I'm looking at this device from a basic angle and hopefully it may click things into a clear perspective.
So far one issue that stands out is the delay of the second coils pulse. A clean sine wave may help in the mix as its very easy to generate a delay that's phase locked to the input sine. If the frequency changes this delay also needs to change or the phase position will be lost.
I've worked on circuits of this nature back in the mid 80's and haven't found anyone experimenting with a variable phase delay using analog circuits. The shout box comment has brought back this memory.
Has anyone used phase in this way and found anything interesting?
It looks like nothing spectacular should occur if the same frequency is used. If there's more info on the coils than I have then it may aid a replication if an anomaly shows up.
I'm the one who need a delayed sinewave pulse. Did you found easy way to make delay intact with variable frequency sinewave ? TinselKoala suggested DDS any waveform generator but I haven't any of this.
And yes, I think it can be used to create TPU like device also.
Well actually I mean the delay BETWEEN each pulses in sinewave in relation to the wavelength.
It's basically an op amp with a capacitor across the inverting input and output. A series feed resistor is required with a gain limiter resistor to make an overall gain of unity.
The phase delay is dependent upon the potentiometers wiper position, this being your output. The pots outer connections are across the circuits input feed point and output. Your delay is then adjustable from 0 to 90 degrees dependant on the . I can recall .1uf caps and 5k6 resistors with a 10turn linear pot. The output may require an auto levelling buffer for your needs.
It was in 1985 or so last time I used this so don't quote me on the values lol.
I do have a schematic somewhere.
Szaxx,
Look in my bench at the LSR thread, I have analog circuits like you are talking about there, sine wave generator and adjustable phase separation circuit.
Yes you do have to readjust the phase circuit when changing frequencies. but I have used it many times and I can reproduce Steve Marks anomalous clamp on meter reading without being clamped on anything. But so far that's all I got.
Room
Thank you Room, it's Forest that wants the circuit.
The one I used (not found the schematic yet) had to keep a fixed phase reference over a changing frequency and it did this precisely for the task at hand. I may have opted for another circuit as I needed all 4 quadrants for the ground exclude and the discriminator. The result was a unit that no commercially available could match. Front end noise limited its performance, this being due to the search coils.
I can recall looking at a 4 quadrant multiplier but can't remember if this was years later.
I'll keep searching for the original or dig out the unit and re-draw it from the board it's on.
Here is the picture of signal I need https://sketch.io/render/sk-ba4b6a3c7a95ae2aa9c45dbdbea74222.jpeg
That image looks like what you'd obtain using a push pull configuration of a class c amplifier. The phasing circuit gives a pure sine wave delayed if overlayed on a dual trace oscilloscope.
Second try to post this.
I've found this after finding the exact book/page referenced by SM on the Earths kick re thermionic valves/tubes.
It's an interesting find and may be relevant. I'm still reading and interpreting the hidden messages. There's lots to go through and it appears the basics may have been partially disclosed.
Early days yet, I have some ideas to try eventually, so will be building coils etc. The protection from a runaway condition needs more attention just incase I hit the mark.
http://rense.com/general13/earths.htm
To szaxx
If your investigating the tpu keep in mind SM is a pathological liar,a tinker and a part time conman.
Jack Durban is an elite asshole and never talked to me during the time he was on overunity.com nevertheless
no one in here has seen the tpu nor met SM.Jack Durban did work for SM,he said of him,"he lies even when he doesn't need to".
SM told Jack Durban "I don't know how it works only that it does",my interpretation is its an accidental discovery.
A few people in here, hold SM as hero or a deity,some want a mystical explanation to the tpu.
Some members project there abilities on to SM ,a very bad mistake ,then want a HI Tech solution to the tpu.
Jack Durban did talk nasty stuff about SM on the peswiki radio show.The question is how smart is SM and how much
knowledge of electronics he has.Certainly he is not the fool that Jack Durban said on the radio,but not to the level of a few members here,
however he has incredible creativity with what he does know.Where the toroids came from,there was in the past a lot of
speculation about the toroids,some very stupid theories,a few thought they might be a commercial product.
Having seen the toroids,I know exactly where he got them from.SM had a business involving stereo's,he bought
some Hi end stereo's,in these stereo's they used Toroids as a filter choke,the stereo's had two,at the time
filter capacitors of hi value were expensive.SM replaced the toroids with new toroids he kept the defective ones,in my opinion he had no more that a few stereo's, maybe 3,or 6 defective toroids.He made 2 large tpu's one was stolen,the office one,plus a small one that powers the tv in the various video's.The toroid's are the main component that makes the tpu work,In my opinion a few other tpu's are fake.
The tpu was never perfected ,had problems an over heating problem,in my opinion SM did not know how exactly the tpu worked so
he could not make other tpu's without the defective toroids,so he sold people (investors) a dream of cornering the market on
energy,then burned them,since he could not deliver.A few effects I believe are fake such as the gyroscopic effect,no person held the small tpu to verify of a gyroscopic effect,its SM's word that it had this property.On the big tpu a few magnets embedded could easily create this effect.SM said it operated on dc with a 5k Hz hash how silly,he mixed 3 frequencies and produced a dc voltage,how ridiculous.On the effects of
vibration and heating up,I believe there real and have a bases in fact.If you apply a very high current pulse to a copper wire it will squeeze together along its length,resulting in a vibration,if you take a long wire and wind it in a coil,and pulse it 30 Hz to 50 Hz you will
feel a vibration that feels mechanical,the coil will also begin to heat up.If you use a bifular coil you can transfer energy
from the pulses by using a diode and a capacitor.Heres a link to a video, the coil is being pulsed, the hammering noise comes directly from the coil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt7DoR0qtzo
My advice is don't believe every thing SM has said he lies and he did run a con operation out of the mansion he lived in.
