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OverUnity Research > Motors > Permanent Magnet Motors > Monopole magnet motor?
2024-04-18, 16:32:08
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Author Topic: Monopole magnet motor?  (Read 40806 times)
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img  tinman
Re: Monopole magnet motor? « Reply #25 on: 2013-08-29, 09:05:35 »
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Who can tell me what the pic below is,and how it work's?. I'm guessing most of you will know what it is,but do you know what action takes place inside to switch the PM field on and off,so as it either sticks to the steel bench-or doesn't?.
Also,how many have bothered to see how much force it takes to turn the switch,and how much attraction force to the steel bench is gained?.

Now,what if it took no force at all to turn the switch,and yet we gained the same attraction force to the steel bench-would that be useful ?.

My questions to you all.
1-who believes this can be done,and how?
2-who believes it cant be done,and why.

The two questions above are very important to me and future event's,and if you are serious enough about this topic-please answer the two questions in whole.
   
img  Paul-R
Re: Monopole magnet motor? « Reply #26 on: 2013-08-29, 15:56:27 »
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Quote from: tinman on 2013-08-29, 09:05:35
Who can tell me what the pic below is,and how it works?
It is a moveable bench vice. I thought that the switch rotates a cam like mechanism which moves an internal magnet up and down, the down position fixing it to a magnetic bench (but not a wooden one, thereby rendering it almost entirely worthless.
   
img  BEP
Re: Monopole magnet motor? « Reply #27 on: 2013-08-29, 21:14:31 »
Group: Guest
It is a mechanical version of the space boots.

The knob rotates a cylindrical magnet with the poles on opposites side of the diameter.
When the magnet poles are horizontal the field is conducted through each iron half to whatever iron surface it is in contact with.
When the magnet poles are vertical the field is evenly distributed through both iron halves and therefore doesn't attract the outside iron surfaces very well at all.

I have four of those types and a couple each of some other types.

I think the point is that rotating that internal magnet takes very little energy yet when attracting an external surface there is a great deal of pull when up very close.
It would seem you are controlling a great deal of energy with very little energy but it boils down to a lever like action similar to pushing down on a lever for a few feet to lift a thousand pounds one inch.
   
img  tinman
Re: Monopole magnet motor? « Reply #28 on: 2013-08-30, 13:17:35 »
Group: Guest
@WW
Quote:It would seem you are controlling a great deal of energy with very little energy but it boils down to a lever like action similar to pushing down on a lever for a few feet to lift a thousand pounds one inch.

And what if it required no energy to flip the switch(so to speak),and a large attraction force was gained.Then once again,no energy required to eliminate that attraction force(flipping the switch back)
When i say no energy to flip the switch,i mean only what is required to overcome bearing friction-which you must agree,is very little.

This was one of the two questions i posted above-do you think this can be done?.And how would you do it.
   
img  Paul-R
Re: Monopole magnet motor? « Reply #29 on: 2013-08-30, 15:28:57 »
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All this reminds me of the "Fanner principle" used to separate sheets of ferromagnetic material
by applying a magnet to the edges of the sheets, inducing magnetic fields in the sheets which are
of the same polarity, thereby causing repulsion and separating the sheets of steel.

Buch LaFonte used this idea:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:LaFonte_Perpendicular_Magnetics_Motor
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Monopole magnet motor? « Reply #30 on: 2013-08-30, 15:54:42 »
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@Wave watcher
Quote
The knob rotates a cylindrical magnet with the poles on opposites side of the diameter.
When the magnet poles are horizontal the field is conducted through each iron half to whatever iron surface it is in contact with.
When the magnet poles are vertical the field is evenly distributed through both iron halves and therefore doesn't attract the outside iron surfaces very well at all.

I would agree and we should remember that force in itself means nothing unless the force acts over a distance. Now when we place the magnetic vise on a metal surface the distance is zero thus the work (Force x Distance) becomes practically zero. I suspect the switch is easy to turn because the flux paths are near equal when on a metal surface however if it was a distance away from the surface this would not be the case. There is always a catch, lol.

AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  BEP
Re: Monopole magnet motor? « Reply #31 on: 2013-08-30, 17:28:10 »
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Quote from: tinman on 2013-08-30, 13:17:35
And what if it required no energy to flip the switch(so to speak),and a large attraction force was gained.Then once again,no energy required to eliminate that attraction force(flipping the switch back)
When i say no energy to flip the switch,i mean only what is required to overcome bearing friction-which you must agree,is very little.

