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Author Topic: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications.  (Read 46642 times)
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img  Itsu
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #232 on: 2023-06-22, 21:24:41 »


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So i added one of my older kacher secondaries to the Grenade / Inductor / Antenna.

I will do some measurements to see how any kacher signal will be received by the Grenade etc.

Itsu


------------------------
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #233 on: 2023-06-22, 22:46:19 »


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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-22, 21:24:41
So i added one of my older kacher secondaries to the Grenade / Inductor / Antenna.

I will do some measurements to see how any kacher signal will be received by the Grenade etc.

Itsu


  Itsu: it would be good to add the same type of TC primary coil, as your antenna has. Any thing that looks that good, just has to work.
And also, that the TC secondary coil should also be tuned to the right working frequency, as well, once we know what that frequency is.

   NickZ
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #234 on: 2023-06-22, 23:14:56 »


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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-22, 16:39:37
Nick,

i agree, it does not make sense to me either.

We have Stalker who never showed a self runner, but who makes many videos about all kind of methods to measure resonances, standing waves, constructing Grenades, etc. and we have Ruslan who did show several self runners, but who preaches to not make it too complicated by showing a simple straightforward Grenade, mentions resonance is in the Inductor only (resonance to match the push-pull frequency) and to use a simple (non-interrupted) kacher.

Who / what to follow?

Itsu

The one who claims to have a self runner, especially if self-running can be proven.

What did Ruslan mean when he used the term "resonance"?
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #235 on: 2023-06-23, 03:48:35 »


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   Grumps:
   Good question.  I assume that Ruslan means that the inductor coil needs to be at its best resonant point, compared to the frequency provided by the push pull circuit. So, capacitors like 2000 volt wima caps 0.47uf are used in series with the yokes 3 turn coil circuit to further tune the inductor to optimum resonance. Yet the same goes for the grenade output coil, as it also uses 2000v 0.15uf wima caps to tune it's output to best resonanse, also. Although Ruslan stated at one point that 10uf caps are used at the grenade output, instead.
So, take your pick...
  I know this is all hard to get a grasp on. And there are more than one version of these devices as well. As each self runner is different, and running at different resonant frequencies, also. That is part of the confusion.

   NickZ
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #236 on: 2023-06-26, 09:16:58 »


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I put a 5 turn primary on the Kacher and exited it with a square wave from my FG sweeping a frequency range to detect the several resonances.

1. With the scope probe not connected, but close to the top Kacher secondary (no gizmo or antenna connected), i find a single resonance at 2765kHz (the unloaded kacher secondary only resonance).
2. With the scope probe not connected, but close to the antenna (so gizmo and antenna connected), i find a single resonance at 1420kHz (the unloaded kacher secondary / Antenna resonance).
3. With the scope probe attached to the Grenade ends, i find 2 resonance points at 1334kHz (the now slightly loaded kacher secondary / Antenna resonance) and one at 1782kHz (the loaded (by scope  probe) Grenade resonance).

So there is a hugh difference in resonance frequency with or without the gizmo plus antenna connected (gizmo is the opposing coils on the ferrite rod in between the secondary and antenna)

This all is with the secondary kacher start lead attached to ground (FG ground lead).

To have both resonance matched, i need to either lower the Grenade resonance point, or increase the kacher secondary resonance point.

I will try to increase the kacher resonance first.


Itsu
------------------------
kacher grenade inductor antenna small.png
* kacher grenade inductor antenna small.png (1125.94 kB, 1008x756 - viewed 117 times.)
« Last Edit: 2023-06-26, 20:12:42 by Itsu »
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #237 on: 2023-06-26, 11:27:52 »


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Enjoy your trek through life but leave no tracks
Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-26, 09:16:58
I put a 5 turn primary on the Kacher and exited it with a square wave from my FG sweeping a frequency range to detect the several resonances.

With the scope probe not connected, but close to the antenna, i find a single resonance at 1420kHz (the unloaded kacher secondary / Antenna resonance).
With the scope probe attached to the Grenade ends, i find 2 resonance points at 1334kHz (the now slightly loaded kacher secondary / Antenna resonance) and one at 1782kHz (the loaded (by scope  probe) Grenade resonance).


