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Author Topic: 3 Pole Kit from Renaissance Meeting  (Read 3415 times)
Group: Guest
Okay!  This thread will be following the Energetic Forum thread "3 Pole Kit from Renaissance Meeting" and give some counter-point about the 3-pole motor that was given out to the attendees of the November Renaissance conference, offer technical corrections or opinions when required, etc.  So this thread in modern parlance could be considered kind of a "mash up" thread!

This thread will not delve much into all of the tech in nitty-gritty because all that is done in the "Bedini 10-coiler alternative discussion" thread.

I think that my 10-coiler thread has a certain amount of traction with the Bedini followers on the other forums and on the Yahoo groups.  I assume many lurk and the postings here are considered a kind of "forbidden fruit" and I am a "bad guy."  In my defense, I am trying to give an honest appraisal of the tech behind Bedini motors and I sometimes make frank and tough statements.  Normally I don't do this intentionally, rather I am reacting to stuff that I have read that is totally out of whack.

I made a posting on the 10-coiler thread about analyzing the 3-coiler and I will repost in this thread later.  I sent the posting to about 5 Yahoo Bedini people just for fun to try to give them some new ideas.  Here are some select quotes from the Bedini Yahoo group that will help paint the "bad guy" picture:

Quote
Hi all. I received an email today attempting to lure me to a forum to discuss
this technology and "help" me analyze the new 3 pole kit I received at the
conference. I am passing this on so that anyone that receives a similar email
not to bother going there . They are not official and the reasons for attempting
to lure me there were not to "help". If you get this just delete it. The site
is definitely NOT helpful in the understanding and testing of these devices.

Quote
It went on attempting to tell me "shocking" things about the monopole and out
right deceptions.
It is specifically directed at me and others that attended the
conference.

Quote
Yes, we are familiar with this person. He attempts to lure people to his site
where he does nothing but bash John and anyone else who does not agree with him.
There is no information at his site other than DISinformation.

Quote
It is the easiest thing in the world to just click the delete button without reading them at all.

Quote
Yes, we are well aware of this person and his agenda. He goes by the name of
MileHigh on that forum he tries to suck people into. I did actually join that
forum and posted there until it was clear that he was not going to listen to
anything I was saying.
I since resigned from that forum as I found it clear that
I was wasting my time. I was the person that forced him to admit that he had
never built a Bedini device and never plans to.

Quote
At the end of the day it's up to each person to decide what they want to read
and who they want follow and decide for themselves what is the truth and what is
not. Then you can make your own informed decision on what you want to do. We are
just encouraging people to do the experiments for themselves and make up their
own mind.

At least I can agree with the last quote!

So I thought it would be fun to start the thread of with an apropos YouTube clip!  Hold on to your hats!!!  lol

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XypVcv77WBU[/youtube]
« Last Edit: 2010-12-09, 14:20:12 by MileHigh »
   
Group: Guest
Here is the schematic for the complimentary 3-pole Bedini motor given out at the convention:  (Note this is a preliminary schematic and there was some confusion where the schematic was not identical to the kit that was given out.  Therefore I am not certain if this schematic is the correct one.)

   
Group: Guest
I am going to discuss analyzing this motor using high-level concepts only.  All of the low-level descriptions of how to go about making the real measurements, etc, are in the Bedini threads on this web site.

For starters, the most basic measurements you can make on the motor are the average power consumption from the source battery and the average power output to the charging battery.  You typically will want to vary the base resistances for the transistors (this motor has three power coils) and see how the performance changes in terms of power consumed and power transferred into the charging battery.

So, I am throwing down the challenge to people with this new motor, or Bedini motor experimenters in general:  How many watts of power is your motor consuming from the source battery?  How many watts of power is the motor pumping into the charging battery?  I have seen so many Bedini motor clips and read so many threads and I almost never read about anyone making a serious attempt to make these measurements.

This is the most fundamental data about your new motor, average power in and average power out.

The real way to make these power consumption and power output measurements for irregular pulsing voltage and current waveforms is in the Bedini measurement thread on this web site.

When you add the generator coil and want to measure the power output from it, the first thing to do is get rid of the LEDs because it's almost impossible to measure the power consumption of LEDs with ordinary bench equipment.  They are non-linear devices so you can forget it.

For the generator coil, you want to add a simple resistor as the load, and you need a "True RMS" multimeter to measure the RMS voltage across the load resistor to calculate the coil output power.  In addition, you can measure the resistance of your coil.  Then you have enough data to determine how much average power is burned off in the generator coil itself because you know the RMS current through the load resistor, and the same current flows through the generator coil.

