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Author Topic: Erfinder's multi-strand bucking generator coils  (Read 25933 times)
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Hi everyone,

I'm presently attempting a replication of Erfinder's multi-strand bucking generator coils which he has demonstrated in this video: http://vimeo.com/117820507

I bought the 7 strand Litz = 10 gauge wire used on ebay.

The finished coil measure 2"1/4 wide x 2"1/2 diameter. The core is transformer laminations and about 5/8" square.
The bobbins were wire spools with a round center but I used a heat gun to soften the center to fit the square core and re-shape it to fit.

The pic shows the build at this time.

Luc
   
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Thanks Vladimir for dropping in and posting your positive comment.

I'm also looking forward in seeing this effect.

Stay tuned

Luc
   
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Hi everyone,

I'm presently attempting a replication of Erfinder's multi-strand bucking generator coils which he has demonstrated in this video: http://vimeo.com/117820507

I bought the 7 strand Litz = 10 gauge wire used on ebay.

The finished coil measure 2"1/4 wide x 2"1/2 diameter. The core is transformer laminations and about 5/8" square.
The bobbins were wire spools with a round center but I used a heat gun to soften the center to fit the square core and re-shape it to fit.

The pic shows the build at this time.

Luc

I wish you would have asked more questions before winding your coils.  I don't twist my windings, I don't because of the effect twisting has on the parasitic capacitance of the coil.  I mentioned this ages ago on the energetic forum with relation to being able to manipulate the inductance of a triflilar coil, this was back in 2010 following the big Ferris Wheel presentation.  

So that its a fair comparison, I highly recommend you, and I am not sorry for having to point this out, wind new coils which aren't twisted, and as a prime mover, you should use a PWM driven pulse motor.  I have seen your replications of other devices which show similar result, and in all of them you used a prime mover which I would never even consider.

The effect can be had with a single coil, I will be demonstrating this soon using one of my old two coil pulse motors, the motor and drive coils are identical.  Both motor and gen coil have welding rod cores, each has:

6 strands of 18AWG
6.5mH @ 0.6 ohms  (6 strands in parallel)

I have shared this concept with one of my German friends and he immediately got the effect, so if you and others can't demonstrate the effect it matters little to me because he did, all I need is one to see what I see, I know that in time others will as well.  I am also dusting my insanely large 12 coil pulse motor and making a few modifications on it so that it to will produce this effect, using 2x of its trifilars as motor coils, and the rest as gen coils which will supply a huge transformer based reactor which amplifies the effect.  This will be demonstrated in two maybe three months, I have other priorities, and when that is accomplished, I will post it for all to see and at that point officially don't care if others can't accomplish the same or similar, because at that point the effect was demonstrated 3 times in 3 different machines.

I will keep my fingers crossed and hope that you get it to work.

---- Added ----

Almost forgot, a replication isn't what this is, honestly I don't know what this is, I am oblivious as to what your goal or motivation is.  Like all attempts to copy, they all usually lead to folks plugging the device into the scope and looking at meters, and programs for calculations.  You don't see me doing this, if and when I connect the scope its to show you a wave form, and not to ascertain whether the system is giving back more than is being put in.  I have no interest in such childish things.  If you or anyone else turns this into a game of numbers, know that in doing so, you miss the point.  I am not looking for more out than in, I am looking for something far better.  The way I see it, and I am deluded, I don't care.  I am looking for the drain plug which coils are an embodiment of, once I have found it, I will establish those conditions whereby the blockage is removed, allow that high pressure condition which exists both outside and within the system to equalize, if this system is allowed to oscillate, referencing itself, or a mirror image of itself, I will be the happiest person on the planet. 

I am not on the beaten path I desire more than the mediocre, there is more going on between and about those turns than I am qualified to even contemplate about.  My lack of qualification makes me the perfect man for the job, using the only tool I have, my intuition, and as inspiration, my dreams.......I will find what I am seeking, I leave you with the following words:


"HAD I the heavens’ embroidered cloths,
Enwrought with golden and silver light,
The blue and the dim and the dark cloths
Of night and light and the half light,
I would spread the cloths under your feet:
But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams."

W.B. Yeats (1865–1939)


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I wish you would have asked more questions before winding your coils.  I don't twist my windings, I don't because of the effect twisting has on the parasitic capacitance of the coil.

Hi Erfinder,

thanks for your post with additional details.