A few members believe he didn't run a con operation out of the mansion look at the evidence he did.
In my opinion the way the tpu works, is there has to exist an unknown form of energy missed by the physics community,not the
crap talked about on overunity sites.The toroid creates a condition to access this energy,the bifular coil acts as an accumulator,
current is generated there.Two different principles are involved,one in regard to the toroid the other in the generation of current in the coil,inductance plays no part in the generation of current in the coil.The tpu is a low tech device but because new unknown principles
are involved its an extremely hard problem to fully solve. A few members here do not want to believe that SM faked a few tpu's,because if a few are
fake then they all could be,this means they just investigated nothing,a waste of there time.You have to remember he had a limited number of toroids,so he could not produce unlimited number of
tpu's.The fakes tpu's were created to add sugar to the con and appeal to the greed of the investors.
SM could not out right sell the tpu because he didn't know how it worked only how to build it.He did trick a company
and sold the rights,the government got involved and shut it down.You have to be aware of one particular lie,if you
build it it could explode and kill you,LOL,a SM trick so no one attempts to replicate it.
Hopefully this helps you a little,I have been around since the tpu thread was started on overunity.com
Hi cheappower 2012
Been a while since we've seen you on the forum. Welcome back. Anything new in your research work?
Regards, ION
@ cheapower,
Thanks for the info, I have looked at the ou.com site and it appears there's a few posts referenced that no longer exist. Something to hide I wonder?
The technology does seem simple, that's the problem, it's too simple and many of the posts I've read seem to go way overboard with suggestions. I'm looking at the riddle presented with an air of curiosity simply searching for any commonalities. Those involved in greed don't interest me. The challenge is to replicate the units effect and that's enough to start with. Details will be distributed to a select few initially. This is for testing and reproducibility. Don't hold your breath though.
The 5KHZ 'noise' seems to be one commonality that appears on all/most units.
The angular velocity increases with a reduction in the diameters size. This one almost dictates a proportional ruling to which the velocity of 'something' has to be maintained to realise the effect.
Standard model electromagnetics may play a role in the circuitry, it appears the operational side may not follow this model.
I'm not chasing the dragon on this, I'll try to discern what failures everyone has met with over the years and not duplicate these. If I'm left with nothing at the end, then the enigma continues.
The toroidal centrepiece is interesting, one on smaller units and two on larger ones. Precision or saturation requirements remains to be solved, if at all.
In the early days of the TPU on OU.com, people left and could delete all of their posts when they deleted their account.
The "effect" that SN discovered was supposedly found while using a bifilar voicecoil speaker. He delayed the signal to one of the coils and discovered some sort of unexpected signal on his spectrum analyzer that he considered to be extra energy entering the system.
Fast-forward, and as a simple test, wrap a coil around a magnet and apply very short hv DC pulses to the coil. Put it in a box or something to protect yourself in case it explodes or the magnet flies out.
To ION
I've reached those times when you run out of ideas and have to take a break from it to refresh your mind.
The tpu I believe is simply in its most basic form a toroid and a coil,with interfacing,the interfacing is what I'm going to working on next.
Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2016.08.15, 00:54:42
To ION
I've reached those times when you run out of ideas and have to take a break from it to refresh your mind.
The tpu I believe is simply in its most basic form a toroid and a coil,with interfacing,the interfacing is what I'm going to working on next.
CP2012,
FWIW, your opinion of the importance of the toroids in the TPU prompts me to attach two papers of test results on a particular anomalous toroid core out of a batch I purchased on Ebay. I had used this core on numerous bench tests and perhaps somehow I "conditioned" the core, but all attempts to replicate the condition with other identical cores have failed. Ignore any of the suggestions of OU during certain measurements.
pm
If you think there is anything to be found in chokes, look up Ion's choke anomaly from a few years back.
Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2016.08.15, 00:54:42
To ION
I've reached those times when you run out of ideas and have to take a break from it to refresh your mind.
The tpu I believe is simply in its most basic form a toroid and a coil,with interfacing,the interfacing is what I'm going to working on next.
Hi cheappower2012
Glad to see you are still giving it thought. Even if the TPU is a complete fake, it has pushed me to learn more in the last ten years than I could have imagined.
I agree, sometimes taking a break and stepping back opens the door to new ideas.
Best of luck in your research
Regards, ION
to partzman
I don't believe the toroid used in the tpu is neither magical or unique, its application is.
Your using higher frequencies,the toroid is not used as a common mode choke,higher frequencies can create all sorts of things that can be interpreted as anomalous,think a bit more simple.
This may clear up the defective toroid of the tpu,I have two toroids,made of the same material,one is wound in a conventional way,the
other, the way the toroid in the big tpu is wound,same gauge of wire, same number of turns.
the normal one shows 19.2 mh,the one wound like the toroid in the tpu shows .014 mh.
This may put an end to anyone that thinks there used as tuned circuits.In the stereo the effect would be to cause a loud hum
due to improper filtering of the dc,thats why they got changed.From a convention view the toroid serves no purpose since a toroid
with almost no inductance ,can't do much or can it.
I've considered where the energy seemingly dissapears when a a bifilar is connected to a pulse fed at the same end with the opposite ends shorted. This gives a massively reduced inductance by nature of the magnetics therefore leaving the only reasonable assumption that the power is converted to something else. With this arrangement it's believed by others to create an 'electric' wave. If we assume this as correct then the wave will have a specific 'delta t' to which it may impart a pulse strong enough to feed a resonant circuit locally placed.
