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Author Topic: The TPU principle rediscovered!  (Read 73742 times)
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It's turtles all the way down
Rojas gives a pretty convincing explanation as to why this version of the TPU is a fake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRSGjC0K4bw

I don't no why you are calling that device in the video a TPU, it has absolutely nothing in common with the TPU seen in the videos of Steve Mark.

Yes that device is fake, many of us knew that when it first appeared. It is not a version of the TPU, not even close.

The TPU of Steve Mark is another matter entirely.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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The TPU of Steve Mark is another matter entirely.

One might even go so far as to say the Steven Mark TPU is a device containing technology not of this world.

 :)
   
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I don't no why you are calling that device in the video a TPU, it has absolutely nothing in common with the TPU seen in the videos of Steve Mark.

Yes that device is fake, many of us knew that when it first appeared. It is not a version of the TPU, not even close.

The TPU of Steve Mark is another matter entirely.

I said this version of the TPU.
Why did I call it that? 
Because it is listed in a thread called The TPU principle rediscovered.
I don't think I mentioned Steve Mark.
I quite frankly don't see a problem  unless TPU refers exclusively to any and only torroidal "generators" built by Steve Mark.
If my terminology was  screwed up then I stand corrected.
   
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To GFT
A lot of people here hero worship SM,so are very sensitive to anyone
saying bad things about SM.He was a conman from the word go,a
fact people here refuse to admit,he made videos to attract
investors never delivered anything just cheated them,this
is why a lot of skeptics believe hes a cheap conman.
He made all the tpu's himself with no help of any kind from anyone
 nor did he share information with anyone. 
As to does the device work, most are real a few can be shown to be  possible
fakes,the way SM told people how hes device works is not true,thats a lie.
Most members concerning SM here have there minds closed, theres no point in posting,
beside I work alone better,I can't stand heroworshipping,either of SM or Tesla.


   

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tExB=qr
GFT's work indicates other means of electric induction.  I suggest we become more familiar with these and explore them further.

GFT is not aware of the original "TPU's" of Steven Mark design.  If he makes a mistake in analogies or references, let's cut him some slack, and make a kind correction.

GFT also is not aware of the AVEC or tetrahedral designs that "spherics" provided, the the name "AVEC" (Aether Vortex Energy Convert - my term not "spherics' term).  He and I have discussed the operating principles of these devices, which was determined most likely to be a simulated rotating electric field perpendicular to a static magnetic field.  I believe this is the same method of induction used in Steven Mark's TPU's.

   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
I, for one, believe the TPUs are real. I think SM was actually using arbitrary and slight of hand labels and descriptions to expose what he could without getting into trouble. Having been involved with technical demos and Non Disclosure Agreements I can say SM really dances around the technical descriptions quite well. If you step back and dislodge yourself from your edu bent one can see the reapplication of terms, still meaningful but avoids any EUC leaking.
Now with that being said I believe anybody that has gone down this rabbit hole has by now come up with devices and products that are not allowed in the public sector. I have a number of them and am quite pleased with myself and this journey.
But this is just my take.

And there are lurkers watching and waiting to pounce.


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It's turtles all the way down
I highly admire both GFT and Smudge for their ability to provide insights and mathematical corrections to electrodynamic theory. They are both miles above my understanding of the subject, still I try.

Grumpy said:

Quote
GFT is not aware of the original "TPU's" of Steven Mark design.  If he makes a mistake in analogies or references, let's cut him some slack, and make a kind correction.

Sorry if it sounded like a harsh correction, it wasn't meant that way.

TPU stands for "Toroidal Power Unit". The posted video of the fake device is not a toroidal power unit. Why it was even posted in this thread is beyond me and has caused the confusion.

My remarks were not meant to be unkind, just statement of info as I have come to know it, but the limited bandwidth of the textual format often leaves out important and subtle linguistic cues.

