thx to LancaIV at OU.com for link
here
http://www.overunity.com/14401/hydrogen-production-breakthrough/msg393946/#msg393946
--------------------------
info here
http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/03/solar-hydrogen-trends-claims-breakthrough-hydrogen-production-system-cop-400-claimed/
Principles involved are commenting on technology and actively seeking investigation by qualified 3rd parties and media
A Snip from the link [by a principle of the company]
"" SolarHydrogenTrends • 4 days ago
Dear Colleagues,
I am closely following all the discussions on multiple forums.
I really like your judgments and their proximity to understanding
the processes that occur in reality in the hydrogen reactor "Symphony
7A".
Unfortunately, according to the existing ethics in the
scientific community, the authors are not encouraged to discuss about any research
results with the media before they are published in scientific journals.
However, in order for you to understand what a great discovery
GOD gave to us all please try to find answers
in the following questions:
1. If the working substance in the reactor is water, how
come the output is almost only hydrogen ?
2. After splitting water where do molecules of oxygen
disappear?
3. What role in stunning efficiency of "Symphony
7A" plays a collective excitation of nucleons in the nuclei of atoms of oxygen?
4. Is it possible at a rate of 0.5 kW energy hour and at
operating temperature 60 degrees centigrade, to have a nuclear fission and fusion?
5 . To produce 1kg of hydrogen it is necessary to split 9
liters of water, then how or in what way in this hydrogen reactor
"Symphony 7A", it takes only 1 liter?
Sincerely,
Konstantin Balakiryan
PhD, Professor""
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thx
Chet
The oxygen can be converted into oxides (SMD) and generate energy which reduces the input power, that is one answer, but how to change that then into hydrogen which does not come from the water I will have to look into that. This answers 1 and 2.
I would presume that the "oxide" has a high Hydrogen content which has come from the consumable electrode, so we have to look at what oxides there are which have a high hydrogen content!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! any ideas anyone.
3 could be a high alternating magnetic field moving the bond angle and creating small chain link water clusters which act like capacitors in series.
4 you tell me, can it be done at 60c "Steven you come in here".
5 If we knew that we would not be here asking questions, a bit silly really.
There is a patent application and peer review you can foreget about if this is not demonstrated, the patent neither will be fruitful, the national security clause will be used for sure.
Are they following here? under another name? Peter what do you know?
regards
Mike 8)
P S. I'm waiting for an activation code on that site, seems they don't like me, or is it because it is sunday!!!
Mike
My activation code was in spam, so now accepted.
I have replied to the forum here
http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/135-Solar-Hydrogen-Trends-Inc-Claims-Breakthrough-Hydrogen-Production-System-COP-400/?postID=343#post348
we will see what response I get
regards
Mike 8)
Thanks for the heads-up comments on this claim, Centraflow and Chet. Very interesting O0
"There is a patent application and peer review you can foreget about if this is not demonstrated, the patent neither will be fruitful, the national security clause will be used for sure."
I share the concern, but perhaps the "word will get out" enough ...
I'll be studying the thread on this one. Will get back again later.
Thanks again.
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2014.03.23, 13:25:33
"There is a patent application..."
Filed in what country?
I checked the USPTO and EPO for solar hydrogen trends and the two principles and found nothing.
Paul R
That "patent application" quote was from Centraflow post #1
thx
Chet
Quote from: Chet K on 2014.03.23, 14:30:01
Paul R
That "patent application" quote was from Centraflow post #1
They claim to have an application. Where is it filed?
No Idea, it came from the LENR forum, see my link above
Regards
Mike 8)
Well this is all a little odd to say the least, and I for one am really not sure what to make of it!
On the one hand we seem to have them (Solar Hydrogen Trends Inc) claiming some super, super-dooper efficient dissociation of the water molecule...
QuoteKonstantine Balakiryan, Founder, CEO/Chief Scientist and driving force behind the seven models of the hydrogen reactor, added "With our technology, a hydrogen plant with 150 million cubic feet per day production would provide enough hydrogen to power 200 thousand homes. With only 500 watts/hour of input energy we produce 2,797 cubic feet or 79,098 liters per hour of hydrogen or 221 kWh energy equivalent – at the cost of only $1.80USD. Our hydrogen reactor technology could very well be the biggest breakthrough of our time."
...but then we seem to be having Konstantin Balakiryan - the chief scientist - posting questions about their very own process!? ???
QuoteDear Colleagues,
I am closely following all the discussions on multiple forums.
I really like your judgments and their proximity to understanding the processes that occur in reality in the hydrogen reactor "Symphony 7A".
Unfortunately, according to the existing ethics in the scientific community, the authors are not encouraged to discuss about any research results with the media before they are published in scientific journals.
However, in order for you to understand what a great discovery GOD gave to us all please try to find answers in the following questions:
1. If the working substance in the reactor is water, how come the output is almost only hydrogen ?
2. After splitting water where do molecules of oxygen disappear?
3. What role in stunning efficiency of "Symphony 7A" plays a collective excitation of nucleons in the nuclei of atoms of oxygen?
4. Is it possible at a rate of 0.5 kW energy hour and at operating temperature 60 degrees centigrade, to have a nuclear fission and fusion?
5 . To produce 1kg of hydrogen it is necessary to split 9 liters of water, then how or in what way in this hydrogen reactor "Symphony 7A", it takes only 1 liter?
Sincerely,
Konstantin Balakiryan
PhD, Professor
They also state that there are altogether a set of 16 different processes, both physical and chemical acting simultaneously on the hydrogen bonds. That's an awful lot of processing going on simultaneously! And unless we have some idea of what those processes are, then we could be theorising on what's actually happening forever and a day.
