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OverUnity Research > Motors > Permanent Magnet Motors > Potential Magnetic motor "Band Gap Propulsion" . Simple build
2024-04-18, 04:05:06
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Author Topic: Potential Magnetic motor "Band Gap Propulsion" . Simple build  (Read 2621 times)
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img  JimBoot
Potential Magnetic motor "Band Gap Propulsion" . Simple build « on: 2020-08-04, 11:02:39 »

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I think gravity will be its literal downfall if he proposes to loop it as shown. Reminiscent of Howard Johnson's work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZyQTYRllhg
   
img  Cadman
Re: Potential Magnetic motor "Band Gap Propulsion" . Simple build « Reply #1 on: 2020-08-04, 13:23:31 »
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Looks like he figured it out.

Turn the track on edge and loop it, put a rotor or arm with the magnet rollers on each end to spin inside the loop and there you go.

But wait, you can't get work out of magnets. Everyone knows that's impossible. ;D



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'Tis better to try and fail than never try at all
   
img  conradelektro
Re: Potential Magnetic motor "Band Gap Propulsion" . Simple build « Reply #2 on: 2020-08-04, 13:53:53 »
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If you build a round track, the moving magnet will slowly decelerate till it stops. One reason is friction and the second stopping force is the magnetisation of the sheet metal. So, it will stop even without the help of friction.

There were several magnet motors which stopped soon because of the magnetisation of some metal part.

If you look at the slower motion in the video (the magnet on wheels) you can observe a slight deceleration.

Greetings, Conrad
   
img  Cadman
Re: Potential Magnetic motor "Band Gap Propulsion" . Simple build « Reply #3 on: 2020-08-04, 15:56:35 »
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Hi Conrad,

I disagree. Think about it.

This rest of this post is not aimed at you, but to the free energy forums in general.

Why is it the first reaction to a new idea always to debunk it? There are two reasons why it can’t work, so case closed?

Why not give a little thought about to how to overcome those perceived flaws?
Friction. The magnets do not need to touch anything for this to work.
Magnetization of the plates. Orientation of the magnet’s polarity is not a concern. Alternate the disk magnets between N up and S up.

Eddy currents will be a problem. How would you deal with that? Some form of cooling would be needed, or construct the plates out of properly oriented insulated steel wire.

As seekers of free energy we should apply ourselves to solving these kinds of things instead of immediately tossing a new idea because we see a problem.

Regards
Cadman




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'Tis better to try and fail than never try at all
   
img  Room3327
Re: Potential Magnetic motor "Band Gap Propulsion" . Simple build « Reply #4 on: 2020-08-04, 17:51:39 »

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Quote from: Cadman on 2020-08-04, 15:56:35
Hi Conrad,

I disagree. Think about it.

This rest of this post is not aimed at you, but to the free energy forums in general.

Why is it the first reaction to a new idea always to debunk it? There are two reasons why it can’t work, so case closed?

Why not give a little thought about to how to overcome those perceived flaws?
Friction. The magnets do not need to touch anything for this to work.
Magnetization of the plates. Orientation of the magnet’s polarity is not a concern. Alternate the disk magnets between N up and S up.

Eddy currents will be a problem. How would you deal with that? Some form of cooling would be needed, or construct the plates out of properly oriented insulated steel wire.

As seekers of free energy we should apply ourselves to solving these kinds of things instead of immediately tossing a new idea because we see a problem.

Regards
Cadman

Hi Cadman,
I have spent many hours on devices of this very kind, and what I found is the magnets are drawn to the center of the magnetic mass.  When that magnetic mass is arranged circularly, then there is no more magnetic center because the magnetic material goes around in a circle, the moving magnet only appears to move all the way across the ferrous material  when not in a circle, because of momentum.  Another way of seeing the same thing is to use steel wire (welding rod) pieces bent in a V and made into a track with say a centimeter between rods, it works the same way as this video but when put in  a circular track alas no action, magnetic attractions are the same everywhere around the track in a circle, and there is no movement. You can see what I am talking about when the rolling magnet reaches the end of the track and tries to return back to the center of mass (unless it rolls off the end as momentum will do much of the time. I am sorry to say no cigar here. :(