Quote
GFT's work indicates other means of electric induction.  I suggest we become more familiar with these and explore them further.

The proof of the pudding is in the tasting or in this case, testing. Any major revision of basic theory should result in a "proof of concept" lab experiment. I look forward to this, providing it can be devised.

From cheapower2012:

Quote
To GFT
A lot of people here hero worship SM,so are very sensitive to anyone
saying bad things about SM.He was a conman from the word go,a
fact people here refuse to admit,he made videos to attract
investors never delivered anything just cheated them,this
is why a lot of skeptics believe hes a cheap conman.
He made all the tpu's himself with no help of any kind from anyone
 nor did he share information with anyone.
As to does the device work, most are real a few can be shown to be  possible
fakes,the way SM told people how hes device works is not true,thats a lie.
Most members concerning SM here have there minds closed, theres no point in posting,
beside I work alone better,I can't stand heroworshipping,either of SM or Tesla.

I can understand your disdain for hero worship of either SM or Tesla, as I feel the same.

Not everyone on this forum hero worships SM or believes everything he said as factual, or if it was even SM saying certain things that were attributed to him. A lot of disinfo poisoned the well.

It is important to understand that Brian Collins orchestrated most of the cons that went down, but I'm not implying SM was totally innocent either.

As for the videos, they were too poorly made to attract investors, and to me appear to be just video documentation of events.

I, for one have enjoyed your posts and believe you are skilled and have a lot to contribute should you at some time so decide, but we respect your desire to work alone.

Kind Regards to all

ION


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Ion,
All's good.  Didn't mean to cause any problems.

But if these experiments are any indication the induction equations might- I repeat, might -be on firm footing.

He said:
[Quote from: WaveWatcher on Today at 19:08:37
Be prepared to separate the magnet and the sensor with an electrostatic shield lest you become confused with false positives. Aluminum foil works well.

Yes, others have done the experiment. The reported results varied. I concluded that an electrostatic charge applied to the magnet does increase the magnetic field density.]

I replied:
Which means a current is induced. (a changing  or increasing magnetic field induces a current)
Thus Ex(-B)=qr/t



   
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Big question is, would this effect an air cored  electromagnet too?
Thinking TPU here.
If so could a rotating radio wave do the same?
( 2 HF antennas being fed slightly out of tune to each other has this rotational effect when you view their PPI.)
   
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Big question is, would this effect an air cored  electromagnet too?
Thinking TPU here.
If so could a rotating radio wave do the same?
( 2 HF antennas being fed slightly out of tune to each other has this rotational effect when you view their PPI.)

When I first saw this video, that thought went through my mind also:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHswoNpc0Tk

I thought the two loops wound at the edges of the wire spool could be the loop antennas.

Unfortunately he does not show any power, just 62 volts DC which is easy to generate from a tiny battery.


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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I've not seen too many of the video's including this one, but, why in heavens name hasn't the bottom coil been affected by the case? It appears of an old design and in the 70's all this style were steel.. Watch picking up the magnet at 52 second in.
Am I missing something here or is your comment on a tiny battery more likely?
How the coils work comment made me grin like a Cheshire cat when placed on the  apparent metallic surface.

I like a laugh, this tickled me greatly.
   
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHswoNpc0Tk

I thought the two loops wound at the edges of the wire spool could be the loop antennas.

"Put together with bailing wire."

With everyone using copper wire these days, I'd say most replication attempts have been over engineered.

ION, do you have an good close-ups of that little gizmo?
   
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"Put together with bailing wire."

With everyone using copper wire these days, I'd say most replication attempts have been over engineered.

ION, do you have an good close-ups of that little gizmo?

The video I referenced (uploaded at 360p) is about the crispest we have, you can frame capture from that. Somewhere there are High 8 videos from Jack Durban that may be better. I don't know enough about video formats to determine this.

Attached is the best I have. Maybe others have better.

Blowing this shot up does not increase detail.

