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OverUnity Research > Water as Fuel > DISSOCIATION of the Water Molecule (Moderators: PhysicsProf, Centraflow) > Patent Study: WO 98/46349
2024-04-18, 18:38:52
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Author Topic: Patent Study: WO 98/46349  (Read 13645 times)
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img  Matt Watts
Patent Study: WO 98/46349 « on: 2015-01-07, 04:06:54 »
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Russ has been studying this patent which appears to be far easier than the Stan Meyer method.

I'd be curious if anyone has pursued it already or sees any obvious flaws.

Thanks much,

M@
   
img  NerzhDishual
Re: Patent Study: WO 98/46349 « Reply #1 on: 2015-01-07, 13:42:56 »
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Yeah, Chistopher R. ECCLES!

I had studied this patent a couple of years ago.




It should not be too difficult to test for a motivated, skilled and well equipped guy
(which I am not). The logical electronical part could be done by and ARDUINO. No?

Another patent from this person:
ENERGY GENERATION
WO0025320A1
(Attached file.)
   
img  lost_bro
Re: Patent Study: WO 98/46349 « Reply #2 on: 2015-01-08, 23:37:41 »
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Quote from: Matt Watts on 2015-01-07, 04:06:54
Russ has been studying this patent which appears to be far easier than the Stan Meyer method.

I'd be curious if anyone has pursued it already or sees any obvious flaws.

Thanks much,

M@

Hi Matt

Well, built the small signal/logic control circuit from the patent today:

Please note that the patent drawing specify NAND gates x4 for 5a, 5b, 6a, 6b, but the written word says AND gates for the same parts.

I only have AND gates at the moment so my build uses the 'written' specified AND gates (SN74HCT08N).

The inverter used :  SN74HC14, Schmitt

#4 is specified as a divide by 2 so I used the 'old' D type Flip Flop trick (SN74HC74N) , (Not Q0 -> d) and Clk as my input. Checked on Scope, divides by 2- works as advertised.....

#1 & 2, used my FG to have variable duty cycle as described in patent.

#3 is mentioned to be a 555 PWM circuit, but I whipped up a TL494cn with variable duty cycle and frequency control.

Please see scope shots:

Note that with both #1 & #3 set to 50% duty cycle the output 6a & 6b ( out of phase and with variable deadtime, adjustable by duty cycle on TL494) gives a constant variable changing duty cycle from maybe 8% to 50% on both channels. Kind of a neat effect if that's what your after.  This is due the fact that the two PWM signal sources are NOT synchronized so the signals drift apart and then together.....   The patent does not mention synchronization so I don't really know the intent of the author.

If the duty cycles are not equal ( between both PWM signal sources) then the last picture shows the expected mix-mash of signal.

I would appreciate any comments regarding this setup,  if you notice something that I overlooked please advise.

I first downloaded this patent a number of years ago and promptly forgot about it, (like so many things ) but I do agree with Matt that this does hold promise and definitely less complicated than S.M. technology.

But, seeing the already apparent mis-information in the patent (maybe the  patent lawyer translated the technical drawings?) , I doubt that all the pieces are there to replicate without some serious time invested....

take care, peace
lost_bro
   
img  Matt Watts
Re: Patent Study: WO 98/46349 « Reply #3 on: 2015-01-09, 04:16:05 »
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Quote from: lost_bro on 2015-01-08, 23:37:41
But, seeing the already apparent mis-information in the patent (maybe the  patent lawyer translated the technical drawings?) , I doubt that all the pieces are there to replicate without some serious time invested....

I was afraid of that.  I attached figure 5 as an example.  There is no possible way with that circuit they would get nice flat top square waves with 25,000 volts.

Almost like the inventor of this device never actually built or tested it.  Have to wonder who he paid to get the examiners to sign-off on this.

Thanks for trying lost_bro.  Now we know.
   
img  Centraflow
Re: Patent Study: WO 98/46349 « Reply #4 on: 2015-01-09, 12:20:35 »

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Quote from: Matt Watts on 2015-01-07, 04:06:54
Russ has been studying this patent which appears to be far easier than the Stan Meyer method.

I'd be curious if anyone has pursued it already or sees any obvious flaws.

Thanks much,

M@

Hi Matt

Yes I have worked on this in a way, I saw this patent some years ago, I know how it works as it is similar to DBD "dual barrier discharge" into the dielectric which would be water.

