Some "New" Observations

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Author Topic: Some "New" Observations (Read 290381 times)

ion	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #225 on: 2014-10-09, 15:01:43 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	It is my belief SM is referring to a mechanical kick, in other words a very small, measurable, but high speed displacement or movement of the wire from it's rest position. I believe he was not referring to any form of BEMF or discharge of inductance of the wire. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Grumpy	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #226 on: 2014-10-09, 15:14:51 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3941 tExB=qr	SM calls it "resonating", it may not be an actual resonant frequency in the conventional sense: The multiple frequencies traveling around the coils are of too high a frequency to provide for any motive effort. They are only a means to achieve an end. The multiple frequencies begin to feed themselves and the multiple kicks become a combined big kick. I call it resonating. That is why if you notice in the video tapes that it takes just a few seconds for the coil to begin to function at maximum effort. You see, one little kick amounts to nothing. However imagine if you had hundreds of thousands of little kicks combining into one big current kick . . . He refers several times to making thousands of individual kicks, and that these combine into one big kick.

Allcanadian	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #227 on: 2014-10-09, 17:36:55 »
Hero Member Posts: 2625	@Grumpy Quote The very FIRST example I gave you was that; It is common scientific knowledge that if you have a piece of wire and first run electricity through it you will have a small kick when first energized. The kick is universally attributed to the earth's magnetic field. OK the point is; YOU CAN GET SOME ENERGY OUT OF THE EARTH! Next point; YOU CAN DO SOMETHING VERY SIMPLE WITH A WIRE TO SHOW THIS. Next point; YOU CAN SEE THAT YOU CAN GET MORE OUT OF A PIECE OF WIRE THEN YOU PUT IN TO IT. Thanks for the reminder grumpy. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

Grumpy	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #228 on: 2014-10-09, 18:22:35 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3941 tExB=qr	Peter, If you have your delay device available that you used to see the compressed pulse, can you apply this to a bifilar coil around a magnet? Spherics claimed that SM discovered the effect this way.

poynt99	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #229 on: 2014-10-09, 19:12:07 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3205 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: ION on 2014-10-09, 15:01:43 It is my belief SM is referring to a mechanical kick, in other words a very small, measurable, but high speed displacement or movement of the wire from it's rest position. I believe he was not referring to any form of BEMF or discharge of inductance of the wire. I agree, however he muddies the waters by also saying this: Quote In one of the RCA engineering manuals I read that it has been measured in a wire that there exists a slight increase in current when first electrons are caused to flow in it. This was explained because the earth's magnetic field exerted some influence on the wire and the electron flow inside it. So to me he is saying that the kick is the physical movement of the wire due to the applied voltage and ever-present earth's magnetic field, AND that the current is 1.000001A at the instant of electron flow, vs. 1.000000A if the earth's field was not present (for eg.). Doesn't the extra current still come from the applied voltage source?

forest	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #230 on: 2014-10-09, 20:23:44 »
Sr. Member Posts: 462	Don't you think you are too "deep" instead of trying to be clear and simple Let's make it simpler for you : what is that "thing" that break vacuum tube filament after many "restarts" ? Is that heat ? Is that current ? Is that air ? What is that ? P.S. A little more helpful tip : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GITb6rzpTWM As I told you everybody , including renown scientists ,with many academic degrees before their names are simply foaming at the mouth with their projects, instead to focus on important topics.

