motion" of the ocean tides. Can anybody offer up a possible explanation or theory behind the cavitation-electrolysis connection? Perhaps a link? Who is the link from and what does a neutral Google search say about this person or organization?
Alternatively, if there are no theories, is there any solid empirical evidence of this? Has it been replicated? What about the credibility of the people or organizations claiming the empirical evidence?
Anyway, this is all fodder for Farah's thread, it's not for here. However, my message is the same. The "resonance" concept seems to have fallen flat unless someone can give some details. So I am questioning the new premise, that mechanical cavitation/vibration can somehow improve the electrical decomposition of water into Oxygen and Hydrogen. From what I can see, and I am certainly no expert, I can't envision how mechanically shaking up water could possibly make a difference to the molecular-scale electrical separation of water.
MileHigh
A final thought about the Pistol shrimp clip. If I recall in the clip the trail of bubbles produced lasts a second or two. That would mean that the air bubbles are simply the condensation of the air dissolved into the water back into tiny bubbles. Then the tiny bubbles take a second or two to dissolve back into the water and disappear.
If true cavitation was taking place I believe the air bubbles should disappear in a fraction of a fraction of a second.
I can't remember if there was any sono-luminisence taking place in the clip. If there was that would indicate true cavitation. Perhaps then both processes were taking place at the same time.
For Chet: Heat is just molecules in motion, and light happens when you have lots of heat. What you are not asking is how much heat and how long that heat is present. Just quoting the temperature means nothing without quoting the other variables.
MileHigh
Well if you go through the train wreck of intertwined and related threads filtering all of the mud slinging there may be a few topics of interest.
What tripped my trigger was the Magnetolysis thread: super saturated NaOH magnetically induced to generate hydrogen.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9448.msg263524
The thread evolved and branched into a few tangents:
Mookie's Electrolysis Accelerator was the start of Farrah's thread here bringing about the cavitation theories.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6637-electrolysis-accelerator.html
Mookie has dropped out of the dialog... Farrah took the bull by the horns.
This is Mookies original video and explanation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKqs5z2DrCk
Electrolysis acceleration created by resonating electrodes producing electron avalanche.
I would say we are in the mad scientist phase...
Setting up baseline experiments to test and replicate.
iquant
Quote:
I would say we are in the mad scientist phase...
Setting up baseline experiments to test and replicate.
---------------------------------------
Sounds good!!
MH
5000 degrees celsius from a clam clap in the water [claw]! [and MH yawns]
I don't think sonoluminescence would be described well as just a result of Heat!
AnyHoooooo
Thanks for tryin ,I ain't buyin!
There's potential here ,something very special is happening ,something that I believe we will investigate.
Time will tell ............................
Thanks
Chet
Iquant:
I looked at the original Mookie video. For starters, what I was thinking that "electrolysis acceleration" meant was more HHO gas for your electrical buck. With that in mind, I will give you my take from watching the video.
I mentioned the abuse of the term "resonance" and we saw it in this clip. He is aiming an electromagnet at the electrolysis jar that creates a magnetic field at a fixed frequency of 60 Hz. This is making the plates shake. It gets noisy when he cranks up the juice. So he is driving the plates into vibration from an outside source. Nothing at all is resonating, but the plates are being induced to vibrate at 60 Hz.
So the vibrating plates agitate the water. This accelerates the production of HHO because there is always "fresh water" available next to the plates for the reaction. Here is the key point: The computer power supply has to supply more power to support the increased gas production rate. If you monitored the current going into the plates I believe that you would see this. Unfortunately he was not monitoring the plate current. So no extra HHO production for your electrical energy buck. The process is not more efficient, it just runs faster. If you guys were using the term "more efficient" you were way off in the sense that you were using the wrong terminology.
"Electron avalanche" is a term normally associated with semiconductor technology. I have no idea why Mookie stated this but I think that he was just dreaming. Did anyone ask him to state what he really meant here?
Chet:
When you see metal scrape against asphalt, say from a moving car, and you see sparks. What do you think the temperature of the center of the spark is? I don't have the answer but it could be several thousand degrees.
The 5000 degrees Celsius from the clam clap is infinitesimally small in size. It might only be a few tens of microns in diameter and it might only last for a few microseconds. You didn't try so I spelled it out in more detail for you so you might buy. It's the manifestation of the conservation of energy, and nothing more than that. Light in this case is just a result of the heat, it's as simple as that.
MileHigh
Milehigh,
Looks like your up to speed...
Below is a link to Farrah's take on her current state of affairs... appears we are all on the same page:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=406.0
MH,
Chet and the Gang are referring to the "cavitation" diatribes that "The Buzz" started on OU.com a couple of years ago. He still pops in to offer that challenge that ALL OU devices utilize cavitation to release extra energy and that no one can prove him wrong. He adds that if you show him a valid OU device, he can show you where the cavitation occurs.
It gets quite interesting actually as Buzz is quite knowledgeable about all of these devices and about cavitation. The premise is that the mass of the device or some portion of it is converted into energy by this cavitation. All this would be laughable, but if you impact excite a very long coil something happens that appears to be a very brief change in mass - like it all bulged. There is the subsequent "ringing" that is more from the space around the coil than the coil itself. Makes you wonder...
