OverUnity Research

Post other TK replications that appear promising here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZzVb7CqnaM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKdWKJsd3x4&feature=channel&list=UL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR1z3pK-DJg&feature=autoplay&list=ULSKdWKJsd3x4&playnext=1

Here's another recent video of supposed self runner, nice high resolution video, unfortunately poster does not zoom camera out to see whole table and all wires:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz0IPdPbHvA

Schematic attached (this may or not be the schematic of the shown device but looks very close)

Nevertheless interesting because of simple looping circuit for self runner. Poster disconnects startup battery.

Secret sauce? Split aluminum? sheet metal inserted into core, tiny spark gap from flyback transformer (pulsating HV DC at excitation frequency ripple rate), something else inserted into core. (batteries?)

Looks like a lot of replicators are going away from driver chips in favor of bistable multivibrator direct drive of step up device using FET's or transistors for simplicity. This would mean drive frequency is not that critical.

Not very complex, should be easy to crack if real.

Can anyone here please translate the video?

You have to be carefull with the Russian and other guys in this area of the world
they like to fake things.The mostlikely hidding place for a battery is inside the coil,
also another thing that has been done is small hidden wires carriyng power.My
investigation of the
TK device concludes,this applies directly to 2004 and greenbox video's,in my opinion ,TK routes the actual ac power from the real hidden
device thru a Tesla interface,in the 2004 video,the real device is in a sealed can,that consists of a ground ,spark gap, high voltage and coils.
The Tesla interface does nothing so in my opinion,so  any replication using this is fake.In one video ,green box video
the Tesla interface creates pulses on the ac since the ac passes thru a coil subjected to the collapsing field.
These pulses create a false triggering on digital meters,causing failure to read ac voltages,in addition the clampmeter used creates
a false ac  ground current reading.I have a clampmeter that is made by the same manufacture
as the one used by TK,my other clampmeters read zero current.I have done an experiment with a tesla interface,the source
of the ac came from an isolation transformer.Heres  something for you guys to disscuss I tend to create hardware
simmulations because computer simulations in my opinion would not work correctly,since your dealing with the concept of overunity.
I believe certain parts of any true real world overunity device would have ordinary components connected to conventional thinking,
along with some that would appear impossible.In the 2004 TK video,when TK disconnects the ac feed to the device there is a delay along with a strange noise,a frequency increase,
now compare that noise with a simulation I did to show that if a device did work it could be looped.The simulation was more or less thrown togeither from parts I have,it was also done to check
other things to see if the video tracks exactly to what you see compare to what you get in a simulation.In my video you will see that theres no delay or noise.The question is why would TK build
in such a thing if its fake,I would think he wouldn't, no point in doing something like that.If we assume its real in doing hes setup there could be strange things that could happen
remember,if its a real world device it may not behave in a manner that you may believe it should.
If you were faking my simulation you would put in batteries,I used a power supply,to supply energy.
The purpose of TK in calling hes device a Tesla invention is to draw away attention from him and focus it on Tesla, its misdirection.

cheappower2012;

Thanks for the heads up. I'm very aware of the trickery that might be used and the many ways to fake these devices e.g the latest video link referenced shows a twisted pair of red wires that is way too long for the job and probably meanders over the edge of the table to a power supply or battery below the table.

In my own mind I constantly try to prove and also disprove what I see as it is the required due diligence in both cases.

In the DSRD thread, post #109 user "verpies" posted an interesting paper that could offer a  functional hypothesis of how devices might work. It is a good read.

that's a neat video ION,  I'll assume its authentic, until proven otherwise.

Examining the schematic, key points are:

A pulsating DC driven very small, therefore high frequency spark gap exciting a three turn copper tubing primary (L1).

A bifilar (L2, L3) secondary of 80 turns each. Note since these have the same phase there should be a net zero voltage into the output transformer.
Another coil L4 which is in series with L3 and grounded by 0.5uF 750 volt capacitor.

This would seem to be reminiscent of Spheric's bifilar L2, L3, plus delay element L4.

If you "break" down the circuit and simplifies it, then you end up with something like the attached.
I can see no reason to why this circuit should produce a high output power. Where does the
energy amplification take place? In the spark gap? In the transformer? Any theories?

GL.

Quote from: Groundloop on 2013.04.26, 19:08:07
If you "break" down the circuit and simplifies it, then you end up with something like the attached.
I can see no reason to why this circuit should produce a high output power. Where does the
energy amplification take place? In the spark gap? In the transformer? Any theories?
GL.

If you examine the video carefully you will see that the two 80 turn windings are bifilar and presumably wound in the same direction. This would put the dots at one end of the coil form for these wires. Let us assume the dot wires feed the transformer. This would create a null output for ordinary induction as the pulse voltage would effectively cancel(not counting the smaller winding with the capacitor).

The present hypotheses are:
1)  that some type of NMR and beta capture is occurring of either the copper wires themselves, the aluminum insert or some other material not visible.
2) something closer to the Spheric or TPU i.e. mixing of frequency with a slight delay element, aether effect.
3) another hoax to get hits on youtube.

Food for thought:
If the two 80 turn windings are in series connection (properly phased for normal induction) then all we have is a RF transformer being pinged at the spark gap frequency. This could probably light the bulb shown, but the spark in the gap does not look intense enough to carry that wattage considering the turns ratio 3:160. The flyback transformer HV winding alone is not designed to carry the power being demonstrated. If anyone can estimate the gap distance, we would have a good idea how high the capacitor is charging before discharge in the gap. We can then calculate the energy per pulse (if we knew the cap value) and get the approximate necessary pulse repetition rate to sustain the lamp at some reasonable level of brightness as shown in the video.

Only way to tell is to build it, which I intend to do as time permits.

Quote from: Groundloop on 2013.04.26, 19:08:07
If you "break" down the circuit and simplifies it, then you end up with something like the attached.
I can see no reason to why this circuit should produce a high output power. Where does the
energy amplification take place? In the spark gap? In the transformer? Any theories?

GL.

I think the best source for understanding where the energy comes from is the TK patents.   In one of his patents, he seems to indicate a difference frequency gets set up in the coils, which is 50 Hz,  so this indicates to me that it is a receiver of low frequency stray energy that seems to be everywhere due to the man made power grid.

this guys particular device might very well take advantage of other phenomena, but if it works per the TK patents, that's it.  ( INMO    :D )

EM

Here is a video translated by Wesley of another supposed self runner that is interesting (first view of workshop then outdoor test).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUVvZzeDe5U&feature=youtu.be

and the non translated version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e3RpsEZE14

When discussing please refer to this one as the "akula" video.

The one in the  post reply #1 we will refer to as the "Ikako" video

Sorry for the bad quality here's the diagram

Way too many people are getting free energy over there, what's going on?   :-\


akula's video is a departure from the typical design, but i think it's more credible.

EM

Peterae:

Regarding the schematic you posted, although I have seen it, I am not sure it thoroughly represents the "akula" device. Where did you get it?

Here is the schematic of the "Ikako" device. I have traced each wire from the video and it seems to be correct. I do not know of it's origin.

It is totally possible to reverse engineer the "Ikako" device to determine if it is normal induction or something special happening. All we need is the value of C3, and orientation of the phasing dots for L2, L3, L4. Lamp wattage would be a bonus to know.

This would be done by calculating the PRR and estimating the required energy per pulse based on the spark gap firing distance. We also need a estimate of the actual output power. I'm working on this and as time permits it is getting my full attention.

QuoteRegarding the schematic you posted, although I have seen it, I am not sure it thoroughly represents the "akula" device. Where did you get it?

I found it in a frame of that youtube video you posted the link to  O0

Here's the poster's first comment on yiutube

QuoteI have got authorization to copy this video and I have written prove for it.
There is few frames from original Tungus video at the end that does not display any longer with instruction to the schematic. and schematic.
It was showing clear when I start translation but now I see the frames at the end if you hold the slider but does not display it any longer.
If someone has it please give me link to it.

I rewatched the first video, and he does test a number of permutation of the switch and battery conection, and I think it passes legitimacy, however, all the videos trouble me a bit, when the battery is disconnected.  Specifically I expect to see some light bulb intensity change, and I don't see that, clear indication that is running off a stable power source hidden somewhere. :-\

EM

EM,

Take the positive outlook.

Maybe, the light didn't change because the battery was under charge after he got the circuit going  ;)

If the thing is legit there should be no change in the light. All the coils aside, this circuit would be constant voltage output and just become hotter when load is applied.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.04.29, 16:27:27
EM,

Take the positive outlook.

Maybe, the light didn't change because the battery was under charge after he got the circuit going  ;)

If the thing is legit there should be no change in the light. All the coils aside, this circuit would be constant voltage output and just become hotter when load is applied.

I would have to respectfully disagree with the last statement. It is more likely a voltage source with some series impedance, not a constant voltage source, as there is not the required setpoint control and reference voltage to accomplish this.

The battery can act as a clamp to limit voltage applied to the oscillator e.g. to between 12 to 15v volts depending on initial charge state and charging current. When removed, the voltage can soar to above 15 volts or to some value above the previous  "clamped" voltage. Then the lamp should get a bit brighter as the charging current is no longer being supplied.

We actually see the slight increase in brightness  at the first disconnection at around 2:05. We do not see it at the second disconnection at around 4:55 because the battery has slightly charged to match the disconnect voltage.

There are some other more serious questions that should be asked but I don't see anyone asking them.

ION,

I would agree with you if this device followed the rules we would expect but then there would be no chance of OU if it did  :D

If spin was the main activity then the only voltage drop you would see would be from the wiring and connections. Since I can see no way that spin is used and I may not see it when if it stared me in the face, I'll have to think how it could be used in this configuration.

The serious question I am still asking myself is - how is he faking it? There are a few possibilities but I haven't dug into it deeply enough, so far.

ION brings up a good point.  

The simple power feedback approach (loop back) that these guys are using has no voltage regulation, and that's a dead giveaway that it is faked.  For if the generated voltage was slightly higher, as it would have to be for it to work when looped back, it would continue increasing thus creating a "run-away" event, and we don't see that happening.  ( and it's hard to imagine what dynamic would stop the voltage from climbing )

However,  on closer inspection of the circuit operation,  a counter argument could be made as follows:

The input power is used to drive a high voltage power supply  (push pull config driving the TV high voltage coil) and it goes right to the spark gap.     Let's ask the question, what would a higher input voltage accomplish?   Well,   the voltage would build up faster and the spark gap will trigger at a FASTER FREQUENCY.

So a higher input voltage increases the spark gap firing frequency.   But is that a problem?   Not really, because the spark gap is just a tool to excite the resonant coil (main big coil) to oscillate, and its frequency is not controlled by the spark gap firing frequency.  Moreover,  the regulation mechanism is in the frequency of the spark gap firing.  As we know from Tesla coil operation, each time the spark gap fires energy is transferred to the secondary, but there is an optimum frequency of the spark gap triggering frequency and the resonant frequency of the Tesla coil, and its the harmonic relation, i.e. the coils resonant frequency has to be a higher harmonic of the spark gap triggering frequency, and then the energy is added in phase and builds up faster, assuming the coil is not heavily loaded, but if it is heavily loaded, as in this case, I guess it doesn't matter so much.    :-\

I need to ponder this stuff some more, but I have some doubts here.

EM


PS. I just watched the video again, and yes, the lights do get brighter when battery is disconnected.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.04.29, 20:56:03
ION,

The serious question I am still asking myself is - how is he faking it? There are a few possibilities but I haven't dug into it deeply enough, so far.

The easiest way that I can see is to bring a hidden mains live in through the bottom of the air coil and connect to one side of L4. If you watch the manual switching sequence carefully, he accidentally operates the switch with the croc lead disconnected, resulting in no lamp illuminating. This suggests that a power supply is being carried in by the croc lead, probably mains neutral.

Hoppy

Hoppy,

I think he did that on purpose, to show us that the energy comes through one ground wire.   But that does not exclude fakery.  

I think a lot of people try to "replicate" any way they can, by fakery if they have to,  and just because they fake it, doesn't mean TK's invention was fake.   We've seen that on the TPU topic a lot.

EM

the ikako video is such a fake, and blatantly obvious, I can't believe I didn't see this before.  

Look at the frame I grabbed from the video, and annotated.   The 12 volt circuit is just for show, to excite a spark gap, but does nothing for power.   He has hidden 240 V AC wires and the switch controls that, the transformer is key, it is a 12 Volt AC step down transformer, so what is the chance that his coil outputs 240 Volts AC?  None, it's fake, he brings house electricity to it with hidden wires.


>:(

EM


[edit:  I appended a composite picture of multiple frame grabs]

Quote from: EMdevices on 2013.05.01, 03:52:19
the ikako video is such a fake, and blatantly obvious, I can't believe I didn't see this before.  


>:(

EM

Bugga
How did we know that was coming.

Quote from: tinman on 2013.05.01, 04:02:32
Bugga
How did we know that was coming.

tinman, after the RomeroUK debacle,  I'm a lot more skeptical.  Back then, I did not want to believe his motor/generator was fake, I wanted to believe it was real, until wattsup found the infamous "wire-X" and convinced me to analyze it and ponder it, and I did and reluctantly realized it.  It was a very bitter experience for me!


BTW, the other TK replication video is more credible (akula's, taken outside on that chair) but this one can have hidden batteries inside the coil.  However, make no mistake, I think the TK invention is real.

EM

P.S.,  Anybody who talks so softly in a video that shows such amazing results, is giving away the fact that he is not excited because he is faking it.  I would be stuttering with excitement as I show my discovery of free energy, but not this guy.  And, he does not make an effort to film around and prove there are no hidden wires.   The purpose of a video is really to show the world you've done it and bragg,  and of course you will do your best to prove you've done it, and dispel any doubts, but once again, not this guy.    

one other thing, the circuit is not even correct per TK.  the spark gap needs to excite the multi turn coil, not the short and thick copper coil, this coil should really be the output, because its a step down, but of course the kid thinks he is building a Tesla coil, which is not quite it, sorry.

By far the most blatant mistake the kid makes is to light a 240 volt light bulb directly off the wires coming from the coil (connected at the transformer)   The brightness is consistent to being powered from 240 volts, so the question is how come his simple coil conveniently develops 240 volts without any power conditioning electronic?  It does not, it's just wires bringing in 240 volts AC from house wiring, and he hides them somewhere.   If we look at TK's videos he has a lot of electronics there to extract the energy at the output and condition it and send it back to the input, where he has an inverter, that further regulates the input.  This kid has practically nothing, just a simple push pull driver stage for the TV high voltage coil and a spark gap, that much is legitimate, the rest is just bull shit.

Quote from: EMdevices on 2013.05.01, 04:19:57


BTW, the other TK replication video is more credible (akula's, taken outside on that chair) but this one can have hidden batteries inside the coil.  However, make no mistake, I think the TK invention is real.

EM

EM & all,

Attached is a clip from the Akula 'chair' video showing a twin cable below the demo board. It is sitting on top of the timber traverse under the lower red arrow (ignore the top red arrow). There is also a hint of something poking up out of the crack in the concrete slab near the back RHS leg of the chair but the video quality is too poor to see enough detail at this distance from the camera. Note: The video clip is incorrectly labelled Tungus twin wire.

The Tariel Kapanadze 'Green Box' garden video is IMO almost certainly faked. The guy holding the coils of cable with long black sleeves is 'rigged' and has a wire going up his sleeve and down his clothing to the ground, where it connects to the 'X' wire. The video takes a lot of analysing to appreciate this.

Hoppy

Hoppy,  that's interesting what you found, but what if its the seat padding?  I'll analyze the video later.

The TK video had so manny people standing around, it's hard to imagine he would try to fake it like you described. When his videos first showed up on the Internet, I did not think much of them because it looked like a resonant converter, and I saw batteries, and a huge box that can house small but high energy batteries.  I have seen a lot of these inverter "OU" type of devices, and I don't get too excited anymore about a lightbulb glowing brightly.  However, after reading the TK patents, and understanding the output is a 50 Hz beat frequency, it's apparent that its a serious energy scavenger, nothing to ignore or laugh at.

EM

Quote from: EMdevices on 2013.05.01, 10:52:22
Hoppy,  that's interesting what you found, but what if its the seat padding?  I'll analyze the video later.

Sorry Hoppy...  I vote for seat padding also.  :)

Looks like the wood beading that is used to hold the edge of the seat padding.

But gentlemen, let us put aside cries of fakery for a bit. We can start a separate thread to discuss the many ways these things could be faked.

I'm more interested in a critical analysis of the devices, witholding my disbelief for a bit until absolute proof of fakery can be established.

