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Author Topic: TPU and Iron wire Theories  (Read 60012 times)

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I have had also this bad idea  ;). When a cylindrical permanent magnet with axial poles is put near the end of a solenoid, it is sucked or expulsed depending on the relative polarity of the magnet and the solenoid. So we might think that a cylindrical permanent magnet inside a toroidal winding could turn forever because the relative polarity is always the same. False!
There is a force only if there is a gradient of field, as near the end of a solenoid. A permanent magnet at this position is attracted or repelled because it tends to minimize its magnetic potential energy, and the acting force draws its energy from the potential diffrence between the start and end point. Inside a toroidal winding, there is no reason for a permanent magnet to move, because the magnetic potential energy is exactly the same everywhere, the field is constant, there is no gradient. So the force is null.

That was not my idea, in the least.

Why might SM want his magnetic field perpendicular to his collector wire?
   
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I explored these ideas years ago when the electrodynamic theory was fresh in my mind, and I came up with something even more clever but related to what EX just said.

Place a small magnet inside the toroid but orient it's magnetic field radially so it is 90 deg to the circumferential mag field of the toroid.  the magnet will experience a strong torque, and if it's designed and Mechanicaly constrained to only slide and thus rotate about the toroids center, it will always feel a torque no matter where it rotates.

The idea was so powerful and ingenious that I convinced my professors as well so I built hardware.  Sadly it did not work!

The reason is that there is a slight axial force in addition to the strong torque, and it turns out that when it acts over the lever arm from the toroidal center, it produces a torque that counteracts the other one.

For an ideal magnetic pointsource this works, torque only and no force.  But in practice it does not.  I was quite disappointed after that one because I really believed I had found the clever secret to extracting unlimited energy from magnets.  Static magnetic fields are truly conservative!

EM
   

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Maybe SM used a method of non-inductive current drive.  I.E. Some way of driving a current without moving or changing a magnetic field...

   
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What Jack Durbin said about the magnets is clearly wrong.  They are not needed to activate a magnetic switch, there is no such switch. The TPU working principle is intimately related to magnetic wires imbedded in it.
   
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What Jack Durbin said about the magnets is clearly wrong.  They are not needed to activate a magnetic switch, there is no such switch. The TPU working principle is intimately related to magnetic wires imbedded in it.

Careful study of the latest video would seem to support this.

Strange that after having been so closely associated with the devices, JD just walked away to pursue other interests. ????

We need a plausible hypothesis for the operation of the units. Based on the demonstrated gyro and washboard effect, vibration and heating, my best guess is the magnetic wire allowed a configuration whereby something (charge or electrons or other?) was made to, or allowed to circulate in a preferred pathway at a very high speed.


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What Jack Durbin said about the magnets is clearly wrong.  They are not needed to activate a magnetic switch, there is no such switch. The TPU working principle is intimately related to magnetic wires imbedded in it.

Based on what reasoning?
   

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Strange that after having been so closely associated with the devices, JD just walked away to pursue other interests. ????
A smart choice, no doubt.

We need a plausible hypothesis for the operation of the units. Based on the demonstrated gyro and washboard effect, vibration and heating, my best guess is the magnetic wire allowed a configuration whereby something (charge or electrons or other?) was made to, or allowed to circulate in a preferred pathway at a very high speed.

I still don't see a purpose for the magnetic wire other than for a pulse delay.

A plausible hypothesis?   non-inductive current drive
   
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That was not my idea, in the least.
...

I meant the idea that you evoked: "If there is no pole, then the force is always in the same direction.". I replied only about this statement.

If there is no pole, there is no force.
The force is due to the pole. The pole is the point where the magnetic field lines spread in space, creating the field gradient required for a force to appear.

   
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I meant the idea that you evoked: "If there is no pole, then the force is always in the same direction.". I replied only about this statement.

If there is no pole, there is no force.
The force is due to the pole. The pole is the point where the magnetic field lines spread in space, creating the field gradient required for a force to appear.



However two force could be in opposite direction or the same, big difference. Look for magnetic amplifier for example
   
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A smart choice, no doubt.

I still don't see a purpose for the magnetic wire other than for a pulse delay.

