Project: Self running coil and magnet

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Slider2732

Project: Self running coil and magnet « on: 2012-02-07, 07:59:49 »

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As described in the recent email swaps between us, this is a project which Steve wishes to see replicated.
So, here is the thread concerning that device

For reference, here is the original video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rySqz7Hgpkk

The much more closely matched components for an actual replication are now on their way.

I welcome any pointers, thoughts, directions to take, testing procedures and criticism.

Here are the build pictures of the pre-replication test device, which now features pins as the core to test out that core material and as used in the original.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/slider27/Build1-1.jpg

Project: Self running coil and magnet

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/slider27/Buildrunning.jpg

Project: Self running coil and magnet

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/slider27/100_0003.jpg

Project: Self running coil and magnet

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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

PhysicsProf	Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #1 on: 2012-02-07, 16:13:27 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3249	Thanks for your work on replicating this device, Mark! I have had sent to you two sizes of the magnetized spheres; hopefully one will work. They say to be careful to not let the poles hit each other hard, as this will damage the plating.

Slider2732

Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #2 on: 2012-02-07, 18:24:26 »

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That's great Steve

It's difficult to see the exact size in the original video and, indeed, we may find that one sphere works better, or at all.

Whoever uploaded the original video used many techniques that make sense.
Having read over and over about the usefulness of multiple piece cores, we see that pins have been used. The pins indeed fire the LED just as well as known good brass rods (coathanger pieces). In turn, the brass runs comparably to the copper covered welding rods that Bedini uses in his motor kits. Over time they may pick up too much residual magnetism, but that may be one reason for the North/South ball. A North only Bedini type rotor would slowly affect those pins. Exotics such as Mu metal may be best, but we can't rubbish the availability of simple dress pins !
The reed switch will have to be at such a height and distance from the coil, that it fires exactly on the tuning spot. In tests of the pre-replication, a drag is experienced unless set perfectly...that's fundamental to this system. The collapsing field has to equate to a push of the sphere.So, in the video we see the assembly jutting forward from the coil.
The LED is seen to flash, but not too brightly. As close to the sphere as the coil is, the more energy can be imparted back to the sphere, but, the more traditional drag it will experience and need for exacting placement. Again, another sweet spot of operation to actually work.

In the original video, the sphere spins around and often runs away from the coil. I'm going to try suspending the sphere via a pin with neodymium above that. In such a way, the ball won't move off around the mirror surface and there won't be a mirror anyway underneath. Stability should be greatly improved as well as possibly even less friction.
To start the ball rolling, as it were, I might use a traditional pulse motor to spin the sphere to correct running speed. Then, switch over to the coil. Otherwise, a quick flick of the hand and the ball may simply fly off the pin !

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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Slider2732

Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #3 on: 2012-02-09, 01:44:56 »

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Progress
------------

Today saw the arrival of the sphere magnets, kindly supplied by Professor Jones.
The 5/8th's one seems to be a good approximation to the one seen in the video.

Thoughts turned to the slightly concave mirror, on which the sphere will spin.
Not having such a mirror, my wife and I will be zooming about the local stores tomorrow to see if one can be found. In the meantime, something else will have to suffice for early tests with the spheres.....
So, I picked up my coffee cup and was on the way to the kitchen, while also wondering about a slightly deeper concave glass like surface to hold the ball. The video shows the magnet zipping about and that situation needs to be addressed for smoother running.
Aha! On top of our 1940's 4ft or so Firestone radio was a Westclox 'Little Ben', which I intend to fix, to compliment the others in my small collection.
Guess what ? the front glass/plastic cover appears to be perfect for the task !

Of slightly smaller dimensions than the mirror and with slightly more of a concave quality, the cover will also be pristine on the reverse side, where the clock hands are.

Here are the magnets and the Westclox, before removal of the front piece.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/slider27/100_0010.jpg

Project: Self running coil and magnet

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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Slider2732	Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #4 on: 2012-02-09, 05:05:38 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1602 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	it turned out that the bezel is made of glass and it is indeed perfect on the reverse Shown now atop a former RadioShack solder reel, secured with Fix-All glue. Makes for a good stable base. Project: Self running coil and magnet --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Slider2732

Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #5 on: 2012-02-09, 22:46:58 »

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Shopping trip done, we couldn't find a single concave mirror !
Actually, we did find one, in the opticians where my wife made an eye exam appointment - about 18" of a thing, gloriously sat there with a look but don't touch quality. Was stood there, while my wife made the appointment and imagining a bowling ball sized neo spinning around on it

.

