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Author Topic: Serbian Professor Savic Sonic water heater replication COP 12  (Read 294180 times)
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I read the report and it was really good.  It was well written and he discussed his measurements and how he made his calculations.  It's a good model for other reports.

Quote
CONCLUSION:

Although the equipment used was not of scientific standing the aim of the exercise was not to provide highly accurate COP readings
unless they showed exceptional values over COP+2. Although COP readings varied from 1.05 to 0.87 these could all be between 5-10%
inaccurate due to the equipment and procedural flaws. No matter what the frequency was, nor the gap distance the overall results or
improvements were negligible.

I felt further investigation was needed primarily to address the problem the bell shape and material as well as the amp meter problem.
Perhaps there was a sweet spot that need to be achieved.

His results are in line what you would expect.  The water acts like a resistor, it has a certain resistance per cubic volume.  The smaller the plate separation the higher the current flow.

Quote
TUNING BELLS:

Each bell was affixed to a metal rod which allowed for easy handling against metal sand paper affixed to a high speed hand drill. Small
amounts of the bell were sanded and checked against the SPECTRUM LAV v2.7 b20 audio software making slight and steady grindings
until a harmonic of 50Hz was achieved. If a bell had a frequency of 319Hz it was tuned to 350Hz and a test run. Then tuned again to
400Hz and so on, until the bell had almost no size or shape left.

All bell units were tested at the starting frequencies and then after each temperature reading they were “tuned” to harmonics of 50Hz
ranging between 400Hz up to 950 Hz. Due to the thickness and size/shape of the bells the frequencies could not be tuned to higher
values.

When the bells are immersed in the water, the open-air frequency measurements mean nothing anymore.  In water, the acoustic resonance frequencies would drop considerably.  Some food for thought.

MileHigh
   
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Some food for thought indeed............

I like the small valve [Drive ring} on the Tesla/serbian device for this reason as well as the insistance that the manifold be ultra thin!
seems like something will move in the water??

As well as The hair thin {well gorilla hair] tolerance or it won't work at all!!

Core made another movie will post when up
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment
Chet


An evening Movie
http://www.youtube.com/user/core315185#p/a/u/0/aAhOZKGEzME
   
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From the YouTube posting:

Quote
Line voltage is 110 @ 60 Hz. This is another simple test this time with a temperature probe. BTW nobody is claiming Free Energy. Only the Trolls are bringing this up in an effort to discredit the technology.

As it stands there is much work to do here. This will be perfected. God bless Peter Davey!!

Here is the perfected technology:

http://www.amazon.com/Travel-Immersion-Water-Heater-Voltage/dp/B000AXS0UE



A good bell setup will come very very close to the efficiency of an immersion water heater.  The Peter Davey experiment is a glorified resistor.

When looked through the pages of postings I am certain that I saw some links to Peter Davey material that claimed over unity.

MileHigh
   
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Yes you did MH
I believe it went something like
"It does the same job as a resistive heater [like your pic] but at only 5% of the current"

Cop 20 ? i think/
I suppose i will be buying one of your immersion heaters to compare once I find my stupid European Beer Can.


@EXNIHILOEST!!

Well, that is Unless my friend Exnihiloest can scale the Gap for me with his wicked math skills, then I will start immediately

I will post the PDF that Slovenia has made with both specs European and domestic {50 HZ  60HZ}
The Domestic Gap Specified is dependent on our finding the same can here in the US 65MM i believe.
NG so far

Since the Can measures 65mm and at 50hz  the gap is spec at 2.1 MM the inventor did the math for the same can at 60 HZ and came up with a gap of 1.725MM

If I get a can of  Say 70mm can you do the math for the Gap EX ?? is this enough info to scale the Gap for me?
I will reward your efforts with a replication of this Tesla device??

Hopefully it will do this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsmdSkYEp6M  [Read the text]

Note   The 70MM is just an example

Thank you
Chet

   
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Ordinary water is a conductor. With AC currents, there is almost no electrolysis, the water acts just like a resistance between the two electrodes. With a power more than one KW in such a small volume of water, the water resistance heats much and the water boils. The bubbles are water vapor, not hydrogen or oxygen.
Why should it be puzzling?

I too am struggling to see why people are having problems with this.  I tend to agree completely with Exn.  

