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Author Topic: Sterling Allan going to So Africa to see OU device; seeks money  (Read 77240 times)
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...
I would strongly recommend caution, as I also recommended for the claims of Rossi (proton capture by nickel nuclei, but no gamma spectra released), for example.
...

The South African and Rossi's devices differ at least on two essential points:
1- the e-cat have been witnessed by skilled people: professional physicists. Even though the measurement protocol is not strong enough and questions are not answered about the gamma production, we are far from the ridiculous test of the South African device by Sterling Allan.

2- the South African device is compatible with conventional means. It doesn't produce more energy than can produce the same volume of batteries, so it can easily be a fake.
For the e-cat, there is no conventional alternative explanation for the production of this huge heat quantity.

The south African and Rossi's devices must not be put on the same level. Until now, only the first one appears as a joke.

   
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I suppose that a clock is starting on Green Power SA.  If they don't deliver a magic box to Sterling by the end of March, I propose the end of May, two months later, as being when the clock runs out.

I am predicting no delivery to Sterling at all, and no press related to the supposed list of customers lined up to receive the first 200 units.  Chances are that by the end of May Green Power SA will be off of Sterling's "Top 5" list.

With no delivery of a unit there will be no ability to make measurements as PhysicsProf is hoping for.  Naturally we all would hope for some seriously done measurements but honestly how often do we see them in situations like this?

Again, my proposed model for Green Power SA is as follows:  Generate some positive press from the free energy and alternative web sites with the knowledge that this positive press will recirculate forever on the unofficial secondary list of web sites.  There may be hundreds or more of these web sites in existence.  Stoke the fires by releasing some photos of the alleged device and marketing brochures and some alleged test data.  Then take orders with payment terms that are either 100% payment up front or perhaps a 50% payment up front.

Let's suppose that over 18 months they get 100 100% payment up front orders and 200 50% payment up front orders.   So that's (100 x 6000) + (200 x 3000) = $1,200,000.  So that's 1.2 million dollars.   For that kind of money it's worth it to put some batteries in a box with a motor and a generator.  Likewise, it was worth it for them to entertain Sterling for a few days and show him some blinking lights.

MileHigh
   
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Lawrence:

Quote
The material cost of all the above should not be more than US$1,000.  It is a matter of how fast other parties can reverse engineer or break the patent.  If the basic technology is getting to a “commercial resonance condition” via some type of pulsing and resonance circuits, there will be little chance of a patent covering all possible commercial resonance conditions.  The chance of a low-cost production Country coming out with a low-price version within months is very high.
 
However, there can still be some limited degree of patent protection.  The South Africa Company may be using the right approach – get many other Companies to evaluate together, license the technology quickly, go public and earn its money on the Stock Market.  They deserve to have the fame and wealth as they beat everyone else to come out with the marketable product.
 
May God Bless this Wine Server.

You must acknowledge that there is simply no evidence that this device works as claimed.  Both you and Rosemary Ainslie are indicating that you believe that the device works without any supporting evidence.  This is not a scientific approach and it lacks wisdom.

Wait until the end of May to see if there is any credible and convincing evidence that this device works and is for real.  If there is no evidence by the end of May, then I submit to you that this whole thing is like a Perendev motor scheme.

My instincts tell me that there is no wine here, just bitter vinegar.  Take your time and do it right.

MileHigh
   
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Green Power's device now serves wine, too!  ;D
   

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Green Power's device now serves wine, too!  ;D

Let us hope so!

Wine is good for the heart, mind and soul.

(In moderation mind you.)


---------------------------
"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   
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A few more interesting comments.

Here is a quote from the contact person at Green Power SA via Gotoluc via Sterling:

Quote
Hi everyone,

I did contact Sterling by email to see if I could also get a demo.

Sterling relied:

The S. African company sent the following on February 22, 2012 3:48 PM, about 6 hours after we first posted the story:      

"I appreciate your enthusiasm but need to pull the reins back a bit. I mentioned when you were here that we first want to trial with the corporates. This process needs to go ahead now and we will entertain licensees thereafter so let's hold off on the discussions with potential guys for now as we are being flooded and I don't want to distract from our strategy..... "


So it looks like a no go for a Demo :(

Luc

Firstly, you can clearly see a Bait and Switch in process here.  They said something to Sterling like "We want to show you the technology IS real."  They were implying that the units were real at the factory and being tested and they would be starting to ship in March.  Now it's vague, some trials with corporate customers are going to be underway for the immediate future.  For how long?  They don't say.  That could be six months, that could be a year or more, easily.  That is if there actually are some corporate customers.  It's my firm belief that there are in fact no corporate customers for the alleged first 200 units.

