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Author Topic: STEAP and the TPU  (Read 2307 times)

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The question of creating a plasma trapped by a magnetic field is always subject to the mean free paths of the particles, and the ability of the field to contain even particles that would tend to escape the field, through multiple collisions. A charged particle goes in a circular motion around the magnetic flux lines, and its motion parallel to the lines is only affected by an increase in the value of the magnetic field since this would cause the magnetic flux lines to come closer. When this happens, the particle is reflected. This configuration happens in the magnetosphere, the plasma around the earth trapped inside Earth's magnetic field eg. ( The Van Allen Radiation Belt ).
At atmospheric pressure, the particles undergo collisions in their motion around the magnetic flux lines, and each collision makes them "jump" from one "circle" to another, causing them to diffuse perpendicular to the magnetic field, and perpendicular to the ground core of our solenoids, a thing that was impossible without collisions because of the constraining property of the magnetic field. The electrons are not completely confined, their density in the region of containment is still orders of magnitude higher than outside that region, but may have been of concern when Steven Mark had a visit from the Nuclear agency in the USA.
 When particles are confined by a magnetic field, they circle in a characteristic radius equal to the gyroradius( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroradius )of that couple magnetic field/particle. Unless you have tremendously high magnetic fields, or impossibly small speeds ( to ignite a plasma, electrons need speed, or they recombine fast), this gyroradius will be a lot more than microns. This means, finally, that your particles are not at all contained by the magnetic field, but rather by the speed of the decay of the plasma, they will usually recombine faster than they will escape the field.
In the TPU application of plasma, this fast recombination is not the case, the Atmospheric Dielectric Plasma, or DBD, which is bi-temperature, non-equilibrium plasma, is a cold gas plasma. This plasma consumes a lot less energy than the hot plasma and has proven plasma lifetimes high enough to observe "balls" of plasma, drifting together with the gas flow (simple mechanical flow) until a few tenths of centimeters. These "balls" of plasma are mostly rich in radicals, i.e. species, created by the plasma, that "should not exist" in the neutral gas because they have very short lifetimes. These radicals are used in plasma chemistry, material transformation, and why it is used to treat anything that can be "treated" by such radicals.
I have shown in the TPU that the core of the solenoids is a plate of a capacitor “C1”, and that the inside surface of the solenoid coils is the other plate of “C1” (collector core is perpendicular to the solenoid coil, no induction, only capacitance). The way that the solenoid coils are connected to one another, a type of resonant delay line is created as the plasma on the surface of the dielectric passes through the solenoids. This delay creates movements of around a few Hz through the solenoids, this is the washboard effect that was talked about as movement felt within the TPU of Steven Mark.
See also   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetosphere_particle_motion

Regards

Mike 8)


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Attached is a clarification of the 1st post schematic which was revision 2.8. I have had emails concerning the C1 plate connected to the "A" drain.

Well, that was a representation of the plate, the plate is all the coils perpendicular to the core and the other plate is the core. This is very important for anyone to understand how this works, there is an infinite variable capacitance between the core and the inside of the coils.

Regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Thanks Mike,

This seems to infer that the collector/ground  is one "plate" ,the coils being the other .

Is the internal plate, collector and ground still a part of the topology?

One of them seems to have been deleted ...which makes more sense of the explanation.


It also fits with my burst of misunderstood success earlier.

What do think about using aluminum plate for the ground and would you suggest a closed ring or an open(cut) ring?

   

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Thanks Mike,

This seems to infer that the collector/ground  is one "plate" ,the coils being the other .

Is the internal plate, collector and ground still a part of the topology?

One of them seems to have been deleted ...which makes more sense of the explanation.


It also fits with my burst of misunderstood success earlier.

What do think about using aluminum plate for the ground and would you suggest a closed ring or an open(cut) ring?

The aluminum plate has been used, you only have seen SM's once, the speaker mounts, they get hot quickly.

You have to use the silicon insulated wire which will withstand 200c. The coils and core have to be this or it will not last long, the insulation will break down.

Wind your loop core and join the ends together, that is your TPU ground. The coils wound over the top are first a, then C, and last b.

