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Author Topic: The TPU principle rediscovered!  (Read 73326 times)

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Smudge
There is another device i am sure was real, independent witnesses, and it also extracts large amounts of power from the earths magnetic field, if you are not familiar with the Hendershot motor & Generator it maybe worth you having a look over the thread

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1597.0

Cheers
Peter
   
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@ION

Thanks for showing that SM video again.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1591.msg40653#msg40653

It is always the same SM problem - see how we have to fight with reality, faith and our own over visions of potential OU.

Remember I had shown that the wall plug could be shorted on the OTPU demo.

You have to look that video again after 2:46. Look at it over and over again. Look, listen to the hesitation, listen to the vocal switch, it says it all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58L73U4sgTE

Description when he showed the lamps off the wall socket:

SM bends down, picks up the plug for the first lamp and plugs it into the bottom wall socket. The first lamp switch is off so the bulb is not lit. He then bends down and picks up the plug for the second lamp and goes to plug it into the free top wall socket, like anyone would do to then show both lamps being lit by the two wall sockets. But before he plugs that second lamp he stops very abruptly and pulls away his hand and changes his tune (modus) by turning on the first lamp to show it lights up with the lamp still plugged into the bottom wall socket. He then unplugs the first lamp from the bottom socket and plugs the second lamp into the bottom socket and shows it lights as well.

Come on.....Come on.....Come on.....Come on.....Come on.....

That was surely not a normal mannerism. The only reason anyone would withdraw his hand is if he knew that only the bottom wall socket was shorted to complete the lamp/battery circuit while the top wall socket was live 110 and that could have blown up the batteries inside his lamp since he probably did not remember if the lamp switch was on or off. Human nature, self-preservation was what we saw there and what gives away the trick.

This just confirms that the OTPU never worked like he stated. The 91 vdc was reactive (like the FTPU) so he showed the volts of 91 off the OTPU, then he said something like, "to show you the amperage we have these two lamps". hehehe. That was exactly right and where he hid his batteries. He could have simply put an ammeter on the output of the OTPU but then we would have seen only mA. So he shows voltage as a meter reading and amperage as a bulb brightness but not a true amperage meter reading. Also, just the  fact that when he plugged the lamps to the OTPU, the output voltage reading did not even budge as if it was totally isolated from the load. Hmmmmmmm.

wattsup



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Yes, I see what you mean.  The size of the lamps has
always puzzled me too.

But surely he must have known that such obvious
clues would eventually be deciphered to reveal his
trickery, no?



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The only reason anyone would withdraw his hand is if he knew that only the bottom wall socket was shorted to complete the lamp/battery circuit while the top wall socket was live 110 and that could have blown up the batteries inside his lamp since he probably did not remember if the lamp switch was on or off. Human nature, self-preservation was what we saw there and what gives away the trick.


Maybe so.  If he would have asked me to help him with this trick, I would have just shorted the wall socket completely and he could have plugged them both in.  Doing it that way would have been much easier.


A question though, how much would the battery packs had to have weighed?  Those lamp bases appeared to be glass and would be pretty hefty.  SM doesn't strike me as a strong dude and he holds at least one of them with three fingers, not appearing to strain at all.

I would sure hate to find out SM was an experienced illusionist.  Anybody know about his background?  Was he fascinated with magic shows?  A David Copperfield admirer?
   
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Forget the Lamps, he lights light bulbs right off the leads of the toroids.  Yes most things can be faked, but that doesn't mean he faked the demos.  This atitude is not constructive.  You never experiment if you assume things are fake, so missed oportunities to learn something new in the process.
   
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I'm good with your layout--makes perfect sense and thank you for posting it.  Where I'm personally stuck is what is driving those coils.  Are they hooked to the collector coil?  Directly?  With a cap in series?  Another inductor?  That's where I'm lost.  If we assume there is no advanced control logic and driver transistors, then everything we need to drive these control coils is already there, someplace.  I just can't see where.