I did ask you about the twisting of wires in this post: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2678.msg44832#msg44832
Q: I found some enamel litz wire but the strands are neatly twisted together, do you think it would affect the results?

and you replied: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2678.msg44833#msg44833
A: Regarding whether the twisted strands are going to be an issue....I don't know, I haven't, and don't plan on making that comparison.  My windings aren't twisted, no plan, just wound the wire onto the bobbins.

If you would of mentioned the effect is dependent on the coils parasitic capacitance I would not of purchased this twisted wire as I know wire twisting screws up parasitic capacitance and the very reason I asked before spending $50. on these 2 crossover network coils.

I have experimented and designed special geometry coils for Thane that increases coil parasitic capacitance which also keeps resistance Low, so it's too bad you did not mention it before.

A month ago I was planing on demonstrating the effects of coil parasitic capacitance in a topic I started at the OU Forum but MileHigh flooded the topic so I closed it. Maybe we can work together and do it in this topic as I have moderator privileges setup here.

Now that I know one perimeter of your bucking coils can you please let me know if the coils close proximity matters?... since if it does, this would save time as I can make a coil geometry that will allow to bring the coils closer together then you did in your test. I could also make it adjustable so I could  bring the coils closer or farther apart on the fly so the benefit could be demonstrated. But if you know coil proximity does not matter then no point in spending time on this.

I was already working on getting a better prime mover together ;)

If there is anything else that you can think of or you would like me to build in the test device please let me know.

Kind regards

Luc

   
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Hi everyone,

Just want to write the following bit before my heavy as lead bricks eyelids close on me...lol

Tested 3 of my air core coils with a crappy core today and gotten the same results as erfinder...lots of activity(sparks) and speed under load when shorted at low rpm but my rotor is a 18 pole...it is what i already gad installed on one of my pulse motors... O0
It's was just 3 quick test to test my own thinking about this and i didn't fool myself... C.C

I will wriye much more lateron...having trouble even reading the bloody keynoards letters now and that's with my glasses on...lol

Don't go bananas because i've used a 18 pole rotor...wait till you read the rest... >:-)

Cheers

Sounds interesting MC. Looking forward in a demo

Luc
   
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Luc
Please remove this post if you feel its inappropriate .
there have been some Negotiations going on at OU.com regarding Changing some things.

  I have asked MH if he will assist with some respectful replications over at OU.com
and we actually might have something in the works with TinselKoala helping with
 some of these projects.
Note*[his recent help with Chris's work over the last few days is an example
 of what this can look like .

 We have recently started to gather funds to purchase a DSO for
 this work [for Tinsel] its a piece of equipment which he lacks .
  
 MH and members here and at OU.COM   are helping with this acquisition.
[ we almost have enuff to purchase ]

we need all the assets we can muster in this community .

So perhaps some things are changing,..if not ..we have
 plenty of what we need right here,....fingers crossed  O0

respectfully
Chet



 

« Last Edit: 2015-02-05, 21:21:53 by Chet K »
   
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Sounds good Chet O0

Hope this can bring on a new outlook for MH and TK

I'll look into it when I have time

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For the sake of research I have decided to continue with the windings and build of the coils even though we may not get an effect if coil parasitic capacitance is needed. This way we will have a device to confirm it's needed or not.

If parasitic capacitance is needed, I have coil geometry design that I built over a year ago which have huge capacitance values. Basically I'll let one of the cats out of the bag... wattsup suggested flat wire and he was close. I use copper foil tape which I insulate the layers with thin clear packing tape. Attached is a picture of a small pocket one I brought with me as I'm away from my home at this time. Each beginning and end of the copper layers have a enamel wire soldered to the copper foil tape to make the connections.

I was going to introduce all of this in the tread MH crashed but I may as well share it now as some may want to experiment with this in Chris Sykes bucking coil topic. Who knows, parasitic capacitance may help as well?

Link to tape on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2055845.m570.l1311.R1.TR10.TRC2.A0.H0.Xcopper+foil&_nkw=copper+foil+tape&_sacat=0

Basically, the wider the tape the less coil resistance and the more the capacitance between layers. It's all a wining combination O0

I still have a few things left to share if and when the time comes.

Stay tuned for more updates.

Luc
   
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Hi everyone,

I've put together a quick and simple test bed of Erfinder's multi strand bucking gen coils.
Please understand this quick build is not a replication of Erfinder's setup, so my test results and conclusion may not reflect his test device.