The wire lengths get longer but the wound coil lengths are the same "they are ratios". The coils are center tapped if winding a large diameter Toroid, or the smaller diameter Toroid is a c b in one and a1 C1 b1 in the other and mounted on top of one another. Remember all coils are wound in the same direction, there are no bucking coils.

All coi connections must not be too close to the core connections or YOU WILL HAVE ARC Over.

The plasma forms between the inside of the coils and the outside of the core.

Typing on my phone as away this morning, back later

Regards

Mike  8)



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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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Attached is the wire to be used, 14 awg

Regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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The wire lengths get longer but the wound coil lengths are the same "they are ratios". The coils are center tapped if winding a large diameter Toroid, or the smaller diameter Toroid is a c b in one and a1 C1 b1 in the other and mounted on top of one another. Remember all coils are wound in the same direction, there are no bucking coils.
The naming of the order of the windings (a, c, b) is new information for me, Mike. Now I have another question (see picture: Start means the beginning of the winding.): How did you arrange the small toroids on top of each other? According to variation 1 or variation 2? Or does that not matter in your opinion?

Thx Toni
   

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The naming of the order of the windings (a, c, b) is new information for me, Mike. Now I have another question (see picture: Start means the beginning of the winding.): How did you arrange the small toroids on top of each other? According to variation 1 or variation 2? Or does that not matter in your opinion?

Thx Toni

Top, you have to think of a and a1 are continuations of the a coil.

The lowest frequency is the closest to the core, the fastest "B" is on the outside. It is one thing that SM stipulated as is the triggering of the Mosfets.

Regards

Mike  8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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While I'm at it, C2 capacitance on my unit is 22nF, C1 is 416pF, C1 voltage should be Around 11000v, source of "B" is around 200v. to ground.

Regards

Mike  8)
« Last Edit: 2021-11-27, 17:16:05 by Centraflow »


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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[bThe naming of the order of the windings (a, c, b) is new information for me, Mike][/b]

I don't think so, they are CCW around as shown by SM, see attached

Regards

Mike 8)



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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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Let me explain the two different TPU sizes.

The 15" of SM has a continuous a a1 with a center tapping, the same with b b1 and c c1.

The smaller TPU which powered the TV etc has a c and b in the top toroid and a1 c1 and b1 in the bottom, but they are connected top to bottom as though they were center-tapped continuous coils, so the join is the center tap.

The only difference between the two is saving space, and the larger one was probably two TPUs, one on top of the other, and why there were two CMCs and not one as charge inductors.

Regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Hey Mike,

I’ve just cleaned up my lab after it being used as a safe haven storage during this separation from my ex girlfriend.  Fired up my switching circuit and added some mods for easier tuning.  I’m back.   8)

Thanks for being here.

Dave
   
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While I'm at it, C2 capacitance on my unit is 22nF, C1 is 416pF, C1 voltage should be Around 11000v, source of "B" is around 200v. to ground.

Regards

Mike  8)

I think I have this all right  but with 11KV (c1) which will be sitting across the mosfets how can  they survive?
Do you recommend any particular device here?
My project right now is using the Basic tpu with 2 frequencies .
waiting for yet more silicone wire and I dont want to unwind anything yet .
But 1 internal ground does concur with the paper drawings .
Thank you
   

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It's not sitting across any mosfet, that's the point, the maximum in my case is around 200v. C1 when the "B" mosfet is On, is in series with C2, the center is a voltage divider, the voltage there is only 200v. If there was no C2 then yes you would fry your B mosfet.

The current at the mosfet is minimal, and the On voltage for A and C is 200v+_. The OFF voltage at the drain of A and C will be 400v supplying into the resonant circuit, now you can see where the HV across the C1 capacitor comes from.

The voltage will build up to this level in a couple of seconds, and why no load is connected on start up. If you don't build up the voltage you will not have the plasma level required for excess energy, now this is probably the Kick SM talked about, if you do not have it it will not work.

I hope you understand, C2 is critical to the working of this.

Welcome back Dave, you have some catching up to do.

Regards

Mike  8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Yes makes sense , I was just confused by the 11kv as a  measured value ...its not ever allowed to rise to that  because its is being bled off by b mosfet at a slightly later time ,the end of the delay line .