Well I can see plenty of crud inside those hoops, room for the drive oscillator, its circuitry and even a small battery to start things off.  In his big unit you can see small toroidal coils/transformers etc.  The output coil/hoop does not have to be connected in any way to that circuitry, however to get DC it would need some rectification and smoothing.  That could also be within that crud.

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Smudge
There is another device i am sure was real, independent witnesses, and it also extracts large amounts of power from the earths magnetic field, if you are not familiar with the Hendershot motor & Generator it maybe worth you having a look over the thread

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1597.0

Cheers
Peter
I am familiar with the Hendershott device but hadn't made the connection extracting power from the earth's magnetic field.  In view of this latest possibility of using the earth's magnetic scalar potential it is worth a re-look.

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Firstly, this is the wrong thread for debunking the TPU. We have a thread titled: "The TPU was it real?" for debunking hypothesis.

Second: The shorted wall plug idea and batteries / inverter in the  lamp base with pilot relay control was advanced as early as 2006 when the video first appeared, so it is not a new hypothesis for fakery, and was advanced priorly by others early on. The subtle observations made by user Wattsup regarding the sequence of plugging are his original observations and may (or may not) prove to have merit, but should be discussed in the other thread. Naysayers should post there.

There was also a thread on "the other forum" called "The TPU: how it might be faked" . We covered a lot of ground there including the investigation of all types of possible battery fakery and sucking power from overhead high tension wires. We discussed these things "ad nauseum". Unfortunately the forum owner at OU.com merged a lot of the thread titles into one big hodgepodge of information.

This thread is to discuss various hypothesis of what principle might be used in the TPU, assuming already it is real.

I highly recommend newcomers read in entirety "the TPU was it real?" thread and if you can find it on the other forum (OU.com) "The TPU, how it might be faked".

We also have a Hendershott thread that covers a lot of ground.

Kind regards, ION


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Agreed ION.  Back on topic...

The "crud" as Smudge offered, can we know if these were simply passive components or do we think SM had active components to generate phase angle controlled oscillations?  I have to believe SM's technical competency should answer this question.

My gut tells me the signals we need to sustain operation are already there provided we capture them with properly placed pickup coils, possibly tank circuits to create the correct amount of delay.

If we have the correct principal of operation nailed down, all the other evidence should mesh together.
   
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This thread is to discuss various hypothesis of what principle might be used in the TPU, assuming already it is real.

@ION

Sorry about that. Yes the wall plug scenario was advanced many years ago by myself, but sorry again.

It's just so perplexing that we will always have to "pretend" it's real, then leave ourselves open to so many suppositions.

I guess what I may be trying to ask is...........

What is the difference between an OU device you successfully develop yourself, or, one you eventually successfully develop based on the SM TPU videos?

But @ION, you are very right, I should have actually put that post in @GKs thread since we have been mulling over all facets there as well. Sorry again for my interjection.

wattsup



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Wattsup:

No problem, I have enjoyed many of your posts, you have done some valued work over the years and I have been in agreement with most but not all. We can agree to disagree on the differences.

For those not aware of it, Wattsup has done some of the best deciphering of the wiring and connections in most of the TPU's. This was, I am sure, painstaking work involving many hours and much eyestrain. Maybe sometime he will create a document with all of it in one place so it will not be lost, scattered through the many threads as it is now. We thank you, Wattsup!

From Matt Watts:

Quote
I have to believe SM's technical competency should answer this question.

I have no doubts about SM's technical ability. Anyone who was able to understand and repair TV sets back in the 60's and 70's know that it required a very good understanding of what the complex circuits actually did to be able to repair them. Repair was very different back then compared to today, I know, my father did TV / Radio repair starting in the early 50's and I often watched him. SM writes like a fairly intelligent person, but spelling correctly all the time was not one of his talents.

Quote
can we know if these were simply passive components or do we think SM had active components to generate phase angle controlled oscillations?