Whether this is part of the units operation or not it's a thought exercise if nothing else.
Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2016.08.13, 22:46:18
Hopefully this helps you a little,I have been around since the tpu thread was started on overunity.com
What was your username over at OU?
cheappower2012
It seems that you may have got your toroid windings out of phase in your measurement, which is showing 1371 times less inductance, therefore what you are measuring is the leakage inductance. If you have the same number of turns and the phase is correct for the split winding, you should get the same inductance as the continuous winding. Other possibility is that you have an accidental shorted turn.
I find this to be the case for any split winding toroid that I have on hand, and is one method to measure leakage inductance. The other method is to short one winding, then what you measure on the other winding will be the leakage inductance.
Two windings wound continuous around the circumference with bifilar wire will have slightly less leakage inductance than a split winding.
Granted though, there are more possibilities with the split winding than a single inductor. Note that SM uses a weak magnet to bias the core (FTPU). Some would say (including Jack Durban) he uses the magnet to operate a reed switch, but I disagree, as a reed switch is not visible in the FTPU.
The reed switch / magnet scenario does not match up with SM's use of a magnet in other videos. Granted, it could all be showmanship, but doesn't seem so (to me at least). Many opinions abound.
FWIW, I have the nearly identical meter to yours so can duplicate your findings. (looks like a Meterman 37XR-A, mine is a 37XR)
Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2016.08.15, 05:40:02
to partzman
I don't believe the toroid used in the tpu is neither magical or unique, its application is.
Your using higher frequencies,the toroid is not used as a common mode choke,higher frequencies can create all sorts of things that can be interpreted as anomalous,think a bit more simple.
This may clear up the defective toroid of the tpu,I have two toroids,made of the same material,one is wound in a conventional way,the
other, the way the toroid in the big tpu is wound,same gauge of wire, same number of turns.
the normal one shows 19.2 mh,the one wound like the toroid in the tpu shows .014 mh.
This may put an end to anyone that thinks there used as tuned circuits.In the stereo the effect would be to cause a loud hum
due to improper filtering of the dc,thats why they got changed.From a convention view the toroid serves no purpose since a toroid
with almost no inductance ,can't do much or can it.
I'm not sure of your exact winding details but it appears that your first toroid is wound with a single layer with x turns and your second toroid is wound with two windings that are x/2 each and are counter-wound and connected in a bucking mode. If this is the case, then your first toroid reflects normal inductance while the second reflects the so-called leakage inductance between your windings in the buck mode.
pm
Quote from: poynt99 on 2016.08.15, 14:30:50
What was your username over at OU?
Cheappower2012 is Marco
You guys need to, not focus too much on the toroid not being zero inductance,the created magnetic field is what is important.
The toroid was accidentally wound half way in one direction,half in the other direction.The toroid sits on an aluminum
disk,with a spring steel mount attached to the aluminum disk,the center of the toroid was potted.The aluminum
disk,and the steel spring alter the magnetic field at the bottom.The toroid can be forced free from the aluminum
and spring steel bottom.In these pictures of the big tpu's toroids,there were two big tpu's ,one got stolen from the mansion this was explained by Jack Durban,it was an attempt to figure out how it worked by stealing it and replicating it,since there are no duplication's of the tpu today
we can be certain it failed.The purpose of the center white wire is to expose it to the magnetic field running between the open ends of the toroid winding's.The left toroid facing the tpu serves no purpose in one setup the wires to the toroid winding has been cut,in the other
the connections further up show no connections.You can conclude that the right toroid connects to the start of the large bifular coil,the left would be the end of the coil.Only one toroid is needed for the tpu to work,by placing two side by side,near some capacitors,it creates a false conclusion that the two toroids in combination with the capacitors may form a tuned circuit of some sort.SM put in the white wires in the toroids,a major part of the tpu.In my opinion when a sufficient current pluse is applied to the toroid a pulse of something goes into the coil thru the white wire ,this pulse builds up to a very powerful current pulse in the bifular coil.
This is SM's real kick.
The secondary of the bifular coil in combination with a diode and a capacitor store the charge pulse,if the toroid is pulsed fast(30 to 50 Hz) a continuous current is outputted.
Evidence does seem to point to the guess that the toroids were used for pulse sharpening The FTPU needed a small magnet to bias up the core to get it close to saturation. This was not needed in the large unit as there was sufficient pulse current to saturate the core, the required pulse energy supplied by the step charging of the large yellow film capacitors (according to "Spheric").
Exactly how these sharpened high current pulses interacted with the coils is TBD.
The first TPU only had one toroid.
EDIT:
You all should really try a HV pulsed coil around/near a magnet...
Quote from: Grumpy on 2016.08.16, 15:46:03
The first TPU only had one toroid.
EDIT:
You all should really try a HV pulsed coil around/near a magnet...
Yes, the FTPU had one visible toroid.
Agreed, a HV pulsed coil will strongly interact with a magnet at a good distance.
My interest, however, is in the production of a continuous DC in a loop without rectifiers, even if the DC has a lot of hash on top. You will know you are getting very close when you can create this effect. I have not been successful in this....yet.
I believe that the electrons in the loop are kicked (accelerated progressively) way faster than normal drift velocity in a copper conductor, and that's when the "magick" begins, and why there is a "windup effect" i.e. it takes time for the accelerated electrons to find (or create) acceptable high speed preferred pathways through the conductor.