Dollar Tree produced 2x decent enough mirrors though, of conventional non-concavity. Also picked up a 3 superbright white LED closet lamp. I like 'em, those LED's are to be found on many of my projects, as well as the on/off switches.
A non project related battery toothbrush was also found in the store, included is an AA battery and the motor will be disassembled to check out the wire gauge. Fast running out of RF-300 cassette motors here for building small Tesla towers etc, so these might prove useful.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/slider27/100_0015.jpg

Project: Self running coil and magnet

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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Chet K	Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #6 on: 2012-02-09, 23:07:29 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4752	mark has anyone corresponded with Wilby? thx chet

PhysicsProf	Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #7 on: 2012-02-10, 19:11:56 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3249	Good progress, Mark! keep up the good work.

Slider2732

Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #8 on: 2012-02-11, 08:37:34 »

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Cheers chaps

It is indeed a mirror of another video - on reviewing, it's now quite plain.
The original uploader was zeropoint132. In fact, he has a couple of designs on his channel that also seem relevant.
Here's one vid and his channel : http://www.youtube.com/user/ZEROPOINT132#p/u/5/oapdlp6bMBg

I think the 'magic spray' he uses is the same silicon lube stuff that Rusty uses in this video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsobVuzUSiE
If the whole thing seems to be near and looking promising, then i'll find some of that

If it doesn't, then an email to zeropoint132 for advice will be a good idea.. Mind you, if it does work then i'll email him anyway with a huge thanks !

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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Allcanadian

Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #9 on: 2012-02-11, 16:48:44 »

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@Slider2732

Quote

I think the 'magic spray' he uses is the same silicon lube stuff that Rusty uses in this video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsobVuzUSiE
If the whole thing seems to be near and looking promising, then i'll find some of that

I have always found it odd that many times we never truely understand how efficient something is until it is compared directly to something else in a relative sense. At one time I thought my brushless motors had great bearings and few losses because they could rotate ten or eleven times when given a small push while a standard off the shelf 1hp AC motor may rotate only once or twice within a few seconds. Then I levitated the same 1hp AC motor's rotor on passive magnetic bearings I invented and it rotated for over 20 minutes with the same initial impulse as before. I found this hard to rationalize as my mind kepy telling me this should not happen in a normal sense however later it was understood that what we consider as normal never was, we have simply become used to doing things poorly and come to accept it as the norm. In this respect it became apparent that many of the limitations I believed were inherent in the devices I was building were imaginary and this was a turning point for me as it was understood that the single biggest issue we must contend with is not so much a mechanical one but psychological in nature.

Consider this, if your rotor was levitated in a vacuum it may not stop rotating for many months or even years if the vacuum was near perfect ----- years. As well it is not as if this is not attainable in fact it is quite easy as we know magnetic bearings exist and we know vacuum tubes exist as we see them every day in the form of incandescent light bulbs. So why is it we cannot seem to wrap our minds around the concept that most all the answers we seek may be in plain sight?, they may be right in front of us yet they are latent or hidden from us in some way. Just imagine, in one moment in time we may believe a rotor would seem to be bound by laws which must bring it to rest within a few seconds and in the next moment we believe there no reason why this same rotor could not continue spinning for years. I still find this odd to this day which clarifies many things as I have seen certain things, I have built certain things, and yet I still have trouble rationalizing the very things I have built simply because they fall well outside the norm. It is a terrible thing to have trouble accepting something right in front of us in plain sight which we have built intentionally with our own two hands and I believe this is the extent of the problem which must be overcome.

If this is of interest to you here is something else to consider, I started with a 1" x 1/2" N50 neo magnet which I levitated in place with a biased coil, that is the magnet to be levitated was below the coil and above the coil was another magnet which was meant to attract the levitated magnet counteracting the force of gravity. A hall effect sensor sensed the position of the levitated magnet and controlled a mosfet to energize the coil. At which point something peculiar happens, if the force exerted by the upper biasing magnet on the lower levitated magnet is perfectly equal to the force of gravity then the system is in balance. At this point no input from the coil is required and in fact the coil is simply a means to counteract external forces which may disrupt the equilibrium of the balanced system. As Ampere once said, -- no energy is required to maintain a field only to create it --, I would add that it only takes energy to change the magnitude of the field. Which leaves us with the notion which I have proven for myself that any magnitude of mass can be levitated with static fields and no energy is required so long as the system remains in balance. As such the concept of weight is an illusion of sorts inherent in the space we occupy and consider the norm however in space, outer space, weightless-ness is the norm so we simply balance the external forces to imitate the conditions present in outerspace. This not only removes the friction inherent in our bearings but also the friction which rises drastically with increasing RPM and loading, a fully loaded bearing at high speeds can waste more than 25% of the input energy.

