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Author Topic: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit  (Read 460622 times)
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Hmm ...

I just looked at the so called new RA circuit for the first time .... I'm sure I've seen this before in a PDF for testing mosfet avalanche on higher amperage loads .... I might have even posted it at Energetic Forum in the early days, I'll have to find it now.

What a Joke over at OU ..... please see attached from several months ago ...

Quote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Hartmann" <xxxxxxxx@googlemail.com>
To: "Glen Lettenmaier" <xxxxxxxx@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: Please Explain


I just don´t want you to have a fight again over the Rosemary circuit.
Also you hacked my forum you said...

She has shown me her new circuit already, but I pointed out
to her the grounding measurement problem.

Regards, Stefan.
P.S. You can use a different user name, but please don´t start
flamewars again !

2011/1/22 Glen Lettenmaier <xxxxxxxx@comcast.net>:
> Hi Stefan,
>
> It appears the people who aligned themselves on Rosemary Ainslie side of her
> continuous deceptions and lies are again being trashed.
>
> Rosemary Ainslie's "NEW" blog http://newlightondarkenergy.blogspot.com/
>
> Four Months have passed now ....
> 1) Where is Rosemary's published COP>17 circuit schematic or diagram of her
> project anywhere?
> 2) Where is Rosemary's published COP>17 circuit photograph or image
> anywhere?
> 3) You the "MODERATOR" unlocked a thread I locked to stop the insanity, and
> YOU the "MODERATOR" posted she had "NEW" information to share ... where is
> it, where are they ??
>
> 4) Why did you ban me for defending others plus my dignity and reputation
> against a 100% "VERIFIED" on five forums liar, cheat and a fraud also you
> totally siding with Rosemary and not believe anything from me or other
> members about our close personal experiences with her of your forum.
>
> What you have done to others and myself is unjust and unfair being there has
> been no personal response from you on WHY.
>
> Please, lift the ban to your forum on those you have with the exception of
> Rosemary ..... I will not ask again and will go on to a more productive
> environment leaving you alone with just these comments.
>
> Sincerely,
> Glen



--
Gruss, Stefan.

---
Dipl.Ing. Stefan Hartmann
Keplerstr. 11 B
10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 (0)30- 345 00 497
xxxxx@harti.com
xxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com
www.overunity.com www.overunity.de www.harti.com www.deutscheahnen.de
www.ufomovies.info www.free-energy.tv www.Ruhleben.com www.movieclipsfree.com


It's obvious that if I did have the capability of hacking his web site why would I tell him or anyone I did or could ??

So I can come back under another name not the screen name I've used exclusively for over ten (10) years ??

Personally I won't tell you all what I think about it ..... he's not worth my time, and when I get my www.opensourceresearchanddevelopment.org web site up to use in conjunction with my http://www.livestream.com/opensourceresearchanddevelopment there will be a special section for web sites such as his OU.com and premium web sites like here at Over Unity Research and a few others.

Best Regards,
Glen
 ;)

   
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Hi Glen,

Funny thing is that Rose isn't even using her MOSFETs as switches any more.  Now it's basically a linear-mode oscillator.

I sort of doubt that any of the MOSFET houses would do a test circuit that directly paralleled five parts without any source resistors or individual gate resistors as Rosemary seems to have done.  After all...they are well known to break into large spurious oscillations if you do that!  Anyway, there is absolutely nothing at all proprietary about Rose's circuit, especially since it seems to change weekly and she really has no clue how or why it does what it does, it seems.  It's all magic and zipons to her.

Take care, fellow bannster!  I really don't miss OU or Energetic Forum on little bit.  There are a lot fewer total idiots over here and Poynt is really pretty competent and level-headed and without ulterior agendas or politics, as far as I can tell.  O0

Humbugger  (Bryan)
   
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In the Rosie Follies Rosemary is once again trying/struggling to understand how an inductor works spurred on by a debate between Magluvin and Neptune about this matter.  About two years ago myself and Poynt must have tried about 20 times each to explain this concept to Rosie.  We tried and tried and tried and tried and failed.

Magluvin and Neptune are making real progress in understanding the Enigma of the Discharging Inductor.  Keep at it dudes, don't give up, you are definitely on track.

Going back to the project, Rosemary still believes that there is something "special" about the oscillation.  The truth is that there never was anything special about it.  It casts doubt on Rosemary's "experts."

Slowly but surely we are converging on the truth as outlined by Humbugger.  This is much ado about nothing and it is under unity all the way.  There is nothing to "study" relative to the project but there is a lot for Rosemary and others to study if you want to have an understanding of  electronics and the associated energy dynamics.