Text on spark gap transmitters will tell you that an impact excited coil rings and that this is not OU. However, the energy in the ringing is more than the energy in the initial impact pulse. How do you differentiate between space ringing and the coil ringing? Moving aether is relative. It is the same as if you moved the coil.
Now, suppose you make this coil a toroid, and impulse excite it. If you timed pulses at a particular interval, the first pulse in the coil will meet the last pulse. Will it ring or will it increase the energy in the space around the coil? No textbooks allowed. This is a bench test. HV pulses of say 1kv and a few ns in width. Freq will be a function of coil length and diameter, as well as other parameters.
I'll throw a few more bones on the plate. An impulse creates a radial electric field, and the aether will move perpendicular to this radial electric field. Our REF is moving so the aether is moving with it. Moving aether can induce a conduction current.
Grumpy:
I once read someone post that every musical instrument that makes use of resonance is an over unity device. The society is not healthy without the fringe.
Quoteif you impact excite a very long coil something happens that appears to be a very brief change in mass - like it all bulged. There is the subsequent "ringing" that is more from the space around the coil than the coil itself. Makes you wonder...
I assume you mean an inductor here?
QuoteHowever, the energy in the ringing is more than the energy in the initial impact pulse. How do you differentiate between space ringing and the coil ringing?
Why are you saying there is more energy in the ringing? We are never going to agree on the aether stuff and the "space ringing." I could give you the "textbook" explanation for a coil in self-resonance and you won't consider it the next time a similar issue comes up. And no, I still haven't read the documents that you so kindly uploaded. Sorry.
QuoteNow, suppose you make this coil a toroid, and impulse excite it. If you timed pulses at a particular interval, the first pulse in the coil will meet the last pulse. Will it ring or will it increase the energy in the space around the coil? No textbooks allowed. This is a bench test. HV pulses of say 1kv and a few ns in width. Freq will be a function of coil length and diameter, as well as other parameters.
I'll throw a few more bones on the plate. An impulse creates a radial electric field, and the aether will move perpendicular to this radial electric field. Our REF is moving so the aether is moving with it. Moving aether can induce a conduction current.
No bench here so my comments will be limited. I'd like to see some reports or clips if anybody ever does this. Since you talk about the aether all the time, are you tempted yourself?
The following comment is not directly related to this discussion. About a year ago there was a clip that was done with a LASER and a rotating optical setup that supposedly showed a changing interference pattern "proving" the existence of the aether. This was supposed to be a modern version of the Michelson–Morley experiment. I think the guy was from a German technical institute. That clip was absolutely awful, so bad and I won't mention what was wrong with it. It was very depressing.
MileHigh
MH,
A side note to your side note:
My understanding of the variation of the MM experiment and experimenter was he wasn't out to prove anything about the ether and wasn't of any particular institute. He was an out of work engineer with possible terminal heath problems and too much time on his hands. The results were shocking to him so he shared them.
The public did such a good job of complaining about deflection and gravity he changed the configuration so deflection couldn't be more than a few microns. The results were the same. This is when the German academia in "the major physics institute" (so I was told but never which one) replicated the experiments receiving the same results even though it was performed in a climate controlled room with the proper equipment. There was talk about more results found. The only extra I heard was varying results, even on a fixed base, based upon the time of day.
The last I heard was the experimenter's health had failed him and his experiment continues on more than one campus.
All the talk about gravity deflection, distorting mirrors, etc. were good guesses. I shared my results with a mutual contact in Germany just before I lost contact with him. I didn't use a tripod with wooden arms. I used a horizontal precision lathe and fixture built for turning laser alignment equipment.
Too bad he was so upset about being slammed for just sharing results. I doubt he would have held back on other results before the academics seized control.
Yes Grumpy you are correct
The Buzz !!
Cool guy [very]!
Others are exploring cavitation
in order to keep Farrahs thread clean, I am posting this contribution from iquant here.
Have a look at the following paper when you get some time.
Ultrasonically-excited electrolysis Experiments at Energetics
Technologies:
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DardikIultrasonic.pdf
Experimental results and discussion of 3 electrolysis cells with built in ultrasonic transmitters to induce cavitation in the electrolyte.
A significant amount of excess heat was generated and a very large COP was obtained in several experiments.
Largest excess power: 34 watts
Largest excess energy: 3.5MJ
Largest COP: 3000%
Longest duration of excess heat in a single experiment: 40 days
Chet
PS I heard something about a 7 watt challenge??
Hows 34 watts grab ya!!
cop 3000 % some fudge room in there??
QuoteChet
PS I heard something about a 7 watt challenge??
Hows 34 watts grab ya!!
cop 3000 % some fudge room in there??
Where's the beef? Let's see a standalone unit that can power a 7 Watt bulb indefinitely. Those luxurious prizes are still "up for grabs" LOL
By the way, all this cavitation stuff is rather old hat, and was the plot of a 1996 movie called "Chain Reaction" starring Keanu Reeves, Morgan Freeman and Rachel Weisz. In this 106 minute movie, Keanu discovers that the squeal of his lathe cutting some metal induces cavitation and a fusion reaction in a vessel of heavy water.