This is with the secondary kacher start lead attached to ground (FG ground lead).

To have both resonance matched, i need to either lower the Grenade resonance point, or increase the kacher secondary resonance point.

I will try to increase the kacher resonance first.


Itsu any chance you can show any of your grenade output wave forms, it should self oscillate the Chinese one does it beautifully!
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #238 on: 2023-06-26, 11:54:48 »


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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-26, 09:16:58
I put a 5 turn primary on the Kacher and exited it with a square wave from my FG sweeping a frequency range to detect the several resonances.

With the scope probe not connected, but close to the antenna, i find a single resonance at 1420kHz (the unloaded kacher secondary / Antenna resonance).
With the scope probe attached to the Grenade ends, i find 2 resonance points at 1334kHz (the now slightly loaded kacher secondary / Antenna resonance) and one at 1782kHz (the loaded (by scope  probe) Grenade resonance).


This is with the secondary kacher start lead attached to ground (FG ground lead).

To have both resonance matched, i need to either lower the Grenade resonance point, or increase the kacher secondary resonance point.

I will try to increase the kacher resonance first.


Itsu

Itsu,
 What a beautiful setting you have here.
Please, what's are you looking for in the experiment.

Maxolous
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #239 on: 2023-06-26, 13:28:48 »
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Below is a combined translation of two papers by Alexander Abramovich on his theory regarding the Karnaukhov generator.  This may or may not be of any interest but I've seen no mention of his work here.  He claims there is gain in the push-pull circuit along with the grenade thus when combined make for large gains.  Perhaps some insight may be gained from his work.

Regards,
Pm
------------------------
* Karnaukhova Generator Pt1.pdf (2102.3 kB - downloaded 51 times.)
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #240 on: 2023-06-26, 16:47:31 »


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Quote from: Maxolous on 2023-06-26, 11:54:48
Itsu,
 What a beautiful setting you have here.
Please, what's are you looking for in the experiment.

Maxolous

Thanks Max.

I am looking to match the Grenade self resonance with the Kacher secondary / antenna resonance, preferable around 2MHz.

Itsu
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #241 on: 2023-06-26, 16:49:17 »


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Quote from: partzman on 2023-06-26, 13:28:48
Below is a combined translation of two papers by Alexander Abramovich on his theory regarding the Karnaukhov generator.  This may or may not be of any interest but I've seen no mention of his work here.  He claims there is gain in the push-pull circuit along with the grenade thus when combined make for large gains.  Perhaps some insight may be gained from his work.

Regards,
Pm

Thanks Partzman,

i have seen that paper before, not sure when or when, but i think it deserves to be studied here again.

Regards Itsu
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #242 on: 2023-06-26, 20:02:04 »


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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-26, 16:47:31
Thanks Max.

I am looking to match the Grenade self resonance with the Kacher secondary / antenna resonance, preferable around 2MHz.

Itsu

This can be achieved in several ways and one of the ways is attached.
Just a quick one , am on the road .

Set up this.

Find the minimum amplitude on scope . That's your resonance frequency at that kacher wire length, you can bring it down to your choice frequency while the grenade is inside your ant.
Bringing it down mean cutting wire length.
Regards

Maxolous
------------------------
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #243 on: 2023-06-26, 20:12:37 »


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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-26, 16:47:31
Thanks Max.

preferable around 2MHz.

Itsu

@2MHZ your wire will be grossly reduced to short coil of not more than 5 inches in length. Especially if using 0.8mm for kacher sec. It will be better to use 1.5mm if you are resonating at that frequency.

Maxolous
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #244 on: 2023-06-26, 20:15:42 »


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Thanks Max,

i will use some shorter secondary coils i already have lying around first.

By the way, i edited my post above with the found resonance points, as i added the resonance frequency of the kacher secondary WITHOUT the gizmo and antenna attached (2765kHz).

Itsu
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #245 on: 2023-06-26, 20:21:24 »


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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-26, 16:47:31
Thanks Max.

