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OverUnity Research > Benches > NickZ > Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications.
2024-04-30, 18:12:51
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Author Topic: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications.  (Read 35651 times)
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img  Maxolous
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #175 on: 2023-06-16, 19:23:26 »

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Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023-06-16, 17:31:30
as in drawing.

AG,
Your above arrangement refers;

First 2 layers one direction, the last 4layers reversed direction

Maxolous
   
img  Itsu
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #176 on: 2023-06-16, 21:49:39 »

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Quote from: Maxolous on 2023-06-16, 15:50:10
@Itsu,

I have seen it.
But look critically, look at it again comparing the one I just posted and yours, there is a slight difference.  Thus, if you are looking at the point that layer 2 stopped and layer 3 started in my post considering the direction of wound of layer 3, mathematically, layer 3 is in the same direction as layer 2. Please, study it.
I stand to be corrected.

Find attached.

Maxolous

Hi Max,

yes you are correct, i see it, the difference is starting between layers 2 and 3.

Interesting again, so this could be Stalkers Grenade V3   O0

Itsu
   
img  Itsu
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #177 on: 2023-06-16, 21:59:09 »

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Quote from: Maxolous on 2023-06-16, 16:03:33
Itsu,
If am correct, layer 1,2,3, are in same direction in my image notation
Same principle if winding a transformer for Inverter(layer2&3)
Maxolous

Hmm, It's hard to see how layer 3 is wound, CW or CCW, i do not see the pictogram as with the other layers (I guess the pictograms left of the inductor are pointing to the inductor winding direction).

Perhaps a better picture could show what is meant.

Itsu
   
img  Maxolous
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #178 on: 2023-06-17, 07:02:12 »

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It is quite clear that the grenade is wound in the same direction if image is studied critically. Except it is an error from the designer. However, when grenade is wound in one direction  as I have  found out, it resonate at wire length when the resonance frequency is determined in the half wave mode.

Maxolous
   
img  Maxolous
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #179 on: 2023-06-17, 09:06:31 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-16, 21:59:09
Hmm, It's hard to see how layer 3 is wound, CW or CCW,

If we agree that layer2 is ccw, if the designer says layer3 goes cw from the view from reversed side as indicated in pictogram. Therefore, layer3 is ccw with respect to layer1,2. If that be the case, it also means that layer4,5,6. Which is in same direction as layer3 are all ccw.
Surfice to say the grenade is in one direction which is ccw.
This will resonate at it natural frequency of wire length.


Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-16, 21:59:09


 i do not see the pictogram as with the other layers (I guess the pictograms left of the inductor are pointing to the inductor winding direction).

Perhaps a better picture could show what is meant.

Itsu

This was why I said study it carefully, you will fathom what am saying.

Maxolous.
   
img  Itsu
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #180 on: 2023-06-17, 10:20:28 »

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Hi Max,

looking at the drawing, i see in the bottom left, 2 pictograms with the Russian letters "л" and "п" next to it.
"л" stands for L, and "п" for p if you translate it into English, i guess for left and right? as being written behind it in English.

So "л" (L) is CCW looking into the direction from the arrow, "п" (p) is CW also looking into the direction of the arrow.
It does not matter in what direction you look, a CW wound coil will show CW when looking from either side.

The layers are also marked with these pictograms / letters on the top part in the diagram, with layers 1 and 2 showing on the left side both the L pictogram (CCW).
Layers 3, 4, 5, and 6 are marked with either a pictogram or p or "п" on the right side all meaning CW.

The Inductor also has these pictograms on its left side, both showing p (CW).


So to me this means that layers 1 and 2 are CW and layers 3, 4, 5 and 6 are CCW.

All the layers are not forth and back, but forth, then straight back to the beginning and again forth with between layers 2 and 3 a swap from CCW to CW.


The bottom right shows that layers 4, 5 and 6 are for tuning the Grenade to match the calculated inductance, whatever "calculated inductance" is being meant.


Itsu
   
img  Apecore
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #181 on: 2023-06-17, 11:25:05 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-17, 10:20:28

The bottom right shows that layers 4, 5 and 6 are for tuning the Grenade to match the calculated inductance, whatever "calculated inductance" is being meant.


Itsu

I would suggest in order to find out, winding these layers in such a way we determine its inductance range at the highest and lowest possible outcome.

Ape
   
img  Itsu
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #182 on: 2023-06-17, 11:51:09 »

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I just got some info from Vasik who send me some details on that Grenade winding method in the attached pdf.

Under the "Gradient coil" (Grenade) part it gives some info about this coil and the calculated inductance (143uH), but also this:

half the length of the wire wound on the first two layers in one direction, the second half of the
wire in the opposite direction 4 layers, this forms two “halves” of the multilayer bifilar coil

Which for me confirms that it's not wound all in one direction.