He then goes on to find the "magic frequencies" using his keyboard synth.
Of course, the oil boys hearing of this destroy the lab forcing Keanu and his fellow scientist Rachel Weisz to go on the run.
I spoke to Eugene Mallove when the movie came out, before his untimely and mysterious death. He was editor of Infinite Energy Magazine, and was a consultant to the technical details of the movie.
I was a regular subscriber to the New Hampshire publication. It dealt with many of the fusion experiments going on worldwide, mostly by independent researchers.
If you haven't seen it, check it out, definitely a fun movie for FE researchers.
I have the movie "Chain Reaction" and watched it again last week. Pretty good as far as movies go. The depiction of entities that wish to have control of the populous was correct, even if exagerated for a movie. They can only hold you back if you allow them to.
With the above post, I wanted to point out that the fields, be them electric, magnetic, or something else, are in the space around the coil. Empty space has the properties of permeability and permittivity, but we say there is "nothing there". Then why does it have these properties? If empty space is indeed a medium, who is to say that it can not be cavitated?
MH I'm having a hard time getting "The Effect" with your muffler draggin on ashphalt technique,
Think I almost had it once?[back in 73?]
These guys are having the same problem
Quote:
At present there is much interest in this field due to recent, highly controversial claims from Taleyarkhan et al (2002), that they induced nuclear fusion in a sonoluminescing bubble. Attempts to reproduce his results failed but the search goes on...
http://physics.open.ac.uk/~swebb/briefguide.htm [from Wilby][aka W]
Chet
PS
Wilby says
You need to stop watching you tube movies and "Study"!!
PPS
READ THE LINK!!
Chet:
I followed the trail for Energetics Technologies for the fun of it. Last month they moved to the US. Perhaps that explains why their web site is down. Nonetheless, not having a web site in this day and age doesn't look good.
They are claiming excess heat through a cold fusion process. I'd say give them another five years and if nothing happens by then, forget it, it was never real.
It's worth it to read some of the comments here:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/04/energetics-technologies-and-other-new.html (http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/04/energetics-technologies-and-other-new.html)
Probably my most important advice is to do the Google "fraud" search, I do it all the time. Search on "Energetics Technologies fraud" and see what comes up. You will find a link that digs deeper into the famous CBS Sixty Minutes report.
The bottom line is that that right now there is nothing. They cannot pass Ion's "7 watt" test at all. An impressive looking white paper .pdf file with some good looking numbers just doesn't cut it.
On a somewhat amusing note, I found a totally fake "energy research" company's web site when I was poking around looking for info on Energetics Technologies. Here is their mission statement, "Improve electricity generation, transportation efficiency and related applications by innovating fundamental improvements in the use and sources of energy." Sure baby, you love energy long time.
The company has no products, no nothing. Just a fake web site for a fake company looking for some suckers.
http://www.energeticstech.com/index.htm (http://www.energeticstech.com/index.htm)
Shifting gears over to the Pistol shrimp. From the Wilby link:
QuoteThere have been many proposed explanations of this phenomena here I will only briefly discuss some of them;
* Hot spot model : this was first proposed by Putterman and the light production methods were first discussed but Roberts and Wu all of UCLA. In this model a spherical shockwave towards the centre develops that further focuses the energy. The centre of the bubble is extra heated by this shock wave hence "the hot spot". This shockwave rebounds from the centre causing further additional heating of the hot spot and it is proposed that at this point there is light emission from the plasma generated at the centre. Maximum temperatures of 10^8 K have been obtained in models of this theory.
So that's basically what I said.
However, you must not miss the fundamental point: Energy supplied by the shrimp produces a powerful sound wave in the water that may produce some cavitation. Some of the cavitation may produce sonoluminescence. There is no source of energy here at all. Instead, you are looking at how the energy supplied by the shrimp dissipates. You must absorb this fact and not create false garden paths for yourself and others that lead nowhere. It's like watching fireworks and looking at individual sparks in the explosions and speculating if they might be a source of energy. It makes no sense at all.
MileHigh
Not sure about the legitimacy of the company, its claims or Dr. Irving Dardik
http://www.dardik-institute.org/home.asp
See Bio, Superwave theories, publications
Inside Of Energetics Technologies - Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3w9IP1DqLc
http://www.youtube.com/user/EnergeticsTech
is their youtube channel
SuperWave™ Fusion "excess heat" process visualization:
http://www.youtube.com/user/EnergeticsTech#p/u/3/fQ2M_SE67RM
Appears he has gone from respected surgeon to an outcast among his peers.
Check the above out, read between the lines and draw your conclusions.
MH
Quote:
It makes no sense at all.
-------------
No , so far you're explanation is as good as the other "theories" in the above link!
So far!!
However, For guys chasing "sparkly lights" there sure is a hell of a lot of research going on with this?
Perhaps some are trying to advance the understanding beyond the interface between the Ashphalt and the muffler theory{;never picked up any "radiation anomoly" with that one}
Chet
If additional energy is somehow derived from the medium, such as water, then conservation of energy still holds, as I have extracted teh energy from another source. If my cavitation splits an atom, the extra energy comes from the atom and not the enrgy that I have supplied to achieve the cavitation.
an interesting report:
http://www.newenergytimes.com/v2/library/2005/2005VysotskiiV-ObservationAndInvestigation.pdf
Quote
Initial calorimetric tests have shown that the final (output) thermal energy of hot circulating machine oil in some cases exceeds the input electrical energy used for liquid pumping.
