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Author Topic: Induction  (Read 51825 times)
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Kind of places science and pseudo-science on an even keel, doesn't it

Seems that way.

I am highly interested in your magnetic reconnection theory, and what happens when a magnetic loop gets disconnected. I've got a few ideas about this based on the writings of Bibhas De, but would like your thoughts.

Could you also comment on the SBM idea presented by EMdevices (collector thread) and expanded on by me. You seem to be a ham and RF engineer and might have a good feel for this.

Thanks


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Seems that way.

I am highly interested in your magnetic reconnection theory, and what happens when a magnetic loop gets disconnected. I've got a few ideas about this based on the writings of Bibhas De, but would like your thoughts.

Could you also comment on the SBM idea presented by EMdevices (collector thread) and expanded on by me. You seem to be a ham and RF engineer and might have a good feel for this.

Thanks

Bibhas De: back to the Companion Field!
   

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Wavewatcher

I am in agreement with your above post. Physics is turning more into religion. For example dark matter and dark energy....it's everywhere but you can't see it or measure it directly. You can only attribute effects to it.

Now if that doesn't sound like religion, what does. The big bang seems more an aspect of pure and real magic than creationism.

In studying electricity, we are first taught like charges repel, and unlike charges attract. But when we go to the nucleus of the atom, that postulate falls apart so we have to patch our theory and invent a term to keep our model from being contradictory. So we invent the "strong force" which keeps these particles clumped together. Then we write a formula for the strong force to prove it exists and everything is happy again, the model has been patched.

I won't get into it here but there is a model that makes more sense and is not full of patches.


Does "strong force" attract toward the higher mass or higher density rather than charge?
   
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Since I'm mobile again today, I'll make a quick comment on the SBM effort.

I think the discussion is a valid path. However, I am sure the small toroids in the LTPU and FTPU are NOT chokes(in the common sense). One only needs to look at a close-up of where the poloidal winding reverses to see. Then there is the shape of the core, the connecting wires, and the HV potting compound.

No, a CMC doesn't use bucking windings with only two connections to them.
 
The real question is what are they mounted on. Try a clean room ionizer with large yellow polyfilm caps to filter the noise on the inputs. This would make the other two wires in that small toroid connections to the home-brew cap plates and core loops within the coil form. The added magnet is placed to make Lorentz help axial flow.

In other words, these little toroids are mini TPUs.  

EDIT>> notice the bold word "NOT". Damned cell phone keypads and displays!
« Last Edit: 2010-08-13, 22:35:07 by WaveWatcher »
   
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Does "strong force" attract toward the higher mass or higher density rather than charge?

We are taught to believe this, take your pick......but I prefer a model that doesn't need such forces.

Here is my take on things, maybe not proven, but interesting to think about.

e.g. the nucleus can be modeled as an exit portal to a parallel dimension where all charge reverses therefore it can be thought of as the portal to the anti-world. Charge oscillates between these two dimensions, changing sign as it goes through the portal.

Kick a nucleus too hard and you speed everything up in the cycle and get the recoil of an anti-particle which is just the normal particle that didn't finish out it's cycle and enters this dimension prematurely.

Therefore atoms are energy clouds expanding through all the shells of charge, then collapsing back down to the size of what we call the nucleus, then reversing charge, expanding and repeating this cycle of breath in the anti-world.

 In the world, everything that is alive has breath, or a pulsation.

The nucleus appears to be dense because a lot of energy trails are trying to get through that portal.

Normally everything is quite balanced, but radioactivity may be a clue that something is leaking into this dimension.

Tear a big enough hole (critical mass) in that portal and you have a nuclear explosion.

Yin-Yang Symbol anyone? Just a two dimensional model of what may really be happening in the atom.

Just my deluded vision of things.


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We are taught to believe this, take your pick......but I prefer a model that doesn't need such forces.

Here is my take on things, maybe not proven, but interesting to think about.

e.g. the nucleus can be modeled as an exit portal to a parallel dimension where all charge reverses therefore it can be thought of as the portal to the anti-world. Charge oscillates between these two dimensions, changing sign as it goes through the portal.

Kick a nucleus too hard and you speed everything up in the cycle and get the recoil of an anti-particle which is just the normal particle that didn't finish out it's cycle and enters this dimension prematurely.

Therefore atoms are energy clouds expanding through all the shells of charge, then collapsing back down to the size of what we call the nucleus, then reversing charge, expanding and repeating this cycle of breath in the anti-world.

 In the world, everything that is alive has breath, or a pulsation.

The nucleus appears to be dense because a lot of energy trails are trying to get through that portal.

Normally everything is quite balanced, but radioactivity may be a clue that something is leaking into this dimension.