Now regarding EM's statement about a runaway condition:

QuoteThe input power is used to drive a high voltage power supply  (push pull config driving the TV high voltage coil) and it goes right to the spark gap.     Let's ask the question, what would a higher input voltage accomplish?   Well,   the voltage would build up faster and the spark gap will trigger at a FASTER FREQUENCY.

So a higher input voltage increases the spark gap firing frequency.   But is that a problem?   Not really, because the spark gap is just a tool to excite the resonant coil (main big coil) to oscillate, and its frequency is not controlled by the spark gap firing frequency.  Moreover,  the regulation mechanism is in the frequency of the spark gap firing.  As we know from Tesla coil operation, each time the spark gap fires energy is transferred to the secondary, but there is an optimum frequency of the spark gap triggering frequency and the resonant frequency of the Tesla coil, and its the harmonic relation, i.e. the coils resonant frequency has to be a higher harmonic of the spark gap triggering frequency, and then the energy is added in phase and builds up faster, assuming the coil is not heavily loaded, but if it is heavily loaded, as in this case, I guess it doesn't matter so much.    Undecided

Consider that there is a sweet spot frequency that is ideal to create the voltage / current mixing in the air core transformer. Going above the sweet spot frequency would result in less energy output, so the system loop would self regulate somewhat.

Yes this would be unlike normal transformer action. We are not talking normal transformer action. The output air core is all wrong, being another step up transformer 3 turns to 80 turns, a huge impedance mismatch, and the wrong way to light a bulb, so either something very interesting is going on or there are hidden wires from the mains. Also the two 80 turn secondaries are in phase and would result in a null to the iron core step down transformer. The only voltage that should appear into the iron core iss from the resonant C2, L4 combo.

Lack of excitement on the part of the video poster can also mean that he wants to keep a low key and stay under the radar, yet disseminate to those who are sharp enough to "get it".

I have traced out all the wires in the "Ikako" video, they agree with schematic _00002.jpg. I have not been able to detect any auxilliary mains inputexcept for the "ground clip lead". We would still need one more wire coming from somewhere to the other winding that feeds the iron core. Can anyone see if that wire exists?

As I have said before, the long red twisted pair is also suspect, it appears to be completely on the table, however there is a   possibility that it is later connected to a power supply or battery under the table, and the presenter cut that segment out. But even this would be unable to light the lamp because of the aforementioned severe impedance mismatch. We would expect a step down transformer after the spark gap, but L2 and L3 feed the lamp directly.

Let us do a rigorous analysis before claiming fake. Deductive reasoning would have us take away everything that cannot be and see what we are left with.

We can also employ inductive reasoning after this.

Thank you gents for your comments on the Acula 'chair' video. This clip was sent to me and I thought it interesting enough to post as a possible twin wire. Its strange that if this is seat padding, why it does not appear on top of the wood beading shown under the top red arrow.

Re: Akula chair video.
@7:36 there is something down inside the tube.
In the kitchen: the corner of the platform is out in the air. We don't see beneath.

What if these guys are just copying and don't know the purpose? No, really! What if their interpretation is really askew? The chimpanzees have a hand grenade and are stumbling through a mine field wondering to them selves.




http://abcnews.go.com/International/Technology/stray-dogs-master-complex-moscow-subway-system/story?id=10145833#.UYFJTsqGXnP (http://abcnews.go.com/International/Technology/stray-dogs-master-complex-moscow-subway-system/story?id=10145833#.UYFJTsqGXnP)

Not trying to be funny. But sometimes you have to wonder about the ratio of action to intelligence.

Hello Gents,


I took the time to build a quick model of the TK generator, to illustrate how it operates, specifically how the "difference of frequency" gets created as he describes in the patents.


It's really not anything exotic, two off tuned tank circuits have been in use since the early days of RADIO.   This is what my model illustrates,  notice:

1)  the tuning capacitors on the L1 and L2 tank circuits are of slightly different values
2)  notice the dots on the inductors, they are connected in opposition, so only when they are 180 deg out of phase does the current add up and influences the third inductor L3, which has fewer turns.
3) the spark gap is approximated by the pulsed voltage source


This is a very simple spice model, and I suppose I could tune the third inductor with a capacitor, and smooth the output waveform.

The output voltage waveform you see is obviously of a different frequency than the blue current waveform which is the current flowing through L2, because it is the difference between the L1 and L2 tank circuits.   Tariel Kapanadze  talks about this difference in frequency, and mentions 50 Hz.    His crude spark gap setup is just to accomplish this difference of frequencies, and when tuned to 50 Hz that's when its in phase with the external 50 Hz currents that flow through the ground wire,  and conversion happens.

EM

PS.  I added a paragraph from the TK patent application, and the figure, for reference.

this is a better simulation to illustrate the difference frequency.  (beat frequency) 
(I'm using two separate frequencies, off by 100 Hz)

Pretty close to yours now...
Thanks for the help.
DonL

What software are you guys using?

Looks like LTspice to me........freeware from Linear Technology.

Quote from: ION on 2013.05.10, 00:52:48
Looks like LTspice to me........freeware from Linear Technology.

Yes LTSpice

Here's an image of the touch potential around an electric grid substation, that experiences a ground fault.   Notice the steep gradients around it, in Kv.  Large currents flow through the ground, and since the ground is not a perfect conductor it sets up these high gradients. This is the source of electricity for the TK device.


The Tariel Kapanadze grounding wire is used to bring the potential from another location to the device's location.   I think over in the former soviet union,(and also former east block countries) you can see from the videos that the infrastructure is quite poor and neglected.  So I imagine they have plenty of ground currents to tap into.

EM


P.S.  picture from:  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_potential_rise

Read this document as well:   http://stepandtouch.com/resources/step_and_touch_whitepaper.pdf

Having read the suggested links and papers, I will have to respectfully disagree with your latest so called "explanation" of the TK device.

First, you would have to tap into two points exactly co-linear to the ground current to extract usable power. Points perpendicular to this would be a "null". While one of the early videos did show two grounds, all of the later ones involved only one ground wire.

Second, this may be true for short term or temporary fault conditions but these conditions are usually quickly corrected. No one could count on where and when this happens.

Third, it is a very local condition and loses considerable effect with distance. We see no substations in the video's, rather we see a very primitive overhead distribution system.

Fourth, ground faults need to be quickly corrected or would result in an enormous waste of power. No self respecting generating plant would tolerate those losses on a continuous basis without correcting them because it costs them money to generate that lost power!, and lost profits are strictly not tolerated.
Georgia is a poor country and could not afford that waste on a continuous basis.

Fifth, in the videos we see no effort to protect any of the persons as would be required in the paper you reference.

If not corrected for the long term, and for that much current to be flowing continuously, the ground would be literally cooking, the worms would be coming to the surface and it would be time to go fishing.

Everyone in Georgia would be required to walk around with insulated boots.

Better to go back to your power line extraction theory, it is  extremely far fetched but more plausible. Or maybe you could combine the two into a new theory requiring HT overhead lines and ground faults for a one size fits all OU devices explanation.

A friend of mine who works with railway switch gear once said, ground faults in the rail systems are regularly checked, if a problems was left to continue metal structures/beams in the sourrounding buildings would start to literally migrate.

Quote...the ground would be literally cooking, the worms would be coming to the surface and it would be time to go fishing.

  that's really funny ION!   ;D

Good point about the grounding location.  It has to be along the flow of current, not at 90 degrees to it.  I imagine these guys tried a few grounds before deciding on which is better.

Of course I'm not saying he extracts power from a substation ground fault, that was to illustrate the idea of gradients across the ground due to GROUND CURRENTS,  which are always present around power lines especially in the dilapidated parts of the worlds.

Over there they don't use a third grounding wire, and you can be shocked badly touching the metal frame of some equipment.  It's really bad, the whole region is one big ground fault!   ;)

Peterae,

Quote..would start to literally migrate

as in the Lorentz force is so strong it moved the rails?   
 

A long wire running parallel to power lines, picks up quite a bit of voltage through induction.  The levels can be quite deadly and precautions need to be taken. 

Here's some advice from the Bonneville Power Administration (BPA) about wire fences.

WIRE FENCES
Barbed wire and woven wire fences insulated from
ground on wood posts can assume an induced
voltage when located near power lines. If you are
having a shock-related problem, call BPA for an
investigation. The fence may need to be
grounded if:
it is located within the right-of-way;
it parallels the line within 125 feet of the outside
wire and is longer than 150 feet; or
it parallels the line 125 to 250 feet from the
outside wire and is longer than 6,000 feet.
These fences should be grounded at each end
and every 200 feet with a metal post driven at
least 2 feet into the ground. Attach all wire strands
of the fence to the metal post.

taken from page 6  (  http://transmission.bpa.gov/lancom/Living_and_Working_Around_High_Voltage_Power_Lines_11-07.pdf)


Although the above references high voltage levels, a simple backyard wire can show a few volts of induced voltage depending on one's location.   In my back yard 10 meters of cable along a north south trajectory picks up quite a few volts, but in other directions it does not, so orientation is important.

EM

Of course with cattle fence one doesn't need power lines around to feel the country feeling.

We'd be better off if we cast well-known explanations, and seek to explain how it might work if it indeed does.

There is no doubt a voltage is generated from parallel induction. The real question is: how much current can be delivered steady state. Your voltmeter probably has a 10 Meg input impedance on the voltage range, so only microamperes are needed to get a reading. Load the input to the meter with a 1k ohm resistor and now measure.

The co-efficient of coupling of the parallel lines is quite poor so it can't deliver appreciable current unless the frequency is very high. Not much current can be delivered at 50 / 60 Hz.

Ion, I think there is quite a bit of current in TK's setup, that's why he uses nice thick copper cables to a well grounded (buried) metallic object, for low resistance, since the currents are quite high but at low voltage perhaps.



All,

I drew this diagram to illustrate how simple his setup really is. Enjoy!

I almost think it's just a resonant converter (which can nicely match a high impedance load to a low impedance source, which appears to be his ground cable, completing the circuit through capacitance back to ground.   Or maybe not, because we can't see inside the green box.    I wish he would open that green box because there will always be doubt about hidden batteries.  In that volume, one can hide so much power.  I just bought an electric lawn mower, which comes with a nice lithium battery pack that's no bigger than my hand, yet packs almost 200 watt-hours of energy, and if I had two of these inside that volume, I could light 4 light bulbs, each 100 watts, for about an hour, and he does not even do that much in the video, he just turns the lights ON for a little bit than OFF.   A very poor test in my opinion.

But I still think his device is real, because I read his patent application and I understand he is tapping in the 50 Hz stray fields/currents from the electric grid through that ground cable.


EM

PS,  Notice that the load is on the secondary, which has FEW turns, to increase the current.  This is why I have been saying that those replications (ikako) seem suspect, because the spark gap feeds the short turn coil.  This is not a Tesla coil, it's just two coils, primary with lots of turns takes high voltage pulses through the spark gap and resonates (perhaps with capacitors inside the green box) and the high magnetic field then cuts the few turns of the secondary and drives the load with high current but lower voltage, which is OK, because the primary has kilo volts on it.

In a Tesla Reciever (for the magnifying transmitter) the load is on the the coil that you term the "secondary", but tesla calls it the primary.

Tesla had a spark gap on this load coil.  He didn't always use a capacitive terminal, per his notes, stating too much capacitance is detrimental.   "a" is a detector.

The battery is not in all reciever circuits, and he tried many different versions.

Apparently not unlike the early battery biased crystal detectors, the battery was used for two purposes.

1. Biasing the spark gap near the break-over voltage. This would make the receiver more sensitive. Note: the object was to produce a spark when the transmitter sparked.
2. When the spark did happen, the stronger battery current would also flow across the spark gap creating a stronger oscillation. - Once the gap ionization was made even lower voltages could bridge the gap.

I understand his statement about detrimental capacitance to be a reference to having too much capacity on the antenna-side. many of his primaries are apparent distributed capacitance rather than inductive coupling.

Case in-point: the obviously very loose inductive coupling on the discussed devices of the heavier gauge coil would prevent any appreciable power transfer with simple inductive coupling to another winding. In most of these examples that coil is only connected on one end. This leaves it to be nothing more than distributed capacitance.

 

Very good, EM!

Quote from: EMdevices on 2013.05.15, 06:26:03
Ion, I think there is quite a bit of current in TK's setup, that's why he uses nice thick copper cables to a well grounded (buried) metallic object, for low resistance, since the currents are quite high but at low voltage perhaps.



All,

I drew this diagram to illustrate how simple his setup really is. Enjoy!

I almost think it's just a resonant converter (which can nicely match a high impedance load to a low impedance source, which appears to be his ground cable, completing the circuit through capacitance back to ground.   Or maybe not, because we can't see inside the green box.    I wish he would open that green box because there will always be doubt about hidden batteries.  In that volume, one can hide so much power.  I just bought an electric lawn mower, which comes with a nice lithium battery pack that's no bigger than my hand, yet packs almost 200 watt-hours of energy, and if I had two of these inside that volume, I could light 4 light bulbs, each 100 watts, for about an hour, and he does not even do that much in the video, he just turns the lights ON for a little bit than OFF.   A very poor test in my opinion.

But I still think his device is real, because I read his patent application and I understand he is tapping in the 50 Hz stray fields/currents from the electric grid through that ground cable.


EM

PS,  Notice that the load is on the secondary, which has FEW turns, to increase the current.  This is why I have been saying that those replications (ikako) seem suspect, because the spark gap feeds the short turn coil.  This is not a Tesla coil, it's just two coils, primary with lots of turns takes high voltage pulses through the spark gap and resonates (perhaps with capacitors inside the green box) and the high magnetic field then cuts the few turns of the secondary and drives the load with high current but lower voltage, which is OK, because the primary has kilo volts on it.

Thanks GK


Guys,

I measure a DC voltage across the ground surface in my back yard.

I measured it across my back yard in various places, and it appears I can get close to 1 volt DC.   ( The ground connection is a tent spike, about 1 ft long,  and the ground is kind of dry today.)

I tried a few pipes and electrical grounds around the house, and they all produce a voltage difference to the spike of around 0.75 volts, but outside by the telephone cover I get close to 1 volt.  

Could this be a galvanic phenomena?  Or truly a DC ground potential due to DC currents flowing East to West across an imperfect ground resistance (which sets up the voltage difference?)  Is this what Stubblefield was doing?

Now I'm confused,  I think in the TK video, we see him burying the radiator deep in the ground, then we also see his connection to the water pipe,  so I think he is using two wires, not just one ground wire.  If that's the case, problem solved, his whole contraption is just an oscillator/inverter powered from low voltage DC currents that flow in the ground.   :-\

EM

edit:  I measured the voltage difference between the ground spike and another pipe I beat into the ground at different distances away  (made of stainless steel).   There is a difference in potential with separation distance, but it's less than 10% of the value, which makes me think that I'm dealing with GALVANIC action, a.k.a earth battery. So much for the earth currents traveling East West theory.   lol   :D
BTW, the ground is very dense and there's lots of clay.

Quote from: Peterae on 2013.05.11, 20:44:23
A friend of mine who works with railway switch gear once said, ground faults in the rail systems are regularly checked, if a problems was left to continue metal structures/beams in the sourrounding buildings would start to literally migrate.

@all on this thread for the last few posts...

Incomplete and faultly insulation is certainly a problem in municipal transportation systems.   True story follows...
     I was crossing the tracks of the local light rail system in San Francisco where I live.   To get past a fence separating both tracks without climbing it, I had to squeeze between the fence and a rail power pole carrying power to the electric trains---which was electrified to a standard 600 VAC @ 60 Hz.   As I did this, a train approached on the tracks and vibrations in the single(hot) line between it and the support insulators caused a partial short to travel down the pole and through me for about 1 second before I could leave the pole.   That didn't feel good, to say the least!!!   A dead short through my heart and whole body would fry me like a hamburger on a grill set on the hghest temperature.
      My point is:  Rail systems aren't always kept up in quality control, especially in a city in financially-strapped Calif.   Also, the 60 Hz mains power can be tapped into easily if one uses a ground rod or inductively coupled coil.

--Lee

Quote from: EMdevices on 2013.05.11, 02:24:48

...

...

The Tariel Kapanadze grounding wire is used to bring the potential from another location to the device's location.   I think over in the former soviet union,(and also former east block countries) you can see from the videos that the infrastructure is quite poor and neglected.  So I imagine they have plenty of ground currents to tap into.

EM
...

...