These results, including studies of nuclear transmutation and energy release, will be reported in the near future following additional research.
Interesting document on the reentrant jet of vapor bubble and cavitation:
http://caltechbook.library.caltech.edu/1/4/chap3.htm
One of the best document of Roger Stringham on cold fusion using cavitation with interesting view on electrons pinch effect due to the reentrant jet speed of MAC 20
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StringhamRcavitationb.pdf
video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2832269973252011984#
MH , ION
I will post your reply in the thread
Please look
Quote from Kampen at OU
here http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10006.msg263734#new
Put all your effort + time and spare money in this, see below:
http://www.gap-power.com/
THIS WORKS DEFINETLY
--------------
Chet
Chet:
I don't know the user Kampen. Fausto/Plengo pointed this link out about two months ago. It's pure nonsense. I can't be bothered to do a serious technical rebut. What I can say is the people making the clips can only quote Ohm's Law and appear to have no concept whatsoever about inductance, even though they are playing with coils. If I recall correctly they never attempt to make any power in vs. power out measurements. It's a farce where people who seemingly have almost no idea of what they are doing go through the motions of playing with magnets and coils thinking that they have discovered something. Alternatively, it's all a con and the whole thing is staged in an attempt to sell DVDs or, if they are lucky, get someone to pay big bucks for them to build a copy of what you see in the videos.
I don't think you are technical Chet, but more of a sort of "project manager" around the different forums, so I can understand your rationale for looking into this.
Meanwhile, poor Omnibus was spinning his wheels for months and months over Steorn and never got any traction. Steorn is on it's last dying breath and will likely cease to exist as a company with an office and a fax machine. I predict that in 2011 they will be reduced to a website, an email address and a cell phone number. The company will only exist on paper. Now Omnibus is pulling up a 115-year-old article in the New York Times and asking about it?
Meanwhile all of the Ainslie threads at OU are in the process of sliding off the cliff. She never had any data whatsoever to back up her claim and it was her sheer force of wishful thinking that made her believe that she did. If the university students in South Africa get their act together and produce good data, the Ainslie ship will sink under and be forgotten.
What a day in Freedonia!
MileHigh
Thanks MH
This fellow Kampen is a Builder
I asked him to post some pics
He has posted pics of his builds in the past [very skillfully done]
He took a Parabolic dish coated it with Mylar ,focused it on a home made [never know it]
manifold that was designed to maximise the heat to warm oil or water with a homemade "tracker".
Looked like a museum piece.
No Dummy!!
Maybe a ray of sunshine on a cloudy day in Freedonia?
Thanks MH
Chet
While on the note of sinking ships, there have been no posts on the Heins Bi toroid over at "the other site" since Nov 2. Will it ever meet the challenge?
Meanwhile, my soldering iron is fired up and I've got a few of my own circuits to check out.
While some may feel Mh has already achieved OU in the "wind" department! [only kiddin MH]
These fellows can go directly "UPWIND" at 60% of wind speed!
http://www.greentechgazette.com/index.php/transportation/ventomobile-wind-powered-vehicle/
from "techstuff" at OU
Chet
PS
not saying its OU [the car]!:}
just food for thought!! [From Freedonia]
@ION
I also don't know about Thane. Ever since I pointed out some things in his videos and then asked a series of logical questions, no more news from Thane. I guess he is now reworking his theory of operation or he is trying to get a primary core to fit perfectly inside his outer cores. Anyways, I hope he did not take my questions in the wrong way. Thane remains as one of the top on my list of most promising researchers.
For Thane, the thing that sticks out in my mind is his statement that when a wire with current flowing through it creates a magnetic field, according to him the magnetic field represents "free energy." He also said something like "the scientists are too dumb to figure that out."
Sometimes in life there are litmus tests for people. I like to use car analogies sometimes. Supposing you just bought a $200K Mercedes Benz and you bring it to the dealership for its first check-up. You speak to the mechanic and by chance you realize that he doesn't know the difference between a metric and an English ratchet set. You would be completely mortified and in shock and not let your car be serviced and never go back there again.
Thane's comment about the wire and the magnetic field is the same as your mechanic not knowing the difference between metric and English tools. It's that bad and seemingly few of us around here are willing to make tough statements about other experimenters sometimes. I am not trying to be the bad guy I am just pointing out who the real bad guy is. Not to mention his "Mr. Hyde" persona when he makes postings on OU.
So I am barely interested in Thane because he unknowingly failed a serious litmus test and his credibility is zero for me.
MileHigh
@milehigh
QuoteFor Thane, the thing that sticks out in my mind is his statement that when a wire with current flowing through it creates a magnetic field, according to him the magnetic field represents "free energy." He also said something like "the scientists are too dumb to figure that out."
