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Author Topic: Sine to Square  (Read 41035 times)
Group: Tech Wizard
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Does anyone who was around back when Erfinder was posting in this thread remember the coil configuration pictures he showed to produce the sine to square wave? 



Hi Dave,

I believe I found the Bucking versus series.png picture on my old hard drive but I cannot find  Picture 155.jpg and Picture 156.jpg ones,  probably I did not save them.

The picture I attach is very likely the 3rd one Erfinder uploaded to his deleted post. I hope I am not mistaken.

Gyula 




   
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Hi Dave,

I believe I found the Bucking versus series.png picture on my old hard drive but I cannot find  Picture 155.jpg and Picture 156.jpg ones,  probably I did not save them.

The picture I attach is very likely the 3rd one Erfinder uploaded to his deleted post. I hope I am not mistaken.

Gyula

Thank you Gyula.  I had found that one somewhere years ago when scavenging the internet for Erfinder insights.  It's too bad that the schematic doesn't add much insight without a picture of the coils' actual position with relation to the rotor.  I appreciate your efforts.

Dave
   
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Hi Dave,

Thinking on his coils position with bucking poles to compress their magnetic flux, there has to be a certain angle for the coils axis where the resulting inductance
of their series connection is very close to their resulting inductance found in normal series connection.
This would be needed to make comparable input power for the two cases in the schematic, for bucking coils may have less or more resulting inductance, depending on their magnetic coupling
(positive or negative mutual inductance influencing the resulting inductance).

Here this is discussed under subtitle Differentially Coupled Series Inductors https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/inductor/series-inductors.html
The two coils are drawn to have a common axis i.e. the bucking poles face each other, giving much lower resulting inductance for the series coil (coupling dependent of course).
Of course the facing magnetic S poles indicated in the middle do not cancel but their flux are compressed, making the field more dense.

Thoughts are welcome. Erfinder wrote a few times he was not interested in measuring input or output power but we cannot assume he was not aware of the reducing inductance for the bucking coils case...   :D

Hopefully a member here will find the missing pictures to learn about his coil positions.

Gyula
   

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I believe I found the Bucking versus series.png picture on my old hard drive but I cannot find  Picture 155.jpg and Picture 156.jpg ones,  probably I did not save them.
Peterae must have them in an old backup.
   
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The two configurations are identical in principle, the only difference being the value of the equivalent inductance L=L1+L2+2M, where M is the mutual inductance.

Depending on whether the series connection is normal or bucking, M is positive or negative. In the latter case, the inductance is much lower, favoring higher frequencies and leading to the possibility of resonance at certain frequencies of the square-wave signal spectrum. Moreover, operation is considerably altered between the two cases, as the parasitic capacitances of the transistor, diodes and windings no longer have the same relative impedance to that of the equivalent inductance. The 2 circuits can therefore behave completely differently, so comparing them is of little relevance.

The force between the 2 coils is attractive in the 1st case and repulsive in the second, but this is only a mutual influence of the charges circulating in the two coils. As far as the magnetic field is concerned, we can't say there's any “compression”: there is a simple superposition of the fields and the forces are only on the charges.


---------------------------
"Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"
   

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Buy me some coffee
Wavewatcher,

Please don't misunderstand, I truly appreciate your suggestion, I have looked into it, however, "bench tests" have revealed time and time again that  pulse motors under normal circumstances don't allow you to capitalize on the generator action when you pull the plug.  I have tried them all, from B€dini to Adams and everything in between, and multiple variations of all of them, none allow you to do what I have found.  I don't know if you are in the position to test what I have suggested, if you can please do so.  If you cannot I understand.  It is extremely important that you experience the effect first hand, see the difference for yourself. 

It seems to me that the effect is more like a capacitor discharge.  The the speed and intensity of the charging is likened to that experienced when a capacitor is made to charge another capacitor.  When the system is properly balanced, there is no drag produced during this charging period, regardless of the size of the buffer capacitor.  This has to be experienced to believe.  I am not asking anyone to take my word for anything, nor believe what you see in the videos, I am suggesting, asking, as humbly as I know how for those who are in the position to test, do so.  Experience this for yourself. 