You also want to try varying the load resistance for the generator coil because that will change how much power the generator coil outputs at a given RPM.

That's enough food for thought to start the process for doing a serious evaluation of how your new Bedini motor actually works.

Think of each time you do a run test of your Bedini motor, there is a "data vector" of measurements and derived data that describe the operation of your motor.

Here is a sample "data vector" for a run of your Bedini motor:

1. Source battery voltage  (Why not check with your scope to be sure it is truly constant?)
2. Source battery size and type and ampere-hour rating
3. Charging battery voltage
4. Charging battery size and type and ampere-hour rating
5. RPMs
6. Average source battery power consumption
7. Average output power to charging battery
8. Generator coil load resistance
9. Generator coil winding resistance
10. Generator coil output power
11. Power dissipated as heat in generator coil itself
12. Transistor type
13. Base resistance(s) setting
14. Transistor ON time
15. Transistor pulse frequency

You note that I am not listing the run time and the source and charging battery start and end voltages.  The data vector is only concerned with the real-time running operation of the motor itself.  I may make some comments on batteries and battery testing in a later posting or you can read the Bedini threads on this web site.

The most shocking thing for some of you is that you are going to see that average output power to the charging battery will be much less than the average source battery power consumption.  The output power to the charging battery might only be about 30% as much as the motor's power consumption.

Once you generate the first data vector for your Bedini motor, you can start experimenting by varying one parameter and seeing how that affects all of the other measurements.  You can follow your own lines of investigation, never forgetting that you want to make all of the measurements for each new data vector.

Another "shocking" thing that you are going to see is that if you start outputting significant amounts of power with the generator coil that the motor will slow down a lot, and this will affect the motor's power consumption and also affect the output power to the charging battery.  You will quickly come to the realization that the old line about Bedini motors, "the mechanical is free" is NOT TRUE, and you have to pay a price to drive the separate generator coil with mechanical power from the rotor.

So that's it, I am throwing down a challenge to all of the Renaissance workshop attendees that were given their sample Bedini motors.  The challenge is to make test runs with your Bedini motor and generate all 15 pieces of data in the data vector for each run.

This is a good starting point for really understanding how your motor works.  Since many of you have the same motors, you can easily compare notes.  There is no doubt that doing this involves some REAL WORK and discipline to make all the measurements and record all of the data.  There is a tangible reward at the end though, and you have a more or less standardized set of data that you can exchange with other experimenters that have exactly the same motor.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Okay, here is my first real set of comments, from the following posting on the EF thread:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6932-3-pole-kit-rennaissance-meeting.html#post120884

I am going to paste the entire posting here, and then make my comments in red text.

>>>

As promised here are my work in progress notes minus my plans going forward which we can all discuss, please feel free to correct me if I have things wrong or at least have a discussion around it.

Concept
The Bedini motor harnesses extra energy from the environment by the use of the radient voltage spike coming from the colapsing magnetic field in a coil of wire. This spike charges a battery that makes use of this pure voltage spike to chemically recharge itself. The extra radient energy is gained due to a disturbance in the surrounding environment that allows the extra energy around the wire (heaviside flow) to enter the circuit.

It doesn't "harness extra energy from the environment."  I have mentioned this two-faced business with respect to how the Bedini management people discuss their proposition before.  When pushed, they will say a Bedini motor is NOT a free energy device, but they seem to be more than happy to let their followers believe that it is a free energy device.  We will see if John Koorn or someone else comments on this to correct this false impression.  As we know, the "radiant" voltage spikes are NOT "radiant energy" they are spikes of current from the discharging coil, and all of the energy in those current spikes came from the source battery and nowhere else.  It is not a "pure voltage spike."  Letting that false concept be propagated is one of the worst transgressions of the "Bedini management group."  The battery does not "recharge itself." it gets charged from the current spikes.  The whole business about "extra radiant energy is gained due to a disturbance in the surrounding environment" is complete and utter nonsense.

Now that was one serious rebut!  Right here you can see almost all of the false concepts in one basket.  So the real question to ask yourselves is who is providing the disinformation and who is providing the truth?


