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Author Topic: Pulse charging of lead-acid batteries  (Read 9643 times)
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Browsing through my old papers I came across this one on pulse charging of lead-acid batteries.  Not being an electro-chemical expert I may have got the chemistry wrong so please correct me if that is the case.  The point being made here is that for short pulses you can get the required chemical reaction on the plates before ions have had time to travel across the plate separation distance.  That seems to offer the potential for an OU charging process.  If this is true the pulse chargers that are on offer using flyback back-emf spikes may not get their OU from the electronic circuit, it could just be in the use of a fast pulse.  Any old fast pulse will do.  Comments welcome.

Smudge
   
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Browsing through my old papers I came across this one on pulse charging of lead-acid batteries.  Not being an electro-chemical expert I may have got the chemistry wrong so please correct me if that is the case.  The point being made here is that for short pulses you can get the required chemical reaction on the plates before ions have had time to travel across the plate separation distance.  That seems to offer the potential for an OU charging process.  If this is true the pulse chargers that are on offer using flyback back-emf spikes may not get their OU from the electronic circuit, it could just be in the use of a fast pulse.  Any old fast pulse will do.  Comments welcome.

Smudge

Smudge,

Thanks for posting your analysis of lead acid chemistry charging/discharging.  Do I understand correctly that if one wished to charge a lead acid cell from itself, it may be possible by charging an inductor with the normal (long) time integral and then somehow discharging this energy in a short time integral to satisfy your equation 8?

Most interesting topic for me!

partzman
   
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Smudge,

Thanks for posting your analysis of lead acid chemistry charging/discharging.  Do I understand correctly that if one wished to charge a lead acid cell from itself, it may be possible by charging an inductor with the normal (long) time integral and then somehow discharging this energy in a short time integral to satisfy your equation 8?

Most interesting topic for me!

partzman

Yes, the inductor discharge voltage spike would have to momentarily pump current backwards into the battery but that is easily arranged.

Smudge
   
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The Bedini SG people do  lot of  this. They speak of conditioning and of desulphating batteries.
   
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The ###### SG people do  lot of  this. They speak of conditioning and of desulphating batteries.
Please educate me, who are the ###### SG people?

Smudge
   
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we had a situation here a few years back ,and this mans name
B
E
D
I
N
I

is not to be written here ,  pretty sure we can say it [as long as nobody hears  :D]
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Smudge,

Thanks for posting your analysis of lead acid chemistry charging/discharging.  Do I understand correctly that if one wished to charge a lead acid cell from itself, it may be possible by charging an inductor with the normal (long) time integral and then somehow discharging this energy in a short time integral to satisfy your equation 8?

Most interesting topic for me!

partzman

There are many commercial products that do exactly this. I suggested a few circuits on my bench in this thread and gave a link to one commercial product.     http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=604.0

Sterling Power used to make a device but may have discontinued it.

The spike is useful for desulphation but cannot actually bootstrap the battery to a higher charge from a lower charge condition. If there is residual charge it allows you to get at it by slowly breaking down the sulphated layer and allowing the original charge through.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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There are many commercial products that do exactly this. I suggested a few circuits on my bench in this thread and gave a link to one commercial product.     http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=604.0

Sterling Power used to make a device but may have discontinued it.

The spike is useful for desulphation but cannot actually bootstrap the battery to a higher charge from a lower charge condition. If there is residual charge it allows you to get at it by slowly breaking down the sulphated layer and allowing the original charge through.

ION,

I've read your bench regarding this subject and my question is, was there any indication at any time in all the tests run of any possible self charging of the host battery?

partzman
   
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Please educate me, who are the ###### SG people?

Smudge

Ask the moderators.

To help you out, I will mention that I reverse my way to sleep for the night.
   
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I don't know how to setup new thread so please make it for me.  I found video of another inventor replicating propably Akula device
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=43&v=4HyKfkPtlW4
   
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I don't know how to setup new thread so please make it for me.  I found video of another inventor replicating probably Akula device
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=43&v=4HyKfkPtlW4
New thread? There is almost ALWAYS an existing one. Here you have 3 to choose from:

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?board=96.0
   
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Ask the moderators.

To help you out, I will mention that I reverse my way to sleep for the night.
I didn't notice Chet's useful intervention above!

Suffice it to say that the followers of Señor Futonini have a decade of experience in this matter.
   
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It's turtles all the way down
ION,

I've read your bench regarding this subject and my question is, was there any indication at any time in all the tests run of any possible self charging of the host battery?

partzman

I never saw any charging, in fact the desulfation circuit eventually depletes the battery,  using the batteries own energy to break down the sulfation.