There are numerous unwanted collisions that result in the infamous "heating problem" which to me is not a problem at all, I'll take all the heat the unit can produce, especially in winter. In the summer, there are heat engines and Peltier modules and ammonia cycle refrigeration to our benefit from such a device with a "problem". C.C
Normal Faraday induction is not what we are looking for, as every forward pulse has a reverse component that prevents an acceleration in one direction. The electrons wind up sloshing back and forth rather than being pushed in one direction. So my hunch is that the TPU has nothing to do with normal Faraday induction, and this has been the dead end for many researchers.
The TPU is not an induction transformerIMHO
In a pump, we solve this problem with a one way valve, in electronics it is a rectifier, but that is on the back end of the problem after the electrons are still sloshing to and fro with no unidirectional acceleration.
We need to move the solution to the way we interact and couple to the electrons on the front end such that both edges of the pulse and both polarities of the pulse produce a rectification of electron motion.
We need to look for this method, and experiment to derive it. Smudge has been a great help in expanding our theoretical understanding of what might work, as you have with the many esoteric papers and research you have posted. Thanks for all of that.
Regards, ION
ION
Here is a patent which is assigned to LM corp: which I have not played with, but find very interesting as it talks of accelerating electrons from perminent magnets and also hints to greater power (electron beam).
Now there just might be something in what is being done here :-\ especially if the beam could be sent around a toroid or focused into a coil as is talked about.
Patent number 5,929,732 (US)
Regards
Mike 8)
PS. Note that it is a monopole that is created.
Quote from: ION on 2016.08.16, 16:23:07
Yes, the FTPU had one visible toroid.
Agreed, a HV pulsed coil will strongly interact with a magnet at a good distance.
My interest, however, is in the production of a continuous DC in a loop without rectifiers, even if the DC has a lot of hash on top. You will know you are getting very close when you can create this effect. I have not been successful in this....yet.
I believe that the electrons in the loop are kicked (accelerated progressively) way faster than normal drift velocity in a copper conductor, and that's when the "magick" begins, and why there is a "windup effect" i.e. it takes time for the accelerated electrons to find (or create) acceptable high speed preferred pathways through the conductor.
There are numerous unwanted collisions that result in the infamous "heating problem" which to me is not a problem at all, I'll take all the heat the unit can produce, especially in winter. In the summer, there are heat engines and Peltier modules and ammonia cycle refrigeration to our benefit from such a device with a "problem". C.C
Normal Faraday induction is not what we are looking for, as every forward pulse has a reverse component that prevents an acceleration in one direction. The electrons wind up sloshing back and forth rather than being pushed in one direction. So my hunch is that the TPU has nothing to do with normal Faraday induction, and this has been the dead end for many researchers. The TPU is not an induction transformerIMHO
In a pump, we solve this problem with a one way valve, in electronics it is a rectifier, but that is on the back end of the problem after the electrons are still sloshing to and fro with no unidirectional acceleration.
We need to move the solution to the way we interact and couple to the electrons on the front end such that both edges of the pulse and both polarities of the pulse produce a rectification of electron motion.
We need to look for this method, and experiment to derive it. Smudge has been a great help in expanding our theoretical understanding of what might work, as you have with the many esoteric papers and research you have posted. Thanks for all of that.
Regards, ION
Try looking at induction from another perspective.
What is drift velocity measured against? The conductor? The
space around the conductor?
Also consider that the wavefront that initially occurs when a circuit is powered is several orders of magnitude faster than drift velocity.
Before you answer, let's look at the hv pulsed coil and magnet. The pulses from the coil make the magnet move violently with great force.
Francis Nipher wrote of a similar effect when placing a lead from a Whimhurst generator to a magnet and the magnetic force increased.
Nipher concluded that the
permeability of the space around the magnet was increased by the HV (either lead worked the same).
Rotating an electric field, through a magnetic field should produce a field of rotating higher permability, similar to a rotating magnetic field.
@cheappower2012
If you want a pretty good diagram of the LTPU, I have put them on my ftp site located here;
http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Steven%20Mark/wattsup-tpu/
Look at the SM17 files. There is a whole load of stuff on my ftp site on SM to help you out.
@all
OK, OK, maybe someone can look at this idea.
We all know the dilemma after so many years of pulsing our coils. Anytime you get high enough volts, the amps are the shits. We rarely make anything that has any decent amp rating on the output. So here is an idea.
Let's say you have a primary/secondary/core setup that when you pulse 12 volts dc into the primary at a low enough frequency like let's say 100 hz, you produce an output of 480 volts. But the 480 volts has really low amps and that voltage level is not really useful in our devices.
So 480 volts at 100hz. This means you have 100 rising sine waves per second going up to 480 volts each. Now what if you could take that 480 volts at 100Hz and before you send it to a load, you pass the positive output through a PNP mosfet that is pulsed at 4000Hz. WHAT VOLTAGE WILL REACH THE LOAD? Technically it should be 12 volts. Technically that mosfet should never see anything above 12 volts because it is pulsing to the load 40 times for each one pulse of the primary. If someone can work on this idea and get it working on the bench, I think this will be a real avenue for OU furtherance.
This little idea is worth mountains more then all the time that will be spent on the GG device.
We need to master a few side issues that you cannot do in one single build after build. At one stage or another some people need to do side research. This idea is one of them. I do not have the acumen but you guys rock up there every day.
The relation between this small idea and the LTPU may be pertinent. SM was always cautious around the LTPU. If the LTPU was producing high voltage that was "cut back" as per above. This may be a road to OU because during the high voltage production, there may be OU already that we know nothing about because we only consume it as it is produced. If the cut down output was sent to a load like half a center toroid as a primary, then the toroid secondary is the output and again this would match the high amp reading he showed when passing his ammeter over the toroids.
