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Author Topic: LTPU Center Toroid Breakout  (Read 46766 times)

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Hi @GK

Saw your last youtube with thanks.
Basically you are showing the same thing but in inverse of my first ever youtube here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXgL4Wf8zrQ

Your coil was stationary and the magnet moved. In mine the magnet was stationary and the coil moved

This really spells out something speaker related like my link in my previous post.

It just lingers and lingers. I am sure the toroids are speaker magnets and SM was making speakers and had all the components at hand. It could be the toroid coils are output coils but the driving is a speaker coil under the magnet center.

Two coils wound on a toroid magnet, I have tried it. Pulsed one, got nothing on the second. It cannot work as a coupling medium. So what can it be used for? The speaker magnet can be used as a permanent bias of the copper atom nuclei in those two coils. It's like pulling an elastic band further then it should go but not enough to snap. Then you need a drive coil. The drive coil could now be a voice coil bouncing up and down and working on the inner verticals of the coils and finding the best frequency to resonance on the toroid coils.

That would be a start under a Spin Conveyance perspective of SMs device. This means the OU is only in the Toroid and it's center. He hid the center in the FTPU and showed no amp rating, only voltage. He hid it in the OPTU just for the same volts but am sure he faked the actual lighting of those two table lamps. He hid it in the STPU. He had one shown in the MTPU center on that box again hiding the underside of the center of the toroid while he could also have had 2 or 3 more hidden vertically in the outer walls while showing what seems to us as an outer vertical winding as a decoy. He showed two toroids in the LTPU center but could have had 8 more hidden in the outer walls again mounted and secured vertically. Each device also provided space to hide the required increased batteries per model.

The other possibility is that the two coils on the toroid are duds and both the drive and pickup are in the center of a speaker magnet, and if he did not put coils on that magnet just to hide its usage, it would have been too obvious. You know, speaker guy showing miracle speaker magnets. Instead, he put all this fluff around it.

In Spin Conveyance a one inch length of wire is all that is required to produce output. You can have a very complicated generator device with multiple series, parallel arrangements each producing their part of an output all coming together to the Last Inch of wire before the load. The last inch proves to us that just that one inch of wire can be induced enough conveyance to satisfy the load. The required movement may be no greater then the distance traveled by a speaker coil when it produces an AC tone or a DC chop.

Remember way back this guy called @handguy made this device called the Thingamajigger. Just a center magnet sway back and forth but never making a full rotation. His device was very efficient.

The advantage of a small physical oscillation like a moving speaker coil is special. Where a standard rotor magnet approaches a pickup then leaves it thus producing only a gradual AC rise and fall, the moving coil will produce straight DC because there is no rise or fall but only a maximum or peak point oscillation of the copper nuclei. So basically SMs TPU could simply be adding two coils to the magnet of a speaker, then build the speaker with the speaker coil and suspension. Then send a tone and measure the output of the two toroid coils. Since this would be DC the 10 toroids could be 5 series series then paralleled or any other mix. He could saw off a part of the LTPU and still keep it working but just reconnecting the loop.

I really cannot see anymore how windings in the LTPU outer ring could be used to engender a gain in coupling, it's just too way out there. Hiding the toroid devices in the rings makes more sense to me. So the job would be to build a speaker magnet toroid TPU.

I'd have to look into speaker building component suppliers to see what is out there as a trial. I would like to investigate that part since a long time and may as well do it now before the world blows up. The basic principle means magnet diameters and strengths could be an acceptable variable to size and output. He could have had three mini speaker magnets in the STPU mounted vertical. The FTPU was mounted horizontal and maybe he did  not know how to optimize the speaker coil placement and that is why it did not work upside down.

Just some ideas I am throwing out there. It would be the irony of going full circle only to arrive at the starting point where at that time it was just instinctive while today things are far more involved in how we see our effects. I basically started a new way of looking at electricity and this has helped me see so many works and builds in a different way. Explaining it has not always been the easiest task indeed.

Keep well.

wattsup


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Could the operation be similar to the old BH memory cores where a mag charge is stored then checked by some means utilising the outer cores in resonance?
It's simple enough.
   

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@WAttsup, OMG...
My medulla oblongata just took a dump.
The TPU doesnt work upside down.
He had a pair of vertically repelling magnets in a tube. This can be small or big.
A topside coil repels the magnet pushing it downward and this vibration is read.
It also thumps. At the correct speed it resonates.

I know, 8 years later and full circle.
I will build one of these little paperless speakers and give it a try over the holidays.
Should be exciting. The last video I did was the opposite of this and there shows the proof that this actuation is viable. Like, DUH. Its a speaker.