Tear a big enough hole (critical mass) in that portal and you have a nuclear explosion.

Yin-Yang Symbol anyone? Just a two dimensional model of what may really be happening in the atom.

Just my deluded vision of things.


Kinda like what Wilbert Smith said.  Hmm - interesting Ion.  Interesting.

Just had a break through and I feel so stupid.

Induction is not caused by precessing electrons, but it does appear to be.  For regular induction, this works out fine.

Induction is caused by precession of the medium.  Good luck getting that without rotating it.
   
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Kinda like what Wilbert Smith said.  Hmm - interesting Ion.  Interesting.

Just had a break through and I feel so stupid.

Induction is not caused by precessing electrons, but it does appear to be.  For regular induction, this works out fine.

Induction is caused by precession of the medium.  Good luck getting that without rotating it.

If there is no precession it is only static charge and can only be conducted and stored by dielectrics. If that has the same charge as you, you see a neutral charge. The electrons are just collections of wave energy, something like a soliton wave in standing water.
   

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We are taught to believe this, take your pick......but I prefer a model that doesn't need such forces.

Here is my take on things, maybe not proven, but interesting to think about.

e.g. the nucleus can be modeled as an exit portal to a parallel dimension where all charge reverses therefore it can be thought of as the portal to the anti-world. Charge oscillates between these two dimensions, changing sign as it goes through the portal.

Kick a nucleus too hard and you speed everything up in the cycle and get the recoil of an anti-particle which is just the normal particle that didn't finish out it's cycle and enters this dimension prematurely.

Therefore atoms are energy clouds expanding through all the shells of charge, then collapsing back down to the size of what we call the nucleus, then reversing charge, expanding and repeating this cycle of breath in the anti-world.

 In the world, everything that is alive has breath, or a pulsation.

The nucleus appears to be dense because a lot of energy trails are trying to get through that portal.

Normally everything is quite balanced, but radioactivity may be a clue that something is leaking into this dimension.

Tear a big enough hole (critical mass) in that portal and you have a nuclear explosion.

Yin-Yang Symbol anyone? Just a two dimensional model of what may really be happening in the atom.

Just my deluded vision of things.


excerpt from Wilbert Smith's book "The New Science":

Quote
Suppose we call this field of Change a Tempic Field to give it a name of its own, so that we can study its relationship to those things which impinge upon our awareness. Inspection of the Concept shows that if the Change is great the tempic field must be great, but we associate Change with our Concept of Time which is something against which we gauge a rate of change. Expressed mathematically this rate can be written as dS/dt which expresses the manner in which something changes with respect to time. More explicitly this should be written as TS where T is the tempic field operator, and S is the aspect of Reality upon which it operates. A convenient, though only partially adequate description of the Tempic Field is "Frequency", since we recognize frequency as being a certain number of somethings per unit of time, and is dimensionally the reciprocal of Time.
Heretofore we have always considered Time as an immutable flow against which everything evolving Change could be measured, whereas, it is really the converse which is true; Change is the basic concept and Time its derivative. Unfortunately, our mathematics are geared to the Time concept and will require considerable reworking to fit them into this more precise concept, but when this is done there will result a most elegant simplification in all the analysis involving time. In the meantime the transition in thinking can be made less painful if we merely regard Time as the consequence of the existence of a Tempic Field, and is by no means fixed.
It may be interesting at this point to mention something about the velocity of light. This quantity is generally recognized to be something rather basic in our universe, being the "rate at which space changes with time", but when viewed in the light of this new field concept is merely the tempic field intensity, or how the tempic field is distributed in space. We have been told that light doesn't "travel"; it "is", which is an idea not at all foreign to the field concept. Of course, it follows that the velocity of light will be a constant only under conditions of constant tempic field, and if this field changes so will the velocity of light change.
Having had a superficial look at the Tempic Field and its derivation we may now allow our Awareness to inspect the next parameter which is Divergence to see if it is something which can be recognized. Previously we noted that Reality had to extend to infinity from zero in order to establish Space and that unity, so far as Awareness was concerned, lay half way between. With the application of the Quadrature Concept to the parameter of Change or Tempic Field, Divergence is established, from which we derive a starting point a t zero and a finish at infinity. Between these two limits and through unity there is divergence, which we can recognize as the Electric Field, but with the exception that there is no point charge at the zero. Our Awareness, however, established the "charge" at radius unity, with exactly one half of it being "inside" and the other half being "outside". The real significance of this boundary will be apparent when we study the tenth parameter.
   
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However, I am sure the small toroids in the LTPU and FTPU are NOT chokes(in the common sense). One only needs to look at a close-up of where the poloidal winding reverses to see. Then there is the shape of the core, the connecting wires, and the HV potting compound.