Anyway, i got some more info (pdf's) from Vasik which i will forward here later this weekend.

Itsu
   
img  NickZ
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #183 on: 2023-06-17, 14:20:32 »
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   Thanks Itsu, for confirming that also my grenade is wound correctly. Mine is wound just like your darker bolder print in your previous post. So, I don't understand what all the discussion is about.
   Maybe Vasik would like to be part of this forum again. And may need help, like I did.

   NickZ
   
img  NickZ
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #184 on: 2023-06-17, 14:44:03 »
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   AG:
   How about you wind up a grenade and show us how it's inductance is near zero. Because I don't see that in practice.
May be wishfull thinking, instead.
   So, how about it, will you build something, or just keep suggestng things to others,  that you have not tried?
   Maybe you know why 37.5 meters is the right wavelength. Or even 40 meter, instead. Why is that the "right" size?
Remember, there are no self runners running at the SAME frequency, or even close by. What does that tell you? Not much, it looks like.

 NickZ
« Last Edit: 2023-06-17, 19:22:56 by NickZ »
   
img  worldcup
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #185 on: 2023-06-17, 14:53:35 »
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I got my eye on this topic.

Won't be posting much in this thread to avoid distraction, But now i post just to cheer up up, apecore, and all others who got light of hope  O0

Regards
   
img  Apecore
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #186 on: 2023-06-17, 15:40:53 »
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Quote from: NickZ on 2023-06-17, 14:44:03
   AG:
   How about you wind up a grenade and show us how it's inductance is near zero. Because I don't see that in practice.
May be wishfull thinking, instead.
   So, how about it, will you build something, or just keep suggestng things to others,  that you have not tried?
   Maybe you know why 37.5 meters is the right wavelength. Or even 40 meter, instead. Why is that the "right" size?
Remember, there are no self runners running at the SAME frequency, or even close by. What does that tell you?

 NickZ

Nick,
I have one and had even lower ones.
I tried to get a grenade in half wave resonance.. 4Mhz.. but 3.7Mhz was the limit.

Edit:
https://youtu.be/uhxOdjuRgnc
In my vid it seems it is half wave resonance.
   
img  Apecore
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #187 on: 2023-06-17, 15:42:17 »
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Quote from: worldcup on 2023-06-17, 14:53:35
I got my eye on this topic.

Won't be posting much in this thread to avoid distraction, But now i post just to cheer up up, apecore, and all others who got light of hope  O0

Regards

 8)
   
img  Maxolous
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #188 on: 2023-06-17, 16:06:06 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2023-06-17, 14:44:03
   AG:
   How about you wind up a grenade and show us how it's inductance is near zero. Because I don't see that in practice.
May be wishfull thinking, instead.
   So, how about it, will you build something, or just keep suggestng things to others,  that you have not tried?
   Maybe you know why 37.5 meters is the right wavelength. Or even 40 meter, instead. Why is that the "right" size?
Remember, there are no self runners running at the SAME frequency, or even close by. What does that tell you?

 NickZ

Nickz,

I can see that you are vilifying AG. There's nothing wrong in what he said. Grenades inductance can bre as low as 20μH. It all depends on how they are wound

Maxolous
   
img  NickZ
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #189 on: 2023-06-17, 17:46:01 »
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   Max:
   As you think that AG is right, perhaps you should follow his advice. And show us how well your grenade shows zero inductance, instead. As I already know what his suggestions lead to, nothing, at all. And I don't need nor want his insulting advices, while he is just forever only guessing, while telling me what I should do. I have known him for years. Have you?
   BTW: If you think that near zero inductance is what is needed, please show us how well that works for you. So far much of what Stalker has mentioned can't be replicated, and I am trying to figure out why that is. Not by guessing...from someone that has never built what is being discussed on these threads.

   NickZ
   
img  forest
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #190 on: 2023-06-17, 17:47:08 »
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Do you have a working generator of square wave in the range of 1 - 5Mhz to power grenade ? Seems a hard problem to me
   
img  Apecore
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #191 on: 2023-06-17, 18:00:31 »
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Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023-06-17, 16:02:51
Have you tried to biffilar wind one  ?

?
   
img  Apecore
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #192 on: 2023-06-17, 18:02:24 »
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Quote from: forest on 2023-06-17, 17:47:08
Do you have a working generator of square wave in the range of 1 - 5Mhz to power grenade ? Seems a hard problem to me

What you mean " to power grenade?
Switching 1kV at 5Mhz is not a problem
   
img  NickZ
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #193 on: 2023-06-17, 18:11:31 »
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   Forest:
   I don't know who you are asking. But, yes I do have a working push pull square wave generator that runs the grenade. But no such generator needs to run at over 10 to 30KHz to operate the grenade.
   The Kacher is what runs at 1 to 2MHz,  or so.
   Running the Kachers at higher than 3MHz will result in less and less output, and therefore no effect to the grenade.