If Erfinder can give us more details, like what happens when a resistive load like 1, 5 and 10 Ohms (instead of a short) is placed on his coils... does the acceleration reduce as resistive load is greater?... that would be helpful to know. Also, as I demonstrated, does the voltage across the load stay the same even if you increase or reduce RPM.
From my experience of working with Thane Heins Regen-X gen coils,  both these effects are present and would be no surprise that we are looking at the same thing done in a different way.
I must say that the combination of multi stand and bucking is what got my attention and I'm still interested in further research to test this idea.

Link to first test video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytQjniF7l9U

Please post your comments

Luc
   
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No replication can happen if no plans are provided.  No real comparison can be made if the comparison isn't based on a replication.  I don't provide plans because I am not the least bit interested in peer review.  I am not looking for what the majority are looking for, and here I make no assumption to know what others are after, I base this statement on what I see being presented, what I see leads me to conclude that we are not on the same page. The purpose of my demonstration was to establish a baseline, to show the existence of:

  • acceleration under short
  • possible at low frequency
  • using coils of low resistance
  • using coils of low inductance

I accomplished this task.  The configuration is bucking, however, this is an "induced" condition, more important than knowing that you are dealing with a bucking scenario is knowing "when" does the bucking take place.  Don't turn this into more than what I demonstrated, and please know that your use of the word "bucking" in your explanations and demonstrations is not my use of the term, most have no interest in my use of the term. 

I am not interested in making a comparison of input at different "resistance" values!  Why would you do that?  My base line has been established, that being a low inductance low frequency system, one in which the desired effect "acceleration" manifests when the short is made, overall the impedance is low.  It is clear that this is an impedance based phenomena, and it is the impedance, therefore, not the DC resistance which should be varied, your load should therefore have a low DC resistance, and high reactive component be it inductive or capacitive.   

I said in the beginning that I have no interest in the game of numbers, and if this is where you all want to take this, I want no parts of it.  You can play around with numbers without me.  You can do your tests and say that this is nothing more than a repeat of what we know, I support you your coming to that conclusion, however, owing to my own experience, I can't agree with you.....AT ALL, but I do respect and support that you don't see more than you do. 

I don't give you more than I have because I am looking for the few who possess the ability to think without limits. 



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Hi MC,

thanks for your tests.
I'm not sure how your coil tests fit in this topic as it was intended for testing Erfinder's pair of low resistance, low inductance multi strand gen coils connected in bucking configuration.

Luc
   
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No replication can happen if no plans are provided.  

I agree!... this was my own interest in testing this interesting combination of multi strand and bucking coils combined

No real comparison can be made if the comparison isn't based on a replication.

I also agree and said many times this is not a replication.

I don't provide plans because I am not the least bit interested in peer review.  I am not looking for what the majority are looking for, and here I make no assumption to know what others are after, I base this statement on what I see being presented, what I see leads me to conclude that we are not on the same page. The purpose of my demonstration was to establish a baseline, to show the existence of:

  • acceleration under short
  • possible at low frequency
  • using coils of low resistance
  • using coils of low inductance

Even though my quick build is not a replication, I was able to demonstrate 3 of the effects you've listed and I am surprised it did so well considering all the differences between our builds.
The only thing I was not able to demonstrate is "possible at low frequency" and I would like to also see sparks like you demonstrated. I'm quite sure this could be achieved once I have it to a level of close replication. I'm looking forward to see the difference of winding new coils without the wires being twisted which should result in an increase in capacitance which should help in lowering the RPM the acceleration takes place. So I'm happy to have this test bed even though it's not ideal so I have something to measure the progress.

I accomplished this task.  The configuration is bucking, however, this is an "induced" condition, more important than knowing that you are dealing with a bucking scenario is knowing "when" does the bucking take place.  Don't turn this into more than what I demonstrated, and please know that your use of the word "bucking" in your explanations and demonstrations is not my use of the term, most have no interest in my use of the term.  

I do agree the only bucking in my setup is the way the coils are connected. From what I understand and correct me if I'm wrong, bucking coils would need to be in close proximity as it's an induced effect between coils in close proximity. I had asked to confirm that in my above post but got no reply.

I am not interested in making a comparison of input at different "resistance" values!  Why would you do that?  My base line has been established, that being a low inductance low frequency system, one in which the desired effect "acceleration" manifests when the short is made, overall the impedance is low.  It is clear that this is an impedance based phenomena, and it is the impedance, therefore, not the DC resistance which should be varied, your load should therefore have a low DC resistance, and high reactive component be it inductive or capacitive.