For this to work well the voltage which I have used was 70Kv in the past into a tuning network at frequencies between 20-30KHz, it is RF which is being emitted in the form of carrier and modulator and not exactly as in the patent. If done in air and not water as dielectric, it would break the air into O3 and nitrous oxides, I did a demo of this a few years ago to an investor from USA but in my lab here in Spain. The investor now lives in Australia and went cold on this a few months before he changed countries!!!

This is all involved with the work I do, If Russ wants to contact me he can, I'm on skype "centraflow", centraflow@gmail.com and of course here :)

Others in the scientific world have done similar to this but with" limited success" due to certain aspects not thought out.

Destabilisation is the way to go and finally at the right moment a low energy discharge or in other words create a discharge path and use this path to zap across it ;D

regards

Mike 8)



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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
img  lost_bro
Re: Patent Study: WO 98/46349 « Reply #5 on: 2015-01-10, 00:29:51 »
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Hello All

Just wanted to clarify on the current topic:

Changed out the flip-flop to a dedicated decade divider chip:  SN74LS90N
Put on sufficient decoupling caps.... and routed the output of the TL494 thru two Schmidt inverters to square it up:

Also, read the patent wrong yesterday,   had to change the output of the TL494 to a period of 2us. (THIS SIGNAL IS USED AS GATING)

Now, I understand what the author was doing with the two PWMs.....  GATING, just like S.M.......

Check out the pics.....  you end up with a gated driving signal that is exactly like S.M. shows in all his patents but with variable deadtime.

The power switching part of the patent shows a One transistor inverting singled-ended GDT powering a single NMOSFET apparently switching a Flyback XFRMR.

Just a block diagram, so no real info is shown as far as actually building the power circuit.

He is utilizing a total x4 rectifying diodes on the output of the two flyback XFRMRs.....
My question is:  What diode is recommended for 25KV?

take care, peace
lost_bro
   
img  lost_bro
Re: Patent Study: WO 98/46349 « Reply #6 on: 2015-01-10, 00:53:13 »
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Quote from: Matt Watts on 2015-01-09, 04:16:05
I was afraid of that.  I attached figure 5 as an example.  There is no possible way with that circuit they would get nice flat top square waves with 25,000 volts.

Almost like the inventor of this device never actually built or tested it.  Have to wonder who he paid to get the examiners to sign-off on this.

Thanks for trying lost_bro.  Now we know.

Hi Matt

OK, maybe I have an answer for your question:

If you integrate all the individual pulses from the gated drive signal, then you could possibly have a final pulse @ the flyback output which could be interpreted as *something similar* to a square wave.....
What the patent is dealing with is a sum collection of mini pulses depicted modular-ly  as a collective single pulse ( denoting the GATED group signal).

take care, peace
lost_bro
   
img  Peterae
Re: Patent Study: WO 98/46349 « Reply #7 on: 2015-01-10, 10:46:47 »

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In the patent he uses a CD4093 cmos Nand Gate both in text & diagram

and in the UK patent the diagram shows Nand and in text he underlines the word AND which although not standard notation for a Nand to me indicates a 'NOT'ed AND gate, really the line should be above the word AND

So to me he is definetely using a NAND gate.

If you dont have a nand gate you can use 2 transistors

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/trangate.html
   
img  lost_bro
Re: Patent Study: WO 98/46349 « Reply #8 on: 2015-01-10, 15:56:43 »
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Quote from: Peterae on 2015-01-10, 10:46:47
In the patent he uses a CD4093 cmos Nand Gate both in text & diagram

and in the UK patent the diagram shows Nand and in text he underlines the word AND which although not standard notation for a Nand to me indicates a 'NOT'ed AND gate, really the line should be above the word AND

So to me he is definetely using a NAND gate.

If you dont have a nand gate you can use 2 transistors

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/trangate.html

Good day Peterae

OK, now I am really confused:
Which patent is this: WO0025320
Seems to be a cold fusion patent from same author.

Found this when researching patent info:

"Re: Re: Does Mills Have a Copycat?

Jones Beene <jonesb9 <at> p.yahoo.invalid>
2001-05-09 19:21:27 GMT
Thanks to Tom Stolper for providing a thorough and insightful first look into the
Eccles patent.

