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Author Topic: Graham Gunderson Energy conference High COP demonstration  (Read 158371 times)
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Quote
6. He would like to move into small manufacturing by selling his circuit boards and other subsystems for general OU work, along with white papers and plans. Maybe some assembled modules.

Worthy goals - strongly supported!  That would lead to rapid dissemination of the new information, which is great IMO.

This approach - along with one or several good conferences to make some big money quite fast for Graham (nothing wrong with that!) would be better, IMHO, than the patent route which we discussed before.

I would be glad to help in the kit and conference approach - strongly think this would help Graham with funds quickly.
   
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It will be interesting to explore the options here and see if things can move in a direction which will give Graham what he wants and the world what it needs !

 O0

   
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It will be interesting to explore the options here and see if things can move in a direction which will give Graham what he wants and the world what it needs !

 O0

Well said, Chet.  You have a good heart.
   
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PhysicsProf
This house is filled with Plenty of good hearts  O0

And it seems we have some tentative financial commitments,

its been a while since we went down this road for an inventor [raising funds thru Angel donors]

Open source Of course !
   
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In the OU forum it is said that the white dots on the magnets do not represent the polarity but something to do with the way they are put into a mould, (sorry mold :-[).  The magnet field runs around the top loop of magnets, so there is indeed a crossed field in the main core.  Maybe precession does play its part.

Smudge
   
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Just an Update
Member Spokane1 will be joining the discussion here too.  [Peter will be adding him when he gets the time.

   
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This might explain some things about Graham's transformer, see attached pdf.

Smudge
   
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Gentlemen,

I was over at Grahams shop last Monday (after I had brought over some Panda Express Chow). I was dropping off a roll of Litz wire that I had so that Graham could try some ideas with his transformer to reduce the number of switching elements in the H-Bridge from four down to two. I believe he wants to go to a center tapped arrangement and make something like a Dr. Tesla's 1892 oscillator with two pancake coils with a space between them.

At the time I was there he had his conversion transformer taken apart with only one set of PM's attached. The attached photo shows how the PM's are supporting themselves with out the clamping hardware or any spacers. This should establish how the polarity has been arranged.

Last Saturday was not a good day for him since his machine failed to improve with any of his new tuning ideas. He blew a transistor in his H-Bridge and was wondering why that had happened since those FETS are rated at 1000 PIV while his measured peak voltage is only 800V.

What he did find out (that didn't make the day a complete loss) was that if he were to input energy into the output side; than the regular input signal would be reconstructed at the input side with no applied power on that end. He thought that was really something since that wave is discontinuous.

How many photos can we post on the kind of forum? Or maybe how much memory can we use?  I took 40 additional pictures of the machine while there.

There are a lot of details in this construction. You have to be about 2" away from the device with the camera to begin to see them. Without Graham's guidance I would have never seen the surface mount components from the present photos and I think I know what I'm looking at.

The tuning of this device is fragile. Graham said that during development he could hold a few Barium Magnets in his hand about 24" away, twist his hand 90 degrees and the intensity of his load lamp would vary by 40%. (my guess)

Those 18 PM's on the top of the device account for about a 20%(my guess) increase in performance - that is why they are there.  It is really strange to me to know that such small external magnetic field changes could have such a profound impact on a closed core device.

Also, Gram said that by adding a 100 pf Silver-Mica capacitor between the Source and Drain of one of the Back End FETS would completely destroy the OU effect.

Graham also showed me some two variations of some simple magnetic probes he fabricated. They were composed of a small inductor, a diode and an LED. He developed these to discover magnetic leaks. What he told me was that he found several leaks where there shouldn't be any. The main one he described and showed me (the machine was not running) was at the very bottom center (of one side) of the main core. He said that his little tester was just " going wild" when by rights all of the flux at that location should have been going through the ferrite.

