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Author Topic: Holcomb and other FE technology debate  (Read 49802 times)
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From F6FLT
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Yes, it's hard to get your head around it, and there are technical inconsistencies in what is said in the patents.
The assignee of the last patent you cited is "Redemptive Technologies Ltd", but you can see that it is also the applicant and there it says "Road Town , Tortola ( VG ) ; Robert Ray Holcomb , Road Town , Tortola ( VG )". The assignee is Holcomb.
All the information we have on his systems comes only from Holcomb. This is not reassuring.
- no third party involved in his case
- only three people on their team
- a multitude of details in the patents without presentation of a general guiding idea
- conditioning speech with lots of references and images of a green world without pollution
- a claimed source of energy, the spin of unpaired electrons, without any explanation of the causal links that would prove it and make the difference with a conventional system

Holcomb's action is easy to understand from the perspective of another businessman/inventor like myself...

First, the goal of a patent, disclosure or the company is to protect there investment and interests. It's not to help you understand the technology so you can build your own or steal the technology and your a liability. If you were actually smart enough to figure out how all this works and told everyone you would destroy there company. All there decades of hard work and the potential of more research is at risk because you want to tell everyone.

I mean, if everyone knew how it works and could build and replicate the technology why would they buy any of holcombs products?. In fact I have seen countless losers in the forums who stole others work and tried to patent it so they could profit at the expense of the real inventor. Not only did these people steal the technology but also gaslighted the real inventor and spread misinformation to discredit them. So the real inventors need to take care to protect all there hard work and interests.

So why would anyone share anything?. Most real inventors share just enough to help others understand the concept so they can make some progress. Not enough to understand everything and become the inventors competition and a threat but just enough to learn and make some progress. So of course the information given will always be vague or incomplete. The onus is on everyone else to rise to the occasion not for the inventor to lower themselves to others level.

Here's another kicker, many want the technology but aren't willing to change there beliefs or perspective to get it. They want the technology but also want to cling to the past and outdated ideals/beliefs contrary to the purpose of the technology to move forward conceptually and intellectually. As we know this is equivalent to giving a caveman advanced weapons which no intelligent inventor should ever agree to. An intelligent inventor understands it would only be a matter of time before the technology was used against them or the one's they care about, it is inevitable.

For example, the imbeciles who built nuclear weapons will be just as dead as everyone else if anyone is ever stupid enough to use these weapons. Vladimir Putin recently claimed he would start a nuclear war if he was personally threatened or his interests. Imagine that, one petty weak minded man just threatened to destroy all of mankind as we know it if he's threatened or doesn't get his way. This is the ultimate danger whenever scientists and inventors give imbeciles advanced technology.

AC
 



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I take comfort in the fact there are people magnitudes more intelligent than I could ever be developing new technology I will probably never understand. It proves evolution works...
   

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From F6FLT
Holcomb's action is easy to understand from the perspective of another businessman/inventor like myself...

First, the goal of a patent, disclosure or the company is to protect there investment and interests. It's not to help you understand the technology so you can build your own or steal the technology and your a liability. If you were actually smart enough to figure out how all this works and told everyone you would destroy there company. All there decades of hard work and the potential of more research is at risk because you want to tell everyone.

I mean, if everyone knew how it works and could build and replicate the technology why would they buy any of holcombs products?. In fact I have seen countless losers in the forums who stole others work and tried to patent it so they could profit at the expense of the real inventor. Not only did these people steal the technology but also gaslighted the real inventor and spread misinformation to discredit them. So the real inventors need to take care to protect all there hard work and interests.

So why would anyone share anything?. Most real inventors share just enough to help others understand the concept so they can make some progress. Not enough to understand everything and become the inventors competition and a threat but just enough to learn and make some progress. So of course the information given will always be vague or incomplete. The onus is on everyone else to rise to the occasion not for the inventor to lower themselves to others level.

Here's another kicker, many want the technology but aren't willing to change there beliefs or perspective to get it. They want the technology but also want to cling to the past and outdated ideals/beliefs contrary to the purpose of the technology to move forward conceptually and intellectually. As we know this is equivalent to giving a caveman advanced weapons which no intelligent inventor should ever agree to. An intelligent inventor understands it would only be a matter of time before the technology was used against them or the one's they care about, it is inevitable.

