http://overunity.com/2300/bruces-tpu-theory-and-experiments-ver-1-2/new/topicseen/#new
respectfully
Chet K
Quote from: Chet K on 2016.12.20, 18:39:09
http://overunity.com/2300/bruces-tpu-theory-and-experiments-ver-1-2/new/topicseen/#new
respectfully
Chet K
http://tpupower.net/contact.php
Not sure who's forum this is, (Bruce?) but it can be joined for a subscription fee. Someone named "Aaron" is the graphic web designer. (facepalm)
http://tpupower.net/offer.php
Let's hope Bruce has something interesting to show in 5 days.
A repost from here
http://overunity.com/2300/bruces-tpu-theory-and-experiments-ver-1-2/msg497473/#new
quote
BruceTPU
""Hello guys,
In preparation for what I'm giving you Christmas day, the circuit to make kicks electronically, you REALLY need to understand what the kick is and what causes it so that YOU can come up with ways to generate a LOT more.
This first video has poor sound and I made it a long time ago, so apologies ahead of time. Future video or two I may decide to share before Christmas, the sound is much better!
I'm not going to answer any TPU questions until Christmas day (some questions, within reason)
I will be posting things only to this thread.
Today's lesson :
https://youtu.be/pux_QHARA5Y
Cheers and enjoy,
Bruce
end quote
That's pretty rich... a blind man, giving lessons on how to see...
Guess what.... E=-d(phi)/dt.
Well
speaking for myself .... well actually quite a few others too .
It will be good to see BruceTPU's Christmas day gift ,and just where it leads .
regardless, I am grateful for his efforts and his willingness to share his work , and I am quite certain he expects scrutiny !!
I would imagine he embraces it, as any serious claimant would.
respectfully
Chet K
PS
I call your _E=-d(phi)/dt. _ and raise you two cheeseburgers [Extra Cheese]
winner take all ??
Has BruceTPU ever actually built a functioning TPU? I don't believe that he has. So why is he giving us "lessons" on how to build one?
Look at it this way. Would you take a guitar lesson from someone who can't play a guitar himself, has only one hand, with three fingers, is tone deaf, and who has never actually _seen_ a guitar?
Sure, I'm looking forward to seeing what he presents as a Christmas gift too. I'll wager it is some kind of interrupter circuit that rapidly cuts off the current in a coil to produce a high-voltage spike. Here's what it _won't_ be: self sustaining, or overunity, or presenting any new electronics or physics principles.
I'm happy to see people present their experiments and results. I am _not_ happy with people who claim to "know better" or who pretend to "give lessons" about things they can't do themselves, especially when the information they "teach" is actually misinformation, mere conjecture and/or flat-out wrong.
I'm always willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt, however we should do our "due diligence" with any claimant. In the video posted, there are some possible errors perhaps unintentional. I hope these can be discussed later.
1) the schematic shows a connection dot that effectively shorts out diode D4. This in effect places D2 nearly directly across the input supply. I believe it is an unintentional schematic error.
2) putting a 25k resistor in the shield lead of one's scope will lead to a lot of hash and noise spikes on the actual sensing tip of the probe. We see this on the scope. Is there another scope ground in the system?
The schematic itself is difficult to decipher, as there seems to be no actual use for the two transformers as the only load is the scope's input impedance or possibly the 25k resistor. We do not see the probing points for the other channel.
The lamp load seems to be mainly supplied by the input source. Since the schematic is very blurry ,we will have to wait for a clearer version.
I remain humble at the gate of insight.
the thing with ch1 and ch2 may be a signal generator instead of a scope.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2016.12.25, 17:09:50
the thing with ch1 and ch2 may be a signal generator instead of a scope.
Very true, G, and that would make more sense as far as mixing two frequencies in an phase sensitive transformer circuit.
The problem with documentation that is wanting.
Quote from: ION on 2016.12.25, 17:50:13
Very true, G, and that would make more sense as far as mixing two frequencies in an phase sensitive transformer circuit.
The problem with documentation that is wanting.
The problem with the "documentation" is that it makes no sense, makes no coherent claims and looks like it was drawn by someone with absolutely no knowledge of how to draw a proper schematic. Light up an LED with a 9 volt battery and a function generator? Merry Christmas !!!!