This whole deal is a big mistake that's been dragging on for about 10 years.

MileHigh
   

Jr. Member
**

Posts: 69

This whole deal is a big mistake that's been dragging on for about 10 years.

MileHigh

Never-ending story with the attention Queen ! It's all about her! I am sure she already realized and feeling inside, she is wrong, but one thing is sure, she will never admit it.

Until wide masses could use internet, she will have the necessary attention with any claim, and some fuzzy theory and bad measurement, nobody will care,hence most of the hypers/followers are incompetent in the subject.

I'm quite amazed how many hours you guys spent on her.   :o


---------------------------
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery
   
Group: Guest
From Rosemary posted at OU.com today...

Quote
Guys - I've just read through Hamburger's long awaited debunk courtesy a simulated number.  He's his own best critic.  Here's a sample.   'I love to pierce it incisively until they are naked, if not bleeding.'  Golly.   From where I sit I'm still unscathed and fully dressed. He needs to revisit some of his claims.  One proposal is that the MOSFET is fully turned on at some stages to allow for the - as he puts it - stellar - or was that solar? - increase in output.  This would mean that our little embedded Zener would have to take the full value of 60 amps, during the 'off' time and the transistor itself - something marginally less than 60 amps, during the 'on' time.  Pretty robust for something that's rated at plus/minus 6 amps.  

The "it" that I love to pierce, which she conveniently declines to quote, is the cloud of obfuscating bullshit suurounding and concealing the truth of the way the circuits operate and the real measurements of Pin and Pout.  As with almost everything she writes and publishes, there isn't much one can do except speculate and guess as to what is really going on on her bench.

The "proposal" that there may be times when the MOSFET is turned on and that maybe that was what was happening when Rosemary saw such huge heat in the load that she always quickly shut the experiment down was fully qualified by me as pure speculation and an educated guess.  Where she get this 60A number from anything I wrote is a complete mystery.

Obviously to anyone with 1/10 of a brain, with a DC supply of 75V and at minimum a series resistor (the load) of 11.11 Ohms, the maximum current in the circuit would be I=E/R or 75/11.11 which ain't by my math 60A nor did I ever say anything of the kind.  What I said was clear and that was that each MOSFET would only have to support 1.33A if indeed they were all fully turned on and that there would then be only about 500W in the load resistor at most.

She is obviously taking full advantage of the fact that I cannot post a reply over there to totally falsify what I said, take quotes out of context and otherwise generally further the game of obfuscation and lies.  Where does she get this totally off the wall stuff?  60A?  Where did I say any such thing?

Quote
But that aside - of interest is this obsessive need to disprove this.  I think that what he finds most objectionable is that I am a self-confessed clutz who has no right to advance anything at all.  He's right of course.  But it's precisely because I am THAT mediocre that I have every confidence that this technology and these concepts can, eventually, be understood.  I rather rely on this fact.  Here's the thinking.  If I can get my head around them - then anyone can.  It clearly does not require brilliance.  Just a little bit of common sense.  And I'm the FIRST to admit that we've shown nothing new.  

Getting huge amounts of heat without any drain from the power source is what Rosemary thinks and claims she has demonstrated.  That would be something new.  It defies all forms of commion sense and the basic laws of physics and all the observations of electrical engineers and physicists for the last 300 years.  There is no "eventuality" involved in understanding just how Rosemary's circuit works...that is what I'm trying to clearly show.  It is all very well understood and predicatble and not overunity.

Quote
It seems that the simulators do exactly what we show.  The difference again is only in this.  Humbugger dare not show the actual values applied to the sundry components.  He tells us that he tweaks them.  And, self- evidently, he tweaks them to favour under unity.  Which is hardly surprising given that he seems to base his sense of self-worth - on an effective argument to deny all.  And he DARE not show the phase relationships between the shunt and the batteries - this because they'll cancel out and dribble to death in no time at all.  He then shows what he calls 'rosiewatts' and - far from being rosy - they're rather sick.  And they seem to cost way, way too much.   One thing that springs to mind is that he justifies increasing the measured inductance at the shunt from 110nH to 110 nH x 4.  By rights this should divided - as that's the TOTAL that is measured.  And so it goes.  An adjustment here - a oversight there - a variation everywhere.  What's new.

The values in the sim were taken directly from Rosie's published schematics wherever possible.  Where I deviated or added best guesses it was fully explained exactly why in every instance.  She does not ever show super-critical and important things like the inductance of the battery wiring, but has given some indications that allow us to estimate it from the lengths of wire she has used.  Even Stefan Hartman (probably after reading my posts here) pointed out to her that the sole reason she keeps seeing hundreds of volts AC as the "battery voltage" is simply due to the long battery wiring scheme and her measuring point at the wrong end of these long wires.