The analogy is simple. Just think of a licorice extruder. The licorice comes out in a continuous stream and a knife just cuts them to size. As to is this new or not, I think it is. I have never seen anyone try such an idea. Produce high volts and cut it down before it becomes high volts. SM could have discovered such an effect with normal sound wavelengths during his works on 3D sound. To make 3D sound you would require to receive a signal and "cut it up" into at least three ranges.
Just putting it out there.
wattsup
The electron velocity may be the key to this units operation. In AC it's moving both ways along the wire and DC is in one direction only. This is taken from a static reference point on the wire. If the reference point itself was moving at a high velocity then the AC waveform would be superimposed on a DC reference. Add a crap load of odd harmonics...
To get the reference point to move it requires a kick, in fact it requires many kicks and a little synchronicity.
The standard LC resonance doesn't apply here, the length of the cable itself is what's important.
Imagine for an instant that wire dipped into Mercury motor. It's pure simplicity, if we applied current the wire rotates if we stirred the mercury then applied the current, it's velocity from our viewpoint would increase.
There's a rotational medium being generated that affects the standard rest point to which we accept as stationary (field around a permanent magnet is spinning).
Remember that motor startup time experiment being faster after the first run up?
The normally static ground point is moving within the unit. This offsets the AC and may well have graviton side effects as moving the unit physically will cut across the ambient state of the surrounding ground point.
This explains many of the effects in a nutshell. HV biasing may play a role in 'loosening' the ambient ground state.
One thing people forget is the clampmeter used in the video, where SM measures the current of the big tpu,is set to detect
a magnetic field,it reacts to the earths magnetic field,the hold button zeros this out.This clampmeter will detect a stationary magnetic field or a pulsing magnetic field but not an ac magnetic field on this setting.It is possible that the reading on the toroids were readings of magnets embedded in the wood to create the wash board effect.As I have said before you have to very careful about facts SM put out
he should have been a politician(a professional liar). Theres going to be a great amount of different views of the tpu, however unless you can show how a vibration
can possibly occur in a wire then its all speculation.Its necessary to understand why the tpu would vibrate at all
and provide a possible cause, and demonstrate it as a starting point.My conclusion is current is generated in the bifular coil in the form of very low frequency ,high current
pulses ,by using a diode and a capacitor its possible to transfer these high current low frequency pulses to power things.
Heres transfer of energy by a bifular coil using low frequency high current pulses,This set up requires a capacitor and a diode to to light a 100 watt compact florescent bulb,the pulse rate was around 20 Hz
The diode allows the capacitor to build a charge during the pulse,when the pulse stops the diode prevents the capacitor from discharging thru the bifular coil,very simple stuff.
Assuming fixed magnets and then the foam core, could this be a trick of inertial vibration?
A professional liar would add this if it throws replicators. The gyroscopic feel can be created to some effect the same way if quadrants are sequentially pulsed.
Unless the magic actually does this itself, perhaps this effect causes the gain and its mechanical in nature. It'd be missed from a totally electronic viewpoint.
cheapower2012 said:
QuoteTheres going to be a great amount of different views of the tpu, however unless you can show how a vibration
can possibly occur in a wire then its all speculation.Its necessary to understand why the tpu would vibrate at all
and provide a possible cause, and demonstrate it as a starting point.My conclusion is current is generated in the bifular coil in the form of very low frequency ,high current
pulses
I did experiments with 4 foot long parallel wires stretched tightly , pulsed with an SCR narrow pulse circuit and using an impedance matching toroidal transformer. Considerable vibration was shown. I've lost track of the original thread, but Peterae has a replication thread of my initial stab at it.
Modelling of a transmission line with dynamic properties (movement and vibration) can be challenging, easier to just try it. Maybe Smudge could handle that one, as I lack the analytical skills, being more of a intuitive, visual researcher.
szaxx said:
QuoteAssuming fixed magnets and then the foam core, could this be a trick of inertial vibration?
A professional liar would add this if it throws replicators. The gyroscopic feel can be created to some effect the same way if quadrants are sequentially pulsed.
Unless the magic actually does this itself, perhaps this effect causes the gain and its mechanical in nature. It'd be missed from a totally electronic viewpoint.
I've been promoting this line of thought for a long time i.e. that the TPU is an electro-acoustic device therefore it's operation is not easily grasped.
The
mechanical rectification of motion of a pair of pulsed wires is very interesting and should be explored further.
BTW, you don't need magnets or quadrant pulsing, a ring resonator will work to create gyro and inertial effects.
You have the advantage ION, a ring resonator using low frequencies is in the microwave frequencies afaik. Can you supply more info on the KHz aspect of the resonator. It's something I've not come across yet and it may aid my investigation along the kinetic interactions.
Thanks.
Isn't it possible with a middle run of iron wire that core, being small in mass, would vibrate between two out of phase copper loops?
I worked in a transformer factory in my youth shelacing xfrmrs. I asked why do they need this? The plates vibrate and this stops them. The vibration will destroy the windings by the micro stress of the plates moving. That is why they are cushioned with paper wraps. Then I was put testing fluorescent ballasts. They hummed. This has stuck with me my whole life. When SM said these things vibrate I knew what he was talking about. Anything anybody else mentioned could not sway my belief in that experience. I felt it first hand. What is interesting there are so few people that have actually experienced that vibration based upon any other dissertation they might give. To me it is all talk. I know what I felt physically. With the ballasts it was weird. There was this quick acceleration like thump as the first part of the hum started.
