Some musings on Magnetization

Author Topic: Some musings on Magnetization (Read 5029 times)

Smudge	Some musings on Magnetization « on: 2015-08-09, 11:59:51 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2434	While searching my computer for something I wrote previously I came across something I wrote in 2003. I have just given it a title and publish it here for anyone who is interested. Smudge Some musings on magnetization.pdf (20.05 kB - downloaded 182 times.)

ion

Re: Some musings on Magnetization « Reply #1 on: 2015-08-09, 13:07:31 »

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It's turtles all the way down

Quote from: Smudge on 2015-08-09, 11:59:51

While searching my computer for something I wrote previously I came across something I wrote in 2003. I have just given it a title and publish it here for anyone who is interested.

Smudge

Interesting point of view on the inner world of magnetization , inter atomic space and magnetic dipoles. Seems this paper at the end sheds some light on the possible operation of the TPU, and it's use of a ferrous wire that needed to be pre-polarized magnetically.

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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Verpies

Re: Some musings on Magnetization « Reply #2 on: 2015-08-09, 16:36:35 »

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The Larmor frequency and cyclotron frequency are not equal in soft Iron.
The Larmor frequency of Iron nuclei in soft Iron is 45.5MHz and is largely independent of the external field up to 0.6T.
The electron cyclotron frequency varies wildly between 0 - 0.6T.

Certainly there are strong fields inside bulk Iron. For example to get Iron nuclei in Ferric Chloride to precess at 45.5MHz ...a huge 33T external field would be required.

Smudge

Re: Some musings on Magnetization « Reply #3 on: 2015-08-09, 17:22:40 »

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I'm not talking about nuclei NMR but electron ESR where in a given field the Larmor frequency and the cyclotron frequency are the same. And IMO although electrons at different positions in iron will have different Larmor frequencies (hence the spread because the field is not uniform) electrons at that same locality will have the Larmor-cyclotron equivalence. So there could be the conduction electron pumping effect present. This is based on electron gas considerations where there are no nuclei.

Smudge

Verpies

Re: Some musings on Magnetization « Reply #4 on: 2015-08-09, 18:54:08 »

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From my experience ESR is weak phenomenon and a troublesome one because it requires high microwave frequencies.

If the 33T internal field of bulk iron, that causes the nuclear precession, also affects the electron Larmor frequency, then this frequency will be so high in the GHz range that we will not be able to deal with it experimentally.

I like your analysis of interaction of the conduction current waveform with the magnetization waveform - it reminds me of the Mayer-Mace device in which AC electric current is passed through an iron rod that is also magnetized by external windings driven by the same waveform.

Smudge

Re: Some musings on Magnetization « Reply #5 on: 2015-08-09, 19:02:09 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2015-08-09, 18:54:08

From my experience ESR is weak and troublesome because it requires high microwave frequencies.

If the 33T internal field of bulk iron, that causes the nuclear precession, also affects the electron Larmor frequency, then this frequency will be so high in the GHz range that we will not be able to deal with it experimentally.

But we don't deal with it experimentally. We don't see that high GHz, we only observe the external effect of that internal game and that external effect could be DC.

Quote

I like your analysis of interaction of the conduction current waveform with the magnetization waveform - it reminds me of the Mayer-Mace device in which AC electric current is passed through an iron rod that is also magnetized by external windings driven by the same waveform.

The Coler stromerzeuger also uses current through iron rods inside coils.

Smudge

Verpies	Re: Some musings on Magnetization « Reply #6 on: 2015-08-09, 23:34:44 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4858	Quote from: Smudge on 2015-08-09, 19:02:09 The Coler stromerzeuger also uses current through iron rods inside coils. Where can I find a good description of it?

Farmhand

Re: Some musings on Magnetization « Reply #7 on: 2015-08-10, 02:32:54 »

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This link shows the arrangement down the page a bit but it's in German I think.
http://www.borderlands.de/energy.coler.php3

And this link might just be a translated version of the first.
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/coler/

I looked at the The "Stromerzeuger" drawings and read the descriptions on this page but I can't say that I "get" the working principal.

eg.

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He was then questioned about the theory of the devices, but he was unable to give any coherent suggestions as to the mechanism. He sated that his researches (apparently conducted with crude apparatus) into the nature of magnetism had lead him to conclude that ferro-magnetism was an oscillating phenomenon, of frequency about 180 kilohertz. This oscillation took place in the magnetic circuit of the apparatus, and induced in the electrical circuit oscillations the frequency which of course depended on the values of the components used. These two phenomena interacted, and gradually built up the tension. As the mechanism was not understood the proper arrangement could not be worked out, but had to be arrived at by experiment, and the apparatus had to be brought into adjustment by similar trial and error methods. Coler stated that the strength of the magnets did not decrease during the use of the apparatus; and suggested that he was tapping a new sort of energy hitherto unknown "Raumenergie" (Space-energy). Coler gave a resume of the work done by Dr. Frohlich for the O.K.W., and produced a copy of Frohlich’s report, written jointly with himself (translation reproduced in Appendix IV) and a report of his own (part of which is given in Appendix V).

Based on the description above on "how it might work" can we put together a schematic with component values which might act as described if the ferro-magnetism did in fact oscillate at about 180 kHz ?

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Verpies	Re: Some musings on Magnetization « Reply #8 on: 2015-08-11, 08:54:50 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4858	Quote from: Farmhand on 2015-08-10, 02:32:54 And this link might just be a translated version of the first. http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/coler/ This link does not work for me. Server not responding I can find a cached version of the text but the diagrams are absent.

T-1000	Re: Some musings on Magnetization « Reply #9 on: 2015-08-11, 10:50:22 »
Sr. Member Posts: 405	Quote from: verpies on 2015-08-11, 08:54:50 This link does not work for me. Server not responding I can find a cached version of the text but the diagrams are absent. Seems something is blocking you from that website. The google cached version should be just fine - http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vnu7yt3Fd1UJ:rimstar.org/sdenergy/coler/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Verpies	Re: Some musings on Magnetization « Reply #10 on: 2015-08-11, 11:22:52 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4858	I can see the text in the cache but not the images because the images are not cached (they are linked from rimstar.org). Today I am travelling in Ukraine. Are other people in Ukraine blocked from rimstar.org, too?

Grumage	Re: Some musings on Magnetization « Reply #11 on: 2015-08-11, 11:30:39 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 3122	Quote from: verpies on 2015-08-09, 23:34:44 Where can I find a good description of it? Dear Verpies. Try this link instead. http://www.rexresearch.com/coler/coler2.htm Cheers Grum. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

ion	Re: Some musings on Magnetization « Reply #12 on: 2015-08-11, 13:38:13 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 4127 It's turtles all the way down	Also the CHAVA group did a lot of research on this and has good downloadable info, Smudge was involved I believe. There is a lot of info on this forum somewhere. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

wings	Re: Some musings on Magnetization « Reply #13 on: 2015-08-11, 14:13:53 »
Full Member Posts: 118	http://chavascience.com/pdf/the-inventions-of-Willi-von-Unrum-and-Hans-Coler.pdf http://chavascience.com/index.php/en/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Fr%C3%B6hlich « Last Edit: 2015-08-11, 22:01:50 by wings »