The impression I get from Graham is that he wants to play with his new child. At the moment that is far more rewarding than drawing up schematics, writing reports, and answering dumb questions (which I ask a lot of). Graham presently works full time as a repair technician for a local aviation electronics company on the East side of town. Therefore time is at a premium.  If I were him I would have the same attitude. He has two sons and is planning to get married, so his plate is already fully.

I have no doubt that Graham is onto something big - but right now very fragile. I have known Graham since 2006 and his technical knowledge makes me feel like a first grader talking to a Ph.D. I can barley form what I think are meaningful questions and he takes the time to explain some complex concepts that even a first grader can understand. I have the highest regard for his candor and morel integrity. (Besides he likes Chicken Wings and Pizza)

Graham said that the lower ferrite core came from FoxCube and if I recall the part number correctly it was an HC90 (or something close to that). It is 100mm on the long side and looks to be 4" wide with 1" arms (or legs)

Graham does want to keep the part number of the other core (upper) proprietary at this time. He wants to keep something for himself (or the future owners). I would have kept a lot more than that. I would guess that Graham wants others to pay their dues before he hands over a possible age changing technology to the masses. I'm sure that who ever makes the purchase will discover what that part number is and have to contract with a core shop to make a custom batch. Graham thinks this could be done for about $2,500. I think that is a low figure.

Has anybody had any luck sourcing a set of cores? I doubt it. Never the less I'm planning to move ahead with a 5" steel laminated UI core. I know this is not the same that Graham used, but it is what E.V. Gray's team used to achieve a COP of 282 at the 7.5 kW level. So there is magic in that iron somewhere. The Gray approach was a pulsed method that used a moving spark gap to generate the 46 kHz RF. Graham's system is continuous with the PM's providing the saturation field and the RF being continuously injected.

The bid difference between the Gray system and the Gunderson system is the in the Gray system the OU was harvested as Force - Huge amounts of force in fact more force than what can be accounted for from classical magnetic repulsion.

Mark McKay, PE
   

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After much scouring, the closest cores I could find were these.  May not be the right size, but they're at least in the ballpark.

http://www.surplussales.com/inductors/FerPotC/FerPotC-5.html


It might be possible to lower the permeability artificially, possibly by heating the ferrite to a high temperature for a period of time.  Anyone have ideas on that?
« Last Edit: 2016-07-21, 01:45:43 by Reiyuki »


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Critical thinking is important, but a professional skeptic will never discover anything new.
   
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Mark
Welcome to the forum

Spokane1
Quote
How many photos can we post on the kind of forum? Or maybe how much memory can we use?  I took 40 additional pictures of the machine while there.

There are a lot of details in this construction. You have to be about 2" away from the device with the camera to begin to see them. Without Graham's guidance I would have never seen the surface mount components from the present photos and I think I know what I'm looking at.

End Quote

member Reiyuki has posted a File share link for Pics here * Note I see he posted whilst I was chiseling on the keyboard.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B0_1dJJ_ezEmUDlsNDZUYWlrbE0

* However I will get an answer to that question and see if we can get those posted .


  Graham truly is an amazing fellow for sharing all he has and we have nothing but gratitude over here for the privilege to investigate this,
and will hopefully be viewed as an asset to him on this newfound path with "his" new baby Device .

truly a privilege indeed !!
* To Note
 Myself and others are actively investigating the Financial options so this can be completely open sourced and Graham can have his needs met
and the world can too .

respectfully

Chet K

« Last Edit: 2016-07-21, 10:30:30 by Chet K »
   
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It's turtles all the way down
I hope Gunderson has the ability to read Smudge's latest thoughts on the operation of his (Gunderson's) "transformer" as it contains a viable explanation for the source of excess energy, and may aid Graham in fine tuning his device.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Smudge's PDF's on this Topic have been placed at a few other forums Too.[with his consent]

And I believe they can be read here by passers by .

I know Mark M [Spokane1] has Noted Cyril's contributions here.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20199-energy-conference-graham-gunderson-2.html [post number 33]

Chet K



   
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Also to Note
A new builder and experimenter will be joining here shortly
Ben K4zep [Always Luved this mans work]

may take a while as I'm on the road today.

respectfully

Chet K
   

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If what is claimed is true, and can be repeated, and measured by independent qualified engineers  , getting the money is not a problem i think.

