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Author Topic: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply  (Read 234468 times)
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I updated the "water as fuel" presentation with the following two new slides.  The presentation was given to academics from Australia and China.  It aroused their interest.

Lawrence,

I know about you from WAY back and that you are trying to do good so my comments mean no disrespect....

You are wasting your time and energy with “academia”.

They have had more than 50 years to study & develop water fuel technology and Brown's Gas, for example.

If you don't know or understand WHY they have done NOTHING, I dare say you are VERY naïve!

I am also tempted to say:
Where have you been for the last few DECADES??

Take for example the latest “world-shattering” news about a 1.5V battery producing a few lousy bubbles of gas in a 'pissy' little jar, while they have completely ignored all those who have been running cars and generators on water for DECADES!!

Lawrence, there is NO NEED for further “theorising”, not even yours, no offence!
If you want to continue your “speculations” (your word) about water, I can recommend a book you may not be familiar with.
Note that it is sample only!  (attached)

HOW MUCH free energy do you want???
1kW?  5KW?  50KW?
What is YOUR excuse for not having it?

I (for one) have already published a COMPLETE, fully automatic Water Fueled Generator Project (WFGP) many months ago!
FREE. 
NO conditions attached.

But yes, there is a “catch”:  a lot of work to make one!

It seems that some people require an endless number of “proof of concepts”!

Remember this thread?: 
http://www.overunity.com/10156/selfrunning-hho-system-with-400-watts-additional-output/PHPSESSID/a5f0110b87b0705cd32563bf2f85c6ba/

That was 3 years ago.
So what happened to THAT “proof of concept”?
Go back and find out!

I have concluded long ago that there are two possibilities:
One: there is virtually ZERO interest in this technology.
(Apart from a few “odd-balls”, like myself!)

Two:  there are some who just get on with it but keep their mouths shut, simply because they have no desire to join Stanley Meyer and many others!

On that subject, here is a quote from my source:

"In 1998, at the OPEC conference in Venezuela, the names Stanley Meyer and Yull Brown were mentioned.
The executives "freaked out" and 3 weeks later Stanley Meyer was dead and 3 months later Yull Brown was dead."

Ironically, you can gain much more free energy by using water than by most other methods.
And as 'crude' as it may be at present, it is here, right now!

THIS thread is only about a greatly improved electrolysis method, nano-pulse power.
My point is that even without that, we can already produce free energy.

So WHAT is the problem??

Cheers,
Les Banki


   

Group: Experimentalist
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Posts: 2591
Thanks for posting that pdf Les, it is something in line with my feelings on the subject.

As he has stated, water is still one of the great mysteries, it has so much energy locked inside, the trick is having a way of unlocking that energy without expending more than we use to unlock it.

Can we create more EZ areas in the same body of water? now that is a good question! I believe we can and without using too much energy to do it.

If we drop a stone in water we see the ripples coming off that stone, are the areas between those ripples EZ and "normal" water, are there created different zones? can we do this by pinging the water at a point and create the same effect? using an EM wave? more than one wave of different frequencies? The EM spectrum is huge, I don't really think the frequency matters, it may only dictate the width of the EZ area! the higher the frequency the thinner the slice.

The EZ area and the normal water area have different charges! + and - , if we have a series link then we either have a series battery or polarised capacitor, what if we can over charge that series chain?

Very fast high voltage pulses would be needed in phase with that "ripple", stretch the bond angle and rip the molecule apart, the same as over charging a cap or battery!

regards

Mike 8) 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 931
Lawrence,

I know about you from WAY back and that you are trying to do good so my comments mean no disrespect....

You are wasting your time and energy with “academia”.

They have had more than 50 years to study & develop water fuel technology and Brown's Gas, for example.

If you don't know or understand WHY they have done NOTHING, I dare say you are VERY naïve!

I am also tempted to say:
Where have you been for the last few DECADES??

Take for example the latest “world-shattering” news about a 1.5V battery producing a few lousy bubbles of gas in a 'pissy' little jar, while they have completely ignored all those who have been running cars and generators on water for DECADES!!

Lawrence, there is NO NEED for further “theorising”, not even yours, no offence!
If you want to continue your “speculations” (your word) about water, I can recommend a book you may not be familiar with.
Note that it is sample only!  (attached)

HOW MUCH free energy do you want???
1kW?  5KW?  50KW?
What is YOUR excuse for not having it?

I (for one) have already published a COMPLETE, fully automatic Water Fueled Generator Project (WFGP) many months ago!
FREE. 
NO conditions attached.

But yes, there is a “catch”:  a lot of work to make one!

It seems that some people require an endless number of “proof of concepts”!

Remember this thread?: 
http://www.overunity.com/10156/selfrunning-hho-system-with-400-watts-additional-output/PHPSESSID/a5f0110b87b0705cd32563bf2f85c6ba/

That was 3 years ago.
So what happened to THAT “proof of concept”?
Go back and find out!

I have concluded long ago that there are two possibilities:
One: there is virtually ZERO interest in this technology.
(Apart from a few “odd-balls”, like myself!)