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Quote from: GiantKiller
My medulla oblongata just took a dump.
The TPU doesnt work upside down.
He had a pair of vertically repelling magnets in a tube...

And what a swell dump it was!  Now the process of
discovering the "secret" of the device is getting somewhere.

Intriguing thoughts.  But, the question remains:  Is it capable
of Real Over-Unity?   Hmmmm...

WattsUp started the ball rolling in this direction:

Quote from: WattsUp
...and that is why it did not work upside down.


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And what a swell dump it was!  Now the process of
discovering the "secret" of the device is getting somewhere.

Intriguing thoughts.  But, the question remains:  Is it capable
of Real Over-Unity?   Hmmmm...

WattsUp started the ball rolling in this direction:

This is where the Kunel patent comes in.
I was bouncing magnets back in 2006. Who would have thought?
I believe we are going to find numerous statements made in the past were spot on but disconnected.
But now let the holiday race begin:
On Dasher. On Prancer...


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Quote from: GiantKiller
I believe we are going to find numerous statements made in the past were spot on but disconnected.
But now let the holiday race begin:
On Dasher. On Prancer...

Aye, you're no doubt correct about that.  It has taken some
time for reasoning, conjecture and guessing along the way
for the "connection" to manifest.

But could there be more "secrets" that are in need of discovery?

Will more be revealed as the race gets underway?

 


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The first TPU didn't work upside down because it relied on gravity and the second field to create precession.

   
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So picture this........

SM in those days was working with speakers. One day he was assembling a woofer speaker and thought, "Hey, before I put on the final piece which is the speaker magnet, what if I wind two coils on it and see what happens.". We winds two coils on the toroidal speaker magnet, positions and secures it with a white dielectric sheet in between. He connects the speaker as usual and plays a tone, then connects a light bulb on the two toroid coil halves that he wound on the speaker magnet. The bulb starts to light up. The TPU is born. Hmmmmmmmm.

But to detract from the toroid being the main honcho, he mounts the toroid on a wire reel so the center underneath the toroid is protected from peering eyes. He winds half haphazardly the FTPU outer rings as a decoy sending the output through them, not helping or hindering anything but to show that the outer rings are the important focal point which they really are not. So simple you would laugh. Too simple and needing dressing up and still needs to run the speaker coil oscillator with a battery. The outcome is a TPU that will perform way over any possible battery could, just like he always said it did. He never said there were no batteries in his TPU. He always said no battery "alone" could do this.

This then would dispel or eliminate any further attempts to figure out useless outer rings in relation to using loops or mutual loops and miracle coupling hopes where we all have spent the last several years in checkmate. That is why when I looked at all the TPUs, the outer rings and possible coiling schemes just countered everything I know about coupling. SM did not invent anything from scratch. As any inventor will take whatever is within his grasp to work with and work out new arrangements.

When he says 1 foot or 1000 one feet lengths of wire, he means 1 inch to 1000 one inches, but in reality for him it means 1 inch to the number of coil turns on his speaker magnet per coil times two times the number of toroids he can make and hide inside his devices plus some drive batteries to keep it going.

So if you take a good woofer speaker and can remove the magnet without destroying anything else, then put it back with a protective sheet in between to not scratch or short the windings, them possible  play with the height of the toroid in relation to the moving speaker coil that becomes the drive coil, there may be a small point in that relation that produces a very pointal conveyance of the speaker coil movement to the vertical inner center portion of the toroidal coils to produce output. The speaker coil moving will consume peanuts in terms of energy. As the toroid coils become more and more energized this changes the speaker magnets overall strength and causes a compounding effect on the output.

So the LTPU could have at least 10 of these toroid TPUs inside it (two vissible and eight hidden). That's why he used bailing wire so each toroid would be held in space vertically inside the LTPU walls. When he swiped the exterior of the LTPU wall with his hand magnet and let the magnet free for a second it stuck to the sidewall probably sticking to the top part of a toroid which itself is a speaker magnet. By sliding the magnet around the outer LTPU wall, he can sense each hidden toroid and determine if they are functional by feeling a pulsing in his hand. 

He made one discovery and used it in each one of his TPUs. One discovery would be all we need to figure out with some bench time.
If his MTPU had one toroid visible and four more hidden in the outer walls, then the LTPU showed two outer toroids and he could have two times four making 8 toroids hidden inside the outer LTPU walls, this "could" explain it all.

"Could" being the code word for still being highly presumptive while providing at least a logic base to continue from.