I think we, peoples who take their times to research in this subject, and love it, will be able to collect that amount of money in no time, if this is verified, and work as claimed.



---------------------------
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery
   
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I hope Gunderson has the ability to read Smudge's latest thoughts on the operation of his (Gunderson's) "transformer" as it contains a viable explanation for the source of excess energy, and may aid Graham in fine tuning his device.

Dear Ion,

I'm afraid that Graham has sworn off theories for awhile. I attempted to explain to him my concept of the McFreey idea and he didn't want to here it, I don't blame him. Why try to wrap your mind around a new theory when you are already observing more than one phenomena not addressed by classical theory. Theory has its place and has served us well, but in this case he needs to collect more observations and measurements before someone can compose something that will lead to some better engineering judgment.

But that doesn't mean people should give up on attempting to piece together a theory of the moment that helps visualize what might be going on with the limited information available.

Spokane1
   
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The Graham Effect may be peculiar to the high perm ferrite,  Here are some more thoughts on the subject.

Smudge
   
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That's very true !  We can have a nice theory which doesn't explains facts or a simple theory matched to the experiment results. That was mentioned by Tesla.
   
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If what is claimed is true, and can be repeated, and measured by independent qualified engineers  , getting the money is not a problem i think.

Dear Chef,

Unless someone has cash money sitting on the kitchen table (or a bank draft) Graham is not currently interested in having his present setup evaluated by "independent qualified engineers" for the sake of verification alone. A serious customer will get the required verification (with their own equipment even) otherwise Graham doesn't want some 3rd party to tell him that he is suffering from "instrument error". He wants to discover that for himself - if that is the case. He wants to close the loop and completely remove all these potential instrument issues.

Money might be hard to come by for such an infant and fragile process. Heck, the inventor of the copy machine was rejected by several companies even with a crude working prototype in hand.

Spokane1
   

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Dear Chef,

Unless someone has cash money sitting on the kitchen table (or a bank draft) Graham is not currently interested in having his present setup evaluated by "independent qualified engineers" for the sake of verification alone. A serious customer will get the required verification (with their own equipment even) otherwise Graham doesn't want some 3rd party to tell him that he is suffering from "instrument error". He wants to discover that for himself - if that is the case. He wants to close the loop and completely remove all these potential instrument issues.

Money might be hard to come by for such an infant and fragile process. Heck, the inventor of the copy machine was rejected by several companies even with a crude working prototype in hand.

Spokane1

I don't see how verifying the claim by some independent engineer payed by us, a group!,  would be different, as one, payed by somebody else who want to buy it alone.  I don't understand also his intention on this sell out fast for 2 million bucks, but it's his project, so he can do what he want.

In any way, I will follow the story, quite excited to see, how it will unfold.



---------------------------
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery
   

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I don't see how verifying the claim by some independent engineer payed by us, a group!,  would be different, as one, payed by somebody else who want to buy it alone.  I don't understand also his intention on this sell out fast for 2 million bucks, but it's his project, so he can do what he want.

In any way, I will follow the story, quite excited to see, how it will unfold.

Funny that for a while, Graham WAS an independent engineer sent to verify other people's systems. ;D
We can hire him to test it!/sarcasm


---------------------------
Critical thinking is important, but a professional skeptic will never discover anything new.
   
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Posts: 79
After much scouring, the closest cores I could find were these.  May not be the right size, but they're at least in the ballpark.

http://www.surplussales.com/inductors/FerPotC/FerPotC-5.html


It might be possible to lower the permeability artificially, possibly by heating the ferrite to a high temperature for a period of time.  Anyone have ideas on that?

Dear Reiyuki,

Great Work in chasing those down.

Those certainly look like the low permittivity model in question.  I suppose you already bought them all.  Now to find the high u model.

