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OverUnity Research > Benches > PhysicsProf (Moderator: PhysicsProf) > Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #50 on: 2012-07-29, 21:10:50 »
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My plan is that the final, 3rd version of the pump will be using a MIG-welding transformer as the stepdown transformer.

That is 18v 90amp output  :D

But to generate that kind of output the HV to the AV-plug needs to be high for fast charging of the cap and then a discharge into the primary with at least 10amps.
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #51 on: 2012-07-29, 21:46:26 »
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Thanks janost! That helps me a lot. One other question since I'm not too familiar with how ratings work on GDT's. I'm looking at some now from a suppler that have a 500 volt breakover voltage and a 10 amp peak current. Would that be a good choice or do I need lower/higher ratings?  (I posted this ? on EF too so I'll put any answers over there too).   1N4007's are rated at 1000 volt so if this is a lot higher than that I'm suprised these don't blow.  Maybe some microwave diodes would be better (or like you said just put a bunch of 1N4007's in series). 
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #52 on: 2012-07-29, 22:07:40 »

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I've always used The ultra fast version of the 4007 IE UF4007 code, same diode rating just ultra fast.
Although best to stick with what Jan uses really.
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #53 on: 2012-07-30, 05:28:53 »
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  Thank you very much for joining the discussion here, Janost, and for sharing your ideas.  I find your work most exciting!
(I'm awaiting a few parts for my build.)

  I see Woopy has just posted another vid...  He is combining ideas from Janost and others, now has both antenna and ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJBMDa1mbc8&feature=em-uploademail
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #54 on: 2012-07-30, 05:44:21 »
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Thanks especially to Janost for the highlighted comments --

Quote from: janost on 2012-07-29, 14:53:08
Hi
I'm the inventor of the circuit so I can answer some questions.

The easiest way to build the circuit is to buy a tennisracket bugzapper and scrap it.
Remove all parts on the secondary part of the HV-board so that there is only the bare secondary winding left.
Any diodes, capacitors, shunts and bleedresistors should be removed
The HV-capacitor can be reused in the AV-plug.

One end of the bugzapper secondary MUST be grounded and it also have to be the correct end so that it is the kickback pulse that is feed to the AV-plug.

Then I used an ordinary wallwart transformer as stepdown, in my case a 230v to 9v 300mA, 3VA.

The GDT is a fluorotube-starter with the RFI-cap removed and all diodes are 1N4007.

I used a 18650 Li-Ion cell 2200mAh.
This as you know can be dangerous if you dont know what you are doing so please use any other type of rechargable cell.
But I think that the Li-Ion impendance or ESR has something to do with the circuit working because I have not got it to work with a 47000uF supercap.
The currentdraw when the transistor is conducting is an enormous 500mA in a short pulse.

I have the 2 diodes connected in series as a voltagedrop because the blocking-osc is drawing 1.2A in every pulse if powered on 3v and will kill it self in the process if run continuously.

My starting voltage was a 3.99v, 90% charged Li-Ion.
The voltage kept dropping by 0,001v/min and I thought it would not work.

But also as the voltage kept dropping the currentdraw also dropped.
And at 2.81v it stopped dropping, the circuit draws the same current as it delivers.

This means 1.41v after the diode drop to the blocking-osc.[/b]

I also discovered that it works even better if its running on one battery and charging another.
It actually charging more than it consumes.

It also charges Lead-Acid cells even better than Li-Ion, NiMh or NiCd cells.
This could be the nature of Lead-Acid cells as they like to be pulse-charged.

I'm currently in the process of building a larger version using a 400VA transformer as stepdown and I have changed the AV-plug/GDT circuit a bit to increase the current in the stepdown primary without overloading the fluoro-starter/GDT.

