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Author Topic: TPU and Iron wire Theories  (Read 59297 times)
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Since we have a high degree of confidence the TPUs were built with some kind of magnetizable wire, let's discuss theories of how it works.

In the latest SM movie that was "released", which ION found, we see how SM swipes the magnet around the TPU and then claims it is on.   It most likely magnetizes the domains of the wire and somehow this starts the process, but I caution that this is not necessarily the source of energy conclusively but only enables a component in the TPU to operate properly.   

Either way,  the magnetization of the wire is very interesting. 

If the wire moves but it's not magnetized it won't induce current in the outer loops, so it has to be magnetized.  But how come the magnetization doesn't decay with operation?  I would think those high currents inside the TPU would create magnetic fields much higher then the small magnet, so something to ponder.

EM



   
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EM regarding your post:

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we see how SM swipes the magnet around the TPU and then claims it is on.

Yes and note that he is careful to do it quickly and make no reference to it, lest he reveal too much.

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It most likely magnetizes the domains of the wire and somehow this starts the process


I would agree with this but would replace "starts" with "preconditions". The domains would normally be misaligned when the device was moved to the table, becoming magnetized to the earth field. This is a problem SM previously told us about. (nulling the earth magnetic field)

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but I caution that this is not necessarily the source of energy conclusively but only enables a component in the TPU to operate properly.

I am in agreement here. The component being the iron wire.

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Either way,  the magnetization of the wire is very interesting.

Glad you can see this to be true

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If the wire moves but it's not magnetized it won't induce current in the outer loops, so it has to be magnetized

My guess is we need to look past induction methods, which will always yield AC, towards a method of a sustained DC flow of current. In my opinion the "alignment of domains" is the first step towards this goal. Think more towards an acceleration of free electrons.

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But how come the magnetization doesn't decay with operation?

In my opinion, since it is a DC machine, the alignment becomes more pronounced up to saturation of the iron wire, especially as more DC current is drawn.

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I would think those high currents inside the TPU would create magnetic fields much higher then the small magnet, so something to ponder.

I don't believe there are any strong AC fields in the device, maybe just very fast risetime pulses to kick the electrons in a preferred direction.

In my opinion, there are no currents I have seen greater than about 1 amp DC load of the lamps

I suggest going back to Faraday's law of induction and try to find a good reason why this works (physical explanation), not the formula for how it works. When we know why a moving magnet or moving wire generates a potential difference we will have additional insight.

But in my opinion it is not any form of Faraday induction in the operation of the TPU.

Ponder the smallest unit. We need to think "simplicity". The method may not be new and may go back to C. Earl Ammann.

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I picked up the coils to make sure there was no contact with other appliances. I could see right through them. There was no battery inside. The bell rang just as vigorously. The wire was iron.


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My guess is we need to look past induction methods, which will always yield AC, towards a method of a sustained DC flow of current. In my opinion the "alignment of domains" is the first step towards this goal. Think more towards an acceleration of free electrons.
...

I suggest going back to Faraday's law of induction and try to find a good reason why this works (physical explanation), not the formula for how it works. When we know why a moving magnet or moving wire generates a potential difference we will have additional insight.
...


Difference in permeability and relative motion.
   
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We notice in the 6" unit (latest video) SM swipes the unit with the magnet then places the magnet on top of the unit next to the other rectangular block, hands it to the fellows to demonstrate the gyroscopic and vibrational effects.

Then, the magnet is no longer necessary and is removed, wire twist connectors are removed and the lamp load is demonstrated.

This may support the hypothesis that DC current drawn increases and maintains the alignment, which will remain for as long as even a small load is present.

In the case where the unit is not powering anything and is moved around there may be a slow degradation of the alignment due to the earth magnetic field disordering the preferred alignment.

The sequence of events can allow us to deduce certain hypothesis, which if wrong can be discarded at a later time.

Unfortunately forums are the worst places to maintain a focus due to constant derailment, much like the dis-alignment of domains. Because of this I am lately preferring to work in solitary.


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I can't recall, but doens't a magnet induce a current if moved "along" or "across" a wire?

Everyone remembers that a magnet in a coil induces a current when moved in and out of the coil.  This is moveing the magnetic field "across" the wire. 
   
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I can't recall, but doens't a magnet induce a current if moved "along" or "across" a wire?

Everyone remembers that a magnet in a coil induces a current when moved in and out of the coil.  This is moveing the magnetic field "across" the wire. 