For example, the imbeciles who built nuclear weapons will be just as dead as everyone else if anyone is ever stupid enough to use these weapons. Vladimir Putin recently claimed he would start a nuclear war if he was personally threatened or his interests. Imagine that, one petty weak minded man just threatened to destroy all of mankind as we know it if he's threatened or doesn't get his way. This is the ultimate danger whenever scientists and inventors give imbeciles advanced technology.

AC

Yes, that puts a very sobering light on it.

Mike


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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AC,

I have a little different perspective on this.  Holding a patent as an individual or small company means nothing.  I speak from experience.  If you for example have FE technology, trying to protect it from the powers that be is impossible via such means! 

There is only one solution.  It must be given away.  Yes, given away freely.  Does the inventor stand to loose, absolutely.  Does mankind stand to benefit, absolutely. 

So, one must decide what action to take if he/she posses such technology!

regards,
Pm
   
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Dr. Holcomb (MD) has a long and distinguished history of progressive invention in magnetics development, including medical applications and "excess energy" generation. Many of his patents are considered by some to be "reference text books" on the subject as they contain a wealth of in-depth, detailed, information. This may well be due to his use of modern Computer Aided Engineering as seen, for example, in WO2011/067636 Stand-alone electric power generation unit (2009) where it is stated:

"One of the embodiments from application number PCT/IB2010/001693 - "Decreased Drag Electric Machine with Dual Stator and Distributed High Flux Density Slot Rotor Pairs" was modeled using Maxwell 2-D computer software to determine the efficiency based on analysis of kinetic energy input onto the shaft of the generator and energy output by the generator. The power output to power consumption ratio is 6.8:1."

Like many other inventors, Dr. Holcomb faced an ongoing battle to secure patents on his inventions when "excess energy" was the result; as well as the multitude of typical other problems. This is clearly seen when reviewing their submission chronololgy.

Technical analysis of Dr. Holcomb's patents, although complex at best, is relatively straight forward when approached from a CAE design varification prospective. An attached pdf, for what it's worth, contains several "highlight notes" regarding his recent submission:

WO 2021/063522 A1  A UNIQUE METHOD OF HARNESSING ENERGY FROM THE MAGNETIC DOMAINS FOUND IN FERROMAGNETIC AND PARAMAGNETIC MATERIALS

Does it function as claimed? - no comment... except to say a local Validation Lab seems to think so!
( https://www.dnv.com/index.html )

   
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...
I mean, if everyone knew how it works and could build and replicate the technology why would they buy any of holcombs products?
...

because you can only do so with Holcomb's permission, most likely subject to paying him royalties.

A patent is an agreement between civil society and an inventor: the inventor makes his invention available to the community, and in return his intellectual paternity is recognized and his commercial interests are guaranteed.

The vast majority of patents in the industry are perfectly reproducible from the information provided.
The discourse seeking to justify the non-reproducibility of patents makes no sense, it is conspiracy theories, especially in free energy, aiming to explain why patents of miraculous inventions fail to be built. The explanation is much simpler: the inventor's machine has never worked, it is only a means to attract investors, or to satisfy the ego of psychotic inventors.


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@partzman

Why do you think companies protect their inventions?
Because it pays.
Some companies even do business with a portfolio of patents that they don't use to build anything (which is a misuse of the system, but that's another problem).

Of course the inventor of a FE solution would win the jackpot with a patent. Even if his invention was 99% pirated, the 1% would be enough to make him and his descendants very wealthy for the 20 years the patent is valid, which is always better than dying with his invention.

Without a patent, the inventor earns nothing. If his goal is to make money, he must take out a patent and therefore provide the details of the invention. If his goal is to give the invention to humanity, he must also provide all the construction details.

If a machine is not reproducible by competent people in the field, from the instructions provided by the inventor, it is a scam or a big joke. It's as simple as that.




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Dr. Holcomb (MD) has a long and distinguished history of progressive invention in magnetics development, including medical applications and "excess energy" generation. Many of his patents are considered by some to be "reference text books" on the subject as they contain a wealth of in-depth, detailed, information.
...
Therapeutic magnets are a very controversial technique. The evidence for their effectiveness is not at all clear. Holcomb's past does not speak in his favor (nor does it speak against him).


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.......Some companies even do business with a portfolio of patents that they don't use to build anything (which is a misuse of the system, but that's another problem).