The battery when sulfated has a very high internal resistance, too high for most battery chargers to break down unless left on for a very long time. I have a special current source charger made a long time ago by C&D Batteries that can break down sulfation, it's open circuit voltage is around 140 Volts.

The circuit on my bench delivers a low energy high voltage pulse to overcome the high impedance state of the sulfated battery.

It is a basic circuit that can be scaled to your liking.

Regards, ION



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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   

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Aye, it is true that those Desulfators which are powered by the
battery they're rejuvenating will discharge the battery.  Unless,
that is, a trickle charger or float charger is attached to the
battery being rejuvenated to power the desulfator.

All of my home-built desulfators are powered by 'wall wart'
power supplies so that only desulfation pulses are applied to
the batteries being recovered.

Unless the battery being pulsed is in known good condition
with minimal sulfation the pulsing should not be too powerful.
I have experienced the undesirable consequences of pulsing
batteries with too much vigor and it is messy.  Battery explosions
are surprisingly powerful.  Defective batteries are prone to explode
under certain conditions.


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The animal mind ALWAYS reacts to what it does not understand. This is what sets dogs barking. If you are going to tell the truth, you are going to have to be okay with barking dogs, because they will harry your passage until you pass through town.
Les Visible - 27 February 2020
   

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I beg to differ with some of the pessimistic comments here.
Here is the King of this sort of thing IMHO

http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Patents/Benitez/GB191514311A.pdf

Let those who have ears to hear, hear.

Been there, done that, got the T shirt.


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VAR is just an angle on a scope. Nothing to see here -  move on.
   
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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
In the Benitez drawings, he says that '53' is grounded via 2 other wires, but I do wonder if a real earth ground would work better on that system. It's curious how he has a grounding symbol in the first case.
The Berdini types use less amperage when fine tuned with one and, indeed, his own Patent has a real Ground that is often overlooked.

For my thoughts, these things work and they work well. The simplest of SSG can bring back lesser damaged cells of car batteries if you give the thing a couple of days of running. They certainly work nicely for alum converted life expired car batteries, got 2 here.
The thing is, just from my perspective, that my solar panels only produce 2 Amps and that's not good enough for car battery charging during a sunny day. A sharp pulse flyback system can run at much lower amperage and fully charge the battery.
So there's no need to run a car battery on the front end, when the sun is out.

If I may throw this quick video in. It shows the low power requirements needed to run a very simple version, able to pulse strongly enough from late afternoon sun at 180mA, to run a lightbulb.
[youtube]4yYSuqDEXQY[/youtube]


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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   
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Hello,

I just came to this forum today. Call me Mike ( from germany)

Concerning this topic of pulscharging I did some research a few years ago and discovered the attached document.
Please go to page 22 where there is a description of the buck-converter-technique (10. How to drive a buck converter )
In Fig. 24 you find a batt-charger based on this technique.
I have to confess I have not buit it so I have no experience with this kind of charger-technique.
I only use 50 Hz-Puls-charging wich was a dicsussion longe ago I had with chet at overunity.com

Regards

Mike
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Kator01

Welcome to the forum Mike.

Regards
ION


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Mike
Yes it is Good to see you here, there are some very interesting investigations happening ATM on the forum.
IMO for extra energy to enter a battery system [thru the actual battery] a chemical reaction or MO would need to be specified.
would seem some type of LENR or similar would need to be in play ??

one never knows where an LENR claim can come from these days

http://www.slideshare.net/lewisglarsen/lattice-energy-llc-surprising-similarities-between-lenr-active-sites-and-enzymatic-catalysis-march-20-2015

Chet K
   
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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Welcome Mike from me too :)

Chet:
Quote
one never knows where an LENR claim can come from these days
Then I read your link as lettuce not lattice !
Low Energy Nutritional Reaction ?