I am looking to match the Grenade self resonance with the Kacher secondary

Itsu

Itsu,
Preferably, match the kacher sec to grenade self resonance.
Maybe we meant the same thing.

Maxolous
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #247 on: 2023-06-26, 20:47:00 »


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Yes Max, we mean the same thing  :)


Anyway, i tried 3 different kacher secondaries, varying between 394uH, 475uH and 685uH, and their self resonance points are varying between 2765, 3000 and 3100kHz, but they all behave similarly when attached to the gizmo plus antenna.

With other words, they all 3 have a self resonance point when attached to the gizmo plus antenna of around 1430kHz with the Grenade still resonating around 1780kHz.

So it seems the gizmo plus antenna has a major influence on the kacher secondary and determines for the most part the resonance frequency of this Kacher secondary.

I therefor think that further adjusting (decreasing the number of turns) the kacher secondary is of little use here.

Itsu
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #248 on: 2023-06-26, 21:01:37 »


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Enjoy your trek through life but leave no tracks
Itsu so your Tesla coil and your grenade are the same frequency, oh but still no magic
after 12 odd years strange isn't it how we see things we think have no meaning
and sweep them under the carpet. Still why change the habit of a life time.

Nothing personal intended and I sincerely wish you and Nick all the best  O0

regards Sil
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #249 on: 2023-06-26, 21:19:08 »


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Quote from: Maxolous on 2023-06-26, 20:02:04
This can be achieved in several ways and one of the ways is attached.
Just a quick one , am on the road .

Set up this.

Find the minimum amplitude on scope . That's your resonance frequency at that kacher wire length, you can bring it down to your choice frequency while the grenade is inside your ant.
Bringing it down mean cutting wire length.
Regards

Maxolous


Max,

i tried your method and found the resonance points of my 3 secondaries plus gizmo and Antenna (without Grenade / Inductor) to be:

394uH = 1799kHz
475uH = 1698kHz
685uH = 1409kHz

So again, all 3 secondary self resonance points are lowered considerably by adding the gizmo plus antenna.

But when adding the Grenade / Inductor, these resonance frequencies will decrease till the earlier mentioned 1430kHz or so.

Itsu
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #250 on: 2023-06-26, 22:13:21 »


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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-26, 21:19:08

Max,

i tried your method and found the resonance points of my 3 secondaries plus gizmo and Antenna (without Grenade / Inductor) to be:

394uH = 1799kHz
475uH = 1698kHz
685uH = 1409kHz

So again, all 3 secondary self resonance points are lowered considerably by adding the gizmo plus antenna.

But when adding the Grenade / Inductor, these resonance frequencies will decrease till the earlier mentioned 1430kHz or so.

Itsu

Itsu,
Good try.
1. You don't need the kacher pry or in your word inductor on it.
2.  Let you antenna and shinyaga, in your word Gizmo be in place
3.   Let your grenade be inside your antenna
4.  Your antenna should have up to 3cm clearance from grenade.
5. Set your SG to 20V
6.  Short grenade inductor
7. You're looking for were the applitude is at minimum as your resonance frequency.
8. Your kacher sec is not fixed, adjust by cutting or reducing wire to match what frequency you want.
9. When done, you can use your kacher circuit to confirm the resonance frequency by hanging scope probe 20cm from antenna.

Regards
Maxolous
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #251 on: 2023-06-26, 22:36:42 »


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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-26, 20:47:00

Yes Max, we mean the same thing  :)


Anyway, i tried 3 different kacher secondaries, varying between 394uH, 475uH and 685uH, and their self resonance points are varying between 2765, 3000 and 3100kHz, but they all behave similarly when attached to the gizmo plus antenna.


Itsu.
I missed this, I went to last page before noticing this

Was the grenade in operation at that time you carried out the test.

Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-26, 20:47:00

With other words, they all 3 have a self resonance point when attached to the gizmo plus antenna of around 1430kHz with the Grenade still resonating around 1780kHz.

