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Author Topic: Dolphins Rock !  (Read 24616 times)
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....when they are made into pendulums !

TinMan presented a highly interesting video in the related EZ Spin motor bench thread.
It can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9jj45CJsVk
Within which, he showed and described the circuit. Seems that it's the same circuit as his Cool Joule !
That dolphin has been running for 17 years on one alkaline 9V battery  :o

Well, let's have a go at emulating, simulating, building something similar..with OU potential ?
It relates to the EZ Spin, because the collapsing coil energy is returned back out to the driving battery without any extra components to do so.
My idea, is to replicate the circuit function and also to pick up induced energy if possible. Collection may be by the action of the pendulum swinging over pick up coils or some other energy harvesting method.
Lessons learned can hopefully forward the EZ Spin project.

This project is tentatively named the Penduphin :)

To start with, I found some house copper in the shed and bent up/fashioned a support for a cradle to go on to. In the cradle will be tried various sizes and strengths of magnet(s).
A Dollar Tree 'dancing devil' was taken apart and its internals now run the pendulum. Indeed, it's own ceramic magnet sits in the water bottle top derived cradle.
All is mounted on an ex kitchen tile as a good heavy base.

Next up, will be to wire 2x 500ohm coils and a C945 transistor in the same config as Brad's dolphin.  
Then different transistors, powering sources, magnet types. then harvesting.
And, yeah, i'll straighten that copper support a bit.

Here is that first run:

[youtube]gMe2XLoLEBQ[/youtube]


« Last Edit: 2015-01-28, 04:57:42 by Slider2732 »


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Very cool!   O0    I like the way you build things, test them, then iterate and improve.

Brief note on the physics of the pendulum, from the EZ spin thread:
Mark - keep in mind while doing the replication, if you can think how any energy floating around can be re-captured, that's a good goal.  IOW, the coil fly-back, is that being recaptured?  perhaps the return swing of the pendulum also...

   I like the simple pendulum action... there is already a type of resonance there, as the period P is well defined and depends on the length L of the pendulum (from pivot point = low friction!) to the center of mass of the mass M (in this case, magnet).

  Note that the period of the motion T is simply:
P = 2*pi*sqrt{L/g}
plugging in 9.81m/sec^2 for g, we find to a good approximation:

P = 2*sqrt(L) in SI units. 
 So if L=1m, then the period is
P = 2 seconds, since sqrt(1) is just 1.

If L=25cm = 1/4 m, then
P = 2*sqrt(1/4) = 1 second.

The period is the time for round-trip, out and back, returning to the same spot.
The shorter the "string", the shorter the Period - but it does not depend on the mass of the pendulum at all!  just depends on the length L of the pendulum.


(I added a little for clarity.)

    Again, I like the use of the pendulum motion and picking up the fly-back energy.

I wish I could find the swinging-dolphin toy like Tinman has, but they don't appear to be available anywhere anymore...  Its remarkable that it kept swinging 17 years - and then the battery still showed 9V!

There are lots of variations that could be done with your set-up, Mark!  Bifilar coil, change the length L, pick-up coils, add a coupled pendulum,etc...   fun stuff.
   

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Dear Steve.

There are currently two items on eBay UK, USA sellers available at what here in the UK would be considered cheap! Postal costs prohibit a purchase!

Title.Magnetic Continuos Swinging Dolphin.

Hope this helps?

Cheers Graham.


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Grum

With your mechanical skills, I can see you building a large device with perhaps a one oz or one lb pendulum bob oscillating on a nice bearing.

This will get your signal well above the noise floor, making measurements easier. If (big ?) there is any excess energy it will be noticeable.


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Grum

With your mechanical skills, I can see you building a large device with perhaps a one oz or one lb pendulum bob oscillating on a nice bearing.

This will get your signal well above the noise floor, making measurements easier. If (big ?) there is any excess energy it will be noticeable.

Dear ION.

The thought had crossed my mind but as I see it, it is just a single element of " he who shall remain nameless " SSG device.

If TinMan's wife's decoration is anything to go by it would seem old JB was on the money right from the start!!

However, if anyone thinks this might have further merit I would certainly consider a build. One of my hobbies is of an Horological nature, I have well over 20 clocks that were made in the USA, the primary catalyst for the term " Mass Production "!!

Cheers Grum.


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Quote from Grum
Quote
If TinMan's wife's decoration is anything to go by it would seem old JB was on the money right from the start!!