Could you expand a bit on how you came to this conclusion, since it is one you are sure of. I am interested in your take on this, and feel you probably have more to say about the designs of these units, and that may have already been posted but I missed it, as posts often get buried.

Could you point to where the poloidal winding reverses?

I was suggesting that by design (to act as a line noise canceling device) a CMC has nicely balanced windings which would make it's use ideal for a Single Balanced Mixer ( at high audio, ultrasonic frequencies, and on out to 30 MHz) if the windings were used in a center tapped wiring configuration with the proper phase relationship established. Then any additional turns passed through the center could act as input to the mixer.

As far as I remember, HV potting compound, and an insulating strip was used in early CMC's before formers were developed specifically for that application. The approval agencies UL, CSA etc require a minimum of 1500 volts dielectric isolation between the windings and connections in such "across the line" applications. Although a bifilar winding would be better balanced, it would not meet with the required dielectric standard. SM used what was readily available.

Thank you for commenting on this.
« Last Edit: 2010-08-15, 01:30:09 by ION »


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Buy me some coffee
One thing that may or may not be part of the design, if and a big IF i am on the right track by phase delaying 2 pulses to create the kick, one thing i have already proved is that any part of the combined coils would need to be potted down tightly.
When i setup a coil system to test to get consistent results using a scan to find the kick point phase delay, even moving 1 turn only very slightly results in a complete retune of the system requiring a new phase delay to create the kick/explosions.

When  i built my coil in the explosion video and set the delay up to a set nS period if i pressed down hard on the coil and wooden former it was enough to alter the coil shape and thus would require me to find the new nS delay for the effect to continue.

In SM's case he would then have to re alter his wire delay line length accordingly, so it would have been most important for him to first embed the collector and control coils in the goo and then make the delay coils.

   
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Hi Peterae

Granted, in a good RF design everything must be tied down and spacing is important, the higher the frequency the greater care in this respect. But a look at the SM17 shows wires flying all over inside the unit. This would seem to contradict a HF design or one that requires careful attention to pulse shape.

BTW, I edited my earlier post to explain the potting compound.

Keep up the good work!


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ION,

I will answer your questions but the answers will be placed under my bench titled something like "Method for electric charge rotation (circular peristaltic pumping)".

Since this title is my explanation of the small toroid function and subsequently, a central TPU function, I prefer to place the information there.
 
Having never found the time to create a truly usable How-To (Covering most experimenter levels) with complete theory, my first posts will be pointed at your questions and I may not go far beyond those questions until I finish the originally intended package. The last time I shared a complete How-To with theory, test methods, results and equipment calibration certs, there were so many folks screaming obscenities and vomiting math there was never any indication somebody tried to follow the instructions.
(My first encounter with damnation threats from the religious right, too  :P. I'll never leave usable tracing info visible on posted documents again! )


EDIT>>> I'll change that topic under my bench to 'Small Toroid'. Showing the whole path may be a bit too much for many folks.

 
« Last Edit: 2010-08-15, 03:02:58 by WaveWatcher »
   

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toroids or not, Peter and I have produced interesting effects

   
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I have no doubts about that.

I am quite sure the way the small toroid works is hardly related to the relaxation burst shown on Perterae's vids. I doubt either one have anything to do with the book thumper's version of induction.

One thing I do know, for sure. We don't have a clue as to how many different types of TPUs have been seen. 'Types' as in, how many different ways to produce the required effects, with what components or general overall appearance.
I can imagine as many as six different application combinations seen on all the common videos.

Even if there are only three...... Do you think a guy who can build something three different ways DOESN'T KNOW how it works?


   

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Even if there are only three...... Do you think a guy who can build something three different ways DOESN'T KNOW how it works?


So true!

SM talked specifically about causing the electrons to drift in the wire - much of this audio has gaps in it as it was deleted.

What other means of induction is opccuring in the TPU's to induce current in the collector?


   
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G,

Have you seen these thoughts?

http://www.physics-edu.org/rightangle.htm

I hate to paint a target on my back but I am wanting to contact him and ask him what part of my old outfit he was in.

I think there are a few who understand the true nature of induction and related forces. Most can't tell you what charge and magnetics are.

Hint: Look at a bar magnet with the poles pointing right and left in your view. You see the magnetic dipole.
Rotate the same bar magnet so you are looking straight at the end of the bar. You are looking at a point source.

There. That should get the wolves howling  :D
   

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G,

Have you seen these thoughts?

http://www.physics-edu.org/rightangle.htm

I hate to paint a target on my back but I am wanting to contact him and ask him what part of my old outfit he was in.