Her remarks about me adding the four reported shunt inductances are totally incorrect.  That would add up to 440nH and I fully explained that all I did was add a few nH to her total of 110nH to account for the wire lengths as observed in her picture of the bench setup,  I think I clearly said I used 180nH, but, as it turns out, the value here makes extremely little or no visible difference to the circuit operation; only the falseness of the current measurement waveforms.

Regarding me "tweaking" any values, I'll say two things:

1)  The circuit immediately ran in the very same mode as Rosemary's and with very nearly the exact same waveforms she reports, including continuous oscillations, the very first time I turned it on.

2)  Where I tweaked was only to slightly adjust the amplitude of the voltage on the load resistor to closely match her reported 40W output heating power.  I fully explained that, as well and it didn't take much of any tweaking.  In fact, what I tweaked was simply the estimation of her battery wiring inductance which no one including her knows the true value of anyway!  Her implication...make that outright statement...is that I spent a great deal of time tweaking values so that the circuit would not show overunity.  That is complete bullshit.  The very first and only power in/out measurement estimates  were directly and honestly reported with a complete explanation of the method used.  It's not as if my initial testing yielded copious amounts of overunity and I spent huge efforts trying and finally succeeding to tamp that down to 75%.  Now watch her leave out the first 4 words of that last sentence and quote it in her blog and a post over at Hartmann's site.   C.C

The circuit is simply operating as a linear oscillator and the output is running into a tuned network consisting of the load inductance, battery wiring inductance and MOSFET output capacitance.  It is operating in what RF design engineers (of which I am one) call class C operation and the expected and measured efficiency is exactly in agreement with well-known data gathered both theoretically and emperically over a hundred years of RF power design work by many experts and academics.

Regarding daring not to show the "phase relationship between the shunt and the batteries", there is no phase relationship.  The batteries are a DC voltage.  In fact, the tiny AC ripple that is actually present on the batteries due to their finite internal resistance is indeed exactly 180 degrees out of phase with the current, as would always be expected, since the lowest points of the battery ripple obviously will correspond to the highest points of current draw and vice versa.  This will be true no matter what circuitry is being evaluated.  It's called Ohm's law.

Humbugger
« Last Edit: 2011-03-22, 00:32:28 by humbugger »
   
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Obsession

I am not in any way obsessed with Rosemary and her circus.  I have made my best honest effort to "put paid" to the mystery and confusion that surrounds it.  I made a straightforward simulation based on the best information available and a few completely reasonable estimates where direct information was absent.  The simulation behaved precisely as her circuit does with the same approximate frequency of oscillation, very similar amplitudes (sensitive primarily to changes in the dominant output load inductance which is not that of her special load resistor but rather the battery wiring length) and shows virtually the same waveforms and shapes as the hardware circuit.  All that occurred immediately upon starting the very first simulation schematic.  Coincidence?

To prove that I am not obsessed, this will be my last commentary and work regarding Rosemary Ainslie.  I have done what I could in the best way I know how to reveal what the circuit is doing and to explain how and why.  I can move on now and simply become once again a casual and mildly-entertained observer of the ongoing follies.   I suggest that others do the same and I see that many already have long since.  Thanks to all for watching and hopefully learning something here and there.

Humbugger

P.S.  I have spent probably 20 hours over the last six months studying, debating and commenting on this matter on various forums and in my spare time.  I have a lot of spare time, I confess.  Rosemary, on the other hand, has spent ten years obsessing and writing and "publishing" and arguing and avoiding doing simple tests and trying unsuccessfully to get even one single named academic to even look at and publicly comment on her insane and completely amateurish uneducated "work" and its associated millions of words of undecipherable drivel.  Who is obsessed?
« Last Edit: 2011-03-21, 23:53:40 by humbugger »
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Don't quit now Hum.

I haven't yet posted my sim results.  ^-^

.99

 


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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What a deal Hum,  you get blocked and don't have a say, and the women rails on you.  I feel for you pal.  Sounds like she's the obsessed one.

There are so many unique circuits out there, and when the right "personality" stumbles on one of these they can make such unbearable "noise"  (to the educated of course)  I just look and shake my head, that way nobody sees me and can't judge me  :)

EM
   
Group: Guest
No...Poynt...

I am done with it.  You will no doubt have trouble as you have already mentioned getting sustained oscillation unless you introduce some series L (500nH ~ 2uH) into the gate and use a low resistance there.  