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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   
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Well then

"lettuce" investigate the Lattice  8)

BTW that " lettuce"  link came from here .
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20070-alexander-parkhomov-lenr-happening-now.html

thx

Chet K
   
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 ;D like A king I too have wrestled for hours with the 3BGS and the Houdini SSG :D .. I think its part of OU adolescence … the difficult years !
The brash approach is seen above … do they self sustain well the answer my rash friend is .. yes oh yes
however frustratingly , (very very frustratingly) only sometimes.
There is an x factor involved and with a few links I'm going to try and point in the direction I think it lies. There are hundreds of pulse charging circuits , here is just one of many for your inspection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvKa4zneaRQ

still it is not the pulse charger that concerns but rather what that pulse is doing to the battery. I also beg you to keep in mind this is Bemf very different stuff in every respect to the electric you are familiar with … It is perhaps better regarded as Chi .. It zapps like electric .. it charges things .. it does stuff but you can't measure it (not with present day instruments anyway) watch what happens when someone tries

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F3ovb2kZ9Q

This is the area the nay sayers and power in power out numpties trip bluster and break things !
In very basic electrical terms assuming 'perfect' the condition where a component (in this case a lead acid battery) is called resonant ,uses no energy. there are two commonly taught AC resonant states , series resonance and parallel resonance. I tell you now from experience it is series resonance you need to focus on.
Why so? This is what it seems series resonance and its overtones can do even be it at a molecular level

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvJAgrUBF4w

But first things .. first, can what is effectively a square wave or pulse and really DC actually achieve resonance? Then ...
Is it possible that a LA battery (or any battery for that matter) could be charged ' at resonance' using no 'real power' lets see what 'gotoluc' O0 says on the subject of resonance ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJQvqTpBdiQ

conclusive then … all (symmetric at least)  waveforms turn to a beautiful sine wave AT RESONANCE, consider (for your own sake) would asymmetric waves and what you call radiant energy join the party too ?after all it is what is under that curve which is all important.
can a lead acid battery be resonant ? Well this is 'I' enjoying an evening Shiraz some years ago whilst injecting a square wave into a LA battery to demonstrate that it is so and so could be done

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwMCs1gO2o8

Those who have spent many years studying and enjoying  free energy and its attendant circus know very well that anything really useful that directly leads to massive COP>1 is quickly hoovered up and removed from the www. Indeed once you get the knack of it this removal and/or besmirching done by tptb (the powers that be for you new guys)It tells you better than any sign post or x marks the spot exactly where to dig. This is particularly the case not so much with 'pulse chargers' (because they are pretty hit and miss) but certainly RESONANT pulse chargers. they are jumped on PDQ … do you think they might be hugely COP>1 ?  ;D ;) clue ..It doesn't take Sherlock!
If you would care to view a LA battery as a huge capacitor with the dielectric being the electrolyte a little thought should tell you that this capacitor has a constantly changing dielectric and also  constantly changing  plates …. holding resonance or anything like it then becomes extremely difficult particularly as you no doubt want to introduce the battery to a load R
you recall I wrote pretty much anything to do with 'resonant charging'  or sweep frequency charging is hoovered up, here is one such that I have kept I have converted it to PDF and loaded on my own cloud thingy because I would like you to see it ,I think Its close you see … very close, as the man says “food for thought"

http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b1/max.pdf

 I would also like you to consider that a sulphated battery is nothing more than a box of crystals and so there is also something of the crystal about a healthy battery.
Chrystal is a fractal construction and you might recall in that video I made some years ago I referred to the battery as an antenna  … Its true , but of course I see a little more through the fog now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLvXaOJAH1Y

George wiseman some time ago used capacitor charging (pulse charging) to run his house in such a way that the utility company was forced to pay him for the privilege of heating his home. George does good work so I wont go into detail of what he sells, Its his bread and butter after all

http://www.eagle-research.com/cms/store/free-energy/reverse-your-electric-meter-legally

At the same time should it have piqued you interest this might be enough to tell you what George is doing … especially the 'cracking and popping' bit

http://www.johnsavesenergy.com/CapacitiveBatteryCharger.html#.VRzieVItFdg

remember folks batteries are measured in AMP/ HOURS they do not DO NOT require POWER!! at SERIES RESONANCE since P=VI cos Φ and  cos Φ=0 at resonance = no power so also of course = No energy ,(not from an acknowledged dimension anyway)  So feast your battery on lots of amps whilst expending minuscule 'real power'
to put this another way and say it loud and clear for you ' The lead acid battery is more than happy .. delighted in fact .. to charge from VARs … get in that zone and the battery starts showing its pleasure by freezing a little bit for you .Lord Voldemort .. tells us this

'After my 35 years of experiments with the term "free energy" and "over unity machines". This is what it turns out to be "Reactive power" and that's it.' on this web page

http://merlib.org/node/5508 its not quite 'that's it ... it goes on forever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yE4d7O17wE and so do you.
kind regards Duncan








 
 
« Last Edit: 2015-04-02, 11:42:18 by Duncan »


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How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
D. Erasmus
   
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