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Author Topic: The final answer...  (Read 87094 times)
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Thanks for the reply. Yep. I knew the flexibility in this latest design would facilitate quick additions.
I will reverse the connections on the B & C toroids. As a side note the A, B, C, D toroid halves are all wound in the same direction. The halves of each toroid are just cut to add the B & D sides instead of them being reverse or opposite wound from A & C.

Another note is: if the two twin lead verticals are running at 2 different frequencies how will the phase shift enact any event? I mean they are out of synchronization to start with. Kapeesh? or νόημα?

100 x 1n34a ordered for $10.00 and on the way.

@GK

I think you meant the two H-Rings are running at 2 different frequencies and how will the phase shift enact any event.

The "ideal" situation would be for the two H-rings to run at the same optimal frequency but 180 degrees off phase. That is the ideal where the pulse would hit the top then the bottom then the top and so on, creating enough spin in the vertical copper wire atoms to produce output. Lacking that capability, slightly changing one of the frequencies would create a simulated off phase but it will also create many crossover points or points of cancellation and all that is impossible to know about before actually trying it.

Man I wish my lab set-up was already done and was just working on OU builds right now. I am getting tired of construction and renovating, but am almost there via cutting some things out of the renovation just to speed things up. No fancy walls or anything that would be considered cosmetic. Just sticking to the essentials.

I am putting here four photos of the work so far just to show you what is involved.

Lab1.jpg is a shot taken from my office/lab desk looking through my closet opening to the next room where I will be making the lab. My son loves it because it looks like a secret room. hahaha

Lab2.jpg is a shot inside the new part showing a fresh electric feed on its own breaker in case things get hairy. Also you see a frequency generator there so I can try and figure out the best experimentation table depth and set-up since I would like to have the FGs and scopes visible in videos of experiments. The experimentation table is the one giving me the most grief. I am thinking off maybe having the FGs come out of the table at a slant to save table space and have them as accessible as possible but I am also thinking that this may give fodder to the skeptics thinking I am hiding things under the table so you see the fight I have with my set-up logic.

Lab3.jpg shows the wall I made to section off this part and now covered with shelving.

Lab4.jpg shows my new work bench area where I will be able to make coils and other builds.

So it's all coming together but I still got a ways to to go. The reason I am putting these photos up is because I feel so bad that I am trying to guide you through some testing and stuff without me doing the same on my end. Maybe I should open a new thread called, Building my OU Lab so others could chime in on some recommendations or show what they have as a set-up. I'll see about that.

wattsup


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My stumbling point is the operational frequency of such low inductance horizontal loops. Right now it looks like quarter wave is 43mhz. Is running at a lower harmonic like 118x slower going to be that detrimental? The freq i see now is 91.8khz. This means that the coils stay on for longer period than their wave length. So is a quarter wave length at a lower harmonic going to suffice? Looks good on paper but...


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@GK

Here is a progress photo. hahaha

Decided to put the FGs and scopes on top and at a slant. Put up a main switch and plugs all along the bench. Set-up all my wire types, finally I can actually distinguish what I have on hand. hehehe Still lots more to do but it is taking shape.

wattsup


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Nice setup!


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 :) I don't find the MEG tread I post here

MEG resurrection ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no50_5iSr2Y
from:
http://magengltd.webs.com/
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Got cooling fan in today. Can get laptop back on line.
Also have REC circuit on a board. Have to solder parts in place. Have the 4 and 10 windings saddled on. Will post pics. I have two further steps on these additions.


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Radiant Energy Collector circuit soldered and hooked onto middle horizontal loop collector antenna.
11 & 4 turn outer winding on sliding collar. Collar can be moved around to find node.

If I add another 4 turn winding on another collar @ 90 degrees to the left I will have a rendition of Don Smith's large coil.

These were simple additions. Just had to make time and analyze the best way to place onto larger coil to maintain flexibility in configuration.