I spent most of my working life with a company that thrived on doing work for the UK Ministry of Defence (MOD), i.e getting paid by the Government.  The work was extremely varied from research to development and then production of the equipment.  They did not invest their own money into anything.  If one of their employees came up with a new idea they would patent it, not with the intention of investing their own money but in the hope that the MOD would fund it, or if the MOD funded another company then monies would come from the patent rights.  As you say that is a misuse of the system, and the Patent Office have the right to make things right by ensuring the device does get commercialized but I am not aware that they have ever done so.   The downside from my perspective came many years later when new management looking for cost savings asked why they were paying fees to keep the unused patents alive, and that question came down to me as the inventor to answer.  As an aside my contract of employment had a clause that gave the company the right to any of my inventions, and that clause was legal only if the company gave me a "due and valuable consideration" in return for assigning the patent to them.  At that time the minimum "due and valuable consideration" under UK law was one shilling, 5p in our new decimal currency.  I was so disgusted with this puny amount that I kept the postal orders they gave me in a framed picture displayed in my office.

Smudge   
   

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I spent most of my working life with a company that thrived on doing work for the UK Ministry of Defence (MOD), i.e getting paid by the Government.  The work was extremely varied from research to development and then production of the equipment.  They did not invest their own money into anything.  If one of their employees came up with a new idea they would patent it, not with the intention of investing their own money but in the hope that the MOD would fund it, or if the MOD funded another company then monies would come from the patent rights.  As you say that is a misuse of the system, and the Patent Office have the right to make things right by ensuring the device does get commercialized but I am not aware that they have ever done so.   The downside from my perspective came many years later when new management looking for cost savings asked why they were paying fees to keep the unused patents alive, and that question came down to me as the inventor to answer.  As an aside my contract of employment had a clause that gave the company the right to any of my inventions, and that clause was legal only if the company gave me a "due and valuable consideration" in return for assigning the patent to them.  At that time the minimum "due and valuable consideration" under UK law was one shilling, 5p in our new decimal currency.  I was so disgusted with this puny amount that I kept the postal orders they gave me in a framed picture displayed in my office.

Smudge

Well we know who that was, we both worked there but not at the same time. I'm 71 and I worked there from the age of 18, but only a year, I was very nieve in those days.
Not only the UK government, overseas as well, and of course we both signed the official secrets act "for life".

Regards

Mike


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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@partzman

Why do you think companies protect their inventions?
Because it pays.
Some companies even do business with a portfolio of patents that they don't use to build anything (which is a misuse of the system, but that's another problem).

Of this I'm fully aware!  I have owned several manufacturing companies and hold patents.  Not every company is rewarded for holding patents on their IP.  In fact just the opposite can happen.  Once disclosed, the idea is then ravaged by the "legal beagles" of large corporations.  The patent system used to protect the small individual inventor but no more.  In fact now they charge taxes on patents under the disguise of "maintenance" fees.

Quote
Of course the inventor of a FE solution would win the jackpot with a patent. Even if his invention was 99% pirated, the 1% would be enough to make him and his descendants very wealthy for the 20 years the patent is valid, which is always better than dying with his invention.

Why do you think a pirated invention brings any compensation to the inventor?  Only under agreement between parties will this happen.  And, you can only have such an agreement with an honest large corporation who won't steal the IP under disclosure.  I'm sorry but they carry a much bigger hammer!

Quote
Without a patent, the inventor earns nothing. If his goal is to make money, he must take out a patent and therefore provide the details of the invention. If his goal is to give the invention to humanity, he must also provide all the construction details.

With a patent an inventor can also earn nothing.  In fact, with filing costs attorney's fees, and maintenance fees, an inventor can find themselves in the hole.  I have had my patented IP copied and used by Ford,Motorola, and the Chinese that I'm aware of, and received no compensation.  Why didn't I fight it you say?  Well, simply because I don't have deep enough pockets. 

Quote
If a machine is not reproducible by competent people in the field, from the instructions provided by the inventor, it is a scam or a big joke. It's as simple as that.

On this I agree!

Regards,
Pm

Edit: One more consideration for a patent holder- You must be in a position to defend your IP in a court of law.  Otherwise, your patent rights are worthless!
   