I agree and thank you for reminding me. It's a habit of testing, so don't take offense from it.
  
I said in the beginning that I have no interest in the game of numbers, and if this is where you all want to take this, I want no parts of it.  You can play around with numbers without me.  You can do your tests and say that this is nothing more than a repeat of what we know, I support you your coming to that conclusion, however, owing to my own experience, I can't agree with you.....AT ALL, but I do respect and support that you don't see more than you do.  

I respect your research and don't plan on turning this in a game of numbers. Give me a little lee way here and not be too quick to conclude my intentions as this was just a quick and non complete test. I really want to take this to a level I'm sure will surprise even you. However, I will be doing measurements so I have something to compare one setup to another in order to guide me to the ideal configuration.

I don't give you more than I have because I am looking for the few who possess the ability to think without limits.  

In time you may. Did you not find my multi layer foil coil an interesting idea to further increase coil capacitance while keeping resistance low and windings close to the core?

Regards

Luc
« Last Edit: 2015-02-06, 09:24:06 by gotoluc »
   
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Did you not find my multi layer foil coil an interesting idea to further increase coil capacitance while keeping resistance low and windings close to the core?

Regards

Luc

The coil is one of a kind Luc, what's the inductance look like on that coil?  

Just so you know, of the many things I am looking for, capacitance in the true sense is at the top of my list.  Parasitic capacitance has its place, but isn't what I am after.  Don't you find it strange that inductance is real, but capacitance is parasitic?  What if capacitance is real, but its effects on the system as we set them up is parasitic?  What is the relation between inductance and capacitance?  There is one, we are reminded of this relation more often than not in patents Tesla received where he specifically addresses the relation between self induction and capacity.  Mind you, those examples limit you to one frequency of operation, was that the message?  I tend to think that the message was "this is how you separate the one from the many....., the weak signal you can't hear but are able to detect via the proper relations between self induction and capacity......individualization, synchronization with the one that we want"  If individualizing, and or synchronizing is what we are doing, then why do we call it resonance, and not individualization or synchronization?  Were we to do this, then the condition we call resonance could take on a much deeper, meaning, one which amplifies the aforementioned.

Before the definition can be augmented however, it must be acknowledged that there are two aspects to this thing we call resonance, we see them separate, we compartmentalize everything.  On the one hand we have a circuit which is in my opinion, when operating in so called resonance, is the embodiment of maximum opposition to change in current, and in the other sense we have a circuit which when operating in so called resonance, is the embodiment of maximum opposition to change in potential.  In my mind we have advanced from seeing these two, (opposition to change in current, and opposition to change in potential) from being circuit characteristics tied to the component or circuit aspects, inductance and capacitance proper, to complex mechanism which rely on oscillation, a complex form of motion operating multiple on axis, and dimensions, the latter is just a word.

Invert the inductance Luc and we no longer need special configurations.  I want to maximize the circuits opposition to change in potential, effectively making the coil function as if it were a cap, a capacitor whose capacitance is equivalent to the coils  measured inductance, in my opinion, capacitance and inductance are one.  We must proceed with caution and with hindsight, if we eliminate the circuits ability to oppose changes in current prematurely, and or improperly, we loose the ability to induce the potentials that we wish to oppose, with that, you can begin to appreciate the power and significance of bucking.


Regards
« Last Edit: 2015-02-06, 09:26:47 by gotoluc »
   
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Thanks for sharing your views.

We are on similar quests and maybe my inductive capacitor coil ideas can be tested to see if they help.
I'm not at the lab at this time but tomorrow I'll give you the copper foils width, length measurement and a Resistive, Inductive and Capacitive readings.

Regards

Luc



   
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Thanks for sharing your views.

We are on similar quests and maybe my inductive capacitor coil ideas can be tested to see if they help.
I'm not at the lab at this time but tomorrow I'll give you the copper foils width, length measurement and a Resistive, Inductive and Capacitive readings.

Regards

Luc


I look forward to the info you will be passing along. 

As I stated, whether the views I express have merit or not form the perspective of the majority is of very little interest to me.  Its my view, I know what I want, and find my self getting closer and closer to possessing it.  When you get current limiting under your control, you will experience, massive rise in voltage in the output of your circuit.  Most people laugh when they see insane spikes that do nothing more than literally destroy the circuits that are monitoring them.  For the last 10+ years the community has been conditioned.  We have been exposed to an idea, that idea being that changing magnetic fields yield spikes.  The learned laugh because this is nothing special.  Which camp represents truth, the one leading folks to useless voltage gradients, or those who say that a spike is useless?  I have learned to ignore both camps and see the greatest common denominator.  The spike didn't create itself, and that which is responsible for its production was never captured! 