So, you can clearly see all the writing on the wall in the transition from alleged real working hardware to vapourware.  Note that this still keeps the sales pipeline wide open.  "We will be pleased to accept your order and we have already shipped out the first 200 units to corporate customers."  "We are holding back on shipping your unit until we get the data back from our corporate beta test sites.  This is critical and we may use this data to upgrade and improve the product before we ship it to you."

Notice this phrase, "we first want to trial with the corporates."  I find this to be a really strange choice of words.  I have visited with and sold technology to literally hundreds of tech companies over the past 20+ years.  I have never in my life heard a phrase like that in business dealings with corporate customers.  You would say something like "We first have to run trials with our corporate beta test sites."  The word "corporates" is never ever used.

So I was wondering if this might be a lexicon issue, perhaps it's is a phrase used in South African or European business parlance.  So I did a search on the phrase "we first want to trial with the corporates."  Lo an behold, the phrase comes up nowhere except in Sterling's quote from the Green Power SA guy.

So this means it's not a difference in business lexicon between North America and South Africa.  Instead, it's telling you that the person from Green Power SA doesn't even know standard technical business English relating to corporate customers and beta test sites.  The reason for this is abundantly clear to me.  In my opinion this is yet another clear indicator that this company is a fraud, they are con artists.

MileHigh
« Last Edit: 2012-02-28, 00:58:59 by MileHigh »
   
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A few more comments about this alleged product.

This is a "magic inverter."  It's a stand-alone box that outputs AC power in a very low-tech way, a motor drives an alternator.  In this day and age, it's almost a "Stone Age" way of implementing a power inverter.

This is not the type of product that you need to send to corporate customers willing to act as beta test sites.  It really isn't.  Not to say that you can't do this but it makes no sense.  Rather, this is a product where you put about 10 of them in a test lab and have them drive loads 24/7 for a few months.  You want to do the testing yourself, there is very little to be gained by having beta test sites for this product.  You can test it yourself under differing load conditions and with inductive and capacitive reactive loads.  You would want to test it when the load is a switching power supply.  By using corporate beta test sites you delay your launch to market for no valid reason.  It simply doesn't make sense for this type of product to go the corporate beta test site route.

This is a product that you would put thermocouples all over while you test it.  You can easily envision 10 units under test and each unit having between 10 and 30 thermocouples on it.  That's to check to see if the motor bearings or electronics overheat, etc.  Getting a complete thermal profile for this device would be very important.

Then certainly, you would want to put several units individually in an "oven."  Sometimes called a "temperature cycling oven" or an "environmental test chamber."  That's where you test the unit driving a load, still with thermocouples all over it, while the ambient environment in the temperature cycling oven goes up and down in temperature and you also vary the humidity of the air.

If you do all the above, you absolutely do not need corporate beta test sites.  Again, for this particular product, it makes no sense to have corporate beta test sites.

Also, it doesn't make any sense to have 200 units out for beta testing.  It's simply too many units and would generate too much data, most of it redundant.  It represents too much cash tied up for nothing.  Perhaps a maximum of 25 test sites would make sense, but like I already said it doesn't make sense in the first place.

These are just more points for your consideration to make you see what a bunch of fake baloney this whole thing is.

MileHigh
   
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As far as the product itself goes, no serious tech company would touch it with a ten-foot pole.  It makes you wonder who all of these alleged "corporate customers" might be.

As far as licensing the alleged technology goes, that implies that you have a few hundred thousand dollars to invest in developing a functioning product and getting agency approvals to sell the product in the marketplace.  Because of the huge investment, you would be insane to get licensing rights before you had absolute 100% proof that this magic box actually works.  But, if there was 100% proof the product actually worked, it would be the biggest news story in the 21st century, and it's not like you could then hire your electrical engineer and your mechanical engineer and develop your product.  This would be so big that the entire world would change and your business aspirations might still be possible, but your thunder would be drowned out by the speeches going on at the United Nations and by President Obama.  There is simply no such thing as a little South African company making free energy inverters and dealing with other companies that want to get licensing rights.  It's just wouldn't happen like that.  The news would be so Earth-shattering that it's hard to imagine what would really happen.

