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Author Topic: Best methods for charging electric cars  (Read 8847 times)
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I've been thinking to trade in my gas vehicle for this new hot vehicle:

http://www.ford.com/electric/focuselectric/2012/?fmccmp=fvlp-gt-et-ev-clickin


It looks so good, and sleek,  I think this is it, we'll never go back to gasoline once these vehicles hit the road!   Big changes are coming, changes we've been waiting for for a while.

But I have a question:   what is the best method to charge these vehicles on the road?   More then ever, we need something that can charge these cars on the road so we don't have the worry that we might get stranded, because they do have limited range.

EM
   
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I can't answer your question.  However, I am amazed.  It doesn't have a trunk, it has a "Cargo Management System."

If you are over 40, will you be able to figure out how to use it?

Don't trust anyone under 35....
   

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There will be competition among the electric
charging stations to see who will be able to
provide the service for the lowest cost.

But wait - what will replace the Gasoline Tax?

Aha!  Now it's beginning to make sense.  The
governments will oppose anything which has
the potential to upset the apple cart.

In any case, it will be very interesting to see
how it all pans out.  Those who are knowledgeable
in electricity and electronics will find it very easy
and very inexpensive to keep their electrics "full."


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"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   
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Just so there is no confusion,  what I mean by "charging on the road"  is "charging while moving."

If I have to stop every 100 miles and charge for 3 to 4 hours, that would make long trips more annoying.  Assuming I drive from Las Vegas to Los Angeles (about a 200 mile trip), at speeds of 70 miles per hour through the desert,  I would be driving for one hour and some minutes and then having to stop and relax or nap for three hours while my EV is charging up.  Not acceptable!     Ok,  just so you guys don't think I've missed the point of the EVs, yes they are meant just for city trafic, got it, but I want to explore ways that we could charge these thing up on the move and extend the range.

Here's some ideas:

1)   Where is Steven Marks's TPU when you need it?    Wouldn't it be nice if all the EV's came with a 1 kW  TPU?   that could expand the range quite a bit.

2) Or how about with Ismael Aviso's cell tower energy receiver  (as some claim)  There are cell towers everywhere along the roads, but trust me you won't be pulling in the required kW from a tower.

3)  Solar energy is certainly the most practical.  I could place a bunch of wafers on the hood and roof of the car and charge up. Maybe I can get around 300 watts perhaps?

4)  A few years ago somebody told me that a car can be charged from the moving air.  A fan can be installed and it can charge batteries etc, but we know that this also presents drag so we don't win anything, but,  I was just thinking,  what if I install a wing on the car, perhaps a 4 ft wide wing and I let it move up and down to rotate an axle and generator?   An airfoil, if designed right can have a lift to drag coefficient of maybe 20 to 30, in other words,  the lift it produces can be 30 times the drag it produces.   Would this help in generating more energy on a moving car than the car has to overcome to maintain it's speed?   We know that force is not energy, and it's energy that counts.  

Energy is equal to (force x distance),  and if we let the airfoil move up and down quickly enough, relative to the forward motion, would we be able to achieve more energy?

Let's say I'm moving at 60 km/h = 1 km/min = 16.7 m/s,   the power I would need to dissipate and overcome a drag of 10 Newtons, would be  167 watts.    Now,  if I can generate a lift that is 30 times larger then the drag force,  it would be 300 newtons, so to generate more power the velocity of the wing in the up and down direction, would have to be:  167/300 = 0.557 m/s    

This seems possible to me.   I can just envision a wing that adjusts it's pitch angle at the top and bottom of its vertical travel and constantly produces a force on a crankshaft, much like a piston on a crankshaft.  It could even move at 2 m/s, and produce more energy than the car dissipates to overcome drag.  In fact, this would be about 4 times the energy required, or a COP of 4.  Such wing would appear to be fluttering up and down very rapidly, and thus generate lots of energy.   Who thinks this will work?

[edit]   this design of a reciprocating wing, is advantageous because it does not take up a lot of space, unlike a propeller on top of the car.  The wing could have a vertical travel of only 0.5 meters, and thus be very space efficient!