My view is what I'm sharing not technology, I really hope that message is clear. 


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Hi gotoluc, hi Erl :) It is really very interesting topic related to Sykes partnered coils. What i 'd like to say is that RPM is very relative to the output result. Tuning will bring the maximum effects. Rpm is usually very low compares to the ringing oscillations, so a cap in series with your coils combined with the right RPM frequency will give the best output. But i guess you already know that.

The most important thing for me is the unsymmetrical application of primary fields (spinning magnet) to your output bucking coils. If it is exactly in the middle as you have it gotoluc, it won't help as current has to flow inside your output coils. Better application to prove my point is to have both of your coils in the same core, and spinning the magnet from one side of your core. But before proceeding, visualize first why current is not moving when we have symmetrical apply of primary fields.

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Sorry!
« Last Edit: 2015-02-12, 22:46:33 by wattsup »


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No problem Luc,

There is no need for two coils to get this effect at low rpm...one coil is enough... ;)
I'll leave this for you and others...

@ erfinder...you use a way to much expensive and scientific words describing something that isn't that complicated at all and I see you finally use the magic characteristic word above... C.C
In postings of yours i see a lot of frustrations man which is never good...
Even if you do not like how it all goes in this FE community never focus on the negative and because of this you always seems to be in a defense mode...... ;)

Cheers
Vladimir

I mean you no disrespect, I mentioned in a previous post that the effect can be accomplished with a single coil, and was going to make that demonstration in a few days, other priorities.  I also mentioned that a friend of mine got the effect with a single coil, so you throwing that at Luc is well....you didn't have to make the comment.   Your opinion of me means little, good or bad.  I enjoy doing what I do, and expressing myself the way I do.  What I am after is complicated, and I will use as many words as I feel are necessary for me to make my point.  If my words overwhelm you then you could interpret that as meaning that this isn't for you.  I am not being defensive, call this an allergic reaction to what I call BS.    

You have the right to think and do what you like, that includes forming conclusions which are not in agreement with what I am trying to share.  I guarantee you have no idea what I am talking about nor where I am going with all this hot air.  When I am done I will be demonstrating a hell of a lot more than reduced cogging and lighting up a few LED's.  I enjoy watching your films, your attention to detail is admirable, your machines run like clocks, the wood work is breath taking.  This isn't sarcasm its a true blue compliment, I hope to be able to share something with one with your skill set. Please finish your present project, take it as far as you can take it, then set it down, and let me share a few things with you that every layman should have in his/her bag of tricks.

Again, I mean you no disrespect, we are all here for a reason, mine isn't to put up with or listen to BS.


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I look forward to the info you will be passing along.  

Regards

Hi Erfinder,

here are the details on the copper foil tape coil.

Each copper foil tape layers (x2) are 1"1/4 wide by 126" long.
The core is a ferrite stick 0.16" x 0.47" x 2.38"
The two insulated copper foil tape layers can make 50 turns on the core.
The Parallel Inductance of each layer is 92uH and Capacitance is 65nF
The Inductance when the layers are connected in Series is 3027uH and the Capacitance is 12nF

Hope this answers most of the details needed.

Regards

Luc
   
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Thanks wattsup for all the good information.

So with my existing setup are we all in favor of just rotating on side by 90 degrees as being the best time spent?

Thanks for sharing

Luc
   
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Hi Vladimir,

please redo your test but remove the core and adjust so the output is the same and post your new results.

Thanks

Luc
   
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Hi Luc,
I know where you are going with this...seen that kind of question many times... ;)
I never look at it like that when i'm using cores in my coils...because i'm comparing it to a conventional generator which also has a core...

I'm quite sure you don't know where I'm going with this based on your reply.

You cannot use a bolt (solid metal core) and say it compares to a conventional generator core. Why?... I think you should know the answer this by now...and if you know, then it is this very effect that causes your AUL.
Remove your core and you will find no AUL...why is this?... it's not because the magnet flux cannot get through your coil, because it still can but your output will be lower but your input will also be much lower and your RPM much higher. If you did the math of in and out watts without bolt and with bolt you will find there are watts you cannot recover when your bolt is there. So what is the benefit of AUL if it costs you more watts then no bolt?
You could replace your bolt with high quality Toroid steel laminations, or an Iron Powder core or a Ferrite core and you will see that there would be next to not difference to the prime mover input in watts if these kind of cores are there compared to no core. However, you will not have any AUL like your bolt gave you.
I know this because I've worked on this for a long time and tested all these cores many times. Everyone thinks their coil effect or generator is different but sorry to say it's all the same, if there are cores involved. Even the Ramadan generator is the same effect.
If anyone can demonstrate AUL with Air Core Coils, I will be the most interested.