We need people that can use photo tools to do video enhancement or frame combining of the images to increase resolution, if you know anyone.

Cheers, ION


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Been thinking about that magnetic induced inertia that I posted recently.  It strikes me we can easily get magnetic poles moving round a Fe wire loop at quite a rate, then that fast movement (much greater than could be achieved with moving magnets) can get a centrifugal-like force on the wire except (unlike moving mass) here the N and S poles see opposite directed forces.  Thus the thin Fe wire will distort and at a mechanical resonance of the loop the movement could be quite significant.  If we can obtain energy from that radial movement I can't see how that would reflect onto the coils creating the rotation, more likely the energy is being extracted from the Earth's magnetic field via the scalar magnetic potential.  So we need some additional magnetic field so that the radial in-out movement induces voltage into the Fe loop.  The attached pdf shows the scheme.  Sorry about the poor final image, creating 3D pictures in PowerPoint is a pain.

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OK, I've done some calcs using formula from my paper "On Electromagnetic Inertia and Thrust".  When I wrote that I had in mind a thrust generator, I didn't grasp its significance in respect of a possible explanation for the TPU.  The relevant formula is equation (19) which gives you the force for a magnetic pole rotating at a radius at angular velocity omega.  The Bsat is the saturation flux density of the Fe wire, s is its cross section area and l is the radius of the loop. Phi-m is the earth's scalar magnetic field.  The killer there is the c^2 which knocks the force figure right down.  But we are breaking new ground here because AFAIK no on else has come up with this suggestion for conjuring up force from the scalar potential.  I have re-examined that formula to check that it is dimensionally correct and I am happy with it.  But what I don't know is whether the c^2 should actually be propagation velocity squared, and that opens up a door to get useful numbers.  If we could include the relative mu of the Fe and the dielectric constant of whatever surrounds the wire that would be good, we could multiply my poor results by 10^4 or even 10^5.  So it needs an experiment to see whether we can conjure up enough force to "pluck" the wire, perhaps by just observing the wire for vibratory movement.  The cork substrate on which the SM wire is wound makes sense because you don't want to lose force bending that substrate.  The more I look at this the more convinced I become that we have discovered why the SM machine works, it uses coils to create N and S poles in the wire in such a way that those poles move along the wire, and the wire being in a circle that movement conjures up centrifugal-like forces from the earth's magnetic scalar potential, and those forces "pluck" the wire like a guitar string.  My suggestion is for sine waves, but it is possible to come up with a system that uses pulses.  The output will be AC or pulses but they can easily be rectified into DC.  And the energy doesn't come from the thing creating the sine waves or pulses, that just creates the pole movement.  The output power comes from those forces conjured up by the movement, and I am pretty sure that the energy actually comes from the earth's inner rotating molten core that is responsible for its magnetism.  Of course you can argue that molten core is not a renewable source, if we slow it down it will  eventually stop rotating  :o.  So SM's tiny battery hidden iniside his machine is enough to get it started, then it self sustains.

Smudge
   
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Smudge

Take a look at this video, it seems to conform to your last drawing using the magnets. Note SM's placement of the magnets at 00:50 seconds in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58L73U4sgTE

Regarding this video, those of us that have studied it can easily debunk it with the "batteries in the lamp bases" hypothesis. We have gone down that road quite deeply already and this would be easy to fake based on that premise.

But personally I don't believe it was faked because of subtle video cues. He also later replaces the blue outlet box with (as an addendum http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxLpaydM4eg) a direct connection, not shown in this video edition.

Regarding the vibrating Fe wire, I am in agreement, however, will the induced voltage of the inward movement cancel the voltage produced by the simultaneous outward movement? ( ? unless the earth magnetic field is reversed at those positions? )

In SM's largest units, and the smaller of the video I just referenced ordinary twin lead lamp wire was wound in what some of us believe was a continuous  loop around the device, but it may have been wound in 4 segments on the "smaller open frame TPU", which is what we call the one in this video.

