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Author Topic: ethanol as a fuel  (Read 20026 times)

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Buy me some coffee
I have some thoughts on using Ethanol as a fuel.

It maybe not overunity  8) but i am wondering if it's cheaper than gasoline to use for running a car and heating a house, i realize that if everyone started making this stuff then the raw materials would sky rocket but at the moment it maybe a viable way to save money.

Here's my thoughts.
Ferment, grain or sugar into 13% ethanol.

A quote from the net
Quote
To answer the question as directly as possible, 100 g of sucrose is 0.292 mol, and stoichiometrically 1 mol sucrose yields 4 mol EtOH, so you'd expect to get 54.0 g, which is about 68.3 mL.

1Kg of sugar will ferment into about 540grams which is 683ml

I can buy 1kg of sugar for currently 86p, so the approximate cost for 1L of methanol would be £1.26 assuming no other cost's  :( which there will be.

We are paying about £1.34 for a liter of gasoline right now.

There are cheaper raw stock for making Ethanol though, i could use potatoes or grain and malt the starches, i could also go around all the pubs collecting the slops they put down the drains and recover the alcohol that way i suppose.

From figures on the net i worked out that 2.6Kg of grain will make about 1L of ethanol.

Corn is about £200 per ton so 2.6Kg would be 57p, that's better, i maybe able to buy locally as well.

But i now realize gasoline has 1.5 times the energy and therefore we would need 1.5L of ethanol as opposed to 1L of gasoline this brings us to 85.5p equivalent.

That's a big enough saving if the costs can be kept down to turn the corn into ethanol.


Here's the process system i visualize.

Malt Corn and add any starch/sugar based material (Mashed Potato)

Add yeast an keep at 35 Degree's C while fermentation works.

monitor specific gravity until 13% is achieved

Vacuum down to 0.1ATM this will vacuum distill at 35 Degrees using the heat produced from fermentation and the condensate will be between 40-60% water ethanol
More importantly the liquor will be clean from solids.
Add Sodium Chloride to the mixture, this will salt out the ethanol leaving a water salt solution, decant top layer of pure ethanol.
There maybe a small amount of salt dissolved in the ethanol but no water should be present.
We can now vacuum distill @ 29 Degrees C again at 0.1ATM and separate the salt from the ethanol leaving 99.9% pure ethanol.

The water can be evaporated of and the salt can be reused, along with the fresh reclaimed water.
A percentage of the yeast/mash mixture can go back along with slops back into a new batch.

the main energy input would be creating a vacuum to 0.1ATM or 1.4 Psi

I am not sure if this system would yet work but maybe worth some investigation.


EDIT OK thought there maybe a cheap way of obtaining a vacuum, fill vessel with ethanol mixture and fill the rest of the vessel with carbon dioxide, then find a compound that would absorb the CO2 leaving a vacuum.

   

Group: Professor
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It is important to consider how you are using the fuel, not just which fuel you use.

www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2781-wood-gasification-4.html#post218680

Total heat energy of the fuel and the rate at which that energy is released are both critical factors.

At present shockwaves are almost totally ignored as an energy source, but they won't be for much longer...

RIM.



---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   

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Quote
At present shock waves are almost totally ignored as an energy source,
Not by the guy on YouTube who decided to open a port hole in his gasifier to see what was going on, he very nearly lost an eye  O0
   

Group: Professor
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Not by the guy on YouTube who decided to open a port hole in his gasifier to see what was going on, he very nearly lost an eye  O0

Not seen the video in question but backdraft is a dangerous phenomenon:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdraft

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWmChMHQ5kA

The key to harnessing such a violent explosive event is to shape the flow to provide laminar rather than turbulent fluid flow, we know how to do this using a De Laval nozzle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Laval_nozzle

Ethanol used in a thermobaric event could become quite a home brew energy source for generating power.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/thermobaric

Of course you have to know how to utilise both properties of the event, heat and pressure, using a medium that can be affected by both.

When we combine the properties of liquid ambient water and ambient air, in a certain way, we have a hydraulic and pneumatic system medium suitable for the task at hand.

This system is capable of both transmitting power through pressure shockwaves, and the recovery and transportation of heat for recycling via specific and latent heat physics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_heat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat

Quite an interesting little system...