Why is the chief scientist posting on forums, asking questions about his own process? Or is this just his way of dropping a few teasing snippets to whet our appetites...or dare I say, attract funding? Nevertheless, how does he think that anyone can even attempt to answer those questions in order to understand what is happening without knowing what the 16 physical and chemical processes are?
Unless I'm missing something major here, then this altogether smells a little fishy and clearly something is seriously not right!
One thing for sure though, given that 1 litre of water weighs 1 kilogram, then they cannot be getting 1 kg of hydrogen from 1 litre of water. And it does not matter how many times they do the maths, you can't get more hydrogen out of water than there is in it in the first place. (and please no one bring up that bloke who supposedly fed 5000 people with 5 fishes and a couple of loaves of bread!).
They're also claiming that 93% hydrogen is being produced, so yes, a good question is, "what can be happening to the oxygen?". Well obviously if it's not being produced as a gas then it must be reacting at some stage during one of the 16 processes to form an oxide, (but this won't produce any excess electrons), it will simply form a new compound. But perhaps the very action of forming this new compound is one of the 16 processes that acts as a catalyst to dissociate the water molecule. Who knows, we really have nothing to go on yet, so at best can only speculate.
Rather oddly there is next to nothing on their website: http://www.solarhydrogentrends.com/
I'm also wondering where the 'Solar' part of their name comes in? That said the whole name is a little odd.
It will be interesting to see where this goes, but I've already got a 'symphony' of alarms bells going off.
And here's something really weird, the good professor seemingly spells his own name wrong. On their website it is spelled 'Konstantine', but he spells it 'Konstantin' in his posted reply?
QuoteIt will be interesting to see where this goes, but I've already got a 'symphony' of alarms bells going off.
I hear banjos too...
So we have a federally certified EPA lab hanging there reputation on this test .
all the principles are learned men and highly educated in their fields.
They are well aware of the "heresy" of the claim and as a result to prove their point even more make up a list of "powerpoint" questions
that is sometimes reffered to as "in your face marketing".
Plus responding to folks on open and public forums!
I would not pile too many stones yet.............
thx
Chet
PS
there is the possibility of a contribution from the members of this company at this forum
please keep that in mind when making comments here
Quote from: Chet K on 2014.03.23, 20:03:26
I would not pile too many stones yet...............
You've never piled any stones in your life, Chet... yet there is a whole graveyard of bogus and defunct claims!
Best not to get too excited yet, eh?
At 250lbs it's quite a heavy device for its size, and they do state that it contains internal cartridges that have to be replaced every 2 - 3 weeks. So clearly there are consumables, which probably explains where the oxygen is going.
Aluminium comes to mind as a possible consumable, as if you can somehow remove the protective oxide coating then the aluminium will react with water to form an oxide and release hydrogen. So if aluminium is used, then I would speculate that they are using some innovative process that destroys the protective oxide layer and exposes the very reactive underlying aluminium.
Whatever they are doing, I very much doubt that it is any kind of standard electrolysis.
Farrah
This info initially came OUR way via Mark Dansie ,he goes way out of his way to Check certain boxes before he releases any " News".
A level of experience and Scrutiny I have grown to appreciate.
thank you for your interest.
Re Consumables
Quote
""With only 500 watts/hour of input energy we produce 2,797 cubic feet or 79,098 liters per hour of hydrogen or 221 kWh energy equivalent – at the cost of only $1.80USD. ""
---------------------------------------------------
1.80 USD for that amount of product makes the Consumables Moot in the cost analogy
Chet
Well you know me Chet, 'Scepticism' is my middle name. ;)
That said I do always like to keep an open mind... until I find holes big enough to poke a stick through.
Quote from: Chet K on 2014.03.23, 20:03:26
So we have a federally certified EPA lab hanging there reputation on this test .
all the principles are learned men and highly educated in their fields.
I'd missed that pdf.
However it seems that all that AirKinetics do is analyse exhaust emissions. They do not hang there reputation on anything, they simply report their findings. And they measured a DC voltage of between 4 and 7 volts... but with a current of around 100 amps!!! Which now sounds more like some form of electrolysis. :-\
I sure wasn't expecting a current reading of 100 amps given that SHT claim just 500 watts per hour to produce nearly 80,000 litres of H2! That said, AirKinetics don't specify run times as it seems the object of the exercise is simply to determine what is exhausting and in what percentages.
But 5 volts x 100 amps is your 500 Watts right off, so I'm a little puzzled by that. ???
No, actually AirKinetics do specify a run time: it's a minute. The gas is measured in cubic feet per minute, and if the 100 amps at 4 -7 volts is correct how do SHT come to the conclusion that they are producing nearly 3000 cubic feet of gas in an hour for just 500 Watts? They seem to have multiplied the ACFM by 60, but not bothered doing that with the current... so whatever's that all about? ???
Anyone else find the 'SHT' abbreviation a little too convenient? :)
Farrah
yes a very unorthodox method with an extremely high quality yield.
having worked ALL my adult life freelancing for test labs I can assure you that the
lab is well aware of the claims and Claimants ,and yes reputations are quite important in this venue.
to think otherwise would be quite naive.
respectfully
Chet
Quote from: Chet K on 2014.03.23, 22:07:09
Farrah
yes a very unorthodox method with an extremely high quality yield.
having worked ALL my adult life freelancing for test labs I can assure you that the
lab is well aware of the claims and Claimants ,and yes reputations are quite important in this venue.
to think otherwise would be quite naive.
respectfully
Chet
Not really sure what you're getting at with this post Chet. Like I said, all that AirKinetics do is report their findings. Their reputation lies simply in the accuracy of their reports. They have done their part and the results are there in black and white. What the client does with the information thereafter or what the client claims is quite irrelevant.