@EMdevices
Is the Earth potential, say, from the ever-present 7-8 CPS background planetary basic frequency, everywhere on the planet?   Is that what you're seeing on your detection equipment?   Is what you receive the same wavelength as your local municipal mains power frequency (50Hz- 60Hz)?
Maybe a good way to test this might be to go out into the Rockies, Alaska or the bed of theGreat Salt Lake---or any location as far as possible from municipal power sources and see if what you can recieve from the ground is a powerful as what you get in town?

Galvanic processes may be at work as well.   Wetting the pipes driven into the ground might inprove voltage yield.
      I myself built an ambient power system in a large vacant lot in my spare time about 10 yrs ago.   I found enough insulated copper wire around town to make a trail through woods(hidden) about 250' long.   Stripping the insulation off the wire at the individual wire junctions, I tried to make a(successful) complete circuit by clamping alligator clips to both the ground wires and power takeoff wires.  For 'earth battery' round wires, I used heavy steel wire shoved into deliberately wetted ground to soften it.   That was for the anode side.   For the cathode side, I used heavy aluminum wire manufacturers tie products together with and ship on palletized skids.   Both anode and cathode sides were about 6" deep in the ground.   At the halfway point on the far end, I twisted the two wires together and covered them with electrical tape.   For the termination point at the near end, I used a copper pipe beaten into the ground about 6" as well.
     Immedate voltage readout was 1 VDC on a Radio Shack analog VOM.   After 2 hrs., the output had risen to 2 volts.   In mostly dry ground in late Spring.   I had to abandon the project, as my comings and goings, to and from the lot(adjoining an oil well pumper in Okla.), was beginning to attract attention from the local Police.
Note:
      I didn't have a portable, battery-powered soldering iron to solder better connections with.   Money was an issue at the time, as it is now.

--Lee

Quote from: ION on 2013.04.26, 13:41:30
A bifilar (L2, L3) secondary of 80 turns each. Note since these have the same phase there should be a net zero voltage into the output transformer.

Yes, a varying magnetic flux (Φ) externally supplied into the common core, will not result in any voltage appearing across winding terminals connected according to Diag.2a and Diag.2b, therefore these configurations are useless as secondary windings of transformers.
However these configurations (Diag.2a and Diag.2b) can be useful as special primary windings capable of creating a magnetic flux that is perpendicular to their axis between them (e.g. as in NMR).

(http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1541.0;attach=10468)
P.S.
In the diagrams above, the magnetic flux lines represent flux produced by windings operating as primary windings (in other words: windings that are externally supplied with electric current). However, the aforementioned externally supplied flux (e.g. by a 3rd winding) would always have the same direction throughout the core.
Parallel winding connections are not discussed here, but they follow the same principles.

Quote from: ION on 2013.04.25, 14:23:21
Secret sauce? Split aluminum? sheet metal inserted into core, tiny spark gap from flyback transformer (pulsating HV DC at excitation frequency ripple rate), something else inserted into core. (batteries?)

That could be a βNMR Gain Medium where coherent beta particles are released through RF stimulation.  The slot is to prevent bad eddy currents (beta particles can still cross a small gap).
In such case, the minimum diameter (d) of the Gain Medium cannot be less than this:
(http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1541.0;attach=10466)
...where:
m₀ : Rest mass of an electron = 9.1091 X 10^-31 kg
v : Speed of electrons in [meters/second]. See here (http://www.ou.edu/research/electron/bmz5364/calc-kv.html).
c : Speed of light = 299,790,000 meters/second
q : Charge of an electron = 1.602 X 10^-19 coulombs
γ : Gyromagnetic ratio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyromagnetic_ratio) of the Gain Medium in [ radian/(sec * Tesla) ]
f:  Frequency of RF stimulating signal in [Hertz]

If you analyze the above equation for different Gain Media (γ) , then it becomes immediately apparent that for the same frequency (f), iron devices (e.g. Michael Meyer system) are the smallest, zinc ferrite devices (e.g. the Yoke device) are medium sized , and copper devices are the largest.

Quote from: Groundloop on 2013.04.26, 19:08:07
If you "break" down the circuit and simplifiy it, then you end up with something like the attached.
I can see no reason to why this circuit should produce a high output power. Where does the
energy amplification take place? In the spark gap? In the transformer? Any theories?

In my opinion, if these devices actually work, then the sheet/pipe/core is the "Gain Medium" where the energy originates.

Quote from: ION on 2013.04.26, 21:12:30
1) that some type of NMR and beta capture is occurring of either the copper wires themselves, the aluminum insert or some other material not visible.

It is a physical process only aided by electronics.
The process is not based on electronics alone, thus electronic schematic diagrams cannot constitute a complete documentation of such device.

For example, the electronic diagram of a BASER will simply depict one or two primary windings and one secondary winding over some core - just like in a transformer.
The composition and shape of the core, the orthogonal orientation of two magnetic fields (static/LF and HF/RF) and dimensions will be completely ignored by such diagram, despite being at the center of the operating principle.

I give up!

What is a BASER? (Bremsstrahlung Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation?)

Don't give up - you were close

BASER = Beta Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation
It relies on a novel phenomenon of artificially stimulating a coherent anisotropic beta decay by 90deg. nuclear axis tilting by NMR, which generates strong pulses of electric current, in kAmps range (similar to coherent anisotropic light pulses generated by lasers)

oh!


Don't use lead shielding. The exposure damage will be much worse  >:-)

I know. Distance and aluminum is better.

So, the 'excitation' part is due to the angular momentum imposed by traveling through the orthogonal magnetic fields and the results are similar to electric field effects while traveling through the electric fields in a TEA laser?

The main difference being instead of photons being produced the decelerating point charges exchange velocity for heat producing current? If so, there must be coherence between voltage/current phase. Are we talking about producing coherent current flow (p.f. = 1.00000) regardless of load?

I've built TEA lasers with amazing results but the lowest frequencies obtained were in the infrared region. It has occurred to me that the same principles could be used to produce RF, as seen in the so-called LENR experiments. I've always suspected the RF generating versions of LENR produced RF the same way a MASER produced microwaves. Theoretically, the signal generation bandwidth isn't limited.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.06.13, 20:46:10
So, the 'excitation' part is due to the angular momentum imposed by traveling through the orthogonal magnetic fields

In the BASER the atoms of the Gain Medium are not traveling. They are stationary.
The primary excitation is through absorption of RF by the nuclei of the Gain Medium.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.06.13, 20:46:10
and the results are similar to electric field effects while traveling through the electric fields in a TEA laser?

There is some similarity in that the Gain Medium is transversely excited.
The polarizing/confining static magnetic field, the stimulating RF magnetic field and the velocity vector of the fast electrons are all mutually perpendicular to each other.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.06.13, 20:46:10
The main difference being instead of photons being produced the decelerating point charges exchange velocity for heat producing current?

In the BASER, fast electrons (or positrons) are produced instead of photons. The path of these fast electrons is circular in the Gain Medium, due to magnetic confinement (Lorentz deflection).
These electrons move close to the speed of light (~500keV) and they do not interact with the matter of Gain Medium even if it is a solid (unlike slow conduction electrons).  
For example fast electrons travel without much interaction up to several millimeters in solids, before they slow down enough to be captured and and cause thermal vibration of the Gain Medium's lattice (resulting in Joule heating).  See the attachment for non-directionalized paths of fast electrons in a solid.
Such fast electrons don't require a conductor and can even cross small air gaps. Nonetheless, these electrons still constitute electric current because they are traveling and directionalized charged particles (the very definition of current) - I like to call the directionalized and coherent stream of beta particles a "beta current".
Beta current produces magnetic field just like an ordinary current composed of slow conduction electrons.  It is this changing magnetic field that can be inductively coupled to an output winding.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.06.13, 20:46:10
If so, there must be coherence between voltage/current phase. Are we talking about producing coherent current flow (p.f. = 1.00000) regardless of load?

There is some coherence.  There is also a small delay between the stimulating RF pulse (an input) and the output pulse caused by the stimulated beta current.
Note that the beta current pulse destroys its own circular magnetic confinement field, by creating a magnetic field that opposes the confining static magnetic field and causing the expansion of fast electron's orbits out of the Gain Medium.  This causes the output pulse to be self-quenching.
Inductive coupling of this output pulse (a removal of energy) maintains the confining field via Lenz law, thus drawing power prolongs the magnetic confinement and the output pulse with it.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.06.13, 20:46:10
I've built TEA lasers with amazing results but the lowest frequencies obtained were in the infrared region. It has occurred to me that the same principles could be used to produce RF, as seen in the so-called LENR experiments. I've always suspected the RF generating versions of LENR produced RF the same way a MASER produced microwaves. Theoretically, the signal generation bandwidth isn't limited.

The BASER does not have a low frequency limit, but it does have an upper frequency limit.  This is because it takes a very specific amount of time to tilt the nuclear spin axes in the Gain Medium by 90deg.
Because of this the BASER's output is pulsed.  A continuous operation would require an indefinite magnetic confinement and that would be explosive in nature since the beta current increases exponentially while the confinement is maintained.  Fortunately the Gain Media has boundaries and beta current pulses are self-quenching.

Verpies:

Everything you stated in the above post rings bells of Steve Mark's first TPU.

e.g.

1) The high speed beta current possibly creates the slight gyroscopic effect witnessed in his devices

2) The heating effect I calculated would take about 15 amps flow, yet he was drawing less than an amp. Could be the Joule heating due to capture as you stated.

3) The use of Helmholtz coils. Something like these is seen in the first TPU.

4) The washboard effect would be created by the self quenching pulse negating the gyro effect. Re-establishment of the beta current creates the stiction.

The video you referenced to me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03KebG_hZMQ) shows the tilt of the Helmholtz coils.

If you have not studied the TPU anomalies it is a good read. (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=403.0)

That is all very interesting and sounds completely plausible.

Do you have any links for this specific '?ASER' theory, function or examples of experiments?

Much of your description of a BASER fits my theory of a TPU  O0

I have never studied the TPU, but at the 1st look it has the correct geometry (two disks with a magnet between them and output windings at the perimeters of the disks).  See the attachment.

Electrons have mass, albeit 1830 times less than a hydrogen nucleus and ~100,000 less than an iron nucleus.
...thus a large amount of fast electrons, ejected from nuclei IN THE SAME DIRECTION, will create a perceivable mechanical recoil (just like a small fast bullet exiting a gun causes a recoil in the opposite direction).  Naturally, circular path of the ejecta will cause a circular recoil.

I don't know what a washboard effect is, but if it refers to mechanical pulsing then this is to be expected from that mechanical recoil at each output pulse.
In a well designed device the heating will be minimal (only due to electron recapture), but if the Gain Medium is conductive (and capable of supporting Eddy currents) then it will be subject to strong inductive heating.  Ideally, the Gain Medium should not be conductive or it should have a slot cut in it to interrupt the wasteful Eddy currents.

The BASER is sensitive to orientation if it operates at a fixed NMR frequency and is incapable of altering it in response to the changing Earth's magnetic field vector, that varies with the orientation of the device.

Regarding the "washboard" effect,  SM often demonstrated his larger unit atop a couple of smooth table leaf's with some soft cloth so that they could slide easily, and encouraged interested parties to push the TPU back and forth to feel the ripples as it seemed to tug at space itself.

With the smaller devices, folks could feel the tugging effect as it was moved through the air.

There was also a slight vibration and slight gyroscopic effect.

The heating effect was a large problem and devices could only run for a hour or so then needed to be shut down to cool off, then could be restarted again.

Some of the devices had excellent regulation, others had poor regulation.

Huge short circuit currents were demonstrated in one test. (see the Shinzinger Lab Reports ) in the link posted earlier.

Are we to understand then that the
BASER could be capable of producing
anomalous excess energy?

In the cases of both the MASER and the
LASER the output energy is some portion
of the input energy; their efficiencies are
considerably less than 100%.

Yes, in the BASER the RF NMR stimulation (input energy) merely makes the fast electron emission more probable and anisotropic (it makes other nuclei more susceptible to secondary emissions, too).
The energy of fast electrons does not come from the external RF stimulation.  The nucleus loses mass after ejecting the fast electron (or positron), thus it is a mass-->energy conversion.  This process is incapable of converting all of the Gain Medium's mass into energy.  It can only convert the mass difference between neutrons and protons, but that's still a lot of energy. Someone recently calculated the energy equivalent of 22000 Liters of gasoline from a 1kg block of solid Gain Medium (Fe or Cu or Zn ...and perhaps Al). Lighter elements have higher Joule/kg ratio because in such elements the electron to nucleus mass is higher (no reason to carry around the dead weight of multiple protons).

In a LASER or MASER the energy of the photons comes from the excitation of the atoms/electrons by external stimulation (input energy), thus they are 100% efficient at best.
BTW: The circular magnetic confinement has the same function as the linear confinement by mirrors at the ends of a laser.

Is there any information suspecting or stating that the gain medium in a BASER suffers from advanced or enhanced oxidation? -or- ECM (electrochemical migration)?

Yes, whiskers have been observed in the air gap of slotted Zn media.
No info on oxidation, though.

SM's first TPU was sensitive to orientation with the earth magnetic field, and the voltage would wind down if inverted. He admitted that he did not know why.

Also, it took a few seconds to wind up to full voltage. A small weak magnet needed to be inserted for the voltage to begin windup. He claimed his first unit would provide 25 Watts "forever" and that it was a "conversion" process.

Here is a crisp video of the first device with some explanation by the inventor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHswoNpc0Tk

As an engineer with over 50 years experience in the field of electronics, I am still intrigued by the SM devices and regard them as one of the truly interesting phenomenon to hit the OU airwaves in the last twenty years far and above anything out there except perhaps the recent eastern block activity. All SM's work died out around 1997 except for a few videos he made to document his success. SM was given a gag order by the gov't with an AEC member present.

There are many hoaxers on the youtube claiming to have replicated TPU. To my knowledge no one has succeeded.

I am not trying to hijack this thread, just want to point out the similarities, and hope that you can expand on your work as it is most interesting.

Let's get started with a first cut device, where we can experiment with tuning the frequency and field. You seem to prefer the disc approach over slotted cylinder that we see in at least one of the TK replications by e.g Ikako Chubinidze.

Would not a single disc held between two coils work. Why do you prefer the dual disc design of your spool drawing? Is it a magnetically more efficient use of fields?

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.14, 14:34:46
I am not trying to hijack this thread, just want to point out the similarities, and hope that you can expand on your work as it is most interesting.

I know. There are many similarities, indeed.

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.14, 14:34:46
You seem to prefer the disc approach over slotted cylinder that we see in at least one of the TK replications by e.g Ikako Chubinidze.

I like the disk better because it allows for a wider range of magnetic fields and NMR frequencies, in which the beta current can be sustained. A thin pipe requires very precise density of the magnetic field and a precise NMR frequency.  This makes it very hard to tune.
Of course, one can use a "shotgun approach" and modulate the confining magnetic field around the anticipated flux density with some low frequency (e.g. 50Hz) and the precise NMR frequency tuning can also be eliminated by generating many frequencies at once (e.g. by nanosecond pulses)... but that creates other problems.
In the end, I think it might be beneficial to cut a 0.5mm slit in the disk, to get rid of the bad eddy currents, too.  Ideally the disk should not be electrically conductive at all. (beta current does not need that).

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.14, 14:34:46
Would not a single disc held between two coils work.

It would, just not as well.

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.14, 14:34:46
Why do you prefer the dual disc design of your spool drawing? Is it a magnetically more efficient use of fields?

The dual disk design creates a symmetric magnetic flux that is perpendicular to the flat surface of the disks and less dense closer to the center of the disk (this is needed for effective Lorentz confinement).
Also, there is a problem with excessively large magnetic confinement radius of the fast electrons when the static magnetic field is too weak.  Closed magnetic paths, or a paths with lower reluctance (less air gap) increase the density of the static polarizing/confinement field in the Gain Medium and decrease the confinement radius.
Finally, cheap ceramic magnets with large air gaps have a problem creating sufficient flux density in the Gain Medium to achieve circular confinement below r=50cm and NdFeB magnets are expensive and conductive ( killer eddy currents again  >:( )

Increasing the magnetic field decreases the confinement radius (and the need for a large disk/pipe) but it increases the NMR frequency.
High frequency is bad because the skin effect limits RF penetration into the Gain Medium (this is especially a problem if the Gain Medium is very conductive and/or has a high magnetic permeability).  That's why Michael Meyer saturates his Iron medium in order to get rid of its high permeability.

Verpies quote:

QuoteIdeally the disk should not be electrically conductive at all. (beta current does not need that).