No moving parts. And I tested unshelaced xfrmrs. They do exhibit a strange gyroscopic type unwillingness to be spun in space. I dont know if it the microvibration of the plates. As they are twisted in space when driven the vibrations change in their angular orientation to the planet's field. Just sayin' It might not sound sceintific but the experience never goes away.
Also when I put neos in the GK4 tests that too emitted vibration. Naturally this is a given. But I wanted to add vibration to see what the gyroscopic effect would be.
Call me ignorant but I have been there years before SM mentioned that.
The experience at the xfrmr factory put me in a very unique place in electronics to work with transformers in a pristine state where all components acted freely.
Agreed GK, our early experiences with coils, laminations, vibration etc do give us a unique perspective over those that have not had such fortune. That's why hands on tinkering is so valuable. Recently I made a new friend with the owner of a transformer factory, and got an extensive tour of the facility.
My latest transformer side adventure was to wind a reactor core (big inductor) for a home made DC stick welder, the core without wire was about 50 lbs, and yes those laminations will buzz on AC.
QuoteThere was this quick acceleration like thump as the first part of the hum started
Indeed it is interesting.
I use a 10 amp variac at work, the inrush current knocks out the breaker sometimes, even though it has a very small load, but it only does it if it has not been used for a few hours, a few minuets unused and it does not do it, it's almost like it gets conditioned to accept an ac current but reverts to a non conditioned state after a short time.
and like you with the hum i also used regularly a Degaussing coil for demagnetising a tv crt screen, sometimes you switch it on and it hums, other times you switch it on and it tugs or jumps with quiet a force, again AC, there seems to be something very special at switch on time, maybe harmonic content from an arcing switch during first current flow, it appears to be a random event.
Tv's again a large percentage of tv faults stem from someone using an extension lead or multiple plug adapter, they make them cheaply and use sprung brass connections, the Uk plug pushes into this spring clip, but they loose their spring strength and start arcing(black spots can be found on the plug pin), there are some interesting consequences, most often the line output transistor blows short, sometimes the line output transformer suffers punch through, where the internal insulation gets punched through and an external path to earth is found, this is despite the fact that crowbars or similar and filters are in place to stop excessive +B volts which feeds the line stage, you don't want an excessive +B voltage as this translates into a higher EHT 30Kv at the CRT anode and increases harmful X-ray radiation, so designers are very careful to stop this rail voltage from exceeding it's set value by much. this then begs the question why some particular makes/models would punch through the tube neck and breaking the crt glass neck off.
Anyway my number 1 tip, is to always have a scope probe laying near your experiments and terminate the tip with a 100K resistance to the probe earth with as short wires as possible, if you start seeing DC bursts then you are close.
Switch-on inrush current is usually determined by the remnant magnetism in the core from the last turnoff. Let's say you turned off at the peak flux of the negative cycle, then the core remembers this magnetization and the input current must try reverse it when you switch-on especially if you happen to switch-on near the peak voltage of the positive cycle. In that case the inrush can be very high . If you switch-off near the flux zero crossing, there is little to no net remnant magnetization, so a switch-on will generate less severe inrush current, and no inrush surge if you should switch on at zero voltage crossing.
While there are some errors in my description regarding when flux is at min or max (phase lag), this site has a better description:
http://www.electrical4u.com/magnetizing-inrush-current-in-power-transformer/
and this: http://www.electrical-installation.org/enwiki/Transformer-energizing_inrush_current
So it is a random event based on several factors. Hope this helps.
Quote from: ION on 2016.08.22, 22:30:56
Switch-on inrush current is usually determined by the remnant magnetism in the core from the last turnoff. Let's say you turned off at the peak flux of the negative cycle, then the core remembers this magnetization and the input current must try reverse it when you switch-on especially if you happen to switch-on near the peak voltage of the positive cycle. In that case the inrush can be very high . If you switch-off near the flux zero crossing, there is little to no net remnant magnetization, so a switch-on will generate less severe inrush current, and no inrush surge if you should switch on at zero voltage crossing.
While there are some errors in my description regarding when flux is at min or max (phase lag), this site has a better description:
http://www.electrical4u.com/magnetizing-inrush-current-in-power-transformer/
and this: http://www.electrical-installation.org/enwiki/Transformer-energizing_inrush_current
So it is a random event based on several factors. Hope this helps.
An interesting read ION,as this seems to be saying the same thing i was trying to say at OU,on the MH ideal coil and voltage question--which of course i was laughed at for.
So switching the polarity instantly across an inductor can cause this !inrush! current to have a large peak. This makes sense to me,as it would be like trying to change the direction of water flowing through a pipe instantly.
The collapsing magnetic field would want to keep the current flowing in one direction through the inductor,where the !now! inverted voltage would want to get the current flowing in the opposite direction,and so we get this !inrush! current at the point of !the now! inverted voltage across the inductor.
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2016.08.23, 14:14:08
An interesting read ION,as this seems to be saying the same thing i was trying to say at OU,on the MH ideal coil and voltage question--which of course i was laughed at for.
So switching the polarity instantly across an inductor can cause this !inrush! current to have a large peak. This makes sense to me,as it would be like trying to change the direction of water flowing through a pipe instantly.
The collapsing magnetic field would want to keep the current flowing in one direction through the inductor,where the !now! inverted voltage would want to get the current flowing in the opposite direction,and so we get this !inrush! current at the point of !the now! inverted voltage across the inductor.
