Help Needed from the Old School Boys

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TinMan

Help Needed from the Old School Boys « on: 2015-09-05, 14:06:28 »

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In the video below,you will see the old lighting plant i picked up today 5/9/15.
It has an old Dunlite 4 poll generator with a separate exciter unit to fire up the generator. What i would like to know is-can i get rid of the old exciter unit by installing a couple of strong neo's in the rotor,place a cap(value yet to be determined) across the exciter winding's as they do in later model generators,and get the generator to fire up that way?.

Any help would be good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edwI_kcRgE0

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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

muDped

Re: Help Needed from the Old School Boys « Reply #1 on: 2015-09-05, 19:32:51 »

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Hmmm. Wonderful project!

I'd be tempted to wire it to operate in the same fashion
as the automotive alternator does: Rectify the AC output
and feed some portion of it back to the field as regulated
DC to set the AC output level.

Or, it might even be wired to operate as an induction
generator.

In either of these cases a brief application of DC to the
field would initiate generator action if the residual magnetism
in the device was insufficient to get it going.

I have the feeling that you're going to have a lot of fun
experimenting with that old beauty! It certainly is fascinating
to see how things were done in the "old days." Really good
video TinMan.

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For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

Grumage

Re: Help Needed from the Old School Boys « Reply #2 on: 2015-09-05, 20:48:48 »

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Dear Brad.

Old school ??

Your Lister LT 1 ( Little Tiger ) was first produced in 1974. A veritable youngster compared to some of my 100 year old Lister Petrol and Petrol Paraffin engines !!

They are still being produced today " We make our way by the way we're made " was an old advertising slogan, proving just how well they were !!

As regards the " Start O Matic " plant there will be collectors very interested in that. It worked very well having a standing voltage sitting on the home electrical system and sensing when a light was switched on, started the engine automatically. The engine then ran continuously until the last light was turned off.

I have to agree with muDped, just use the 24 V DC output from the Alternator. If it is a genuine " Star O Matic " unit it will have an AC output and a commutated rotor for starting and charging the batteries.

Keep up with the great work.

Cheers Grum.

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Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

TinMan

Re: Help Needed from the Old School Boys « Reply #3 on: 2015-09-06, 02:22:28 »

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Quote from: Grumage on 2015-09-05, 20:48:48

Dear Brad.

Your Lister LT 1 ( Little Tiger ) was first produced in 1974. A veritable youngster compared to some of my 100 year old Lister Petrol and Petrol Paraffin engines !!

They are still being produced today " We make our way by the way we're made " was an old advertising slogan, proving just how well they were !!

As regards the " Start O Matic " plant there will be collectors very interested in that. It worked very well having a standing voltage sitting on the home electrical system and sensing when a light was switched on, started the engine automatically. The engine then ran continuously until the last light was turned off.

I have to agree with muDped, just use the 24 V DC output from the Alternator. If it is a genuine " Star O Matic " unit it will have an AC output and a commutated rotor for starting and charging the batteries.

Keep up with the great work.

Cheers Grum.

Quote

Old school ??

Well it's nearly as old as me

,so i was around 4yo when this came out,and i would think that the control setup is much older than that in design.

So the generator is a dyno motor type deal. So the thicker wires should be the 12 volt side,and the thin wires i thought were the exciter winding's are actually the 240v output?. Will have to pull the brush cap of the generator and have a look and see if we have a commutator or slip ring's at the brushes.

Thanks guys

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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan

Re: Help Needed from the Old School Boys « Reply #4 on: 2015-09-06, 03:20:42 »

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OK,i took the brush dust cover of the generator,and no commutator-just the two slip ring's.
So I'm beginning to think that the two boxes are some sort of DC to AC inverter,where the DC from the battery is converted to AC,and the generator then becomes an induction motor as sorts to start the engine. Once the engine is running ,the inverter then switches ,and becomes the charge unit for the battery,and also you get your AC output from the generator.

It would be nice to get this system working again,so as the motor only starts and runs when a load is switched on.
In saying that,some of the components don't look so good in there any more.

I also placed my DMM on the outputs of the generator,and by spinning it by hand,i could get around 3 to 4 volts AC on the DMM. So it might fire it self up without the two boxes of goodies

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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

muDped

Re: Help Needed from the Old School Boys « Reply #5 on: 2015-09-06, 04:21:13 »

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Would Dunlite be able to offer any technical data on
your older model TinMan?

Their smallest diesel generator currently offered is
apparently a little bigger than the one you're working
with, but it sure looks good.

Looks like what you've got there may have
considerable value.

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For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

TinMan

Re: Help Needed from the Old School Boys « Reply #6 on: 2015-09-06, 10:54:39 »

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Quote from: muDped on 2015-09-06, 04:21:13

Would Dunlite be able to offer any technical data on
your older model TinMan?

Their smallest diesel generator currently offered is
apparently a little bigger than the one you're working
with, but it sure looks good.

Looks like what you've got there may have
considerable value.

cheers for the link muDped.

Well i have the motor running,and it runs very well on bio diesel.
I'm leaning toward using my 12 volt 160amp alternator instead of the original generator. This way i can use my large battery bank,and also have the solar hooked to it. Then all that is needed is a 3 kilowatt inverter. By using the batteries,i can be drawing power at night without the engine running,or the solar working.

. I would also be able to run the engine at a lower RPM-around 900RPM-->even lower if i gear the alternator right up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olPgu1CPqp0

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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Grumage

Re: Help Needed from the Old School Boys « Reply #7 on: 2015-09-06, 11:43:08 »

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Dear Brad.

I had a feeling the Alternator wasn't part of the original " Start-O-Matic " system! The control box might fetch you a few " Shillings " on eBay however.

If I was going to go in your direction I would be looking for an Horizontal Diesel engine, like the one you were playing with a week ago. Reason? A lot less ground vibration. Vertical engines, particularly single potters, really do punch the plinth!! It's ok if you're in the middle of nowhere but I could see some opposition in an urban area.

An old friend of mine who had an engine reconditioning business used an old Blackstone 20 HP for his CHP system and cost him pennies to run. His was the only house in the area who had all the windows open during the winter months!!

Cheers Grum.

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Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Chet K	Re: Help Needed from the Old School Boys « Reply #8 on: 2015-09-06, 16:44:21 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4750	And here we have a bit of experience from Johan Oostrom and his 50% water fuel 35 KW system [I believe he might also be adding the HHO for best result. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF_3rfuT46g

Grumage

Re: Help Needed from the Old School Boys « Reply #9 on: 2015-09-06, 20:26:14 »

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Posts: 3122

Dear Chet.

I just found a You Tube of a similar Blackstone that my old friend Raymond used at his home near Bwlchgwyn !!

I had completely forgotten it was a " Lamp Start " ie. Pre Diesel full cold compression ignition, but still works on compression ignition due to the pre heating of the combustion space or " Bulb " as it is commonly known. Hence the blowlamp at the front.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCm49vluPTE

It's a pity the presenter had such a noisy air compressor for the air start as the engine is virtually noiseless once running !!

Cheers Grum.

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Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!