This is the one arguable weakness in my simulation and I'm not at all afraid to say so myself.  Long ago in my earlier sims I discovered this fact.  I attribute the real reasons for continued oscillation to two things that are beyond knowing at this point:

1)  The impedance and length of the gate drive cable

2)  The coupling between the same gate drive cable and the load, which appear to be in quite close proximity in the photo of the test setup.

As an honest person, I will just say in that regard that the circuit, in hardware on Rosemary's bench appears to oscillate freely and that that fact is well accepted by all and is not at all surprising given the layout and the countless unaccounted-for possible couplings and parasitic L's and C's.  

Furthermore, the Spice models of MOSFETs fail to implement or account for the non-linear capacitance change in Coss and Crs dependent on voltage, which may well have something to do with the tendency toward oscillation in real hardware.  I did what was necessary to get the circuit to run virtually exactly like Rosemary's circuit does so that I could demonstrate clearly three things:

1) The battery voltage measurements she relies upon are completely bogus due to the long battery wires.  Vb is a DC quantity with only miniscule AC component due to battry internal resistance.

2)  Her current measurements are completely bogus as long as the shunt contains inductive reactance that far overwhelms its resistance.

3)  Properly measured, the battery current is net positive and indeed power in excess of that appearing in load dissipation is drawn from the battery in exact accordance with the behavior of a class C RF common source feedback MOSFET oscillator.

By all means carry on as you see fit, but I'm through with Rosemary and her time-wasting lies, obfuscation and wild incorrect assertions.

 :)

Hum

@ EM  You are a wiser man than I, obviously.   ;D

THIS POST IS COPYRIGHTED AND MAY NOT BE REPRODUCED, QUOTED OR COPIED IN WHOLE OR IN PART TO ANY OTHER INTERNET LOCATION WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF THE AUTHOR  :D
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
No problem Hum.

You've done some very good work in your circuit descriptions and getting the sim to work. Kudos.  O0

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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I see you over there at OU.  Funny how your sim is accepted with kudos by Rosemary while mine is dissed as being a completely tweaked lie (despite tat they show the same behavior).  Great science there, Rosemary.

Since I used only a single 1uS pulse, non-repeating, to start the oscillations, I never studied the assertion that there is zero shunt current when the MOSFETs are turned hard on.  Anyone who believes that one should be buying oceanfront property in Nebraska.

Can;t wait to hear "MAG's" explanation of how this works.

Humbugger
   
Group: Guest
Can;t wait to hear "MAG's" explanation of how this works.

Humbugger

Ohhh... I am so rusty here and I only did a quickie look up....

But I believe that Rosie's magic circuit has a pair of poles on the left side of the S-plane.



Quote
In mathematics and engineering, the S plane is the name for the complex plane on which Laplace transforms are graphed. It is a mathematical domain where, instead of viewing processes in the time domain modelled with time-based functions, they are viewed as equations in the frequency domain. It is used as a graphical analysis tool in engineering and physics.

A real time function is translated into the 's' plane by taking the integral of the function, multiplied by e − st from -\infty to \infty, where s is a complex number.

One way to understand what this equation is doing is to remember how Fourier analysis works. In Fourier analysis, harmonic sine and cosine waves are multiplied into the signal, and the resultant integration provides indication of a signal present at that frequency (i.e. the signal's energy at a point in the frequency domain). The 's' transform does the same thing, but more generally. The e-st not only catches frequencies, but also the real e-t effects as well. 's' transforms therefore cater not only for frequency response, but decay effects as well. For instance, a damped sine wave can be modeled correctly using 's' transforms.

's' transforms are commonly known as Laplace transforms. In the 's' plane, multiplying by s has the effect of differentiating in the corresponding real time domain. Dividing by s integrates.

Analysing the complex roots of an 's' plane equation and plotting them on an Argand diagram, can reveal information about the frequency response and stability of a real time system.

So Rosie, you have been fooled by two bumps on your S-Plane.  Who woulda thought???

That the way the cookies (and the Zipons) crumble!!!!   :'(

MileHigh

P.S.:  Some of you hot edgy free energy jockeys just learned how little you know about engineering and the Real World.  Keep your hands in your pockets and marvel at the blinking lights.
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
I see you over there at OU.  Funny how your sim is accepted with kudos by Rosemary while mine is dissed as being a completely tweaked lie (despite tat they show the same behavior).  Great science there, Rosemary.

It's probably only because your sim was not shown with a few cycles as I did.

Quote
Since I used only a single 1uS pulse, non-repeating, to start the oscillations, I never studied the assertion that there is zero shunt current when the MOSFETs are turned hard on.  Anyone who believes that one should be buying oceanfront property in Nebraska.