Again in Spin Conveyance the Atom is the hero that holds all the energy prowess. Make a small vector part of a wire change or SWAY the nuclei and that sway will convey and grow. By having a speaker coil vibrate inside the center of the magnet toroid each turn gets a small vector impulse, that impulse pushes the next turn even more and more like a canon firing into another canon.

Hmmmmmm. Some stuff to try now. hahahaha

wattsup

Added: You need the speaker magnet to enable the speaker coil to oscillate. You need two or more coils on the speaker magnet to sense that oscillation and provide output. The speaker magnet then also provides the two toroid coils a strong biasing of the copper nuclei latent state to hold in one position while the speaker coil makes the nuclei sway with much more torque given the magnet bias is always there to spring the nuclei back. The speaker coil energizes, sways the toroid coil nuclei and at off, the speaker magnet returns the nuclei to their held position.










« Last Edit: 2016-11-23, 13:57:37 by wattsup »


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Quote
We winds two coils on the toroidal speaker magnet

Do you have a drawing of this or what you mean?


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@GK

Got your PM. This weekend I will make a mock up and do a video. It will be better then trying to draw it out. The advantage we have is we are not concerned about "hiding" things and this probably took triple time for SM to build his TPUs always with that fear of spilling the beans.

wattsup

 


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With the bucking coils on the axial magnetic toroid I can see the Bloch wall manipulation going on.
I too have a simple build in progress. Results should prove interesting. And this device configuration is small.


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@all

So this is what I mean and there could be variations thereof.

Had the speaker magnet and wound coils already for long ago tests. Wire is a little thin but by chance, I found a midrange speaker. Took four screws off. Turned it over and surprise, perfect fit. So this is what I will be playing with during the weekend. Plus the "inherent" frequency of 5000 hertz is more midrange then woofer so this will tie in maybe dimensionaly and physically with what SM would have had available to him.

I have two mid-range speakers so I will eventually try it with two on the same toroid, one of each side like he could have inside the LTPU outer walls. That would be analog to his question of "What could two fields going in opposite directions do?".

wattsup

Added:

Components like this one are a potential. Maybe the metal plate below the SM toroid is a mid-range speaker coil of some particular model. Like this one......
http://www.parts-express.com/grs-replacement-diaphragm-jbl-type-fits-2412-2412h-2412h-1-jrx-sf-models--292-4000
« Last Edit: 2016-11-26, 13:25:08 by wattsup »


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I am tracking with you. This is a circular version of the 6 inch wire configuration we did years ago.
This new build has the North face up in a bucking coil winding configuration.
Simple build. I can make other toroid windings with them in a continuous fashion.
The magnets are weak radio shack axial toroids.
I fill finish the second one tonight and then I will test.
Your mention of a metal plate could simply be an aluminum square to cause a bottom compression of the flux upward. Did that before too. It also causes very sharp discharge off the edges. This is another easy item to add.

Two bucking fields will manipulate the N/S stability of the toroid magnet momentarily. Maybe this config will gently rock the bias like tapping a water balloon sitting on a table top.


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My mid-range has a cut in the wire right at the voice coil. I will try to fix it but the wire is so thin. Otherwise I will have to removed the winding and put on a new one with slightly thicker wire and less turns. Will do this today. Dammit.

wattsup



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I had a break too at the end of the winding on right side. Its a pain to fix with the shelac. Your wire will melt just after the shelac burns. I would try acetone and q-tips.


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Interesting results from current build.

http://youtu.be/Mvjd9ImwnKo


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This configuration couples nicely.


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@Wattsup,
The question I have is why not just wind your own tors with the wire gauge that SM used? It looks like 24 to 22. Maybe even 20. And I bet it is stranded. Looks to be a circular Tesla coil of sorts / bucking. The winding we see is the primary and the magnetic bias is the capacitive charge of the the secondary. No matter what the configuration, it is always a square pulse into a pre-existing magnetic field. At least that is what I consistently saw and still see.


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@GK

Interesting results from current build.
http://youtu.be/Mvjd9ImwnKo

Good video and sharp to see those Dragon Tale waveforms. I could not figure how the scope was set but it seems the time div was very low so we could only see one part of a complete cycle if i am not mistaken.

I have a few questions on that videos configuration to better understand.
Are you using two separate FG's?
If so can you adjust an offset between them?
Also, have you tried pulsing the same way but remove the pulse negative and go higher frequencies just to see if there is a resonance point in the 1-6MHz range.

In your trials, where do you anticipate or how do you anticipate producing a point where gain can be accumulated? You see inmy trial I am pulsing a center coil and tanking the toroid coils. Where can you tank on yours?