The energy lost from the primary battery is due to the energizing of the 3 coils briefly which requires energy to establish the magnetic field and provides rotor push via repulsion of north poles. The use of permanent magnets in the rotor provides a free magnetic field used to trigger the coil pulses and also to provide repulsion moving the rotor. The speed of the motor is self determined by the applied voltage (field strength) and the number of asymetrical trigger poles. The rotor torque is determined by the number of pulse coils, more coils equals more torque. If using a generator coil to drive a load then it will affect speed depending on the current load (BEMF).

With respect to the speed of the motor, the better way of explaining that is that the power put into the rotor from the magnetic repulsion is counterbalanced and nullified by the power being lost due to bearing and air friction.  Note also that when the rotor it turning at its steady-state speed and the supplied power is in balance with the bearing and air friction power, the available rotor torque to do useful work is zero.  Only when you put a real external mechanical load on the rotor and it slows down, are you getting usable rotor torque.

For this statement, "If using a generator coil to drive a load then it will affect speed depending on the current load (BEMF)," it's not really "back-EMF," the generator coil would cause Lenz Law drag because it's driving a load and current is flowing through the coil.


The COP>1 has to be acheived by:

COP = Pout / Pin

Pout factors:
Increased charge in charge battery (after rest period)
Rotary mechanical force that can be sustained  <-- Remember if you don't put an external mechanical load this is zero.
Excess Generated electricity (Gen coil etc...)

Pin factors:
Primary Battery consumption (after rest period)  <-- "after rest period" is the clue telling you that they are using battery voltage as a reference and that's dead wrong!

Read the following posting from the "Bedini SSG measurements" thread to learn why you cannot use battery voltages for your COP measurements:

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=364.msg7093#msg7093

Therefore:
COP = (Increase in charge + Mechanical force + Generated power) / Primary Battery consumption

The 3 pole kit performance goals
- Should be in the neighbourhood of 5000RPM
- Should generate about 24V
- Should be able to put all the energy into charging the batteries
- Should be able to become a self runner  <-- GOOD LUCK Mother Nature is watching you!
- Should be able to indefinetly run using a basic battery swapper system to rotate 3 or 4 batteries  <-- The proof is in the pudding and I don't think anybody has tasted that pudding yet!

The SSG diagram and description of the circuit operation
(SEE ATTACHMENT FOR MY REVISED SCHEMATIC)

- As the magnet on the rotor approaches T1 it induces a current in the trigger side coil (left)that goes through D1, R2 and the potentiometer R1. It does not induce into the drive side (right) because it is an open circuit. When the Magnet is directly above the core the induced current stops.
- When the magnet has past the core it induces a current in the opposite direction (Lenz’s law) that flows through the base of the transistor Q1 and out through the emmiter. This turns on Q1 and then current flows from BT2 into the drive side coil (right) repulsing the rotor magnet by creating a like (N) pole.
- Once the magnet is past the the trigger coil the induced current stops and shuts off Q1. The collapsing magnetic field then sends a spike through D2 and into BT1 charging it.
- The Neon bulb NE-2 is for visual feedback and provides dampening of too large of spikes due to its high resistance, and if there is no charge battery connected protects the circuit.  <--- Correction, the neon bulb turns on above a certain voltage threshold and then clamps the voltage at that threshold which protects the transistor.  It does not have a "high resistance," in fact once it switches on it acts like a "negative differential resistor."
- Purpose of LP1 must be to stop the reverse current flow and give a visual confirming that you have trigger voltage
- For the 3 pole kit to make it run LP1, R1 and R2 are replaced with the 220ohm resistor and you add the 3 identical circuits in paralell to eachother at the 4 common points (BT2 negative, trigger coil start, BT1 positive, and either the switch terminal or junction of BT1 negative and BT2 positive)

Troubleshooting tips with the Energizer

- Initial problem might occur due to the trigger circuit and the Vbe not being high enough. Factors to consider are moving the core closer to the rotor to induce more voltage in the winding, and also adjusting the resistance to a lower value in the trigger circuit which should allow more votage to the Vbe jucttion
- Once able to prove that the transistors are turning on (should see the rotor coast to a stop rather than sudden stop) you need to adjust the timing by moving the trigger coil to a spot where the pulses are pushing the rotor more, typically it seems to be off dead center by 10degrees and depends on the direction of rotation
- To prove each coil is firing, remove the wire from one coil at a time. If it slows down then that coil was firing, otherwise it might not have been working and requires using an oscilliscope or voltmeter
- Upon hookup of the battery there can be a slight inrush current in the coils. This might be enough to induce a current in the trigger circuit and actually turn the transistor on to fire it. Try starting with the pots on maximum for the hookup and then crank them down for the start to limit the current to the base

To be continued...
   