The circuit below uses the GDT to fire into the gate of an SCR that discharges the full charge of the capacitor in the AV-plug into the primary and not just below the GDT firing voltage.
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #55 on: 2012-07-30, 09:01:12 »
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The thing with GDTs and breakovervoltage is the same as sparkgaps and 1kv/mm in open air.
Normaly infinite ohms, when they fire they become low ohmic and deliver the full potential for a few microsec.

This means in your case that the primary will be pulsed with 500v and that could be to much depending on what transformer you use.

A neonbulb fires att 100v and an FL-tubestarter at 200v.
Both are very easy to obtain if you cant find at GDT with the proper rating.

If you use a 120v stepdown transformer a neonbulb could be better as it will fire at 100v.
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #56 on: 2012-07-30, 09:04:22 »
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I also think that in the AV-plug configuration the 1N4007 can take more than 1000v as this it not the full potential in the cap.

As long as there is no strikeover from the HV side.
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #57 on: 2012-07-30, 09:34:43 »
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The Janost's device is an oscillator powering a transformer that rises the voltage to a value compatible with a "single wire transmission" of Avramenko's type (a single wire transmission is in fact a conventional circuit looped through the low terminal capacities that any conductor have relative to the environment).
The only possible source of extra-energy is therefore the GDT which could be a "gate" open to the ZPE. Nevertheless I wonder why a Li-Ion battery is required when a simple capacitor would be enough. All free energy devices with batteries are very suspicious. The stronger the battery the more suspicious the device.
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #58 on: 2012-07-30, 11:56:28 »

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Yeah i don't like any batteries either, i am not so sure about the neon GDT, because it seems to have found a required voltage, my candidate would be the transistor or the earthing system, it's been noted before there is something special with the 2N2222.

I am wondering if a voltage sweep on a variable power supply while monitoring current would reveal anything.
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #59 on: 2012-07-30, 12:39:21 »
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Preliminary testing of Janost's Electron Pump replication (without thyristor driven load) showed that at a certain point my battery discharge slowed when it approached the forward voltage of the two IN4007 diodes in series with the battery. The voltage started to stabilise at this point but continued to drop very slowly when measured with a DVM reading at 3 decimal places. The circuit failed to restart when disconnecting and reconnecting the battery at this point.

I tried 3 no and 4 no NICAD cells and in each case the circuit held at a little over 1.4V. The cells were 'flat' and deliberately not charged as I wished to see the effect of using a battery pack that had little capacity. The circuit did eventually die after around 10 hours of running. I will now try a fully charged set of NICADS and I expect these to run the circuit for a few days, probably even a week or so,as the power draw is extremely low when the battery stabilises.

Others building this circuit may find that an ordinary neon lamp (without mains dropper resistor) will work better than a flouro starter tube.

The earth connection did increase the AC output voltage from the step-down transformer. The initial waveforms were as per Woopy's. At the stabilisation point the waveform took on a more regular sinusoid appearance - see attached. Top trace is DC coupled from collector to ground and lower trace is AC coupled across battery. Photo 02 shows a diminishing output from the step-down transformer just prior to the oscillator failing due to the two series diodes ceasing to conduct.

The third stage of my testing will be to add the rest of the load circuitry.

Hoppy
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #60 on: 2012-07-30, 15:59:37 »

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Does Avramenko's Plug exibit OU?
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #61 on: 2012-07-30, 16:27:33 »
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Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012-07-30, 09:34:43
All free energy devices with batteries are very suspicious. The stronger the battery the more suspicious the device.

I know you are, I would be to :)
But it failed to run with a capacitor because the current draw is to high in each pulse.

The super electron pump is only 63mA in each pulse and should run with a supercap.

But then again you would say -why use a supercap? It should run with just the wires looped  ;)
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #62 on: 2012-07-30, 16:31:07 »
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I have invested in a 6V 4500mAh Lead-Acid battery today so I have something to charge.

