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Author Topic: Bob Lazar on Joe Rogan  (Read 538 times)

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I like his interviews so it was interesting to see him interview Bob. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEWz4SXfyCQ Some interesting things I hadn't heard before.
   
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Hello Jim
I saw the interview as well and found it interesting. I think we tend to read about these things such as Bob Lazar's disclosure that happened long ago and dismiss them as unbelievable things we can never know for certain. However this latest interview seemed different and I saw some clips from the video about Mr.Lazar that intrigued me. I listen for "keywords" and one that caught my attention was "inertia" as it relates to propulsion which Mr.Lazar mentioned.

Long ago I had determined that there is no power supply that can accelerate a craft/mass to such velocity nor could it produce a change in velocity/direction without killing the occupants therefore... it must be something else. Here the critics would seemed to have helped me the most because it was in fact there objections which provided the only possible solutions in my opinion. If in fact it would take an astronomical amount of energy to accelerate a craft to such velocity because of the property of inertia then obviously the property of inertia must not be present or negated in some way. Inertia is described as a "property" of mass thus if the property changes then the energy input to change the velocity must change as well.

Here things get very strange as we could say a property of something may qualify as energy in itself. I believe this is true because if I could modify the property of inertia and accelerate an object with almost no energy input, return the property of inertia to normal then capture the energy from the deceleration of the object then the energy of acceleration/deceleration cannot be equal. I must have gained energy in some way not based on the energy of a mass per say as mass/velocity or momentum but the properties relating to a mass said to have energy due to a change in velocity.

So what does this mean?, it may mean we cannot break the laws of physics as we know them as they are defined nor do we need to. However if we could change the conditions or properties which relate directly to how the laws are defined then there is no need to break anything. For example drinking and driving is illegal in most places however if my self-driving Tesla car is in control then I am not driving by definition my car is. The rules have changed to such an extent that they cannot apply. Now I have a few and jump into an electric drone which whisks me across town at 100 mph at 1000 feet ... am I impaired?, well it's irrelevant because first there are no cops at 1000 feet, they could not pull me over and I'm not driving anything. Thus it is not so much a matter of what the supposed rules are but the extent to which they have changed. If the the rules have changed to such an extent that they cannot apply then reasonably they cannot apply.

Regards
AC


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Let's imagine that a laptop computer is provided to a 16th century man, even a good one like Leonardo da Vinci.
He could observe the images on the screen, he could even understand the use of buttons, mouse, icons, programs...
But he will never be able to understand how it works. No technical means at the time to obtain an image of the microprocessor chip, read the electrical levels, memories, programs, identify screen or integrated circuits materials...

It is ridiculous to think that we could do reverse engineering on alien equipment, from which it is not even a few centuries but millennia or even hundreds of millennia that could separate us from it.
It is quite possible that the military is stupid enough to think so! However, what are the facts? The military would hold alien equipment and the only leak would be what Lazar says about it without any material evidence to support it? I don't think that kind of secret could remain that way for decades.

According to Wikipedia, Bob Lazar is a shady person, "arrested for aiding and abetting a prostitution ring", "charged with violating the Federal Hazardous Substances Act for shipping restricted chemicals", his company United Nuclear "pled guilty to three criminal counts of introducing into interstate commerce, and aiding and abetting the introduction into interstate commerce, banned hazardous substances". "Lazar claims he earned a master's degree in physics from the MIT and a master's degree in electronic technology fromCaltech; however, there are no records of Lazar attending either MIT or CalTech".
This person is not credible. So I guess I will be explained by a conspiracy theory that all this is done by the men in black to decredit him...   C.C


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Hello Jim
I saw the interview as well and found it interesting. I think we tend to read about these things such as Bob Lazar's disclosure that happened long ago and dismiss them as unbelievable things we can never know for certain. However this latest interview seemed different and I saw some clips from the video about Mr.Lazar that intrigued me. I listen for "keywords" and one that caught my attention was "inertia" as it relates to propulsion which Mr.Lazar mentioned.