Regards
AC

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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

Slider2732

Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #10 on: 2012-02-12, 00:52:59 »

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@AC
I found myself nodding in agreement with All Concepts that you discussed above

A couple of years ago, members over at RCGroups were building brushless outrunners from CD-Rom drive motors. Those were the days before China could knock them out at what my wife calls a buck three eighty. Enthusiasts would take the old outer can and replace the magnets, rewind the motor (star or delta) and fly around 7oz models with the resultant creations. The important point, was that they considered the original ring magnet to be naff, unusable or, at best only able to power a couple of oz's model. Well guess what ?, Slider here hadn't read about the uselessness of the original magnet rings and built up a few motors...I simply found that the lighter the silvered finish of the original rings dictated the strength of the final motor.

Here's one video, where I fly a 7oz repaired converted aircraft that was bought from a salvage store, with my very first such motor (the Estes Hyper-X was a weak bi-plane and not a popular model, which I converted to a single wing and fitted out with replacement R/C gear. The $4 price was based on there only being the airframe in the returns box).
My point being, if you haven't read that it doesn't work, then sometimes it does !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4itvFrdEHU
(this was the last video made with our old camera and isn't very good, but you can see the plane even does some great loops at about 2mins).
Also noteworthy, are that the aircraft used 'too heavy' a 7 cell Ni-MH pack and the 'wrong sized', 'too small' 5x3 propeller from a 'toy' airplane. All of which were determined after many joyous, relaxing, 7 minutes flights with that aircraft to mean the plane would never fly.
It's how we ourselves tackle a project that may dictate the result from it.
The above project demonstrated, to me, the powerful method of going ahead with something that you yourself believe will work, before finding from others that it won't !

I'd intended to write up the build progress of today and will do in a separate post shortly. But wished to discuss another point you made about levitating and friction.
I consider the ball as used in the original video of this project to be a non exacting method of keeping everything running, should it actually run. So, some ideas are being explored and levitation is one of them.
Received today in the mail was a very cheap ($7.99) levitating assembly, that looks like one of those Mendocino types. Btw, they are wonderful and very well made - something which the Amazon.com reviews would have you believe not to be the case.
If magnets are arranged on the middle of the rotor and the coil placed at the side, the effect may be a similar almost frictionless assembly comparable to the neo sphere. Such rotors are apparently difficult to spin up to a good speed with the hand, so, I intend to place a mini Bedini circuit on one side and the project coil on the other. Once run up to speed using the Bedini, it will be removed and the project coil will take over

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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Slider2732

Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #11 on: 2012-02-12, 01:32:37 »

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Build progress
-----------------

First of all, apologies for the amount of photo's, I wanted to show exactly what i've done, as things have moved along.

Will everything arriving to begin a better build and with thanks again to Steve for supplying many materials for this build - here we go

Here's the 30 gauge magnet wire:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/slider27/100_0016.jpg

Project: Self running coil and magnet

A 1lb spool of incredibly dubious quality, as reviewed on Amazon.com, but at $17.31 represented about a 50% saving over other coils found online. In fact, the wire is well crafted, wound fine for those of us who know not to yank and pull on a spool. With the spool placed vertically and lightly held against one leg of your person as you sit, the wire comes away cleanly while winding.