These are yet even more points for your consideration to make you see what a bunch of fake baloney this whole thing is.

MileHigh
   
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Lawrence:

You believe that the free Green Power SA unit will be shipped to Sterling and I don't.  Let's put that disagreement aside for now.  Let's assume that the device will ship.

You said this:

Quote
You can visit him and Prof. Steven Jones in Utah when the 5KW unit arrive.  I plan on that.
 
I plan to bring my oscilloscopes etc. so that more scientific tests can be done.  You should do the same.

Can you tell us how you would test the device?

Thanks,

MileHigh
   

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Quote from: MileHigh
...
This is a "magic inverter."  It's a stand-alone box that outputs AC power in a very low-tech way, a motor drives an alternator.  In this day and age, it's almost a "Stone Age" way of implementing a power inverter.
...

If, however, the motor is utilized as a
source of inductive kickback (pulse
driven series wound motor) then an
alternator may not be a bad choice for
producing AC power.  It is a convenient
source of Pure Sine Wave AC which may
be better than an electronic inverter for
several reasons.

If properly done it is within the realm of
possibility.  I'd like to know more about
the device before coming to any definite
[speculative] conclusions.


---------------------------
"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   
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Indeed a real alternator driven by a motor has its advantages for generating the output sine wave.  This would be significantly less efficient than the all-electronics approach, because you have the efficiency of the motor times the efficiency of the alternator to deal with.  Of course in theory you don't care about all of this lost power because you are dealing with a magic free energy box.

We know that as the electrical load increases on the alternator, the electrical motor has to work harder to output the required mechanical power, and that will cause an increased draw on the battery.  Under a heavy load condition like this any kind of average back spike power from the motor will be very small compared to the electrical power consumption of the motor.

Somewhere in the narrative Sterling makes reference to a "modified standard electrical motor."  I can only guess that means "slightly modified" to extract any available back-EMF pulses.  Almost certainly this does not mean converting an off-the-shelf eight-horsepower motor into a pulse motor.  Pulse motors have no real mechanical output power.

Anyway, this is all an academic discussion om my part to suggest that when the device is outputting five kilowatts of electrical power into a load, the real electrical motor powering the alternator is not going to have "big back-EMF pulses to charge the second battery bank."  In the real world this will not be the case.  Most of the electrical power provided to the motor will become mechanical power, that's what motors do.

Anyway, coming back to reality I can see that there is no interest in this device on all three forums.  That's probably because poor Sterling Allen took a huge credibility hit by flying all the way to South Africa on other people's money and then barely doing anything to attempt to make a serious first go round at validating the device.  I feel sorry for him in a way, it got painful.  At the same time, he has been at this game for 10 years now.  It's like Sterling is a mirror image of the pitchmen that approach him, they have a symbiotic relationship.

His performance was ghastly and it's unfortunate because it looks like he is a decent man.

MileHigh
   
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Quote
His performance was ghastly and it's unfortunate because it looks like he is a decent man.

MileHigh

MH, your statement assumes Sterling Allan has no ulterior motives, no personal agenda. But I'm not inclined to agree with the 'decent man' part because I feel he must have his own agenda, as surely nobody can be consistently this stupid!

I think Ex hit the nail on the head with his post earlier in the thread.

I thought that SA was a honest but gullible guy that fell in all traps from con men as Milo or others. Now I see that he doesn't retain at all the lessons of the past. I can't believe he is so stupid, therefore I now guess that his attitude is in part dictated by the business, more or less consciously.
The less sharp his intellectual requirement, the more numerous the subjects he can promote, the more the readers whom he can attract.
He is unskilled in science and technology and has not even the sharp diligence of good journalists in investigations. Although he is likely not fundamentally dishonest, he cultivates his natural negligence, incompetence and partiality in choosing and presenting the subjects, and the operational result is the same as if he was dishonest.

In essence, Sterling can only maintain the semblance of an innocent man with pure motives by outwardly pretending to be so naive and gullible.