No NiHM, NiCd or Li-ion. Just a plain sealed Lead-Acid MC-battery.
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #63 on: 2012-07-30, 16:47:58 »
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Quote from: janost on 2012-07-30, 16:27:33
I know you are, I would be to :)
But it failed to run with a capacitor because the current draw is to high in each pulse.

The super electron pump is only 63mA in each pulse and should run with a supercap.

But then again you would say -why use a supercap? It should run with just the wires looped  ;)


It should run a long time on a charged supercap.

Try tracking the voltage on a digital scope connected from collector to ground and log the peak voltage over a long period of time to see how the battery or supercap is coping with the load. You will see an interesting curve before the circuit stops oscillating. With pre-charged batteries of AA size, the circuit may will need to run for a few weeks before it eventually stops oscillating. I've had similar circuits running for weeks on end before death.

Hoppy
« Last Edit: 2012-07-30, 17:19:06 by Hoppy »
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #64 on: 2012-07-30, 19:58:37 »
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Here is my SEP (Super Electron Pump) built into an old server PSU.

I have 4 ignitioncoils, 3pc 20Kv and one highpower 36Kv.
i used the hipower one because it gives HV with a low power in.

I'll just solder the parts in and should be ready to go.
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #65 on: 2012-07-30, 20:11:27 »

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Janost,

Have you noticed a charge on any conductive objects near the device while it's turned on?
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #66 on: 2012-07-30, 20:20:14 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2012-07-30, 20:11:27
Janost,

Have you noticed a charge on any conductive objects near the device while it's turned on?

Yes, but only if I touch it.
I can light FL-tubes and lamps by holding them in one end and touching any part of my device.

You have currents in just about anything near by made of iron.
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #67 on: 2012-07-30, 21:59:25 »

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Quote from: janost on 2012-07-30, 20:20:14
Yes, but only if I touch it.
I can light FL-tubes and lamps by holding them in one end and touching any part of my device.

You have currents in just about anything near by made of iron.

Well, your entire device IS the positive plate of a condenser, with the ground connection as the other plate.  If the effect is strong enough, two object in close proximity will arc between themselves.  Elihu Thomson wrote an article titled "Wireless Transmission of Energy" which contained details of this effect in 1876 (the experiments were performed in 1875).  This is one of the effects that Tesla initially noticed in literature and his work led to his discover of radiant electricity, his magnifying transmitter, etc.

Thomson used a Ruhmkorff Coil and connected one leg to a metal table and the other to a water pipe.  He used a detector, which he attriuted to "Edison" (go figure...) which consisted of two electrodes in a box, creating a tiny spark gap.  One had a metal ball in it that was outside the box.  He turned the other until the gap was small enough to show an arc.  He could detect excitation of (?) anywhere in the building, even several floors from the coil.

I dabbled with this for a while several years ago.  One thing I never tried was shaping two plates connected to the HV terminal so that they focused the field and then place a smaller capacitor (i.e. two plates) in the middle to see if you could induce more current in the smaller plates.  Ideally, I think the field should rotate and you keep exciting it to build it up.

EDIT:
My take on this effect is that it shows that "displacement current", to use Maxwell's name for the current in the dielectric between two capacitor plates, either "induces" or is "converted into" conduction current when it encounters a conductor.  How do we get some gain with this?
« Last Edit: 2012-07-30, 23:23:14 by Grumpy »
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #68 on: 2012-07-30, 23:44:06 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2012-07-30, 21:59:25
Well, your entire device IS the positive plate of a condenser, with the ground connection as the other plate.  If the effect is strong enough, two object in close proximity will arc between themselves.  Elihu Thomson wrote an article titled "Wireless Transmission of Energy" which contained details of this effect in 1876 (the experiments were performed in 1875).  This is one of the effects that Tesla initially noticed in literature and his work led to his discover of radiant electricity, his magnifying transmitter, etc.