Current, no Potential Difference, yes
 Along, no
 Across, yes

In and out of a coil yes, but if the coil is much longer than the magnet there is no EMF generated after the magnet fully enters the coil even if it continues movement. EMF is generated only while entering or leaving.


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Current, no Potential Difference, yes
 Along, no
 Across, yes

In and out of a coil yes, but if the coil is much longer than the magnet there is no EMF generated after the magnet fully enters the coil even if it continues movement.

EMF is generated only while entering or leaving.

OK, potential difference.

I agree with the movement directions and results and just tested them.

Only while entering and leaving - hmm - let's talk about that.  When the magnet is totally in the coil, the magnetic lines are still crossing the coil wire, but both poles are now inside the coil.  Do the poles cancel out?
   
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From G:

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Do the poles cancel out?

Effectively yes. You might also say that equal and opposite EMF's are induced in the coil resulting in zero Potential Difference. Take your pick, though they are probably not the same in function, just in result.

There are not different poles, just different points of view of the same manifestation. A transparent clock appears to spin in a different direction (CCW) when viewed from the rear.


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From G:

Effectively yes. You might also say that equal and opposite EMF's are induced in the coil resulting in zero Potential Difference. Take your pick, though they are probably not the same in function, just in result.

There are not different poles, just different points of view of the same manifestation. A transparent clock appears to spin in a different direction (CCW) when viewed from the rear.

So, magnetic induction involves:

Magnetic force perpendicular to conductor and in relative motion perpendicular to said conductor.  (What I mean is that the motion, conductor, and magnetic field are perpendicular to each other.)

This also implies that either the conductor or the magnet may move.

Enter the homopolar generator...
   

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If SM magnetizes and iron wire with his magnet, it would have two poles just like the magnet does.

How does that complicate matters of the TPU?

   

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I think if what we see in this latest video is not hard core black magic, than maybe SM use the magnet to change the original orientation of the magnetic field in the iron wire.

If the iron wire wounded circumferential (more likely many parallel wire in circular form) , the earth magnetic field will find those wires as a higher permeability path. The lowest resistance path will be along the wire length. SM may use the magnets to "reset" the wires, and allow the earth field to reenter again. Then the miracle happens!  ^-^  And voila: eight hundred something volts at infinite amperage available.

When it will end?  ???


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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
I can't recall, but doens't a magnet induce a current if moved "along" or "across" a wire?
Yes in both cases.
Induced emf measurable from end-to-end of the wire in only one of the two cases.


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Yes in both cases.
Induced emf measurable from end-to-end of the wire in only one of the two cases.

First, I'm sorry that I cannot remember the YouTube vid author,
but the intended result was an air-core inductor for other purposes.

But the outside of a PVC pipe was adorned
with endless lengths of straight wire,
then both ends trimmed to be equal,
and heat/solvent stripped for connections.

Two copper discs, in a solder form was used
to provide two endpoint connections.

But the issue became when a rod (form) magnet
was dropped through the tube after assembly.



We all know what a magnet dropped through a
copper or aluminum looks like of course...

But the representitive output from his linear coil,
of nothing but a corn husk of straight inductables,
caused a unusual continuously varying voltages.

But on a scope it became more apparent a meter was too two dimensional,
but a scope shot showed the equivalent of a pick-walk of a pick sliding
from the next to the bridge of a stringed instrument, like a guitar.

Think of the exact length of the circumference of the SM core,
then consider the straight inductives around that circumference length.

It is an anomaly that might hold an answer,
hope it helps somehow...


   

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Is there any reason to have a magnetic field parallel to a wire?

Using an iron wire would really stretch out the field.

   
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In the FTPU and OTPU, i.e. First and Open TPUs,  we see that thicker white wire, and that's the magnetizable wire.  In the cutout of the LTPU, i.e. the Large TPU, we again see the same white wire bundled at the top and bottom.  In many ways the LTPU is very similar in layout to the FTPU, except it's covered up and uses 2 torroids in the center instead of one.

So the hardware design is very simple, get a few feet of some shielded nickel or iron / steel wire and coil up, then wrap control coils around it, in sectors.

Pulsing each coil in sequence moves the magnetization domains, much like "squeezing the hose."   Isn't that what SM said?  

Anyway, that's the SM approach.  One theory I have for this layout is that when the magnetic domains flip they induce pulses of one polarity only in the control coils, that Barkhousen noise we've been talking about.  Another theory is that it is configured as a negative resistance oscillator, and a while back I measured a noticeable change in resistance of a magnetic iron wire with magnetization.