Somebody posted above somewhere that water is not a conductor... what? Why do you have no ring main in a bathroom, and why is the bathroom light switch operated by a long cord?  Of course ordinary tap water conducts! Water might not be the greatest conductor and you won't see much happening at say 12 volts, but it will conduct fine and dandy at mains voltage - especially over here at 240 volts!

As Exn states, this is not electrolysis, the water is simply being heated by the current flowing between the inner and outer bells, we are simply seeing the water being boiled. His fuse blows when he immerses it too far into the water because, as he says, more current flows. Why? Obviously because there is a greater surface area in contact with the water and hence the water resistance is reduced. Pretty elementary stuff really.   C.C

   
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Farrah
ultra  Pure water is a dielectric??

and as a matter of fact ....that will be a great test!!

well at least distilled water!!

For the Tesla device.......
Thx sweety
Chet
   
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  Back from a family trip, will be in town for a while and my home lab is fired up... 
I'm willing to try the Davey heating expt, but see conflicting reports.

Ramset posted a PDF of results, which show COP <1 (or about 1)... not too exciting.  But the details are there of "HOW TO" do a build.
EMDevices and AC are doing experiments, which I welcome...  but are you (or anyone) seeing OU at all?  if so, how do your builds differ from the Ramset PDF?  and how are Pout and Pinput measured?   it appears measuring the current is difficult. 

I have now have three Kill-o-watt meters which might serve a function of measuring power in, at least...  How to measure power out to the accuracy needed to establish the efficiency?

   Sorry to jump in without reading the entire thread, but if someone could fill me in on the above, would appreciate it!  Like AC and EMD, I like to do experiments!

(I like to read your posts of research involving your children, AC -- great!)
   
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PhysicsProf
I'd hold off a week to 10 days
We're trying a Tesla design and will have some info Soon!
Over here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/8999-peter-daysh-davey-water-heater-query-13.html

@MH
A Stupid question
All things being equal

Time to Boil
Resistive heat Vs Wammy Jammy Heat
If Wammy Jammy goes Thrice as Fast
Would you be surprized?{could that be possible ,All things being equal except the technique?]


Thanks
Chet
   

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I too am struggling to see why people are having problems with this.  I tend to agree completely with Exn. 

Somebody posted above somewhere that water is not a conductor... what? Why do you have no ring main in a bathroom, and why is the bathroom light switch operated by a long cord?  Of course ordinary tap water conducts! Water might not be the greatest conductor and you won't see much happening at say 12 volts, but it will conduct fine and dandy at mains voltage - especially over here at 240 volts!

As Exn states, this is not electrolysis, the water is simply being heated by the current flowing between the inner and outer bells, we are simply seeing the water being boiled. His fuse blows when he immerses it too far into the water because, as he says, more current flows. Why? Obviously because there is a greater surface area in contact with the water and hence the water resistance is reduced. Pretty elementary stuff really.   C.C

Aye, it is rather elementary indeed.

When electrically conductive impure water
acts as the "resistive heating element" the
heating action is focused into the volume of
water between the electrodes.

It is possible to bring that rather small volume
of water to boiling near instantaneously with
a power input in excess of 500 Watts.

The principle was utilized in years past in small
household room humidifiers which heated water
to boiling with stainless steel electrodes immersed
in a jar of water.

A much larger version of the device is used as a
dummy load when testing AC Generators;  several
hundred kilowatts of power will bring a small swimming
pool to boiling in a fairly short time.

It is perhaps the least costly and most effective kind
of dummy load for certain high power applications

The full sized commercial versions do control current
flow by raising or lowering the electrodes into the
conductive water.  The similarities are striking.


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"The best teachers are those who show you where to look, but don't tell you what to see." - Alexandra k. Trenfor.
   
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PhysicsProf
I'd hold off a week to 10 days
We're trying a Tesla design and will have some info Soon!
Over here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/8999-peter-daysh-davey-water-heater-query-13.html

[snip]
Thanks
Chet

Very helpful -- thanks  Chet.   O0

Now, could someone fill me in on the 'CRYSTAL BATTERY" that I'm hearing about?  perhaps a url for that also?
   Seems to me there is a LOT of interesting research going on right now!  ;)

Steve
   
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Farrah
ultra  Pure water is a dielectric??

and as a matter of fact ....that will be a great test!!

well at least distilled water!!

For the Tesla device.......
Thx sweety
Chet



By 'ultra-pure water' I assume that you mean water without any contaminants, so it is just H2O, right?  The problem is, that even without contaminants, water continually self-ionises. So even distilled water will conduct to a certain degree, and once a bottle of distilled water is open to the atmosphere, dust and atmospheric gases will become dissolved in it and so it becomes contaminated very quickly.