We yet wonder if the wire spool (gain medium) SM used was plastic or metal. It is difficult to determine if the coils wound around the edges were the collection coils or field coils, and the oscillation frequency was created by a single transistor or FET oscillator as there is no sophisticated electronics anywhere to be found. We have yet to determine the use of the dual winding toroidal coil that resembles a common mode choke placed at the center of the device.

The small magnet was too weak to saturate the core of the central toroid, but may have biased it to produce sharp pulses for the NMR stimulating frequency.

What is intriguing of the eastern devices is the use of a very small spark gap, far too small to transport the energy we see in the videos. This must be the stimulating pulse source.

I've been thinking about possible relationships between the slotted cylinder designs and common TEA lasers.

Assuming that that large conductor external coil is primarily one capacitive surface and the slotted pipe the other, the spark gaps, etc., it could very well be functioning like a TEA laser.
When you add the other coils you have a possible magnetic confinement.

I will bet that a change from that large external coil to a cylinder would result in a UV laser beam  8)

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.14, 15:58:34
the oscillation frequency was created by a single transistor or FET oscillator as there is no sophisticated electronics anywhere to be found.

I would expect a small electronic oscillator or a spark-gap for generating many frequencies at once.  This should not be self-starting.

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.14, 15:58:34
We have yet to determine the use of the dual winding toroidal coil that resembles a common mode choke placed at the center of the device.

There is always the possibility of a hidden circumferential winding under the toroidal winding.  I caught that trick on one of TK videos, once.
Anyway, a common-mode choke would be good for smoothing out the pulsed output.

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.14, 15:58:34
The small magnet was too weak to saturate the core of the central toroid, but may have biased it to produce sharp pulses for the NMR stimulating frequency.

Yes, the saturation of an Iron core requires helluva magnet or current, but for paramagnetic media this is not necessary.
However, the circular confinement and NMR frequency is strongly affected even by weak fields.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.06.14, 17:11:46
When you add the other coils you have a possible magnetic confinement.

...or ring permanent magnets.

Quote from: verpies on 2013.06.14, 10:58:33
Yes, whiskers have been observed in the air gap of slotted Zn media.
No info on oxidation, though.

Do you have a reference for this effect?

Also, SM cautioned against tuning precisely on frequency as a meltdown could occur. He recommended a "control" means of limiting feedback if the system is looped to prevent a runaway condition.

He also talked about very fast particles (electrons?) once the influence of earth magnetic field is "nulled".

What would you choose for a gain medium as a starter project? Galvanized (Zinc coated) sheet metal is readily available.

Regarding non-metallic gain media, any thoughts? should it be elemental e.g. carbon? Do other atoms in the material impede or do they have no effect on the high speed circulating electrons?

SM's larger toroidal units had single turn "collector coils" embedded in a soft "cork like" material. An intermediate unit (referred to as the "open TPU") used plastic hoops with windings on the periphery.

Could you explain a little further or possibly mark up your "spool3" drawing showing the orientation of the static magnetic vs excitation field ? Where is the excitation coil? Magnet polarity? difficult to get an idea of the relative size of the gain medium (thickness) vs magnetic "former".



Thanks in advance.

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.15, 14:16:35
Do you have a reference for this effect?

Yes, the artificial beta stimulation by RF alone is described in Patent EP0099946B1 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1541.0;attach=10506).
The artificial beta stimulation by RF + perpendicular static magnetic field is related to the above but requires less input power.
The mean free path of fast electrons and positrons inside matter is published in ICRU Report 37 (http://www.icru.org/home/reports/stopping-powers-for-electrons-and-positions-report-37).

The circular confinement of moving charged particles by static magnetic fields is 19th century physics and a principle used in every cyclotron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron).  References embedded in this image (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1541.0;attach=10474) refer to it.

The "effect" I was referring to was the "growth of whiskers" in a gapped gain medium of Zn.

I do already understand the operation of a cyclotron, but thank you anyway for the links.

Perhaps it is buried in the patent you referenced, but I did not find it.

The patent under the heading "other configurations" (page 30, paragraph 40) mention the use of the field of a a "large hollow torus" as a means to induce beta decay.

Transmission lines were mentioned in the prior paragraph.

We can see both of these in the SM devices.

In the picture attached we see SM priming the large torus device with a small round magnet from a speaker.

I now believe that many hundreds of failures of attempted replication of SM's TPU's occurred  because the builders had not a clue to the operational mechanism as beta decay. They did not consider the proper gain medium, nor the key stimulation frequency for that medium.

Many were just building conventional toroidal transformers of low efficiency. These would deliver AC output. SM's devices were DC with a lot of "hash" noise riding on top along with a slight ripple frequency around 5kHz.

In light of the new hypothesis of possible operation, we can now take another look at a successful build for these.

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.16, 13:47:29
The "effect" I was referring to was the "growth of whiskers" in a gapped gain medium of Zn.

Oh, the "whiskers" are described here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisker_%28metallurgy%29).

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.16, 13:47:29
The patent under the heading "other configurations" (page 30, paragraph 40) mention the use of the field of a a "large hollow torus" as a means to induce beta decay.
Transmission lines were mentioned in the prior paragraph.

I believe that many configurations are possible based on these operating principles.
Also it is possible to make some generalizations. For example: devices using magnetic confinement  of speeding charged particles have a circular shape, e.g. a torus, disk, pipe, etc...

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.16, 13:47:29
We can see both of these in the SM devices.
In the picture attached we see SM priming the large torus device with a small round magnet from a speaker.

Yes, the TPU has many points of coincidence.

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.16, 13:47:29
I now believe that many hundreds of failures of attempted replication of SM's TPU's occurred  because the builders had not a clue to the operational mechanism as beta decay. They did not consider the proper gain medium, nor the key stimulation frequency for that medium.

I think that there are two ways of building these exotic devices.
1) Blindly replicating everything to the dot from a very exhaustive documentation (without understanding and without ego improvements).
2) Building a custom optimized design with the understanding the operational mechanisms.

Without it there are so many variables to coordinate, that blindly hitting upon their correct combination, borders a miracle.

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.16, 13:47:29
Many were just building conventional toroidal transformers of low efficiency. These would deliver AC output. SM's devices were DC with a lot of "hash" noise riding on top along with a slight ripple frequency around 5kHz.

The electronic schematic for those devices will look like a schematic of a transformer with multiple windings.  The really important issues like the orientation of the windings, core shape and material, magnetic field geometry, waveforms will be disregarded. For example take a look at the STAAAR Yoke Device schematic, below.

(http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1541.0;attach=10515)

It looks like a transformer with weird windings, but the energy in the secondary most likely originates from the physical processes taking place in the core - not from the Faraday induction from the primary.  I remember somebody came to conclusion that this device was impossible because the secondary to primary voltages did not reflect the primary to secondary turn ratio.  That was a valid critique for a conventional transformer... but the Yoke device only looked as such.

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.16, 13:47:29
In light of the new hypothesis of possible operation, we can now take another look at a successful build for these.

Even with knowing the M.O. it is hard with some Gain Media.  For example the Full Width Half Maximum (FWHM) of NMR resonance for Zinc is ±0.5Hz for a 100kHz stimulating frequency. Thats 5ppm!  You can't get this kind of accuracy with a 555 Timer.
Without precise signal generators, the kitchen table experimenter is relegated to "less sharp" Gain Media or inefficient "Shotgun Approach" of nanopulsing or slow FM, in order to hit the right frequency.

Even less productive is when almost everyone is shot-gunning at the wrong target.

When I proposed that part of the basic function had to be similar to a betatron but with some rotating function I took shots of all kinds from every angle. People are hell-bent on a TPU working like a conventional transformer or the control circuit being the key.

Those haven't been my views since around 2006.

What could be the result if you could place a charge at one point on a circular track and then squeeze it around a circular path under the control of magnetic and electrostatic confinement?

I would think that the track could be dielectric between two charged rings (ring shaped capacitor)(in the case of the 'small-toroid' it would be a spiral delay line with two added windings each opposing the other).

The trick may be in 'stopping' that charge at a rate that would prevent increasing load from causing a meltdown.

The positioning of the clamp meter when the reading is highest (clamps closed and no conductor going through them) provides the orientation of current flow (no conductor).

Careful, folks. It looks like some may be connecting the same dots I did starting in 2007. You may need to look for a friendly haven of a forum in order to speak your mind  ;D

BTW:

The 'frequencies' would be based upon the charge halt rate and the velocity of charge needed for travel around the ring. That velocity would be controlled magnitudes less that a free charge in motion in a magnetic confinement. One or both could be the difference between or the sum of others but the resulting rotational speed should result in subharmonics propagating well in the dielectric track at audible levels.

Audio analysis indicated all produced multiple frequencies. The larger the diameter the lower the base frequency (base meaning loudest). In all cases, the frequencies seemed to be rooted by multiples of 360 or 1800.

SM stated that a rotating field was present in the TPU and a necessary part of the device.

If beta particle emission is the underlying operating principle of the TPU, why is a rotating field required?

Nuclei that have non-zero spin (eg.: Fe, Ni, Cu, Zn, Al, H) can be resonated by:
1) A combination of two magnetic fields
   a) A static magnetic field
   b) A high frequency (HF) alternating magnetic field (perpendicular to 1a)
2) A rotating magnetic field (created by e.g. two-phased HF perpendicular fields that are 90º out of phase, see attachment).

For NMR experiments usually the method from pt.1 is used because it is easier (one HF field is easier to make than two).

(http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1541.0;attach=10529)

This excerpt from the patent tells a lot regarding various methods that may be used with transmission lines.

The patent also states that the line must be equal to an integer number of half wavelengths of the resonant frequency to produce the desired effect.

The dielectric in the transmission line then constitutes the "fuel", according to the patent.

It was said that SM carefully trimmed the the wire (probably twin wire lampcord) to the correct length.

TK went to great lengths to procure a special coaxial cable.

Nice work on the vector diagrams, Verpies

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.06.16, 21:47:08
Even less productive is when almost everyone is shot-gunning at the wrong target.

Do you mean wrong frequency or wrong Modus Operandi ?

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.06.16, 21:47:08
When I proposed that part of the basic function had to be similar to a betatron but with some rotating function I took shots of all kinds from every angle. People are hell-bent on a TPU working like a conventional transformer or the control circuit being the key.

Betatrons are well established devices that accelerate charged particles.  Conventional transformers and Betatrons do not exhibit O/I ratio greater than one.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.06.16, 21:47:08
What could be the result if you could place a charge at one point on a circular track and then squeeze it around a circular path under the control of magnetic and electrostatic confinement?

A charged particle would orbit the track and radiate cyclotron radiation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron_radiation).  When the velocity of the charged particle decreases due to collisions with matter or radiation, then the particle spirals down.
Fast electrons (>0.5c) can penetrate solid matter up to several millimeters without collision with atoms or free positrons. (see the ICRU report #37 (http://www.icru.org/home/reports/stopping-powers-for-electrons-and-positions-report-37)).  Slow electrons are captured almost immediately by solid matter of a dielectric.

Quote from: verpies on 2013.06.17, 20:03:35
Nuclei that have non-zero spin (eg.: Fe, Ni, Cu, Zn, Al, H) can be resonated by:
1) A combination of two magnetic fields
   a) A static magnetic field
   b) A high frequency (HF) alternating magnetic field (perpendicular to pt.1a)
2) A rotating magnetic field (created by e.g. two HF perpendicular fields that are 90º out of phase, see attachment).

For NMR experiments usually the method from pt.1 is used because it is easier (one HF field are easier to make than two).

What happens when these nuclei are resonated?

A combination of magnetic perpendicular fields and a rotating magnetic field are explained by conventional induction.

Aren't these same nuclei affected by other forces beside magnetic ones?

Quote from: verpies on 2013.06.17, 20:25:59
Do you mean wrong frequency or wrong Modus Operandi ?

I was referring to almost every researcher insisting that transformer theory covered the TPU operation. (Even when they stated otherwise the ideas always fell back on common induction.)

Quote
Betatrons are well established devices that accelerate charged particles.  Conventional transformers and Betatrons do not exhibit O/I ratio greater than one.

"Conventional", yes.
There was one specific type that powered its own heater and used in electronic warfare during the cold war on board high flying aircraft. I can only say it was special and part of EMP equipment which I never gained access to details.

To this day I deeply regret not looking into the details. It had an overall toroidal winding with two levels of radial field windings. The visual configuration must have been for some form of rotation.

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.17, 20:15:45
This excerpt from the patent tells a lot regarding various methods that may be used with transmission lines.

Please keep in mind, that a single 1-dimensional HF filed (eg. a standing wave in a coax) requires much more power to excite the nuclei than a 2-dimensional field (as described in my post here (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1541.msg32276#msg32276) in pt.1 or pt.2 ).

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.06.17, 20:45:39
A combination of magnetic perpendicular fields and a rotating magnetic field are explained by conventional induction.

Only true for simple motor rotation. The field never rotates, even though everyone calls it a rotating magnetic field.

AFAIK, there is only one way to produce a truly rotating magnetic field. This would require the use of two vector summing fields 90 deg out of phase from each other.
The B-field created between them would actually rotate. The problem is that the resultant field would have no inductive effect because there would be no change in magnetic field density for any point around its circumference.

I would think that somehow changing that resultant field from a single magnetic bubble with useless spin to a smaller bubble that included rotation around a point along with spin would be beneficial to containing an causing an orbiting charge. That could be used to provide power.

Anyone know how to make it happen?

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.06.17, 20:45:39
What happens when these nuclei are resonated?

Their spins axes are tilted (see here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aRKAXD4dAg) and here (https://www.youtube.com/user/magritek?feature=watch)) and this exposes their inner neutrons.
Exposed or free neutrons decay spontaneously in 15min (half-life) ejecting fast electrons (>0.9c).

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.06.17, 20:45:39
A combination of magnetic perpendicular fields and a rotating magnetic field are explained by conventional induction.

I theory, perpendicular magnetic fields do not affect each other nor perpendicular conductors.
Crossed fields significantly affect matter, though.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.06.17, 20:45:39
Aren't these same nuclei affected by other forces beside magnetic ones?

Of course. They are affected by all forces - including gravity.
However, their spin-axes are affected only by magnetic fields and other spinning particles.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.06.17, 20:58:53
Only true for simple motor rotation. The field never rotates, even though everyone calls it a rotating magnetic field.

AFAIK, there is only one way to produce a truly rotating magnetic field. This would require the use of two vector summing fields 90 deg out of phase from each other.
The B-field created between them would actually rotate. The problem is that the resultant field would have no inductive effect because there would be no change in magnetic field density for any point around its circumference.

I would think that somehow changing that resultant field from a single magnetic bubble with useless spin to a smaller bubble that included rotation around a point along with spin would be beneficial to containing an causing an orbiting charge. That could be used to provide power.

Anyone know how to make it happen?

I was referring to simple motors.

If I rotate a bar magnet, end over end, then is the magnetic field "rotating"?

Anyone familiar with the Marinov MAGVID?  Four coils, 90 degrees apart.  He drove them 90 degrees out of phase to create "something".  This device also had a static dc coil around all of the coils to impart a perpendicular magnetic field.

All I was getting at is that magnetic fields require energy to create, and they don't usually produce more energy.  The "other spinning particles" are affecting the spin-axis of nuclei.

How does exciting the nuclei relate to induced current?

Do you mean a current induced in the secondary winding of the BASER ?

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.06.17, 21:39:05
I was referring to simple motors.

If I rotate a bar magnet, end over end, then is the magnetic field "rotating"?

Working with you before, I should have assumed so  :)
No, the magnetic field isn't rotating but the magnet is.

Quote
Anyone familiar with the Marinov MAGVID?  Four coils, 90 degrees apart.  He drove them 90 degrees out of phase to create "something".  This device also had a static dc coil around all of the coils to impart a perpendicular magnetic field.

Yes. The reported result was supposed to be the pulling of ambient charge along the horizontal plane into the device. This ambient charge gained angular and axial momentum as it traveled through the crossed fields. It was said that a column of static sensitive particles in the air appeared above the device several floors above.

Quote
All I was getting at is that magnetic fields require energy to create, and they don't usually produce more energy.  Verpies mentions "other spinning particles" in his reply, as affecting the spin-axis of nuclei.

Yes. A magnetic field cannot effect energy levels. That would be true for changing or static magnetic fields. I think the question may be.... can crossed and containing magnetic fields control highly energetic particles in a way that power can be used.

Quote from: verpies on 2013.06.17, 22:12:49
Do you mean a current induced in the secondary winding of the BASER ?

yes

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.06.17, 21:39:05
If I rotate a bar magnet, end over end, then is the magnetic field "rotating"?