Please understand that I'm not criticizing you here, just trying to help you understand what this effect is about and I've practically given you the answers. However, if you cannot understand it I will explain it and share even more.

Regards

Luc



   
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If anyone can demonstrate AUL with Air Core Coils, I will be the most interested.


Regards

Luc

I realize that this post wasn't directed at me, however owing to the comment or better stated, "indirect" request/challenge, I felt the need to chime in. 

Anyone can demonstrate acceleration under load using air cores, at a low frequency.  One simply needs to raise the voltage of the generator.  When the output voltage of the generator is raised to a voltage which is higher than that which the generator is capable of producing itself, the generator coil becomes a motor coil, producing torque in the direction of rotation.  I know this because this is the very principle on which motors are based, I know this because I have worked with this for some time, and where you to look into my bag of tricks you would find that 90 percent of all of my machines are air core devices. 

I don't care about numbers, I don't care about efficiency.  You make a really big deal about numbers and to me that is a distraction.  If we spent more time on chasing down the cause of the things we want we would be further than we are now.  With cause in our pocket, and effect under our complete control.......numbers then become the topic.


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Anyone can demonstrate acceleration under load using air cores, at a low frequency.  One simply needs to raise the voltage of the generator.  When the output voltage of the generator is raised to a voltage which is higher than that which the generator is capable of producing itself, the generator coil becomes a motor coil, producing torque in the direction of rotation.

Anyone can demonstrate this?... the only way I could do this is, at a specific timing to pulse a higher voltage then the gen coil is producing. However, I don't see the benefit of doing this, so maybe you can shed some light on this or show us how it's done if it's not how I described.

I don't care about numbers, I don't care about efficiency.  You make a really big deal about numbers and to me that is a distraction.  If we spent more time on chasing down the cause of the things we want we would be further than we are now.

Well, maybe you're at the point where you understand what you want and have no need to measure anything since you're looking for a specific effect. I'm not there yet and will need to measure to better understand what does what.

As you know there's a lot of BS in this stuff, so lets get the real show going.

Regards

Luc
« Last Edit: 2015-02-09, 18:59:38 by gotoluc »
   
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Anyone can demonstrate this?... the only way I could do this is, at a specific timing to pulse a higher
voltage then the gen coil is producing.

Yep, anyone can demonstrate the "effect" using air core coils.  How you go about it is your business, there is no specific method, I gave a vague, incomplete description of how I do it, how you do it is how you do it.

However, I don't see the benefit of doing this, so maybe you can shed some light on this or show us how it's done if it's not how I described.

That's the problem isn't it?  "You don't see the benefit in doing this....."  You come up with an idea, and shoot it down before you even consider it and test it out?!  I don't think I will shed any light nor show you how I do it.  I think you should have a little more faith in yourself, your abilities, and those gut feelings you get.  Does this, my refusal to be more forth coming make me full of it?  I certainly hope not. You owe it to yourself to test out that idea that you don't see the benefit of doing, demonstrate it not working.

Well, maybe you're at the point where you understand what you want and have no need to measure anything since you're looking for a specific effect. I'm not there yet and will need to measure to better understand what does what.

What I am looking for doesn't require that I play around with numbers, it's as simple as that.  If you require numbers, more power to you, this discussion ends before it can start because I am not going to participate in an exchange where numbers, your numbers, dictate the direction of the discussion. 

As you know there's a lot of BS in this stuff, so lets get the real show going.
Regards
Luc

I don't know that, what I do know is that there are many different opinions regarding this stuff.  I prefer the neutral position, I don't support those who believe in the idea, nor do I support those who are against it.  I will make a reference from time to time, but I always include a clause that I don't necessarily agree with all that is being stated.

The real show as you put it starts when you get it started.  What I wanted to share with the community, I shared.  Folks don't gather to shoot the shit anymore, they gather to take turns shooting the messenger.  That being said, do your worst, or best.  Regardless of the outcome, it won't change how I think or what I see on my bench.


Regards
   
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