I see that the only real current is charging the supply choke and of course the bleed off that is not ever directly  from the supply but the voltage build up ...Genius !

This must be what SM called Catalyst, tiny little controlled lightning strikes.

This whole energy source thing seems  easier for me to rationalize when you know that the work is to create an artificial  environment for millions of tiny lightning strikes.

I think that most experimenters will use 2 x 9v batteries in series for the 2 switching supplies .

Then have to justify why the batteries are irrelevant to the layman.

Some good bench time ahead now .

   

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Yes makes sense , I was just confused by the 11kv as a  measured value ...its not ever allowed to rise to that  because its is being bled off by b mosfet at a slightly later time ,the end of the delay line .

I see that the only real current is charging the supply choke and of course the bleed off that is not ever directly  from the supply but the voltage build up ...Genius !

This must be what SM called Catalyst, tiny little controlled lightning strikes.

This whole energy source thing seems  easier for me to rationalize when you know that the work is to create an artificial  environment for millions of tiny lightning strikes.

I think that most experimenters will use 2 x 9v batteries in series for the 2 switching supplies .

Then have to justify why the batteries are irrelevant to the layman.

Some good bench time ahead now .

Lindsay

I did not measure the 11kv, I have nothing to measure that voltage :D but it is easy to calculate. C1 and C2 are "sort of" in series and the center voltage is around 200v. We know the capacitance of C1 and C2 so we can find the voltage within C1.

I use an online calculator, I'm lazy these days :)

One thing is though C1 is not a normal capacitor, so that 11kv might not be accurate, don't try to measure it. I started by using a fairly high value for C2, 8uF and the voltage was way down. By reducing the value the voltage started rising, until I reach the value I have now.

Feeding back 200v to charge the choke then gives you that 200v discharge plus the 200v from the C3 cap, giving a total of 400v+- input to the LRC. The problem with the calculations is they will not take into consideration the fact that the capacitance of C1 has infinite nodes along the length of the solenoid coils.

That just might be SM's little lightening discharges which you say, I did not know that, but it does make sense, though it is a barrier discharge. (DBD) not a break down such as an arc.

Lunch time here

Regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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I am an RF person for many years, and I have talked about class E amplifiers because of their simplicity.

There is in audio the class D amplifier as well, they are similar but class E only uses one Mosfet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class-D_amplifier

I do not think SM specifically was inventing a power generator, he was in the audio business, and as so he probably stumbled on the "TPU"

If you look at how you can make an induction heater with two Mosfets, two charge chokes, a coil, and some capacitors, it will also give you an insight.

The unique thing about the TPU is the C1 capacitance.

On another point, for those using DDS signal generators, make sure that the rising edge of the two channels are in sync. Whatever I do with mine in the past, I could not get them to rise at exactly the same time, just using the sg. >:(

Regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Great points Mike,

My fy8300 has this bug also with phase ..cheap crap ok ,a lot for the money though.

If you go into the phase menu on any channel as if to try to adjust it ,it rights itself until you change any other value .

As long as you activate the phase setting without even adjusting the phase they sync up again.
Usable but highly annoying

the jds6600 is probably the same

if under pc control you just need to move phase slider any amount and the same fix occurs but as you would know there are many runtime errors with this interface.

Most annoying but saving the setting seems to keep it on reboot. but not from other memory locations.
This probably should not be in this thread but i know there are a few here with the 8300

A well shielded dedicated micro controller will be the go as experiments move forward.

Brian Collins the fake inventor revealed to me that the tv set unit was started in another room ( where the controller was)

once started it can be kept going with methods we are yet .to discover.
   

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High Lindsay

I did not think of the computer interphase, when I have time I will try it, thanks for that. It can make a real mess of your testing.

Regards

Mike  8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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What is the approximate value of the charge choke.
The value surely affects resonance?
   

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What is the approximate value of the charge choke.
The value surely affects resonance?