This was one of the two questions i posted above-do you think this can be done?.And how would you do it.

I don't know how it could be done with just enough energy to overcome frictional losses.

The lines of magnetic force tend to stay with the path they are currently connected unless that path is beyond saturation and a better path presents itself.

Now, there is a thought....

Controlled pole saturation motor? If done correctly the energy needed to take a motor pole beyond saturation need only be for a very short period and should require very little energy. Once the pole is saturated the force lines of the magnet would seek out another path.

Edit>>>

I'm calling it the 'Mag-Amp Permanent Magnet Motor'  O0

IT IS DOABLE !
« Last Edit: 2013-08-31, 00:01:18 by WaveWatcher »
   
img  BEP
Re: Monopole magnet motor? « Reply #32 on: 2013-08-30, 17:31:21 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: Paul-R on 2013-08-30, 15:28:57
All this reminds me of the "Fanner principle" used to separate sheets of ferromagnetic material
by applying a magnet to the edges of the sheets, inducing magnetic fields in the sheets which are
of the same polarity, thereby causing repulsion and separating the sheets of steel.

Buch LaFonte used this idea:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:LaFonte_Perpendicular_Magnetics_Motor


I remember that  ;D

When I told Butch he couldn't patent the idea because the concept was as old as the hills he blew a cork  :o
   
img  tinman
Re: Monopole magnet motor? « Reply #33 on: 2013-08-31, 00:44:25 »
Group: Guest
Well many here pride them self on knowing what the magnetic fields look like,and how they react within the enviroment they are place within.
So who would like to have a go at showing how the fields would look around the outside of the steel pipe below?, and how the thickness of the pipe and strength of the magnet would change thing's.
   
img  BEP
Re: Monopole magnet motor? « Reply #34 on: 2013-09-03, 10:40:21 »
Group: Guest
tinman,

From the way you formed your question I would say that you already know the answer but I'll take a stab at it.

Whether or not the magnetic forces from the magnet have an effect outside of the pipe depend on whether or not it can saturate the pipe material. The pipe thickness, permeability, spacing to the magnet and strength of the magnet all have an effect upon how much flux leakage occurs.

To increase flux leakage you could increase the magnet's strength, decrease the pipe wall thickness or decrease the gap between the magnet and pipe.
Reverse any of the above to decrease the flux leakage.

A novel way to control flux leakage would be to use the same pipe piece as a coil form and vary current through the coil for control.
   
img  tinman
Re: Monopole magnet motor? « Reply #35 on: 2013-09-03, 12:07:38 »
Group: Guest
@ WW
Yes ,of course you are correct.
Like i said before,insted of trying to bend,curve,or deflect the field of the magnet,maybe we should be trying to neutralise the attraction of the pipe to the magnet itself. I'm sure you have done similar before,like the muller motor(kind of)where if you place a magnet on a piece of iron or steel(any magnetic material)of the right thickness for the field strength,another magnet with like pole's will neither stick to or be repelled by the steel piece-it reaches a neutral state when the material thickness is correct.
Problem is with flat plate,is the force required to shift one magnet once the other is removed. Well this is where the tube comes into play,as we have an equal force around the whole magnet,and the net force required to turn the magnet 90* is zero. If we tried to turn that same magnet near a flat plate,we would get serious coging,but not while it is inside the pipe.
   
img  EMdevices
Re: Monopole magnet motor? « Reply #36 on: 2013-09-13, 09:50:42 »
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A lot of poor souls fall into this trap, i have as well in the past.

Statics and Dynamics are very different.  You can conceptualize and build a magnetic device where statically it has zero resistance to movement, because the forces and torques all balance out in every configuration or angular position, example: cam shaft and spring perfectly matching the magnetic attraction of a rotor to stator pole. So then you try to use it dynamically, and resistive forces appear.  Oops!

EM
   
img  tinman
Re: Monopole magnet motor? « Reply #37 on: 2013-09-13, 11:55:40 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: EMdevices on 2013-09-13, 09:50:42
A lot of poor souls fall into this trap, i have as well in the past.

EM
Lol,yes i have aswell. But one day that poor soul will be the soul that cracks it.
   
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