When you consider what thane is trying to do then yes his statement has merit, if the primary magnetic field is not opposed by a seconadary magnetic field but energy is still stored in the secondary coil as an electric field then yes the magnetic field represents free energy. Perhaps you can explain this for me----- what happens if there is no secondary induced current thus no secondary magnetic field to oppose the primary and load it? What happens if the secondary coil acts like an open secondary on induction by the primary but does not discharge the induced open circuit voltage until after all action of the primary magnetic field has ceased?
QuoteSometimes in life there are litmus tests for people. I like to use car analogies sometimes. Supposing you just bought a $200K Mercedes Benz and you bring it to the dealership for its first check-up. You speak to the mechanic and by chance you realize that he doesn't know the difference between a metric and an English ratchet set. You would be completely mortified and in shock and not let your car be serviced and never go back there again.
First if I bought a $200K Mercedes Benz I would kill myself by driving it off the nearest cliff because at that point I would know I am a self-rightous bastard who cares nothing for the environment and that my life now revolves around buying more and more useless shit to impress other people. I drive a Toyota Yaris because I choose to and I also recorded 50 mpg on the first tank, now that is what I call cool.
QuoteThane's comment about the wire and the magnetic field is the same as your mechanic not knowing the difference between metric and English tools. It's that bad and seemingly few of us around here are willing to make tough statements about other experimenters sometimes. I am not trying to be the bad guy I am just pointing out who the real bad guy is. Not to mention his "Mr. Hyde" persona when he makes postings on OU.
I thought we had agreed that you were not going to harass inventors and keep to technical critiques? As well I do not think Thane is a bad guy in any way, how could anyone think a person who has devoted years of his life in pursuit of new clean energy technologies which will improve peoples lives is bad? that's just insane. Right or wrong he is making an effort to do something tangible rather than talk about it like everyone else and I have a great deal of respect for people who continue to try dispite the odds of success. We may not have all the answers, we may be misguided and even foolish at times but our heart is in the right place and we have made an effort and that is what matters.
Regards
AC
AC:
The bottom line as far as I am concerned is that Thane does not know what he is doing. He is off in his own la-la land. In that sense he is the "bad guy" because he is leading other experimenters down a garden path and wasting their time. Time will tell if he does anything with the current round of testing and I am predicting the project will die with no tangible results. Nobody has commented on the flux cancellation issue and it's still there. I am not going there with respect to your setting up a bunch of conditions for the wire discussion and all that. He is dead wrong in his statement about a wire carrying current and it is shocking that he would state that. Your rebutting of the specifics of my analogy is a bunch of hot air that does not add to the discussion. When you say, "I would know I am a self-rightous bastard" and "my life now revolves around buying more and more useless shit to impress other people" you're stepping close to the line again so back off.
Trying to achieve results in a sensible way is what matters to me. If you are not showing good sense and it's akin to a mechanic not knowing the difference between English and metric tools, then personally I would discount the whole project and the person behind it.
MileHigh
Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.11.12, 00:29:41
For Thane, the thing that sticks out in my mind is his statement that when a wire with current flowing through it creates a magnetic field, according to him the magnetic field represents "free energy." He also said something like "the scientists are too dumb to figure that out."
Sometimes in life there are litmus tests for people. I like to use car analogies sometimes. Supposing you just bought a $200K Mercedes Benz and you bring it to the dealership for its first check-up. You speak to the mechanic and by chance you realize that he doesn't know the difference between a metric and an English ratchet set. You would be completely mortified and in shock and not let your car be serviced and never go back there again.
Thane's comment about the wire and the magnetic field is the same as your mechanic not knowing the difference between metric and English tools. It's that bad and seemingly few of us around here are willing to make tough statements about other experimenters sometimes. I am not trying to be the bad guy I am just pointing out who the real bad guy is. Not to mention his "Mr. Hyde" persona when he makes postings on OU.
So I am barely interested in Thane because he unknowingly failed a serious litmus test and his credibility is zero for me.
MileHigh
Here, here, MH.
I have to say that I totally concur with this line of thinking. Everything I read is instinctively subjected to my own version of the litmus test, and should obvious errors become apparent, then alarm bells ring and the whole post, paper or article immediately becomes suspect. Like you, I find that once I'm aware of very fundamental errors, then it's very hard to take anything seriously thereafter. I for one simply can't trust the information or claims from a person or persons when they are seemingly not up to speed on the subject they are discussing or totally oblivious to their own blatant blunders. And this is in no way meant to be a reflection on the person as an individual, good and bad don't come into it, just right and wrong.
This is exactly the way I felt about Chris Eckman's Gas Analysis paper:
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/BrownsGas/Eckman_-_Plasma_Orbital_Expansion_of_the_Electrons_in_Water.pdf
Initially looks good, but is hard to take too seriously due to the many flaws, the obvious ones of which I detailed on Mookie's Electrolyser thread.
Farrah:
Thanks for the comments. In this domain I think that you want to always have your "litmus test radar" on and actively pinging what you read and watch. When I see one of the "big boys" that has a high profile make one of these litmus test failures, I take extra note of it. My whole Bedini investigation had alarm bells going off left and right. I recall John Koorn saying something to the effect that you can't take a battery charged by a Bedini motor and use it to run the same Bedini motor. It's in the 10-coiler thread.