Attached is the basic two coil setup that generates the effect.  There are two six strand coils.  Coil one has all of its strands paralleled, the same is done with coil two.  The coils are then configured in Bucking series (Natural Series).   

Inductance = 13.7mH
Resistance  = 0.8 ohm

You are not limited to the values that I have mentioned here...if you are going to use cored solenoids like I am showing here, I recommend you use coils which have higher inductance than mine.  When you connect the coils in this manner, the scope will show the second wave in the Fourier Series.  That is the indication that you have setup the device correctly.

Orthogonal air cores outperform iron core coils.  I believe this is because the iron doesn't allow the higher frequency oscillations to manifest, choke.  We don't want a choke.   


Regards
   
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Great find Peter,  thanks for your searching efforts.

Gyula
   
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Thank you, Peter.  This adds some much needed visual context to the messages of Erfinder's that I have archived.

I find the individual strand butt splicing between the two coils to be particularly interesting.  This seems like it would lend a layer of capacitive energy storage and exchange between the two multi-filar solenoids.
« Last Edit: 2025-07-07, 00:48:25 by web000x »
   

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Buy me some coffee
All the posts i could find between 7th-12th
Hi Paul,

I left that part out.  It is the Fourier Transform!  I'll show you the reason why in another post.  This machine and a few of my other machines, generate a series of odd harmonics which seem to go infinite, and generate this perfect square.  I knew this was the right forum.

Regards

The question I have yet to see, is how is this possible with a generator?  Generators don't operate in this manner.  As you pointed out, its common knowledge how to do this using solid state components, but never have I seen it done using a simple configuration of coils, and magnets.  When you saw the video, did you note how when the wave makes its transition to or from the square, how the wave rings?

There is no magnet biasing.....core is not saturated, normal induction taking place.  The same effect can be generated using air core systems, I will demonstrate this.  Thanks for looking at this, and setting up this thread...its truly appreciated.

Regards

Now that was interesting......in your opinion can this phenomena be put to good use?

Regards

The odd harmonic concept did not originate with me, I borrowed it from the Fourier Transform while trying to understand what is taking place in this machine, the term infinite was also borrowed from the Fourier transform and applied.  Calling it a perfect square was me expressing joy in seeing how clean this wave is.  Regarding how the device is wired, I showed you this already on the thread you opened in the energetic forum, I will be doing a new series of videos showing my ignorance of how to read a scope, and walk the viewers through how this and other machines I have built are configured.

Honestly I don't feel you are justified in trying to correct me with regards to my "perfect square, and odd harmonic" statements, you weren't aware of where I adopted these ideas from, so I take no offense and do not stand corrected.  If this is the attitude that I have to look forward to then there really is no point sharing anything at all, it would be nice if I could just put the information out there before someone tears my years of work down before a single thing is shown.  I think I shared this view with you before... There will be time for you to run all over this thing if that's your thing, and when you do, your statements will either be profound and you will have my undivided attention, or you will deliver more of what you are giving me now, and I'll ignore you, ignoring you would be the gentleman thing to do.   As I value your opinion, and your level head, I hope it doesn't come to that.  With that being said, I wont respond to the remainder of your post in the hope that we can start over once I have uploaded more information.  I am not an EE 99% of what you stated above went in one of my ears and out the other anyway.  That is not an insult its actually a good thing, not caring about what the text says, whats possible and whats not has allowed me to find something that I have never seen before, namely, a generator that has a square wave output.  I might be so bold as to say, a practical use for harmonic distortion...organized chaos.....ignorance is bliss...don't ruin it for me.

Regards

Hello EMdevices,

This is a generator.  I spin it by hand and show the wave form (sine) that it generates with no load attached to it.  I then stop it, attach the load, and then spin it again, this time it generates the square wave.  I'm working on new videos which I hope will make a few of the simple things clear.

Regards

Load is a 4700uF 400v capacitor, charged via a full wave bridge.  The cap is shorted by a 100 watt incandescent lamp. 