Thomson used a Ruhmkorff Coil and connected one leg to a metal table and the other to a water pipe.  He used a detector, which he attriuted to "Edison" (go figure...) which consisted of two electrodes in a box, creating a tiny spark gap.  One had a metal ball in it that was outside the box.  He turned the other until the gap was small enough to show an arc.  He could detect excitation of (?) anywhere in the building, even several floors from the coil.

I dabbled with this for a while several years ago.  One thing I never tried was shaping two plates connected to the HV terminal so that they focused the field and then place a smaller capacitor (i.e. two plates) in the middle to see if you could induce more current in the smaller plates.  Ideally, I think the field should rotate and you keep exciting it to build it up.

EDIT:
My take on this effect is that it shows that "displacement current", to use Maxwell's name for the current in the dielectric between two capacitor plates, either "induces" or is "converted into" conduction current when it encounters a conductor.  How do we get some gain with this?

I have done this as a party effect.
8 people holding hands together and lighting FL-tubes :)

I know that the electrisity is special and I am for shure trying to harvest it.
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #69 on: 2012-07-30, 23:49:32 »

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I outlined the plates involved in the arcing effect.  Second diagram shows an alternate location of the spark gap.  

You can attach more surface area to each side to increase the effect, or increase the voltage.  Compare it to Tesla's wireless transmission and see how the plates were transformed to serve his needs, but they are still there: top terminal and the ground plate.

If you are getting a strong charging effect around the primary transformer and transistor: DO NOT SHORT IT TO GROUND OR IT WILL SHORT THE TRANISTOR!  I have had very strong fields develop and the electronics worked just fine within, but when grounded the trannies always shorted.  (The energy across yor chest from arm to arm is very eery...)

Ideally, you need an easy way to change the pulse rate, such as a trigger from a freq gen.

Electricity follows rules like everything else.
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #70 on: 2012-07-31, 06:33:56 »
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good.
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #71 on: 2012-07-31, 08:13:37 »
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  At the EnergeticForum, Janost recently wrote:
Quote
I think I'll crawl back under the rock I came from and leave you alone.

Argue with people that have no clue how electricity works is not what I had in mind.

I my mind I dont giva a **** what you think.
I just want to heat my home and my mistake was writing on this forum.
[Referring to EF]

   Let's give him a better reception here!   I think the best way to do this is to actually do builds and discuss the results.
Thanks for all you have contributed, Janost!   
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #72 on: 2012-07-31, 10:19:41 »
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Quote from: janost on 2012-07-30, 16:27:33
I know you are, I would be to :)
But it failed to run with a capacitor because the current draw is to high in each pulse.
...

Wrong answer  :).
Capacitors sized for high currents, such those that we can find in switching power supplies, present a very low dynamical impedance and can provide higher current pulses than li-Ion batteries. You ignore the state of the art. The second rule that you ignore, is that a voltage measurement doesn't reflect the charge of a battery but it reflects the charge of a capacitor. So if the device doesn't work with capacitors, the  reason is that there is not overunity.
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #73 on: 2012-07-31, 10:37:30 »

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ex

We have already established the impedance of the battery is important, so why would a capacitor work, i do not see why it would, the impedance of the capacitor is totally different, for your last post to be correct you obviously can show me 2 charts, one for LI ION battery showing impedance at 2.81V and the same impedance for a cap, so let's have your charts or are you deliberately missleading people.

ex how can a device work without further depleting a battery not be overunity?
   
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Re: Janost's "Self-runner" Device: Replicating and Testing « Reply #74 on: 2012-07-31, 10:39:22 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2012-07-30, 15:59:37
Does Avramenko's Plug exibit OU?

I have led careful measurements on this type of device. I was able to monitor the input current, depending on a load connected to the double-diode at the end of the single wire. It didn't exhibit OU. The power in the load was equal to the input power. What I discovered is that the output at the double-diode terminals behaves like a pure current generator (i.e. when the load resistance is divided by two, the voltage is also divided by two).

« Last Edit: 2012-07-31, 11:52:56 by exnihiloest »
   
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