I decided to take the time to dig up John Koorn's statement:
QuoteHowever, one thing you cannot do with the SSG circuit is rotate the source and the charge batteries around, without first "converting" the energy from one form into the other. No one really knows why, but the SSG does not like being run with the same energy that it produces.
This is a nonsensical hocus-pocus statement, a litmus-test-failing statement. The alarm bells sounded when I read that. When you read between the lines I think that the problem is that so much energy is lost in a Bedini motor that the charging battery doesn't have that much energy in it at the end of the charge cycle. This would become readily apparent if you took that charging battery, put it into the source battery's position, and tried to charge a new flat battery.
MileHigh
MH
This is one of the things that should be seen by the experimenters in Farrah's thread.
------------------------------
"Meanwhile a spectacular phenomenon has been developing - a miniature merry-go-round of gas bubbles between the faces of the poles and parallel to them. Incapable of being shown adequately in a time exposure, the effect nevertheless appears plainly as a white blur, when the upper magnetic pole is given a conical shape for photographic purposes. Visual observation, shows striking details. If copper particles, say, have been added to the acidulated water, they will rotate in the same plane as the hydrogen bubbles, but in the opposite direction. For both, the speed of the whirligig depends upon the strength of the magnetic field. Reverse the polarity of the magnet, and each set of particles spins in the opposite direction.
Here are no wild-eyed theories, but perfectly demonstrable facts. Any skeptical physicist has a standing invitation to see them with his own eyes at Dr. Ehrenhaft's laboratory, placed at his disposal in the New York City quarters of the famous Carl Zeiss optical firm. How to account for the phenomena remains a challenge to science, unless Dr. Ehrenhaft's conclusions are to be accepted. See how neatly they would draw an analogy between well-known electric effects and new-found magnetic effects:
From Here
http://www.electricitybook.com/magnetism/
Chet
PS
I must add,I feel that the TPU guys could" see" an awful lot here?
Here's an OU claim for Farrah to look at when she gets a chance!
-----------------------------------------------
From Zerofossilfuel
Quote:
Okay boys and girls. Be watching for my next YouTube video, or visit my Justin.tv channel to check out recorded videos there of some of the fun I had Sunday with my B&S test stand. Sent the following Tweet this morning...
QuoteI DID IT!!! My >2:1 eff ROI held true. With my 5.9 MMW Batt-Cell & 48% ttl pwr conv eff, POSTED NET GAIN TTL SYS EFFICIENCY!!! Plz retweet!
That's correct, folks. Documented, verifiable, repeatable, peer reviewable, honest to goodness NET GAINS!!!
More live tests tonight. Speadsheets of the collected data and edited videos to follow.
Cheers!
Z
----------------------
I asked for links
Chet
QuoteQuoteI DID IT!!! My >2:1 eff ROI held true. With my 5.9 MMW Batt-Cell & 48% ttl pwr conv eff, POSTED NET GAIN TTL SYS EFFICIENCY!!! Plz retweet!
That's correct, folks. Documented, verifiable, repeatable, peer reviewable, honest to goodness NET GAINS!!!
Not sure what to make of this as he has already stated somewhere that he thinks 100% Faraday efficiency would produce 7ml, per minute, per Watt, so what is there to get excited about here? What NET gains? Where?
I've never conversed with Mr Zero, but as far as I can tell he is just playing with standard electrolyser designs in an attempt to increase their efficiency. It appears he uses a PWM merely as a means of input power control and nothing else.
So, I really don't see what all the fuss is about, but perhaps I'm missing something...
Farrah
Zero has not posted anymore info on his "peer review".
@MH please have a look.
This one looks like it really might work?
Chet
PS
The more I watch it the more I like it!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLek_3Hpwus
Chet:
Let's give it its own thread in the magnet motors section. I'll set it up.
MileHigh
Farrah
When you have the time,
This Petty Fellow seems to be playing with Magnetism coils and HH0?
Claims he has the Goods?
http://www.alexpetty.com/2010/11/17/meyers-gas-core-transformer/
Chet
PS
From Freddy's thread at Energetic !
Poynt
Quote:
Is there anything unusual about two tuning forks or two linked pendulums being "active" for longer than if they were isolated and alone?
My impression from a few members is that there is.
.99
--------------------------------
Isn't that impossible??
Chet
Quote from: ramset on 2010.11.23, 13:47:43
Poynt
Quote:
Is there anything unusual about two tuning forks or two linked pendulums being "active" for longer than if they were isolated and alone?
My impression from a few members is that there is.
.99
--------------------------------
Isn't that impossible??
Chet
ramset,
No, it isn't impossible. In fact, it is more likely the 'system' (two or more same energy sources entrained to one another) will remain 'active' with less or more time than all individually totaled. An entrained system simply exchanges energy between parts.
When energy from one part is working 'with' another part the total time is increased with less wasted as heat and no increase in total energy.
When energy from one part is working against another part the total time is decreased with more energy wasted as heat and no increase in total energy.
So, the chances of the overall system remaining active either less time or more time are just because of worse odds.
______________________
The above is the standard answer. Now comes one including some fairly recent discoveries currently being used in digital communication...
______________________
For the same reasons as above there are odds to deal with that still make it more likely there will be no possible energy gain. The added factor is usually called Stochastic and/or Brownian motion. This makes it possible for a linear system to become nonlinear, at least some times.