Can someone translate this into terms that I might be able to understand?
http://overunity.com/2300/bruces-tpu-theory-and-experiments-ver-1-2/msg497567/#msg497567
"Kicks" ? How's this for "kicks": 800 v "kicks" from a depleted AAA battery, lighting up 6 NE-2s in series, no function generator or other power supply used.
Here is the circuit as it should be drawn. This has so many problems e.g. attaching the scope ground to the flyback point.
Lighting a super high brightness LED in this configuration is proof of nothing, since it can be lit up with far less e.g. just attaching it to an antenna and holding the other end of the LED.
I expected better documentation and a test procedure that is a proof of principle.
Hopefully Bruce will show how to light an incandescent lamp of a few watts with no other equipment attached, not a super bright LED hooked to a flyback circuit and needing batteries.
Thanks for the re-draw. Can you explain how the P-ch mosfet is being used "in a novel way"? Since to me it appears to be used as an ordinary high-side switch (cleverly disguised by putting the positive rail on the bottom of the schematic instead of the top).
As far as "lighting an incandescent lamp of a few watts with no other equipment attached" ... well, maybe he'll show us that next Christmas. :D
QuoteIn preparation for what I'm giving you Christmas day, the circuit to make kicks electronically, you REALLY need to understand what the kick is and what causes it so that YOU can come up with ways to generate a LOT more.
Was this constraint met as promised?
The driver circuit is upside down. Then is the pulse inset meant to be flipped also. And then could this be a reader circuit by impacting the aether with a primary pulse?
We were told a kick generator but the caption reads 'Stethoscope'.
Does inverting multiple random points constitute a new found discovery from an advertised theory?
Or do we have a false prophet looking for followers or competing demigogs? Just asking...
Only Truth withstands contentions.
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2016.12.26, 03:22:02
Thanks for the re-draw. Can you explain how the P-ch mosfet is being used "in a novel way"? Since to me it appears to be used as an ordinary high-side switch (cleverly disguised by putting the positive rail on the bottom of the schematic instead of the top).
As far as "lighting an incandescent lamp of a few watts with no other equipment attached" ... well, maybe he'll show us that next Christmas. :D
Hi TK
While it is customary to draw the positive rail at the top of the circuit and negative rail at the bottom, it is not always the case, especially when it is an all PNP populated circuit. I chose to draw a positive ground circuit for clarity, but this can be easily flipped. Actually the only ground specified is the scope ground, which is strangely put on the drain of the FET, where huge spikes will be injected into the scope ground, skewing any tip measurements. Not a good practice.
Since Bruce does not specify if he is using an enhancement mode or depletion mode FET, it is difficult to decipher exactly what he is doing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depletion_and_enhancement_modes
I see nothing novel about the use of the unspecified Pfet device. Without this information, an not knowing what the signal generator levels are set to, we are left to play a guessing game.
A worthy full disclosure would include much better documentation including a procedure that explains exactly what the circuit is supposed to do.
As long as he is using super bright LED's that can be lit with microwatts of power and shuffling those uWatts around a switching circuit that includes an antenna that has a capacitance to earth, I think it is easy to fool oneself and jump to some false conclusions regarding where the power for the LED is coming from.
I hope I am proven wrong.
Since Bruce was offended by Marco's most recent post (now deleted), he left the stage so its all moot.
If Bruce were able to light a small incandescent bulb without the use of batteries, he might have something interesting to replicate.
GK said:
QuoteOr do we have a false prophet looking for followers or competing demigogs? Just asking...
Only Truth withstands contentions.
Well GK, you can plunk down $9.95 a month and get the "Truth" directly from Bruce here:
http://tpupower.net/offer.php
QuoteFor seven years and thousands of hours, working off of the notes of one of the greatest unknown minds of our time, Bruce was able to solve mathematically for the the use of Earth's stationary waves created within the cavity that exists between the ionosphere and Earth ground. This cavity has an inherent resonant frequency.