If active, probably a very simple single transistor oscillator in the small units, can't say regarding the larger devices.

Remember, in the video he says its the "knowledge of the coils and how they interact with each other" and "no mass electronics"

However they interact,  something does take time to wind down "there's a frequency pattern set up in here and it takes a while to wind down, similar to a jet turbine"

ION

P.S. If anyone is interested I can easily debate Wattsup's claim in the above post #101, but I will do it on the "TPU was it real ?" thread, just ask, because I don't have the time to chase down and rebut every cry of "fake".
« Last Edit: 2014-07-29, 00:01:38 by ION »


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Two snaps from Akula's TPU just to keep the juices flowing.

Has the effect been rediscovered...?  You be the judge.
   
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My take on it:

With no information regarding how long those LED's are lit and the power required, I'm guessing that the big storage cap is supplying all the energy.

I think in this case Akula is stealing TPU "intrigue" by building a large iron cored toroidal switched inductor using iron wire for the core in an ordinary flyback converter with low duty cycle to pulse the leds.

You can see when he disassembles the device, the horizontal innermost wire is more difficult to cut compared to the vertical copper windings, hence I believe it is an iron wire core.

If Akula could light just one 25 Watt incandescent lamp for five minutes with his setup (7500 Joules), a stand alone unit like SM, no "ground wire", I would take more interest in his work.

He is nowhere near the output power of Steve Marks smallest 3" Toroidal unit which lit a 100 Watt lamp, not to mention the larger units, yet is borrowing the "look" of the TPU.

Lighting high brightness LED's to some low level of brightness does not require much power these days. All of Akula's high power devices that lit incandescent lamps required the very suspicious "ground wire".

Can anyone do some quick calculations regarding how many Joules it would require to light that bank of LED's for the one minute or so that is shown in the video?

I just got a 27 LED high brightness flashlight from Harbor Freight and will run a test to see how much power is required for some lower level of brightness.





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I have to agree ION.  I think Akula is dabbling around the SM TPU concept, but hasn't actually hit on it yet.

I'm at a point where it seems thorough experimentation is needed.  If one of us can just get the effect and in a reproducible manner, maybe then we can engineer it to achieve the real power handling capability SM demonstrated.  My gut tells me the key is the soft iron core acting as both a magnet and a conductor with the proper placement of tuned coils that in-effect pump the core.  Having no idea what physical dimensions will be necessary, I think our only direction forward is trial-n-error, unless Smudge can work up a calculation to get us in the ballpark or at least some potential boundaries.

The part that has me most hesitant is the control circuitry.  If SM used a feedback loop that alters the pumping frequency in order to spin-up his device, going about this with a statically controlled frequency sweep is probably not going to work, unless it happens purely by accident.  The "AC hash" evidence makes me think this frequency is dynamically changing based on feedback, so we would need to estimate where this pickup signal is occurring and the propagation delay to make use of it.

I'm hopeful I will have my UniSwitches fabricated within the next couple of weeks.  If in the meantime we can come up with a reference design to begin testing with, I'm more than happy to attempt a few trials and publish results.
   
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I have to agree ION.  I think Akula is dabbling around the SM TPU concept, but hasn't actually hit on it yet.

I'm at a point where it seems thorough experimentation is needed.  If one of us can just get the effect and in a reproducible manner, maybe then we can engineer it to achieve the real power handling capability SM demonstrated.  My gut tells me the key is the soft iron core acting as both a magnet and a conductor with the proper placement of tuned coils that in-effect pump the core.  Having no idea what physical dimensions will be necessary, I think our only direction forward is trial-n-error, unless Smudge can work up a calculation to get us in the ballpark or at least some potential boundaries.

The part that has me most hesitant is the control circuitry.  If SM used a feedback loop that alters the pumping frequency in order to spin-up his device, going about this with a statically controlled frequency sweep is probably not going to work, unless it happens purely by accident.  The "AC hash" evidence makes me think this frequency is dynamically changing based on feedback, so we would need to estimate where this pickup signal is occurring and the propagation delay to make use of it.