   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
Quote
there is very little to be gained by having beta test sites for this product

This implies a group reality of trust. [Oh look there are others that have seen and are part of this real thing and we can trust them].

Quote
At the same time, he has been at this game for 10 years now.  It's like Sterling is a mirror image of the pitchmen that approach him, they have a symbiotic relationship.

Or [Cahoots].


Get a rope...


---------------------------
   
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In essence, Sterling can only maintain the semblance of an innocent man with pure motives by outwardly pretending to be so naive and gullible.


I actually think he really is that naive and gullible.  It is evident he has not made much money on any of this.  He could not even spring for his own airfare to South Africa.
   
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All:

I think that Sterling certainly is not pure in the sense that whenever he thinks he is onto the next big thing, he tries to represent the individual or company in the USA etc.  So he compromises his objectivity.  At the same time, I don't really sense that he would really be able to add value, and it's always a pipe dream anyways.  In that sense he is spinning his wheels and his ulterior motives amount to nothing.

If you say, "Sterling Allen's company is the Western US representative for Tachyon-Dynamics, a high technology company that manufactures all-magnet motors that require no power input," how many doors to new sales do you think that's going to open up?

Warren Buffet invests in companies that do things like manufacture bed linen.  There is a lot of wisdom in that.

MileHigh
   
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I actually think he really is that naive and gullible.  It is evident he has not made much money on any of this.  He could not even spring for his own airfare to South Africa.

Naive and gullible is one thing, but I doubt even Sterling is daft enough to cough-up for his own airfare, especially when he knows others will happily pay it for him! And besides, who knows what he has tucked away in his Swiss bank account!

Makes you wonder who the naive and gullible really are, doesn't it?  :-\
   
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Lawrence,

You answered my question across the great divide:

Quote
The tests that I would like to do if I visit Sterling Allan in Utah when he has his 5KW home generator
 
1.  Capture the waveforms at the various appropriate connections.  This experiment will tell us when and where the lead-out energy enters the system.
 
2.  A calorimeter type test.  The simplest is to boil away water.  We can easily determine the exact amount of water that turned to steam.  That will require considerable energy - much more than could be supplied by the four 12V batteries.
 
3. Repeat the home appliances test.  This will demonstrate that the average household can use such a device.  I shall bring a potential licensee with me.  He is more interested in selling it than the technical details.
 
4. Try to feed the energy back to the grid and see whether a faster payback is possible.  This will be a strong selling point.
 
5. See if the unit can be placed on an electric car to recharge the car batteries.  This will be of great interest to the Group who claimed to have developed such technology.  They have a demonstration car that I shall drive when I go back to Hong Kong.
 
I have confidence that all the above will provide positive results.  The potential licensee is already doing some basic homework - getting component price quotes, identifying factory space, talking to their investors etc.

You need to be real here, and many of your points are a complete flight of fancy that are not realizable.

What you need is a multimeter, preferably a true-RMS multimeter, and a clamp-on ammeter.  An oscilloscope is optional.

You also need one or two oven heating elements and the wires and connections to connect it to the device.  If the device comes with European 220-VAC sockets, then go get some European 220-VAC plugs.  The end of the oven elements terminate in standard tab connections.  You just need the standard insulated oven wire that terminates in the mating connectors.  The connectors are called "fast-on" connectors.  All of this stuff would be available at any appliance repair store or service center.

You will also need some building bricks or concrete cinder blocks to support the hot oven elements.  If you do the test indoors you will need a fan to blow the hot air outside.

Here is the eBay search for "broil element:"
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=broil+element&_sacat=See-All-Categories

You can see that you can get elements for about $20.  You need an element that works with 220 VAC which will be no problem.  The power rating for a broil element (or a regular lower oven element) is usually between 1.5 and 2 kilowatts.  So, let's suppose that you get two 2-kilowatt broil elements.

The test:  Wire up two broil elements to the Green Power SA unit.  Turn the unit on and monitor the voltage with your multimeter and the current with your clamp-on ammeter.  Calculate the power dissipation and verify that is is somewhere between 4 and 5 kilowatts.