   NickZ
« Last Edit: 2023-06-22, 22:31:32 by NickZ »
   
img  Apecore
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #194 on: 2023-06-17, 18:52:58 »
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Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023-06-17, 18:30:17
this test

Ok,
So that Nick coil as you are showing is only 2 layers?
When doing this with all layers of grenade you get close to 12-15uH. 4Mhz...
Ps,  why do you call it Nick?

Ape
   
img  NickZ
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #195 on: 2023-06-17, 19:03:28 »
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  AG:
 That is amazing, but will it self run, or is it just another distraction?
Well, I can tell you that it won't fly, nor will it do anything at all, towards OU. So, why do you bring that up, now.
  More distraction...which don't have anything to do with me, or with my grenade, Nor with what we are looking for. A grenade and Kacher that work.
   
   NickZ
   
img  NickZ
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #196 on: 2023-06-17, 19:28:34 »
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Quote from: Apecore on 2023-06-17, 15:40:53
Nick,
I have one and had even lower ones.
I tried to get a grenade in half wave resonance.. 4Mhz.. but 3.7Mhz was the limit.

Edit:
https://youtu.be/uhxOdjuRgnc
In my vid it seems it is half wave resonance.



   Really, Ape? And just what could it do at those low inductances.  Perhaps you can show us how well it actually works. It's output, and such. I'll check your video, first.

   NickZ
   
img  Apecore
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #197 on: 2023-06-17, 19:34:25 »
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Quote from: NickZ on 2023-06-17, 19:28:34


   Really, Ape? And just what could it do at those low inductances.  Perhaps you can show us how well it actually works. It's output, and such. I'll check your video, first.

   NickZ

Well Nick,
We all know no one showed selfrunners yet but I tougth we were exploring the grenade together?
Unfortunately there is lots of discussion rather then a development in patterns.
But when I have some nice results I will show you.

Grt
Ape




   Ape: Yes, we are looking at the grenade, but in relation to what works. Not just trying to find the matched frequency, but what will that frequency actually do, at the output. So, that is what needs to be compared to, in the end. Otherwise, it doesn't mean too much, just by itself. Slayer states 143uh. Is that so low an inductance? Compare to your 10 to 15uh?
  Any ways, Ape, you now have 2Mhz grenade, now what?

   NickZ
« Last Edit: 2023-06-17, 20:00:24 by NickZ »
   
img  Apecore
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #198 on: 2023-06-17, 20:31:09 »
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2 or 4Mhz.. I think uts 4Mhz.
So that means I get a standing 1/2 wave inside my 37.5meter grenade.
That means if that occurs the voltage at both ends will be zero at all time.
So I would say to Max, thats not what will bring voltage across our load.

When its the 2Mhz then we have a 1/4 wave standing... means always max voltage between the two grenade ends.
This I think is best for output voltage.

Next step is the currnt.. when we have 200Vols at our grenade it would be nice to have 5Amps also.
Only Stalker or Ruslan have it... even w/o a standing wave.. or.. what also is possible.
Having a lower grenade frequency then you add your groundwire length in order to get the related total amount of wirelength.

F.i. when having a 1Mhz frequency at grenade you need to add an extra 37.5meter groundline in order to get a standingwave.
Unfortunately the voltage different between both grenade ends will be less then having the 2Mhz situation.

You could ask... how to ground a 2Mhz grenade?.. well I add also 37.5meter groundline so I get a half wave standing in total.
With still having max voltage difference between both grenade ends.
In how this standing wave situation will remain when the load is connected I don't know.
But I do know all we get now is some power from inductor and a bit from kacher.... probably only buck boost principle and no additional power from the unknown.

Anyway, I'm convinced we wont find the clue by just replicating like a lego build.. so discovering something by looking a bit different won't hurt I think.

I know I'm pushing the discussion often out of your thread scope as it is called replication....
When you don't want that, its ok for me and I will stop here.
Because I'm done with 100% replicating something w/o understanding whats happening... and in fact waiting for the lucky shot for someone to disclose.

No hard feeling your the regulator here and its your bench and thats also ok for me.

Grt,
Ape
   
img  Itsu
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #199 on: 2023-06-17, 21:52:47 »

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Some more info (video's with text) from Vasik, it contains transcriptions of some (old) video's, but more expanded, i think very useful.


Itsu
   
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