PopularFX
Home Help Search Login Register
Welcome,Guest. Please login or register.
2021-10-18, 07:43:28
News: Registration with the OUR forum is by admin approval.

Pages: 1 [2]
Author Topic: About different things  (Read 2142 times)

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 740
Basic Tesla's Experiments (Part 7) - Standing Wave, Node, Reflection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkMndCsNRQU
« Last Edit: 2021-07-28, 17:25:20 by Vasik041 »


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 740
About static electricity from Tesla coil and different types of discharge


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   
Newbie
*

Posts: 29
Hello Vasik041,

thank you so much for this information, very interesting indeed especially Dally's setup.

In 2015 I stumbled on a lecture of this guy here because the title rose my interest: "The Antenna Paradox"
which might be related to the Dally-Setup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4guW5NFs8

Now yesterday evening I took the time to systemically study his video-series on his webside here

http://www.distinti.com/fs.html

and had troubles to stop it until I almost fell asleep right in front of my computer-screen  :o

...and I thought that maybe Chet should invite him here for reasons you can find out if you only follow his first two presentations...awesome,
very well founded, he is an engineer , short VITA here:

http://www.distinti.com/about.html

Now, Vasik, one question about Dally's Coils: Is there a description - or experience of you - of the winding-numbers of the different coil sections and their spacing ( capacitiv decoupling, modes of operation Lambda/4 or Lambda 3/4) . Looks that this is an important factor.

Since the information about his setup are very minimal I surely do believe him that no one will or better can replicate  his system  :(

Mike

Edit: watched in one stride all lectures up to #13 and I can say that he comes up with some very interesting result for a total
different ( wave-model independent ) Inductance model..practical measurements, analysing the resulting numbers with a number of geometrical models with a software until he finds a new model ( just one is left) which fits best to the experimental data ( Rhombus variable loop antenna ). The result is very surprising ( Faradays induction law can be disregarded )
I think that this is a must-study for serious researchers.
Funny: at the end of some lectures he has a "Tearing Procedure" where he selects the relevant pages of a book of classic EM-Theory and pulls them out ;D

« Last Edit: 2021-08-01, 01:47:55 by Kator01 »
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 740
Hello Kator01,

I know about Distinti. He produce some entertainment, yes, but what about practical value of his theories ? I am not sure.
About Dally's device, I don't have any specific info which wasn't published. The coil construction presented quite detailed in the attached file. People have difficulties with replication because they don't understand how such systems work and because some precise tuning needed.
Typically such systems consist of two circuits working together (see UxI.png), one (red) providing voltage and second (blue) providing current. Some ideas about these systems can be found also in pdf file.

Vasik


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   
Newbie
*

Posts: 29
Vasik,

thank you very much. Indeed, two oscillating systems directly coupled ( same groundline ) and inductive and capacitive
coupled are not easy  to understand , not to mention to build and control it. Loose coupling, critcal coupling etc. See Levin here

https://youtu.be/Ye92jN6FrlU?t=1472

which then leads to these "fancy" scope traces you showed in Reply #15 : its exactly this exchange of energy between the two system, Levine demontrates starting from this time-mark. Yellow trace is one Kacher-coil, blue the other.

Since Dallys System operates in the near-field there will be created a virtual strong electrostatic positive field which sucks up electrons from the ground.

Using Kacher-Technique there is a problem: even if they are directly coupled both systems will not have the exact same frequency even if we take very much care in building the coils, because the different influences of the Miller-, and the Gate-Capacitance which are of importance for the gate-cutoff time.

Because of this ( two slightly different frequencies ) you additionally will get a superimposed "beat-frequency" which makes it more difficult.

This is the reason other circuit-designs are used to trigger the Mosfets in sync to avoid beat-frequnecies

Even if constructive interference design is intended with these two Kacher-Systems I doubt it will work stable, however I have to confess that I have to study more on this "constructive-interference" subject and start small experiments .

I think distinti is important - at least IMHO- because of his groundbreaking work on inductance ( Rhombus-experiment), its  definitely not just entertainment for me.
Anyway I have to study more of his work and all that good stuff you show here. Thanks alot

Mike
   
Group: Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 714
Hello Vasik041,

thank you so much for this information, very interesting indeed especially Dally's setup.