The REC circuit was placed on a circuit board with extra room for additional circuitry.
One additional circuit will be to add a 74c04 hex inverter/buffer to accommodate an inverted 50% duty cycle at 1Mhz to 20Mhz using channel A as the channel B only goes to 1Mhz.
Next will be to measure the REC output when device fired up.

The schematic is a rendition of a magnetic flip-flop using this current device build.


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@GK

Great advance on your build and good thing to keep components as flexible as possible. I was hoping you would.

While you are doing that, I am going to build a simple grid on a 6 inch high thin plywood that I put some wire conduit on each end as a wind guide. On this 26" long board I will wind 4 vertical coils of 6 inches wide each, then put them all in parallel. This will permit me to slide the horizontals under the wind and test to see if there is a specific position that imparts best to the verticals.

If you read my post in the Interesting Reading thread, you may see that the LTPU may in fact be a collection of up to eight individual TPU sections. So being in a circle may not be fully required. But since your build is already done with the top and bottom H-rings already fixed into place, I need to know if this is a detriment as we must ask the question, "should the H-Ring position first be optimized before fixing them in place". You never know. Maybe just a 1/2" higher or lower may make the world of difference. I need to see that myself and report back.

Under the multi-section scenario, if the LTPU produced 800 volts at 1 amp, this means if all eight sections are parallel, each has to produce 800 volts, but if we take our cue from the MTPU cut away where after he cut the pieces he reconnected again and found a lower output voltage, this means not all sections are parallel because if they were, you would have the same voltage but less amperage as output after he re-wired the MTPU cut away.

So this confirms even more that the LTPU may be in 2 sets of 4 sections, (that ties in well when SM didd his hand pantomime of the two sections coming together) each set producing 400 volts at 1 amp then these are put in series to get the 800 volts 1 amp output we have seen in his videos. This would explain why he has two on/off toggle switches to turn the LTPU on. One per 4 section set. Also, two toroids, one per 4 section set. The 4 section set would equal the MTPU that had only one center toroid.

The other observation that is now really bugging me is "Why did he use his magnet around the outer sidewall?" If he had two toggle switches to turn each 4 section on or off, why would he need the magnet.

I don't think the magnet was ever used to turn something on in the LTPU. I think he uses the magnet as his only means of feeling a vibration from each of the eight sections to make sure they are on. If one or two of the eight were not working properly as evidenced by the vibration he feels when he approaches a magnet, he would already know his output will not be full force and stop the demo to fix something without divulging why to his visitors. Imagine if he was testing the output of each section to see why 1 or 2 of them were not working. This would give away to much of the build spec so of course he needed a way to test they are working without creating any situation where he risked divulging the function.

But we all know that if you pulse a copper wound coil on a plastic bobbin, regardless of how you pulse it, you will never feel the pulse if you put a magnet next to the coil, and the magnet will never stick to the coil. You absolutely need a metal core around our inside the coil to then bring your magnet and feel the pulses or to have your magnet stick to in. It will stick to the metal and not the copper.

So this brings up a whole new confirmation that each of the eight sections must have some metal inside for it to create both any vibration felt by the magnet swipe and the ability for SM to stick the magnet on the side wall.

You can appreciate the quandary this presents and also why I am planning this simple test grid where I can vary the H-Ring position plus slide in straight lengths of bailing wire to see their effects as I know the magnet can stick to bailing wire easy.

The magnet can also stick to a 9 vdc battery if the sidewalls were loaded with batteries but that is just responsible me accepting that both types of scenarios are always a possibility.

As another potential observation, in the cut away video, SM first explains that the MTPU in hand did not produce the speculated output and this is his reason for accepting to cut some parts off the unit to show the investors. I don't think SM's character would permit him to make such a move unplanned. It is therefore possible that the cutaway MTPU was specifically made with two sections missing, hence his lower output problem and hence he can then cut out those parts since they are duds. He knew exactly where and why he was cutting those two pieces. He made it look like a random act but I would not be surprised to learn he had planned the whole thing. That's why what we see in the cut away close up is more or less nothing save some wires that were passing through those dud sections to get to the next working section.