Two:  there are some who just get on with it but keep their mouths shut, simply because they have no desire to join Stanley Meyer and many others!

On that subject, here is a quote from my source:

"In 1998, at the OPEC conference in Venezuela, the names Stanley Meyer and Yull Brown were mentioned.
The executives "freaked out" and 3 weeks later Stanley Meyer was dead and 3 months later Yull Brown was dead."

Ironically, you can gain much more free energy by using water than by most other methods.
And as 'crude' as it may be at present, it is here, right now!

THIS thread is only about a greatly improved electrolysis method, nano-pulse power.
My point is that even without that, we can already produce free energy.

So WHAT is the problem??

Cheers,
Les Banki



@Les Banki
Thanks for recommending the Book.  I read the 4 chapters and shall find the book to study the rest.
Some feedback:
1.   You are wasting your time and energy with “academia”.
The first time I had serious contact with Academics was in 2006 at Tsinghua University (the MIT of China).  I used the attached “Lead-out” or “Bring-in” Energy system slide to emphasize that the if we can bring-in energy from the environment, the device is NOT an perpetual motion machine.
Three machines were revealed at that meeting.  One was the 225 HP pulse generator from USA funded by a China Group.  One was the Wang Rotating motor with water inside.  One was the electricity multiplier already known to Tsinghus University.
The Lead-out or Bring-in energy concept was well received as it could explain the workings of the three above “impossible” machines.
When I went back to Hong Kong, I was “investigated” as a spy that disclosed “national secrets” to foreigners.  I knew that I was on the right path and published much of what I know as “Divine Revelations” on the Internet.

2.   One: there is virtually ZERO interest in this technology.
(Apart from a few “odd-balls”, like myself!)

Two:  there are some who just get on with it but keep their mouths shut, simply because they have no desire to join Stanley Meyer and many others!
There is continued great interest in China.  Wang got funded by the Chinese Government and State Industries.  Information is confidential and is expected to remain so until actual products are ready (and the military does not object).

3.   In my latest presentation, the academics said: “When we first received the invitation, we just laughed that it was another Perpetual Motion joke.  The single slide aroused our interest.  We shall keep watching.”
   
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 931
On the technical side, I believe that we should focus on the "electron cloud" of water - not just the isolated water molecule but also the "water particles".

I am sure that Electrical and Magnetic fields can influence the "electron clouds".  Water is not just water! 

Divine Revealation?
   
Group: Guest
Remember this thread?: 
http://www.overunity.com/10156/selfrunning-hho-system-with-400-watts-additional-output/PHPSESSID/a5f0110b87b0705cd32563bf2f85c6ba/

Oh I sure the hell do.  Almost got a divorce over that one.

I had a brand new Briggs & Stratton 5500kW (305cc motor) hooked up to a 13LpM cell.  I did the waste spark removal mod, valve timing mod; even built a custom plasma ignition system hoping for the magic mix.



In the end and thousands of dollars later...

There was no way on God's green earth this was ever going to loop.  At best I could get it to putt, spit, putt, putt.

When I finally sent an email to info@oxyhydrogen.de hoping for some tips and it bounced, that was the final straw and it got shelved.

So yeah, I can see why people would become disheartened.  I haven't given up, but I also know I clearly don't have all the needed knowledge to knock out a working machine in a weekend.

Les, I have looked over all your circuit schematics (thank you BTW), but what I'm missing has to be mechanical in nature.  I didn't use injectors like you did because the Oliver and Valention video didn't use them.  Everything they did in that video, I did, maybe better.  I was so freaking mad I could have thrown that 200 pounds of junk out the window and I'm no Hulk Hogan.

So what I'm getting at is that "I" personally need a teacher and a coach to get to the next level.  Teach me and I will help you by teaching others.

Sincerely,

M@
   
Sr. Member
****

Posts: 345
Everything they did in that video, I did, maybe better. 
.
The essence of replication is that one should do EXACTLY what is directed.

(This does not apply to the next stage).
.
   
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*****

Posts: 931
I would like to comment on:
Dr. Pollack’s book recommended by Les Banki in reply 50.

Using the four principles from his conclusion
1.   Water has 4 phases
2.   Water Stores Energy
3.   Water Gets Energy from Light
4.   Like charged entities can attract one another

1.   Water has 4 phases.  The four phases are solid, Exclusive Zone (EZ), liquid and Gases.  The water molecules are structured in the EZ phase.  I would add that water should be treated as “many water particles” with different structures.  Such structures have different Electron Clouds and thus carry different amounts of energy.

2.   Water stores energy.  I would add that the different structures store different amounts of energy.  Thus water A energy can be different from water B energy at the same temperature.  Dr. Pollack’s water battery experiment is convincing.

3.   Water gets energy from light.  I would like to add that water “exchanges” electromagnetic waves with the surrounding.  Different water particles (including Browns Gas) exchange such waves differently.