Then you just sit and watch.  Watch the red glow from the oven broil elements and feel the infrared heat on your clothes and your skin.  Roast some marshmallows if you want to.   Let the system run for at least 10 times the energy storage capacity of the batteries in the device.  Preferably much longer because it's supposed to be a magic free energy box!  Let it run for days non-stop.

That is the REAL TEST Lawrence.  Forget about everything else you said, you are fantasizing.  Get REAL.

If you can't do this simple setup then get someone that can help you do it.  Be honest with yourself about your electrical skills.  I don't want you burning yourself or electrocuting yourself.  I am pretty sure that Sterling would not be capable of doing it.

Repeat:  Test the device by hooking it up to some big dumb electric oven elements and wait.  That's all there is to the test.

With two weeks worth of preparation and working with Sterling, getting pictures of the device, etc., you should be able to go visit Sterling with all of the parts ready for connection and within one hour you could be running the test.

There is also a Plan B which was mentioned before:  Buy four European 220 VAC hair blow dryers, the models that are rated at 1200 Watts.  Hook four of those up to the device and make your power measurements, etc.  That will be perfectly good also, with less chance of getting shocked or burned.  The trade-off is that it will be noisy.

MileHigh
   
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I actually think he really is that naive and gullible.
...

I don't think so. If it was naive and gullible at the beginning, I'm sure he is now aware of his case, but he volontary keeps his apparent naiveness. This allows him to make much more buzz on his site, because he can put any fairytale or scam, attracting more people, while keeping his status of "good guy" sincerely searching for the holy graal.
He keeps almost everything on his site without mentionning those having been dismissed. This is a symptom that the truth is of no interest for him, that he is motivated by an ideology with which he is expecting to make enough money to live.

   
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Quote
I have confidence that all the above will provide positive results.

It seems that Laurence has already made his mind up that the Green Power device is genuine and works as stated. Personally I think us sceptics are much better placed to evaluate these things than the people who are prepared to believe it works on face-value.

Why would anyone need such a complex testing procedure, when all that needs to be done is hook up a suitable load and see if the power is maintained over a period that would rule out the batteries as the sole energy source?

Sure if it works it would be nice to do further analysis to find out exactly what is occuring, but first let's just see if it 'does what it says on the tin'!
   
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I see Sterling has now restored the old comments on this article... well actually only some of them.  ???  I see that many of the negative comments have not made it back, I assume so that the responses appear to be a little more balanced - of course appearances can be deceptive!

I wonder if this is the start of the delaying tactics MH has predicted:

Quote
"We have started our own internal alpha testing as such, to get the certification process going. So we will be going for some destructive testing processes as well before we actually go into beta. This process will take some time, so we have delayed the project slightly, as we feel that some proper data might help our cause first."

I know... ever the pessimist!  :)
   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
Lets play ping-pong...
Wasnt the staement made that he was not allowed in the factory or see the device?
Then How does he do alpha testing? Simulations with air? Juggle car batteries?

Through the [Shell game] tactics did I miss something?


---------------------------
   
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The scum buckets!  That was a punk band in the 70s.   ;D
   
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Spot on Farrah,  O0 If it weren't for the skeptics, with all the claims, almost everything would be OU,
but there would be no gain at the end of the day to show for it.  ;D I can only imagine the circus
there would be if the skeptics held our tongue's. The amount of unsubstanciated claims is incredible.
And they way they are defended by anyone without good reason and with such venom indicates to
me that most people know subconciously there are very few claims even close to unity but want to
hold onto belief because they have invested so much time, money and effort into following
and replicating what they have been duped to believe is Over Unity.

I would suggest that without the over unity claims these Free Energy sites would see very little traffic and
not many people would be inclined to build or learn anything. Unless that way inclined already.
Most conversations would be about solar, wind and water power, true free energy. And new ways to use them.

Believe it or not.  :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9Q3orQhEcA

Cheers
   
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Well Green Power SA has dropped to number two on Sterling's Top 5 Free Energy Technologies:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Top_5_Exotic_Free_Energy_Technologies

It was exciting while they were on top of the world.

What ever happened to James Kwok and compressed air power and Ismael Aviso's self-charging electric car running on cell phone tower power?
   
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His top 5 has no real bearing on the science or credibility does it?  Seems rather to be based on nothing more than what Sterling deems is flavour of the month! C.C

I've given up with the guy... he's a total waste of space.
   
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