More soon enough. hehehe

wattsup


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I had posted this over the years all over the place:

The 2 paragraphs before [NOT CRACKPOTTY AFTER ALL]
http://amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html

After all, SM stated "Operation like a radio..."

Integrate that with this:
« Last Edit: 2014-03-19, 02:50:08 by giantkiller »


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@GK

I had prepared a post but I lost it before posting. So I start again.

That page you referred to, exactly, I agree at the sub heading. We are always reading between the lines.

So maybe slight ac on the center H-Ring might be suitable if this ring is going to be among two other pulsing rings, it will need to transmit to receive. hehehe The good thing is they should all be talking the same language.

Anyways, I will do some tests with this LTPU side wall grid I made to see if H-Ring positions make a difference. I am using 4 types of wire 47 turns each for 6" except the fourth which is 23 turns of Litz 1650 conductors. That's all I had in a one piece.

"Antenna size of a plate" would fit very well inside a 6" by 6" LTPU section. I will try both types shot ones in each section or long ones going through them all.

Basically, if you bring the TPU down to radio, the collector vertical is the big coil, and the top and bottom H-Rings are tickler coils and the center ring is the antenna stick'in its nose smack dad in the action and looking to rejuice the drive end.

For now, I will simply put an LED on each vertical coil since I am not looking for big pulse right now. Just to see some visual of any gain from fishing for resonance frequencies versus positioning. I'd be very happy to see a few LEDs fizz up. That would be a good catch. hahaha

My HP 8116A blew, it was going slowly and now its gone. That makes two of these 50 MHZ units I have that don't work. One shows Error A21 and the other error A31. I'll probably sell them on eBay for the parts, or maybe try to make one working out of the two since the errors are not the same. Hmmmmmm.

I still have one HP 8111A to 20MHZ. Had this one for ages now. Most effects will be in this range anyways. These FG prices have gone up man. I had an HP 214B beast that blew. Cost me $240. Now they are $800 and way more. The 8111As are a grand easy now. 

wattsup



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@GK

We all should have just taken a 6" high panel and wound a couple of coil over it to see all the dynamics of this and the ways it can accept impress. I am trying many ways and keeping track to then hone in on the most plausible, plus I am always going back to the LTPU vids for comparison. Saw a few new things, one of concern that I will mention further down.

You know when you have taken a few steps back, sometimes you can get a better perspective always keeping in mind......
 
1) parts of the side wall can be cut away and will only decrease total output
2) include the canon-to-canon analogy
3) compare to other SM models except the OPTU which I am sure he half tricked with his big lamps.

Picture this.

What would happen if you had 4 or 8 tesla coils. Pulse first primary 1, connect that secondary 1 to the next primary 2, connect that secondary 2 to primary 3, connect that secondary 3 to primary 4 and take output from secondary 4. That's one half of the ltpu. Do the same on the other half and connect both secondary 4 outputs in series.

Now this is not your regular tesla coil producing 25000 volts or more. These are heavier wound Tesla coils that would produce maybe 100 volts per level to get total 800 volts. All DC for it to be additive.

So far, just 2 1/2 turns of a primary wire at the end of one section works well. Also a one turn copper strip primary also worked slightly better. Frequency range was 1,2 MHz.

I put a metal strip on the start of the beige coil, then put that beige coil to the copper strip of the red coil then put a small 4 LED load on that red coil. See below. Happens at 11.7MHZ. So pretty high frequencies. At the 5K levels totally deadsville with my scope but I am not saying there won't be interesting things when driven harder with other ancillaries (hic hic).

I need to start simulating the antenna as well. Just to get some more insight into the limitations to more realistically look at those LTPU winds.