4.   Like charged entities can attract one another.  I would like to add that water can “store” charges similar to supercapacitors.  Different electron clouds have different amounts of energy.  These electron clouds can transform from one to another.

5.   Electron Clouds can be influenced or changed by external Electric or Magnetic fields.   Chemical compounds and chemical reactions show different chemical energies because of the different electron cloud energies.  Water with its many different water particles has similar behavior.  Mastering this will advance science to a higher level.

God Bless
   
Group: Guest
Hi Matt (& others),

I am glad you raised the issue of unsuccessful attempts.

There are only 3 reasons for failure, singularly, or in combinations:

1.  Attitude
2.  Not enough HydrOxy volume and/or QUALITY (little or NO mono-atomic H and O contents)
3.  Engine management error: Incorrect Ignition timing and/or fuel delivery method.

Attitude is perhaps the hardest to explain...
Number 2 should be obvious with the exception of the QUALITY definition.

What I call “engine management” is by far the most common error – as I see it.

In your case, Matt, just because you did those mechanical modification to the engine, are you SURE
that you had the ignition timing correct?
I don't think you have.

The reason why I don't think you have is this statement: 
“At best I could get it to putt, spit, putt, putt.”
That is a clear sign that either your ignition timing was NOT correct, or the fuel (gas) delivery was intermittent or fluctuating....
Remember, when everything is done correctly, engines on HyrOxy ONLY are running
'smooth as a baby's bum'!

No kidding.

By the way, what exactly cost you “thousands of dollars”??

Now, about your 'plasma' ignition.
Totally unnecessary!
HydrOxy IS the most volatile fuel and the required spark energy is a just a fraction of other fuel's!

Please read my “CDI circuit description.doc” for more details.

I cannot stress enough the importance of reading the various circuit descriptions!

Generally, I would say this to ALL who read here:

I don't care how good your understanding of electronics might be but without reading the circuit description of, say, the “Igninje5 circuit description.doc”, you can 'stare at it' all day and perhaps try to analyze it without understanding WHY the circuit is arranged the way it is or HOW it works!
(If you disagree, just try it!)

For those who may only want a “proof of concept” for themselves without automatic functions, you could use only the 'power supply', 'Igninje5', 'CDI' and 'pressure regulator' circuits and simply regulate gas delivery to the engine manually.

Over the years I have covered just about everything I could think of in my writings and various Forum posts.
I simply don't have the time to re-write everything!
I know that some of the readers here will never read the documents I have written.

Thus, the only way some of that will be read if I post it here!

I will quote from one of my documents which was named “LesBankioninjection1.doc” by the late Michael Couch (watercarTWO Forum). 
It was one of my rather long posts on that Forum and he put it into a document format.


“In closing, just so you have someone else's opinion on this subject
(not just mine), I paste here a series of posts by `bolt' at
overunity.com:


Pay special attention to his last post in red text! (my emphasis)

Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
<http://www.overunit y.com/index. php?PHPSESSID= a5f0110b87b0705c d32563bf2f\
85c6ba&topic= 10156.msg268439# msg268439>
« Reply #107 on: December 27, 2010, 08:53:29 PM »

Yes its a OU system! The energy we put in is less then that provided by
other sources. Radiant Energy or water who cares. The excess is enough
where its looped. If the energy transformed only from water it doesn't
explain how the TPU and Kapanadze works when they don't need water.
Better a common factor of Radiant Energy powers all three devices.

Its funny when you show people a COP>1 system they say "its a
measurement error its not COP>1 if it is then you should be able to loop
it" Guess what? This is a looped OU device!

400 watts DC yields about COP 3 without resonance via the energy
contained within the HHO mix as its recombined within a spark. See
Atomic Hydrogen Torches and as much as COP 12 with 3 phase resonance
systems. So 3 * 400 = 1200 watts nett effective including RE. The are
two things we know are instant energy debts here. The lamp 400 watts i
think = 1200 - 400 = 800 watts and also the cell need 400 watts so i
have 400 watts to run the engine and cover the alternator losses. The
alternator is going to lose perhaps 150 watts from mechanical to
electrical so i got 250 watts left to keep the motor itself turning.
Will it loop? YES! PS if the lamp is larger then its taken from this 250
watts.

The 250 watts is left within the system and keeps the motor and
generator running overcoming the friction losses of the bearings, piston
friction and valve gear to maintain about 3000 rpm.

The system is scalable the French did this years ago on 25kw genset it
runs on pure water and provides like 10KW OU.


« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 09:17:50 PM by bolt »
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
<http://www.overunit y.com/index. php?PHPSESSID= 621c232db397a8da 928d25202e\
074f99&topic= 10156.msg277260# msg277260>
« Reply #358 on: March 10, 2011, 03:00:47 PM »

* [Reply with quote] Quote
<http://www.overunit y.com/index. php?PHPSESSID= 621c232db397a8da 928d25202e\
074f99&action= post;quote= 277260;topic= 10156.345; num_replies= 393;a54853b2\
=96ff94d7b6955dcb6c e63b8b36eb506d>

When HHO is ignited under great pressure like 150-200 PSI with ICE the
power is greatly magnified. Like when you trap HHO in a container then
ignite it the explosion almost takes your roof off! Anyone that tries to
store any amount of HHO in containers at pressures over 7 PSI has just
made a lethal weapon particularly where its raised to pressure like 100
PSI its highly unstable and will try at any time to convert all that
energy back to water.