Here is the coil form. The largest diameter drinks straw (from McDonalds) gives a good approximation to the inner core diameter as shown in the original video.
I then cut a clear plastic circle for one end and a piece of DollarTree foamboard for the other. The foamboard has a central hole, for the straw to run through and into which the nails can be fitted. In the original video, he uses a felt piece to stop any unwanted clangs and smashes against the nails based core material. By using the plastic, no harm can come to the sphere, because the nails sit behind it.
Using the foamboard allows for the start windings to be inserted through it and for those wires to not become chaffed or broken during connecting up and any alterations.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/slider27/100_0019.jpg

Project: Self running coil and magnet

A picture of the finished 4000 turn coil. This took 7 hours to complete.
22 'wire nails' are inserted as the core.
Of note are the relay cores. Just 2x Omron 12V relays supplied enough 46 gauge wire to complete the coil...which was staggering !
The finished coil was wrapped with Blenderm surgical type tape, to protect the thin gauge wiring.
Also shown, is the now decased closet light from Dollar Tree. One of the white LED's to be used in the project.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/slider27/100_0021.jpg

Project: Self running coil and magnet

Here is the coil, now wrapped with electrical tape, as per the original video.
Both the foamboard and plastic end pieces were painted black.
The front assembly of capacitor, reedswitch and LED are soldered to 2 pieces of approx 16 gauge copper. Using the electrical tape seems to be a fine method of both securing the rods and of allowing them to remain adjustable. I see now why he did that

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/slider27/100_0022.jpg

Project: Self running coil and magnet

The project ready for testing.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/slider27/100_0024.jpg

Project: Self running coil and magnet

« Last Edit: 2012-02-12, 02:59:02 by Slider2732 »

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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Slider2732

Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #12 on: 2012-02-12, 04:29:15 »

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Testing and levitator idea
-------------------------------

So how does it perform ?
I'm still unsure of the wiring for the coil. As I understand it, the Primary coil is the 46 gauge, the Secondary is the 30 gauge.
Testing with the Bedini 3PM kit rotor produces less cogging with the 46 gauge connected as the Primary....light output is also stronger.
The LED stays lit slightly longer than it did with the pre-build version, which it will do with 500 extra windings and of the right gauges.

With the 5/8ths sphere, the ball itself spins off the concave glass far too readily, or sticks to the coil nails far too readily.
The reedswitch clicks away as it ought to, as positioned above the sphere

The LED has lit for brief flashes on a couple of occasions...but it's all so random with the way the sphere scoots off under magnetic field interactions.

So, what i'll try is to place a glass over the sphere, such that it can't move off and away.
Perhaps some silicon lube stuff on the inside of a glass would be a usable solution

Here's a pic of the proposed test using levitation.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/slider27/100_0026.jpg

Project: Self running coil and magnet

The rotor part will have 4x small neo's fitted to it, to form a vertical spinner...as successfully trialed as an LED lighting method with the Bedini 3PM rotor and this coil.
The circuit nearest to the camera, is a mini Bedini system, which runs nicely using a 3.7V li-ion battery. It will spin up the rotor, then be moved out of the way to let the project coil take over.
If this works, then the levitator is fully replicable, as it is a product found here: http://www.amazon.com/Toysmith-79411-Magnetic-Levitator-Classic/dp/B0038I6R2Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329021398&sr=8-1

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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

PhysicsProf	Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #13 on: 2012-02-12, 05:29:35 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3249	Mark, I've very impressed by your tenaciousness in building this, and hope your efforts are rewarded with commensurate success! Quote "A picture of the finished 4000 turn coil. This took 7 hours to complete. Did you wind this by hand, or did you have a motor helping you? Again, very impressive work.

Slider2732

Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #14 on: 2012-02-12, 07:10:52 »

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It was wound by hand. A drill based method would most certainly have snapped the relay wire and a motor would probably have done the same. The fine wire really does snap with just a mild glitch in an unwinding process.
What I did, was to sit on my bed covers, large coil resting against the right leg, tiny relay in my lap. The first relay needed to have several turns unwound for each several winds, though the second one unwound much easier as I went. The whole thing was wound in layers, fore and aft.
The bed covers allowed for a soft surface for slight movements of the main coil, a sort of rocking as it unwound and so not snagging. The thin fine relay wire would have snapped if it had been allowed to drop to the floor and naturally spin around, but would have made the task much easier.
Also. doing it this way made sure that the middle of the coil didn't all bunch up as a hill

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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Slider2732

Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #15 on: 2012-02-12, 09:57:47 »

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Trials tonight, were made with the powered levitator idea.
4x small neo's were superglued to the rotor, with the intention of spinning it up to a speed sufficient for the project coil to take over.
Well...in the end, the speed obtainable hasn't been fast enough to begin the functioning of the coil.
As the rotor picks up, a wobble sets in and unfortunately the rotor flies off the glass support.