I'd think yes, if I understand "end over end" correctly.
I'd need an axis diagram to be sure.

Note, that in this topic, we recently discussed progressively complex arrangements of magnetic fields. Namely:
1) A static field + perpendicular high frequency alternating field.
2) Two perpendicular high frequency alternating fields (forming a 2D rotating field when 90º out-of-phase)
3) A static field + perpendicular high frequency rotating field (a 3D structure)

(pt.1 & pt.2 are used in NMR).

(http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1541.0;attach=10533)

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.06.17, 21:39:05
Verpies mentions "other spinning particles" in his reply, as affecting the spin-axis of nuclei.

Yes, such spin-oriented particles are used in some spectroscopic techniques such as μSR or βNMR (http://bnmr.triumf.ca/?file=Introduction)

Static magnetic fields do not create energy by themselves.
It takes energy to establish them and to increase them.  They change the paths and directionalize charged particles, though ...and they also affect nuclear spins.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.06.17, 21:45:19
How does exciting the nuclei relate to induced current?

Exciting the nuclei doesn't directly cause the induced current in the secondary winding.
It is the pulsed circular beta current (consisting of fast electrons or positrons) that forms a pulsed magnetic field, that is directly coupled by the secondary winding through Faraday's induction.

The function of the HF primary winding is to create the stimulated emission of the energetic beta particles out of the excited nuclei.  After directionalization by nuclear spin-axis polarization and Lorentz deflection in the static magnetic field, those beta particles become circularly confined in the Gain Medium (core) and form the beta current.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.06.17, 22:15:23
No, the magnetic field isn't rotating but the magnet is.

If this is correct then I misunderstood the phrase "end over end".

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.06.17, 22:15:23
Yes. The reported result was supposed to be the pulling of ambient charge along the horizontal plane into the device.

The report also described ionization of the object inside the rotating field by pulling its charges outward.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.06.17, 22:15:23
Yes. A magnetic field cannot effect energy levels. That would be true for changing or static magnetic fields.

I agree that static magnetic field does not affect energy levels of charged particles.
However changing magnetic fields do.
For example: the Betatron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betatron) accelerates charged particles or the rotating-field blower accelerates charged-dust particles to blow them out of clean-rooms (see my post above).

Quote from: verpies on 2013.06.17, 23:02:55
Exciting the nuclei doesn't directly cause the induced current in the secondary winding.
It is the pulsed circular beta current (consisting of fast electrons or positrons) that forms a pulsed magnetic field, that is directly coupled by the secondary winding through Faraday's induction.

The function of the HF primary winding is to create the stimulated emission of the energetic beta particles out of the excited nuclei.  After directionalization by nuclear spin-axis polarization and Lorentz deflection in the static magnetic field, those beta particles become circularly confined in the Gain Medium (core) and form the beta current.

SM said that they put a TPU in a tub of water and that this was a disaster, adding that the tub was emptied very quickly.  I don't see how beta current can explain this.

It can't.
Beta current is not that different from ordinary current carried by slow charge carriers.  The most significant difference is that it does not require a conductor (speeding electrons just don't care).

Quote from: verpies on 2013.06.17, 23:10:28
If this is correct then I misunderstood the phrase "end over end".

I believe your understanding is correct but I always consider a field to be a property of space, not the object.
As an example: a bowl of firm gelatin.... insert a pencil at the center of the gelatin with pencil pointing down. Inserting the pencil only displaces the gelatin. It doesn't spin the gelatin even when you spin the pencil.
Insert the pencil into the gelatin with the pencil parallel to the gelatin's surface. Rotate the pencil about the pencil's mid-point. The only thing that happens to the gelatin is a different form of displacement.

Quote
The report also described ionization of the object inside the rotating field by pulling its charges outward.
I agree that static magnetic field does not affect energy levels of charged particles.
However a changing magnetic fields do.

My words were poorly chosen. I agree but I'm sure it is agreed that a magnetic field, static or changing, doesn't add to or subtract from the energy applied to it.

------

Sorry about the gelatin example :-\

From my experience, statements below often start an unproductive theoretical flame war, but I have to state it nonetheless.

IMO opinion space is just a reference system created by gravitating matter, that is devoid of any properties besides three-dimensionality of distance and direction.
The consequence of the above is that space cannot be twisted, bent, curved as in GR, except for an illusion of interaction between expected and actual reference systems.
This also means that IMO aether does not exist and neither do black holes as singularities.

I have no desire to defend these statements but I will if I am provoked.
I don't want this thread to deteriorate from a nice engineering discussion, we had so far, into a theoretical debate that will not bring us closer to a working device.

No flame war is useful or required.

It is good for me to understand your thoughts on this matter and I'll consider them on any thoughts I offer to advance this discussion.

Thanks for your consideration and keeping us on track.
I find that I can usually keep my engineering concepts separate from my theoretical musings, which I don't want to impose on anyone.

The empirical formulas that I use in reference to these exotic devices are not much affected by my theoretical framework, anyway.

Quote from: verpies on 2013.06.18, 06:27:21
From my experience, statements below often start an unproductive theoretical flame war, but I have to state it nonetheless.

IMO opinion space is just a reference system created by gravitating matter, that is devoid of any properties besides three-dimensionality of distance and direction.
The consequence of the above is that space cannot be twisted, bent, curved as in GR, except for an illusion of interaction between expected and actual reference systems.
This also means the IMO aether does not exist and neither do black holes as singularities.

I have no desire to defend these statements but I will if I am provoked.
I don't want this thread to deteriorate from a nice engineering discussion, we had so far, into a theoretical debate that will not bring us closer to a working device.

"devoid of any properties besides three-dimensionality of distance and direction.  The consequence of the above is that space cannot be twisted, bent, curved as in GR, except for an illusion of interaction between expected and actual reference systems.
This also means the IMO aether does not exist and neither do black holes as singularities."

Magnetic and electric fields reside in this space that you say has no properties.   

Vacuum has permittivity and permeability.  Aren't those properties of "space"?

Tesla concluded that space consisted of  charges in a dielectric.

Paul Dirac reached a similar conclusion, termed the Dirac Sea, of charged virtual particles.

Harold Aspden proved that "space" has an inherent rotational factor (see the "Aspden Effect").

I was hoping to avoid all that again.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.06.18, 14:14:03
Magnetic and electric fields reside in this space that you say has no properties.

Yes, IMO magnetic, electric and gravitational fields are not properties of space. They are the properties of motion of matter and relations between their motions.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.06.18, 14:14:03
Vacuum has permittivity and permeability.  Aren't those properties of "space"?

IMO they are not.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.06.18, 14:14:03
Tesla concluded that space consisted of  charges in a dielectric.
Paul Dirac reached a similar conclusion, termed the Dirac Sea, of charged virtual particles.
Harold Aspden proved that "space" has an inherent rotational factor (see the "Aspden Effect").

I know about all that. Those are just fudges.
I know that legacy science implies that space (and time) are endowed with these magical properties.  IMO it is not.

Space and time are just geometrical reference systems - they are not filled with a seas of "magical" fluid.
Those are just conceptual crutches.

Interesting.

Where are you now with the device discussed in this thread?

We can look at the inventions of Roy J Meyers and Hans Coler. They both employed a somewhat similar motiff of oscillating current passing through the gain medium and an orthogonal oscillating magnetic field superimposed upon it.

In the case of Meyers, he used Zn rods and in other cases Zn plates as part of the current path. These were held between the poles of an electromagnet which passed the same oscillating current. (see attachment)

Coler used rod magnets (possibly  Al Ni Co invented 1931) with wires soldered to them and coils wrapped around the rods. (see attachment)

Could these be early examples of accidentally induced beta decay? There have been no other plausible explanations to date and the devices were reported to be somewhat finicky to run, requiring careful adjustment.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.06.18, 16:50:29
Where are you now with the device discussed in this thread?

Stalled due to non-technical problems.

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.18, 17:01:11
We can look at the inventions of Roy J Meyers and Hans Coler. They both employed a somewhat similar motiff of oscillating current passing through the gain medium and an orthogonal oscillating magnetic field superimposed upon it.

In the case of Meyers, he used Zn rods and in other cases Zn plates as part of the current path. These were held between the poles of an electromagnet which passed the same oscillating current. (see attachment)

Coler used rod magnets ( Al Ni Co) with wires soldered to them and coils wrapped around the rods. (see attachment)

Could these be early examples of accidentally induced beta decay? There have been no other plausible explanations to date and the devices were reported to be somewhat finicky to run, requiring careful adjustment.

In the post of Meyers patent here, http://www.viewzone.com/meyers/ , figure 8 shows the simplest embodiment of the device.  This example is a simple proof of concept.

Meyer's comments n "figure 8":

In Figure 8 I have illustrated an apparatus which though apparently primitive in construction and arrangement comprehends the first successful embodiment which I produced in the course of discovery of the present invention, and it will be observed that the essential features of the invention are therein disclosed. The structure delineated in said figure consists of horseshoe magnets 54, 55, one facing north and the other south, that is, each opening in the respective directions indicated and the two being connected by an iron wire 55 which is uninsulated and wrapped about the respective magnets each end portion of the wire 55 being extended from the respective magnets to and connected with, as by being soldered to, a zinc plate 56, there being a plate 56 for each magnet and each plate being arranged longitudinally substantially parallel with the legs of the magnet and with the faces of the plate exposed toward the respective legs of the magnet, the plate being thus arranged endwise toward the north and south. An iron wire 57 connects the plates 56, the ends of the wire being preferably connected adjacent the outer ends of the plates but from experiment I find that the wire may be connected at practically any point to the plate. Lead wires 58 and 59 are connected respectively with the wires 55 and 57 and supply an alternating current at a comparatively low tension, and to control such current the wires 58 and 59 may be extended to a rectifier or combined rectifier and intensifier, as above set forth.

The tests which I have found successful with the apparatus seen in Figure 8 were carried out by the employment first of horseshoe magnets approximately 4 inches in length, the bar comprising the horseshoe being about one inch square, the zincs being dimensioned proportionately and from this apparatus with the employment of a single intensifier and rectifier, as above stated, I was able to obtain a constant current of 8 volts.

It should be obvious that the magnets forming one of the electrodes of this apparatus may be permanent or may be electromagnets, or a combination of the two.

While the magnets mentioned throughout the above may be formed of any magnetic substance, I find the best results obtained by the employment of the nickel chrome steel.

While the successful operation of the various devices which I have constructed embodying the present invention have not enabled me to arrive definitely and positively at fixed conclusion relative to the principles and theories of operation and the source from which current is supplied, I wish it to be understood that I consider myself as the first inventor of the general type here-in-before described capable of producing commercially serviceable electricity, for which reason my claims hereinafter appended contemplate that I may utilize a wide range of equivalents so far as concerns details of construction suggested as preferably employed.

The current which I am able to obtain is dynamic in the sense that it is not static and its production is accomplished without chemical or mechanical action either incident to the actual chemical or mechanical motion or incident to changing caloric conditions so that the elimination of necessity for the use of chemical or mechanical action is to be considered as including the elimination of the necessity for the use of heat or varying degrees thereof.

EDIT: I just noticed the "North" arrow on the diagram.

Besides the need to point north and use the earth field as one of the components for NMR, he also used adjustable mercury arc rectifiers with solenoid arc interruption which could be tuned to provide the required frequency as part of the current output loop.

A possible example of doing the best you can with the technology available in that time.

Sorry for the derailment, hope some can see the similarities.

Back to the matter at hand: building a tabletop BASER.

verpies,

What gain medium are you contemplating?

Would a form of ferrite in the shape of a ring work without great difficulty?

I ask because I certainly have prior experiments that may be worthy of modification.

I tried brass, however I would expect zinc-ferrites to work too.
There is a man that understands nuclear structure like no other and I'd like to have his calculations to be able to answer your question with certainty: which Gain Medium is the easiest/best.

Take a look at the level of detail in his diagrams of the nucleus here (http://milesmathis.com/argon.avi).
His model gives me so much more info how to spin-up the nucleus at the appropriate angle to destabilize those inner neutrons, than the simplistic wavefunction or ball-model of legacy science. Compare here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nucleus_drawing.svg).

How does a "gain medium" increase energy?

Strictly, the Gain Medium doesn't create any energy nor does it increase the energy of the BASER taken as a whole.
It only releases it in the form of very fast electrons.

This release happens at the expense of neutrons that become converted into protons and fast free electrons +*.
As a result of this, the nucleus loses mass and it is this difference in mass that becomes converted to energy and carried off by the fast electrons.

When all of the eligible neutrons in the Gain Medium become converted, then the Gain Medium becomes lighter and used up... but that still represents a lot of energy (1kg of copper can release an energy equivalent to burning ~22000L of gasoline).

P.S.
Neutrons are heavier than Protons.
* For the sake of simplicity of explanation, I am ignoring the release of positrons and neutrinos (or antineutrinos).

Right now trying my best to wade through the papers of Miles Mathis and Stephen Rado. (thanks to verpies and grumpy).

As time permits, I enjoy reading this stuff, however IMHO, new viewpoints should result in new inventions as ultimate proof of their viability, lest they be just more philosophical argumentation.

We shall see.

Verpies: I have some large aluminum discs 16 to 24 inches dia, and a few small brass plates.

I was wondering if spray painting Zn galvanizing onto an insulating disc would be a good idea.

For the single plate unit, I'm thinking that oscillating bucking radial fields against a slowly changing orthogonal static field might be an easy way to test theory. (or vice versa)

Any thought?

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.19, 15:18:40
Right now trying my best to wade through the papers of Miles Mathis and Stephen Rado. (thanks to verpies and grumpy).

This guy can really think, I mean really think independently of the legacy encumbrances.
However I am not his disciple. I just think he is less wrong than other physicists.
IMO he goes too far with his "charge field" and most importantly he assumes that photons, electrons and nucleons are "things" moving in space and he does not go deep enough into analyzing what is spining in those "ponderable things".
IMO his space time dimensions are off by one, because he assumes 1D time just like legacy science.

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.19, 15:18:40
As time permits, I enjoy reading this stuff, however IMHO, new viewpoints should result in new inventions as ultimate proof of their viability, lest they be just more philosophical argumentation.  We shall see.

As far as physics goes - you are correct.
However his mathematical and geometrical musings are beyond this burden of proof.

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.19, 15:18:40
I have some large aluminum discs 16 to 24 inches dia, and a few small brass plates.

I have some theoretical indications that Aluminum might be suitable because its inner neutrons can be exposed easily by NMR.  Neutrons not shielded by protons decay spontaneously.
Keep the disk radius as large as possible because that decreases the frequency requirements.  Lower frequency minimizes the skin effect in conductive aluminum and the low-frequency field penetrates deeper into the disk (affecting more of its volume).  Aluminum presents one disadvantage, though. Namely the beta particles ejected from aluminum are very energetic (fast) and that means that they require a stronger static magnetic field to keep them within the boundary of the disk (faster particles curve less in magnetic fields).

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.19, 15:18:40
For the single plate unit, I'm thinking that oscillating bucking radial fields against a slowly changing orthogonal static field might be an easy way to test theory. (or vice versa)
Any thought?

Yes, oscillating opposing radial fields (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1541.0;attach=10468) perpendicular to a static field (or a slowly changing field) is a viable technique.
You have to tailor the geometry of your static (or LF) magnetic field so that it is perpendicular to the plane of the disk and its flux density increases further away from the center of the disk.

Ideally, the magnetic field should be perpendicular to the plane of the disk, inside the disk (red), yet the same field should be parallel to the plane of the disk, immediately outside of the disk.  This is tricky, because magnetic field lines do not "like" to make right-angle turns.  But it is possible to approach it - take a look at the spool simulation (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1541.0;attach=10480).

Use any means to approach that field geometry (even with ferromagnetic flux guides [gray] ) or your beta particles will escape the Gain Medium disk (red).

Quote from: ION on 2013.06.19, 15:18:40
Right now trying my best to wade through the papers of Miles Mathis and Stephen Rado. (thanks to verpies and grumpy).

A lot of what Rado theorizes was previously shown by the work of Francis Nipher.

Building for dense field lines at the perimeter is not impossible but not what is normally seen.

That alone, could be an interesting endeavor.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.06.18, 14:14:03
"devoid of any properties besides three-dimensionality of distance and direction.  The consequence of the above is that space cannot be twisted, bent, curved as in GR, except for an illusion of interaction between expected and actual reference systems.
This also means the IMO aether does not exist and neither do black holes as singularities."

Magnetic and electric fields reside in this space that you say has no properties.  