 ;)

RIM.








---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   

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Buy me some coffee
This all reminds me of the V1 - Doddle bug engine, flaps open on the air intake, air is forced at flight pressure into the combustion chamber, the vents close, paraffin is injected and ignited using a spark plug, explosive pressure builds fast, once a certain chamber pressure is reached back vent flaps open allowing the high pressure gasses to exit via an exhaust nozzle, then back round again, incredibly simple to build i am surprised we have not seen model aircraft powered by them, would certainly wake the neighbors up   ;D

PS i quiet enjoy thinking about rocket fuels, i think the best i have worked out for cheapness and evoiro friendly is melted candle wax or paraffin wax heated by decomposed low peroxide(35%) with a silver catalyst or manganese dioxide bed, the decomposed peroxide being mixed in the chamber as an oxidizer.  :)
If i had a decent workshop i would be my way to the moon  :)
   

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If i had a decent workshop i would be my way to the moon  :)

Working on removing that requirement...

RIM  :)


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   

Group: Tinkerer
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Posts: 3055
I like the idea of using ethanol for fuel.

A small engine, such as a 4 stroke lawn
mower, makes an excellent test bed for
evaluating alternative fuels.

With ethanol the engine runs well with
from 70% down to 50% alcohol to water.
In fact water present in the fuel enhances
its efficiency.

A very hot spark at the plug is helpful.


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For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   

Group: Professor
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Posts: 2502
Everyman decries immorality
I like the idea of ethanol as a fuel as well, it fit's well with my desire to cover the planet with forests, providing the raw material amongst other things. Of course there are other methods of utilising biomass as fuel, such as gasification, which is why I am designing machines to utilise both gas and liquid fuels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomass

A small engine is a useful comparative device to alternate methods of utilising the fuel, which is my area of research. A typical ICE operating at 20% efficiency should be easily exceeded by other technologies after the same level of development $ (haha yeah right!). This promotes the possibility of electric drive motors and on demand fuel processing in the not too distant future.

It is important to remember that an internal combustion engine specifically excludes utilisation of shockwaves in it's function, or in other words, it is incapable of accepting the energy input because the pressure spike is excessive. A very useful characteristic if your a fuel producer because you are deliberately wasting a large part of the energy potential within the fuel, requiring more fuel to achieve the same output power levels than if you fully utilised the energy available at 100% efficiency.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking

RIM.


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   

Group: Professor
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*****

Posts: 2502
Everyman decries immorality
Synthetic Alcohol

http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/syntheticalcohol.aspx

Like all synthetic fuels, the manufacture of synthetic alcohol begins with gasification of heavy hydrocarbons such as coal, or lighter carbon resources such as natural gas, biomass and organic landfill waste — using a process that involves high temperature and pressure in an oxygen-controlled atmosphere.

Gasification produces a synthesis gas, sometimes called syngas (from synthesis gas), which, after cleaned, consists mostly of molecular hydrogen and carbon monoxide. The syngas is then passed over a catalyst, in a controlled environment, creating synthetic molecules, like the ethanol molecule pictured above left. The actual type of molecule depends on the catalyst used in the process.

Synthetic ethanol is chemically identical to bio-ethanol, the only difference is that bio-ethanol is made from the fermentation of carbohydrate derived sugars, followed by distillation, identical to the process used for making alcoholic beverages such as vodka or whisky; whereas synthetic alcohol is produced through a thermo-chemical process which begins with the creation of syngas from the gasification of a wide range of resources, and therefore not limited to grains and sugars.

Gasification: “To convert a solid or liquid into a gas, or become a gas.”

Synthesis gas: “A mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen, derived from the breakdown of carbon and hydrogen containing materials [hydrocarbons and biomass], used as a raw material for many chemical products.”

Hydrocarbons: “An organic chemical compound containing only hydrogen and carbon atoms, arranged in rows, rings, or both, and connected by single, double, or triple bonds.
Hydrocarbons constitute a very large group including alkanes, alkenes, and alykynes.”

Biomass: “Plant and animal material, for example, agricultural waste products, used as a source of fuel.”



---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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