HHO recombination is an electron migration process where water is used
as a Zero Point Energy proxy. So the water is not actually the fuel even
though it will consume water. For all practical purpose who cares it
uses water? As HHO burns thru metals and raises to thousands of degrees
the process has been measured as OU as electrons are accelerated at huge
speeds form kinetic energy bombards the adjacent molecules in the
material being heated and the temperature is raised several magnitudes
hotter than the HHO flame itself. The process is improved higher by
high voltage spark at flame point as within Atomic Welding. High voltage
spark adds abundance of free electrons. See early 1900's books already
recognised this process as OU.

For HHO heaters use rock ore materials with high crystal content not
metal. As crystal excited by extreme heat the crystals are energised
release more and more high speed electrons as piezoelectric effect into
adjacent material heating >3000 degrees. The process goes OU. Special
cut rock is then built up around the heat chamber to make a HHO core
reactor. Then conventional fire bricks cover the stack to make a 300
degree IR radiant heater. Several patents on this already.

Typically the HHO yields a COP 3 within ICE when all the other
parameters have been perfected for engine timing etc.

So if you put 1000 watts into your cell you have 3000 watts of energy
within the engine. Take off 1000 you need to give back to keep the cell
going plus engine losses, friction and alternator conversion loss etc so
total you need to give back 2000 watts of this energy. Now you have 1000
watts OU available to run a load. You can see by making engine super
efficient you have 1000 watts here which can be recovered rather then
giving it back as losses so as the process is refined you get over 1000
watts OU.

Now you can see without any PWM driving and special tuning already the
process has a COP 3. By using PWM high frequency drives, ultrasonic
water fog injection, resonance tuned alternator, the COP can easily
exceed 5 even higher.

So if you perfected everything and used PWM etc reaching a COP of 10
within a car engine is not impossible in fact its very achievable as
others have done this already. You need a 5kW cell to get 50kW out the
engine running only HHO and nothing else. Perfect for a small car.

« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 03:38:05 PM by bolt »

Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
<http://www.overunit y.com/index. php?PHPSESSID= 621c232db397a8da 928d25202e\
074f99&topic= 10156.msg275426# msg275426>
« Reply #348 on: February 21, 2011, 12:02:45 AM »

* [Reply with quote] Quote
<http://www.overunit y.com/index. php?PHPSESSID= 621c232db397a8da 928d25202e\
074f99&action= post;quote= 275426;topic= 10156.345; num_replies= 393;a54853b2\
=96ff94d7b6955dcb6c e63b8b36eb506d>

I find it VERY strange how one of the most exciting disclosures of
recent times witnessing a gasoline engine running on water and
generating 400w has the quietest thread? Maybe its a mental block or a
spell cast over mankind where there are more thrills within under unity
1 watt TOYS or perhaps Sports TV in HD has been good lately?
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
<http://www.overunit y.com/index. php?PHPSESSID= 621c232db397a8da 928d25202e\
074f99&topic= 10156.msg277325# msg277325>
« Reply #375 on: March 11, 2011, 12:18:57 AM »

* [Reply with quote] Quote
<http://www.overunit y.com/index. php?PHPSESSID= 621c232db397a8da 928d25202e\
074f99&action= post;quote= 277325;topic= 10156.375; num_replies= 393;a54853b2\
=96ff94d7b6955dcb6c e63b8b36eb506d>

You don't have to make advanced PWM's to test this engine. DC is good
enough already COP 3 via ICE so if you tune everything correctly it will
work from the get go. Even if you are very sloppy and use all of the COP
3 to keep the engine running with nothing left for a load it makes a
nice OU water powered heater:)

While Les has covered all the dots and crossed the t's IMO is terribly
complex for DIY replication. It looks like a 1980's TV circuit LOL

You can do everything required using an AVR micro which only cost about
15 bucks. Then you add a hall sensor to pin 2, one power fet to pin 5
via a driver and a car ignition coil and you are good to go.
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
<http://www.overunit y.com/index. php?PHPSESSID= 621c232db397a8da 928d25202e\
074f99&topic= 10156.msg277579# msg277579>
« Reply #386 on: March 13, 2011, 06:07:43 PM »

* [Reply with quote] Quote
<http://www.overunit y.com/index. php?PHPSESSID= 621c232db397a8da 928d25202e\
074f99&action= post;quote= 277579;topic= 10156.375; num_replies= 393;a54853b2\
=96ff94d7b6955dcb6c e63b8b36eb506d>

True this is not anything fancy like a bob Boyce system. HHO production
tweaks can be done later but already the system has a COP 3 with basic
DC control of the cell.