Grumpy	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #231 on: 2014-10-09, 20:27:18 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3941 tExB=qr	I think the repeated references to "starting current and stopping in the space of a magnetic field" were largely misinterpreted. As I have said several times, pulse HV into a conductor near a magnet and see for yourself. Comments by SM on TAO's references to Tesla's Magnifier: TAO: So, based on those things, lets look at the Mark device. Lets say Steven put one big stout cable around or in the rings,and all around these he had many many windings. Now, if Steven put into that stout cable a current and before the current could get to the end of the wire, he stopped it's flow abruptly, then perpendicular radiations (the KICKS), the same Tesla observed, would appear and spread from this stout cable, this would cause Tesla'a copper charging effect, which would hit all the other wires in Steven's coils. Now, if Steven wired the coils right and stopped the discharge of the current through the coils he would be able to extract a lot of extra energy from the tap points on the coils. This is basically how Tesla's magnifying transmitter works. Capacitors discharged ABRUPTLY into a wire, then the current flow is stopped ABRUPTLY before the current makes it to the end of the wire, and this KICK comes out of the wires perpendicularly. This KICK would then charge copper with electrons(hot electricity) or their opposites(cold electricity). It just depends on how you setup the device. So, I would say that Steven's KICKS have a direct relationship to Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter, its REAL operation.< SM's remarks: So Lindsay, this guy definitely has the secret. I do not know if he will be able to duplicate power generation, but he does have the secret. Do you think he knows it? The only part he doesn't have any idea about is that by starting the oscillation you cause the current to flow in the collector which causes the magnification of the process within the collector which will ultimately produce the greater voltage and power in usable amounts during operation.

Peterae	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #232 on: 2014-10-09, 21:51:04 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	Quote We are just talking about a straight piece of wire, some electrons and a method of measuring what comes out of it. Quote I even gave you some easy to obtain references to this phenomenon in a few technical journals. Did anyone look for these journals? Did anyone look in basic scientific publications to see any of this information? Did anyone get some sensitive measuring equipment and do this experiment? Must be too simple and beneath the dignity of those on the web. Some people just sit back and say, Do we have these references to look up? Quote You know it is common knowledge in the electron tube world that aside from the fact that a cold filament conducts more electricity then when hot, one of the things that destroys the filament in electron tubes for that matter is this kick when you first turn on the juice. The kick is there wether the filament is hot or cold.The kick helps destroy the filament and cathodes integrity. The kick is there hot or cold, in other words it's not related to the current that flows in the filament. The tug on the filament is not a direct result of the electron flow in the filament, it's a consequence of the earths magnetic field, in other words the energy that tugs the filament does not come from the electron flow in the filament, and therefore we did something to the filament that caused the earths magnetic field to tug at it, obviously for this to be OU we used less energy in doing so. Guys what we need to do is find the maths to work out how much current needs to flow in the filament to get a certain amount of force that could tug the filament against the weak earths mag field, i am guessing it will be way too much than our current flowing in the filament, this will prove we have OU and this should be easy to do F=IxLxB F = 6Ampsx6mm x 65uT F = 0.00000234 N

poynt99	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #233 on: 2014-10-09, 22:12:14 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3205 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: Peterae on 2014-10-09, 21:51:04 The kick is there hot or cold, in other words it's not related to the current that flows in the filament. The tug on the filament is not a direct result of the electron flow in the filament, it's a consequence of the earths magnetic field, in other words the energy that tugs the filament does not come from the electron flow in the filament, and therefore we did something to the filament that caused the earths magnetic field to tug at it, obviously for this to be OU we used less energy in doing so. Guys, the kick can only be associated with and resulting from current in the filament.

Peterae	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #234 on: 2014-10-09, 22:32:42 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	I think we need to try to understand how large a current needs to be flowing in that filament to create such a tug against the earths mag field, surely this should not be happening with such a small filament and a lowish current of 3 amps. I managed to get very thin wires flapping around a ceramic magnet, by double pulsing current in the wire, but the magnets were large and 1000's of times stronger than the earths field, and even then the wire movement was small, i did a video of the Agentgates coil somewhere.

poynt99	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #235 on: 2014-10-10, 00:50:47 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3205 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	It's about two things; 1) the intensity of the current, and 2) how quickly the current builds in the wire You can have a very small current that builds very quickly, resulting in the same physical excursion as a much larger but slower building current. So it's not just about how much current there is, it's equally about how quickly the current is building.