When nonlinear and an entrained system of multiple frequencies there is a better chance that ambient noise (energy) will also be received/used by the system. This appears as a gain for the system.
So there you have my opinion on why the few real free energy devices (if there are any) always seem to be unmaintainable or quit for no understandable reason and where the energy may originate. This also explains magnetic refrigeration and the few attempts that produced a real decreasing ambient temperature gradient.
On the very rare occasion where this may be the cause, the experimenter, highly educated or not, is simply way out of his/her league for a reasonable explanation.
I wanted to answer Poynt on this but I don't see from where you are quoting him.
WW
WW
Thanks ,
The thread is here [a bit of a duke-aroo right now]
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8825.msg265047#new
Chet
Hmmmm....
If I knew you would post my response for .99 at OU I wouldn't have answered.
Oh well, that just proves how smart I am not :)
Nothing to worry about. I doubt anyone there will understand the comment.
Re. the content of your response; you hit the head on the nail WW (ouch). ;)
Still wondering if anyone there will respond. :-\
.99
Quote from: poynt99 on 2010.11.24, 02:01:05
You hit the head on the nail WW. :o ;)
Still wondering if anyone there will respond. :-\
.99
Do you think they are capable ???
Well, actually most of them are obviously capable of a response ::)
Sorry
I removed it!
Won't happen again!
Chet
No problem - My mistake.
No mistake I hope WW.
Post with confidence that it stays put, but many at OU browse here anyway... ;)
.99
Now Ltseung888 has included 'Bring-In' in his theory title.
I feel honored that my insignificant post about 'long since discovered', 'well proven' and 'used for more than a decade' theories by several great western scientists were actually just discovered and now the IP of the People's Republic of China.
Isn't it about time they claimed the invention of the flashlight? Little bit slow on that one.
Is this an anomoly?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_ssUTRbRRs
Thanks
Chet
There are three possibilities that I can think of.
Before I speculate I am wondering if Lasersaber tried to do the same test without the iron ring being magnetized. It's possible that he would have gotten the same results.
The first possibility is that there is contamination on the surface of the metal, like finger grease, and this sets up a microscopic chemical battery when the probes are in the right place.
Another possibility is that the metal composition itself was slightly different and that set up galvanic currents. i.e.; one probe was touching the bare metal and the other probe was touching the metal plating.
The third is that once the iron ring is energized and the magnetic domains are all lined up, they spontaneously start to slowly loose their organization and re-randomize. Whenever a magnetic domain falls out of alignment, there is a tiny amount of current induced to flow in the metal. You can imagine it being like random pops from a Geiger counter. When the probe tip touches the metal, the localized pressure helps magnetic domains in the region to re-randomize in a small eruption, and the current induced in the metal is also picked up by the multimeter.
MileHigh
http://sparkbangbuzz.com/mag-amp/mag-amp.htm
http://community-2.webtv.net/@HH!58!7B!CC828678B860/SkyVessel/MagneticNeutral/
Said to be what JB is doing ?
Chet
Quote from: ramset on 2010.11.27, 03:20:15
http://sparkbangbuzz.com/mag-amp/mag-amp.htm
http://community-2.webtv.net/@HH!58!7B!CC828678B860/SkyVessel/MagneticNeutral/
Said to be what JB is doing ?
Chet
Chet,
The first link points to a web site with a great deal of valuable information. I seriously doubt it has anything to do with the work of JB and is certainly outside the understanding of almost all of the JB believers. Probably beyond JB as well.
The second link is to the work of an individual who clearly has absolutely no idea what he has posted or the theory of a Bloch wall.
WW
Those links came from here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6834-magtap-harvesting-electricity-magnet.html
Comments from Nenergy ,He seemed to imply the Mag amp connection to JB.
Also I see the 2nd link I posted was botched.and won't go thru as a cut and past ,but its at the above thread!
Thanks for looking !
Do you feel the Mag amp demmo with the 9 volt bat and the headlight is something special [At this point I haven't a clue}
Chet
Quote from: ramset on 2010.11.28, 19:54:49
Do you feel the Mag amp demmo with the 9 volt bat and the headlight is something special [At this point I haven't a clue}
It is special only because the younger crowd and many so called 'well educated' think it is special. The same goes for Dielectric Amplifiers.
Inductors, capacitors, etc. are always considered 'passive' devices. They aren't passive in some designs and almost always more reliable with much higher gain capabilities.
Magamps and Dieamps were used during WWII and the Korean war for autonomous and remote guidance control on heavy payload missiles, along with a few radio communication devices.
Neither are new but very few electronics engineers know of them or how they function. From what I have seen, both are mostly considered 'junk science' by most current 'experts'.
WW
Chet:
A new try with the problem link:
http://community-2.webtv.net/@HH!58!7B!CC828678B860/SkyVessel/MagneticNeutral/ (http://community-2.webtv.net/@HH!58!7B!CC828678B860/SkyVessel/MagneticNeutral/)
The second and third images show alleged Bloch walls in the center of an inductor and in the center of a bar magnet. It's pure nonsense. There is no Bloch wall in the center of an inductor by definition. There is no Bloch wall in the center of a bar magnet. The magnetic domains throughout a bar magnet are all in the same magnetic alignment.