I'm hopeful I will have my UniSwitches fabricated within the next couple of weeks.  If in the meantime we can come up with a reference design to begin testing with, I'm more than happy to attempt a few trials and publish results.

Matt:

Your thinking is exactly in line with what I also believe, especially the bold part in your statement. This would point to the use of an amplifier in the feedback loop rather than external driving fixed frequency oscillator, possibly also a tracking filter to prevent spurious modes.

What you outline is a very reasonable approach. SM's amplifier was probably a single transistor or op-amp operated in a gain controlled sine wave oscillation mode, possibly a Wien bridge to avoid hard switching or saturation and yet track the rising amplitude, just my guess.

A viable approach needs to take into consideration the many versions SM produced. 

Regarding the Akula LED's I was able to drive 24 of the front LED's to Akula's "approximate brightness" with 1 mA at 2.6 volts. I will need to open this flashlight to sense if there is an internal flyback switcher for a better guess at the peak LED current.

So that is 2.6 milliwatts, very low for 24 LED's. A one Farad capacitor with 2.6 volts = 3.38 Joules or 3.38 Watt-seconds. So the lights would be good for approximately 1300 seconds or 21.6 minutes. I'll bet he used a higher voltage lower uF cap to keep his circuit alive.

Regards, ION


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I think our only direction forward is trial-n-error, unless Smudge can work up a calculation to get us in the ballpark or at least some potential boundaries.

Taking SM's smaller unit that gave out something like 60V where SM stated the frequency to be about 7 KHz.  If a single wire is vibrating in a field from a PM and the face of the PM is about 5 cm we need an induced E field of 1200 V/m to get 60 V.  We could have a B field near that face of say 1 Tesla, then the sideways velocity from v = E/ B is 1200 m/S.  Taking that as a peak velocity then the peak displacement is 1200/omega meters which gives 2.7 cm.  With two magnets the displacement is 1.35 cm.  Is there room inside SM's hoops for that movement?  If SM used 70 KHz then the displacement is only 1.35 mm which seems more reasonable.  However those figures are for a single loop and SM may have used say 10 turns of Fe wire in which case the 1.35 mm applies to the 7 KHz frequency.

So the big question is can that sort of displacement be conjured up from the Earth's magnetic scalar potential and that must come down to experimentation.  Note this does not require sophisticated frequency synthesis, pulses or multiple frequencies, just a N pole chasing a S pole around the hoop at 7 KHz which can be done with a sine wave.  So I would start with 10 turns of thin insulated Fe wire wound on something light or even not on a former but taped together into a hoop.  That hoop needs hanging on perhaps three or four nylon threads so that it can freely vibrate in the horizontal plane without restriction.  Now place four drive coils around that hoop of sufficient diameter to allow that movement within them.  Of course those four coils need to be mounted rigidly.  The drive those coils at the correct phasing and note whether the Fe hoop actually vibrates.

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I have all the materials on hand to build this, solid 14 Ga and stranded 18 Ga pure iron T/C grade. I have a large assortment of hallow center drive coils already on hand.

Just a matter of getting to it , on my "to do" list. You can be sure it will be soon.


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Here is what I would consider a test that might prove the rotation or alignment of something in the iron wire:

The frequency should gradually increase each time around the loop. This should not be due to heating of the wire or the drive coils or drift of the amplifier due to self heating, but rather the rotation forcing or finding a preferred path or alignment through the metal.

As an example of a possibly related acoustical effect, do this experiment:

Make yourself a cup of very hot chocolate. A straight walled, cylindrical  cup works best.

Notice that when you sharply tap on the rim of the cup with the spoon, the frequency increases with each tap.

Stir the chocolate, what for it to settle then start tapping again. You will notice the frequency starts at a very low point and again goes up in frequency with each tap and does not seem to find an upper limit.

Notice the frequency is not temperature dependent, you can repeat the test and go from the low to high frequency several times, even as the cup cools.