Vacuum has permittivity and permeability.  Aren't those properties of "space"?

Tesla concluded that space consisted of  charges in a dielectric.

Paul Dirac reached a similar conclusion, termed the Dirac Sea, of charged virtual particles.

Harold Aspden proved that "space" has an inherent rotational factor (see the "Aspden Effect").

When a person dives into a pool of water he is absorbed. When I person smacks the water IT is absorbed. Sure doesn't feel like it though. So the frame of reference must change to accommodate the energy transfer. Aether is real if you strike the surrounding space with zeal and then listen correctly.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=79.msg32312#msg32312 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=79.msg32312#msg32312)
Rado specifies on page 22:

QuoteWe may still use the word Ether, but only to express some physical properties of space!

Quote from: giantkiller on 2013.06.28, 01:58:56
When a person dives into a pool of water he is absorbed. When I person smacks the water IT is absorbed. Sure doesn't feel like it though. So the frame of reference must change to accommodate the energy transfer. Aether is real if you strike the surrounding space with zeal and then listen correctly.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=79.msg32312#msg32312 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=79.msg32312#msg32312)
Rado specifies on page 22:

Nothing exists without a constant flow of aether into it.  So, the flow of aether is already there, for free, you just have to manipulate it.

How do you expect to manipulate something that is just an idea.
Aether does not even have its properties defined and those who have tried to define them, found them to be contradictory.

When Michelson and Morley came along and did their famous experiment to measure Earth's motion through that Aether, they found no indication of it. 
Others have calculated that it must possess contradictory properties such as that it must be a fluid in order to fill space, but one that was millions of times more rigid than steel in order to support the high frequencies of light waves. Aether also had to be massless and without viscosity, otherwise it would visibly affect the orbits of planets, additionally it appeared that it had to be completely transparent, non-dispersive, incompressible, and continuous at a very small scale.  Eventually the whole idea of Aether was scrapped as unnecessary.
Read this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminiferous_aether) for a fascinating history of the Aether concept.

Quote from: verpies on 2013.07.02, 11:52:15
How do you expect to manipulate something that is just an idea.
Aether does not even have its properties defined and those who have tried to define them, found them to be contradictory.

When Michelson and Morley came along and did their famous experiment to measure Earth's motion through that Aether, they found no indication of it.  
Others have calculated that it must possess contradictory properties such as that it must be a fluid in order to fill space, but one that was millions of times more rigid than steel in order to support the high frequencies of light waves. Aether also had to be massless and without viscosity, otherwise it would visibly affect the orbits of planets, additionally it appeared that it had to be completely transparent, non-dispersive, incompressible, and continuous at a very small scale.  Eventually the whole idea of Aether was scrapped as unnecessary.
Read this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminiferous_aether) for a fascinating history of the Aether concept.

Seek out better sources of information before building the foundation of your beliefs upon erroneous ones.

I did.
Nowhere, properties of Aether were even defined.

Here is a newer video from Akula?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C4yEAm2ue4

Notice no ground wires are used or are visible. The aluminum? tube is clearly seen at the top of the coil stack.

We can argue till the cows come home regarding the existence or not of the aether. This has been going on over several hundred of years.

Not productive IMHO. A practical and useful invention is better than philosophical excursion.

Quote from: verpies on 2013.07.02, 13:48:13
I did.
Nowhere, properties of Aether were even defined.

Look up the properties of a vacuum.

Quote from: ION on 2013.07.02, 13:50:47
Here is a newer video from Akula?

That's interesting.  Notice he is careful when he touches the switch.  The battery might be priming as well as powering the circuits that keep it working.  Has he posted any sort of schematic for this device?

Here are the latest schematics that I could find.

At first glance it seems to be an ordinary inverter. Upon closer inspection, the primary wires to the battery and the battery itself would need to supply a rather high amperage at 12 volts to carry that secondary load. Then we see the battery disconnected. This could lead to at least 3 conclusions we can discuss later, but first, the interesting circuit

In the first schematic we see a ramp generator producing a linearly varying magnetic field in Tr2. The ramp amplitude is sensed (at the secondary) to reset the ramp generator. This varying magnetic bias is applied to one of the the tower coil windings. This insures that the correct NMR diameter for the gain medium will be hit.

Notice the ramp generator is synced to the HF chip driver. I'm guessing for each HF pulse, there is a corresponding ramp as there are no dividers shown.

Tr3 is an ordinary push pull driver of high frequency exciting the primary of the tower coil. Voltage is stabilized by R1 feedback to the HF driver chip.

Notice (hand drawn schematic) that he has some pulsating DC fed into the coil from the bridge instead of a separate generator for varying the magnetic bias.

Resonance of C3  provides the 90 degree phase shift required* between the two signals.

There is more to analyze, but with the inclusion of the metal gain medium, this has some earmarks of NMR*. To my eye, the metal tube has the dull appearance of a zinc coating rather than a shiny aluminum appearance.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.07.02, 15:00:09
Look up the properties of a vacuum.

I did study them extensively.
All of those properties were measured with matter, including permittivity and permeability.

Quote from: verpies on 2013.07.02, 17:23:21
I did study them extensively.
All of those properties were measured with matter, including permittivity and permeability.

Sorry Bro!  I can't help you.

Quote from: ION on 2013.07.02, 17:21:06
Here are the latest schematics that I could find.

I notice a ground connection in the hand-drawn schematic.

Quote from: ION on 2013.07.02, 17:21:06
At first glance it seems to be an ordinary inverter. Upon closer inspection, the primary wires to the battery and the battery itself would need to supply a rather high amperage at 12 volts to carry that secondary load. Then we see the battery disconnected. This could lead to at least 3 conclusions we can discuss later, but first, the interesting circuit.

One of the conclusions is that a power gain happens somewhere along the way.

Quote from: ION on 2013.07.02, 17:21:06
In the first schematic we see a ramp generator producing a linearly varying magnetic field in Tr2. The ramp amplitude is sensed (at the secondary) to reset the ramp generator. This varying magnetic bias is applied to one of the the tower coil windings. This ensures that the correct NMR diameter for the gain medium will be hit.

As the LF ramp increases linearly from zero to max, the Larmor frequency (HF) necessary to precess the nuclei, also increases linearly.  If the HF is held constant, then the LF ramp will eventually create a correct magnetic field for the HF to become the Larmor frequency of the gain medium.
At the same time, the cyclotron diameter decreases as the LF ramp increases from zero to max.

Quote from: ION on 2013.07.02, 17:21:06
Notice the ramp generator is synced to the HF chip driver. I'm guessing for each HF pulse, there is a corresponding ramp as there are no dividers shown.

This will establish a phase lock between the LF ramp and HF oscillator. The HF burst becomes the Larmor frequency for the gain medium, only at a certain phase shift with the LF ramp waveform.  This shift should be adjustable.

Quote from: ION on 2013.07.02, 17:21:06
Resonance of C3  provides the 90 degree phase shift required* between the two signals.

Not necessarily 90º phase shift.  
90º shift is only required for creating rotating magnetic fields.

Quote from: ION on 2013.07.02, 17:21:06
Notice (hand drawn schematic) that he has some pulsating DC fed into the coil from the bridge instead of a separate generator for varying the magnetic bias.

I like to keep the magnetic bias constant and sweep the HF according to a ramp FM envelope.
However, the magnetic bias does not have to be constant.  It can be variable and the HF can be fixed. This is an inferior method because it leads to the undesirable and usual Lenz/Faraday transformer action, between the LF primary and other windings.
In the latter case, the bias winding should be supplied by some form of DC+AC (e.g. trapezoidal ramp) or only by AC combined with permanent magnet "DC" bias.
It is wasteful to vary the magnetic bias of the gain medium from 0 to max, if it is known that the correct bias for the HF to become the Larmor frequency is much above zero.

Quote from: ION on 2013.07.02, 17:21:06
To my eye, the metal tube has the dull appearance of a zinc coating rather than a shiny aluminum appearance.

Many materials with non-zero nuclear spins are suitable. Copper, Iron and Zinc are one of them.  Brass is an alloy of Copper and Zinc.
Iron and Zinc is require 20x more precise Larmor frequency match than Copper, thus Fe and Zn are more finicky as gain media.

Sorry Gents, but I just don't believe the whole NMR explanation, at all.  Especially, that NMR can in any way cause a power increase, hence add energy. 

I think there are a few interesting similarities, but nothing more than that.

In that last video, the large tube is white at the bottom and shiny at the top.  Looks like the white and shiny are different diameters too.  Maybe aluminum tube inisde a plastic tube and a cap at the bottom to mount it to the board.

The other coil looks like he used a pipe reduce, the weldable type.  Maybe it's an iron one and therefore just a homemade toroidal transformer.  Maybe this is all he had that was "round and iron".

Loooking down the tube about 2/3 through the video, there is a smaller tube inside, and the shiny top looks like tape rather than metal.  Yep, that tube looks like a piece of white plastic drain pipe.

Ah-ha - right near the end, you can see the tube inside is a green coil on a white core, looks like a plastic core again.

Looks like another video uploaded 11 hours ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSsXyLHwLro

From G:

QuoteSorry Gents, but I just don't believe the whole NMR explanation, at all.  Especially, that NMR can in any way cause a power increase, hence add energy. 

Not NMR alone but beta decay induced by NMR. There are no other viable and laboratory provable explanations for a power gain outside of fraud. Please read the Reiss patent, it has all you need to know about the TPU and it's various possible modes of operation.

QuoteThe other coil looks like he used a pipe reduce, the weldable type.  Maybe it's an iron one and therefore just a homemade toroidal transformer.  Maybe this is all he had that was "round and iron".

Those who have been immersed in this know that it is a ferrite yoke core from a monitor or TV. No need to guess here.

Regarding the video you posted, it seems unrelated, as he seems to be playing with single wire energy transmission, but I don't understand the language so can't comment further.

Verpies : thanks for expanding / correcting some of my observations. I notice also the variable inductor on the output of the ramp generator may be used to tune the ramp amplitude input to the magnetic bias coil.

verpies said:

QuoteIt is wasteful to vary the magnetic bias of the gain medium from 0 to max, if it is known that the correct bias for the HF to become the Larmor frequency is much above zero.

I agree and wanted to mention that also. I would have opted for zero and span adjustments for the ramp that can include what is called "zero suppression", so that a better bias arrangement could be obtained. It appears there is a span adjustment for the ramp coil current (L2) and a span adjustment for the ramp generator L1, but no pre-bias to the tower coil. This would not be hard to add and would allow more precision in hitting the target bias with the ramp.

Note that the return end of the tower bias coil is unconnected. I think this was possibly an error and should go back to the ramp generator ground else the only current that would flow would be from capacitive coupling.

We see that a two common mode chokes isolate the ramp generator and output from the inverter, additionally L3 is used for isolation of the HF drive circuit, so the circuit is seemingly well protected from circulating currents due to capacitive coupling, hence the need to ground the bias coil to the ramp generator, which is not shown.

Verpies: have you run the numbers with your diameter formula for the materials mentioned? It would be good to have an Excel spreadsheet calculator for this.

Grumpy, Tinman, Verpies: How about a separate thread for aether / no aether discussion as this is age old argument and best covered in the theoretical beliefs section of the forum. This thread I started strictly to discuss the TK type replications.

Quote from: ION on 2013.07.03, 14:05:56


Grumpy, Tinman, Verpies: How about a separate thread for aether / no aether discussion as this is age old argument and best covered in the theoretical beliefs section of the forum. This thread I started strictly to discuss the TK type replications.

No Problem Ion-comment removed.

Quote from: ION on 2013.07.03, 11:46:09
From G:

Not NMR alone but beta decay induced by NMR. There are no other viable and laboratory provable explanations for a power gain outside of fraud. Please read the Reiss patent, it has all you need to know about the TPU and it's various possible modes of operation.

If the source is beta decay, by any means, why are the results so different than current beta powered devices?  I.E. low current and high voltage.

Is it confirmed that there is no earth ground at all?  and is anyone familiar with the video and schematic to make a quick functional diagram?

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.07.03, 14:37:10
If the source is beta decay, by any means, why are the results so different than current beta powered devices?  I.E. low current and high voltage.

Because current Betavoltaic devices:
1) do not use artificial stimulation of beta decay.
2) do not magnetically confine the products of beta decay inside a gain medium
3) do not generate secondary and directionalized coherent decay events.
4) do not use inductive coupling of the resulting beta current.

...current devices just use the electrostatic energy of charge separation, when fast electrons leave the decaying medium and electrically charge remote objects across non-conductive barriers (including vacuum and air)

P.S.
In the BASER type of devices, fast electrons escaping the gain medium are not utilized - actually they become a nuisance (if not disposed of), because the charge that they carry, causes HV potentials to build up between the gain medium and other components.  (bad for MOSFET and IGBT gates).

Quote from: ION on 2013.07.03, 14:05:56
Note that the return end of the tower bias coil is unconnected. I think this was possibly an error and should go back to the ramp generator ground else the only current that would flow would be from capacitive coupling.

When I see an unconnected coil terminal, I immediately think:  an error or a reflection causing standing waves.

Quote from: ION on 2013.07.03, 14:05:56
We see that a two common mode chokes isolate the ramp generator and output from the inverter, additionally L3 is used for isolation of the HF drive circuit, so the circuit is seemingly well protected from circulating currents due to capacitive coupling, hence the need to ground the bias coil to the ramp generator, which is not shown.

Common mode chokes are an effective method to smooth out strong pulses or surges.  I think I spotted such configuration on TPU photos, too.

Quote from: ION on 2013.07.03, 14:05:56
Verpies: have you run the numbers with your diameter formula for the materials mentioned? It would be good to have an Excel spreadsheet calculator for this.

Yes, I have.  Actually I have an Excel spreadsheet for this (not attached).
It needs beta decay energies to calculate the velocity of the ejected electrons.

My list of those decay energies has some errors in it and needs updating (see attachment - this list can be copied and pasted into Excel directly)

Quote from: ION on 2013.07.03, 14:05:56
Grumpy, Tinman, Verpies: How about a separate thread for aether / no aether discussion as this is age old argument and best covered in the theoretical beliefs section of the forum. This thread I started strictly to discuss the TK type replications.

I have no desire to discuss this, either.  I just don't want my silence to be interpreted as an agreement with the notion that space is a container filled with a magical fluid, in which we swim.

Quote from: ION on Today at 15:05:56

QuoteGrumpy, Tinman, Verpies: How about a separate thread for aether / no aether discussion as this is age old argument and best covered in the theoretical beliefs section of the forum. This thread I started strictly to discuss the TK type replications.

From Verpies

QuoteI have no desire to discuss this, either.  I just don't want my silence to be interpreted as an agreement with the notion that space is a container filled with a magical fluid, in which we swim.

My silence on the subject is because I want to focus my energy on ideas that can yield results. If someone can show me a definitive experiment regarding the proof of an aether that I can perform with simple equipment, I can be interested. Other than that it won't be of any use to me or change the direction this thread needs to go, and is best dealt with in appropriate threads referencing the subject.

Thanks for the attachment.

Quote from: verpies on 2013.07.03, 16:18:22
Because current Betavoltaic devices:
1) do not use artificial stimulation of beta decay.
2) do not magnetically confine the products of beta decay inside a gain medium
3) do not generate secondary and directionalized coherent decay events.
4) do not use inductive coupling of the resulting beta current.

...current devices just use the electrostatic energy of charge separation, when fast electrons leave the decaying medium and electrically charge remote objects across non-conductive barriers (including vacuum and air)

P.S.
In the BASER type of devices, fast electrons escaping the gain medium are not utilized - actually they become a nuisance (if not disposed of), because the charge that they carry, causes HV potentials to build up between the gain medium and other components.  (bad for MOSFET and IGBT gates).

Is there a verifiable, working electrical generator that uses the beta decay in the method that you are explaining?

ION
This You tube link seems gone


ION
POST 122

Re: TK Replicates
« Reply #122 on: 2013-07-02, 14:50:47   

Here is a newer video from Akula?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C4yEAm2ue4

Notice no ground wires are used or are visible. The aluminum? tube is clearly seen at the top of the coil stack.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

?
Thx
Chet

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.07.03, 23:17:04
Is there a verifiable, working electrical generator that uses the beta decay in the method that you are explaining?

If Kapanadze's devices as well as the TPU and Colman, Reiss-Howard, Dally's, Akula's, Tiger's, Michael Meyer's, SR193's, STAAAR Yoke devices etc... are not fakes, then they could be an evidence of devices working according to this principle.

I don't think any of them are verifiable unless you build them yourself.