In 2015 I stumbled on a lecture of this guy here because the title rose my interest: "The Antenna Paradox"
which might be related to the Dally-Setup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4guW5NFs8
...

Distinti has some very interesting analyses, but on the issue of antennas there is no paradox. Two antennas generate a double level field in the areas where their fields add up, thus a quadruple power, and a zero field thus a zero power in the areas where their fields are in phase opposition. And of course there are all the intermediate values between the two, resulting in a total power in the whole space only equal to the sum of the powers of the 2 TX, as expected. This is true no matter what the antenna radiation patterns are.
Distinti has of course understood all this, but he sees an ambiguity when he makes an analogy with batteries connected in series. But there is no ambiguity: when waves are superimposed (in a linear medium), the vectors characterizing their intensity add up, this is the principle of waves. This is true for all kinds of waves, not only electromagnetic waves, but also sound waves or the swell on the sea. Electromagnetic waves have the same properties as any other waves. Sometimes there are crossed swells at a small angle. If two swells of 1 meter cross each other, we will have a swell of 2 meters, and everyone finds this normal, and rightly so. "Meter" or "Volt/meter" or "Pressure" (for sound wave)  to measure the amplitude of the wave, it makes no difference, they add up.
« Last Edit: 2021-08-12, 11:10:16 by F6FLT »


---------------------------
"Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"
   
Newbie
*

Posts: 29
Hello Vasik,

when I was asking about the Coils in Dally's Video I was asking of the two High Voltage Kacher-Tesla-Coils.
Is there a description how he winds the coils in sections and what the effects are he expects to occur other than
avoid capacitative coupling and step-wise isloation of the increasing voltage ?

Concerning your ICE-Paper I wonder what other ringcore than the FE25-3F3 might be the best option since that core is no longer listed on the ferroxcube webside.
I understood that the BH curve shoud be rectangular but do we have specifications in the official data of a core about
the difference of the entry- and the exit of saturation ? what would be the best choice ?
Do we have to set up an measurement-circuits ourself to test it with different Materials ?

Very Interesting read - yesterday done for 4 hours, I followed your discussion with grandfather.:
https://www.skif.biz/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=689735#689735
..a bit tedious with google-translate

There are more questions now

1) there was a reference to Bessenovś remark about the ferroresonance-trigger effect and since I can not look at the pic ( .gif),
   I would ask if you can provide these pics presented here by user serrg:
   
   http://matri-x.ru/forum/index.php/topic/971-%d1%83%d1%81%d1%82%d0%b0%d0%bd%d0%be%d0%b2%d0%ba%d0 %b0-%d1%82%d0%b0%d1%80%d0%b8%d0%b5%d0%bb%d1%8f-%d0%ba%d0%b0%d0%bf%d0%b0%d0%bd%d0%b0%d0%b4%d0%b7%d0%b5/page__st__12080
   
   the link for Pics : http://lib.e-science.ru/book/130/page/333.gif
   do not work for me

   Any Dokument on this ? in russian it should be no problem as .pdf, exept picures like .gif., .jpg.

   I think this would be an interesting read form page 605 and on...but you must be registered in order to get access to these
   attachments,which is not possible for me

2) Grandfather also speaks about the old Computer-Transformers ( two legs ) dated before 1990, that there is a voltage or 
    current-increase if you switch on leg off
   I would guess I have saved a few from the dump during the last 15 years.
   Are there any test done on switching one leg off ?  and how to do it ?
 
   a lot of questions but this is so interesting.

    Thank you for your work

   Mike
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 740
Hi Kator01,

when I was asking about the Coils in Dally's Video I was asking of the two High Voltage Kacher-Tesla-Coils.
Is there a description how he winds the coils in sections and what the effects are he expects to occur other than
avoid capacitative coupling and step-wise isloation of the increasing voltage ?

There is no detailed description, he said that all coils just a "normal" coils, no bifilars, no grenade etc
Visually you can see that Tesla coils wound on 75mm tubes, you can calculate such coils using Gorchilin's calculator
(http://gorchilin.com/calculator/coil14?lang=en)

Quote
Concerning your ICE-Paper I wonder what other ringcore than the FE25-3F3 might be the best option since that core is no longer listed on the ferroxcube webside.
I understood that the BH curve shoud be rectangular but do we have specifications in the official data of a core about
the difference of the entry- and the exit of saturation ? what would be the best choice ?
Do we have to set up an measurement-circuits ourself to test it with different Materials ?