The logic here is just like a car engine ECU which controls the start
sequence and sets the correct timing. While it can be done using gears
and cogs its not very elegant and still has no control over engine speed
so might as well do everything at the same time using a processor. Once
you have proper control over gas production and the timing you got
proper control over the engine.


Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
<http://www.overunit y.com/index. php?PHPSESSID= 621c232db397a8da 928d25202e\
074f99&topic= 10156.msg277517# msg277517>
« Reply #383 on: March 12, 2011, 05:16:21 PM »

* [Reply with quote] Quote
<http://www.overunit y.com/index. php?PHPSESSID= 621c232db397a8da 928d25202e\
074f99&action= post;quote= 277517;topic= 10156.375; num_replies= 393;a54853b2\
=96ff94d7b6955dcb6c e63b8b36eb506d>

Quote

Bolt, are you planning on raising the compression ratio on your motor?

No its unnecessary and risk of engine damage.

Quote

On the Woodpecker video a flashback device is very close to the motor
inlet and the HHO is piped straight in.
http://www.youtube. com/user/ woodpecker1311# p/a/u/1/kTFVW8w8 bjI
<http://www.youtube. com/user/ woodpecker1311# p/a/u/1/kTFVW8w8 bjI>
Also on that video when the HHO is removed the engine continues to run
and surge. I suspect there is still some hydrocarbon vapors remaining?

You wont get rid of carbon vapours its a 4 stroke engine and therefore
it is lubricated by oil and will show very tiny amounts in exhaust BUT
its not the source of fuel.

Quote

On the Scarecrow videos from 2008 a 3.5 hp generator is shown running on
HHO with many flashback booms during start up. On the final and
postmortem videos he mentions 6 LPM @ 1000 watts was required for idle
and 9 LPM @ 2000 watts was required to run at full speed with a small
load. He did not make any timing or compression changes.
http://www.youtube. com/user/ SmartScarecrow# p/c/C547458B2E91 4426/1/APpGvV\
WsZZ8
<http://www.youtube. com/user/ SmartScarecrow# p/c/C547458B2E91 4426/1/APpGv\
VWsZZ8>

I hope you are wearing ear protection in your tests. From watching the
available videos it looks like starting the engine on gasoline to get
the engine temperature up quickly could make for a smoother transition.

Best of luck,
RD

if you don't change the timing the engine runs like a pig, back fires,
can bend valves and can burn hole in piston. Plus it requires a HUGE
amount of gas just to barely run. When properly tuned and blank spark
sorted all these issues vanish.
Thanks for your input!

« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 05:52:49 PM by bolt »

Cheers,
Les Banki





   
Group: Guest
Hi Matt (& others),

I am glad you raised the issue of unsuccessful attempts.

There are only 3 reasons for failure, singularly, or in combinations:

1.  Attitude
2.  Not enough HydrOxy volume and/or QUALITY (little or NO mono-atomic H and O contents)
3.  Engine management error: Incorrect Ignition timing and/or fuel delivery method.

Attitude is perhaps the hardest to explain...
Number 2 should be obvious with the exception of the QUALITY definition.

What I call “engine management” is by far the most common error – as I see it.

In your case, Matt, just because you did those mechanical modification to the engine, are you SURE
that you had the ignition timing correct?
I don't think you have.

The reason why I don't think you have is this statement: 
“At best I could get it to putt, spit, putt, putt.”
That is a clear sign that either your ignition timing was NOT correct, or the fuel (gas) delivery was intermittent or fluctuating....
Remember, when everything is done correctly, engines on HyrOxy ONLY are running
'smooth as a baby's bum'!

No kidding.

By the way, what exactly cost you “thousands of dollars”??

Now, about your 'plasma' ignition.
Totally unnecessary!
HydrOxy IS the most volatile fuel and the required spark energy is a just a fraction of other fuel's!

Number 1, attitude:

At the start I had it, a good one.  I overcame every obstacle that cropped up.  Towards the end, very disappointed.  I felt I had been taken to the cleaners.  Since then, I have pulled my head out of my ass and reconciled my lack of knowledge and experience.  I'm game again to make this work, whatever it takes.


Number 2, HydrOxy fuel:

I used this particular cell, which I might add is nearly 1000 dead presidents right up front:
http://www.greenfuelh2o.com/118_plate_hho_generator_p/118p230v.htm

It makes a LOT of gas.  Still have it in operation for my HydrOxy torch which is a fantastic shop tool by the way.  I can't speak for the quality of the gas though--still don't know enough to recognize the signs.  My tests all showed it to produce at a rate of 212 watts per LpM, which seems quite respectable.  I never had any sort of overheating problem with it.


Number 3, EMS:

First lets start with ignition.  I used a gear drive system off the shaft of the generator to emulate the internal camshaft gearing.  Waste spark eliminated.  I then added a micrometer adjustment with a hall effect sensor to allow timing adjustments in half degree increments, 15 degrees each way of TDC.  The only place the engine would even attempt to run was at approximately 8 degrees after TDC.  The hall effect sensor triggered a Mallory 6A Hyfire CDI system connected to a Mallory Promaster coil (output nearly 50kV).  This is also a multi-spark system below 6000 RPM.  I verified this setup with a timing light and the spark was SPOT ON and very stable.