I think you will find that J_Bhoudini is more "in the money stream of the FE circus" than "on the money"


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Steve - On looking at your formula yesterday, I wondered what the example 2 seconds total time would mean for string length. Found a bobbin of cotton and then superglued a ceramic magnet to the cotton end. By timing with the seconds ticking on a clock, it was found that the length would need to be 26".
Whether true or not, i've read that the longer the pendulum length, the less that negative build factors matter.
Hence, I decided to go with smaller while building up and testing and then will improve as things go along :)

ION - Some say JB did have a fully OU idea, in that it's lasted far longer than it should have. We're not his market so, really, no problems in my opinion, except the prices for things like crystal cells. Much like Tesla motors, shouldn't they bring out something of a bargain, to get the wheels rolling in large numbers ?
He kindly publicly acknowledged my prior work with rejuvenating gel type 12V lead/acid batteries when that was touted, so there's no personal axe at all and respect was gained. Another view is that he's like one of those very interesting RexResearch historical footnotes, who's still around and building :)  

Grum - I like the idea of your possible mechanical larger sized build. Any build of mine tends to be SMD (somewhat micro dimensions).
Did find this listing on Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnetic-Continuous-Swinging-Dolphin-Desktop-Collectible-Gift-NEW-/281562642790
It takes a 9V battery too.

Maybe an idea, is to actually copy the balancing and sizing of Brads dolphin, rather than redraw and redesign something that is known to run for 17 years  ???
In that way of thinking - shouldn't these things push on the downward swing, the literal 'kid on a swing' method ?
The electromagnet itself is positioned (in car terms) at TDC and should be advanced a few degrees.


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Just had another look at that Ebay listing.
If our car was running right I could run and collect it LOL
Fort Smith is only about 30 miles away !


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Dear Steve.

There are currently two items on eBay UK, USA sellers available at what here in the UK would be considered cheap! Postal costs prohibit a purchase!

Title.Magnetic Continuos Swinging Dolphin.

Hope this helps?

Cheers Graham.

OK -- we've got it!  I went ahead, before I read any further, and purchased it.  Looks exactly like TinMan's!  errr... TinMan's wife's dolphins.

More options here, btw:

https://www.justdolphins.com/shop/category/dolphin-kinetics/

So one way or the other, we'll SHARE -- that's the principle I live by!

Thanks, Grum and Slider and TinMan!

   
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Congrats! A good historical note in research too.
I like how that site says 'perpetual motion' and, really, who can argue with 17 years and still going  ^-^


Btw, the original name for this build was to have been The Thunder Gods Weapon of Paradigm Destruction, but, it's not exactly a manly looking device is it lol
I've changed the design now to be an emulation of Brads wife's device. Am shaping the pieces at the moment.
The circuit was tried and does work, except the basket rocked around too much. The coils emit a high pitched note on each magnet pass. Current was measured to be 10mA.


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Here's the second build, more in keeping with the design of the original rocking dolphins.

Quick video to show it running.
Next will be some added top weight, in the hopes of improving the pendulum effect, without adding ferrite.
If the balancing weight doesn't do much, ferrite will be added.
It runs, so it's a start :)


[youtube]y87lrUCjCHI[/youtube]



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Here's the second build, more in keeping with the design of the original rocking dolphins.

Quick video to show it running.
Next will be some added top weight, in the hopes of improving the pendulum effect, without adding ferrite.
If the balancing weight doesn't do much, ferrite will be added.
It runs, so it's a start :)


[youtube]y87lrUCjCHI[/youtube]


The strange noise you refer to is the circuit self oscillating. The swinging dolphins circuit dose not self oscillate for some reason, and this probably the reason for the extreem long running time on one battery. Are you using the same transistor Mark?. Maybe the one in the dolfin toy has a built in diode to stop the self oscillatin?.


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It works, Mark!  O0  And that's a good start.

Attached is a photo of the pendulum-dolphins toy that i purchased earlier today. 
Tinman-- can you take a close look -- is this exactly like yours? or at least similar?

Also, I note that Mark measured the current draw with his pendulum yesterday at (IIRC) 10 mA.
If you ever open up your dolphin -resonator again, pls measure the current draw, would you Tinman?  that would be interesting to measure.
   

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It works, Mark!  O0  And that's a good start.

Attached is a photo of the pendulum-dolphins toy that i purchased earlier today. 
Tinman-- can you take a close look -- is this exactly like yours? or at least similar?