The images in the link show a fake "alternative" view of how magnetic field lines flow in 3D space. I don't know if Bedini originated this fake concept or if he is just exploiting this fake concept. He claims that the "zero point" energy goes into the coil via this non-existent Bloch wall.
Note that the Wikipedia entry for "Bloch wall" has been corrupted, possibly by a Bedini follower:
QuoteA Bloch wall is a narrow transition region at the boundary between magnetic domains, over which the magnetization changes from its value in one domain to that in the next. The magnetization rotates through the plane of the wall unlike the Néel wall where the magnetization rotates in the plane of the wall. For example, a Bloch wall is formed at the center line of a bar magnet where the domains switch north/south direction. An example of a Néel wall transition is shown in the animation below.
Bloch walls are named after the physicist Felix Bloch.
There is no Bloch wall at the center line of a bar magnet and the domains do NOT switch north/south direction.
MileHigh
Thank you gentlemen
Chet
The Neel to Bloch domain wall phase transition in ferromagnetic strips
http://cm.physics.tamu.edu/seminars/K_Romanov_09_19_07.pdf
Does anyone understand these claims ,or the concept ?
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo=2007103020&IA=WO2007103020&DISPLAY=DESC
Thanks
Chet
This is the Barbat patent. I studied it a while back. To keep things organized, will have to request Peterae or POYNT to set up a heading for this in the "Pulsed / Radiant Energy" section, and then we should discuss it there. It is an interesting patent, but I don't totally agree with the author's implementation. I have the US patent which I will also post there with some notes.
The patent itself is a fun read ripe with references.
Sir
Thank you for taking the time to discuss this!
I am embarrassed by my inability to provide you with the transcript of the SM vids to date!
I am having very hard financial times at present and have been trying to finish a prototype of
A product for handicapped children (autism),an all consuming task on basically no budget.
I don,t have the funds to spend on a new pc (so Incan get sound).
I am however quite optimistic that I am almost over the hump financially.
I really want to do this for you !!
I appreciate your patience!
Chet
Trying to post another 2 links??
MH
Sir please when you have a moment?
There seems to be something very unusual going on here,plus a simple experiment to prove the claims.
do you understand this??
Thank you
Chet
Chet:
I only glanced at the documents and can't really comment on them. It would take a real commitment to read them and understand them and sorry, I can't make that kind of commitment.
If I can comment on anything it looks like the document alleges some sort of "magic" configuration for this particular motor and I don't buy it. You see that argument being made for things like Bedini's "Kromrey Converter," one of many Bedini alleged free energy machines. Of course nobody that replicates it can get it to work at all. The response is always that "you didn't build it correctly." The implication is that everything has to be built to the exact dimensions and only then will it work. The truth is that it's all a lie as far as I am concerned. John Bedini "burst on the scene" in 1984 with his Kromrey Converter and there is not a single one in existence doing anything useful 26 years later. How about that?
Incidentally, that pattern was recently repeated by Peter Lindemann with the mysterious "Lockridge Device." He gave the talk and has supplied the full parts list for building a replication! If you didn't see the talk buy the DVD now!!! Not a single person will be able to build a working Lockridge Device free energy machine, mark my words. Within a certain amount of time you will be able to assemble a listing of Peter Lindemann quotes as to why the various replicators failed to make it work. Hey! Why not post in his thread asking him to build a replication himself?! I am almost certain he doesn't have a working model. You can't forget Chet that if Peter is truly telling the truth then he has a device that can start the Age of Aquarius, end famine, and eliminate the need for wars of conquest for wealth, territory, and resources. So what's stopping him???
MileHigh
Quote from: ramset on 2010.12.14, 16:49:57
Sir
Thank you for taking the time to discuss this!
I am embarrassed by my inability to provide you with the transcript of the SM vids to date!
I am having very hard financial times at present and have been trying to finish a prototype of
A product for handicapped children (autism),an all consuming task on basically no budget.
I don,t have the funds to spend on a new pc (so Incan get sound).
I am however quite optimistic that I am almost over the hump financially.
I really want to do this for you !!
I appreciate your patience!
Chet
Chet
Don't worry yourself about the transcript, the work you are doing is also very important. Thanks for refreshing my mind on the Barbat patent.....it looks even more interesting now than it did two years ago.
All is good......Happy Holidays Chet, and best of luck in your work.
More from Quarktoo on marinov
Marinov's perpetual mobile was peer reviewed after he died by his detractors. In the original paper, there was a heart felt acknowledgment by his peers at Berlin University that Marinov was right and they were sincerely sorry they did not listen to him. [paraphrasing]
It was reproduced AND peer reviewed by PHD's in a written and published paper by people that once mocked him. That speaks volumes since they had nothing to gain and everything to lose by doing that.
QuoteAnd if so ,whats up with that? can this Marinov motor go OU?
Of course it can. Marinov used the same principle used in the horseshoe magnets on the Methernitha which he fully understood. A-B effect. Cavitation of an electron stream ring a bell? The smaller portable unit used a bar magnet which can be clearly seen in the photo but the split and polarization is the same.