Long ago I had determined that there is no power supply that can accelerate a craft/mass to such velocity nor could it produce a change in velocity/direction without killing the occupants therefore... it must be something else. Here the critics would seemed to have helped me the most because it was in fact there objections which provided the only possible solutions in my opinion. If in fact it would take an astronomical amount of energy to accelerate a craft to such velocity because of the property of inertia then obviously the property of inertia must not be present or negated in some way. Inertia is described as a "property" of mass thus if the property changes then the energy input to change the velocity must change as well.

Here things get very strange as we could say a property of something may qualify as energy in itself. I believe this is true because if I could modify the property of inertia and accelerate an object with almost no energy input, return the property of inertia to normal then capture the energy from the deceleration of the object then the energy of acceleration/deceleration cannot be equal. I must have gained energy in some way not based on the energy of a mass per say as mass/velocity or momentum but the properties relating to a mass said to have energy due to a change in velocity.

So what does this mean?, it may mean we cannot break the laws of physics as we know them as they are defined nor do we need to. However if we could change the conditions or properties which relate directly to how the laws are defined then there is no need to break anything. For example drinking and driving is illegal in most places however if my self-driving Tesla car is in control then I am not driving by definition my car is. The rules have changed to such an extent that they cannot apply. Now I have a few and jump into an electric drone which whisks me across town at 100 mph at 1000 feet ... am I impaired?, well it's irrelevant because first there are no cops at 1000 feet, they could not pull me over and I'm not driving anything. Thus it is not so much a matter of what the supposed rules are but the extent to which they have changed. If the the rules have changed to such an extent that they cannot apply then reasonably they cannot apply.

Regards
AC

Inertial problems disappear when the craft has it's own gravitational field,as gravitational mass and inertial mass are equal-->( F=Gm1,m2/r^2). So as long as your traveling within your own gravitational field,you should be good  O0 .


Brad


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So what does this mean?, it may mean we cannot break the laws of physics as we know them as they are defined nor do we need to. However if we could change the conditions or properties which relate directly to how the laws are defined then there is no need to break anything.

The physics laws are not "defined", they are discovered and modelized/mathematized. You can sometimes bypass what bothers you about them, but you can't rewrite them because then they would no longer correspond to the observations for which they are the source.

As for changing parameters, it's been done for a long time! E=1/2*Q²/C so let's decrease C and we will have more energy... except that decreasing C requires the exact energy that we will then find in the capacitor.
Even if we knew how to manipulate inertia, it is likely that the energy needed to do so will be the one we will gain, for example, because we have increased the kinetic energy.




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 author=F6FLT link=topic=3797.msg75593#msg75593 date=1561538966]


Quote
It is ridiculous to think that we could do reverse engineering on alien equipment, from which it is not even a few centuries but millennia or even hundreds of millennia that could separate us from it.


Exactly  O0

Just 1000 years is but a blink of an eyelid as far as the age of the universe go's.

Looking at how far we have come in the last 200 year's,make you wonder how much further advanced we will be in 1000 years-->that is,if we have not self destructed by then.

What we need is some Vibranium  O0

Odd how Bob was talking about this element 118 before it was even discovered though  ???


Brad


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With critical thinking I find his story ridiculous. I have followed his story since the very beginning.

Rocket boy Rookie on the job 1 day is given the most important task to analyze an antigravity device, the most important part of the craft.. After all he did hook a rocket engine to a car, so he therefore has all the required credentials for deep state work.....not!

He is given complete access to the rest of the craft. (not gonna happen, government likes to keep things compartmentalized, only the need to know, and as little info as possible given)
 (device is not given to him in a sealed room away from the craft such that his analysis would not have a bias)

Radio waves (electromagnetic) will bend around the craft, but not light waves (electromagnetic) which would make the device invisible. Yet they only fly on Wednesday when there is less traffic on the road so the craft would not be seen.....come on!

There are so many holes in his story I had to turn it off, it looked more like Swiss cheese, we were both laughing our arses off watching it.

Bob Lazar has always been a good con man in that he tells a somewhat believable story to those without critical thinking.