EM

PS.  I wonder if that's why planes that go unstable, break up in flight when they begin to flutter.  Flutter might be a mechanism that opens up the "flood gates" of energy from the atmospheric pressure and it could be an overunity mechanism of sorts.
« Last Edit: 2012-03-11, 06:11:16 by EMdevices »
   

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Quote
what will replace the Gasoline Tax?
I have an incling on this one, there has to be a reason that Europe has been increasing the number of GPS satelites many times over, oh i know they are already trying to introduce pay per mile, simple track the car using satelite and you get a nice bill at the end of each month.

I bet it will become law soon that all cars are fitted with trackers from new and introduce it in stages, the technology is not quiet there yet with regard to hours of charging  C.C

We have had zinc air batteries suggested where you pull up into a filling exchange and get the electrodes swapped out but much more interestingly some time ago someone worked out how to produce a lithium battery electrode that does not impede the in rush of charge current, the main problem would be limiting the charge rate, imagine pluggin a zillion amp charge rated battery into your house wiring so ultimately it will be very hard to do even a fast charge on a car because of the total power/time required.

There is a new tech which is probably going to stop electric cars though, someone has worked out how to get a liquid to absorb chemically hydrogen gas, so you pull up at a filling station, get the depleted liquid taken out and replaced with fully charged fluid, this is probably the best method because all the filling stations are in place and it can be tax per gallon as usuall, that is until one of us guys works out how to replace the hydrogen ourselves.
   
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PS.  I wonder if that's why planes that go unstable, break up in flight when they begin to flutter.  Flutter might be a mechanism that opens up the "flood gates" of energy from the atmospheric pressure and it could be an overunity mechanism of sorts.

There's no overunity in flutter, same as there's none in a flag waving. It's just an unstable aerodynamic oscillation from unbalanced control surfaces...very dangerous..and a factor in setting Vne. (velocity never exceed)...control surfaces can begin to flutter at higher speeds, along with the usual g forces becoming too great for the structure as designed. It's a resonance, of a sort...the natural vibrational frequency of the control. If you reach it, an aileron or elevator begins to flap like a flag, and can break off.

Note: this resonance is not overunity in action. It's aerodynamic, same thing that brought the Tacoma Narrows bridge down. Balancing the control helps reduce the tendency for each cycle to cause amplification of the flutter once the control surfaces natural frequency is reached.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroelasticity

If you wanted to play around with it though, set an unbalanced vertical or horizontal flap on a hinge, attach a floating drive rod to it with a solenoid piston on the other end, and turn on a fan until you hit the sweet spot, and maybe your solenoid generator will make some power, until it flaps itself to pieces (eventually). Except the resistance from the coil would tend to balance out the vibrations, as a de-facto balancer on the surface.
   

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EM,

The best ways to charge an EV while driving is to recover energy with dynamic braking (I think that is pretty standard, now), use Peltier conversion (recover energy in the form of heat-not worth the investment AFAIAC), solar cells (not much good unless your vehicle is as light as a paper airplane), install a pedal powered generator-get married-have kids-set each one up with a pedal powered generator - drive in silent bliss as everyone else will not have enough breath to ramble, like this sentence  ;D   


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"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   
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WW, this car claims a maximum of 90% energy recovery when breaking, but if the breaks are pressed hard, I would think a lot less energy is recovered.  If we can recover 100% of the energy, then driving between two locations on earth that are at the same altitude,  would only require energy lost to friction and inefficiencies in the convertion of energy from the batteries to the motor.  A big part of the frictional losses is probably air friction, so the slower we drive the more efficiency.   Perhaps if I drive to Los Angeles from Las Vegas at 50 mph, I might get that range of 200 miles, maybe?   but it would take a longer time, so it's a matter of how I want to use the time,  either waiting to recharge, or driving slow and listening to the radio  :)

Why are we in such a hurry anyway?   Perhaps these electric cars will help us rethink our way of life!

EM


   

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Wow i have never heard of 90% recovery, my bike's max is 30% regen but never checked it.
   

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Why are we in such a hurry anyway?   Perhaps these electric cars will help us rethink our way of life!


I agree with your thoughts.

Let us not go so far as to allow riding a horse to help us rethink our way of life  :)

I believe the method of calculating that 90% may be as questionable as calculations for advertised gas mileage  :o


---------------------------
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   
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Here is a really great guide on Electric Vehicle Conversion if you want to DIY... your NOT alone :)

 http://is.gd/GQiFkY

how would i charge it? With a RADIANT device...


and good leads on a regenerative braking , brake conversion kit for a pickup truck?
   
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