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...
Why do you think a pirated invention brings any compensation to the inventor?
Why do you think that I think a pirated invention brings any compensation to the inventor?   :)
I only said that even if 99% of the invention was pirated, in matter of free energy the remaining 1% would be more than enough to make the inventor live very well.

Quote
Edit: One more consideration for a patent holder- You must be in a position to defend your IP in a court of law.  Otherwise, your patent rights are worthless!
The money needed for the lawsuits will be amply paid by the revenues of the 1% (or more, most certainly, because I doubt that 99% of the machine's production would be pirated), and then by the winnings from the damages won in court.

The inventor has only two choices:
- keep the invention for himself and die with it
- produce a patent which, even if it is exploited without a license by some, will be paid for by most companies.

There is no other option.




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@Smudge
The inventor should not be too demanding either. Or, if he really believes in his invention, he can become an entrepreneur and start his own business.
When you have always been a salaried employee, you don't realize the risks of starting your own business. The price of risk explains why an invention is not necessarily paid at its fair value: sales may be successful... or not at all, you don't know that in advance with certainty.


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A man once taught me
“Never hand a man a stick to beat you with”

At the time I was representing a company doing business in NYC
and I was interacting with many government agencies.

I apply this to FE patents, and Government national security seizures (5-6000 or more … a decade ago ?)

F6FLT
Quote
The inventor has only two choices:
- keep the invention for himself and die with it
- produce a patent which, even if it is exploited without a license by some, will be paid for by most companies.

There is no other option.
End quote
—///
Sir
Here forum theme is open source for FE techs,
Always has been.
??



   
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Why do you think that I think a pirated invention brings any compensation to the inventor?   :)
I only said that even if 99% of the invention was pirated, in matter of free energy the remaining 1% would be more than enough to make the inventor live very well.
The money needed for the lawsuits will be amply paid by the revenues of the 1% (or more, most certainly, because I doubt that 99% of the machine's production would be pirated), and then by the winnings from the damages won in court.

The inventor has only two choices:
- keep the invention for himself and die with it
- produce a patent which, even if it is exploited without a license by some, will be paid for by most companies.

There is no other option.

TRADE SECRETS is another option. It's used quite often now days with respect to "excess energy" methods and techniques, in particular, when a company or facility desires to reduce costs to be more competitive.

"Trade Secrets" intellectual property (IP) rights are also used by a lot of consultants to guarantee their "work product" is not appropriated by their customer. Sometimes it's as simple as locking your IP in a cabinet! Non-disclosures, etc...

https://www.wipo.int/tradesecrets/en/


   
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KEEP IN MIND - You can exploit patented IP, in most cases, for personal/non-commercial use; but see below for more specific details. A bit tricky but you can likely build a patented device and use it for yourself. However, selling it on any scale will likely cross the "royalty" threshold. Just my "non-legal" opinion. Of course if all your neighbours build their own devices for personal use?

EXCEPTIONS AND LIMITATIONS TO PATENT RIGHTS: PRIVATE AND/OR NON-COMMERCIAL USE

https://www.wipo.int/edocs/mdocs/patent_policy/en/scp_20/scp_20_3.pdf

Note: Private or non-commercial use of a "patent" is very dependant on the "member state" as outlined in the pdf above. So, check with your "state's" laws first and then proceed accordingly.

A quote, in part, from paragraph 7:

7. Many responses stated that the policy objectives pursued by the private and non-commercial use exception were related to balancing legitimate interests. For example, the need to establish a balance of interest between private use and commercial use was stated by the response from Austria. The response from Brazil referred to the exception which did not unreasonably conflict with a normal exploitation of the patent and did not unreasonably prejudice the legitimate interests of the patent owner, taking account of the legitimate interests of third parties, in order to contribute to the promotion of technological innovation and to the transfer and dissemination of technology, to the mutual advantage of producers and users of technological knowledge and in a manner conducive to social and economic welfare, and to a balance of rights and obligations. The response from China specified that “[p]ersonal or non-commercial use [did] not affect the economic interests of neither the right holders nor the public at large, so one should not allow right holders to enjoy absolute exclusive ownership” in order to promote “the economic development or the well beings of the entire society”. Otherwise, “it would make the patent coverage excessively large, thus interrupting the normal activities of the public at large”. In Hungary, private use, for example, is not considered as prejudicing “the normal exploitation” of patents.


   
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So, now lets design and build a "Holcomb Generator!" 