Here's a pic of it being spun:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/slider27/100_0027.jpg

Project: Self running coil and magnet

Btw, the circuit used is quite special, in my opinion. sMartCreations2010 on YouTube developed a self starting efficient pulse motor, which i've made a couple of. With this one in the pic above, i've taken the little rotor off and turned the coil to face the levitator.
(i'm helping him at the moment with his forays into salts and water battery cells).
The circuit runs from a small solar panel, which is actually under my 13W bedside CFL. Anything upward of 0.9V at 5ma will start it up.
There's some parts on the bottom left that aren't needed. They're for charging a battery with the output.

I've got some ceramic holed magnets on order and intend to make a more stable version.
Tomorrow will see trials with a glass over the largest sphere, to contain the wandering that was prevalent.

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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Allcanadian

Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #16 on: 2012-02-12, 16:44:35 »

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@slider2732

Quote

Here's one video, where I fly a 7oz repaired converted aircraft that was bought from a salvage store, with my very first such motor (the Estes Hyper-X was a weak bi-plane and not a popular model, which I converted to a single wing and fitted out with replacement R/C gear. The $4 price was based on there only being the airframe in the returns box).

Ah, a fellow RC'er, I started flying 30 years ago and never really quit. I have some trainers and gliders however about 5 years ago I started into helicopters which have a pretty steep learning curve similar to mount Everest. I have a couple Trex 450's in carbon fibre and aluminum set up for 3D and last year I finally got to the point where I was comfortable with inverted hover and some inverted figure 8's as well as the usual assortment sloppy loops, tick-tocks and piro's. I love it because it requires precision and my full concentration 100% of the time and the general rule of thumb is usually that if your not in complete control of your machine and flying it 100% then your not actually flying your crashing, lol.

Concerning your powered levitator, it may not be apparent but this is a very bad design and I have tested it using rotors over 30 pounds in weight. The issue is that it is essentially a lever bound by a fulcrum on the left and levitated by frictionless fields of force. It is an excellent oscillator which is essentially what it does 99% of the time which is exactly what we do not want in a levitated rotor. I would glue a small neo magnet on the right side of the rotor, on the point, then in close proximity to this magnet place a block or plate of aluminum or copper. Now this has a few effects, first the magnet spins about a central point relative to the aluminum plate and little or no drag forces are generated, second if the rotor oscillates the magnet moves radially from the central point of rotation relative to the aluminum plate and this motion produces eddy currents which oppose the radial oscillations. In effect all oscillations are dampened but the rotation is not and the rotor can spin up in a controlled manner until inertial forces come into play which inherently stabilize the rotor.

It should also be noted that adding more magnets around the perimeter of the rotor only makes matters worse, it is still a lever bound by it's fulcrum only now the frequency of oscillation increases in which case inertia comes into play which moves the fulcrum and now a whole other set of problems come into play. Another note of interest is that a magnet which includes a field of force associated with it which spins about it's center in proximity to an aluminum or copper plate generates no drag forces until such time as the magnet and it's field move radially from the center. This gives us some insight into the nature of the magnetic field, if the magnetic field spins with the magnet then should there not be drag forces present due to the generation of eddy currents in the aluminum plate?, I will let you decide. One question which pertains to your experiment is if there is no field rotation then is the field a property of the magnet or simply an effect due to it?, if an effect then the field may be considered as a property of space and if it is then this space must have certain properties of it's own which are acted upon. When you find your own answer to this question I think you may be very surprised at what you find and you may look upon this world around us in a different light.

Regards
AC

« Last Edit: 2012-02-12, 20:28:20 by allcanadian »

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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

Slider2732

Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #17 on: 2012-02-12, 22:01:49 »

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Quote

is the field a property of the magnet or simply an effect due to it?

To answer that may become protracted and more fitting for a country pub, with fireside discussions and a good beer. So my short answer is based on understandings and experimentation - a magnet interacts with the non scientifically witnessed and documented earth energies and is itself a field effect cohesion system. At this time, I don't believe a magnet to be emanating anything continually, like some kind of force field. Rather that it displays what could be determined to be an amplitude modulation of field effects produced when in the proximity of another object. A side note there, is that magnetic forces are never a limited field as such, a magnet in Brazil may interact with a piece of steel in Zimbabwe...but we ourselves have no way of measuring that interaction. A field is only what our instruments tell us it is and what our senses experience in local proximity.
The forces observed as being originated by the magnet are, theorised, to be actually how another material is upset from a natural harmonic inherent resting balance.
My head says that the self powering coil will never beat a 1% regenerating loss. In fact, though, it's not me within that says that, it's the understandings based on human calculated 'laws', of which new understandings challenge.