Mine is 1.25mH. If it was a class E modulated amplifier where you were driving the MOSFET at the frequency desired then you would have to take it into consideration, but here the only consideration is the charge time at the frequency used to reach saturation, in other words, DUTY. The natural resonant frequency of the "TPU" will take place whether you are driving the MOSFET with 1kHz or 10kHz with a square pulse, (a square pulse is made up of an infinite number of frequencies. What is ideal is to drive the MOSFET at near some low harmonic frequency of this resonance.

The TPU is made up of inductance and capacitance but in an unusual way, the resonance is a means of creating high voltage which is partly fed back to create an extremely high voltage across the C1 capacitance. This creates a "dielectric" plasma that is highly reactive, electrons are stripped and converted into ions and vice versa during relaxation time, this is where I think the extra energy is absorbed.

The length of the TPU (coils) is connected like a delay line, note the attached and the zero point crossing.

Regards

Mike 8)

If say your resonant frequency was 1MHz then a "good choice" would be 5kHz or 10kHz they are sub-harmonics.


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Is there a strategy for starting up?

I have all the right things happening as far as timing goes .

If the supply voltage is above 50v Mosfet c fries itself .

Would it be correct to start with lower voltage and wait for a build up or is it full 200v on the charge cap?

I have  some voltage pumping at 7.8 hz (a and c ) difference which follows the frequency  right down to .05hz difference.

It seems that when the ringing begins to  sound interesting there is a chattering followed by click sound  and silence ..... a blown fet .

It was along day ,probably a fresh start with a clear head will help here but if you have any pointers for bringing this up slowly, let me know all of us will face this at some point.

Resonance of c1   a to ground  is 1.12mhz .

If i use a large value 10mli h CMC it needs a much higher supply voltage .
2mh and the boost converter begins operating at a much lower voltage which seemed counter intuitive

 



   

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Is there a strategy for starting up?

I have all the right things happening as far as timing goes .

If the supply voltage is above 50v Mosfet c fries itself .

Would it be correct to start with lower voltage and wait for a build up or is it full 200v on the charge cap?

I have  some voltage pumping at 7.8 hz (a and c ) difference which follows the frequency  right down to .05hz difference.

It seems that when the ringing begins to  sound interesting there is a chattering followed by click sound  and silence ..... a blown fet .

It was along day ,probably a fresh start with a clear head will help here but if you have any pointers for bringing this up slowly, let me know all of us will face this at some point.

Resonance of c1   a to ground  is 1.12mhz .

If i use a large value 10mli h CMC it needs a much higher supply voltage .
2mh and the boost converter begins operating at a much lower voltage which seemed counter intuitive

High Lindsay

Don't try feeding back until everything is known to be running correctly.

Start with a 12v feed and check the voltage at C3

Reduce the duty cycles of "A" and "C" at the same ratios, I take it you are using 8.3% for "A" and 16.6% for "C"!! they may be too high for the chokes and the frequencies you are using. start by using 2% for "A",  4% for "C" and make sure with your scope that "C" does not switch OFF late.

Sounds to me that one of the problems is "C" Mosfet for some reason is still ON when the "A" Mosfet is OFF, this is a RED EYE situation with all the discharge of "A" being shorted across the "C" Mosfet :D
The solution is to shorten the duty of "C" so that it is OFF a few nanoseconds before "A" turns OFF. There must be a delay somewhere in your circuit for "C" to turn OFF late.  The rising edge is OK but the OFF timing is a duty problem, I hope you see what I'm getting at.

Take little steps, don't rush it now after all this time ;)

Regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

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@ Lindsay

What ringing? or was it a whistle? Once running correctly I can feel like a low-frequency bumping, and a very very slight hum, which could be vibration on my Formica bench, which I presume is the washboard effect that was coined.

Regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

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@ web000x

Dave, I know you are in an advanced stage of the build, take heed on what I have said to Lindsay over the duty of the Mosfets and especially the OFF timing of "C" in relation to "A", or RED EYE TIME.

Regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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If you look at the duty and sequence diagram, you will see that "B" comes ON twice, the second time just before "C" switches ON for the second time, it is for a reason, and that reason is to extract the energy from the C1 capacitance as much as possible if it does not remove "most" of the energy then again there is a RED eye situation. "B" has to be synced correctly.

As I always say, TIMING IS EVERYTHING :)

Regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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