Since you now have a baseline, listen if you chance by a larger speaker magnet, it would be important to try your same test as in your video with a larger magnet to see if the same effect is there and if so is it stronger or weaker then the smaller single toroid test you made when using the same wire and pulse settings. This will be important to know if the coil wire thickness has to be better matched to the size of the toroid. If wire is very important, it may be that the wire awg is just as important as any wire type and any thicker or thinner and the effect does not happen.

I am saying this because on mine with the thinner wire wound directly onto the magnet core, I think the wire is just held in stasis because the awg is just not high enough to offer any room for conveyance. The thin wire copper atoms cannot sway as they should because of the total magnet volume. I will put a wrapping of tape around the magnet just to give the wire some distance from the magnet surface. SM could have dunked his in some type of epoxy or white schellac then wound the coils on that. 

I'm attaching an old drawing I made way back on the center torroid. That's what I will be trying.

My trials. OK, I took apart my second mid-range and it works fine. The problem is the mid-range voice coil is held very tightly with little spring action and when I pulse it, the toroid coils are picking up very little because of the thin toroid coil wires, the tightness of the voice coil . But this is all great news for me because I learned that on this mid-range speaker, because the voice coil is sooo tight, the manufacturer had to use a much larger speaker magnet as shown in my pictures above. So if SM was using a much smaller toroidal speaker magnet if there was a voice inside the center, it would have to be more responsive then what i have now, so most probably a woofer voice coil is much more responsive. That is great news.

So I will tabulate some specifics of this current trial at certain frequencies and keep those as a baseline then change my coil for thicker wire and let you know how it goes. I will also use various types of components for center pulsing. Also i will look for other speaker magnets. There is something in this that deserves attention.

wattsup



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@Wattsup,
I took what you wrote and pondered greatly applying to my previous tests.
In this time I see the Kunel patent come to light again.
I set it up to see.
I believe that the Kunel patent shows the simplest of setups to commandere the flux.
Here is the video
I am striving to minimize the build or complexity down to the least amount of terms.
This includes winding toroids which can be exhausting for each build.
I believe with this latest build it enables me to get right at the main point and that is to bounce the field.
What do you think?
Time permitting I will move the reader coil into the air gap and pulse it in synch with the electromagnet pulsing or vary the frequencies.


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Good video and sharp to see those Dragon Tale waveforms. I could not figure how the scope was set but it seems the time div was very low so we could only see one part of a complete cycle if i am not mistaken.

My bad for not answering this.
My scope is slow and this is the last click of the timebase I can do before the signal triggering doesnt show.
I can do a waveform save or cursor capture. But this scope does connect to a pc.
My portable OWON that could blew up 4 years ago.


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@GK

Sorry I have been out of it for the last few days. My business partner of 28 years in our water treatment company just passed away on the 29th. So I have been kind of distracted on my bench works. His funeral is Sunday so as of next week, I should be back in the swing of things and undertake phase two of my toroid studies. My brain is still in shock cause this was very sudden. Shortness of breath, go to the hospital one day, come out horizontal three days later after dying of a heart attack.

I am sure we are on the right tracks, you on one track and me in the other trying various complimentary facets of this magnet core. I will try a more flexible center voice coil because right now the output on the toroidal coils is not good enough to discuss. I want to also try and place a small motor in the center that will turn two magnets inside the center. That may also be an way that could explain the slight vibration. Inherent frequency of 5000Hz could be 5000 divided by 32 turns per toroid coil or 156 rpm, slow turning but maybe enough to create some dc with slight AC hash. hahaha Even in the hardest moments, you cannot get your mind off this stuff.

Back soon.

wattsup


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Sorry to hear about your partner. Heart attacks early in the week are caused by dehydration. This age group suffers from prostrate problems of either can't go or can't control. This later group tends to limit their intake of fluids which leads to dehydration. Then at the start of an event the exertion stresses the body which the system is lacking lower levels of vital fluids. Just thought you would like to know.

Also I enjoyed your mentioning motors. In 1996 I became the inventor of tactical feedback for prosthetic hands by attaching pager motors to resistive fingertip pads for variable speed. I know the vibrations your are talking about. And also motors are revolving sparkgap generators.

That being said my my step is to try this:
« Last Edit: 2016-12-14, 16:17:33 by giantkiller »


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@GK

Have you ever seen this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2vAMmn2WzI

OK, I'm back on the bench and I will start to make some videos to show a progression of the investigation process using a speaker magnet toroid.

wattsup


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