Second part of this is fuel delivery and probably where I made a grave error as I think everything else I did was more than sufficient for an engine to run on water.  Here I completely removed the carb and built a manifold plate bolted directly onto the engine that had two ports, one for the HydrOxy gas and the other for air.  The HydrOxy was directly injected aft of a flashback suppressor, aft of my bubbler.  The other port had a micrometer needle valve for air intake.  My suspicion is the needle valve never let in enough air to dilute the HydrOxy to a ratio where efficient combustion could be maintained.  My thinking at the time was just the opposite--not getting enough HydrOxy.  So I likely went the wrong way with timing as well.
Based on the video though, I thought what I did matched pretty close.

So if my hunch is correct and I screwed up on the fuel delivery, how would I go about making the equivalent of a HydrOxy carburetor?  What means does the average mechanic have of building such a device that will meter the proper amounts of air and fuel into the engine?


I really want to nail this thing once and for all Les.  I currently have an RV with a nice Onan generator that has a gasoline fuel delivery clog somewhere in the fuel tank.  I'd like nothing better than to snip that fuel line off and run the genset on water.  You know it can be done and I'm listening and will make it happen this go-around.  All I need is the missing piece.
   

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Guys ages ago i designed a digital monostable, set the delay time in nS using dip switches, the delay chip i use comes in different flavours, 250ps,500pS,1nS,2nS, 5nS per binary digit

If you want a 200nS wide pulse then you set 200nS in binary on the switches.

My board uses 2 chips, 1 for phase and 1 for pulse width because i have been phase delaying 2 pulses hence the need for 2 chips.

I can easily re design using 1 chip, add a fet driver and fet with an oscillator, i am willing to make PCBs and sent them out free if this gets you all going on this device.

or

If you want to use your own output stage i can design the digital mono as a plug in board, feed it with a frequency and it will output a pulse width that has been set with the switches, if a 1nS chip is used you would get 0-255 nS adjustable pulse width, i could also cascade 2 chips giving 0-512nS

Entirely up to you guys, let me know and i will send you pcbs  O0

Here's my built version circuit

   

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or if someone has a circuit design already, i am willing to cad this up, get some PCBs made and shipped to you all for free  O0

Lets get this rolling, at least then some experimentation can be done with a variable width pulse.
   

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OK i have been thinking about this some more, i have realized a variable 0-512nS adjustable monostable with LED 7 seg display and thumb encoder switch for adjustment would be a very handy device for a lot of things, so i will start another thread in my work bench and start designing one, we can go from there.
   

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[quote author=Matt Watts link=topic=2578.msg41370#msg41370 date

So if my hunch is correct and I screwed up on the fuel delivery, how would I go about making the equivalent of a HydrOxy carburetor?  What means does the average mechanic have of building such a device that will meter the proper amounts of air and fuel

[/quote]

Dear Matt.

As you are aware I have spent many years playing with Vintage Gas (  Town Gas. ) engines. Town gas was predominantly Hydrogen with a few other gasses thrown in !  :)

Air is the key! It is the Nitrogen that is expanded that does the work. If I understood your post correctly you were restricting your air supply.

I have to agree with Les, this mixture needs only the slightest of sparks to blow!! From memory any ratio of 7 to 70 % will work!!

I have attached a photo of the Carburettor from one of the most common vintage engines on the UK Rally field, the Lister D type. The air intake has a simple valve that opens on the suction stroke. This valve creates just the right amount of vacuum to draw the fuel but then allows the necessary air to pass into the cylinder.

You could soon make a device like this !! You could also study one of your own countries super little engines the Fairbanks,Morse "Z" type, this engine also uses the same type of principle.

I am in the throws of acquiring a 4 cylinder LC 3 KW war time genset. This engine has a proper spark distributor driven from the camshaft, timing should be a doddle so I will be joining you guys in the quest for power from water.

Cheers Graham. 


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Graham
Will these work ?

I certainly hope so

Chet
   

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Hey Chet.

WOW, you brought back some good memories !!

I had a 3 HP F-M for many years !! They are Petrol/Paraffin  (Gasoline/Kerosene) engines, the small chamber with the lid on the carb was where you put a small quantity of Petrol to start and after a few minutes you opened up the right hand control valve to run on the main tank of Paraffin. You can clearly see the spring loaded air valve at the front of the carburettor.

For Hydrogen running you will have to retime the Magneto, just after TDC. ATM they will have nearly 15/20 deg advance as Paraffin is such a slow burning fuel.  You might even find a water injector on the 6 HP engine as this helped to reduce pre ignition knock (Pinking) on the larger Paraffin engines.

What I did like was to see them in almost complete state. Original muffler!!  Never found on engines here in the UK !! Oh you will need to find the Cylinder lubricators (Sight Feed), your neighbour may have removed them for safe keeping.  ;)

You lucky ********.   :)

Cheers Graham.