Brad
Yes and remember that the core can have a memory i.e. a magnetized state based on which direction the flux had when the transformer was switched off. This is remnant magnetism (memory), same as a PMH, can last for a long time, until it is reset. The effect was used as "core" memory for data storage of early computers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic-core_memory
By having small /mass/volume of core we lose the memory volume of the flux in the core at an elevated, expedient level more the normal. With no place to hide the inrush executes an emp of even more phenominal exercise. There by releasing more charge into the 'surrounding' environment. The environment could be a cage, a toroidal field, a tubular wrapping. The choice is the maker's. All the tests and results that we've and others have done are simply different wrappings of collections of this exertation. Nothing else. With this said one can easily see not just to but through the result of any configuration.
More than normal? Think about a timeframe of any length. A motor is the very slow exercise of flux movement. From there we can view other configurations of 'wire' and 'core' to make this flux transition happen. The next quantum leap past a motor coil is the ignition coil. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the end result. Next, the OU group goes to air core. But the air core relies on parallel coupling. 359 degrees at most is lost to mismatched coupling. Add a small ferro core and you get a possible bomb. The core can collect at any angle but too small a core will vibrate itself to death. Tis a fine balance tween collection and emission to control sustainability.
Thanks ION for the explanation, i had never thought that remanence was responsible.
Tinned flex as in litz or lamp cord is slightly magnetic, perhaps the 'collector' was a choice word.
This is an interesting post from a newbie!
Offline Sequental.9
Newbie
*
Posts: 10
Re: THEORY on TPU energy scource
« Reply #43 on: Today at 05:48:35 AM »
Well, you lot are so far from the truth its time you got a little help ! Some variable transformers hold a charge it all depends on the iron and the perfected length of wire. A resonance is set up and sustained in the core of the primary transformer and then its just a matter of harmonics . You increase the resistance without increasing the length of the coil in the secondary transformer where back emf serves as a field pump compressing the wave dynamic.
The more you take out the more it will pump up until it overheats and brakes down and stops..... SIMPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards S9
Quote from: stprue on 2016.08.24, 13:50:33
This is an interesting post from a newbie!
Offline Sequental.9
Newbie
*
Posts: 10
Re: THEORY on TPU energy scource
« Reply #43 on: Today at 05:48:35 AM »
Well, you lot are so far from the truth its time you got a little help ! Some variable transformers hold a charge it all depends on the iron and the perfected length of wire. A resonance is set up and sustained in the core of the primary transformer and then its just a matter of harmonics . You increase the resistance without increasing the length of the coil in the secondary transformer where back emf serves as a field pump compressing the wave dynamic.
The more you take out the more it will pump up until it overheats and brakes down and stops..... SIMPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards S9
[/quote
I wrote this guy a reply:
http://overunity.com/3605/theory-on-tpu-energy-scource/msg490364/topicseen/#new
We'll see what comes back.
Regards, ION
Dear all.
Not too sure, but I'm pretty certain that the above has been quoted before.. Atomix??
We used Variac's a lot when I worked for the supply industry from 1 Amp up to 30 Amp. Current inrush was seen regularly. I do remember getting the the connections wrong on a 5 Amp unit and upon switch on all my tools leapt at the casing !! Luckily for me the fuse blew before any serious damage occurred.
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Grumage on 2016.08.24, 18:18:46
Dear all.
Not too sure, but I'm pretty certain that the above has been quoted before.. Atomix??
We used Variac's a lot when I worked for the supply industry from 1 Amp up to 30 Amp. Current inrush was seen regularly. I do remember getting the the connections wrong on a 5 Amp unit and upon switch on all my tools leapt at the casing !! Luckily for me the fuse blew before any serious damage occurred.
Cheers Grum.
Dear Grum
That is an odd story about the Variac, because all of the B field should have been contained in the core and it should not have attracted your tools. Maybe you wired it such that the two ends were connected together and current was fed into the slider contact, which if at about 1/2 setting would have produced a bucking coil
arrangement, throwing the B field outside the core.
Interesting. Do you happen to remember how you wired it?
BTW, a Variac can make a dandy variable inductor by just using the slider contact and one of the end windings. You can tune the inductor to resonate with a series or shunt capacitor. Only real problem is they are limited to low frequencies and the carbon slider resistance drops the possible "Q" a bit.
Regards, ION
Dear ION.
My apologies for the late reply, busy day, yesterday.
The accident I had was well over 30 years ago but so bizarre, the memory has stayed fresh. The tools were heavy duty, electricians pliers, side cutters, box and flat spanners ( wrenches ). I'm unable to remember how I wired it but the noise was really loud.
I was explaining to Chet yesterday that our gear had to be portable so things like Variac's were put into wooden boxes. The substations we both commissioned and maintained were dotted everywhere over the 1500 square Mile area that was our patch. The Variac was our most used piece of test equipment, from testing Voltage transformers to pushing 1000's of Amps into the primary bars for Current indication and circuit protection.
Ah... those were the days. Looking back, probably the most enjoyable of my working life.
Kind regards, Grum.
Quote from: Grumage on 2016.08.26, 11:53:59
Dear ION.
My apologies for the late reply, busy day, yesterday.
The accident I had was well over 30 years ago but so bizarre, the memory has stayed fresh. The tools were heavy duty, electricians pliers, side cutters, box and flat spanners ( wrenches ). I'm unable to remember how I wired it but the noise was really loud.
I was explaining to Chet yesterday that our gear had to be portable so things like Variac's were put into wooden boxes. The substations we both commissioned and maintained were dotted everywhere over the 1500 square Mile area that was our patch. The Variac was our most used piece of test equipment, from testing Voltage transformers to pushing 1000's of Amps into the primary bars for Current indication and circuit protection.