We know that tuning forks do not change frequency when tapped. Would it be reasonable to assume there may be a related electro-acoustical effect to the above described strictly acoustical effect.

What is being aligned that causes the increase in audible ringing frequency? Is it possibly related to what we are looking for?

Or could it be an inertial effect of something rotating that picks up speed? That in itself would be interesting for a device without a physical rotor.
« Last Edit: 2014-08-04, 23:41:16 by ION »


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Here is my revised paper on electrodynamic inertia.  I now consider it possible that
(a) the presence of a magnet near the Fe hoop or loop induced a pole on the hoop,
(b) a coil wound round the Fe wire will try to move that pole along the wire,
(c) in the Earth's northern hemisphere a S pole on the wire will endure negative inertia hence be unstable,
(d) it only requires a kick to get that pole to move along the wire then the negative inertia takes over,
(e) the pole moves until restrained by the pull-back force of the magnet, then moves back in the other direction,
(f) that constitutes a resonant system so if driven by a series of kicks the pole oscillates back and forth quite significantly,
(g) since the movement is along a curved path there is also radial acceleration invoking centrifugal-like forces on the pole hence the wire vibrates,
(h) that vibration under the magnet induces voltage into the Fe loop.

Enjoy!

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Fantastic paper Smudge, Thanks, we certainly need to get some time in on this.
   
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Fantastic paper Smudge, Thanks, we certainly need to get some time in on this.


Agreed, worthy of experiment, thanks again Smudge.


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ION, have we placed any emphasis on the material used?

I was watching an old Boyd Bushman video early today and noticed something I didn't pay attention to before.

He did the magnet through the tube bit with a copper tube and an aluminum tube--magnet falls at normal speed through the aluminum and is slowed down by the copper.   Check.

Then he did the coil levitation bit with a copper coil energized with AC floating above an aluminum plate and mentioned this won't work with a copper plate or DC.  Check.

For some reason this got me thinking about the TPU.  Do you suppose having aluminum wire in the proper place could make the difference here?  Steven did a fair amount of work with audio speakers correct?  Do you suppose he may have tried something with aluminum wire (maybe in the voice coil) that did something other than what he suspected it would?  Is this a possible avenue to retrace his steps?

I can't help but think somehow aluminum can be used as a pump to get the electrical flow to go in the direction we want without forcing it with electronics.

Also notable:  Wasn't the TPU timeframe approximately after electricians started phasing out the use of aluminum wire?  So there would be a lot of it around no longer usable.
   
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Hi Matt

Interesting thoughts you have raised. Aluminum may hae been used in some voice coils as it is much lighter than copper but it also has higher resistivity. How this trades off would be an interesting research project. Also the aluminum would be prone to vibrate acoustically at a higher resonant frequency due to the lower mass.

Whether there are unique properties to aluminum, I do not know. What we do know is iron wire or some other magnetically attractive wire was used in first version of the large 17 inch device where he used a magnet to swipe around the periphery of the device. In the later 17 inch device this magnet swiping was no longer required, as he used an over winding to provide a magnetic bias and presumably a preferred alignment of domains in the ferrous wire. These are my assumptions at this time.

More discussion and video here: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=351.msg25657#msg25657

ION


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The craziness continues!

It seems the guy who made the first videos is now revealing how to make the coil.   

I have a strong feeling the demos are fake, but I don't know how he's faking them.  I don't think he is hiding batteries by drilling in the magnet, maybe the foam is hiding the battery.  Induction would be too weak and rectification kind of hard to explain.

Here's the HD video he posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=channel%3A53fdf21c-0000-21c3-92c6-001a1140b612&feature=iv&src_vid=WQRPlzf1cLA&v=3A8q-iPKUtA


   
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I have a strong feeling the demos are fake, but I don't know how he's faking them.

Probably video editing.  Go to YouTube and search on Freddie Wong.  You'll get the idea.
   
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