I am sorry to report that I still haven't shot those new videos, please forgive the delay, in the meantime I am providing the following video.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbl7jjNB_q4&hd=1[/youtube]

The effect of interest here is how the "Buffer" capacitor (capacitor which is paralleled with the power supply) is charged to a higher voltage than the supply after I shut the system down.  I have built several different pulse motors over the years, and have followed the work of other researchers with great interest.  I have never seen anyone demonstrate this effect before.  See video description for more details.

I have been able to get this effect with any circuit that I attach to this coil configuration.  I am positive someone will ask for a schematic, my response is that the effect isn't limited to any particular drive circuit, you can use any basic non inductively triggered circuit.  Coil to coil communication is important.  The attached drawing shows how coils are connected in the machine in the video.  I call this connection "Natural Series" (refer to attached image titled:  connections.  I will elaborate on why I call it that at a later date.  If you try this with standard solenoid style coils, the wave form that you should generate with these connections is the second in the Fourier Series...(the combination of the 1st and 3rd harmonics) refer to attached image titled :Fourier.  That has been my experience, for your viewing pleasure, here is an example of me generating the second waveform in the Fourier Series with one of my machines, I also attached a picture of the motor, and its waveform.  My inspiration came from B€dini, he also generated this wave form, in the beginning I thought it was the magnetic circuit that made it possible, imagine my surprise when I found that it was the coil connections. 

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-rgZJM11Ek&hd=1[/youtube]

Regards

If you have a pulse motor, which is not configured like mine, one which is triggered by anything except an inductor, please run it and show me how it lifts your (capacitor paralleled with, and isolated from via diodes) supply higher than the supply voltage.  I have tried, and cannot make it happen.  My opinion, this isn't an effect which should be summed up as simple "motor regeneration".
 
Please show me your motor doing this.....I can show you at least two diametrically opposed geometries which do it, air core, iron core, high or low inductance, it doesn't matter.  These same machines can be rewired , consume the same amount of current, and  operate at the same rpm.  After they have been rewired (how we wire everything...) however, they will not show this effect, regardless of  how much "angular momentum" is stored up in the rotor.


Regards

Post already shown previously with 3 pics
Wavewatcher,

Please don't misunderstand, I truly appreciate your suggestion, I have looked into it, however, "bench tests" have revealed time and time again that  pulse motors under normal circumstances don't allow you to capitalize on the generator action when you pull the plug.  I have tried them all, from B€dini to Adams and everything in between, and multiple variations of all of them, none allow you to do what I have found.  I don't know if you are in the position to test what I have suggested, if you can please do so.  If you cannot I understand.  It is extremely important that you experience the effect first hand, see the difference for yourself. 

It seems to me that the effect is more like a capacitor discharge.  The the speed and intensity of the charging is likened to that experienced when a capacitor is made to charge another capacitor.  When the system is properly balanced, there is no drag produced during this charging period, regardless of the size of the buffer capacitor.  This has to be experienced to believe.  I am not asking anyone to take my word for anything, nor believe what you see in the videos, I am suggesting, asking, as humbly as I know how for those who are in the position to test, do so.  Experience this for yourself. 

Attached is the basic two coil setup that generates the effect.  There are two six strand coils.  Coil one has all of its strands paralleled, the same is done with coil two.  The coils are then configured in Bucking series (Natural Series).   

Inductance = 13.7mH
Resistance  = 0.8 ohm

You are not limited to the values that I have mentioned here...if you are going to use cored solenoids like I am showing here, I recommend you use coils which have higher inductance than mine.  When you connect the coils in this manner, the scope will show the second wave in the Fourier Series.  That is the indication that you have setup the device correctly.

Orthogonal air cores outperform iron core coils.  I believe this is because the iron doesn't allow the higher frequency oscillations to manifest, choke.  We don't want a choke.   


Regards
   
Group: Tech Wizard
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Posts: 1267
Hi Peter,

Thank you!

Gyula
   
Sr. Member
****

Posts: 350
Your efforts are MUCH appreciated!! Thank you, Peter!
   
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