I have experimented with de-ionised water in electrolysers and have had it conducting to some degree - it's impossible to stop it.

Quote
It is possible to bring that rather small volume
of water to boiling near instantaneously with
a power input in excess of 500 Watts

As Dumped states here, and Exn stated above, the guy in the video has quite a lot of power across a very small area of water. He was blowing 10 amp fuses! Over a kilowatt of power being dissipated into the water between the two bells.  Why anyone thinks there is anything magical or mysterious going on here completely dumfounds me.

MH shows a picture of a heating element that drops in a cup to heat the water. The only difference between that and this dangerous bell experiment is that the resistance is confined to within the element and so electrically insulated from the water, ie, it is safe and unlikely to kill you - which can't be said for the bell.  The heating element has long superseded sticking open mains electrodes into water - probably because of the high mortality rate. I find it utter madness to be playing with mains voltage with exposed terminals in a cup of water!

If this was anything to do with sonic heating, you would not require mains voltage, and you would see results from safe voltages.

Chet for years you have said that you were going to replicate this that and the other, but it has never happened. I assume that this appeals to you because of its simplicity and ease of construction (even though you do appear to be struggling to get hold of a simple beer can). However, given your clear lack of understanding on these things, I feel that your posts may inexplicably and abruptly cease if you start playing with mains voltages and water!  :'(
   
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Farrah
I'll be Careful ,Plus We'll see if "Cavitation and Frequency" Changes things in Fluids? as far as "Speed to heat"

THX
Chet

   
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Farrah
I'll be Careful ,Plus We'll see if "Cavitation and Frequency" Changes things in Fluids? as far as "Speed to heat"

THX
Chet



You are on the wrong - and dangerous - track here, this is simply resistive heating, with the water acting as it's own heating element. You are limited to the 50 - 60Hz mains frquency and 110v - 240v mains voltage, there is simply nothing to tune!!  It's all general ignorance compounded by a poor understanding of basic science - the blind leading the blind down the alleyway of death if you ask me!

I don't put too much faith in that Witts demo, but you will note that he claims to be heating the water with a little PP3 9 volt battery.  If you are going to do anything, that is the route you should be following as if his claims are true, then resistive heating does not come into the equation. And, if sonic heating and cavitation is your goal, you don't need mains voltages and high current.

But I fear I'm wasting my words - perhaps you will see the light when your damp, sweaty hand accidentally contacts an exposed live terminal, and your missus wonders why the house lights have suddenly gone out!
« Last Edit: 2011-10-10, 16:02:09 by Farrah Day »
   
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HHHMMMMmmmmmm
Well I am going to try this,if only because the man ythat is guideing us has it working
Perhaps its only Moving the water constantly past the resistor ?,
But you are correct I have No idea??
If It turns out it raises the water temp faster ?
Who Knows?? But we will See!

Farrah
I started life Tuning airplanes at 15, Standing on the fuselage while the Prop Screamed inches away making adjustments and Checking  Systems![under a watchful eye}

And that was one of the Safer times of my Life..

Knowing where the Danger is makes this so very safe,these fellahs that Transmit Frequencies  of unknown strengths In Bursts.......That scares me !!

THX
Chet
   
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I'll just back up Farrah's comments, the whole thing is silly and scary and very dangerous.  I try not to repeat myself in my postings but since the "tuning" is what a lot of people believe in, I will repeat it again, there is no tuning for this experiment.

There is just no point in looking for something that's not there.  Three years ago someone spent four months and $3000 investigating this and concluded that the whole thing was bunk.

Acoustic resonance will not magically create heat.  Resonance is just a means of storing energy supplied from somewhere else, it doesn't create energy out of nothingness.  Plus to repeat myself again, nobody has a clue what the resonant frequencies for the two bells are under water, or what the resonant frequency for the overall beaker/water/bell system is.  Plus I am assuming that nobody (at least from what I am seeing so far) has a way to sweep the high-voltage high-current electrical excitation frequency through a frequency range anyways.

Finally, sometimes you have people whose working knowledge and experience with electricity and electronics is at the prekindergarten level.  The last thing people like that should be doing is connecting fixed-frequency mains power to a pair of makeshift metal bells or beer cans and sticking them into a glass of water in search of "resonance."  It's just crazy.