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Lets get this rolling, at least then some experimentation can be done with a variable width pulse.

I agree Peter, with one caveat.

Les is adamant we can loop a genset without nano-pulse, so I think we should do this part first.  That gives us a base platform to improve on.  I'm pretty much convinced if we have the proper injector for fuel delivery, we are all set.  Les already worked out the electronics needed for this part.  I would like to know if a high speed solenoid valve like this one can do the job:
http://content2.smcetech.com/pdf/SX10.pdf

I would also like to see if we can eliminate some electronics by using or building something similar to the mechanical Lister D aspirated intake Graham posted.

IMHO, if a half dozen of us can get to where Les already is, the next step can be worked out rather quickly.  Hopefully everybody sees my point here, if we don't already have running gensets, a nano-pulse electrolyzer isn't going to add much value.  With running gensets however, every watt we no longer have to dump into the electrolyzer is power that can go straight to our loads.  That's where we see the big win.
   

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Just for laughs !!

We have resurrected my 12 tube electrolyser and quickly coupled it to my 1890's Leek No 3  atmospheric engine, and........... BANG now I know why you need a bubbler !!   ;D

Got a full revolution though !!

Cheers Graham.


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Received some comments.

The Pulse or Resonance generation of HHO gas mixture may be different from traditional electrolysis.  The resulting gas mixture may be a "half-way" product.

Continued research worthwhile...
   
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Les is adamant we can loop a genset without nano-pulse, so I think we should do this part first.  That gives us a base platform to improve on.  I'm pretty much convinced if we have the proper injector for fuel delivery, we are all set.  Les already worked out the electronics needed for this part.  I would like to know if a high speed solenoid valve like this one can do the job:

IMHO, if a half dozen of us can get to where Les already is, the next step can be worked out rather quickly.  Hopefully everybody sees my point here, if we don't already have running gensets, a nano-pulse electrolyzer isn't going to add much value.  With running gensets however, every watt we no longer have to dump into the electrolyzer is power that can go straight to our loads.  That's where we see the big win.

Matt & others,

Thanks to you Matt and your comments, do I see a bit of interest here??

Yes, your comments are SPOT ON!
You know, I have long suspected that over the years, several HHO researchers had enough gas already, without realizing that they could run an engine!!
Matt, there is NO need for the high speed solenoid you referenced!

GAS injectors are being manufactured by a large number of companies all over the world!

All those who are interested in this subject should read my "Ignition system for small engines 2.doc" where
I have also stated the reasons WHY I favor fuel injection for HydrOxy as well as indicating HOW MUCH HydrOxy is needed!

I will now proceed to describe a practical experiment made by my friend Pete who is in the process of duplicating my WFGP.

While I was designing/building my semi-automatic Groove Cutting Machine (GCM) which took about 18 months, Pete got impatient and bough a ready made electrolyser from the US.
It produces only between 6 and 7 L/m of HydrOxy.

After 'playing' with the HydrOxy for a while, he got the idea to try to run his generator (same as I have) on HydrOxy ONLY, BEFORE any modifications or electronics were added!
So, with the assistance of a couple of friends, they proceeded.
They put a 2kW load on the output and off they went!
It ran a little bit 'rough' with a couple of back-fires but hey, the engine has NOT been modified in any way.
They proved the point.  It ran with only 7 liters of gas and supplied a 2kW load without problems!

Well then, what does all this tell you?

The engine's capacity is 420cc.  (7kW continuous output)
It 'sucks' in 420cc of AIR/fuel mixtureNOTE here that the AIR intake MUST NOT be restricted!
The injector should be mounted as close as practical to the intake manifold, injecting into the AIR channel.
The AIR is 99% and the HydrOxy is about 1%.  I wrote that already 7 years ago in my "Ignition system for small engines 2.doc"!
If you feel like calculating it, go ahead!

7 liters of gas per minute is 117cc per second.
If the engine runs at 3600RPM, the fuel intake is 1800 times a minute, which is 30 times a second.
Which in turn means that you need to divide the 117cc by 30.
The result is 3.9cc for each of the 30 cycles per second, 1800 per minute.

So, as you can see, my original stipulation of 99% AIR to 1% HydrOxy seem to hold nicely!!

And yet, this is for Pete's unmodified engine!!

While I am 'at it', I may as well point out that the efficiency of the 139 cell SELF-REGULATING electrolyser we are making is WELL over the 'Faraday' limit!
Thus, with a power input of 2kW, we are expecting about 20L/m of gas and at this stage it looks as we will only need HALF of it to run the generator with full load!
In that case, it means that the electrolyser will only operate HALF the time!

For those you might be interested, I have attached 4 pictures of Pete's electrolyser "in-the-making".....
I have also attached info on one gas injector...

By the way, my WFGP files are also displayed (individually) on http://www.energy-shiftingparadigms.com/index.php/topic,2533.0.html

I hope all the above makes sense....!