I was able observe effect with many different types of ferrite. Take any material you have at hand, no rectangular BH curve needed. I tried 3E25,  T38 and N30. I suggest using setup with multiple pulses, so that effect is accumulated
and can be noticed easily.
I spent many years researching this and built several BH curve tracers. The problem is that effect is very small and high precision needed to observe and measure it.

Quote
Very Interesting read - yesterday done for 4 hours, I followed your discussion with grandfather.:
https://www.skif.biz/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=689735#689735
..a bit tedious with google-translate

There are more questions now

1) there was a reference to Bessenovś remark about the ferroresonance-trigger effect and since I can not look at the pic ( .gif),
   I would ask if you can provide these pics presented here by user serrg:
   
   http://matri-x.ru/forum/index.php/topic/971-%d1%83%d1%81%d1%82%d0%b0%d0%bd%d0%be%d0%b2%d0%ba%d0 %b0-%d1%82%d0%b0%d1%80%d0%b8%d0%b5%d0%bb%d1%8f-%d0%ba%d0%b0%d0%bf%d0%b0%d0%bd%d0%b0%d0%b4%d0%b7%d0%b5/page__st__12080
   
   the link for Pics : http://lib.e-science.ru/book/130/page/333.gif
   do not work for me

   Any Dokument on this ? in russian it should be no problem as .pdf, exept picures like .gif., .jpg.

   I think this would be an interesting read form page 605 and on...but you must be registered in order to get access to these attachments,which is not possible for me

Some links become broken. I have translated related posts from matrix forum and also pages from Bessonov's book, see attached fefr.pdf (scroll to the end)

Quote
2) Grandfather also speaks about the old Computer-Transformers ( two legs ) dated before 1990, that there is a voltage or  current-increase if you switch on leg off
   I would guess I have saved a few from the dump during the last 15 years.
   Are there any test done on switching one leg off ?  and how to do it ?

Could you give me a link to Grandfather's post ?
I remember that he was saying that some power supply driver trafos have interesting coils configuration,
but I not sure if it is correct. He is a guru-type character, never speaks directly and use every opportunity to test your knowledge. More or less proper conversation possible only when you are expert in the subject :)
It is interesting and thought provoking but also sometimes frustrating.

Regards,
Vasik


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 740
Related, but usually forgotten:

Quote
The Anhysteretic Magnetization curve (AM), also called ‘ideal magnetization’ when it was first
introduced, is widely used in material characterization and technical applications. In Figure 1,
the exemplary initial and the Anhysteretic Magnetization curve of Mn–Zn ferrite for power applications
are presented. Historically, AM was used extensively in magnetic recording to overcome hysteresis of
the recording medium, and in ‘forced’ magnetization of hard magnetic materials.


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 740
And if you want see something what you probably haven't seen before...

On these pictures top (yellow) trace represents pulse which controls driver (marked ch.A on schematic)
The purpose of LC tank circuit is core demagnetization. I was experimenting with demagnetization and accidentally
found this "peak" (marked with red). It appears only when core demagnetized before applying magnetization pulse.
It confirms the fact that core behaves significantly different if it is demagnetized, and so that it is not enough just switch
driver off to demagnetize core :)

Have fun,
Vasik


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   
Newbie
*

Posts: 29
Hello Vasik,

I apologize, I was down-under because of some tooth-extraction last friiday, so it took my a while to get rid of
the side-effects of the narcotic and had no "brain" to study your documents which I will do ..promised.

wow, that puls is extraordinary, so this might be the technique the Korean Procon-Company (disappeared)  was using. I followed the Link to this video here at the discussion on skif.biz and watched it in amazement.



You certainly know it. Their website is still in the archive:

[url]https://web.archive.org/web/20160305034226/http://www.procongroup.org/run-m-bike.htm[url]

concerning this Computer-Transformer, it is here on page 44.