Group: Guest
There is a good discussion going on about the choice of the transistors for the 3-pole kit and I can off up some pointers and clarifications:

>>>
Still tinkering around with my setup which is now standardized and I can swap transistors real easy

I went online to NEWARK and selected a transistor based on the ratings that I thought would suit (decent gain fast switching) and came up:
D44C1 power transistor
Hfe = 25 - 200
Ft = 50Mhz <- When selecting a transistor you can safely ignore this maximum switching frequency parameter.  The reason is that the Bedini motor switches the transistor on and off so much slowly than the maximum switching frequency parameter such that any transistor will already be "too fast" for the Bedini motor.
Tried it out and it seems to work very well with more and higher peaks than both the 8099 and 21194.
In my tests the 8099 and 21194 operate quite well and have pretty much the same results but neither as good as the D44C1. I have been using a 1Kohm resistor with a 1Kohm wirewound pot which seems to give me the best results. <- To get good switching there are many parameters to work with.  Probably the most important is the geometry and number of turns in the pick-up coil.  The base resistance will affect the switching time also.  The most important switching transition is the ON -> OFF transition.  You want that to be as fast as possible so that a bare minimum of power is burned off in the transistor itself, which will at the same time maximize the energy stored in the inductor coil being transferred into the charging battery.  If you are a keener you will monitor the transistor switching with your scope.  It's probably worth it to have "extra" turns on the pick-up coil so that you get a higher EMF and a higher voltage slew rate.  This will turn the transistor ON and OFF more quickly, and you will need to use a higher base resistance.  There will be a trade-off in that the pick-up coil circuit will burn off more energy and cause more Lenz drag on the rotor.  The benefit from the faster switching is more power being transferred to the charging battery and most likely the transistors will run cooler.  The geometry of the pick-up coil is quite interesting here.  To give you a faster OFF time you are trying to make the rate of flux change as fast as possible when the rotor magnet is moving away from the pick-up coil. If you get creative and "think outside the box" there may be ways of doing this with a non-standard pick-up coil shape.

I also figured out why my 8099's were burning up, and why the on/off switch is important:  <- There is no reason for the transistors in the 3-coiler to ever burn up.  The fist think that comes to mind is somehow there was some source of base current that kept the transistor in partial-conduction mode which is something you want to avoid like the plague because in that case the transistor is acting like a resistor.  You want the transistors to be ON or OFF, but ideally never in between those two states.

when you clip on the battery lead there is a slight leakage current inrush into the coil which is enough to induce a current into the trigger coil and turn the transistor on to way more current than it should handle and it burns out.  <- This doesn't sound right.  You can burn out the transistor by pumping too much current through the base, but it is highly unlikely that would happen.  On the other hand, if you are certain that the transistor is 100% switched ON, then it should be able to stay on for quite a while and the coil should start heating up, not the transistor.  If the transistor burns up first even though you know that you are supplying the correct amount of base current, then that means the transistor doesn't have the power-handling capabilities that the circuit demands.  Finally, be careful about keeping the coil switched on too long because it could easily get white hot and start a fire.

Ironically this only happens if the transistor is brand new and it does not happen after conditioning.  <- There is no such thing as transistor conditioning.  You would need to investigate in more detail to figure out what is going on.

I feel like I am getting closer to the right operating perameters as I have my RPM's up to 5000 and see good radient spikes up to about 40volts... I actually think they might be higher but my 100MHz laptop o-scope might not be fast enough to see the true peak value.  <-  You shouldn't be getting spikes up to 40 volts if the charging battery is connected.  Your 100 MHz scope should be able to see the spikes.

I also have noticed that impedance matching the batteries does make a big difference and am looking forward to getting my free lead acid UPS batteries from work that are exactly the same for some true experiments.   <- In a Bedini motor there is no such thing as impedance matching.  This one always throws people off but it is absolutely true.  For example, if this question manages to get back to you:  What is the impedance value you are talking about?  Are you talking about an "impedance match" between the source and the charging batteries?  If you are then you are wrong because the two batteries are decoupled from one another, so there is nothing to "match."  Please read the Bedini 10-coiler thread to learn how there is no such thing as impedance matching for a Bedini  motor.
>>>

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Quote
Quick note on the transistors I am toying with in regards to drive battery current consumed when tuned to about top speed with best spikes:

MPS8099 - 230mA
D44C1 - 370mA
MJL21194 - 260mA

So the D44C1 might be not as good since I have to 'pay' more to get more. Depends if the higher radient spikes add enough value to overcome consuming the extra 100mA... Only testing will tell!