Cheers,
Les Banki
   
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Thanks to you Matt and your comments, do I see a bit of interest here??

Does a bear crap in the woods?    :)

You know, I have long suspected that over the years, several HHO researchers had enough gas already, without realizing that they could run an engine!!

I see I made at least three critical mistakes:

  • My air intake was highly restricted.
  • HydrOxy quality was crap--had a big filter capacitor aft of the bridge rectifier, so the cell wasn't being pulsed at 120 cycles at all.  Though I did have a variac connected inline so my voltage was probably okay to match my cell, at least it was adjustable.
  • No HydrOxy injection.

Keep throwing out hints Les and I'll read through all your documents again, there's probably something else I screwed-up, though I think those three things I just mentioned would have put me way out in left field.

GAS injectors are being manufactured by a large number of companies all over the world!

Okay guys, Les is doing all the work here.  How about someone else finding me a source similar to the POLIAUTO JET 21 injector.  Lets make this a team effort.
   

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Does a bear crap in the woods?    :)

I see I made at least three critical mistakes:

  • My air intake was highly restricted.
  • HydrOxy quality was crap--had a big filter capacitor aft of the bridge rectifier, so the cell wasn't being pulsed at 120 cycles at all.  Though I did have a variac connected inline so my voltage was probably okay to match my cell, at least it was adjustable.
  • No HydrOxy injection.

Keep throwing out hints Les and I'll read through all your documents again, there's probably something else I screwed-up, though I think those three things I just mentioned would have put me way out in left field.

Okay guys, Les is doing all the work here.  How about someone else finding me a source similar to the POLIAUTO JET 21 injector.  Lets make this a team effort.

Dear Matt.

Far too technical !!

IMO, this is a path well trodden, the ICE was around way before the use of liquid fuels, it is just the present fuel that needs to be understood and managed correctly !!

A simple method that was used widely on Gas engines was a small hole drilled into the intake valve seat. As the valve opened the gas would flow in with the air and then close again,sealed until the next intake stroke.
This method could be built into the flap intake I described yesterday.

If you want to go all technical? What about a Petrol injector taken from a scrap Fuel Injected car? There may be some issues with this as the Petrol is under pressure but some simple tests could be made to confirm it's viability.

I will endeavour, over the next few days to try and get one of my old Gas engines running on HHO, unfortunately most of them are of an age before the electric Spark Plug came into fashion !!   :)

Cheers Graham.


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@Les
Over the years I have corresponded with most of the people you mention in your recent posts [from OU.com]
and will be reconnecting with some.

Is your replicator "Peter" available to assist the replicator group Here?

Can you send him My Email ?


@Graham
On this side of the Pond Gas =gasoline.....your Petrol.

I know in your above post you are not referring to gas..oline. , but Gas in its different Vapor forms [city gas etc...]

I also appreciate the point you made about old time city gas having a large  hydrogen content .

thx
Chet




« Last Edit: 2014-09-08, 16:39:28 by Chet K »
   
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How about someone else finding me a source similar to the POLIAUTO JET 21 injector.

Two possible candidates:
http://www.qtww.com/assets/u/InjectorBrochure2.pdf
http://delphi.com/shared/pdf/ppd/pwrtrn/multec-compressed-natural-gas-injector.pdf

Maybe I could luck into an engineering sample.   :)
   
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Is your replicator "Peter" available to assist the replicator group Here?

Can you send him My Email ?

thx
Chet


Sorry to disappoint you Chet but the answer is NO.

I will tell you why and I ask all others here to pay attention also!

Pete is a carpenter/builder with almost no knowledge of electronics.
BUT he has a unique ATTITUDE!
By nature, he is not a 'skeptic' or a non-believer.
He never needed "convincing"!
Just like I never needed convincing 20 years ago when I started working with this technology!

Every now and then (when he needs it) he pays for the services of a young EE student who then does the electronics sections for him.

Yes, I am helping Pete, however, he knows that he can now do it even without me!
And so can everyone else, too!
I have documented everything and supplied detailed explanations to the best of my abilities!
Think about this:
If I am GONE tomorrow, you are on your own.  ALL of you.

To be BLUNT, I dare say that this project is NOT for those who need every little detail spoon-fed to them!!
Just as I have expressed in one of my documents, a project of this size and nature requires at least some BASIC electronics knowledge, OR,
the assistance of someone who DOES have such knowledge.
Period.

Cheers,
Les Banki



   
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Two possible candidates:
http://www.qtww.com/assets/u/InjectorBrochure2.pdf
http://delphi.com/shared/pdf/ppd/pwrtrn/multec-compressed-natural-gas-injector.pdf


Matt,

Unfortunately, neither of those are suitable for this purpose, mainly because of their working pressure (50psi).
You don't want that kind of pressure with HydrOxy!
The JET 21 (Poliauto) has a WORKING pressure of approx. 10psi.
Further, the one in the first link requires a "peak & hold" power supply which complicates things even more.

Cheers,
Les Banki
   
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