Can;t wait to hear "MAG's" explanation of how this works.

Humbugger

Indeed, I am having difficulty figuring out why her shunt trace is at zero. Mine is showing about 1.5V or so, and hey, 0.25/11 x 72 = about 1.6V. It would seem what I'm showing is about right.


.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
Group: Guest
Stefan, Rosemary:

Quote
So he might have tuned his simulation for underunity.

Humbuger did not have this in his sim.

As I said, if we have a new effect here it can not be simulated by simulation software just
baded on standard theory.

To state that Humbugger "might have tuned his simulation for under unity,"  comments that both of you have made, are nonsensical foolishness.  I'm pretty sure that neither of you even understands how the simulations work.  So neither of you even have any basis for making your statements, and your statements are wrong.  The is simply no such thing as "tuning a simulation for under unity."  By the same token there is no such thing as the simulation software being "over unity aware" which is a question that Rosie raised many months ago.

The simulation simply runs based on the circuit and the initial conditions.  That's it, there is no control over it beyond that.

Stefan, you are morally bankrupt when you talk about Humbugger's comments after you banned him from your site because he can't respond directly.  Speculations about your motives have already been explored.  If you had real character you would let him debate with you on your site if he was interested, but he has clearly indicated that he is not interested anymore.

Stefan, there is no "new effect that cannot be simulated."  One more time this is no more than a faint-hope idea in your and Rosie's heads that has no rationale or basis in fact.  It's nothing more than free energy fantasy talk about a test setup that was incorrectly measured by an incompetent team of "experts" in South Africa.  They are incompetent because for months now the statement was made that the battery voltage had to be measured directly on the battery terminals and that was never done.  That's just one example.

The truth will prevail and it's an important principle that must take precedence over any fantasies about zero net energy consumption from the battery bank and Zipons running around in Rosie's head.

The bottom line is that neither of you are technically competent to understand what is truly going on here and Rosie showed her moral bankruptcy by refusing to make any alternative tests or take heed of the advice about where to place her scope probes.  Now, in true free energy fashion, the setup has been disassembled, the DSOs have been returned, and chances are Rosie will never again be able to get a university to come on board and allocate space, equipment, and resources to her "project."  She had ample time to make proper measurements when she had the equipment but she refused to do this and now everything is gone.  The opportunity to make proper measurements is lost and Rosie engineered this.  She can now hide behind this and point to her squiggly-lines in her DSO captures and state that it's an "effect that should be investigated further."

I'll repeat again, this is just a whole lot of nonsense over an amplified MOSFET circuit spontaneously going into oscillation.  It is a well known phenomenon associated with most amplifier circuits that means nothing at all.

The ship has sunk as far as I am concerned and the good guys and the truth won.

MileHigh

P.S.:

Stefan said:

Quote
Maybe the nichrome wire in the heater element or the spiral shape
of the heater element also plays a role here. This could not be seen in any simulation
software...

Groan....  That's you Stefan clearly showing the world that you have no idea what you are talking about.
« Last Edit: 2011-03-22, 21:41:03 by MileHigh »
   
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Yes, now both Hartmann and Rosebud are off in na-na land accusing me of all kinds of dishonesty while preventing me from replying.  As expected and shows their character is exactly in line with what I suggested.  No surprise.

Hartmann points to the below scope shot as being clear evidence that most of the waveform on the shunt is negative in area.  Rosemary points to it and screams that it's a baffling miracle that zero volts are on the shunt (no current drawn) when the MOSFETs are turned full on.  It's Rosemary's own scope shot.

Just look at it.  I've drawn in the 7.2V offset zero current line.  First of all, one cannot see the waveform or judge in any way whether it has more area above or below zero.  Rosie never shows the waveforms, just the envelopes.  The second thing that's totally obvious is that there is clearly and plainly a positive voltage of exactly the expected normal magnitude for the 6 or 7 Amps that will flow from the battery when the MOSFETs are on.

How Rose and now Hartmann can look at this trace (which Hartmann selected as a great illustration of these things) and proclaim that there is zero volts on the shunt during on-time is the only mystery here.  They are approaching desperate insanity and the use of pathological lies that anyone who takes a moment to check can see are lies is the last grasp of the straw here, I guess.