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MH
You inspire me!!
Thank you
Chet
   
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Chet:

Play your "reverse-psychology inspiration" game if you want.  The facts on the ground and the cautionary warnings still apply.

When I was 20 I worked in an amusement park and the ride I was working on had a brand new all-chrome sign with a 4-circuit chaser light system.  We soon discovered that one of the circuits had a hot wire that was shorted to the inside of the tubular metal sign so it was dangerous.  I knew what a 120 volt AC "tingle voltage" felt like across my dry fingertips so I thought that I would try something similar with the chrome sign.  I held a grounded metal microphone in my hand and I slowly and gingerly went to touch the shiny chrome tube with the tip of my middle finger.

I was expecting a light tingling-burning sensation but to my "shock" my hand convulsed and I felt more pain for 1/10 of a second than I had ever felt in my life.  I dropped the microphone due to the involuntary muscle contractions and the pain reflex action.  Oh my God did it hurt like hell and I was really shocked because I was doing my best to just feel a tingle voltage and instead I electrocuted my hand.  If that went through my chest I probably would have died.

MileHigh
   
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...
Yes Exnihiloest Resistive heat is no surprize....
The time it takes Davey to heat {instantly apparently]
that seems interesting!!
...

Thanks for the pdf. Therefore case closed, this conventional experiment is in agreement with the theory.

We see rapidly bubbles due to boiling water. But at the begining not all the water is boiling when we see the bubbles, only the small volume between the electrodes where the current is flowing. The water between electrodes boils almost instantly due the tremendous electrical power for such a very small volume, and then it heats the rest of the water.

   
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Look at this picture of this bozo:



Supposing you put your bell setup into the water and turn on the power.  Let's pretend it's the first time you are doing this.  Let's suppose that all sorts of chemicals leech out of the bell setup, things like coatings on the metals, etc.  So the water is much more conductive than you think.

You can see that there is a chance that water splashing over the edge of the glass could make electrical contact with your hand.  If for whatever reason your other hand, which is holding the metal apparatus, is in contact with the mains neutral line, then mains power would be shorted straight through your chest which could kill you.

MileHigh
   
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Yes but he lived to be like a 170 because the device Does VOODOO to the water!!


I have the Guys from waterEnegy1 sending me more stuff I don't understand
@Farrah Always enjoys these Movies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0o9uT-7ASk&feature=email

They made this very wild claim recently

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsmdSkYEp6M


Chet
   
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Dumped:

Quote
A much larger version of the device is used as a
dummy load when testing AC Generators;  several
hundred kilowatts of power will bring a small swimming
pool to boiling in a fairly short time.

It is perhaps the least costly and most effective kind
of dummy load for certain high power applications

That's very interesting and it makes perfect sense.  Thanks for that information.  It relates back to big free energy claims where people state that their system outputs 50 kilowatts but there is no 50 kilowatt load in sight.  How the hell do you even set up a 50 kilowatt load in the first place?

MileHigh
   

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The brine loadbank brings back some memories.

50kW is nothing. I have 6.2gW of resistive load alone in the next building  :) 5300kVAR load is mixed in with those banks.

The U.S. Navy used elements on a boom lowered into the brine to vary load during generator tests. 4160 would produce an ominous glow after the sun went down.

I have serious doubts many OU enthusiasts have access to such facilities even down to around 100kW.

 


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"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   
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How about a link to the book?
Sorry. I thought it was generally known:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter14.pdf

Paul-R
   
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Chet, I assume you're taking the piss.  From your youtube link
Quote
FEEL FREE TO POST YOUR COMMENT, AT SO LONG ITS CONTRUCTIFE AND HELPFULL WE WILL POST THEM....

THANKS

Is the guy a non-English speaker or just illiterate? Or does it really matter?

I have trouble taking anyone serious when they can't even string together a simple sentence. Pointless video allied with utter gibberish. Yes I love these videos.  C.C
« Last Edit: 2011-10-11, 10:30:47 by Farrah Day »
   
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Sorry. I thought it was generally known:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter14.pdf

Paul-R

The Peter Davey part of the link to the book only goes to emphasise that this really has nothing at all to do with anything resonating at 50Hz or 300Hz, 400Hz, or whatever - just simple resistive heating. There is also a nonsense sentence about 1.24 volts of a 220 volts ac mains doing electrolysis - absolute utter garbage I'm afraid. Simply the scribblings of an uneducated mind. Laughable.
   
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