Ah... those were the days. Looking back, probably the most enjoyable of my working life.
Kind regards, Grum.
Dear Graham
Thanks for replying. Ah! yes, the good old days.
Not to worry, we can always attempt to replicate a mis-wired Variac. I have a few rather large ones here. If you can remember the approximate size or weight that might be a good start.
Cheers, ION
Quote from: ION on 2016.08.26, 15:31:42
Dear Graham
Thanks for replying. Ah! yes, the good old days.
Not to worry, we can always attempt to replicate a mis-wired Variac. I have a few rather large ones here. If you can remember the approximate size or weight that might be a good start.
Cheers, ION
Dear ION.
Yes indeed, the good old days... Our department head who started his working life with the North Wales power company called them Halcyon days. When asked how long he had worked there? His reply was..... My first job was to remove a Pterodactyl from the overhead line !! :)
The variac in question was probably a 3 Amp version. We just bolted them onto a wooden plinth and fitted 4mm banana sockets for the test leads.
Big Bertha only came out on the odd occasion, it was literally a two man lift!! As were some of the Primary injection transformers we had.
Kind regards, Grum.
Dear Graham
re:
QuoteMy first job was to remove a Pterodactyl from the overhead line !!
Speaking of the good old days, at the plant I once heard someone exclaim: "they just discovered fire in the cave next door!".
Cheers, ION
Quote from: ION on 2016.08.26, 18:43:39
Dear Graham
re:
Speaking of the good old days, at the plant I once heard someone exclaim: "they just discovered fire in the cave next door!".
Cheers, ION
Caveman 1: Howd he do it?
Caveman 2: By rubbing two sticks together!
Caveman 1: What? Lying SOB. He's a conman and we know it.
Caveman 2: Maybe. But if he wasn't living in a cave he'd have burnt the place to the ground!
Cavemen 1: Whats 'Burnt"?
Quote from: Grumpy on 2016.08.16, 15:46:03
The first TPU only had one toroid.
EDIT:
You all should really try a HV pulsed coil around/near a magnet...
No! 'Expletive!' Do not do this. I have permanent nerve damage in my right hand.
The magnets buzz producing kicks like a microwave EMP.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2016.08.27, 02:20:34
No! 'Expletive!' Do not do this. I have permanent nerve damage in my right hand.
The magnets buzz producing kicks like a microwave EMP.
Graham Gunderson applied HV to a 6x4 block ferrite and recieved a nasty headache with a friend also falling foul to this effect. They argued out of character and lost the friendship as a result. Bad move by all respects.
Dear All.
I watched a video recently where some guys attached some HV to a PM, it exploded violently. I'll try and locate the link. I'm pretty sure T-1000 knows about this.
I was conditioning some HV capacitors earlier this year by constant charging and discharging across an open spark gap to ground. I had a large piece of Cast Iron tube sat vertically in the vicinity. At every discharge an NE 2 would flash and then decrease in brightness with one end touching the tube with the other leg grounded.
Not sure whether this was due to the HV source....... Might be interesting to try discharging a lower voltage high capacity cap, to see what happens?
Cheers Grum.
OK.
Quote from: Grumage on 2016.08.27, 12:22:59
Dear All.
I watched a video recently where some guys attached some HV to a PM, it exploded violently. I'll try and locate the link. I'm pretty sure T-1000 knows about this.
I was conditioning some HV capacitors earlier this year by constant charging and discharging across an open spark gap to ground. I had a large piece of Cast Iron tube sat vertically in the vicinity. At every discharge an NE 2 would flash and then decrease in brightness with one end touching the tube with the other leg grounded.
Not sure whether this was due to the HV source....... Might be interesting to try discharging a lower voltage high capacity cap, to see what happens?
Cheers Grum.
I saw this vid of an international arms dealing touting his wares. One of the weapons was a metal helmet with neo balls stuck all over it. Beside it he held a stun gun. The CIA labeled it a mind eraser.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2016.08.27, 17:36:00
I saw this vid of an international arms dealing touting his wares. One of the weapons was a metal helmet with neo balls stuck all over it. Beside it he held a stun gun. The CIA labeled it a mind eraser.
Dear giantkiller.
Mind eraser? Could be read one of two ways, both permanent but one non fatal!!
I'm hoping the latter? Depends upon your point of view, I guess.
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Grumage on 2016.08.27, 17:55:52
Dear giantkiller.
Mind eraser? Could be read one of two ways, both permanent but one non fatal!!
I'm hoping the latter? Depends upon your point of view, I guess.
Cheers Grum.
I guess it just depends on the size of the headache.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2016.08.27, 18:25:36
I guess it just depends on the size of the headache.
;D Indeed.
I feel my post might have been a little cryptic, on a serious note are you suggesting an EMP type of event?
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Grumage on 2016.08.27, 18:33:28
;D Indeed.
I feel my post might have been a little cryptic, on a serious note are you suggesting an EMP type of event?
Cheers Grum.
Yep. Have done many. Broken alot of equipment, pcs, routers, cable models, scopes, meters, gfi outlets, medula oblongatas, frontal lobes, retina nerve cords. Yep been thru the great overunity war back in aut 7. When men were men and women fainted at the eclipse of an emp. Thems were the days. Still gotta limp in me thumb. Prehensile days are not what they used to be. Chimpanzees now have the upper digit on me.
https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000790.htm (https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000790.htm)
Jane Goodall wants to do focus group study on my de-evolution.