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Author Topic: Mostly Magnet Motor and Generator Coil Research  (Read 46459 times)

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Hi Peter.

Wow, ok, thanks for that test. Good thing we did that.

Keep hope though. I've been doing quite a bit of reading and there is indeed a bi-directional version of a SSR, what I would call a TRUE SSR. Also, I have come upon 3 chips that can be used to drive external MOSFETs.  ;D This is great news. They are made by CLARE.

2 of the chips draw off a little from the supply, but I'm, still looking into them. They switch quite fast. The other version does not draw any power, but it switches relatively slow, around 5ms. This last version is great for DC apps, but won't be fast enough for these motor designs.

Also, there are affordable options out there, albeit not many. My research on ebay brought up this one for instance (which I did buy). I also found and bought a cheaper transistor-output version from Taiwan.

They sell for about $65 on the net, and they are $15 here. The trouble is, I have not been able to find a spec sheet on them, even though the manufacturer refers you to one. It seems only to have their AC relays spec'd though.

.99
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Sorry for the interupt

But 5 watts in 100 watts out using coils and magnets

http://www.gap-power.com/.

Chet


Hi Chet.

A very nice build Mr. Porter did there, but unfortunately he made one little assumption that renders most of his calculations incorrect. Do you know what it is?

.99
   
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Sorry for the interupt

But 5 watts in 100 watts out using coils and magnets

http://www.gap-power.com/.

Chet


This is exactly the magnacoaster patent ( ok almost exactly  ;D )
« Last Edit: 2010-02-22, 01:56:17 by darkspeed »
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
This is exactly the magnacoaster patent

I would gather this involves adding a second pickup/output coil for induced EMF?

What were your results with this DS?

.99
   
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99
Some comments from John Bedini regarding this "Re-gauging phenomena"

http://pesn.com/2010/02/20/9501617_GAP-Power_magnetic_amplification_and_neutralization_illustrates_regauging/

Chet
PS regarding your question.

I haven't a clue ?
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Hi Chet.

I can't say I agree with JB that this GAP unit is anything special.

What Art overlooked is the fact that he assumes the input power to his EM coil remains constant no matter if the magnet is there or not (listen to the 60 Hz hum noise levels and compare with the coil alone, and in amplification mode...there is a huge difference; louder means a lot more current). Lenz still applies when the parameters are dynamic, as in the case of his cheap "noisy" power supply, and when the coil units are in operation in the motor.

Either I'm wrong, and this is easy as pie, or I'm correct and it explains why we're not all using this to power our homes already.

.99
   
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I would gather this involves adding a second pickup/output coil for induced EMF?

What were your results with this DS?

.99

This GAP design is exactly ( ok almost exactly  ;D ) the design in the magnacoaster patent... The version of the patent that involves rotation - not the motionless one

Coil shunts neo on approach then changes polarity (or turns off ) allowing the two neos to repell each other ( or attract )

Can be used as Attraction GAP or Repulsion Magnacoaster
« Last Edit: 2010-02-22, 01:57:02 by darkspeed »
   
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What Art overlooked is the fact that he assumes the input power to his EM coil remains constant no matter if the magnet is there or not (listen to the 60 Hz hum noise levels and compare with the coil alone, and in amplification mode...there is a huge difference; louder means a lot more current). Lenz still applies when the parameters are dynamic, as in the case of his cheap "noisy" power supply, and when the coil units are in operation in the motor.


It does change, both the resistance of the coil and the inductance of the coil when the mobile magnet moves past. less resistance more current..
I know because i have done this test to hunt down an strange result in one of my own setups


I moved my other comments out of his bench to this location:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=133.msg1965#msg1965


« Last Edit: 2010-02-21, 23:54:55 by darkspeed »
   
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Hmmm
Really pissed me off when I came back to the forum and found you gone 99
[Grumpy too [but that wasn't as surprising]]
and this is an example of why[I get pissed off]
Your contributions always saved countless hours of nonsense for the community.

Now the Boys are gettin ready to "chomp" on this one.
Seems like the "holy grail"

DS do you mind if I quote you at the thread?[magnocoaster comment}
Here [started by user Larry C]
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8796.msg229491#new
 Chet

« Last Edit: 2010-02-21, 23:55:59 by ramset »
   
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Sorry for the interupt

But 5 watts in 100 watts out using coils and magnets

http://www.gap-power.com/.

Chet

Thanks Chet for bringing this to my attention. This is right up my alley ;)

Hi Chet.

A very nice build Mr. Porter did there, but unfortunately he made one little assumption that renders most of his calculations incorrect. Do you know what it is?

.99

Hi .99

looks like things got a little busy here today ;D... I was away all day working on a paying job.

First thing is, I think Mr. Porter has done an amazing job at everything and my hat off to him for sharing.

One thing that came to mind when watching the videos is what about the CEMF (generator effect) I guess we could use toroids to reduce it :D

I pickup 4 of these last night: http://cgi.ebay.com/Solid-State-Relay-SSR-5-220V-DC-40A-Heat-Sink_W0QQitemZ160406166183QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2558f3daa7  at $14.99 with heatsink and delivered.  It's hard to pass up.

Luc

   
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Hello Peter,

I would like to thank you once more for your kind generosity, packaging and mailing me the cores and solid state relay. I received them on Friday, Feb. 26th

I'll be winding these soon and posting my experiment results.

Luc
   

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Buy me some coffee
Great news Luc, hope it goes well  ;)

Peter
   
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Hi Luc,

No, you want the DC relays....MOSFET switch type.