The smaller device shown in the video was wound on molded plastic speaker grille hoops used in the manufacture of the tower pipe transmission line speakers. This has been confirmed to me in private email by Jack Durban. They scrapped thousands of these hoops when the company went under, SM grabbed a few. You will see original speaker designs using the hoops ( top and bottom of the pipe) in the attached design patent.

If there is iron wire on these hoops it would have to be a thin circumferential layer that the twin lead winds over the top.

If you are not familiar or have not been studying the TPU from the onset, beware of fake videos on youtube advertising a working TPU, most are later built hoaxes or other non working devices. We can point you to the correct SM original videos.

Kind Regards
ION


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Regarding the vibrating Fe wire, I am in agreement, however, will the induced voltage of the inward movement cancel the voltage produced by the simultaneous outward movement? ( ? unless the earth magnetic field is reversed at those positions? )

It would if the magnets there gave the same field direction, but that would be silly, it is movement through the field from the four sets of magnets that induces the potential..  We ensure that the magnets at alternate positions around the loop have oppositely directed fields so now the inward movement and outward movement voltages add.  Forget about the earth's field, this device uses the static potential not the field (the H field is simply the spatial gradient of that potential).  The actual scalar potential is huge, like over 100 million amps at the earth's N and S poles, and I am convinced the SM machine somehow uses that huge resource.

Quote
In SM's largest units, and the smaller of the video I just referenced ordinary twin lead lamp wire was wound in what some of us believe was a continuous  loop around the device, but it may have been wound in 4 segments on the "smaller open frame TPU", which is what we call the one in this video.

The smaller device shown in the video was wound on molded plastic speaker grille hoops used in the manufacture of the tower pipe transmission line speakers. This has been confirmed to me in private email by Jack Durban. They scrapped thousands of these hoops when the company went under, SM grabbed a few. You will see original speaker designs using the hoops ( top and bottom of the pipe) in the attached design patent.

If there is iron wire on these hoops it would have to be a thin circumferential layer that the twin lead winds over the top.

And would have to be free to vibrate with that inward-outward movement, so it may have been on the flat surface of the hoop like a pancake coil.  There does seem to be four coils, one on each segment of the lower hoop, but I can't see the overlapping coils that are in my scheme.

Quote
If you are not familiar or have not been studying the TPU from the onset, beware of fake videos on youtube advertising a working TPU, most are later built hoaxes or other non working devices. We can point you to the correct SM original videos.

I saw most of the videos years ago but only recently has my mind found a potential (pun not intended ;) ) route to follow to find the answer.

Smudge
   
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Smudge

If you get a chance, download and review patent #NL1033157 on this page: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2469.msg39148#msg39148.

It uses a different approach we think, similar to the Barbat patent  (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=457.0) in some ways i.e. talking high speed free electrons on a thin surface layer of the wire.

SM said one of his devices worked well with "corroded wire"
quoting SM:
Quote
By the way, something strange is that, once I made a unit with some old corroded wire for the collector and it worked very well for it's size. I made another identical collector with shiny new wire and it did not work quite as well. I never found out why, but there was a difference.

and interestingly:
Quote
The first successful unit I made put out 5 volts. Next I made a unit that put out 20 volts, and that took me about 8 months. I didn't make a truly successful unit till I could get 60 volts at 100 watts and that took me almost two years. I demonstrated it and got research capital and engineering help. off we went until we got 1000 volts and ten amps. we stopped because we knew we had achieved a real fantastic breakthrough in power that would change the world.  
It was just too big for us. Sad, isn't it?

Barbat speaks of oxidized copper wire. DeGeus talks of a thin silver or other conductive coating over the wire.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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ION

Maybe it was sarcasm. WHat kind of shiny wire SM used ? I guess ordinary one, right ?
   