I remember listening to him on Art Bell and Coast to Coast as well as many other woo woo shows in years past when I was more gullable, and less experienced in spotting frauds.

Rogan tries to be a good interviewer, especially when he lowers his voice to appear really serious, but he never really asks the critical questions that would make Lazar squirm out of his chair, and possibly blow his cover. If he did, the interview would be over and Rogans ratings and clicks would fall.

I liked Rogan in the beginning but he has been "bought out" and his handlers keep him n a short leash. Ratings are the game. Watch the movie "Network" then apply the theme to such internet shows.

Believe what you will, but you get what you accept.

P.S. That does not mean I deny such craft and devices could be real, only that if you signed the appropriate gov't papers to get that close to such craft, you would not be telling such stories on woo woo shows, or you would wind up in prison, sued for everything you own or worse.
Think!!


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......Inertia is described as a "property" of mass
IMO it should really be defined as a "property" of both the mass and the space or aether within which the mass resides.  The mass "property" can be something like its collision cross section against the aether virtual particles (sub-photons, think of them as neutrino-like particles arriving from all directions).  And the space "property" can be something like the density and momentum of those sub-photons.  Then inertial forces are explained by anisotropic momentum exchange that occurs when the mass is accelerating and gravitational forces are explained by anisotropic momentum exchange due to anisotropy of the arriving sub-photons (so called warped space).
Smudge 
   
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IMO it should really be defined as a "property" of both the mass and the space or aether within which the mass resides.  The mass "property" can be something like its collision cross section against the aether virtual particles (sub-photons, think of them as neutrino-like particles arriving from all directions).  And the space "property" can be something like the density and momentum of those sub-photons.  Then inertial forces are explained by anisotropic momentum exchange that occurs when the mass is accelerating and gravitational forces are explained by anisotropic momentum exchange due to anisotropy of the arriving sub-photons (so called warped space).
Smudge

I agree and the model I use for simplicity (my simple mind)  is that an object moving through space revs up the internal oscillators of the mass by the pumping of aether through the mass. Somewhat like one of those little cars with an internal flywheel that is difficult to push at first but then easily continues until the stored energy winds down from frictional losses.

I was always puzzled regarding why an object set in motion would continue in the same direction, when upon examining the object in any slice of time there would appear to be no reason why it should continue in the same direction as there is no memory within the object if physically examined that could account for this. So I devised the aether pumping of internal oscillators hypothesis as a possible solution.

Maybe childish and simple, but just a model I use to visualize.



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...Then inertial forces are explained by anisotropic momentum exchange that occurs when the mass is accelerating and gravitational forces are explained by anisotropic momentum exchange due to anisotropy of the arriving sub-photons (so called warped space).
Smudge

Why "sub-photons" would arrive? They can't be both the cause and the effect of gravitational forces.
 


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Why "sub-photons" would arrive? They can't be both the cause and the effect of gravitational forces.
They arrive from outer space, from all the distant masses, explaining Mach's principle.  Sub-photon is just my term as it is accepted that real photons carry momentum.  Perhaps I should have said virtual photons.  They have spin, and that spin decides in what direction a stable mass particle ejects its virtual particles.  Of course to be stable it has to eject its absorbed virtual particles at the same rate as the absorption.  In isotropic space (no warping) the virtual particles arrive equally from all directions thus there is no average force over many absorptions, only the jittery Heisenberg uncertainty.  Same goes for the virtual particle emissions.  But near another mass that isotropy is destroyed because now the test mass is receiving particles emitted from the nearby one.  Those emitted particles have spin aligned with their velocity, while those from outer space don't.  That is the warped effect that creates gravity.

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Ion
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P.S. That does not mean I deny such craft and devices could be real, only that if you signed the appropriate gov't papers to get that close to such craft, you would not be telling such stories on woo woo shows, or you would wind up in prison, sued for everything you own or worse.
Think!!