While all this sounds very simplistic and not very "OUish" I want to direct your attention to secondary effects.  The earths magnetic field, will change in the vicinity of the TPU as the magnetizable wire changes it's magnetization.  What comes to mind is flux gate magnetometers.  Can the TPU function in part like a magnetometer? 


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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
In the FTPU and OTPU, i.e. First and Open TPUs,  we see that thicker white wire, and that's the magnetizable wire.  In the cutout of the LTPU, i.e. the Large TPU, we again see the same white wire bundled at the top and bottom.
Which white wire bundle are you referring to?

As I recall, the only devices we see white wires, is on the FTPU and the device that had a section cut out with a jig saw. The wires in the latter case seem to droop after they were cut. This would not indicate they were stiff iron wires.


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Here's the pictures of the white wires in the TPUs.


1) in the OTPU, they coil up on the form under the two magnets
2) in the LTPU we see them emerge from the two torroids and, in that cutout of the LTPU we see the bundles at the top and bottom of the cross section. (not shown)
3) in the FTPU, they form the two coils top and bottom and seem to emanante from the central toroid.

that white wire is key because it is magnetic.


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EMDevices , I believe you are right about magnetic wire. I'm starting to believe that TPU is just a generator coil from Tesla patent. Search for method of power distribution patent. C.C
   

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When iron wire is used as a core there is a 90 degree coupling going on. Then the end of the wire can be used as a conductor.
Otto's one wire looping drawing showed this.


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If SM magnetizes and iron wire with his magnet, it would have two poles just like the magnet does.
...

A magnet can be toroidal and so, there is no pole.
As well if an iron wire is wound and joined end to end, and possesses along itself a winding from another wire carrying a current, there would be no pole but a looped magnetic field.
I think it's an interesting field of experiments. For the same mass of iron, a tightly winding along an iron wire that can be itself wound, is surely more effective than ordinary transformer windings, question of better coupling with the "core". And also the magnetic field follows the iron wire, leaving us with a full of possibilities to engineer the magnetic path.

   
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A magnet can be toroidal and so, there is no pole.
As well if an iron wire is wound and joined end to end, and possesses along itself a winding from another wire carrying a current, there would be no pole but a looped magnetic field.
I think it's an interesting field of experiments. For the same mass of iron, a tightly winding along an iron wire that can be itself wound, is surely more effective than ordinary transformer windings, question of better coupling with the "core". And also the magnetic field follows the iron wire, leaving us with a full of possibilities to engineer the magnetic path.

These are important statements worthy of note. We are on the same page here.


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A loop of iron wire biased with a magnet (not touching with an air gap for a weak field) then becomes a Tesla coil secondary in a loop. The field supplied of the magnet becomes the resonant field of the Tesla coil. The iron wire duplicates the Tesla coil resonance by supplying a bias field that has its own field by NMR.

http://www.energeticforum.com/213740-post276.html


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A magnet can be toroidal and so, there is no pole.
As well if an iron wire is wound and joined end to end, and possesses along itself a winding from another wire carrying a current, there would be no pole but a looped magnetic field.
I think it's an interesting field of experiments. For the same mass of iron, a tightly winding along an iron wire that can be itself wound, is surely more effective than ordinary transformer windings, question of better coupling with the "core". And also the magnetic field follows the iron wire, leaving us with a full of possibilities to engineer the magnetic path.

If there is no pole, then the force is always in the same direction.

Sm mihgt have laid his iron wire next to his collector.  This puts the magnetic field of the iron wire around the collector as well.   This orients the magnetic force along the length of the collector.  I don't think this was done for inductive purposes, per se, but there would have been some reason to do this.
   
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If there is no pole, then the force is always in the same direction.
...

I have had also this bad idea  ;). When a cylindrical permanent magnet with axial poles is put near the end of a solenoid, it is sucked or expulsed depending on the relative polarity of the magnet and the solenoid. So we might think that a cylindrical permanent magnet inside a toroidal winding could turn forever because the relative polarity is always the same. False!
There is a force only if there is a gradient of field, as near the end of a solenoid. A permanent magnet at this position is attracted or repelled because it tends to minimize its magnetic potential energy, and the acting force draws its energy from the potential diffrence between the start and end point. Inside a toroidal winding, there is no reason for a permanent magnet to move, because the magnetic potential energy is exactly the same everywhere, the field is constant, there is no gradient. So the force is null.

« Last Edit: 2012-11-17, 12:38:29 by exnihiloest »
   
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