Humbugger

P.S.
Also note that the reported "Cycle Mean" for that trace is -3.56V when it's clear that the envelope never even peaks at -3.56 Volts, having a maximum negative excursion of about 2.2 Volts and an obvious mean that would appear to be close to zero (just as my sim showed when the inductance of the shunt was included) but in reality is a positive number.  And that doesn't even count the ON time where the oscillations stop and the shunt voltage indicates positive 1.6V or so steadily.  Can you look at that trace and see how the scope could claim the mean was negative and beyond the peak excursion?  It is clear that the numbers being calculated in the LeCroy are completely wrong.  How or why I have no idea, but clearly they are way off

Has Paint been used to cut and paste fake scope traces over scope math numbers from a totally different set of traces?  The correlation (or total lack thereof) between the pictures and the captions suggests once again that purposeful deception or at least monumental incompetence is the prevailing factor here.
« Last Edit: 2011-03-22, 11:21:54 by humbugger »
   
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I MUST SHOUT THIS, SORRY.  HERE IS STEFAN'S POST REGARDING MY SIM:

Quote

I also had a look at his simulations.

His shunt voltages never looked like the voltages Rosemary showed here on her scopeshots.

So he might have tuned his simulation for underunity.

Especially this scopeshots:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10407.0;attach=51615

shows, that the orange colored input current at the shunt is almost everytime
negative.
Humbuger did not have this in his sim.

Rose, please post more zommed in scopehots of this scopeshot, by just showing
3 or 4 wavecycles and not the full burst please.


THE QUITE OBVIOUS REASON THAT MY SIM SHOTS DON'T LOOK LIKE ROSEMARY'S SCOPE TRACES IS THAT I TOOK CARE TO SHOW JUST SEVERAL (FIVE) CYCLES OF THE ACTUAL OSCILLATION AND NEVER SHOWED THE ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS AND GROSSLY UNDERSAMPLED BURST ENVELOPES.  HARTMANN EVEN SAYS HE WISHES ROSE TO ADJUST HER TIMEBASE TO SHOW CLEARLY (AND SAMPLE PROPERLY) THE ACTUAL CYCLE BY CYCLE WAVEFORM OF THE OSCILLATIONS.

ROSE RESPONDS BY SAYING SHE NEVER TOOK A SINGLE SCOPE SHOT OF JUST A FEW CYCLES OF THE OSCILATION.

HARTMANN, I HAVE LOST ANY BIT OF RESPECT I EVER MIGHT HAVE HAD FOR YOU AS AN HONEST HUMAN BEING OR A COMPETENT BENCH TECHNICIAN.  JUST LIKE ROSEMARY, YOU IGNORE THE OBVIOUS AND CLEARLY-STATED DEMONSTRATED FACTS SHOWN BY MY SIM AND EVEN BY THE ROSIE SCOPE TRACE ITSELF AND CONTRADICT YOURSELF WITHIN A SINGLE POST .  YOU FREELY BASH MY SIM AND SUGGEST I  HAVE GONE OUT OF MY WAY TO FAKE IT TO SHOW UNDER-UNITY RESULTS WHILE YOU BLOCK ME FROM POSTING ANY REPLY OR ARGUMENT.  YOU ARE THE LOWEST OF THE LOW, YOU FREAKING IDIOT.

CHEESEBURGER
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Relax Hum, this will blow over. The truth will come out. ;)

The offset voltages noted on the Lecroy scope have no bearing on the measurements, and have no real meaning actually.

I am still puzzled however how or why the shunt voltage can be 0V when the FET is ON  :o

It is not a case of AC coupling in the scope, that seems clear. Then what?

Must think about this...

.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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We are not looking at the same picture, obviously.  The shunt trace is offset by 7.2V and that then becomes the zero line against which all the statements are made regarding being above or below zero.  How you can sit there and say it is meaningless I cannot fathom.  The scope shot in question shows a positive voltage above the zero line by 1.5~1.6 Vollts when the MOSFETs are turned on.  Look at it again.  It in no way agrees with the -3.56V Cycle mean the scope then reports.  Do you not see this?

Also, do you see the two arbitrarily=placed vertical cursors?  Could these be defining the extent of her math samples?  Could it be that there are actually four cursors placed in pairs so close together as to be seen as single cursors?  And then arbitrarily swept around until happy numbers are achieved?  All I can say is I wouldn't put it past her to do that or to put a small 0805 size cap in series with her probe on the video trace of the current trace to make it appear to be DC coupled when it is actually AC coupled.

YOU AND I AND EVERYONE WITH A BRAIN KNOWS THAT THERE IS CURRENT FLOWING OUT OF THE BATTERY WHEN THE mosfetS ARE TURNED ON AND THE LOAD IS HOOKED ACROSS THE BATTERY AND THE SCOPESHOT BELOW AGREES EXACTLY WITH WHAT THAT CURRENT SHOULD BE AND IS.