By tuning just off of this frequency of the Earth and by accelerating electrons to near the speed of light with an antenna like configuration, this green energy source CAN be tapped. This would transform the planet as we know it, allowing unlimited power usage worldwide. Solar energy depends upon the sun shining. Wind energy depends upon the wind blowing. But this energy obtained via tapping into these huge magnetic waves that surround the Earth are available 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
YOU can now be a part of this historic research! By SUBSCRIBING TODAY you will enjoy a front row seat as the shift is made from mathematical theory to a real world working device!
YOUR subscription will help to fund this ongoing, energy revolution!
When you subscribe to the "Schumann's Secret" Newsletter, you will have delivered to your email a twice monthly summary of the previous weeks experiments and be given box office seats to private YouTube videos of the ongoing quest, via experimentation!
For less than the cost of just one soda a month, you WILL BE part of an energy revolution!
Forum subscription ($9.95/mo):
Somebody has expensive taste in soda pop, more than $9.95 ?
That's some pretty expensive soda! :P
Oh... and just for grins... the power of capacitance to earth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULDh8sTc8Kw
No soda thanks, but I will can haz cheezburger now... :-* :-*
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2016.12.26, 06:18:12
That's some pretty expensive soda! :P
Cheap compared to this:
https://www.amazon.com/VIRGILS-SODA-ROOT-BEER-16-8/dp/B001HTRBPK/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Bruce was right!
But let's look closer at this:
Quote(you will) be given box office seats to private YouTube videos of the ongoing quest, via experimentation!
Note the words "ongoing
QUEST!In other words, Bruce is still searching like everyone else, but gets to freely see everyone else's open source work, repackage it and charge $9.95 a month for it while everyone else gives their work gratis.
"Have I got a deal for you. Not $10.00, not $9.00 but $9.95 That's naan naanty five just for you".
I guess Bruce was expecting a flock of new subscribers to join his secret forum, when that didn't happen and so few took the bait of the "Christmas Surprise" he left disappointed.
As a gesture of "Good Will to all men everywhere", maybe Bruce could have for that one day allowed access to his forum, to see if they liked it enough to subscribe.
TK: nice demo of how capacitance to the surrounding environment can trick people into thinking they only have one wire, and
no apparent current return path.
Peter already showed the real "kick" a long time ago.
Well, that proves one thing at least: you can fool some of the people all of the time ...
The true gift was from Turbo for asking perfectly reasonable questions.
This is pure cringe...
a follow up question from Bruce [TPU]
http://overunity.com/2300/bruces-tpu-theory-and-experiments-ver-1-2/new/topicseen/#new
Wanted to post the following in "Bruce's TPU Theory and Experiments ver.1.2" thread on overunity.com, but it seems to be locked.
I put it here for later use, any comments welcome:
Allmost there, still waiting for the UDB 130xs FG as i don't want to toast my Rigol FG
How are the other replicators going?
I made the below quick setup using my single channel UDB1000 FG which drives the both MOSFETs simultaneously.
I use only one 12V battery for the moment for the offset, and one 12V battery for attachment to the WIRE.
The picture explains the severall components.
Be aware that the P channel MOSFETs need a negative(r) voltage on the gates conmpared to the source (at 36V) to be switching
The screenshot shows in blue the source voltage (here only 12V), and in yellow the gate voltage (when out of circuit).
(i have slightly offset the blue and yellow channels to see more clearly, but they should be on the same level!!).
So set your FG to a square wave ALL NEGATIVE signal 96% / 95% duty cycle etc.
The current probe will be measuring any currents on the WIRE.
There is now some magnetic field as being picked up by the magnetic pickup loop VU meter, but this disappears when attaching the ground leads of the scope.
The signals when scoped (gate, source and current) are terrible, but will be showed when the setup is complete with 36V batteries, and the correct dual channel FG
Regards itsu
Dear Itsu
From Bruce's gift drawing we notice there is no load resistance in the drain-source-battery-fuse-meter circuit. Hence, the only factors that can limit peak current are the residual resistance and inductance of the devices in the loop, but the predominant resistance will be the "on-resistance" of the FET itself.
Looking at the curves on p-3-422 of the attached data sheet, we observe in the lower left the "on-resistance" figures for various gate drive applied voltage. The curves go steeply vertical for low gate drive voltage, but seem to be about 3 to 5 Ohms up to 1000 mA for higher gate drive. Also note the lower right drawing on the same page which indicates a rise of on-resistance versus temperature of the device.