You can't just make a current consumption measurement, you need more data.  There is almost certainly something else going on to explain the major difference in current consumption between the transistors.  You have to take a scope probe and look at all of the signals around the transistor.  There is a real and tangible reason for D44C1 transistor to be consuming more current.  Are you sure that it is switching from 100% OFF to 100% ON.  How fast are the switching transitions?

With respect to the output spikes, they should not be high at all if your charging battery is in decent shape.  If you see high-voltage spikes at the charging battery there is most likely something amiss.

The real question about the "radiant spikes" is how much average power are they sending to the charging battery.  That's a question that most Bedini experimenters can't answer and it appears to me that it is beyond the technical capabilities of the Yahoo Bedini group also.

It all comes back to the big question which is as follows:  As you change transistors and experiment with different base resistors how do you know when the motor is operating at peak efficiency?  How do you define peak efficiency?  It is certainly not when you get the maximum RPMs.

The answer is that you want to monitor the average power consumption from the source battery in real time and monotor the average power output to the charging battery in real time as you experiment with different transistors and base resistances.  The maximum efficiency happens when the ratio of the output power to the input power is at its maximum.  The way to do this is indicated in the Bedini measurement thread on this web site.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Quoting Mark:

Quote
Hey guys,

I've had my 3 pole kit now for over a year. I have come up with a different circuit similiar to the half bipolar circuit, but even simpler. I'm using the 3 power coils but I am not using the trigger coil wire on the bifiliar coil. So you could just use 3 single wire coils. I am putting the spike back into the input battery so I use only 1 battery. My best tuned set up runs on 12 volts 40ma and the rotor turns a little over 3300 rpm's.

I was wondering if anyone has their 3 pole running at higher rpm's for 40ma@12 volts input or over 3000 rpm's with less than 40ma @12 volts input?

I'm just trying to figure out If I have a good circuit here.

Thanks, Mark

Those are interesting numbers Mark but I can tell you how I would approach what you did.  I would separate the outgoing power from the battery and the return power to the battery and measure them separately.  That would be interesting to know.

I will mention that the pursuit of RPMs is interesting but not really relevant to a Bedini motor's primary function.

It would be nice if about a dozen or more 3-coilers started doing some interesting testing together as a group.  It would be nice if you defined some goals and worked towards them, whatever they might be.  I proposed that you analyze the real-time running operation of the motor with a "measurement vector" with about 15 datum points a few postings back.

Another suggestion is that you all buy the same batteries and do runs where you charge one battery with another and also do before/after load testing on the source and the charging batteries.  There is always that mixed message about Bedini motors where about one-half the time they claim that it is a free energy machine and the other half of the time they simply claim that it is a battery charger.  The only way to find out what's what would be to do the real testing.  Small scooter or motorcycle batteries would be a good fit for the three-coiler.

I love to dream in technicolour!  The sad reality is that the only thing a Bedini motor does is loose energy.  Even if it can condition batteries, it still looses energy.  If you want to use one to charge and condition batteries, then you may as well get rid of the source battery and replace it with a power supply.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Hi,

I found this forum when researching Bedini technology. I am an electronics novice but the Bedini energizer looks simple to build so it looks like a good place to start.

I am a member of the Bedini Yahoo group but I'm not good at building stuff so I thought I would get 3 pole kit. Do you think this would be a good idea?

I have some batteries that are very weak but I did not want to chuck them before trying to fix them with the Bedini machine.

What do you think?

DragonSlayer
   
Group: Guest
DragonSlayer:

If you are not good at building stuff the 3-pole kit might be the right choice for you.  You can also look at Bedini motors on YouTube and you might see a configuration that you will want to try building for yourself.  A way to get a rotor with a fantastic bearing is to open up and use the platter and bearing in an old hard drive.

If you try to learn about electronics that would help you a lot.  It would also be wise to learn about Bedini motors in different places.  You are on the Yahoo Bedini group and there are Bedini threads on the various free energy forums.  The Bedini threads on this forum are sometimes very technical.  The people specifically on the Yahoo Bedini group forum will tell you the Bedini threads on this forum should not be looked at.  In fact you should read the Bedini threads on this forum as well as other Bedini threads and decide for yourself if the threads around here are worth reading.  There is no "radiant energy" associated with a Bedini motor like they say in the Yahoo Bedini groups.  To understand what is going on you would have to learn about electronics, read the threads here, and do some experiments with your setup.