Quote from: ramset on 2013.07.11, 13:55:20
ION
This You tube link seems gone


ION
POST 122

Re: TK Replicates
« Reply #122 on: 2013-07-02, 14:50:47   

Here is a newer video from Akula?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C4yEAm2ue4

Notice no ground wires are used or are visible. The aluminum? tube is clearly seen at the top of the coil stack.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

?
Thx
Chet

The video has apparently been removed by the user. Luckily there are copies floating around that we can reference.

Here's the video passed from ION

Is there a verifiable, working electrical generator that uses the beta decay in the method that you are explaining?

Quote from: verpies on 2013.07.11, 14:07:24
If Kapanadze's devices as well as the TPU and Colman, Reiss-Howard, Dally's, Akula's, Tiger's, Michael Meyer's, SR193's, STAAAR Yoke devices etc... are not fakes, then they could be an evidence of devices working according to this principle.

I don't think any of them are verifiable unless you build them yourself.

So, NO, there are not any verifiable, working electrical generators that use the beta decay method that you are explaining.

By the same token there are not any verifiable, working free electric energy generators, that use any operating principle ;)

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.07.11, 18:26:33
Is there a verifiable, working electrical generator that uses the beta decay in the method that you are explaining?

So, NO, there are not any verifiable, working electrical generators that use the beta decay method that you are explaining.

For that matter there are no presently verifiable OU devices anywhere that we know of, not SM, Spherics or the rest of the so called OU devices that have gobbled up countless hours of our time and are plastered all over youtube.

If we are to continue without any verifiable proof, we have to start using good common sense to weed out the garbage and try to connect the dots to a workable hypothesis.

Then perhaps we can develop a simple, small, proof of concept to be tested and verified by all here and later developed into a workable large scale device.

This thread is investigative only and makes no claims of veracity for the devices presented.

(verpies: I was writing while you posted so ditto your thoughts)

The devices patented by Energia Celeste are fairly well-documented in their patent.

If the effect they describe is real, can you tell if this effect is utilized in the TK-type devices?

I never tried the microprocessor approach, but I have verified that HV pulses do indeed make the magnetic field much stronger.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.07.11, 20:11:12
The devices patented by Energia Celeste are fairly well-documented in their patent.

That is an interesting patent.
Its simplest version uses a bifilar coil wrapped around a cylindrical magnet.  The matter comprising the winding or the magnet, can be the gain medium.
What's really interesting is the excitation by two phase-shifted SS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_Spectrum) PAM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-amplitude_modulation) sequences of radically different amplitudes.

IMO those phase-shifted sequences resemble spin echo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_echo) sequences.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.07.11, 20:11:12
If the effect they describe is real, can you tell if this effect is utilized in the TK-type devices?

Maybe. The construction details of those devices are too obscured to be sure.
AFAIR, the Dally device (dubbed as Kapanadze's cousin) used short nanosecond pulses at low repetition frequency, but it did not use two phase-shifted sequences of different amplitudes, so it was only slightly similar.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.07.11, 20:11:12
I never tried the microprocessor approach, but I have verified that HV pulses do indeed make the magnetic field much stronger.

Do you mean the magnetic flux density level or its amplitude ?
Anyway, how did you detect the level or the amplitude of the magnetic field ?

Quote from: verpies on 2013.07.11, 22:50:55
Do you mean the magnetic flux density level or its amplitude ?

The flux density, I believe.  The effect is so profound, I'm sure it could be developed into a working device.

With higher voltage you don't have to use two that are phase-shifted.  I used 2kv.  I could try 10kv if I had a way to shield myself from anything unexpected.

According to conventional science, the voltage applied to this winding alone, should not affect the magnetic flux density level appearing at the poles of the magnet !!!

However, small currents in this winding should have a small effect on the flux density at the magnet, but its magnitude differential should not be great for low currents - according to conventional science (Ampere, Maxwell and Biot-Savart laws).

If these experimental results show dramatic increase in the magnetic flux density level - then it is an anomaly according to conventional theories and should be investigated further.  Experimental anomalies often are an indication of theoretical deficiencies (...or bad measurements).

For example, this guy (http://milesmathis.com/per4.pdf) attacks the deficiencies of conventional science and discusses the atomic processes taking place in permanent magnets.

2004 video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r99g4mjEvTE

green box video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Goq76CQapyI

In my opinion TK uses a weird effect caused by the cheap clampmeter,he incorporates
this in hes show,
the purpose is to create the illusion its a Tesla invention,
I have a clampmeter that,is made by the same company as the one TK used.
Replications are made on the assumption its a Tesla invention,
what is happening is  Russian builders ,build either fake replications or
build replications built on an interpretation of the TK device based on only one aspect,
so it can never work.Whats going on in overunity.com is members are building replications of
replications
that were never shown to ever work(self loop) or replications of fakes,truly madness :D,but funny ;D.
In my opinion TK hides hes device by creating a Tesla interface consisting of coils,spark gap and a ground,this
does nothing but create the illusion its a Tesla invention to remove the focus from TK and transfer it to Tesla.
All TK's active devices are hidden in this way ,except the aquarium 2 video,its in plain sight,however it goes against
conventional electronics theory and is impossible,in the view of the giant brains that gave up wearing hats a long time ago C.C, its a fake :o.
The 2004 video shows the can where he hides the hv generator and active device,he puts the guts
in the green box video device.In the green box video it is shown that they couldn't take ac voltage readings across the lamps,
and I found it strange that they could take high current readings from a ground.I made
the circuit istransformer,I subbed the active device with a isolation transformer.The closed loop
drawing shows is a simplified drawing,shows how the active device is hidden,in all devices the active device is hidden to make
sure no one can figure out how to build it.In the istransformer drawing L1 induces pulses into L2
this mixes with the 60 hz ac,it causes a false current to show on the ground,it also causes the ac voltages to cycle and are unreadable.
in a small video I made I turn off the ac power,however the current reading is solid,its not pulsing,reads the current when the power is switched on.
It is very easy to make a convincing video with either  hidden wires or todays very powerful
batteries not so easy,in the tpu time 1997.The point of this investigation is to show that TK hides the active device, in hiding it ,TK creates
other effects related to ordinary effects, it is very hard to replicate if the active device is hidden and you have nothing as a starting point.
In my opinion all TK's devices operate at line frequency with a possible exception of the transparent box video,around 400hz,all fakes operate at high frequencies.
When your viewing the 2004 video check out the hi tech work shop of TK,remember it when you see a
replication where the person has advanced test equipment and claims he did it or its  NMR or atomic powered,use some common sense please O0.

Why so many words to state that the construction details of TK's devices are obfuscated and their measurements are not credible or non-existent ?
Also, the Tesla misdirection is already apparent in all of TK's psychomanipulative speeches.

Quote from: verpies on 2013.07.11, 23:14:09
According to conventional science, the voltage applied to this winding alone, should not affect the magnetic flux density level appearing at the poles of the magnet !!!

However, small currents in this winding should have a small effect on the flux density at the magnet, but its magnitude differential should not be great for low currents - according to conventional science (Ampere, Maxwell and Biot-Savart laws).

If these experimental results show dramatic increase in the magnetic flux density level - then it is an anomaly according to conventional theories and should be investigated further.  Experimental anomalies often are an indication of theoretical deficiencies (...or bad measurements).

For example, this guy (http://milesmathis.com/per4.pdf) attacks the deficiencies of conventional science and discusses the atomic processes taking place in permanent magnets.

yes sir!

Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2013.07.12, 09:39:33
2004 video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r99g4mjEvTE

green box video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Goq76CQapyI


In my opinion all TK's devices operate at line frequency with a possible exception of the transparent box video,around 400hz,all fakes operate at high frequencies.

Yes, all grid fed. It matters little how he chops it all up to confuse DVM's to scam his audience  :(

I noticed in the first video that cheappower2012 posted, that TK's sidekick is much older and chubbier.  Which means, those other videos with the green box, must of been taken quite a while ago.

Ist transparent box,2004 video,
then the guts of the 2004 video device was put in the green box.
In the 2004 video theres a fat bald guy in a suit
viewing the demo you see him again in one of the Turkey video's.In the Turkey video hes seen checking
the input current and output current of the big devices.In another Turkey video you see TK and hes assistant
if its a fake why did the Turks build the two devices.The mystery of the Turkey video's is, if it was real why isn't there free energy devices coming from Turkey.
My theory is TK had no intent of giving the secret to the turks or anyone, only getting money from them,he sabotaged the big devices,the turks
could'nt figure out how to make them work,then told them to goto hell.I hear rumors he got them for $100,000 and gave them nothing.

This video appears to be before the turkey video's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=wNnWSvz1KsQ




Tk is in this one Turkey video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Upyz64O8mA




the suit is in this one taking measurements,Turkey video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEEz-o85Qi8

good detective work cp2012,  that's the same guy. He must be TK's promoter or financial backer.

TK  has hes own youtube channel :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZqT2o1bypo


The last person that invested get scammed for $10,000,that was a.king21,he and a team went to
Georgia to visit TK.TK was in very bad shape healthwise,they spent money to help him.
TK made the aquarium 2 device for them,the team was going to do some tests to determine if the device was real.One test was with a IR camera,TK said no way your going to use that, that would detect how the device worked,or the active part.The teams plan was to get a licensing deal with TK to sell the device,that didn't work out.So the team returned and posted the video on youtube,they took hd pictures,somethings they didn't post,they kept that to themselves.Unfortunately they didn't measure at the plug in the aquarium 2 video,that would have  given more information.

cheappower2012, have you built a replica, that perhaps didn't work?  I might build something, of course I say that a lot, but if time permits I'll try the version shown in the video, I think it's straight forward and we have enough info about it.

Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2013.07.20, 09:44:26
TK  has hes own youtube channel :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZqT2o1bypo


The last person that invested get scammed for $10,000,that was a.king21,he and a team went to
Georgia to visit TK.TK was in very bad shape healthwise,they spent money to help him.
TK made the aquarium 2 device for them,the team was going to do some tests to determine if the device was real.One test was with a IR camera,TK said no way your going to use that, that would detect how the device worked,or the active part.The teams plan was to get a licensing deal with TK to sell the device,that didn't work out.So the team returned and posted the video on youtube,they took hd pictures,somethings they didn't post,they kept that to themselves.Unfortunately they didn't measure at the plug in the aquarium 2 video,that would have  given more information.

To build this device, TK had trouble getting a short length of coax from Turkey that he said was required.  Also, he delayed the demonstration untial after a rain storm had passed and stated that if the ground was wet, the device would adversely affect his neighbors electricity.  This was all shared by a.king.21 on overunity.com

EMdevices

You have to understand something,
TK is on the same level as SM in the area of deception.
He hides the main component in all devices.He fooled the turks
gave them nothing,the turks were HI Tech guys some I'm sure engineers
yet he fooled them.I only build things such as the setup I posted,its to extract information,information obtained was
the clampmeter TK used forms part of the illusion of ground current,he creates a Tesla interface,thats a HV source,coils
spark gap and ground,the active device is hidden.He does this to totally confuse you,you have a black box x goes in ,y comes out
no clues as to operation, nothing to build anything.The connections to the spark plugs
goes to nothing ,the spark plugs simply sit on the coil and are not connected to anything,they do nothing
but create the illusion that its related to Tesla.
The connections have been traced on overunity.com they do not go thru the coil.
my experience
from the tpu times tells me that with a limited understanding of how the device works,
it would be a waste of my time to attempt a replication.The goal is to create a theory
that explains how the TK device works,identify the unknown source of energy,understand in detail how a
conversion process is created,converting the unknown energy source into electrical energy.
I believe that the TPU and TK's device are really variations of each other,both are converters,
both work the same with certain variations.I expect that as the powers that be, begin to realize that
TK's device is real something will happen to TK.

Grumpy

What you said is correct,however TK is like SM in the ability to lie and distort the truth.
When I started to investigate TK's device I believed that there was only one SM in the world,master of deception,second only to Satan.
When I seen the two spark plugs shooting a spark between each other sitting on top of a coil, in the aquarium 2 video,I realized that TK is on the same level as SM,
and this is going to be very, very hard to figure out.Saying he can't get the coax implies ,either he needs it to make a fake or
there is a unique property of that coax to make the device work to create an illusion that its hard to duplicate.Saying the  weather effects the operation,sets limitations,to make people
think maybe its not so hot or its fake or its dangerous.All of these things are misdirection tactics,SM used some,implying that if they built
the tpu wrong it would blow up and kill them.Adding to this insanity a.king21 speaks Russian so talks to TK regularly so theres no telling what lies TK is telling him :D.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.07.20, 15:12:58
To build this device, TK had trouble getting a short length of coax from Turkey that he said was required.  Also, he delayed the demonstration untial after a rain storm had passed and stated that if the ground was wet, the device would adversely affect his neighbors electricity.  This was all shared by a.king.21 on overunity.com

The braided sheath is most likely not stripped from co-ax but supplied in tube form for shielding data cables. The attached photos show how I believe he faked the Aqua2 device using two thin 7m long high temperature PTFE insulated wires hidden in the braided sleeve. I have fully tested this with a 2KW load using a fan heater and 19/0.15 wires rated at 8A (1.35mm dia) . The braid acts as the earth conductor. I used 6mm dia tube which when flattened has a width of approx. 9mm.

Hoppy

Quote from: Hoppy on 2013.07.21, 07:56:57
The attached photos show how I believe he faked the Aqua2 device using two thin 7m long high temperature PTFE insulated wires hidden in the braided sleeve.

Wouldn't one wire inside the braid be sufficient?

Quote from: verpies on 2013.07.21, 08:59:06
Wouldn't one wire inside the braid be sufficient?

Yes, one very thin wire is even easier to hide under the crimp and considering how nervously the guy was fingering the earth rod, this is very likely how it was done!

Does anyone know what sort of electrical system they have in Georgia?  How are appliances and the grid itself grounded?


As for the earth rod in that video that a.king.21 appeared in, wasn't the concrete recently poured?  So, maybe is rained the week before and he couldn't pour the concrete. 


Maybe it really is "so simple you would laugh", just like TK said.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.07.21, 15:53:31
Does anyone know what sort of electrical system they have in Georgia?  How are appliances and the grid itself grounded?

I think its the IT system with isolated unearthed (impedance earthed) neutral.

The transformer neutral is not earthed and is theoretically unearthed but in fact is naturally earthed to stray capacities of the network cables and / or voluntarily by a high impedance of around 1,500 ohms. The electrical load frames are earthed using a protective conductor termed 'PE'.

Hoppy

Well Hoopy,First remove that hat its causing a circulation problem. ;D
You might have a case with this however,neither you nor Verpies has a clue,
why  a company in Turkey would build 2 big devices,from a poor Santa looking guy,unless its real and works. :D
You for some reason have a personal problem with
a Santa looking kind of guy in a junk workshop coming up with something a more educated person
couldn't come up with.The problem is your argument althu may have some truth ,it is not complete
,until you demo the build,you argue a half complete  argument.Also a.king21 told you from the start that they removed
the ground for a time and the device still worked,you did not believe him.A.king21 is
silly in hes beliefs
,he has a money motive,he nor hes team have a clue how the device works or to build it,
he wanted help,no reason to lie.I'm sure that a.king21 has more photos and other things he didn't post,he
thinks if you disagree with hes silly beliefs your against him and will refuse to answer questions.
This video was made by the same Turkey company,this is like with the tpu,then the company disappeared.
It shows a device much smaller if you take out all the fake things,power around 3Kw.You will notice no Tesla things,spark gap,coils or HV.
The weakness is what appears to be a ground connection,is it one wire or two,if you removed the things that
don't do anything in the aquarium 2 video it would be this size.This one can not be shown to be 100% real because of the ground connection
also it should have
been raised up by a see through support.It simply shows they were going to go into production.
The ground wire maybe a ground wire,or 2 wires feeding a limited amount of current to start things moving because it has no feedback or its a grid connection
and thats where the power comes from.Because you can not pin down TK's stuff into a definitive yes its real or no its fake, is why he has not been taken out.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvlTCi93m7U

If they are connected by two wires to the ground, like in the first video, where they bury a car radiator in the ground and pour water over it, and than tie to a water pipe as well,  then they are making an earth battery,  and the device than appears to be a simple inverted.

Quote from: EMdevices on 2013.07.22, 04:09:19

If they are connected by two wires to the ground, like in the first video, where they bury a car radiator in the ground and pour water over it, and than tie to a water pipe as well,  then they are making an earth battery,  and the device than appears to be a simple inverted.