Also, I note that Mark measured the current draw with his pendulum yesterday at (IIRC) 10 mA.
If you ever open up your dolphin -resonator again, pls measure the current draw, would you Tinman?  that would be interesting to measure.
Its much the same Steve, my wifes one has the two dolphins side by side-not opposite each other like yours-but you can bet its the same base and drive unit.
I will do a current messurement when I get back from my three day trip-I scored the long run this week with work, but the weather is very nice down this end of the state ATM. Only 1200km to go, and im home in time for the weekend.


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  OK, great - thanks, Tinman.   O0  I'll look forward to that. 

Wishing you a safe drive also.  I've visited Sydney in 2009 -- one of the most beautiful places on the planet!
   
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Indeed, safe travels Brad, Chet mentioned that you basically haul a train around ! 7 or 8 or something trailers on the back of a truck  :o

Yep, it's a C945 transistor, same as the dolphin pendulum.
There is a point to thinking in terms of Base sensitivity and turn on voltage, which will form a round of tests.


This is highly fascinating, Lidmotor posted the original Patent from 1974 on Brads video:
 http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3783550.pdf
Within which, it discusses the circuit and operation thereof.
Described is also what became the 'Top Secret', which you may remember Steve. A spinning top on a black base. There is a nub in the middle of the base that stops it going exactly over the coil and so it seems to bounce around the area randomly, for weeks at a time.

The speed of that rotation gives a 9V battery running time of only a few weeks, as opposed to the years of the much slower moving dolphin type devices.
More pulse firings, faster depletion.
My view, is that the maximum collected energy, post firing and the ability to capture, are the important parts to a chase for OU. Not just super long running, but energy output over that required to run the device.
A fast speed would need fast collection, but a slower speed could allow for easier calibrations and easier evaluations of scavenging routes. Of course, faster speed will bring with it more collection from anything pickup coil related...a fine line ?

This morning saw lots of tests with balancing weights, distances from the fulcrum etc.
I'd be interested to know whether the dolphins sit balanced directly above the coil ?
It seems there is either an attract or repel mode, but both result in the magnet bobbling either next to, or right on top of the coil after no more than a couple of minutes.
Non firing at rest is probably where this one is wrong !
It also sometimes needs extra capacitance on the transistor to begin oscillations...fires up similarly to the Cool Joule, with a screwdriver touch on the transistor if it doesn't auto start.


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This is highly fascinating, Lidmotor posted the original Patent from 1974 on Brads video:
 http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3783550.pdf
Within which, it discusses the circuit and operation thereof.
Described is also what became the 'Top Secret', which you may remember Steve. A spinning top on a black base. There is a nub in the middle of the base that stops it going exactly over the coil and so it seems to bounce around the area randomly, for weeks at a time.

OOOhhhh :o
Dose this mean that this circuit is NOT the invention of john boo-dini C.C

I'm pretty sure that he didn't have the circuit of this running anything back in 74 ???. Have we just discovered that this circuit is NOT the work of JB?>


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Well i hit the road at 2am this morning,and now home nice and early. Doing that current draw test for you Steve,and will upload the video ASAP. Also decided to do a run time test useing the 30 000uf cap bank i used to smooth out the pulses for the current draw test. The current draw is about 800 to 900 uA-just under 1mA O0

As it is 42*C here at the moment,i have just left the dolphins swinging away,and will go check every 5 min's or so-->42*C just a little warm to remain in the workshop,as it has a tin roof.


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I've been sprung :-\
Wife came home early,and caught me red handed lol. But all is good O0-as long as i dont break it she says.
So seen as im on a roll here,i hit her up for her plazma ball for a few experiments O0. Dose any one know if a strong magnet near the plazma balls outer edge will hurt it in any way? :-\

Anyway,here is the video of the current draw test,and run time on 30 000uf at 9v.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9YQcRxTl90


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Once the temp has droped,im hitting the workshop,as i believe i can do much better than this dolphin toy's efficiency-i have a 10 000 ohm coil im wanting to try on a pendulum setup O0

I have no idea as to how many mA hours a 9v battery can deliver,but regardless,17 odd years seems way to long looking at how fast it use the energy stored in the 30 000uf cap bank :-\
I asked my wife again if she remembers changing the battery,and she still insist that she hasnt changed it-->more still,she said she dosnt even know what battery it takes lol.

I cannot detect any energy return to the battery-even on the scope,so im really stuck on this one.


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Dear Brad.

Re, Plazma lamp.

I used a small conical one for experimentation into some of Don Smiths ideas. I found that a rolled Aluminium cover could be placed over the glass envelope and HV Diodes placed anywhere could provide me with a few Kilovolts. Over time a corner of the Ali cover made a hot spot that finally penetrated the glass rendering it useless!