[url]https://www.skif.biz/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=4922&pagenum=44]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp96a-fVPss[url]

You certainly know it. Their website is still in the archive:

[url]https://web.archive.org/web/20160305034226/http://www.procongroup.org/run-m-bike.htm[url]

concerning this Computer-Transformer, it is here on page 44.

[url]https://www.skif.biz/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=4922&pagenum=44


Google Translation from his post:

Quote
To understand the tricks of the magnetic field, let's look at the swing transformer of a conventional half-bridge computer power supply

I am not shure what he meaes with "swing-transformer" but I think he is not talking about half-wave rectifier but of the centre-tapped fullwave-rectifier, but I am not sure.

https://indieseducation.com/rectifier/

using this old core-configuration with tape-wound-core because these have separated the two coils on each leg
of this core-type. They have used this configuration in order to avoid capacitive coupling of the coils.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Schnittbandkerntrafo-07kva.JPG

...now you learn some german  :) "tape-wound-transformer = Schnittbandkern-Transformator"...Trafo is short-term.

I think, you would like this chip here:

https://www.analog.com/en/products/ltc6992-1.html

Problem, one needs a provider for reflow technique to solder it on an adapter.

One thing I would like to suggest to you which I learned from a friend of mine (electronic engineer) 2 years ago:

If you puls or capture flyback-pulses into a electrolyte capacitor you need to add in parallel to it a few
of those MMLC here, because the electrolyte-Cap is much too inert to adapt to a fast rise-time and simply can not
take in the full energy of the puls so it is burned at the resistance of the leads and within the electrolyte fluid:

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic_capacitor#HF_use,_inductance_(ESL)_and_self-resonant_frequency[url]

You should also use the low-esr type of elecrolyte-cap to further minimize the losses and for the MLLC's the highest
voltage type you can get.

So you might put these values in parallell, one piece of each value is enough

 - 100 pF
 - 1 nF
 - 47 nF
 - 100 nF
 - 470 nF
 - 1 myF
 - 10 myF

The inverse is also true and this is where it is used in professional puls switching circuits with high current demand (30 to 100 A in 20-to 50 ns) - H-Bridges for example.
He told me that if you do not apply this technique the electrolyte-caps might explode right away.
They tested it for sure.

I have a professional H-Bridge from Analog Devices where you can see theses arrays. Will post a pic later

You will notice the difference.

Mike
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 740
Hi Kator,

Here a proper translation of the post and also attached image.
It is an idea how to create very sharp current pulse for fast magnetization.

Regards,
Vasik


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   
Newbie
*

Posts: 29
Thank you,

you have hidden the 2 Legs very well  ^-^

Reminds me of a electric shock I got 11 years ago when I was testing a mag-amp setup using two microwave-transformers.
Secondaries I put in series for the DC Control-current, primaries as opposing working coils acting as saturable reactor.
While under load I measured some unbalance between the two working coils ( both transformers were a little  different ).
So I was trying to eliminate the unbalance with a 25 Watt Bulb ( advice was given to me from a friend, who was experienced
in electronics since 1956 ). Somehow my right finger came close to the mass of one of the cores ( which I did not disconnect from the mass-wire )
and it was just a hair on me finger touching the core when a high voltage shock hit me since I had the bulb-wire in my other hand. I jumped in the air
and was numb for an other 6 hours all articulations aching for one day., was lucky I survived.

I had actually created what I wanted to balance. :-[


Mike
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 740
Yes, electricity can give us light and heat, but also it can bite if we not careful :)


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   
Newbie
*

Posts: 29
Hello Vasik,

please see attached pics of the H-Bridge  CN-0196. You can see the in-parallell to the electrolytic caps placed multilayer-caps on the backside.
On the front you see the 4 ESR-Electrolytic Caps ( 4700 myF ), on the right the MOSFETs

I myself soldered them in a compound to minimize distances.

If Grandpa states:

Quote
The question is where the pulse comes from, because the field in the core was zero before
that.

then this is a misleading question as the fields are not zero but compensated inside in such a way that from the outside ( viewer ) you can not measure any fields or at least you believe that there is no field anymore.

Think about Gennady Markov Transformer

Inside the core the magnetic-fields entangle like a DNA-Helix where the two helical windings run in opposing direction....and in  in a toroid-core they meet in such a way to close the loop: north to south  .... south to north.
You get the idea ?