Humbugger

P.S.  I understand that the so-called offset is just the vertical position control and does not play into the scope math.  But it is clearly crucial in looking at the trace and knowing where zero is to judge what is above or below zero volts and by how much.

By the way, why are you posting all of you sim results over on OU and ignoring those of us on your own forum here?
« Last Edit: 2011-03-22, 14:43:32 by humbugger »
   
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here is the famous video of the presentation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyOmoGluMCc

Of interest and pertinence to the above discussion between Poynt and me (and Stefan and Rose through their one-way mirror) are the two different scope shots, one of the LeCroy and one of the Tektronix which are said to be hooked up to the same points.

Freeze the video at 3:55 and look at the top trace.  It appears to be exactly symmetrical above and below zero and the non-oscillating part appears to be at exactly zero volts.

Now freeze the other scope display shown seconds later at 4:06 into the video, and look again at the top (current shunt) trace.  Now it appears that the oscillations are not any longer symmetrical around the flatline of the trace of the non-oscillating part.  If you notice where the zero arrow on the left is in this trace, it is once again clear that the MOSFET on time shows a strong positive current flow through the shunt...same as the picture I show in the above discussions (the one that Rose and Hartman claim shows zero volts during non-oscillation but which actually shows +1.6V).

How is it that these two scope traces of the LeCroy and the Tek do not in any way agree as to the shunt voltage and its relationship to zero?  Why is the LeCroy scope view quickly panned away from and the Tek  view is held in frame for many seconds?

Could it be that this important discrepancy between the two measuring devices was purposely glossed over and not mentioned?  Since the two histograms do not agree one or both of them are wrong.   In any case, the sweep speed is too slow to make any kind of accurate sampling possible of the actual oscillation waveforms which are never ever shown at all.  And the Tek scope is indicating that there is an Unstable Histogram as well, making sampled measurements even more questionable here.

Humbugger
« Last Edit: 2011-03-22, 16:16:05 by humbugger »
   
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Forgive me for obsessing just a tiny bit more  :-[

Over at the "other forum", someone (a new registrant) commented on how sad it was that there was no question/answer period from the assembled crowd of scholars and experts.  Rosemary quickly accused the commenter of being Catlady and refused to answer.

So I listened once more, with the volume turned up all the way, to the video and I noticed something very strange.  Here, according to Rosemary, we have a room full of academics and one student enjoying refreshments and raptly watching the great demonstration.  Yet, if you listen carefully, you hear not one cough, not one stranger's background voice, not one clearing of a throat.

We hear only the unknown and unnamed presenter and we hear Rosemary quietly babbling and whispering prompts to him and muttering quietly at various times.  I find it odd that we hear not one single bit of evidence that any other living soul was in the room.  Rosemary's voice is distinct and easily recognized if you have ever seen her other videos where she tries awkwardly to explain zipons.

Ponder that  C.C

Maybe the crowd were all required to wear gags?

Humbugger
   
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Finally (I promise),,,and speaking of gagging...excuse me while I barf:

At 8:40 into the video, while showing 190C which is claimed to be equivalent to 44W on the load, we have a nice closeup of the LeCroy scope, shown below.

Look at the numbers.  +243 mV (about +1A) on the 0.25 Ohm shunt flowing out of the battery and +50.3 VDC the battery voltage, also positive, of course.  By my calculations, even without using a fancy oscilloscope or even a calculator, that comes out to 50 Watts coming out of the battery.  That's 44/50 or 88% efficiency.

Recall that my measured simulator efficiency during the oscillation period was 75% and my best guess of what it would be during any time the MOSFETs were hard on was 95%+.  The demo uses 50% duty cycle between the two modes, and guess what number is about half way between 75 and 95%...well...it's 85%.  So the plain common sense as measured by Rosemary right in the video efficiency agrees almost exactly with my sim and my predictions.  Another coincidence?

Yet look at the scope math of the supposed Vshunt x Vbatt product.  It shows -5.43 VVs.  And that's what is said to be the input power.  Minus 5 ... the narrator hesitates and fails to say the word Watts (8:25 into the video).  Now first of all, how would the scope math know the shunt value in order to calculate Watts?  Then there's the real problem:  Two positive numbers whose multiplied product is negative.  This is an irrefutable demonstration of the fact that grossly undersampled scope traces subjected to scope math yield completely garbage numbers as output.  Or that something else is horribly awry.  

The -5.43 V x V math trace number is not only bogus but it is only supposed to be the product of the voltages (which it gets wrong) and couldn't possibly be Watts, since the scope knows nothing about the fact that one signal represents current nor does it know the shunt value to convert the voltage to its equivalent current.  All of her reported numbers and results are fraught with this same kind of grotesque errors that show that the scope is misreporting and that she has no idea what it's even supposed to be reporting.