Farrah
A test labs most important issues... Exposure to Liability and reputation.
While your "opinion" may seem to have merit at first glance,The bad press and allegations that can follow something like this would Never make the Fee worthwhile ,unless there was the utmost confidence that a fraud was not being perpetrated and complete confidence in the qualifications of the "customer".this Job would never make it to any Lab I know of.[
Their insurance companies require STRICT protocol to maintain coverage.
**The US has No Tort Reform* Liability Stifles industry at every turn,not so in th UK
How many claims from highly Educated scientists ,real scientists actually working in their fields with test reports from certified labs have you read in the last few years ?
these fellows are on the right road they are making all the right moves and seeking active investigation from qualified individuals ,as well as making themselves available to their peers for public scrutiny.
more to come.........
thx
Chet
Well, as usual Chet I think we'll have to agree to disagree here.
AirKinetics have simply analysed what's coming out the spout, that's what they do. I see no exposure to liability or reputation. I think you're reading to much into this.
Farrah
I attribute your position to the difference in the TORT laws in our countries.
In your country Tort reform has made things somewhat "Sane",In the US Liability stifles and chokes every aspect of industry, as a result the insurance [requiered] companies place Strict requirements on their exposure to Liability.
in this case, in what will be part of a published peer reviewed paper ,the additional "Legal" scrutiny adds merit to the claim.
although as you pointed out there seem to be "holes" in the logic and some "unfamiliar" test protocol [input measurement]
Hopefully further information will help explain these and other questions.
Thank you for looking and commenting
Chet
Time to email them I think.
We really need to clear this 500 watts per hour that SHT claim vs the 50 ACFM 5 volt, 100 amp current shown on the air Kinetics report.
Ok
I had a very nice chat with the project manager for the Lab.
The test utilised the Customers gauges on the DUT for data on Input power.[I did not ask for calibration info ]
I have other contacts but need to speak with the "fellows" first.
So to summarize
its all in the report .
The Device under test [DUT] applies a 500 watt load and yields [appx] 50 cu feet per minute of hydrogen at 93% purity
Thx
Chet
Ps
Yes there are some questions ,quite sure we will get answers.
Edit
I was asked to clarify a few things in this post .
I did!! O0
Thanks for looking at this Chet.
I,m a little busy at this time of the year, but looking in as much as I can.
By the way electrons can be used for power before becoming part of a chemical transformation, as in hydrogen cell and finally creating water, these reactions are very complex when metals are involved as has been explained before.
Electrons are not created or destroyed, just used twice so to say in their path to final destination, this is a very important point to think about ;)
regards
Mike 8)
Ok
I had a nice Chat with the Co-owner of the company,He has taken a VERY cautious and Savvy approach
This has been in the works for quite some time,more communications are planned.
We shall see?
thx
Chet
Not much information on the subject, everywhere is just showing the same limited information.
However, make of this what you will:
QuoteI do not have time to answer hundreds of questions.However, ignoring your question, certainly would be understood by all of you as cowardness or scientific unsoundness.
Your calculations are absolutely correct, if it only operates from concepts of gravitational and electromagnetic interactions, but the nucleons in nuclei are binding with interaction which is called in nuclear physics "strong interaction " (nuclear strong force or color force) which is equal to (7-8) MeV / nucleon.
We have managed to make these forces work for us in our hydrogen reactor "Symphony 7A".
If you promise to keep my secret than I will only reveal that secret to you.
As it is known "Strong interaction" in the nuclei, the distances between the nucleons is ~ (XX-XX) fm (femtometers), Binds them into the nuclei.
In the hydrogen reactor "Symphony 7A". due to the collective excitation of nucleons from the external electrical source ( just 0.5 Kwt / h we were able to increase the distance between nucleons to a magnitude of ~ (XX-XX), fm in strong interaction in the beginning it drops to zero and then starts to push away nucleons , causing decay of the nucleus.
As my partner Jack Aganyan likes to say I should tell myself to stop now.
Because 2-3 more words and absolutely everything will become clear to you how in the hydrogen reactor "Symphony 7A". 1liter of water is converted into 1kg of hydrogen.
P.S. Last time I was so sincere and open that was back in 1961 in the conversation with the great Niels Bohr.
Sincerely,
Konstantin Balakiryan
PhD Professor
If these people - if this company - is genuine, then the laws of physics are about to be rewritten and this invention will change the world as we know it.
Of course it could just fizzle and fade out... and go the way of Peter Davey's Sonic Boiler!!
The sceptic in me is finding it hard to accept. Lots of red flags are a-waving!
Perhaps a few addendum's to the laws will be forthcoming,
Don't let the STRESS get to you the way it must be getting thru to the Nuclei
This does sound so familiar !!
thanks for contributing .
Chet
That last statement I posted by the professor answers a lot of questions. However, it makes their claims even more remarkable and the science even more incredulous. :o
I think it becomes clear that SHT are suggesting that they are actually breaking down the nucleus of the oxygen atom. That is how and why 1 litre of water gives 1 kg of hydrogen - the oxygen is all (nearly all) transmuted into hydrogen. Sounds so simple and so plausible... if you say it very, very fast with your brain disengaged!