You force it to resonate at your dictated frequency by adjusting wire length of your kacher sec

Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-26, 20:47:00

So it seems the gizmo plus antenna has a major influence on the kacher secondary and determines for the most part the resonance frequency of this Kacher secondary.

I don't think so, they are supposed to be slave to kacher sec. If kacher sec is forceful enough. In this case, I see the push-pull was on. Mind you, the SG only output 2OWatts in most cases.

Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-26, 20:47:00

I therefor think that further adjusting (decreasing the number of turns) the kacher secondary is of little use here.

Itsu

It will matter when it has enough pumping power. Just put the grenade there, don't power it.

Regards

Maxolous
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #252 on: 2023-06-27, 09:03:16 »


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Max.

Quote
Was the grenade in operation at that time you carried out the test.

not sure what you mean by this, my Grenade / Inductor was NOT in operation, they are just there with open leads.


Quote
You force it to resonate at your dictated frequency by adjusting wire length of your kacher sec

Well, before i am cutting up any of my secondaries, i just tried 3 different length ones i have to see how they perform.


Quote
I don't think so, they are supposed to be slave to kacher sec. If kacher sec is forceful enough. In this case, I see the push-pull was on. Mind you, the SG only output 2OWatts in most cases.

so they suppose to, but my measurement shows otherwise. Not sure what you mean by "I see the push-pull was on" as i do not have any push-pull circuitry active.


Quote
It will matter when it has enough pumping power. Just put the grenade there, don't power it.

more power exiting the kacher does not change its resonance frequency IMO


Itsu
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #253 on: 2023-06-27, 09:27:02 »


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Quote from: Maxolous on 2023-06-26, 22:13:21
Itsu,
Good try.
1. You don't need the kacher pry or in your word inductor on it.
2.  Let you antenna and shinyaga, in your word Gizmo be in place
3.   Let your grenade be inside your antenna
4.  Your antenna should have up to 3cm clearance from grenade.
5. Set your SG to 20V
6.  Short grenade inductor
7. You're looking for were the applitude is at minimum as your resonance frequency.
8. Your kacher sec is not fixed, adjust by cutting or reducing wire to match what frequency you want.
9. When done, you can use your kacher circuit to confirm the resonance frequency by hanging scope probe 20cm from antenna.

Regards
Maxolous


Max,

Looking at your drawing, i just followed that, so NO Kacher Primary, NO Grenade / Inductor, just the Kacher secondary plus gizmo plus antenna connected.



Quote
1. You don't need the kacher pry or in your word inductor on it.

no PRY (Primary) or Inductor present, see my first sentence above


Quote
2.  Let you antenna and shinyaga, in your word Gizmo be in place

Antenna and gizmo are in place, see my first sentence above


Quote
3.   Let your grenade be inside your antenna

that's not what your drawing shows


Quote
4.  Your antenna should have up to 3cm clearance from grenade.

that's not what your drawing shows


Quote
5. Set your SG to 20V

why? more power does not change any resonance point


Quote
6.  Short grenade inductor

that's not what your drawing shows


Quote
7. You're looking for were the applitude is at minimum as your resonance frequency.

I did, as that is what's written on your drawing


Quote
8. Your kacher sec is not fixed, adjust by cutting or reducing wire to match what frequency you want.

I doubt if that would work as i showed before that the length of the kacher has little influence on the resonance frequency when attached to the Antenna


Quote
9. When done, you can use your kacher circuit to confirm the resonance frequency by hanging scope probe 20cm from antenna.

Thats what i did.



Firsts test was done WITH Grenade and Inductor installed (inside the antenna) then i noticed in your drawing that there was no Grenade / Inductor so i removed them.

But this first test result was that the minimum amplitude (resonance point) on the 3 used secondaries was similar as mentioned earlier, all 3 around 1400kHz (1209, 1450 and 1568kHz).
So again, it looks like the Antenna dictates the resonance frequency of the kacher.