Good luck.

MileHigh
   
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
It is really important for Bedini enthusiasts to get a good understanding of how sealed lead acid batteries operate as there are many effects that occur in the charging and discharging that are misleading to the novice.

I recommend typing in "pulse battery desulphation" and you will find many articles, links, simple schematics etc. that address this problem with the Bedini "mysticism" removed.

here is a good one:     http://www.batteryminders.com/batterycharger/desulphation.php

Once you develop a keen eye for what a little bit of sulphation can do to battery impedance and ability to deliver current, you will not be easily fooled again.

Don't neglect heating effects either....the sealed lead acid battery is an electrochemical device and the reaction speeds up a bit with temperature effects induced by self heating, which is more prevalent when there is a bit of sulphation that raises the battery impedance and looks like a resistor right down in the electrolyte.

If you want to experiment with self powered pulse desulphators that don't require battery swapping consider a product similar to the device offered by Sterling. These are two wire devices that operate directly off the battery of interest. In reality, they are relaxation oscillators that take energy over time and return it to the same battery in the form of a high current narrow  pulse, breaking down the sulphation.

(and now the plug) You can go to my bench  where I have offered an elementary circuit that could serve as the basis for a two wire pulse battery desulphator. This is the first schematic on the "looping" thread.


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
Group: Guest
Thanks MileHigh,

I have ordered a 3 pole kit from a guy here in Australia. $280 seems pretty reasonable. I could not make it for that and I don't have a lot of time to try and build anything. His website looks pretty cool www.wavelengthenergysolutions.com.au .

I watched a couple of videos on YouTube on the 3 pole kit. It looks pretty cool. There was one where a guy has a big gear on the back of it, not sure what it does yet.

Why do you say that the people on the Bedini Yahoo group tell people not to come here? I haven't read all the posts there yet but they seem to know what they're talking bout.

I will try and learn some more on electronics like you say but my work is very busy so I don't get much time.

Thanks
DragonSlayer
   
Group: Guest
Thanks ION.

On the Bedini Yahoo group they say that sealed lead acid are real junk. I already have some drill batteries that don't work good so want to try and fix them with the 3 pole kit i just ordered.

I think I will get a small motor cycle battery to run the 3 pole kit as I don't want more junk batteries LOL.

Thanks
DragonSlayer
   
Group: Guest

Why do you say that the people on the Bedini Yahoo group tell people not to come here? I haven't read all the posts there yet but they seem to know what they're talking bout.

Thanks
DragonSlayer

I know this from interacting with them on a very limited basis.  If you learn some electronics and read the Bedini threads in both places (Yahoo and here) you will see that there are differences.

MileHigh
« Last Edit: 2011-01-31, 22:34:19 by MileHigh »
   

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3055
Thanks ION.

On the Bedini Yahoo group they say that sealed lead acid are real junk. I already have some drill batteries that don't work good so want to try and fix them with the 3 pole kit i just ordered.

I think I will get a small motor cycle battery to run the 3 pole kit as I don't want more junk batteries LOL.

Thanks
DragonSlayer

Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) batteries occasionally do have internal
manufacturing defects (connections) which will render some of
them poor performers.  It's fairly easy to detect those problems
early on in most cases - the batteries will develop "hot spots"
near the cell interconnects which are embedded in the plastic
during charge and discharge.

Unfortunately, there is not an easy fix for those defects short
of very careful "surgery" to make repairs.

Most SLA problems are simply excessive long-term (crystalline)
sulfation and loss of water from the electrolyte (drying out) due
to excessive charging.

The crystalline sulfation can be reversed in time with a good
desulfator over a period of several weeks to months.  It is very
slowly done.

The dried out SLA can be restored by carefully exposing the
"valves" in order to inject distilled water with a syringe.  Remove
the rubber valve caps to inject water into the cells;  then replace
the rubber valves.  You'll be able to see the water absorb into the
plate separators (in most cases) and when they "saturate" you've
added enough.  You'll acquire an "eye" for this as you experiment.

If the SLA is structurally sound (without any internal connection
defects) it will respond well to desulfation and adding distilled
water to the cells.  It should rejuvenate to nearly full capacity.

Tell us more about the drill batteries that you hope to rejuvenate:
what is their chemistry and their electrical characteristics?

 


---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
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