The trouble is, with our current understanding of science, the energy required to break down the oxygen nucleus into individual nucleons is quite staggering, this after all, would be nuclear fission... and not just any old nuclear fission! And SHT are doing it for just 500 watt per hour? ???
Nuclear fission usually only creates two new elements (binary fission), so to have an element completely broken down to individual nucleons is - as far as I know - unheard of. And let's face it, more than one fissionable reaction would be expected in the process to break down the 8 protons and 8 neutrons in the oxygen nucleus.
And you have to ask, what is becoming of the neutrons.. and hence the expected harmful radiation that is normally associated with nuclear fission.
This is now truly in the realms of science fantasy... but if somehow true, this now becomes world-changing and Noble Prize Winning stuff!
So the big question has to be: Why hasn't this made headline news?
Alarm bells always start ringing when these incredible new inventions along with incredible claims are only being banded around on forums such as these... and of course Peswiki? ???
A wee MRI [250 lb DUT] who's sole purpose is to sing a brute force 100 amp Harmony mix at low voltage to the Innocent little water molecule.
how romantic.....
its what happens after the music stops that really raises the eyebrows :o
Thanks for looking.
Chet
PS
And lest we forget how susceptible the innocent little water molecule is to Simple Brute force
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPrGxB1Kzc
Now add a 100 amp harmony or a "symphony 7A"....
and you can throw what you thought you knew about water out the window.
Just save the new Baby.................
All bets are off
The quote above by Farrah Day was an answer to this by Simon Derricutt and posted by Mark Dansie, just to keep things in perspective
Quote:-
Reference http://atom.kaeri.re.kr/ton/in... for 8-O-16 (99.762% of Oxygen) the total binding energy is about 127.6 MeV. In 1kg of water we have 55.52296789 moles, thus around 3.3436E+25 molecules, each of which has one Oxygen atom. To change that Oxygen into 16 Hydrogen atoms we thus need around 4.267E+27MeV. 1 eV is 1.602E-19J, and thus 1MeV is 1.602E-13J, so the total energy input would need to be about 6.836E+14J to change all the Oxygen into Hydrogen. That is really quite a lot of energy input to produce your kilo of Hydrogen. I haven't taken away the energy we'd recover from the combination of 2 H atoms to an H2 molecule, but that is pretty insignificant and would be lost in the decimal places I haven't written down. Burning that kilo of Hydrogen (to produce water again, but this time around 9kg of water) would produce around 121MJ (or 1.21E+8J, or 33.6kWh) or 1.77E-7 of the amount of nuclear energy needed to make that Hydrogen out of the Oxygen.
Yep, I've made a few approximations in this calculation by ignoring some of the chemical energies, but in burning the Hydrogen we end up with about 1/6000000 of the nuclear energy used to make it. Working to 4 decimal paces the calculations would look no different.
If we can control that amount of energy (translates as about 189.9MWh for a kilo of water input, with input electrical energy as around 0.5kWh) then what are we doing just making Hydrogen with it and just using the chemical energy of combustion of that Hydrogen?
You're welcome to check my back-of-the-envelope calculations.
The size to weight of the reactor is telling us that there might be one hell of a lot of shielding such as lead, SHT have made it quite clear that it is a nuclear reaction, this could only happen as such. The thing is the temperature of 60c that it runs at!!
Burning that hydrogen will need a lot of oxygen from our air to turn that hydrogen into 9kg of water (not 1kg as started with), it has been pointed out that this could become a problem, and not so clean after all!!!
regards
Mike 8)
Meanwhile, Sterling and company begin a set of H-Cat experiments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csK4wKrQLM4
It seems to have already gone very quiet on this amazing, incredible, ground-breaking, world-changing, super-douper OU claim... have you heard anything directly from them, Chet?
Have you spoken directly with anyone from the company via phone, Chet?
Are you trying to cause trouble and disrupt this thread Farrah
What's the purpose of your post?
Have you spoken to the Company via phone.
Quote from: Peterae on 2014.03.28, 11:43:58
Are you trying to cause trouble and disrupt this thread Farrah
What's the purpose of your post?
Have you spoken to the Company via phone.
Blimey, what's your problem? ???
In personal emails Chet had said he was trying to contact various people involved with this, including some scientists. I was merely asking if he'd heard anything!!
No, I haven't contacted anyone by phone - that's what Chet does. That's what Chet himself said he does. I've emailed them, but had no response.
Farrah
If your going to comment you should at least read the thread
post #24
I will not be engaging in any fist to cuffs here.
thx
Chet
PS
I have spoken with the project manager from the Lab post #22 as well as the Co Owner of the company post #24.[all very nice calls with return invites]
I have appreciated your input Although Our correspondence was thru Pm's here not Emails
My Email will be forwarded to you now
Surprisingly I can read.
You said further communications were planned... I was simply inquiring, in my own way, as to if there was anymore news from them.
I think you mean 'fisticuffs'. But both you and Peter seem to have taken my post out of context... I was not being argumentative, I was simply asking the question. What's with everyone being so sensitive?
I stand corrected, PMs not emails.
So, no more news then. Blimey that was hard work!
Farrah
your posts appear to indicate you are having a dig at Chet, at least that's the way i have been reading your post's, almost as if you have some sort of vendetta against Chet.
If Chet were to persuade the inventors on to this forum, do we need to put you on read_only?
Quote from: Peterae on 2014.03.28, 19:56:52
Farrah
your posts appear to indicate you are having a dig at Chet, at least that's the way i have been reading your post's, almost as if you have some sort of vendetta against Chet.