I think there are a few who understand the true nature of induction and related forces. Most can't tell you what charge and magnetics are.

Hint: Look at a bar magnet with the poles pointing right and left in your view. You see the magnetic dipole.
Rotate the same bar magnet so you are looking straight at the end of the bar. You are looking at a point source.

There. That should get the wolves howling  :D


Good stuff, WW.

There's a bad moon on the rise...
   
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I'll say something to get the wolves howling.  There is no north pole or south pole with respect to magnets and magnetism.  Those are simply naming conventions that we use to make describing what we are doing in our experiments easier and more understandable.

People think that a magnet "has" a north pole and a south pole, or that there "is" a north pole and a south pole.  Many many times I have seen threads on the forums where people debate and argue about different properties attributed to the north and south poles.

Magnets have no north and south poles in the sense that the magnetic lines of force travel in circular paths that form closed loops.  There is no start or end or north or south to the magnetic lines of force.   Just like there is no start or end to a circle.

Certainly magnetic lines of force are vectors, they have magnitude and direction.  A magnet is simply a bunching together of those magnetic lines of force.  So you can arbitrarily say that when the magnetic vectors are pointed towards you it's "north" and when they are pointed away from you it's "south."

However, in the truest sense "north" and "south" only exist on paper.

MileHigh
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
MH,

Yep  agreed ;)

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OK - no north or south just plus or minus vectors

if I move a magnetic field and a conductor at the same time, same direction, joined at the hip, is a current produced?

If so, will moving "space" itself, or modifying it's properties so that it appears to move induce a current in the conductor joined to a magnet?
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
OK - no north or south just plus or minus vectors

if I move a magnetic field and a conductor at the same time, same direction, joined at the hip, is a current produced?


Is this a trick question?  :-\ Of course not...


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   

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Is this a trick question?  :-\ Of course not...


homopolar generator is one example

This is the trick question - it's freakin' loaded:

If so, will moving "space" itself, or modifying it's properties so that it appears to move induce a current in the conductor joined to a magnet?

Before someone shouts out something about moving "charges", consider that a moving charge is a "convection current" and by that alone it must have a magnetic field.  So, a current creates it's own magnetic field.  What's says you can not create a magnetic field by moving space itself?  Some will say, space is a vacuum and all that.  Yes, but this "vacuum" has properties such permittivity and permeability.  Propagate a change of the properties and what happens?  After all, isn't all that a moving field is? - propagating change in properties.

EDIT:
If EM fields have momentum and inertia, what differentiates them from an aether?
« Last Edit: 2010-08-17, 05:10:08 by Grumpy »
   
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Grumpy:

I am no expert on electromagnetics, but here is a good analogy:   You are at one end of a long hallway-style carpet, and you pick it up and you shake it up and down and you see the waves travel through the carpet.  So empty space is like a 3D carpet, and waves travel through it in the same way.  The carpet has stiffness and mass per unit area, and that's like the permittivity and permeability.  The ratio of the stiffness to the mass determines the speed of the wave, and the 3D "carpet" in space has a wave speed of C.

Also, the wave traveling through space is just the electric field and magnetic fields oscillating back and forth 90 degrees out of phase and in planes that are at right angles to each other.  Any point on the carpet does the same thing.  For the carpet it is the "velocity field" and he "tension field" that are oscillating back and forth.  Visualizing the velocity vector in the carpet is easy.  Visualizing the tension vector is a little bit more difficult.  When you are traveling with the wave on the peaks, that's where the tension in the carpet is at its maximum and the velocity is at its minimum.  When you are traveling along the wave at the the "neutral" height, that's where the tension is at its minimum and the velocity is at its maximum.  The velocity vectors and the tension vectors are 90 degrees out of phase, just like in an EM wave.

in both cases the waves are the manifestation of the flow of energy.  When you shake the carpet up and down energy is flowing out of you and down the length of the carpet.

Not sure if that helps but what the hey!

MileHigh
« Last Edit: 2010-08-17, 05:37:54 by MileHigh »
   
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Since we all understand the true non-nature of magnetic polarity don't you think this understanding should be extended into the realm of charge?

There is no charge beyond zero except non-zero (good luck finding zero charge anywhere) ....

Going by numeric amounts, negative charge isn't negative. It is only less than the 'positive' charge in a comparison. If true, 'neutral' charges are neutral compared to what?

I'll lock my doors and go to bed after this one....

Electric and magnetic are not separate because they are just two different perspectives of the same thing, just like the bar magnet in my example.
Does that make induction an easier picture? It did for me.
   

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Agreed WW.

And IMHO, to date there has not been a good definition for what "charge" is.

.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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