We should be clear that if you signed the appropriate gov't papers to get that close to such craft the papers do not include conspiracy or treason against your country and lying to or misleading the general public. Not to mention crimes against humanity by causing undue pain and suffering by not disclosing the associated scientific discoveries. Understand there is no valid contract which requires anyone to sell out there country and humanity.

As well nobody will be going to prison or getting sued. What would the government lawyer say?... *Lawyer* - Your honor I submit this man disclosed government secrets which I can neither confirm or deny actually exist and which may constitute extortion due to the crimes and treason committed by this government agency. *Judge* - "get this moron out of my courtroom, case dismissed".

Make no mistake, the people who are not disclosing the truth are the criminals who belong in prison not the people trying to let the truth be known for the betterment of mankind. Since when did lying, cheating and treason become acceptable?... never is the correct answer.


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Ion
We should be clear that if you signed the appropriate gov't papers to get that close to such craft the papers do not include conspiracy or treason against your country and lying to or misleading the general public. Not to mention crimes against humanity by causing undue pain and suffering by not disclosing the associated scientific discoveries. Understand there is no valid contract which requires anyone to sell out there country and humanity.

As well nobody will be going to prison or getting sued. What would the government lawyer say?... *Lawyer* - Your honor I submit this man disclosed government secrets which I can neither confirm or deny actually exist and which may constitute extortion due to the crimes and treason committed by this government agency. *Judge* - "get this moron out of my courtroom, case dismissed".

Make no mistake, the people who are not disclosing the truth are the criminals who belong in prison not the people trying to let the truth be known for the betterment of mankind. Since when did lying, cheating and treason become acceptable?... never is the correct answer.

Exactly AC
What would the government say in court?
Bob is disclosing our secret UFO tech lol.

That would go down well.

Brad


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Well then I guess Julian Assange, Chelsea Manning, Edward Snowden and Julius and Ethel Rosenberg have nothing to worry about.


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Well then I guess Julian Assange, Chelsea Manning, Edward Snowden and Julius and Ethel Rosenberg have nothing to worry about.

And his motive. For such a story?

Just watched the doco on Netflix. A little bit cheesy Hollywood but I certainly came away from it believing him. I used to believe the smears.
   

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Rogan tries to be a good interviewer, especially when he lowers his voice to appear really serious, but he never really asks the critical questions that would make Lazar squirm out of his chair, and possibly blow his cover. If he did, the interview would be over and Rogans ratings and clicks would fall.

I liked Rogan in the beginning but he has been "bought out" and his handlers keep him n a short leash. Ratings are the game. Watch the movie "Network" then apply the theme to such internet shows.

Think!!

Wow you seem to have deep insights, obviously you would have data to support such extraordinary claims  C.C  Bob Lazar is the worst con man in history as he is not selling anything.
   
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Wow you seem to have deep insights, obviously you would have data to support such extraordinary claims  C.C  Bob Lazar is the worst con man in history as he is not selling anything.

Well if you don't count books, movies, paid spots on syndicated radio, TV appearances, conferences etc. you are right and I agree, he isn't selling anything, well, perhaps maybe fireworks before he was stopped.

https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/2007/New-Mexico-Company-Fined-Ordered-To-Stop-Selling-Illegal-Fireworks-Components/

https://www.justice.gov/civil/cpb/case/us-v-united-nuclear-scientific-supplies-et-al-0

For the data you want, just google it, its out there. You are good at research so you might be surprised what you find.

Start exploring all the references here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar

Radio appearances:

https://www.coasttocoastam.com/guest/lazar-bob/5916

https://www.unknowncountry.com/?s=Bob+Lazar

e.g. just on Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Bob+Lazar

His story has been sold to countless magazines, too many to list.

P.S. I watched the movie, a really bad production IMO
« Last Edit: 2019-06-29, 03:03:38 by ion »


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And his motive. For such a story?
Just watched the doco on Netflix. A little bit cheesy Hollywood but I certainly came away from it believing him. I used to believe the smears.