If Chet were to persuade the inventors on to this forum, do we need to put you on read_only?
What?! ???
I guess that depends on whether or not you want someone asking intelligent and pertinent questions or if you'd just rather have people grovelling to them.
I ask a question and you insinuate that I'm here to disrupt the thread. C'mon, what's that all about?
As it stands, and if we understand what they are implying correctly, then you do realise that the chances of this being legitimate are very, very, microscopically low don't you? Nuclear fission from 500 watts per hour... oxygen being broken down into its component nucleons... no harmful radiation... No one in their right mind would not be at least mildly sceptic.
But hey, let's just see how it pans out.
Farrah
its not what you ask its how you ask ,we all know its an"outer limits"claim.
I will not go back and forth with you here,I am doing the best I can with this and as things happen I will update.
Please don't fill this thread with the " profoundly obvious" Intelligent questions.
being a skeptic is always the easy job, examining the odd parts and seeing where
things could be "different" with an open mind.....
?
Chet
Quote from: Chet K on 2014.03.29, 09:00:34
Farrah
its not what you ask its how you ask ,we all know its an"outer limits"claim.
Well I'm not really sure you actually do appreciate just how much of an 'outer limits' claim this is. If you did then you would certainly be far more sceptical and find some room for humour in all this.
Incidentally, I ask the way I do because I would hate for anyone to think that I was taking this claim seriously given what we know... it's just my way.
QuotePlease don't fill this thread with the " profoundly obvious" Intelligent questions.
What!?
Quotebeing a skeptic is always the easy job, examining the odd parts and seeing where
things could be "different" with an open mind.....
Being sceptic is not the same as being close-minded. You could argue equally that the gullible folk that believe everything and anything they read or hear without question are close-minded, and that's far easier, because unlike most sceptics their views are not clouded by science.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'm just waiting for the evidence.
Anyway, life's too short, so I'll sit back and patiently wait for them to provide evidence to back up their claims.
Sterling has had a chat with Jack too...
http://pesn.com/2014/04/29/9602478_Solar-Hydrogen-Trends_revolutionizing-all-energy/
thx
Chet
Quote from: Chet K on 2014.04.29, 17:19:21
Sterling has had a chat with Jack too...
http://pesn.com/2014/04/29/9602478_Solar-Hydrogen-Trends_revolutionizing-all-energy/
thx
Chet
Unfortunately Chet, these guys have zero interest in allowing their "great idea" to get into the public domain.
Sure sounds to me like if they can't make (a lot of) money on this technology, it will go to the grave with them. They do sound like they would be fully willing to work with big oil so those guys could get even richer.
BUT...
If we can figure out how it works on our own...
Matt, yes Jack is all business....
However, Konstantin looks towards "legacy"
'snip"
Konstantine Balakiryan, Founder, CEO/Chief Scientist and driving force behind the seven models of the hydrogen reactor, added "With our technology, a hydrogen plant with 150 million cubic feet per day production would provide enough hydrogen to power 200 thousand homes. With only 500 watts/hour of input energy we produce 2,797 cubic feet or 79,098 liters per hour of hydrogen or 221 kWh energy equivalent – at the cost of only $1.80USD. Our hydrogen reactor technology could very well be the biggest breakthrough of our time
then this Quote
As my partner Jack Aganyan likes to say I should tell myself to stop now.
Because 2-3 more words and absolutely everything will become clear to you how in the hydrogen reactor "Symphony 7A". 1liter of water is converted into 1kg of hydrogen.
P.S. Last time I was so sincere and open that was back in 1961 in the conversation with the great Niels Bohr.
Sincerely,
Konstantin Balakiryan
PhD Professor
-----------------------------------------------
In My opinion Jack has his hands full if he believes Konstantin will sell out for silence.
I believes he considers this work his destiny as well as his Legacy..........
after all we're only 2 or 3 words away?
thx
Chet
Quote from: Matt Watts on 2014.04.30, 15:36:18
Unfortunately Chet, these guys have zero interest in allowing their "great idea" to get into the public domain.
Sure sounds to me like if they can't make (a lot of) money on this technology, it will go to the grave with them. They do sound like they would be fully willing to work with big oil so those guys could get even richer.
BUT...
If we can figure out how it works on our own...
Matt, I can visualise most of this reactor, the thing that I do not understand at the moment is the convertion of the oxygen to hydrogen! that still I can't compute even with a nuclear type reaction, of which I would think it would have to be.
Removing the oxygen in an oxidation reaction is not a problem, the problem is then converting this to hydrogen, also you need to think of the total composition of water ie, H2 and O2 quantity equating to the overall H2 claim, do we have an amount of water input? I am away at the moment and using an internet cafe, but it is giving me time to mull this over in my head. The input energy is small in relation to product so electron capture is a big part or heating would be a big problem as the energy generated needs to go somewhere ???
I think we need to look at an oxidised metal being transmuted to hydrogen, if that can be seen then the rest is easy, I will explai later when I am back home and can put pen to paper.
best regards
Mike 8)
Quote: I think we need to look at an oxidised metal being transmuted to hydrogen, if that can be seen then the rest is easy, I will explai later when I am back home and can put pen to paper.
Now your on the money Mike.
Quote from: AquaTek on 2014.05.03, 01:18:29
Quote: I think we need to look at an oxidised metal being transmuted to hydrogen, if that can be seen then the rest is easy, I will explain later when I am back home and can put pen to paper.
Now your on the money Mike.