Peterae	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #236 on: 2014-10-10, 06:34:01 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	yes i thought that would be the case regarding how quickly the current builds in the wire, but this is all calculable is it not.

forest	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #237 on: 2014-10-10, 07:09:42 »
Sr. Member Posts: 462	If that would be about the current then it would be hopeless. It's about the amount of electrons in some very rare situation Earth magnetic field is not weak, don't dare to think such way - re-read SM posts.

TinMan	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #238 on: 2014-10-10, 10:14:06 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4603	Quote from: poynt99 on 2014-10-10, 00:50:47 It's about two things; 1) the intensity of the current, and 2) how quickly the current builds in the wire You can have a very small current that builds very quickly, resulting in the same physical excursion as a much larger but slower building current. So it's not just about how much current there is, it's equally about how quickly the current is building. I would say the fastest way to build a current in a wire is via a spark gap setup. I have built a couple of lifters in my time using a flyback transformer from old CRT's. You could clearly see the thin wire above the foil skirt vibrate from side to side,but not up and down?.Looking side on to the wire,it looked just like a thin wire,but looking from top down,it looked about 6mm wide. As the craft was a triangle shape,it could have been the magnetic field around the wire that was interacting with itself(the two wires 120* adjacent). --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Smudge	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #239 on: 2014-10-10, 15:23:12 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1856	Quote from: forest on 2014-10-10, 07:09:42 If that would be about the current then it would be hopeless. It's about the amount of electrons in some very rare situation Earth magnetic field is not weak, don't dare to think such way - re-read SM posts. The Earth's magnetic field can be visualized as coming from a magnetic dipole somewhere near the center of the earth. Its dipole moment m is 8.24x10^22 amp meters squared. That is a huge dipole. The scalar potential at the surface, taking the radius r to be 6.37x10^6 meters is given by mcos(theta)/(4pir^2) where theta is measured from the geomagnetic S pole. Thus at the geomagnetic N and S poles the scalar potential magnitude is approx 6x10^8 amps, reducing to zero at the equator. So although the magnetic H field (the gradient of the scalar potential) is quite weak, the actual scalar potentials away from the equator can be huge. The vector potential A is given by munoughtmsin(theta)/(4pi*r^2) and is 200 Weber/meter at the equator, reducing to zero at the poles. The A field runs east-west forming circles of constant latitude. 200 Weber/meter is a huge value, something you might get on the surface of a huge 1 Tesla bar magnet that is 800m in diameter. So there must be two possibilities that SM used in his device, one is making use of the scalar potential, something I have already proposed. That theory says that magnetic poles, if they are moving within a scalar magnetic potential, will exhibit an inertia effect where their acceleration can summon up forces from that scalar potential. This fits well with SM’s device if he uses ferromagnetic wires in the form of hoops, and his drive coils induce magnetic poles moving around those hoops. Then the flexible hoops will endure mechanical vibration. The alternative explanation uses the Earth’s vector magnetic A field, and involves electrons accelerating within that field. There is the possibility that such electrons will endure a force due to acceleration in the A field, and that fits well with his observations on inrush of current in filaments when they are switched on. Smudge

Grumpy	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #240 on: 2014-10-11, 05:17:14 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3941 tExB=qr	yeah, except it runs with gain..

Peterae	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #241 on: 2014-10-11, 08:29:18 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	Quote So there must be two possibilities that SM used in his device, one is making use of the scalar potential, something I have already proposed. Smudge What is causing the valve filament to jerk, have you ever seen it, and would the inrush current be enough to explain the jerk.