Funnily enough I never tried looking at what a strong magnetic field would do to the Plazma, but I would suggest not presenting a sharp corner to the glass for prolonged periods.

On a more comical note, I bought a replacement, put it on a shelf for future use, only to be knocked off my my youngest, you guessed it, the Genie escaped !!  :)

Cheers Graham.


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Dear Brad.

Re, Plazma lamp.

I used a small conical one for experimentation into some of Don Smiths ideas. I found that a rolled Aluminium cover could be placed over the glass envelope and HV Diodes placed anywhere could provide me with a few Kilovolts. Over time a corner of the Ali cover made a hot spot that finally penetrated the glass rendering it useless!

Funnily enough I never tried looking at what a strong magnetic field would do to the Plazma, but I would suggest not presenting a sharp corner to the glass for prolonged periods.

On a more comical note, I bought a replacement, put it on a shelf for future use, only to be knocked off my my youngest, you guessed it, the Genie escaped !!  :)

Cheers Graham.
Well it seems they are quite cheap-about $18.00,so worth a few strong magnetic field test i recon O0.
Anyway,time to go throw together a pendulum setup.


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Enjoyed the video Brad, I gained some knowledge that before yesterday wouldn't have known to ask about - the swing itself.
During tests, whatever has been tried has resulted in either a push away to a small distance from the coil or an attract that left it sitting right on top of it. The realisation ? weight ! My assembly is too light !
Watching your video, the magnet goes up further on the swing back than the swing forward.
The weight of the assembly is what is swinging it through the downward interaction and out to be pushed upward further.

I think JB managed to gain a Patent because the use was to charge a battery. His circuit has the protection diode, 2 batteries and a wheel full of magnets rather than 1. It obfuscates very well even if the magnetic switching principle is the same. Would be interesting to see if the examiners included the 1974 Patent in the listed Searches.


A catch up, i've been looking at the Top Secret spinning top toy and fixed it. When attempting a replication some time ago a wire snapped, but it's now repaired and it works fine. It's the same principle and the device itself is right there in the 1974 Patent.
However, this seems to have 6 wires  ???
It uses an S8050 transistor, 700mA capable, overkill lol
I made a coil of similar dimensions to the original, to try on it. Used 30AWG and 40AWG that were already bi-filar from a previous project and wound them onto a coil form from an old TV. The form had ferrite down the middle. It hasn't worked, probably due to just 20ohms on the 30AWG, 154ohms on the 40AWG, 900 turns.
Although it didn't work, it was a huge amount of fun after putting a '472' (4.7K) variable pot on the base. The thing makes sci-fi warbling noises when the spinning top is above the coil  :D The pot increases the frequency, from about ~8KHz to above audible.  
Will try the 'dancing' coils on it for sure today.
I have some 40AWG and will make a coil that's similar to the Patent description drawing, 500 turns and 1500 turns, rather than 1:1 bi-filar.
That coil will also be used on the pendulum, to see if there are differences.

And - the Protek oscilloscope gave a trace signal last night on the pendulum WOOT!
The trace does have a negative dip (will get vid or a pic today).
When I first got it, some of the buttons and switches seemed a bit loose. The 'On' light would go off and on quite randomly too. Then it seemed to only work for detecting mains hum, which was odd. Found that it's got flaky worn pots, because if I move them just right it works. It's just like old audio amps, where you can hear scratching as you move the volume control or something.


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Quote slider:  It's just like old audio amps, where you can hear scratching as you move the volume control or something.

Then like we did to the old radio's,just a quick squirt with CRC or WD40 dose wonders O0

well there was a plan of getting into the work shop to try my new found 10 000 ohm coil. This i retrieved from an old car ignition coil-it was the secondary. When i conect a 1.5v battery to it,i can actually feel the push against a flat neo magnet 50 x 20 x 3mm.
The current draw is around 150uA. If we have even a high 10% on time,that constant current would drop to around 15uA @ 1.5v O0 . so a 1.5v battery with a 700mAh rateing should last around 46666 hours or 1944 days,or 5.32 years. ???
Even this dosnt add up to the 16+ years run time on the rocking dolphins. I know the 9v battery would have more storage capacity than an everyday 1.5 volt battery,but this much more :o


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Good to hear you are continuing on, Mark!  great progress.  Your learning by experience = a great treasure.

Quote
And - the Protek oscilloscope gave a trace signal last night on the pendulum
WOOT!
The trace does have a negative dip (will get vid or a pic today).

Looking forward to the pic... WOOT!
   
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