Hi Brad,
Yes you have seen my explanation and vid O0 If we can find out what metal is being used, which is the consumable talked about, then the rest fits in with what I have explained, it also fits in with the SEM results I have, but they were not showing transmutation from oxygen to hydrogen, that is one big step, a division 8 times of the nucleus of oxygen. That alone is Nobel stuff to say the least. It is too far to be stepping stones so for me it has to be a straight division "if it is right".
Now have I been missing something in the past? maybe the frequency of the magnetic field is very important, not just as a means of water cluster linkage but also a vibrational frequency in the oxygen nucleus :-\
The list of processes given has helped a lot, the picture of the reactor not very much at the moment.
regards
Mike 8)
PS. I'm back home.
Here is the list of things
Electrolysis
Oxidation
Catalysis
Ionization
Infrasound
Sound
Ultrasound
HyperSound
Hydrodynamic Cavitation
Electromagnetic Field
Shock Wave
LENR
Now I do not know about anyone else, but sound is mentioned more than once!!!! and shock wave? what is mean't by this!!! I can go along with electrolysis, oxidation, catalysis, electromagnetic field and possible LENR, the rest is just frequencies in a mix, even cavitation is a possible result of frequencies.
I have loaded the picture of the setup "supposed" here, can anyone tell me what the big item on the left is?
Regards
Mike 8)
Solar Hydrogen Trends Inc. Chief Scientist Konstantin Balakiryan Reveals the Secrets... -- MENLO PARK, Calif., May 7, 2014 /PRNewswire-iReach/ --
MENLO PARK, Calif., May 7, 2014 /PRNewswire-iReach/ -- May 7, 2014 – Solar Hydrogen Trends, Inc. announced in March the invention of the world's first hydrogen reactor "Symphony 7A" capable of converting 1 liter of water into 1kg of hydrogen. It will be two months since people worldwide have been trying to explain the phenomenon of hydrogen reactor Symphony 7A. Following are some of the more notable comments (with responses) from forums representing views of individuals that we found most interesting. Konstantin Balakiryan, PhD, CEO, Founder and Chief Scientist, Solar Hydrogen Trends, Inc:
1. "This is a Chemical Reaction"
Professor K. Balakiryan - "I agree. In Symphony 7A, active metal alloy is involved in the oxidation reaction. However, the amount of formed oxide for a one hour period is only 2.1%. During that same time, Symphony 7A produces more than 7 kg of hydrogen and the share of that chemical reaction is only about 189 grams of hydrogen. If all the hydrogen in Symphony 7A reactor was produced by oxidation - reduction reaction, then in one hour we would spend 97.9 % of all active metal alloy and the cartridge would practically be replaced every hour. This could have become the weak point of our hydrogen reactor, however, in Symphony 7A cartridge is replaced once a week, and for the model Symphony 7AM cartridge replacement will take place once every four weeks."
2. "This is Electrolysis"
Professor K. Balakiryan - "The process in Symphony 7A is slightly similar to electrolysis, however to produce 7 kg of hydrogen in one hour with the standard electrolysis, we had to spend about 17 gallons of water. In Symphony 7A, less than 2 gallons of water were used. Thus the contribution of electrolysis is about 690 grams of hydrogen per hour. As you can see, both of these processes play just a supporting role.
3. "This is Cold Fission and Cold Fusion"
Professor K. Balakiryan – "Indeed at such low temperatures and minimum energy costs, we have low-temperature synthesis - connection (capture) with protons of free electrons and subsequent formation of hydrogen atoms (i.e., Cold Fusion). One should not forget that in hydrogen reactor Symphony 7A, before synthesis of hydrogen atoms takes place, decay of nuclei of oxygen atoms into nucleons should occur first, which under multifactorial influences are collectively excited and then begin to push each other away. They can reach critical distance where vectors of "colored forces" are rotated to 180 degrees. This means that the energy of the strong interaction which provides the stability of nucleus is now working to "push out" nucleons from the nucleus. Thus the energy required to separate the nucleus into its composing nucleons is numerically equal to the energy, used to create nucleus from separate nucleons, and therefore in accordance with the Einstein law, it should be determined by excess (mass defect):
Есon= Dm с2 = [zmp + (A - z)mn - Mn] с2
Now when the nucleons are in the free state, the neutron converts into a proton without possibility of reverse conversion to neutron, because this kind of conversion is possible only for protons in the nucleus. For us it is extremely important because with these additional free protons we are doubling production of hydrogen.
One of these protons as a given, and the other proton is a result of neutron decay (beta decay).
n--> p+e− + ve
If we consider this decay at the quark level, according to Professor B. Ishkhanov it would appear as if it passes in two stages. The first step is the conversion of d -quark to u -quark and boson W−
d--> u + W−
the second step boson W− decays , turning into an electron and antineutrino
W−--> e− + ve
Electrons produced by the decay of the neutron, which is emitted from it with great speed plays two very important roles:
1. With the collision of an atom of oxygen, this ionizes it.
2. With proton collision, this forms a hydrogen atom.Since the process of Nuclear Fission in Symphony 7A proceeds at room temperature, it can be definitely considered as a Cold Fission.
4. "This is LENR"
Professor K. Balakiryan - "We have been avoiding using this term for some time because we are seriously investigating, and treat the scientific work and the description of physical phenomena, with the utmost of respect. We never display our wishful thinking as if it were reality We can confidently state that in Symphony 7A there is a transmutation process of atoms of oxygen into hydrogen.