Smudge	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #242 on: 2014-10-11, 12:09:24 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1856	Quote from: Peterae on 2014-10-11, 08:29:18 Smudge What is causing the valve filament to jerk, have you ever seen it, and would the inrush current be enough to explain the jerk. Although I was brought up on valve (vacuum tube) technology (can't get to grips with these new-fangled transistor thingies ) I have never witnessed the filament jerk. But there are many different types of filament. Some of the early tubes did not use cathodes, they used the direct electron emission from the hot filament and that could have many forms from a straight wire to a zig-zag formation. Most people seem to believe the jerk is simply current flow in the earth's magnetic field creating a sideways force, but SM says that is not so. If there is any credence to the possibility that electron acceleration within the earth's magnetic vector potential field can create a force, it would be longitudinal along the acceleration direction, i.e. along the wire during the inrush of current. That could create a tension along the wire so maybe the kick is a combination of the two effects, (a) the increasing value of sideways force from the increasing current flow in the earth's B field and (b) the tension created by the same inrush of current (involving electron acceleration) in the earth's A field. And perhaps those two effects would break the filament. Just speculation on my part. I can believe that SM started out with the intention of using that known kick to extract energy from the physical movement, and by a series of experiments found he could get more and more under the belief that he was still using that same basic effect. But I can also see the possibility that he unwittingly brought in other effects and the final version does not use that original phenomenon. I am very taken with the possibility that magnetic poles moving around a circle at enormous RPM (which his geometry could produce) might endure inertial forces due to their movement in the earth's scalar magnetic field, and that creates the mechanical movement, but in SM's mind it was still linked to the old kick phenomenon. Smudge

poynt99	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #243 on: 2014-10-11, 14:10:37 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3205 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Most of the time you are not going to see filaments move, but the physical tug generated on them is there every time power is applied. The evidence of this failure mode is clear when they finally do break. The directly-heated cathode type tubes don't have this issue. btw, all tubes have cathodes, even the early ones. The early tubes didn't have separate filaments because the cathode was directly heated. « Last Edit: 2014-10-11, 14:55:29 by poynt99 »

poynt99	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #244 on: 2014-10-11, 14:44:03 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3205 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Here's something related to filament failure in a datasheet for the popular KT66 beam tetrode (audio amplifier tube). The manufacturer conveys that the life expectancy of the tube is dependent on how many times the tube is switched on in a day. ------------------------ Some "New" Observations Filament_failure_warning.png (15.75 kB, 911x208 - viewed 762 times.)

poynt99	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #245 on: 2014-10-11, 14:53:15 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3205 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Since vacuum tubes came into the discussion here, this is quite interesting. I'm looking forward to these going commercial.

Smudge	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #246 on: 2014-10-11, 15:10:50 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1856	Quote from: poynt99 on 2014-10-11, 14:10:37 btw, all tubes have cathodes, even the early ones. The early tubes didn't have separate filaments because the cathode was directly heated. I think maybe I go back much further than you do (I am 80 years young) and as a child I played with crystal sets and old radios that my dad used to get from junk shops. And I do remember early tubes having no cathode. Wikipedia says "Vacuum tubes mostly rely on thermionic emission of electrons from a hot filament or a cathode heated by the filament". So I stand by my statement. But maybe this is just semantics on the word "cathode" since the hot filament is the cathode. Smudge

forest	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #247 on: 2014-10-11, 15:29:20 »
Sr. Member Posts: 462	I think it is important to remember how SM pointed to radiant effect, Electrons forced to go outside of wire by some force and that force can act only before current is established. Come on, you have to find it interesting.... I think there is some huge impact effect hidden here from our point of view.

poynt99	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #248 on: 2014-10-11, 15:37:09 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3205 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: Smudge on 2014-10-11, 15:10:50 I think maybe I go back much further than you do (I am 80 years young) and as a child I played with crystal sets and old radios that my dad used to get from junk shops. And I do remember early tubes having no cathode. Wikipedia says "Vacuum tubes mostly rely on thermionic emission of electrons from a hot filament or a cathode heated by the filament". So I stand by my statement. But maybe this is just semantics on the word "cathode" since the hot filament is the cathode. Smudge It comes down to semantics I suppose, but technically speaking, all tubes have cathodes. It just comes down to whether the cathode is directly or indirectly heated.

poynt99	Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #249 on: 2014-10-11, 15:46:05 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3205 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Here is the spec sheet for a 2A3 from the RC-12 tube manual (1934). It is a directly heated cathode type and referred to as a "cathode which is composed of a large number of filaments". ------------------------ Some "New" Observations Cathode_Filament.png (118.5 kB, 776x413 - viewed 1234 times.)

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