About the magnet swipe, He was using a rather weak Alnico magnet so I did some tests by putting three lengths bailing wire and paper. With just one layer of paper the magnet stick just barely, fold the paper in two and the magnet no longer sticks. Tried it on metal as well and same thing. This means the metal had to be immediately behind the outer cover. If there was a copper wire outer vertical coil there, it would never have stuck. So this is one more head scratcher.

My biggest quandary now is the next photo. When I saw this it was like seeing a Platypus play a banjo. Was not expecting it at all.

What the hell is that. Looks like there is no vertical wind on that part of the LTPU. Just those horizontals that are pretty fat gauge wire that coincides with the MTPU cut away wires that sprang free when he removed the pie.

This could mean back to the drawing board or at least part of that outer wind is made another way.

Probably another look at the ftpu is required to make a link.

wattsup



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As is shown this version has a split at the middle. More can be added at other circumferal positions.
I had posted years ago the tpus were horizontal Tesla coils connected in series. The discharge head is loop that goes into the next primary by way of going thru the centers of the secondaries. In my case I use iron wire to enable a weak field storage. This facilitates not having to achieve any resonance to attain a field. This is still in regards to the Kunel patent.


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@GK

Are you around these days to do a few other tests on your LTPU.

The main point is we might wind up realizing that the verticals cannot work with two pulsing H-rings located inside the verticals at top and bottom because you have a very long wire vertical and that H-ring will be creating so many inversing nodes that energy will just not be able to escape a long wind.

To test this, you would need to put a tap like your center tap but lets say on 10 more to the left and 10 more to the right of that center tap and parallel the 21 taps, tank it and pulse sweep the H-rings while the two other vertical ends are left open. This will give you 21 straight turns to try and get the same mix to move juice short distance but with greater amperage. From my own tests on my LTPU board, the rings on the inside of a fully wound vertical if ever it worked will be working maybe in the 200 or more MHZ range and output will be highly reactive. It would be impractical to count on that to produce the desired effect.

But I have done some testing with my FTPU mock up and now really see how the TPUs were built or the closest match since this works for all of them except the OTPU which I am not considering as a viable example. 

I did a big post for you that wound up being much to complicated but I thought it will be better to make a youtube and show you exactly first then post what I think you need to do with your LTPU. I think this will be a great boon to advance our understanding. So I made the youtube and it is here. We' ll see if the power to be decide to remove it. hahaha

Understanding the SM TPU #1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9chncFlT3KQ

Tesla made many patents and he never said to not put them all together, hehehe. There is the ozone patent that teaches damped inductive discharge, radiant energy method for but who said you can only use a plate in the air, Tesla coil to ramp it up and the world of parallel and series to mix it up. Pulsed side, coupling return side plus  radiant return side. DC with slight hash. All Litz "Wire is very important". I don't think regular wire will cut it.

Gotta leave for work and am jamming on Saturday, so maybe tonight I'll post you some written info's.
It's been such long six months with the Garage and New Lab and all, just need to unwind. hehehe
I think I'll start a jam on the TPU.

Wizzing,  wizzing were will it take me.
Pulsing, pulsing gain and control.

wattsup


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@GK

Son of a gun. I did something last night with my FTPU on the bench and I am trying to recreate it but no luck till now.  Shit I am sure I saw the kick action and will try again tonight. I won't get into the details because it would take one complete page.

I think by now you have realized that your build will not work with the verticals winds going over the two H-rings. It will be very difficult to produce the perfect nodal impress on those verticals to create a fluent and directional energy transfer. Let's say you have 300 winds of the verticals with two H-Rings (top-bottom) that makes 600 nodes to coordinate but actually it makes 1200 nodes because the vertical is hit on both sides. It won't work and will just create loading, cancellation and very little output.

So what I foresee is some changes to your build that I can explain if you want, but if you keep your unit as is, try this type of testing.

1) Use your FG as follows, Connect to one of the top H-rings, at half bring it down to one of the bottom H-rings and continue in the same direction then out. So the FG  will be on one half ring top and other half ring bottom.