Judge for Yourself: The composition of the gas mass on the exit of the hydrogen reactor in one hour makes more than 7 kg of pure hydrogen. Since the working substance in the Symphony 7A is water, then its decomposition product can only be oxygen and hydrogen. There is no oxygen on exit. However, there is hydrogen which is eight times more than it should be. And where is the oxygen? There should be 6.2 kg. But there is not. Leakage of oxygen is excluded, because we know how volatile hydrogen is, and we made sure that our hydrogen reactor is hermetically sealed.
The answer is clear - "This is transmutation!"
However transmutation of oxygen atoms to hydrogen atoms (reaction) at temperatures below 80F, and with energy input of 0.5 kWh can be called "low energy nuclear reactions" (cold fusion). There are no other options.
Therefore, this is classical LENR!!!
To understand and scientifically describe all processes in the hydrogen reactor it will require efforts of hundreds of scientists and theoretical physicists and experimentalists. A team of scientists from Solar Hydrogen Trends, Inc. hopes that in the next few years, in partnership with you, esteemed members of the scientific community, we'll get the justification of physical processes in hydrogen LENR reactors Symphony 7 series.
Solar Hydrogen Trends Inc..
These are remarkable claims!
Quote
Professor K. Balakiryan - "We have been avoiding using this term for some time because we are seriously investigating, and treat the scientific work and the description of physical phenomena, with the utmost of respect. We never display our wishful thinking as if it were reality We can confidently state that in Symphony 7A there is a transmutation process of atoms of oxygen into hydrogen.
Judge for Yourself: The composition of the gas mass on the exit of the hydrogen reactor in one hour makes more than 7 kg of pure hydrogen. Since the working substance in the Symphony 7A is water, then its decomposition product can only be oxygen and hydrogen. There is no oxygen on exit. However, there is hydrogen which is eight times more than it should be. And where is the oxygen? There should be 6.2 kg. But there is not. Leakage of oxygen is excluded, because we know how volatile hydrogen is, and we made sure that our hydrogen reactor is hermetically sealed.
The answer is clear - "This is transmutation!"
However transmutation of oxygen atoms to hydrogen atoms (reaction) at temperatures below 80F, and with energy input of 0.5 kWh can be called "low energy nuclear reactions" (cold fusion). There are no other options.
Chet - do we have instructions on HOW to replicate these results? Has anyone replicated?
Steve
I am also traveling ATM [moving Motherinlaw 300 miles back To new England :D]]
I'll see what's up when I get home.
thx
Chet
These are remarkable claims!
Yes I agree Steven. As I have said before, I can see and understand certain parts, but the transmutation of oxygen to hydrogen is the part that I just can't see. If this is right then the precusion of such a find, not only in hydrogen production, is mind boggling, "talk about big bang" :D
regards
Mike 8)
Quote from: Chet K on 2014.03.22, 17:00:31
thx to LancaIV at OU.com for link
here
http://www.overunity.com/14401/hydrogen-production-breakthrough/msg393946/#msg393946
--------------------------
info here
http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/03/solar-hydrogen-trends-claims-breakthrough-hydrogen-production-system-cop-400-claimed/
Principles involved are commenting on technology and actively seeking investigation by qualified 3rd parties and media
A Snip from the link [by a principle of the company]
"" SolarHydrogenTrends • 4 days ago
Dear Colleagues,
I am closely following all the discussions on multiple forums.
I really like your judgments and their proximity to understanding
the processes that occur in reality in the hydrogen reactor "Symphony
7A".
Unfortunately, according to the existing ethics in the
scientific community, the authors are not encouraged to discuss about any research
results with the media before they are published in scientific journals.
However, in order for you to understand what a great discovery
GOD gave to us all please try to find answers
in the following questions:
1. If the working substance in the reactor is water, how
come the output is almost only hydrogen ?
2. After splitting water where do molecules of oxygen
disappear?
3. What role in stunning efficiency of "Symphony
7A" plays a collective excitation of nucleons in the nuclei of atoms of oxygen?
4. Is it possible at a rate of 0.5 kW energy hour and at
operating temperature 60 degrees centigrade, to have a nuclear fission and fusion?
5 . To produce 1kg of hydrogen it is necessary to split 9
liters of water, then how or in what way in this hydrogen reactor
"Symphony 7A", it takes only 1 liter?
Sincerely,
Konstantin Balakiryan
PhD, Professor""
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thx
Chet
This from the e-cat article:
QuoteSolar Hydrogen Trends Inc. Invents Groundbreaking 100% Carbon Free, Clean Air Hydrogen Reactor
Solar Hydrogen Trends, Inc. develops innovative breakthrough technology with the world's first hydrogen reactor for production of unlimited hydrogen; reactor uses water as main fuel and is 100% carbon free! "Endless fuel from water..."
Menlo Park, CA (PRWEB) March 05, 2014
March 5, 2014 – Menlo Park based technology firm Solar Hydrogen Trends, Inc. (http://www.solarhydrogentrends.com) today announced that it has revolutionized the world of energy production with their invention of the world's first hydrogen reactor for the production of unlimited hydrogen (patent pending). The hydrogen reactor uses water as a main fuel and is 100% carbon free....
Is there any follow-up on this device? is it for sale? does the darn thing really work?
I wonder if - a year since the OP - there is further information?
Yes I ask the same question, all seems very quiet, why?
I was quiet encouraged to start with, now can anyone say what has happened?
regards
Mike 8)
Last I spoke with Jack, SRI was in the mix and seemed to want more info than he was comfortable sharing .
since then he has had several Black box independent tests by certified labs ,however It seems he's hunting for investors/buyers
Konstantin seems more interested in a legacy for the planet then Money, however its not Konstantin's to give away.
it belongs to Jack.
they are relocating to the same town as SRI [Menlo Park California ] maybe some truly quality testing can be done ,however
the claim is sooo Bold that I doubt Jack will get what He's looking for with out full Review of the claim.