A plausible hypothesis?   non-inductive current drive

As for item #1 could you expand on why you believe this to be true.

For item #2, pulse delays can be obtained in a much easier fashion with tunable ferrite cored inductor. The magnetic wire must also serve some other purpose.

For item #3 agreed. Inductive will normally create zero DC, as current must flow forward and reverse.


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I meant the idea that you evoked: "If there is no pole, then the force is always in the same direction.". I replied only about this statement.

If there is no pole, there is no force.
The force is due to the pole. The pole is the point where the magnetic field lines spread in space, creating the field gradient required for a force to appear.

Sorry, my use of the term "force" was sloppy.

   

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Strange that after having been so closely associated with the devices, JD just walked away to pursue other interests. ????
A smart choice, no doubt.

We need a plausible hypothesis for the operation of the units. Based on the demonstrated gyro and washboard effect, vibration and heating, my best guess is the magnetic wire allowed a configuration whereby something (charge or electrons or other?) was made to, or allowed to circulate in a preferred pathway at a very high speed.

I still don't see a purpose for the magnetic wire other than for a pulse delay.

A plausible hypothesis?   non-inductive current drive

As for item #1 could you expand on why you believe this to be true.

For item #2, pulse delays can be obtained in a much easier fashion with tunable ferrite cored inductor. The magnetic wire must also serve some other purpose.

For item #3 agreed. Inductive will normally create zero DC, as current must flow forward and reverse.

1. I have come to believe that these device are "real", the claims of the inventor are true, and that what SM discovered that allows the devices to work has much more grave applications.  I suspect that Jack warned or otherwise discouraged by the same Gov. that SM spoke of.

2. A magnetic wire will have the magnetic field of the material parallel to the wire. LAy this wire next to your collector and this magnetic field is parallel to the collector.  Apply HV pulses perpendicular to the collector, at the right rate, and you should drive a current.  I would expect it to be weak since the magnetic field of the wire is weak, but could be increased with a toroidal coil.  I bet it gets hot, as the pulses will effect the magnetic wire as well.  I know for a fact that HV pulses do effect a magnet.

3. Non-inductive current drive via the ponderomotive force: 
What did SM discover?  A time-dependent electric field is known to create a force that acts on matter.  This force was named the Ponderomotive Force.  Both Lord Kelvin (William Thomson) and J.J. Thomson explored it.  Minkowski called it "ponderomotorische Kräfte" i.e. "force that causes movement of mass".  It is used in plasma physics for non-inductive current drive - this is not the Lorentz force  O0.  I think it can be applied to our purposes here, and also that this force is what Tesla developed.  That puts things in a whole new perspective.  The force is easily explored and is very real.  Any HV pulse generator connected to a coil will prove it.  When I discovered this for myself a few years ago, I had no idea what it was.  I did notice that it made the coil attract all objects, with the attractive force proportional to the mass.
   
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However two force could be in opposite direction or the same, big difference.
...

Not a difference in matter of energy, it is exactly the same physical principle.
Two facing magnets with opposite poles attract and reduce their potential energy by approaching from each other.
Two facing magnets with like poles repel and reduce their potential energy by moving away.
In the two cases, the potential energy is reduced, meaning that you must provide energy to separate the attracting magnets, as well as to put closer to one another the repulsing magnets, in order for them to return towards their start position.

   

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Here is an interesting paper:

"On the Attraction of Matter by the Ponderomotive Miller Force"

This paper looks at the Miller Force in solid-state plasma (i.e. conductors).

(I wish I was better educated.)
   
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Here is an interesting paper:

"On the Attraction of Matter by the Ponderomotive Miller Force"

This paper looks at the Miller Force in solid-state plasma (i.e. conductors).

(I wish I was better educated.)

Experimental Evidence for the Attraction of Matter by Electromagnetic Waves
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1005.4905v1.pdf

added:
Mechanical stresses produced by a light beam
http://khrapkori.wmsite.ru/ftpgetfile.php?id=9&module=files

Angular momentum of the electromagnetic field
http://khrapkori.wmsite.ru/ftpgetfile.php?id=57&module=files
« Last Edit: 2012-11-20, 12:20:12 by wings »
   
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@wings,  interesting paper thanks.