With this in mind, we can roughly calculate the power being dissipated by the FET for a given gate drive voltage, also we can factor in the duty cycle. There should be some very high peak currents in the circuit.
I suspect this circuit will be prone to blow out the FET's if the duty cycle "on time" is high. I also expect with 36 volts applied that the FET's will be quite hot, which will further increase on resistance, thus limiting current even further if they don't burn out first.
IMO, I see this circuit circuit as little more than an air core pwm driver to the pickup loop, but to give Bruce the benefit of the doubt, maybe there is some magic in the frequency mixing ? Good input / output power measurements would prove if this circuit arrangement has any merit, which Bruce has not done. Lighting an LED is proof of very little.
Hope this helps
Hi ION,
thanks for the info, yes i optimistically only ordered 5x the ZVP2110A MOSFETs, and i am now already working with the last 2.
The problem initially was that there was / is no mention on how the input square wave signal suppose to look like, and if one starts with
an AC or worse an all positive DC like square wave signal, the MOSFETs (gates?) will blow quickly.
Only after adjusting the FG to give an all negative square wave signal they kind of did what they have to do, switching.
And yes, the duty cycle and/or the amplitude of the negative square wave is very important to keep the current in the drain-source-battery-fuse-meter circuit
around the stated 7.5mA.
I recently tried with 24V and had to further adjust the amplitude to stay at 7.5mA
Scoping in this circuit is dificult as it seems to kill the effect (which there is) when putting the scope ground lead to the 36V negative lead.
The signals i do see are terrible, lots of ringing, probably due to the FG being in the circuit and / or the long WIRE to the 12V battery.
Anyway, i hope that Bruce can unlock his thread so i can post it there for other replicators (which there are) to see.
Itsu
Hi Itsu
May I suggest that you include small incandescent lamps in the loops to save your FET's, at least initially until the circuit is tuned to the proper current draw.
As you know, the cold resistance of the lamps will be quite low but
(properly sized) will quickly protect by increasing the resistance should the current run too high.
If you are worried about the inductance of the lamp filaments you can put some small capacitors (0.1 uF) across the lamps, but for me this would not be a worry.
I also suggest you monitor the peak currents with a clamp type scope probe or CSR and try to not exceed the device peak ratings.
Also some 15V to 20V Zener diodes gate to source would help protect the FET's from oxide puncture.
Regards
ION,
i do have a 12V (need to upgrade to 24V now) bulb in the plus lead from the batteries, it protected the MOSFETs already.
The below video shows there is current (AC like ringing) in the WIRE and also the magnetic field thats being picked up by the magnetic pickup loop.
I want to keep this replication as close as possible, so will do without any additional zeners for now, but thanks.
Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VJhf-LAkyY
Itsu
This is the current in the 24V supply lead (Fluke DC mA meter shows 6mA).
The MOSFETs are not getting warm.
The ringing frequency is about 8.33Mhz.
Itsu
Hi Itsu
It looks like the very low duty cycle is saving the FET's, i.e. being only turned on very briefly. The ringing from stray inductance in the circuit is probably most of what is being coupled to the pickup loop. This reminds me of an early spark-gap transmitter circuit, where the occasional high current pulse rings the tank circuit.
Any attempt at tighter coupling and more efficient power transfer will tend to dampen the ringing. But maybe this is not the intent of the circuit :-\.
Yes, if you are careful about not exceeding the gate voltage then the Zeners are not needed.
Regards and happy experimenting
What's it _supposed_ to do according to Santa Claws?
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2018.01.15, 21:50:10
What's it _supposed_ to do according to Santa Claws?
/-
He believes he has stumbled on to a FE device but offers no real proof with measurements.
Personally I think Bruce is grossly misinterpreting his meagre results. From what I can observe of the videos on his youtube channel, he has minimal skills and experience in electronics but lots of experience as a preacher.
https://www.youtube.com/user/TPUBruce/videos
Watch Bruce in action here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW1B_FHa41c
Would you trust this man to guide you towards a FE machine? Well, regardless of skill or experience, Bruce continues to try, as he has been for many years, so I admire his persistence and tenacity to the subject.
This is my impression also.