2) Then you can experiment by connecting the verticals and the free H-Ring (top/bottom) all in series in all the ways you can think of, full circle, half circle then change level, etc, etc., until with all the verticals and free H-Ring you are left with two free wires that you will tank.

Forget the toroid for now. Just try this in as many ways as you can until you find a connection method that will start a kicking action. When you set the FG at an interesting frequency, leave it there for a good 2-3 minutes because at this learning stage it may take time for the kick to show up.

I was brainstorming on that kick and realized that the kick cannot be produced by all the TPU but only in part of the TPU configuration so I went and started to work again only with the rings and outer winds on my FTPU.

Then I saw this post I made long ago.....hehehe.

http://www.overunity.com/8141/steven-marks-secret/msg213907/#msg213907

Your main challenge is to make it work with your vertical covering both H-rings as mentioned above. That will be the Achilles heel of your present build.

You see, in the SM videos we do see on the top of the ring that there is wire there that is wound vertically yes but we never see those wires on the side wall. That means the verticals are like on my FTPU. Each H-ring has its own vertical wind so there is only one ring pulsing inside the verticals so that the nodal cancellation cannot occur. The other H-ring in the ring pair is used to pass what the verticals have collected back through the center of that set.

This is very similar to ottos' 20 turns with wire going through except that what was missing in ottos' idea  is the extra wire going through that creates the seed pulse. hehehe

The ideal method that I will have to try again to build another FTPU with two ring levels, each level having one of two turns, and one of one turn making three turns. The two turns carries the pulse, the one turn goes in series with the verticals. The ring that carries the seed pulse needs two turns to at least have one complete turn active. The other of only one turn does not need two turns because it is just reseeding the ring area.

Basically the TPu is a set of complimentary winds and rings that are in series, one feeding the other then put in a loop to output via a tank.

More to come during this weekend. When I get the kick again I will stop and make a video.

wattsup

« Last Edit: 2014-04-04, 15:07:00 by wattsup »


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@Wattsup,
If this is too small I can make a larger loop type build. My suspicion is this here has too many windings per horizontal.

The low turn count of the verticals on my horizontals match up with the loops you have in the youtube. This configuration has appeared very few times. The OU-ers never took ahold of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9chncFlT3KQ
« Last Edit: 2016-07-07, 08:11:53 by giantkiller »


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@GK

I'll answer your PM and post tonight when I get back from work. Just a small note for now....

While you have this small build GK-STPU, try to find another plastic tube of smaller diameter onto which you wind a Tesla Secondary (TS) (horizontal wound) that can slip inside your tpu. Thin insulated wire will be best as this will be a center pick up coil (analog of my center coil in my video but more directly related to a possible TS inside a 6TPU) and if possible put a center tap so you can test bifilar or parallel of two halves.  The other testing possibility with your STPU for LTPU analoging is to make four small bifilar pan cakes in the center as output and just pulse them outer rings. If the pancakes can produce a nice enough capacitor coil, they could be discharged back into the source for looping. So far there are three energies involved and present in the rings and the center Tesla to play around with in looping schemes.

In the FTPU rings, there may be a relationship with the Otto mobius. My past tests of the mobius showed that the applied frequency and the produced frequency are not the same as the mobius has a tendency to create a runaway condition where if you apply let's say 5kHz or 6kHz the actual frequency generated is in the 100 MHz, above the capability of my scope to freeze the waveform as it is just overlaying itself. This may be a desired effect in the rings under a mobius scheme and may also be the reason why SM related to the "inherent frequency" as 5 or 6 kHz. Yes it can be 5 or 6 but as inherent but the produced "working frequency" could be in the MHz level were I have seen all the effects of the FTPU.

It is only these days that I realize all those years of experimenting enable us to consider so many effects in order to try and find the common denominator in all the TPUs.

