Development of an Avalanche Output Stage

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Author Topic: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage (Read 68374 times)

Grumpy	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #100 on: 2010-07-05, 16:14:59 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	they only squeal when pulsing the load Is this from low impedance pulse into high impedance load? EDIT: replaced transistor (was a 3055 not 2055) and pulled a new wire from electrical panel to fix outlet. Now, where was I? EDIT: pulsing again at 3.5kv ... « Last Edit: 2010-07-06, 22:31:22 by Grumpy »

Peterae	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #101 on: 2010-07-08, 14:18:25 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	I'm ready to start testing now with 2 stages of Transistors @ 600v First thing there's no way i am going to scope my coil because both sides are @ 600V and i dont fancy the earth lead of my scope sitting at this higher voltage(Scope is connected to usb of my laptop also), to start i will use my bifilar pancake coil, i can scope the 2nd bifilar coil which will give isolation and hopefully show me whats happening.

Grumpy	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #102 on: 2010-07-08, 14:58:37 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	I use a resistive divider and other means of detection.

Peterae	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #103 on: 2010-07-08, 15:07:36 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	My probes are x100 so have the divider built in but because both sides of my coil sit at 600V i dont want to connect my probe earth to it. Anyway seems i have trouble, the 2 transistors drain my psu and shut it down. When i measure the base+emitter(which are shorted) to the collector of that transistor on a diode meter i get a reading of 0.3 which a normal diode would give me 0.66, on ohms i get about 730 Ohms, well there's no way i could poke 600volts on the collector and hope it stays up, so what did i miss.

Peterae	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #104 on: 2010-07-08, 15:53:32 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	Well i guess it's obvious that the transistors died, maybe 600volts was too much for only 2 transistors in the chain, anyway looks like i'm going to be joining G, i have ordered a pack of 50 2n5551 transistors as these smt417 transistors are too expensive to burn.

Grumpy	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #105 on: 2010-07-08, 16:36:38 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	Quote from: Peterae on 2010-07-08, 15:07:36 My probes are x100 so have the divider built in but because both sides of my coil sit at 600V i dont want to connect my probe earth to it. Anyway seems i have trouble, the 2 transistors drain my psu and shut it down. When i measure the base+emitter(which are shorted) to the collector of that transistor on a diode meter i get a reading of 0.3 which a normal diode would give me 0.66, on ohms i get about 730 Ohms, well there's no way i could poke 600volts on the collector and hope it stays up, so what did i miss. They blow when you have to much current and those only need something like 100uA to avalanche. 600v doesn't matter as it can take thousands of volts if the current is kept low. Quote from: Peterae on 2010-07-08, 15:53:32 Well i guess it's obvious that the transistors died, maybe 600volts was too much for only 2 transistors in the chain, anyway looks like i'm going to be joining G, i have ordered a pack of 50 2N5551 transistors as these smt417 transistors are too expensive to burn. 2N5551's require 2mA to avalanche.

Peterae	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #106 on: 2010-07-08, 16:56:48 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	Something i dont understand with the FMMT417 Vcbo is 320V but the Vceo is only 100V, now if i have 300 volts between my base and collector that should be ok but the emitter is also connected to the base on each stage bar the first and therefore surely i am going over the Vceo by 200V : OUCH i also didn't realize you have to watch the base current that much. http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/FMMT415.pdf

Grumpy	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #107 on: 2010-07-08, 19:10:53 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	Quote from: Peterae on 2010-07-08, 16:56:48 Something i dont understand with the FMMT417 Vcbo is 320V but the Vceo is only 100V, now if i have 300 volts between my base and collector that should be ok but the emitter is also connected to the base on each stage bar the first and therefore surely i am going over the Vceo by 200V : OUCH i also didn't realize you have to watch the base current that much. http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/FMMT415.pdf avalanche is determined by the Vcbo: see attached ------------------------ ^an8.pdf (337.34 kB - downloaded 510 times.)

Peterae	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #108 on: 2010-07-08, 21:04:31 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	OK G i was getting confused.

Grumpy	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #109 on: 2010-07-09, 04:50:33 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	Also, notice that the avalanche voltage depends on several things. (look at the charts)

Peterae	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #110 on: 2011-01-12, 16:30:43 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	I decided to start a fresh with the Avalanche Pulser after i determined that the efficiency of a Saturable pulse shaper was only a few % efficient. Using the details in this doc posted by Grumpy http://icecube.wisc.edu/~kitamura/NK/Flasher_Board/Useful/research/RSI00308.pdf I built the transistor tester circuit Figure 1. but used my digital mono and a hex inverter to drive the stage. Here's a proto test of the stage, in the final pcb i will build the marx device with plug in 900v modules The circuit should allow me to evaluate the performance of the bag of 2N5551 transistors i bought from china. I am still testing things right now, here's 2 pulse shots, One with a base capacitor of 10nF and one without The one without was a lower voltage Peak but enabled me to drive it with a shorter pulse The one with had a higher peak switched voltage. Hopefully when i switch away from standard caps to a enamel wire wound cap i should get a more square pulse. ------------------------ Development of an Avalanche Output Stage Ava101.jpg (67.78 kB, 600x450 - viewed 1259 times.) Development of an Avalanche Output Stage Avawith.jpg (56.68 kB, 600x370 - viewed 1213 times.) Development of an Avalanche Output Stage Avawithout.jpg (54.65 kB, 600x378 - viewed 1148 times.)