@ Grumpy and all,

here's a drawing of the magnetic motor I described in my earlier post.   Notice that the magnet fixed to the carriage can not rotate about it's own center, since it is fixed, so the torque on it makes it rotate about the center of the torroid, labled point 'A' on the diagram.   The torroid has a circumferential magnetic field 'B' .     

After I built it and it did not work, I started to analyze it in more depth and realized that there were things I had not considered, like out of plane angles and varrying magnetic density with R, the big radius of the toroid.


anyway, that's not related to the TPU. 

EM
   

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This is very interesting, so using newtons 3rd law, each and every action has an equal but opposite reaction, then if we have say a little piece of wire and cause this little wire to directionally emit intense em bursts then it should move as if it is being tugged?
« Last Edit: 2012-11-20, 09:54:23 by Peterae »
   

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This is very interesting, so using newtons 3rd law, each and every action has an equal but opposite reaction, then if we have say a little piece of wire and cause this little wire to directionally emit intense em bursts then it should move as if it is being tugged?

...Or, if the conductor is in a magnetic field, you can apply HV pulses to cause a non-inductive current.
   

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Not a single response to the mention of "non-inductive current".  That is very interesting.

We've all heard the story of SM using bifilar coils for speakers, delaying one coil's signal, discovering the compressed pulse that results, and the stuff about the magnetic field of the pulse combining with the magnet in the speaker and producing some sort of gain.

I've always wondered how SM moved from this pulse in a bifilar speaker coil to a generator.  Was the speaker producing some deafening sounds of anomalous energy gain?   Probably.  How do you get from that point to the videos?   He must have gotten a section of that ring to work before he made the ring.

Did he start out with permanent magnets, and a third coil for output? 

Then a ring of these for repeated pulsing and a single coil for output? 

Next step is to get rid of the magnets.

We were told he could not use the iron delay unless it was magnetized or the effect would not occur and no output from the device.  I think this is in reference to the effect producing the gain rather than the compressed pulse.
   
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Before there was magnetic induction we had electrostatic induction.

There you go G, you happy now!  :)

Iron wire has some interesting properties and I'll tell a story I heard from a telephone technician.  He said that iron wire develops a charge on it and needs to be grounded more often when the lines are runing parallel and in close proximity to power lines.  Copper has no problems, it's the iron wires that build up the potential to lethal levels.  I that that was very interesting.

EM
   
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Interesting and strange story. I was not aware that iron wires are used in telecommunication, outside war periods  :o... In my country, iron wires are not used for lines. They are not only poor conductors but also easily rust when aging, even if galvanized.
Perhaps some strange effects are due to the fact that in practice, iron wires are galvanized and so, we have not only iron but also a zinc layer.

   

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Quote
I was not aware that iron wires are used in telecommunication
Same here, seems strange to use iron, but

Quote
The telephone lines were single grounded wires made of iron or steel. Some wires were galvanized for corrosion resistance, but corrosion problems were never ...

Quote
The lines were single grounded wires and they were inherently noisy. Phosphor bronze wires and compound copper steel wires were made in attempts to decrease the noise in the lines.
Noisy :o

http://www.copper.org/applications/telecomm/evolution.html

   
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One such delay line used a special nickel-iron-titanium wire (chosen for its good temperature stability) about 95 feet in length, coiled to reduce the overall package size. The total delay time from one end of the wire to the other was about 9.8 milliseconds, and the highest practical clock frequency was 1 MHz. This meant that approximately 9800 bits of data could be stored in the delay line wire at any given time. Given different means of delaying signals which wouldn't be so susceptible to environmental variables (such as serial pulses of light within a long optical fiber), this approach might someday find re-application.


from: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_4/chpt_15/4.html

   
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I have a supply of telephone drop cables (pole to house) which are copper clad steel alloy. The copper cladding is rather thick, not just a plating. This stuff is hard to work with as it is extremely stiff and has a tenacious rubber covering molded to the pair.

Pole to pole wiring is a copper bundle of a multitude of pairs hung from a steel guy wire for stress relief. Drop cables, on the other hand, have to take the full stress of wind and icing by their two copper clad steel alloy conductors therefore must be "tough".


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