I had the same impression after watching part of the documentary and the Rogan interviews... too many things just don't add up. Here we have an intelligent, educated, quite moderate and well spoken gentleman who has gained nothing from his disclosure but grief and condemnation from day one. If he was a fox news/Alex jones drama queen littering facebook and twitter raking in millions then I might think differently however this is not what happened. He told his story he faced the consequences for doing so then he moved on with his life.

If you want to know who has little or no credibility then just follow the money and Mr. Lazar is obviously not them in my opinion. The fact that everyone and there dog took extraordinary measures to discredit him is very telling as well. If it was just another BS story then why all the drama, why all the intervention and denial and attacks and law suits?. If it was all BS then nobody should care or be concerned but everyone seemed very concerned at the time and took extraordinary measures to try and discredit him.

In any case I have seen these craft first hand a couple times and I have many close friends who I trust explicitly who have seen them as well. So who would you have me believe?, myself and a majority of my best friends I have known most of my life or government agencies and internet trolls?. It's almost comical isn't it?, everyone seems to be peddling BS out there but the real people we know and trust see things a little different.

One last note, when a person has to attack another persons credibility on a personal level and not conceptually and not philosophically and not based on the idea presented then in my opinion that person has little or no credibility.


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Jim
I had the same impression after watching part of the documentary and the Rogan interviews... too many things just don't add up. Here we have an intelligent, educated, quite moderate and well spoken gentleman who has gained nothing from his disclosure but grief and condemnation from day one. If he was a fox news/Alex jones drama queen littering facebook and twitter raking in millions then I might think differently however this is not what happened. He told his story he faced the consequences for doing so then he moved on with his life.

If you want to know who has little or no credibility then just follow the money and Mr. Lazar is obviously not them in my opinion. The fact that everyone and there dog took extraordinary measures to discredit him is very telling as well. If it was just another BS story then why all the drama, why all the intervention and denial and attacks and law suits?. If it was all BS then nobody should care or be concerned but everyone seemed very concerned at the time and took extraordinary measures to try and discredit him.

In any case I have seen these craft first hand a couple times and I have many close friends who I trust explicitly who have seen them as well. So who would you have me believe?, myself and a majority of my best friends I have known most of my life or government agencies and internet trolls?. It's almost comical isn't it?, everyone seems to be peddling BS out there but the real people we know and trust see things a little different.

One last note, when a person has to attack another persons credibility on a personal level and not conceptually and not philosophically and not based on the idea presented then in my opinion that person has little or no credibility.

Totally agree.
It seems the burden of proof does not extend to those who call fraud. It's one thing to say the story does not make sense to you, it's something else entirely to fill in the blanks to suit your own narrative.  The number of assumptions you have to make to explain away the story is ridiculous.
   
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Totally agree.
It seems the burden of proof does not extend to those who call fraud. It's one thing to say the story does not make sense to you, it's something else entirely to fill in the blanks to suit your own narrative.  The number of assumptions you have to make to explain away the story is ridiculous.

From my point of view:"The number of assumptions you have to make to explain  the story is ridiculous.

The level of gullibility and ignored cognitive dissonance you are required to have to believe the story is equally ridiculous if not more so.

I apparently lack the required level of both.

In the beginning, nearly 30 years ago when I first heard of him, probably on the Art Bell show or CtoCAM I was somewhat a believer in Bob Lazar''s story. Later with the internet I was able to do a lot of research on the man, and my opinion slowly changed.
I found he was making money selling his story to these enterprises as well as countless magazines. His job is to keep the story alive by telling as consistent a story as he possibly can to be believable. This is his main source of income. So he has gotten good at plugging some of the holes in his story.

You have to remember that these shows also do stories on Bigfoot, Loch Ness, Chupacabra, Devils voice from the Hell Hole and other stories that belong in the rag on the supermarket checkout magazine rack. I wouldn't be surprised to find an old  issue that has Lazar's story.

No one addressed some of the issues I brought up e.g his point that elecromagnetic waves would bend around the craft. This would make the craft invisible, yet he claimed they could only fly on Wednesday when there was reduced traffic on the highway so as not to be seen.