I am doing some ring side tests to figure out the relation between the rings. So I put an outer wind on a 3/8" polytube and this permits me to change the wires inside the tube as testing may require. (see image below)

wattsup



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@GK (or other OU brainers)

Thanks for your PMs, I understand what you are saying.

Let's play brain drain for a second here.  Do you have any comment on these side observations/questions.

On the LTPU the two black caps had a bleed resistor across each of them. If those caps were used to stabilize the final output of 800 vdc, do the resistors on the caps mean that the LTPU had to produce even more output to overcome the constant bleeding on those caps. How can that be possible as an OU device to waste energy in bleed resistors? What is the advantage?

OK, then in the FTPU, SM starts the device by placing his magnet (probably reed switch on/off control) then when he removes the magnet the 62 vdc starts falling in 0.1 volt increments. If the capacitor was dioded, this should not happen unless he had a small bleed resistor on that capacitor as well, otherwise what is consuming 0.1 volts to decrease the output.

I have been taking a much closer look at the SM FTPU video again and again. The more I look and figure out the wire scheme, the more it is becoming easier to see the whole device.

There is one thing though that is really confusing me about the FTPU. Why is the FTPU toroid so difficult to see the winding in the video?  See image below.

When you look at the  LTPU toroids, the windings are well defined as I have already mapped those a long time ago. You already know that and I trust that LTPU toroid is well etched in our minds so no need to post it again. But the FTPU toroid definitely does not have the same windings. There are what seems to be a pair of finely wound wire and one set of courser wound wire on the FTPU toroid. See the image below. If the windings were exactly like in the LTPU we would not be seeing this image but a well defined winding even if the image quality is the shits.

Is it possible that in the FTPU SM needed finer and more winds on the toroid to feed some inductance into the system. He used it again in the OTPU since the systems where very close match. But in the SM STPU or 6TPU, there is no room for that size of a toroid so he must have found another smaller toroid or even a standard high inductance transformer that he fit inside the wall, or, maybe he simply used  lot's of wire to create an inductance.

So what we need to know is if I have a transformer primary with an decent inductance of let's say 250mH, how much standard wire would be required to produce the same thing? Could this be a reason SM may have wound outer full height verticals because we know the ring to full verticals impress will be way to difficult to achieve, he may have been using them for simple added inductance. Maybe I would ask you to measure the inductance of the vertical winds in your GK STPU to see if they could be used as a such a source.

wattsup



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I need to know if all members can see this post.

The center toroids are Tesla coils and or Don Smith cart coil.

Attached pic is a looped shortwave antenna. The same winding exists on the SM-ftpu outer edge.


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I need to know if all members can see this post.

The center toroids are Tesla coils and or Don Smith cart coil.

Attached pic is a looped shortwave antenna. The same winding exists on the SM-ftpu outer edge.

What's inside the SM-ftpu coils, under the coil that you show here?

I never had any faith in Don Smith, but I would buy a car from him, and get a good deal too, or least think that I did.
   

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I am only going by the type of wire gauge and windings that are shown. Anytime there is a fine gauge secondary and low gauge primary I see a Tesla or high step up transformer.

Glad you could see my posts. This probably means all members can. Thanks.


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The last build pic that i posted looks like a looped CB antenna. Going down this route opens a whole new paradigm.


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The LTPU has 2 potentiometers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1eE13UXAKs
« Last Edit: 2016-07-07, 08:08:50 by giantkiller »


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The last build pic that i posted looks like a looped CB antenna. Going down this route opens a whole new paradigm.

You will notice that if you pulse through the ring of one or two turns before it goes in series to another coil, the pulse will multiply and overlay onto itself. That is pretty incredible just by using rings. It will be near impossible to catch a steady waveform on the scope because of the overlaying is so tight.

@GK I will be back to that soon as I finish some experiments with the Akula device since it is considered OU and there are some good cues to go by once you remove all the fat and keep to the basic principle. Maybe such a principle could be used in the TPU but I will let you know more soon enough.

wattsup



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