   
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So, now lets design and build a "Holcomb Generator!" 

   
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Quote
The inventor has only two choices:
- keep the invention for himself and die with it
- produce a patent which, even if it is exploited without a license by some, will be paid for by most companies.
There is no other option.
...
Here forum theme is open source for FE techs,
Always has been.
??

Of course there is that option. I was only talking about the possibilities when the inventor does not want his invention to be exploited by others.

An inventor can always provide the plans and evidence that his invention works, so that anyone can duplicate it.
But in FE, this case has never happened, otherwise we would not be doing research, we would already have the power machine at home.

This forum is mainly for exchanging and experimenting with ideas. If a real solution emerges, I have no idea what would happen.



---------------------------
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An inventor can always provide the plans and evidence that his invention works, so that anyone can duplicate it.
But in FE, this case has never happened, otherwise we would not be doing research, we would already have the power machine at home.


...aka open source working. Mark Shuttleworth made enough off UbuntuLinux to have a brief holiday on the ISS.
   
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I forgot to mention that the claimed effects must be reproducible in the machines built from the plans of the supposed inventors.

This eliminates Aka and almost all the pseudo-inventors but real cheaters who flood us with setups that never work.


---------------------------
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Enjoy your trek through life but leave no tracks
Well we know who that was, we both worked there but not at the same time. I'm 71 and I worked there from the age of 18, but only a year, I was very nieve in those days.
Not only the UK government, overseas as well, and of course we both signed the official secrets act "for life".

Regards

Mike
Then change your name, the government doesn't own you !
   
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Axial flux motors - The new hope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EEVPVNJHjM

Currently working on (CAE design) this Axial Flux Motor approach.

Replace the permanent magnets with similar shaped coils - two sets total per single stack, times ? stacks - with a "Holcomb" type metal "fixture pieces" through the center of the coil(s) - to achieve Holcomb's Ferromagnetic/Paramagnetic iron flux "gain" claim. Initial controller is a laptop feeding TI driver demo boards and Littlefuse SiC MOSFETs.

Easier to construct since the coils can be layed down [wound] using a CNC Milling machine and the "fixture pieces" can also be easily machined, as required. In the future, if this works out, the generator might be constructed using an additive 3D printer (graphine and oxide filament). Since the generator is stationary; this would be very inexpensive!

Ok, that's it, will leave you fellows alone now. Good luck.


   
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Axial flux seems like a really good idea, but for practical reasons, while the operating principle is the same as with radial flux.


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Re-discovered a CAD file of Gunderson's 2006 patent (attached) while digging through the archives. Never completed the CAE analysis since Ansoft, at that time, choked on the pseudo Litz wire kluge and it didn't do magnets very well.

Ansys (the updated Ansoft) now has a Litz wire model built-in and the permanent magnet model can be parameterized and has a variety of good example parts.

Anyway, as soon as some CPU time is freed up this Gunderson scheme will be re-done.

You never know! If it shows any promise a prototype shoulld be easily constructed and tested.


   
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Quote
The inventor has only two choices:
- keep the invention for himself and die with it
- produce a patent which, even if it is exploited without a license by some, will be paid for by most companies.
There is no other option.

I think Elon Musk has the right idea...

The technologies for Tesla, Space X and Starlink are patented but it means little. There winning the tech race because they can apply working technology faster than all the dullards trying to copy them.

Most don't understand that technology is moving much faster than the patent process. So most technologies are probably obsolete by the time they have a full patent in place. This is why many inventors are filing a patent application as more of a formality for investors than protection. 

Holcomb is a perfect example of how it's done...
1)File a few generalized patent applications.
2)Seek investors to fast track production.
3)Go into production as fast as possible.
4)Innovate faster than all the people trying to copy the technology.
5)Worst case scenario everyone eventually steals the technology and they still win because it's all about progress.

From experience I can say the biggest hurdle is the start up and investment. For some reason when people see advanced technology they turn into raving lunatics. There all giddy like little children then greed sets in and everyone tries to screw over everyone else to get there share. It basically turns into some kind of adolescent playground brawl with everyone throwing around the threat of lawsuits. So it's important to find educated, qualified and professional people right off the start. 

AC







---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

I take comfort in the fact there are people magnitudes more intelligent than I could ever be developing new technology I will probably never understand. It proves evolution works...
   
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