Does anyone else have a problem with Eccles claim of positioning a plasma
adjacent to an electrolyte?

There was a time in the 70's, early 80's when many American companies
accused the Japanese of a business strategy that consisted of taking the latest
research from US journals and rushing off to the Asian patent offices with very
broad-based claims that were put together from 2nd hand info and not actually
having been tested or built by the applicants. It wasn't so much that the
Japanese really thought that they could get away with "stealing an idea," as
much as they assumed US patents had already been taken and they just wanted
a "chip" to use in bargaining when it came down to the question of royalties.
The political decision had already been made at the highest level that this "field
of technology is so impotant to us globally that we WILL become a major
player, and the rest is just a matter of percentages."

The present scenario with the Eccles application kind of reminds me of that
strategy, as so many of the things disclosed don't add up to a real device
actually having been built, even though certain test "results" are included. The
voltage figures, for instance, are incredible to anyone who has experimented
with these things.

It would be interesting, assuming that there are British participants in this forum,
if one of them would attempt to contact Eccles and company and invite
him/them to participate in this discussion. I would love to hear how the patent
and prior research came into existence - perhaps there is a lot more to this
story then meets the eye, and that it is wrong to be too quick to rush to
judgement.

Regards,"

At any rate, I have NAND gates on order and should be here in a few more weeks.......
I will rebuild the prototype circuit at that time and report the results here.

take care, peace
lost_bro
   
img  Centraflow
Re: Patent Study: WO 98/46349 « Reply #9 on: 2015-01-10, 16:29:17 »

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Quote from: Peterae on 2015-01-10, 10:46:47
In the patent he uses a CD4093 cmos Nand Gate both in text & diagram

and in the UK patent the diagram shows Nand and in text he underlines the word AND which although not standard notation for a Nand to me indicates a 'NOT'ed AND gate, really the line should be above the word AND

So to me he is definitely using a NAND gate.

If you don't have a nand gate you can use 2 transistors

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/trangate.html

Good investigating Peter O0

One thing led to another, we are talking visible and non visible discharges through an electrolyte creating huge current density/area on discharge. It has the ability to break molecular bonds of most types, including covalent bonds in gases, CO2->CO+O2 and if done correctly in liquids such as water. The latter has to be dual barrier (no direct electrical conduction), basicly using high voltages, ghost electrodes form on the surface of the insulators, the charge builds similar to a capacitor to the point of discharge (imagine Kv's total discharging in ms creating huge current) voila, molecular explosion :D

regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Re: Patent Study: WO 98/46349 « Reply #10 on: 2015-01-10, 18:43:56 »

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Hi Chaps
Sorry didn't mean to confuse, on google patents a number of similar patents comes up for him, looks like i read the wrong patent, but my ears pricked when i had seen fusion  :o

Seems there a few patents for the fussion not sure how different they are against each other
   
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Re: Patent Study: WO 98/46349 « Reply #11 on: 2015-01-10, 19:04:15 »

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Quote from: Peterae on 2015-01-10, 18:43:56
Hi Chaps
Sorry didn't mean to confuse, on google patents a number of similar patents comes up for him, looks like i read the wrong patent, but my ears pricked when i had seen fusion  :o

Seems there a few patents for the fussion not sure how different they are against each other

As I have said, one thing led to another. If you go through all his work you can see how this happened.

Some of this is burried in the vaults of EF forum a few years ago, also more up to date in "Research gate" where I am a member and work with a few scientists on just this subject, molecular bond breaking.

I will try and get some things together over the next few days.

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
img  Centraflow
Re: Patent Study: WO 98/46349 « Reply #12 on: 2015-01-10, 19:19:40 »

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Here's a start from Research gate

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/224427114_Generation_of_powerful_electron_beams_in_a_dense_gas_with_a_dielectric-barrier-discharge-based_cathode

This is also part of my E-beam work form methane production.

regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
img  Peterae
Re: Patent Study: WO 98/46349 « Reply #13 on: 2015-01-11, 08:34:27 »

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Yep i see.
Thanks Mike
   
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Re: Patent Study: WO 98/46349 « Reply #14 on: 2015-01-11, 12:32:22 »

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Here is a good example of another form

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNSAXbZfnbE

All this is linked together, even the water spark plug ;D

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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