One can only Hope that Konstantin Balakiryan slips out the "Single sentence" he claims will "give it all away"....
HE truly seems torn by this drawn out effort for funding.
Oh How I would love to speak with him about his legacy........ :)
Chet K
Dansie did an update last week
http://revolution-green.com/solar-hydrogen-trends-believe-it-or-not/
Jim
yes this is one of the independent black box tests I mentioned ...had a go round with Mark D's friend Mark E
early last month on this very issue
Mr.Dansie goes on to say a consumable is really doing this .[in his opinion ] * Note Mark E has the same opinion.
Konstantin outlines exactly just what the consumable contribution is below [Making the Consumable angle MOOT]
Professor Konstantin Balakiryan stated – "In Symphony 7A, active metal alloy is involved in the oxidation reaction. However, the amount of formed oxide for a one hour period is only 2.1%. During that same time, Symphony 7A produces more than 7 kg of hydrogen, and the share of that chemical reaction is only about 189 grams of hydrogen. If all the hydrogen in Symphony 7A reactor was produced by oxidation – reduction reaction, then in one hour we would spend 97.9 % of all active metal alloy, and the cartridge would have to be replaced practically every hour. This could have become the weak point of our hydrogen reactor. However, in Symphony 7A, the cartridge is replaced once a week, and for the model Symphony 7AM, cartridge replacement will take place once every four weeks."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
of course this claim is extraordinary ...and we know what they say about extraordinary claims.
respectfully
Chet
Thanks much for this additional info. At Dansie's site, we have the response:
QuoteAs for the chemicals and chemical reactions that people claim that Solar Hydrogen Trends is employing: those are all 6th grade chemistry experiments that all of the SHT team members did in their youth (back when Armenia was still part of Soviet Union).
I'm amazed that there are people who imply that it is possible to deceive investors and the scientific community with such simplistic chemical processes. I doubt you will find any sophisticated investor that will invest in anything of this magnitude without going through proper due diligence.
Solar Hydrogen Trends has always been ready to work with investors and supports their need for due diligence while making sure that its intellectual properties are protected.
That last sentence summarizes a problem that recurs over and over again: tests are desired BUT "intellectual properties" must be "protected."
IOW, greed takes precedence over humanity, in this case -- once again. Sigh.
Yep. You have to wonder about the moral position of someone who claims such massive OU results, yet keeps the full technique secret, when there are thousands of children dying every day due to lack of clean water, decent food and basic medical care.
Does anyone know anything about the process? Nice just saying like LENR, OK, but what is the general process? No one knows so who can say anything about it besides what can be read by what you guys just produced on this thread.
Like the 2.1% oxide produced. That's 21,000 ppm. Seawater is 3.5% or 35,000 ppm but it is mostly sodium on the cation side. The 2.1% oxide if true "magnetic" oxide would be like using nano-particles to increase conductivity of the solution where the hydrogen production sites are no longer only the limited surface area of any classical plates but it would be like the plates were powderized producing a colloidal suspension while still maintaining conductivity so there are multiples and multiples more surface area sites to split the water. Add that to their converter that is also increasing the surface area you get a compounded effect. Don't know.
But then the oxygen is almost zero. Oxygen with 8 protons, 8 neutrons and 8 electrons if split up would make a good 8 hydrogen atoms of 1 proton and 1 electron, and who can quantify only left over neutrons could be adding to any pulsing they are using. So what if that same colloidal oxide is again vibrating so fast that each oxide acts like a blender cutting up anything bigger then a hydrogen atom down to size. Like an atom grinder. Maybe the surprise with oxygen is that once you crack the first proton, they all break apart.
But again, we do not know the process?
I don't get it. Anyone that will actually invest in this will be rendered obsolete within 6 months. Such discoveries cannot be commercialized like your standard business affairs and I am sure God did not bring them into this world to just make a few bucks but to change this world. I, as an Armenian myself, have understood this and this is why I devote my energies as only open source. Too damn bad man, they will soon realize that no one will invest in this and risk becoming obsolete so quickly. They are better off disclosing their process as open source and they will have all the testing they need and become pillars of a new age. If this is true, they should not worry about business. Business cannot save the world. It can only save or ruin investors. Only open source can put this into the stratosphere and the fact that it requires water as the prime agent, this is a good controlled energy method until we get our TPUs working - hehehe. But I am sure if open sourced, the world would reciprocate and give these guys a royalty per unit made without contracts. 1000 new businesses could open in months (including me) so what the hell is the problem trying to find that one deal is such near sighted stupidity. Such smart scientists and inventors often have shit for business brains when it comes to recognizing things that have no bearing on business in the first place. This is way bigger then business so the only way to make it work is with anti-business. If business says get a contracted investor, don't. If business says keep it confidential, expose it, disclose it, claim it as your idea yes, but disclose it free so now everyone in the world is your friend and not your jealous foe, because that is what will happen if you keep it in one business. You become a singular target. Bad move.
I made a few videos of hydrogen making under a microscope a little while back. One of them is here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjbGTjE0i7o
500 watts, take 125 for pulsing frequency 1, take 125 for pulsing frequency 2, take 125 for pulsing frequency 3, and take 125 for a concentrated audio frequency 1 (playing Smoke on the Water), all these together could produce some crazy effects including cavitation effects. Who knows. Just so much fun dreaming about it.
wattsup