Regards
Room


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"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."  Edmund Burke
   
img  Cadman
Re: Potential Magnetic motor "Band Gap Propulsion" . Simple build « Reply #5 on: 2020-08-04, 18:39:42 »
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Hello Room,

You’re right about the center of mass. I too have built a number of magnet motors and I know exactly what you mean. Those fields are tricky devils.
Did you pay close attention to how his steel plates are shaped and arranged? There’s way too much reluctance for a circular mass to form there.
He’s managed to get the magnet to transition one plate at a time by placing the bend in the plate at the center of mass and the next plate close enough to capture the field and cause it to seek the center of the next plate in line, etc. etc. The magnet’s field is actually leading the magnet from plate to plate.
It’s very clever the way he overlapped the plates so the next plate in line is close to the center of mass of the current plate. You know the magnetic field will be follow the path of least reluctance and that is what he has accomplished. Another noteworthy facet of his design is having the magnetic field parallel to the plates instead of perpendicular.

I really think the man has a winner here. If I had the time right now I’d jump on a build of this.

Regards
Cadman


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'Tis better to try and fail than never try at all
   
img  Room3327
Re: Potential Magnetic motor "Band Gap Propulsion" . Simple build « Reply #6 on: 2020-08-04, 19:24:16 »

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Quote from: Cadman on 2020-08-04, 18:39:42
Hello Room,

You’re right about the center of mass. I too have built a number of magnet motors and I know exactly what you mean. Those fields are tricky devils.
Did you pay close attention to how his steel plates are shaped and arranged? There’s way too much reluctance for a circular mass to form there.
He’s managed to get the magnet to transition one plate at a time by placing the bend in the plate at the center of mass and the next plate close enough to capture the field and cause it to seek the center of the next plate in line, etc. etc. The magnet’s field is actually leading the magnet from plate to plate.
It’s very clever the way he overlapped the plates so the next plate in line is close to the center of mass of the current plate. You know the magnetic field will be follow the path of least reluctance and that is what he has accomplished. Another noteworthy facet of his design is having the magnetic field parallel to the plates instead of perpendicular.

I really think the man has a winner here. If I had the time right now I’d jump on a build of this.

Regards
Cadman
OK, think about this, what causes the propulsion when the rolling magnet is released at the beginning of it's trip down the track? where does the magnet end up if he sets it down close to the center of his track ? and why does it reverse direction and end at the center of the track when it's momemtum does not carry it past the end? And he does not show it in the video but I'd bet it will start from either end of the track just as well and travel towards the center of magnetic mass.

  If what I am saying is not true then maybe he has something and I will gladly give him credit for it! :) But it is easy enough to put his track in a circle and test it, Why did he not show it in a circle? It would have been the first thing I would have tried before I posted 'Eureka' I am very curious as to why he didn't show it in a circle and working, that would have been impressive. O0

Regards
Room


---------------------------
"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."  Edmund Burke
   
img  Magluvin
Re: Potential Magnetic motor "Band Gap Propulsion" . Simple build « Reply #7 on: 2020-08-05, 01:40:26 »

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He is setting the start point purposely far from the first plate. It is running on inertia to make it to the end.  I think if you were able to slow the vid down, we could see a slow down on its way past the first plate. Even if it were attracted more to the middle of the mass as you say, then to redo the test with say 50 plates, I believe it will be moving slower by the time it makes it to the middle. Its a typical Smot.  Generally anything like this you will see them have a starting point that is the prime mover area.  Lay out 100 plates, it may not make it to the middle.

Mags
   
img  Room3327
Re: Potential Magnetic motor "Band Gap Propulsion" . Simple build « Reply #8 on: 2020-08-06, 18:57:30 »

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Quote from: Magluvin on 2020-08-05, 01:40:26
He is setting the start point purposely far from the first plate. It is running on inertia to make it to the end.  I think if you were able to slow the vid down, we could see a slow down on its way past the first plate. Even if it were attracted more to the middle of the mass as you say, then to redo the test with say 50 plates, I believe it will be moving slower by the time it makes it to the middle. Its a typical Smot.  Generally anything like this you will see them have a starting point that is the prime mover area.  Lay out 100 plates, it may not make it to the middle.

Mags

Exactly Mags O0


---------------------------
"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."  Edmund Burke
   
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