Peterae	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #111 on: 2011-01-16, 16:36:28 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	A couple of pictures of a 3 2N5551 transistor stack, 300pf cap,340K feed resistor. 47 Ohm load resistor, supply was 900V Green Trace is across 47R load resistor Yellow trace is on collector of the top transistor ------------------------ Development of an Avalanche Output Stage ava.jpg (76.62 kB, 538x491 - viewed 1114 times.) Development of an Avalanche Output Stage ava2.jpg (78.54 kB, 538x491 - viewed 1093 times.)

Peterae	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #112 on: 2011-01-21, 14:18:56 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	I am almost in business I tried my cap idea by winding enamelled wire axially along a length of wire to form a capacitor, although my cap meter measured 100pf i could not get it to work properly so have given up on the cap idea for now. This means i need to buy some 200pf caps Anyway i have etched 7 Marx modules , 2 driver boards and 2 output boards, i already built sometime ago the 2 900V switched psu's At the moment i have used 100pf caps and with a 47R resistor load the Marx boards do not work(The pulse doesnt get bigger with more modules GULP), as a temporary test i loaded with a 680K resistor and this verified they do work, once i get the caps i can try a coil. A photo of the finished boards some still need making up 3 Scope shots of the pulse across a 680K load resistor (Yellow Trace) with 1,2 and 3 modules stacked as you can see each Marx module does indeed add to the final output pulse amplitude. ------------------------ Development of an Avalanche Output Stage AvaBoard.jpg (57.79 kB, 800x340 - viewed 741 times.) Development of an Avalanche Output Stage 1mod.jpg (75.57 kB, 538x491 - viewed 655 times.) Development of an Avalanche Output Stage 2mod.jpg (75.92 kB, 538x491 - viewed 610 times.) Development of an Avalanche Output Stage 3mod.jpg (76.26 kB, 538x491 - viewed 664 times.)

poynt99	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #113 on: 2011-01-21, 14:35:23 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3208 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Good stuff Peter! You're becoming quite the "marxman" What's next in your "sights"? .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

Peterae	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #114 on: 2011-01-21, 14:57:18 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	Quote You're becoming quite the "marxman" Thanks Darren Well once i have 2 of these working i will try nS phase shifting the 2 pulses connected to a coil, but primarily i want to use the 2 channels for injecting pulses into a closed toroidal ring and see what sort of effects i can see. Here's the circuit, incredibly easy to build and i am yet to find a failed transistor and have tested over 20 of the 2n5551 from the 50 i ordered from china. ------------------------ Development of an Avalanche Output Stage AvaDriverCircuit.jpg (77.96 kB, 833x572 - viewed 758 times.) Development of an Avalanche Output Stage AvaCircuit.jpg (43.08 kB, 469x434 - viewed 777 times.)

Grumpy	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #115 on: 2011-01-21, 15:48:26 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	I tested my 2N5551's for avalanche point and at Zener breakdown and found that any that were noisy at Zener had higher resistance at avalanche (as evidenced by lower pulse), so I put those aside. May not really matter though.

Peterae	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #116 on: 2011-01-21, 15:58:01 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	Hi G I have not seen much variation in Avalanche pulse size really so far, i did initially run some tests looking for the avalanche voltage and this did seem to vary quiet a bit.

Peterae	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #117 on: 2011-01-21, 16:31:58 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	I still do not know how a low impedance coil will affect the pulse loading yet, but with a resistor even a 1K starts loading up a 3 stage setup. When i upgrade to 200pf caps hopefully i will be able to pump twice the impulse energy and increase the loaded peak amplitude. Here's 2 pictures, 1 with a 1K and another with a 50K load using 3 modules stages. Looks like i am getting a fall rate of about 18nS for the 1K load @ 740V pulse and for 50K the pulse is about 1100V ------------------------ Development of an Avalanche Output Stage ava1K.jpg (74.13 kB, 538x491 - viewed 758 times.) Development of an Avalanche Output Stage ava50k.jpg (74.17 kB, 538x491 - viewed 646 times.)

the_big_m_in_ok	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #118 on: 2011-09-12, 22:36:08 »
Group: Guest	Grumpy, The .PDF in posted Reply #14 has no "root" or it's invalid. I get a blank black screen for an output of the .PDF --Lee

Peterae	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #119 on: 2011-09-13, 16:42:01 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	Looks like it was one of those files that got damaged about a year ago, It will need to be re uploaded by Grumpy if he still has it.

the_big_m_in_ok	Re: Development of an Avalanche Output Stage « Reply #120 on: 2011-09-13, 18:08:37 »
Group: Guest	Okay, thanks. He might have another file, or not?, that has a circuit which does something similar to the original? In any event, I like to see it. --Lee

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