We could test this by using two identical volumes of different colored ferrofluids, fill the mixture in a small glasstube with two magnets at each end, have a good stir and have a closer look with a microscope. Would be interesting don't you think ?


Mike
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 740
Hi Kator,

nice bridge driver board :)

About opposing/compensated fields: if we take two turns with currents creating opposite magnetic fields
result field will look like this (see attached picture).
This can be observed with any proper field meter (hall sensor, small coil etc)

As I said before, Grandpa enjoy confusing people. Every his statement should be considered with care. It can be true but also can be skillfully designed misinformation.

That is unfortunate situation in the internet nowadays  :(

Regards,
Vasik


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   
Newbie
*

Posts: 29
Vasik,

yes, but this is only true for an air-coil. Inside a iron  or Fe2O3 ( ferrite) core it is different because of the low magnetic
resistance of iron. Air has high magnetic resistance total different story

Maybe Grandpa is a FSB-Agent active at different discussions. I say this because you mentioned that he only is reacting in a discussion to a user if that user is professional enough ( has to show his coin ) but never gives back anything real of value
just giving hints and never a straight answer ( NSA  ;D). I learned this 15 years ago while being approached on the the street
by a scientology-member. At that time they had a Ron Hubbart exposition and he asked me to visit it. Since I knew from my studies
between 1974 and 1992 how they act on people, I say no..wont go there. Then he tried to challenge me ( appealing to my ego ),
asked me if I was not a curious man. So my straight answer was, "of course but the target of my curiosity I determine myself"...discussion finished.
Intelligence service people always ask questions but never reveal anything about themselves, so do not get frustrated and be careful what you reveal because they want to know where you stand ( with your knowledge ) .

Mike
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 740
for Itsu and Verpies - Self running blocking generator video transcript + some info from archive





---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

Group: Professor
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2373
Thank you Vasik
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3182

Yes thanks Vasik,

i quickly put something together (yoke i had, MBR4045 dual diode, MJE13009, 600nF base cap, 2nF L2 cap, 1M base resistor, schottky diode and the coils like mentioned etc.) and it seem to be working right away when powered by 6 to 12V.

I do see that after removing power, it keeps on running for half a minute or so with a similar signal as in the video, then drops voltage to 0.5V and
then keeps on oscillating with some pulses for some additional 5 to 10 minutes (i have a 1000uF 50V electrolytic cap at the input).

I did reverse L1 leads as when in the circuit diagram.

But it does work as a blocking generator (joule thief) as expected, so some tuning and different components could further improve on it.

Itsu
   
Newbie
*

Posts: 29
Hello Itsu,

I looked up some Data:

For KT805 there are A, B and C-Types so there might be a difference

https://alltransistors.com/search.php?search=KT805


The Diode you choosed is a general rectifier, they are slow in the reverse recovery-time, but above all they have a
high instantaneous reverse current of 1 mA which gives proof of beeing slow,so you loose energy, should be in the range of 50 to 100 myko-amps.

I have found that it depends on the application- circuit which choice you make : either general recovery time ( myko-seconds) and low Forward-Voltage-drop or higher Forward-Voltage-drop >1 V and fast recovery time in the range of 20 to 50 nsec.

I had a flyback-recovery-circuit for a transformer-primary ( pulsed and the switched off)  and tested fast Diodes ( 50 ns , Vf 1,1 V) versus an AA143 Germanium Diode and the AA143 outperformed the differend fast diodes I had available.

Concerning the inductance:
pay attention to the reversal of magnetism losses but I do not have much experience in selecting the right core. His monitor-chocke-core might be low on these losses ( depends on the airgap and material)

Its a good start though, thank you Vasik  O0

Also look up the end paragraphs of my post #35 above about capture of flyback-pulses which might be of importance.


Mike
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3182

Hi Kator,  i have opened this thread "Tiger's Blocking Generator replication" here:  https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4181.msg94667#msg94667


Itsu
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 740
Here another document from Tiger, I think it is relevant to the topic


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 740
Mechanical analogy


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   
Pages: 1 [2]
« previous next »


 

Home Help Search Login Register
Theme © PopularFX | Based on PFX Ideas! | Scripts from iScript4u 2021-10-18, 07:43:28