This levitator is only the first such levitator i've ever seen, let alone used. It's why this one was purchased....to get a grounding. I'd been trying, without success, to build one for a while. The 'coupling' on this one is short, but it does work

I have needed to understand 'simple' magnetism for some time and do value your points of view.

Regarding heli's. 2008 saw a trip to Oklahoma City airport and the farewells to my two daughters and mum, who had visited for a couple of weeks. On the way back we stopped for fuel and, sat there for $10 in the gas station store was a knock off of a Picoo-z. It brought me back into flight, having left gliders etc at the age of about 12
Over quarter of a century later, here was something cheap that might be fun. It was...still got the old girl and it makes a trip into our livingroom walls occasionally to this day lol.
I focus on foamies and using salvaged equipment and parts, but, lately have upgraded (for me) to a Spektrum DX5e and a very kind friend sent me some proper servo's, propellers etc. Aircraft like the Horten wings series, Custer Channelwing and Boeing YC-14 are my builds fodder. Main project is the Stormrunner flying wing tornado data acquisition system. A 3 year project so far, using a model which could be termed as an updated Horten IX and intended to assist the research community with telemetry and live feed video within storm cells. There's a story behind all that, for another time I hope.
Back to heli's - I like the performance of the Syma S107 (for wall avoiding) but especially the 9958 single rotor newer micro heli. That thing is something to save for over the next few weeks. Ideally and as advertised unsuccessfully for on RCgroups, i'd buy up a few busted up micro heli's. I want to explore much and wireless flight is definitely one of those dreams.
I'm not convinced that such a system as this project coil describes, couldn't be used within the flight of a heli...if flybar balance weights were replaced with magnets and a fine coil were fitted under the flybar.

Hoppity has been the only example of wireless energy powered flight so far.
Flight, with no onboard power source being the goal.
It borrowed the internals of another Picoo-z knockoff and used a Tesla tower to spin up the rotor. It probably would have done better if the 'lightsaber' fluorescent hadn't been wirelessly lit behind !!
Here's that vid, embarassing though it now is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swXw74PO_AM

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PhysicsProf	Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #18 on: 2012-02-14, 03:39:46 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3249	Tonight I came across a video by Lidmotor -- clever builder whom I respect -- who made a spherical-magnet motor that looks somewhat like your build, Mike... You may get some ideas from watching this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSGnZPZpR_I&feature=related It does not appear that he designed it for ou, or tested it for ou; not sure of that.

Slider2732

Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #19 on: 2012-02-14, 06:27:04 »

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Not seen that one...I stopped within Rusty's older videos when I saw the silicon spray. In fact, it's somewhat difficult to find peoples older videos when they post a lot and so am very glad you found that one

The way it spins up inside the coil and then off it goes at the 90 degree angle is most inspiring.
I haven't had much luck with this system yet, besides the way the LED will light quite readily. But, along with the levitator ideas i'll be trying when the ceramic magnets arrive, i'm sure to wind a 4000 turn coil with a spool shaping like that one.
12V @ 100mA on such a system is quite normal, but he did have a Bedini similar circuit that runs from 1.5V: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuRAI2tE6bE
I'm interested in finding out if the thousands of turns type of this project can reduce that figure. Next from that is to loop it around, in the way that this project is envisaged to run.
My small setups (as seen as the run circuit with the levitator above) normally run from 3.7V and i'm looking to reduce that figure.
An AV plug on the coil collapse and capacitor buffer have worked before...so that's the new direction

Also, thinking about that 100mA. On the recent 6 coiler system I built for a friend, it now uses the 'ear of wheat' bulb and 3 position switch. Basically, you spin up the rotor and, when at full speed, switch over to the bulb. The current draw goes from exactly 1A on that setup, to 370mA with no loss of speed.

« Last Edit: 2012-02-14, 09:46:29 by Slider2732 »

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Slider2732	Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #20 on: 2012-02-16, 08:24:18 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1602 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	The ceramic magnets have arrived and some more reed switches. Am envisaging a couple more coils being made yet, including the 4000 turn version of Lidmotor's hyper speed sphere video. Project: Self running coil and magnet --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Slider2732

Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #21 on: 2012-02-20, 20:56:08 »

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Spin trials with a sphere magnet have been a mixed bag. I can put a magnet in the middle of a coil and it will tick left and right like a clock, moving with each pulse from a circuit like the SS1CC by sMartcreations. To make it self start, as that circuit enables with correct component values and coil design, would bring a lot of safeguard to any system. The basis there, would be an ambient room lighting solar backup....if the draw on the system were too high the system would halt, then auto start when the extra load was removed. Further, it would do so by design and require no operator input.