I will redo your method later today using the Grenade / Inductor inside the Antenna, short the Grenade (Inductor too?) and use full voltage (20V) on my FG
 
Regards Itsu
------------------------
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #254 on: 2023-06-27, 11:39:26 »


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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-27, 09:27:02

Max,

Looking at your drawing, i just followed that, so NO Kacher Primary, NO Grenade / Inductor, just the Kacher secondary plus gizmo plus antenna connected.



no PRY (Primary) or Inductor present, see my first sentence above


Antenna and gizmo are in place, see my first sentence above


that's not what your drawing shows


that's not what your drawing shows


why? more power does not change any resonance point


that's not what your drawing shows


I did, as that is what's written on your drawing


I doubt if that would work as i showed before that the length of the kacher has little influence on the resonance frequency when attached to the Antenna


Thats what i did.



Firsts test was done WITH Grenade and Inductor installed (inside the antenna) then i noticed in your drawing that there was no Grenade / Inductor so i removed them.

But this first test result was that the minimum amplitude (resonance point) on the 3 used secondaries was similar as mentioned earlier, all 3 around 1400kHz (1209, 1450 and 1568kHz).
So again, it looks like the Antenna dictates the resonance frequency of the kacher.

I will redo your method later today using the Grenade / Inductor inside the Antenna, short the Grenade (Inductor too?) and use full voltage (20V) on my FG
 
Regards Itsu

Itsu,

Drawing with grenade and inductor inside might be cumbersome. That was why I explained it.

The test always work, except your 3 Tesla coils secondary are relatively close in windings.

Okay, try again.

Maxolous
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #254 on: 2023-06-27, 11:39:26 »


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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-27, 09:27:02

Max,

Looking at your drawing, i just followed that, so NO Kacher Primary, NO Grenade / Inductor, just the Kacher secondary plus gizmo plus antenna connected.



no PRY (Primary) or Inductor present, see my first sentence above


Antenna and gizmo are in place, see my first sentence above


that's not what your drawing shows


that's not what your drawing shows


why? more power does not change any resonance point


that's not what your drawing shows


I did, as that is what's written on your drawing


I doubt if that would work as i showed before that the length of the kacher has little influence on the resonance frequency when attached to the Antenna


Thats what i did.



Firsts test was done WITH Grenade and Inductor installed (inside the antenna) then i noticed in your drawing that there was no Grenade / Inductor so i removed them.

But this first test result was that the minimum amplitude (resonance point) on the 3 used secondaries was similar as mentioned earlier, all 3 around 1400kHz (1209, 1450 and 1568kHz).
So again, it looks like the Antenna dictates the resonance frequency of the kacher.

I will redo your method later today using the Grenade / Inductor inside the Antenna, short the Grenade (Inductor too?) and use full voltage (20V) on my FG
 
Regards Itsu

Itsu,

Drawing with grenade and inductor inside might be cumbersome. That was why I explained it.

The test always work, except your 3 Tesla coils secondary are relatively close in windings.

Okay, try again.

Maxolous
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #256 on: 2023-06-28, 00:10:48 »


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Enjoy your trek through life but leave no tracks
Max It looks like Itsu is pulsing his device with HF AC excuse me but that wont work
and your wasting your time if it is.


Sil
   
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #257 on: 2023-06-28, 07:03:17 »


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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-27, 21:37:17
Ok, i redid the test Max suggested, now using the Grenade with Inductor inside the Antenna etc. see picture.

Both Grenade and Inductor leads are shorted, and we are using no Kacher Primary.

FG was set to sine wave 20Vpp

I used my 475uH secondary and removed half of its turns and wound the top part of this secondary with wider space between windings, see picture.

This showed that after a few adjustments, i now have a minimum (dip) amplitude at 1899kHz which is close to my Grenade resonance frequency.

I now can easily further lower (fine tune) this resonance frequency by inserting a ferrite rod into the secondary.

So next is to reinstall the kacher primary, remove the shorts from the Grenade and Inductor and see if i have one single resonance peak while measuring the Grenade response.

Itsu

Nice one Itsu,

It seems to me that your kacher secondary gauge is like  0.8mm which is normal. But when expecting to res at high freq. , It is advisable to select higher wire thickness. Then you wouldn't need this spacing you just did on your kacher sec.

Maxolous
   
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