There is one here, but they want $25 for shipping. You can ask if they will do USPS, which should be much cheaper.

The cores shouldn't be that expensive, but I haven't found them yet.

.99

Hi .99,

I received the four 220v DC SSR I ordered from ebay and tested them. I'm quite disappointed :(... it seems they are only suited for very low frequency switching. I was lucky to get it as high as 200hz with a 50% duty cycle but I had to use my 555 PWM at 1% duty cycle to get the SSR down to 50% duty at 200Hz.  These SSR seem to be very sluggish to switch off. I was expecting much better performance than this ???

Is this normal?

Luc

   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Hi Luc.

Judging by the switch on/off time spec given in the ad (<10ms), then it is no surprise 200Hz is the max frequency. That's unfortunate. Have you confirmed they are in fact DC relays (i.e. meant for DC loads)?

I have received two different DC SSR's, but I have not tested them yet. I will report back here when I do.

.99

PS. You'll find other uses for those relays if they don't work for your gobo (but they should, i.e. you only need about 100Hz I believe).
   
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Hi Luc.

Judging by the switch on/off time spec given in the ad (<10ms), then it is no surprise 200Hz is the max frequency. That's unfortunate. Have you confirmed they are in fact DC relays (i.e. meant for DC loads)?

I have received two different DC SSR's, but I have not tested them yet. I will report back here when I do.

.99

PS. You'll find other uses for those relays if they don't work for your gobo (but they should, i.e. you only need about 100Hz I believe).

Hi .99

thanks for the reply. Yes they are DC 220 volt 40amp relays.

You want to buy some?

Luc
   

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Luc,

Are you sure that DC means the output rating and not the input.  I have had to deal with solid state relays for many years, when they say DC 220 Volt 40 Amps they mean the input is DC usually like 3 to 32 volts DC input and the output is 220 Volts AC at 40 Amps.  These relays will not work with a DC output load but there are special SSR's that will handle a DC load but I do not believe what you have will, the output devices on a relay like you have is usually back to back SCR's (or Triac) and with a DC load they will latch on and not control anything. Also speed is terrible, these type relays are built for 60 HZ use. There is one other thing you should know, there are two types of SSR's, one will only turn on at zero crossing and the other type will turn on at any time (phase control relays) do you know what type you have?  On Crydom relays phase control types are designated by a -10 at the end of the part number. Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: 2010-03-15, 18:21:19 by Room3327 »


---------------------------
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"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."  Edmund Burke
   
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Those ss realys are completely misleading . Dont buy them unless there is a complete spec sheet available .

Most all of them have been designed to replace relays and the spike protection required slows them down so much.

I work in railways and there are very few ss relays in use any where ..track lightning  strikes takes them out in no time.
Every so often a engineering group offers a new solution with ss .. They soon are looking else where to sell their so called hardend switching arrangements.

They can work if complete isolation can be achieved but it is rare to find them in critical use.

There are many forms of static discharges that we will never really understand except that relays survive most of them.

When you travel by train , have confidence that it is mechanical interlocking relays keeping you safe. All of the electronics is optoisolated  and fibe optic coupled even for 10 meters distance

Its kind of funny  that with all our tech and advances we still cant source  a decent electronic switch that out performs  a simple relay.
IGBT's with isolated drivers seems the best option. tubes for higher voltage.

Yet we can have 2 million transiistors on a postage stamp ..

We have computers running a 3.5 gigahertz yet have difficulty making a simple switch any where near that.

The hunt continues..........
   
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Luc,

Are you sure that DC means the output rating and not the input.  I have had to deal with solid state relays for many years, when they say DC 220 Volt 40 Amps they mean the input is DC usually like 3 to 32 volts DC input and the output is 220 Volts AC at 40 Amps.  These relays will not work with a DC output load but there are special SSR's that will handle a DC load but I do not believe what you have will, the output devices on a relay like you have is usually back to back SCR's (or Triac) and with a DC load they will latch on and not control anything. Also speed is terrible, these type relays are built for 60 HZ use. There is one other thing you should know, there are two types of SSR's, one will only turn on at zero crossing and the other type will turn on at any time (phase control relays) do you know what type you have?  On Crydom relays phase control types are designated by a -10 at the end of the part number. Hope this helps.

Hi Room3327,

yes!  I'm sure they are DC

eBay Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/Solid-State-Relay-SSR-5-220V-DC-25A-Heat-Sink_W0QQitemZ390162990872QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad786c718

Luc
   
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Those ss realys are completely misleading . Dont buy them unless there is a complete spec sheet available .

Most all of them have been designed to replace relays and the spike protection required slows them down so much.

I work in railways and there are very few ss relays in use any where ..track lightning  strikes takes them out in no time.
Every so often a engineering group offers a new solution with ss .. They soon are looking else where to sell their so called hardend switching arrangements.

They can work if complete isolation can be achieved but it is rare to find them in critical use.

There are many forms of static discharges that we will never really understand except that relays survive most of them.

When you travel by train , have confidence that it is mechanical interlocking relays keeping you safe. All of the electronics is optoisolated  and fibe optic coupled even for 10 meters distance

Its kind of funny  that with all our tech and advances we still cant source  a decent electronic switch that out performs  a simple relay.
IGBT's with isolated drivers seems the best option. tubes for higher voltage.

Yet we can have 2 million transiistors on a postage stamp ..

We have computers running a 3.5 gigahertz yet have difficulty making a simple switch any where near that.

The hunt continues..........

Hi Lindsay,

yes!!! the hunt continues :P

Thanks for sharing your experience with this technology limitation.

Luc
   
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