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Looking at that 60 volt 120 watt unit it has four coils around the lower hoop.  Although I showed eight coils yielding two N poles and two S poles moving around the hoop, it can also be done with four coils yielding just one N pole and one S pole.  Then it needs just two magnets in diametrically opposite positions which you see SM apply.  And the pick off coil need not be the Fe one, it could be done with a closed hoop of Fe tape that creates the vibration, having a copper coil wound onto it, rather like a huge loudspeaker coil.  Then the Fe tape does not have to be conductive, it could be a plastic hoop coated with ferromagnetic particles.  The attached images tell the story.

Another point to note is that we do not know what magnetic scalar potential might surround us coming from the Universe, we could be in a scalar potential much greater than that from the Earth.  And that could explain why my calculations show a weak effect, whereas the SM evidence is it is a strong effect.

Smudge
   
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Here are a few more images that tell the story of force conjured up from the Earth's scalar magnetic potential.  This should give some idea of the translatory circular movement of the Fe hoop (it moves like an orbital sander).  I'll eventually incorporate all this new stuff into my paper on magnetic inertia.

Smudge
   
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Thanks for all the drawings, These are  very helpful in visualizing the forces that might be occurring.

Regarding TPU scheme 2, you show a copper loop attached to the FE loop. This is logical to keep losses to a minimum, but it adds mass to the vibrating Fe wire possibly damping it severely. I believe SM only used the FE loop and is why his units got so hot, the higher resistivity of iron wire vs. copper wire dissipated appreciable power.

Tests I ran some time back showed that you could not heat e.g. 22 ga copper wire with one amp to become too hot to touch. You need at least 10 amps. With iron wire, it is a different matter..

In the video with the large 17" diameter device, he used a Radio Shack indoor / outdoor thermometer monitoring a portion of the assembly and would interrupt the test if things got too hot.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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In the video with the large 17" diameter device, he used a Radio Shack indoor / outdoor thermometer monitoring a portion of the assembly and would interrupt the test if things got too hot.

So ION, do we think the output load is connected directly to the iron core loop?

The reason I ask is because in those videos where SM shorts the output and make the huge flame, he is extremely nervous.  My take on that reaction is that he did this behind closed doors a time or two and the test unit blew-up and scared him pretty good.

The other aspect I'm still rather confused about is how the entire unit was self sustaining without any sophisticated controllers.  He must have driven the control coils from the output power and that output power must have had the necessary harmonics/frequencies in it to keep the whole thing in operation--nothing like Akula's TPU.  Durban stated to Sterling Allan in an interview that Steven seemed very concerned the device was so simple, anyone could have replicated it had they actually saw Steven build one.  If that's true, there has to be a basic geometric pattern involved--i.e. the coils on one side connect to the coils on the other side, or similar.  We just need to find this pattern that fits with Smudge's analysis.
   
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Matt,

I thought I had shown the coil connections needed to drive the poles around the hoop in my TPU scheme2.jpg.  If they are not clear enough then please shout and I'll do something better.  The theory is those poles moving in a circle undergo constant inward acceleration and that induces force on the poles because of the presence of a magnetic scalar potential.  That causes the hoop to oscillate like the platten of an orbital sander, and that motion within the field of the fixed permanent magnets induces voltage into the hoop.

Ion,

I take your point about increased mass and it certainly looks as though SM used his Fe loop as the conductor.

Smudge

Smudge
   
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I thought I had shown the coil connections needed to drive the poles around the hoop in my TPU scheme2.jpg.  If they are not clear enough then please shout and I'll do something better.

I'm good with your layout--makes perfect sense and thank you for posting it.  Where I'm personally stuck is what is driving those coils.  Are they hooked to the collector coil?  Directly?  With a cap in series?  Another inductor?  That's where I'm lost.  If we assume there is no advanced control logic and driver transistors, then everything we need to drive these control coils is already there, someplace.  I just can't see where.
   
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