I'm going to wind a 4000 turn coil today. 2 more relays of fine gauge wire are now readied for the winding and i'll be using more wire from the supposedly dodgy 30 gauge spool. It's a great spool !
I need to find some kind of bottle cap or something for an initial spin up. Keeping the sphere spinning in one spot is difficult, while placing the coil over it..

Related to these tests and trials have been the 2 levitator motors i've built over the past few days (hence the quietness on this thread).
One is the black/white Amazon.com commercial levitator and the other is my first scratch-built levitator.
Both are powered by the same circuit, without seperate tunings depending on which is connected and was an aim of that build idea.
Speed of rotation and balance are still areas to work through and so they can only form stepping stones to something in the future. The speed of rotation is nowhere near that required for the self runner of this project.
Still, here's the video of them running

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znmyAbKLIUM

The Sziklai transistor pair has my attention, as used in the Solarbotics/Lidmotor/sMartcreations circuit in the video above. While the original circuit of this project concentrates on the coil energies transferring power without a gubbins of circuitry, we may find that a double pulse 100ns firing is perfectly feasible.
The collapse energies of the tiny coil in the scratchbuilt levitator is powerful enough to light 4 LED's in parallel so far !
The white LED shown to the left of the levitator is lit on each coil collapse. The output of that LED can run to the Base of a 3rd transistor. The Collector of that transistor can refire into the coil. It'd have to be very quick in response, but would enable a double pulse firing, before the circuit fires again as conventionally designed.
Most likely, a fast Schottky diode would replace the collapsing field LED, due to response time.
If we look at a Bedini circuit and how the high spike is routed to a battery - what we can do is use that output as an input to a second run stage contained within the first.
Basically, a self runner possibility through aether extraction that still falls within the summary condition of this project.

Here's the SS1CC circuit as developed for pulse motors by sMartcreations2010, forwarded in projects by Lidmotor and originating for another use at the Solarbotics.com website:

Project: Self running coil and magnet

SS1CC.jpg (27.26 kB, 623x332 - viewed 24 times.)

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Slider2732

Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #22 on: 2012-02-21, 04:24:00 »

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New coil is wound, to test the sphere spinning in the middle of it.
It was quickly realised, that with a bigger hole in the middle of the coil form, that there was no way 4000 turns would fit on it. The coil form itself is from a solder reel.
So, how many turns are on it...and you might like this....
A popular political phrase at the moment is "The answer to 2012 is 1776"
This coil has 1776 winds

30 gauge - 79 ohm
40's gauge - 832ohm

The resistance readings were surprising. Because 10x was the ratio on the actual replication coil and were just about the same 80 vs 800 ohms. The coil with the 500 lesser winds had about an 80% value of ohms resistance. It looks like this one, with fewer but larger winds may be interesting, because of that similar ratio to the actual replication coil.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/slider27/100_0038-1.jpg

Project: Self running coil and magnet

« Last Edit: 2012-02-21, 09:17:34 by Slider2732 »

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Slider2732

Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #23 on: 2012-02-21, 08:11:32 »

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On Test
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Although the pic is rather dire, it shows the new coil triggering.
At the top is the LED lighting up, next to it is the 10uF electrolytic capacitor. Toward the middle, with a yellow small surround that protects it, is the reed switch. The reed switch is mounted on a piece of about 18 gauge copper rod. The rod is superglued to the coil form and allows the switch to be re-positioned easily. The diode is a 1N4158.
The neodymium sphere is inside the coil and is being spun by the Bedini 3PM wheel, which is spinning at 90 degrees to the coil.

I'm attempting to spin up the ball gradually to a fast rate, whereupon the circuit will take over the running.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/slider27/100_0046.jpg

Project: Self running coil and magnet

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PhysicsProf	Re: Project: Self running coil and magnet « Reply #24 on: 2012-02-21, 14:48:56 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3249	I'm following your progress with great interest, Mark. Thanks for keeping us informed! Quote A popular political phrase at the moment is "The answer to 2012 is 1776" I like it!