Also, if a builder wants to be true to the original machine they will have to replicate Graham's custom Swinging choke that drives the H-Bridge. That device takes four (4) of these "U" cores and two smaller "I" cores that are about 0.75" square.

Spokane1
   
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Graham seems to make an amazing impression on the people he meets , and he is Open sourcing his work too !!
Our world needs more men Like this !

Open sourcing his work? For a mere 2 million dollars? 
   
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According to one guy on energeticforum who knows Graham and helped him set up his equipment.

Quote
As time went on the COP improved an hour later the input wattage was down to zero (with four places of accuracy) with the output still at 9.5. That is a COP of infinity, but lets say around 50.

What do you make of that?

Smudge

If the input power was 0.000 Watts, why did it still have to be connected to the power supply in order to keep running?

What do I make of that? How about "measurement error"? Is anyone willing to consider that the measurements are in error?


Yes, show me any device with electrical inputs and outputs that _truly_ produces a COP of at least 1.3 and I will show you how to self-loop it so that it does NOT need to be connected to any external power supply, once started.  If it uses "0.000 Watts input" that makes it even easier. I've stated this many times and I state it again.

Oddly enough ... not a single claimant has ever contacted me to see if I can really do it. Why do you suppose that is?



   
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Welcome to the forum, Mark! 
You noted that Graham had taken his device apart, at least partly, and noted (and thanks for your observations!):

"The tuning of this device is fragile. Graham said that during development he could hold a few Barium Magnets in his hand about 24" away, twist his hand 90 degrees and the intensity of his load lamp would vary by 40%. (my guess)

Those 18 PM's on the top of the device account for about a 20%(my guess) increase in performance - that is why they are there.  It is really strange to me to know that such small external magnetic field changes could have such a profound impact on a closed core device.

Also, Gram said that by adding a 100 pf Silver-Mica capacitor between the Source and Drain of one of the Back End FETS would completely destroy the OU effect.

Graham also showed me some two variations of some simple magnetic probes he fabricated. They were composed of a small inductor, a diode and an LED. He developed these to discover magnetic leaks. What he told me was that he found several leaks where there shouldn't be any. The main one he described and showed me (the machine was not running) was at the very bottom center (of one side) of the main core. He said that his little tester was just " going wild" when by rights all of the flux at that location should have been going through the ferrite.

The impression I get from Graham is that he wants to play with his new child."

I can understand that!
No need to respond to skeptics yet (IMHO).

One caution:  when a device exhibits OU, it seems the temptation is to play with it, take it apart, try changing this and that -- until the device has lost its "magic".  I would recommend that Graham take measurements of the device basically AS IS - and never take it apart - until he builds a second one to play with and dissect.

A working OU device that can be measured and observed is worth more than thousands of theories!  worth much more than trying to please the skeptics or answer every question being raised. 

--Prof Jones
« Last Edit: 2016-07-22, 13:32:27 by PhysicsProf »
   
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  Mark also noted,
Quote
Has anybody had any luck sourcing a set of cores? I doubt it. Never the less I'm planning to move ahead with a 5" steel laminated UI core. I know this is not the same that Graham used, but it is what E.V. Gray's team used to achieve a COP of 282 at the 7.5 kW level. So there is magic in that iron somewhere.

The Gray approach was a pulsed method that used a moving spark gap to generate the 46 kHz RF. Graham's system is continuous with the PM's providing the saturation field and the RF being continuously injected.

The bid difference between the Gray system and the Gunderson system is the in the Gray system the OU was harvested as Force - Huge amounts of force in fact more force than what can be accounted for from classical magnetic repulsion.

Mark McKay, PE


------------------------

Two things -
1.  My guess at this point is that the "magic" in Graham's device is not something in that particular core he used, that is, I would encourage replication efforts even if that particular core is not readily available.

2.  What is this device by E.V. Gray?  sounds interesting.
« Last Edit: 2016-07-22, 15:07:15 by PhysicsProf »
   
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