You could be right but on the other hand, he has to demonstrate the energy coming from somewhere, so he may have considered that the ground is more believable to investors than thin air.

Hoppy

I don't recall where I read this, but somewhere, TK is supposed to have indicated that the spark gap is to bleed off the electricity so that it does not build up and discharge suddenly.   I recall something also, about TK shutting off a demonstration when the spark gap stopped firing. 

I keep thinking about the effect of hv pulses on a magnetic field (Energia Celeste), and trying to figure how he could have packaged this into his demonstration units.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2013.07.22, 18:01:39
I keep thinking about the effect of hv pulses on a magnetic field (Energia Celeste),

and I keep thinking about the effect of HV pulses on a permanent magnet (Energia Celeste)

This has probably been discused before,but this device seems very similar to what Don Smith was doing?- or is it completely different.
It always seems that most of these ! so called OU devices ! have spark gap's or arcing of some sort.

Here is a very interesting video published  May 3 2014 from a friend of Stephan Hartmann that wishes to stay anonymous for now.

The beginning shows a 15 Watt lamp being lit normally from the KAP type transformer secondary at about 15 Watts with 14.55 Watts input. Frequency around 60kHz

The second half around 3:00 is interesting when he inserts the copper bar and ferrite cores and lowers the frequency to around 20kHz. Then with just a connection to one end of the copper bar and one of the coil wires, an extra light is lit brightly without any increase in current drawn from the supply.

The frequency is too low for capacitive coupling to the bar, and the power in does not change with the additional lamp?

The circuit is about COP of 1.0 with just the one lamp, but then two lamps (added 7 Watt lamp) are brightly lit with no increase in power input?

Grumpy take note: If not faked in some way, this could be a demo of the alternate method of getting current to flow in a conductor that SM may have alluded to.

It would be interesting to use a second lamp at 15 Watts or more to get see if over unity  is possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLC7684829E98CAD74&v=j3b7jVnQYKU

Thanks for sharing.  That is very interesting.

Edit: Elihu Thomson had similar results.

Many thanks Ion for the video link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLC7684829E98CAD74&v=j3b7jVnQYKU).

Very unusual for a certainty!  This is going to require
some deep thinking to try and understand what is
taking place.

The experimenter did a magnificent job with his
layout, his explanations, and his camera work.

Quote from: Dumped on 2014.05.06, 02:52:38
Many thanks Ion for the video link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLC7684829E98CAD74&v=j3b7jVnQYKU).

Very unusual for a certainty!  This is going to require
some deep thinking to try and understand what is
taking place.

The experimenter did a magnificent job with his
layout, his explanations, and his camera work.

You are very welcome Dumped.

As I said, I usually don't get excited by such videos e.g. A transformer slightly in saturation is then loaded on the secondary with a lamp. The power is shifted from heating the core to the lamp with no increase in power input. Those kinds of things are easy to explain and fool the inexperienced.

This is very different.

That current meter does not budge when the lamp is lit or not. Usually there is some reaction, even if momentary. I like that he double checks the current with an analog meter.

Additionally the power input /  power output is too close to hide the excess. Usually these illusions have several hundred watts input to demonstrate no change in power from a much smaller load of just a few percent (e.g Thane Heins). Here we have at least a 50% increase in loading.

Very surprised that more folks don't find this one interesting enough to comment on.

BTW I fixed a couple of numbers in the original post, power input is 14.55 Watts, not 30 watts, it is even better than I thought.

Cheers, ION

I'm curious if the lamp still lights with the rod pulled out of the coils, but still connected, or without the ferrites.

How is he driving the coils?

Quote from: Grumpy on 2014.05.06, 03:57:04
I'm curious if the lamp still lights with the rod pulled out of the coils, but still connected, or without the ferrites.

How is he driving the coils?

Yes those would be interesting tests. I have no idea how he is driving the coils, maybe push pull FET's.

I'm also interested in your reference to Elihu Thompson, could you expand on that?

The third test, I can understand due to the close capacitive coupling between the windings, but it is the second test that is puzzling to me. Not enough capacitance for that kind of power coupling at 20kHz, couple of hundred pF at best.

I would like to have seen the effect on the first lamp when he connected the coils to the second lamp. Was this a clean power re-balance??

I think his next logical test would be to replace those bulbs for non inductive resistors and get some real power measurements done.

Quote from: Peterae on 2014.05.06, 07:45:21
I think his next logical test would be to replace those bulbs for non inductive resistors and get some real power measurements done.

Agreed. Hopefully he will show us both scope shots across a shunt resistor and the two lamps in the same camera shot.

Certainly interesting effect, that second bulb looks over driven  :) and could explain the use of copper foils in the other devices we have been looking at, hopefully being a friend of Stephan that he will sort out further details.

Quote from: Hoppy on 2014.05.06, 07:02:14
I would like to have seen the effect on the first lamp when he connected the coils to the second lamp. Was this a clean power re-balance??

You are right, a clean power re-balance would explain it, but I believe the first lamp is still lit to the same level when the second comes on.

Typically you would expect to see some small movement of the amp meter as the cold incandescent filament of the second lamp loads the circuit until it warms. In the video I don't see the amp meter budge at all.

(http://freenrg.info/4OUR_F/ZT-1-2.jpg)


http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/zatsarininaen.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/zatsarininaen.htm)

While it looks similar to the Zatsarinina, the solid bar in the video in question is only connected to the lamp at one end, quite different than the attached schematic.

The Zatsarinina transformer seems to be not much more than a long toroidal core with a single turn primary (copper pipe) and single turn secondary (wire through the center).

Note that the Zatsarinina has connections at both ends of the pipe, unlike the video in question which has a solid copper bar with two small holes drilled a short way into the ends.

Noting the 68 nF driving capacitance in the attached schematic, it is possible the copper bar is driven through stray capacitance, no solid connection.

Does anyone have an English translation of the attached document regarding the Zatsarinina?

Quote from: ION on 2014.05.06, 04:26:05
Yes those would be interesting tests. I have no idea how he is driving the coils, maybe push pull FET's.

I'm also interested in your reference to Elihu Thompson, could you expand on that?

The third test, I can understand due to the close capacitive coupling between the windings, but it is the second test that is puzzling to me. Not enough capacitance for that kind of power coupling at 20kHz, couple of hundred pF at best.

He describes the controller only as a "driver and diodes" in the video.  Looks like a MOSFET or BJT and two diodes with two legs and a base - full wave rectification?

Elihu Thomson was setting up a demonstration of a Rhumkorff coil for a class he was instructing and wanted to get larger sparks at the electrodes.  Keep in mind that this type of coil has a positive pulse output and a pulse rate in the kHz range.  He connected one terminal to a water pipe, then connected the other terminal to a large metal table.  This produced marvelous sparks at the electrodes, so he went to get someone to show them the marked improvement.  As he touched the metal doorknob, a long spark shocked him.  Upon investigation, he found that large sparks could be drawn from every metallic object in the room.  Thomson never explored the phenomenon further, to my knowledge.  Hertz and Tesla did. 

Anyway, I think it is only loosely related and I don't want to derail the events here.  We should find out more details from this experimenter and explore this ourselves.

Looking at the coil int he video:

All three coils appear to be double layered so they can be connected in different ways, so 6 coils in all, not counting the thin copper wires that are open.

In operation, the black coil appears to be connected as a Tesla Bifilar coil for electromagnets, parallel wound, series connected.

The output coil appears to be the longest blue coil.  I cannot tell if it is also bifilar connected.

More details would help, but this is a start.

Any suggestion for a BJT amp for this application?  This to amplify a signal generator.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2014.05.06, 16:35:36
Looking at the coil int he video:

All three coils appear to be double layered so they can be connected in different ways, so 6 coils in all, not counting the thin copper wires that are open.

In operation, the black coil appears to be connected as a Tesla Bifilar coil for electromagnets, parallel wound, series connected.

The output coil appears to be the longest blue coil.  I cannot tell if it is also bifilar connected.

More details would help, but this is a start.

Any suggestion for a BJT amp for this application?  This to amplify a signal generator.

Thanks for that analysis G.

As for a BJT amp, I would wind a small toroidal core, single layer primary, with a single layer center tapped secondary so you can drive the bases of the transistors push pull or single ended.

All would depend on your SG max output voltage to determine the turns ratio aiming for about 1 volt on the secondary to drive the bases. e.g SG has 10 volt output capability, use 10 to 1 turns ratio and drive the base through a small resistor (10 to 100 ohms). This should give a nice high current drive to the base, insuring fast turn on and turn off.

If your SG has high enough current capability, you can drive the base directly through a small resistor.

FETs would be better and easier to drive from an SG

My SG is an old Wavetek 166.

http://www.teknetelectronics.com/DataSheet/WAVETEK/WAVET_16693510.pdf

I am surprised more people are not interested in this video.

Judging by the mans presentation and his demeanor during the presentation
He does this quite often [shares his work in video format ]

this is not a nervous nilly one time share  Vid

Especially significant is his "today" comment on the intro.

Very Interesting and well done presentation.

thx
Chet

Quote from: Grumpy on 2014.05.06, 19:09:05
My SG is an old Wavetek 166.

http://www.teknetelectronics.com/DataSheet/WAVETEK/WAVET_16693510.pdf

I am surprised more people are not interested in this video.

That is a nice old Wavetek generator. it can deliver +/- 7.5 Volts into a 50 ohm load. With a 10:1 matching transformer you can drive the BJT base or bases quite nicely. With FET's you don't need the transformer, but put a 15 volt zener gate to ground and drive through a 100 ohm resistor to the generator.

We need to know the ferrite types and specifics of the wiring. Also what are the diodes used for? The rest I think we can handle.

This video device is worthy of replication, just to figure out why the extra load does not show up in the metering.

I understand capacitance coupling can cause some current to flow into the lamp, but I don't understand how so much power can be generated essentially by the proximity of the copper bar to the inner thin winding.

If the capacitive energy is always being dissipated as part of the energy budget, and then is shifted to the lamp when the lamp is connected is the only possible plausible explanation I can entertain at this time.

Quote from: ION on 2014.05.07, 14:27:05
That is a nice old Wavetek generator. it can deliver +/- 7.5 Volts into a 50 ohm load. With a 10:1 matching transformer you can drive the BJT base or bases quite nicely. With FET's you don't need the transformer, but put a 15 volt zener gate to ground and drive through a 100 ohm resistor to the generator.

We need to know the ferrite types and specifics of the wiring. Also what are the diodes used for? The rest I think we can handle.

This video device is worthy of replication, just to figure out why the extra load does not show up in the metering.

I understand capacitance coupling can cause some current to flow into the lamp, but I don't understand how so much power can be generated essentially by the proximity of the copper bar to the inner thin winding.

If the capacitive energy is always being dissipated as part of the energy budget, and then is shifted to the lamp when the lamp is connected is the only possible plausible explanation I can entertain at this time.

Yeah, I got this SG to drive logic for sequential triggering of avalanche stacks.  I use a freq counter to keep an eye on it but it very stable.  Comes in handy.

see attached: How does the transistor/MOSFET (?) and diodes appear to be connected?

I'm not worried about the type of ferrite right out of the gate.  I'm curious to see what happens without the ferrites.

Guessing that he is driving with a sine wave and fully rectifying the signal, we can surmise that the signal is always rising and falling steadily.  Always changing but not reversing.

I'm not banking on capacitive coupling, as the magnetic field of the driven coil is opposite relative to the two recieving conductors.  I.E. the inner magnetic field and outer magnetic field are opposite directions, and the conductors in these locations, driving the additional lamp, are at opposite ends of the circuit.  This fits with GF Theory.

I'd like to see a scope shot at the extra lamp.

Ion,

I agree with your posted thoughts for explanations of the first and third tests.

In addition, I must say that the analog meter used for current readings can't be expected to react, if at all, to most load changes at those pulse rate frequencies. Spring loaded devices like a D'Arsonval meter movement not only react to the amount of applied torque but also the velocity of each application.

As far as the second part.... I need to see if this could be due to coaxial capacitor (transmission line effects) possibly tied to sonic resonance of the rod or pumping charge along a conductive surface. The latter would make it related to my thought and bench experiments on toroidal capacitors.

From what I can tell, you can make current flow by squeezing the hose sequentially along the length or around the circumference. Maybe that is taking expected results beyond the small bit of capacitance to the rod.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2014.05.07, 14:50:04

Guessing that he is driving with a sine wave and fully rectifying the signal, we can surmise that the signal is always rising and falling steadily.  Always changing but not reversing.

I have experimented with this type of transformer in the past using the same core material and size as specified in the schematic posted above and found that a square wave is considerably more effective than a sine wave. If a second load conductor is inserted through the copper tube, then any load connected to this loop will steal power from the first loop, which is why I suspect that if we could have seen both of the lamps in the video, this power sharing would have been observed. IMO, this setup is well worthy of study, as my initial findings were that the power transfer is very efficient when carefully tuned by optimising power transfer by adjustment of the primary drive frequency. The Q of my setup did not appear to be very sharp, which may have been due to my copper tube being a very loose fit (tube dia 10mm & inside dia of ferrite 13mm). I have found that the optimum frequency for maximum power transfer is determined by the number of cores (less cores = higher frequency).  I do intend to further experiment using additional windings as shown in the video.

Hoppy

Why did you turn around ? You already explained what is needed ! Elihu Thomson connected his Rhumkorff coil to ground pipe and to the isolated metal tabletop. Tabletop was acting as elevated capacitance while the pipe was long good ground connection. Electricity instead of leaking to ground formed standing wave resonance with huge Q factor and spread  power into air ....

Quote from: forest on 2014.05.08, 09:20:57
Why did you turn around ? You already explained what is needed ! Elihu Thomson connected his Rhumkorff coil to ground pipe and to the isolated metal tabletop. Tabletop was acting as elevated capacitance while the pipe was long good ground connection. Electricity instead of leaking to ground formed standing wave resonance with huge Q factor and spread  power into air ....

This is only a means to vary the charge density, and does not produce a usable current. 

The effect is easy to produce with a large coil and high voltage pulses.  The sparks are exactly as described: thin, white, sometimes with a tough of blue or violet, etc.

Build documentation now presented by Stefan and friend here:

http://www.overunity.com/14630/kapanodrawback-circuit-from-a-german-friend/msg402323/#msg402323

Curious that DC applied to L3 reduces output to ZERO.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2014.05.15, 15:01:20
Curious that DC applied to L3 reduces output to ZERO.

The reason the output goes to zero when DC is applied to L3:

Applying DC from a low impedance source such as a battery or well regulated power supply is effectively the same as shorting L3 as far as high frequencies are concerned. A suitable isolating (blocking) RF choke (inductor) must be added between the source of current and the L3 winding to prevent the effective short circuit.

The effective shorted L3 soaks all the power from the primary coil and dissipates it as heat.

Quote from: ION on 2014.05.15, 15:16:05
The effective shorted L3 soaks all the power from the primary coil and dissipates it as heat.

what do you mean by "soaks all the power" ?

Quote from: Grumpy on 2014.05.15, 19:18:30
what do you mean by "soaks all the power" ?

Lets say you have a transformer operated off the mains. It has two 12 volt secondaries to which two 12 volt bulbs are attached.

If you short circuit one of the secondaries, all of the magnetic energy will go to that winding overheating it and of course it's lamp will go completely out. Meanwhile, the other lamp on the unshorted secondary will extinguish or be very dim, as the shorted winding has "soaked up" or usurped all the available magnetic energy.

There will also be excess current drawn on the primary and may blow a fuse depending on the winding resistance or alternately the transformer will cook.

Why does that effectively turn off the output of the two open windings? 

Are you saying that the shorted coil absorbs all of the current supplied by the input coil?

If primary and any secondary are tightly coupled to the core shorting a secondary lowers the impedance and inductive value in the primary.

That makes primary wire resistance a larger influence in the primary's impedance value, lowers inductive coupling to the rest of the transformer and reduces induction to all secondaries.

At the same time, since wire resistance becomes a larger factor than inductance, the primary radiates the energy as heat rather than storing it in the core for use by the secondaries.

Applying DC to any winding does almost exactly the same thing. The DC current locks the core's magnetic domains so they aren't storing energy from the primary (core saturation).

This concept is used in self-calibrating current transformer sensing circuits. A second winding in the CT has DC applied to control how sensitive the CT is to the measured AC current.

It doesn't turn-off the output of the secondaries as much as it makes the energy loss move to the primary.

Thanks WW.  That is a great explanation.

You are welcome.

With that explanation.... doesn't it make you wonder about all those OU buffs touting shorted windings as a means to OU?

Sometimes, things go a bit crazy....