Problem is that any proof I could bring up would be dismissed as government attempts to discredit him and I can't make a case when that is the ultimate broad brush that any data would be discredited with.

So there can be no reasonable debate  if that is this ultimate tool.

To each his opinion, that's probably the best we can do in this case.

« Last Edit: 2019-06-29, 17:26:38 by ion »


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  IMHO --
   If there is to be a proof of ET-Life, it will come from repeatable, verifiable OBSERVATION by several independent observers.   IMO.

   I find the Lunar Transient Phenomena to be much more interesting than Lazar's story (personally) - and someday, we'll take a scientific approach to verification - again, IMHO. 

   I'm writing about this now; here's a taste:
     
  "Astronomer Winifred Cameron composed a summary paper on LTP dated November 2003, “Analyses of Lunar Transient Phenomena (LTP) Observations from 557–1994 A.D., by Winifred S. Cameron.”  Her paper is available to the public here:  http://users.aber.ac.uk/atc/tlp/cameron.pdf ."
   

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He says he makes no money from it. You say he does, yet you provide no evidence. Interesting.
   
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He says he makes no money from it. You say he does, yet you provide no evidence. Interesting.

Does he provide evidence for his statement? My statement is based on common sense. The world wouldn't know about Lazar if not for his books, movie etc. You believe he does it all at no cost and is not making money. I would say he  is not making much money because of the poor quality of the story books and movie IMO.

http://www.stantonfriedman.com/index.php?ptp=articles&fdt=2011.01.07

http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the-bob-lazar-corner/lazar-flaws-education/

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Robert_Lazar

http://www.ufojoe.net/?p=220

https://science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/bob-lazar.htm

https://podcast.sjrdesign.net/shownotes_133.php

From the last link:
Quote
And that’s the way things are. Nothing about his story checks out. Nothing he said about ununpentium checks out, other than it exists, but even embedded within the validation of ununpentium’s existence is a refutation of Bob Lazar’s story: He said it couldn’t be manufactured.

And so, we’re left with a fun story and nothing else but some lessons we can carry over to other fields. I don’t have to tell you that because Spiderman takes place in New York City, and New York City is real, that does not mean Spiderman is real. I don’t have to tell you that because scientists are working on ways to make things invisible, that means Harry Potter is real.

But, I have to tell some people that because Zecharia Sitchin used some Sumerian names, that does not mean anything Sitchin claimed is real. And as with this episode, I have remind some people that all because someone makes a prediction, and some tiny sliver of that prediction later is validated, that does not mean that everything they claimed is true.

And now something fun to read: https://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Debunking-UFO-Expert-Bob-Lazar-Part-1-20120825

Jim, so believe whatever you want, I really don't care.

Over, out.
« Last Edit: 2019-06-30, 03:41:33 by ion »


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That's ok. I'm surprised that's all.

I did dismiss him years ago after I had watched and read a lot of those things. The information in the video & the doco dispelled a lot of that for me. I'm not trying to convince anyone, I'm also not prepared to say someone is a con man nor dismiss one of the most critical publishers when it comes to UFO claims. Rogan has repeatedly stated he does not know of any credible claims after he did a doco about them.

Over, out.

   
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That's ok. I'm surprised that's all.

I did dismiss him years ago after I had watched and read a lot of those things. The information in the video & the doco dispelled a lot of that for me. I'm not trying to convince anyone, I'm also not prepared to say someone is a con man nor dismiss one of the most critical publishers when it comes to UFO claims. Rogan has repeatedly stated he does not know of any credible claims after he did a doco about them.

Hi Jim

I'm sure with stuff like this all points of view have some merit. Difficult to really know what the truth is. Sorry if my point of view came off a little harsh. I still have more reading to do on the subject and admit I don't have it all clocked in yet nor do I know the actual truth of the matter, which is difficult for anyone to know. There seem to be so many possibilities.

Cheers and happy hunting

P.S. "Over, out" from me means I will be away from the computer for many hours and will not be immediately responding. It does not mean an intent to shut off dialogue forever.

« Last Edit: 2019-07-01, 21:58:39 by ion »


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