Sure would love to hear Rosemary and her team or anyone else explain that one!   8)

Humbugger

P.S.  I know a really neat trick to boost that efficiency up to 100%.  Toss out everything on the table and connect the load to the batteries directly!  Told ya I was a clever monkey  >:-)
« Last Edit: 2011-03-23, 01:17:24 by humbugger »
   
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@Humbugger
Quote
How is it that these two scope traces of the LeCroy and the Tek do not in any way agree as to the shunt voltage and its relationship to zero?
Don't you know anything, the zipons have a tendency to loosen the jimson saddles in the flux capacitors causing tachyon distortions in the space-time continuum.
Regards
AC


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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Jimson saddles?  Shit...I forgot about those...never mind then.  Sorry folks, I guess I was wrong.  I've heard of Jimson Weed and I must have been smoking some this morning.  Please, please forgive me my sins and errors!  :o

Humbugger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datura_stramonium

Quote
Datura intoxication typically produces a complete inability to differentiate reality from fantasy (delirium, as contrasted to hallucination); hyperthermia; tachycardia; bizarre, and possibly violent behavior; and severe mydriasis with resultant painful photophobia that can last several days. Pronounced amnesia is another commonly reported effect.[8] The antidote of choice for overdose or poisoning is physostigmine.

Have another hit, Rosie!


   
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I'm confused now ...

The batteries RA is using in the 60V DC bank in the world renowned SA demo are a "silver calcium" type, but those slippery zippieons are where the extra energy comes from using a "lead acid" battery we were told not the circuit electronic components .... so that's why a capacitor bank cant work because of no sulfuric acid ?  :D

http://www.energeticforum.com/91694-post437.html

Quote
Ok. Batteries vary - one from another. Each manufacturer uses his own variety of trace elements in the electrodes to increase the plate's efficiencies. There's no hard and fast rule. But assuming that we are talking about your average lead acid battery - then the mix - very broadly, is plates of lead, lead dioxide with a mix of sulphuric acid used as an electrolyte. Now. The sulphur bonds with the lead, and systematically during discharge the electrolyte mixture turns to pure water as the sulphur is systematically leached out of the electrolyte mix.

The zipon thesis proposes that the bonding of those electrolytes - that sulphuric acid is managed by zipons. The atomic mix - the base - is acidic - indicating that it has an imbalanced valence condition in the atoms. Then those atoms have been further bonded into molecules which, in the case of sulphuric acid would be two hydrogen atoms to four sulphur atoms. The thesis proposes that the molecules are actually bonded by these extraneous fields of zipons. The acid state indicates an imbalanced valence condition. Therefore the bonding zipon fields share that same imbalance. There are too many 'like spins' in the bonding zipon fields. Just imagine this as fields all spinning clockwise. What's needed for balance is that half the fields spin anticlockwise. Zipons always move to generate a balance. That's an immutable imperative.

By separating from the molecular bond the zipons are able to move the sulphur atom towards the elctrode. This 'breaks' the symmetry of that molecular orbit. The zipons that belong to the sulphur, then attach the suphur atom to that lead. This forms another molecule - not sure what it is but may be lead sulphate or somesuch. You'll know. Now the hydrogen atoms are unbonded from the sulphur. But the hydrogen also has it's fields of binding zipons. These are released through the electrolyte in bubbles which gravitate towards the terminals of the battery. Now it needs to incorporate the hydrogen back into the mix as this is essentially trapped within the structure of the battery. Now the zipons break their symmetries - that bonding condition holding those hydrogen atoms - they line up head to toe at the postive terminal and simply move - lickety split - through the circuit - generating that current flow. They then represent at the negative terminal, re-enter the electrolyte base and rebond the hydrogen - this time with the water in the base, thereby forming hard water. Net result - a complete neutralisation of the previously acidic condition of the electrolyte.

Now reverse that current flow and the previously acidic condition is re-established. That reversal is organised by the introduction of new fields of potential energy - this time generated from the material of the resistor. Here the symmetries are broken that half the fields are routed anticlockwise through the circuit. This is reverse current flow. That reverse path also feeds through the battery. In its passage through the battery the previous condition is simply reversed and the sulphuric acid is reconstituded.
Does that make it clear. LOL.


 C.C

 ???


« Last Edit: 2012-03-14, 06:19:08 by FuzzyTomCat »
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
All along, I thought the extra energy was supposed to be from the slow but sure breakdown of the load resistor material.  :-\


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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