What I do NOT admire about him is his holier-than-thou attitude (but what else can one expect from a preacherman?) Like some others we could name he doesn't act like a seeker but like someone who has "found", but he himself cannot, however hard he has tried, actually DO what he pretends to teach others to do.
The funny hat is quite a feature, though.
(If God had wanted Man to have Free Energy, He would have given us the sun, the wind and the rain. Oh... wait........)
I was going to attempt this circuit. After seeing the vid I was not encouraged further. Itsu has a very nice neat setup, more in line of what I might have expected from Bruce.
The only thing I might be in agreement on is the electrons being magnets themselves. Many reasons to possibly believe so.
Mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2018.01.16, 12:25:45
I was going to attempt this circuit. After seeing the vid I was not encouraged further. Itsu has a very nice neat setup, more in line of what I might have expected from Bruce.
The only thing I might be in agreement on is the electrons being magnets themselves. Many reasons to possibly believe so.
Mags
Conjecture:
Yes, electrons have also another important property......inertia. (see Tolman-Stewart experiments). In a circuit that rings as in Itsu's very nice scope capture we see the effect of ringing i.e. we have an impulse and electrons slosh back and forth wasting the impulse energy by radiating it into space at the high ringing frequency. Energy is also wasted in frictional losses in the wire and components.
While most have been trying to achieve better "resonance" and high Q circuits, it may be the very thing we need to avoid!.
If the inductive effects and ringing could be nullified or eliminated as far as possible, each impulse could (by proper circuit arrangement) be made to propel the electrons in one direction only, gaining speed with each impulse, and putting what energy would have been wasted to good use. More powerful impulses in a ringing (tank) circuit only increase the amplitude of oscillation, they do not appreciably change the frequency nor the speed of electrons, which are determined by the L-C components e.g. in Bruce's circuit, stray capacitance and inductance.
What also would be needed is a circular "racetrack" for the electrons and a means of nullifying the effects of the earth magnetic field. The earth magnetic field creates the unwanted incorrect alignment of electrons in the wire "racetrack" because of the electrons magnetic properties.
The earth magnetic field can be easily overcome with a toroidal overwinding on the "racetrack" wire and a weak DC current applied.
What is needed is a head to toe alignment of the electron's magnetic poles in the wire. The electrons can then find preferred pathways in the wire, minimizing wasteful collisions.
As the electrons are accelerated, there will always be a number of unwanted wasteful collisions with nuclei that will produce a heating effect in the wire. This is unavoidable.
These unwanted collisions will result in a sudden braking effect on the electron (bremsstrahlung) with the attendant release of electromagnetic radiation.
QuoteBremsstrahlung is electromagnetic radiation produced by the deceleration of a charged particle when deflected by another charged particle, typically an electron by an atomic nucleus. The moving particle loses kinetic energy, which is converted into a photon, thus satisfying the law of conservation of energy.
Thus far energy has been conserved, however the accelerated electrons may also provide an avalanche effect within the wire, providing a cascade of otherwise bound electrons to be released. And perhaps even those released photons can be put to good use.
This could result in a transmutation effect within the copper atoms of the wire, converting to isotopes of copper with large energy release.
So we may have built a tabletop high speed particle accelerator (an energy conversion device), and enjoy the benefits thereof.
The title was "conjecture", but was inspired by a very careful reading of SM's emails to Mannix. Even if SM was a fraud, he caused me to "ponder" in a different direction. Science fiction?...maybe.
Thanks to Itsu for the scope capture.
Thanks guys for your insights, very interesting ION.
What it suppose to do is create a magnetic field in the WIRE to the floating 12V battery without there flowing any current.
But the first screenshot above (post #28) surely shows a ringing like current flowing back and forth to the floating battery, so i guess this will
generate a magnetic field.
When i dissconnect the WIRE going to the 12V floating battery, the 8.33Mhz ringing signal on the current in the 24V supply lead stays, so
this WIRE does not work as a tank circuit then.
Itsu
Having the lone battery at the end of the coil would seem to be a reservoir that the coil can interact with to allow some current flow. Like when I did crystal radios as a kid, I could use a suspended in air metal pipe for the gnd end and still get signal, though not as strong as a true earth gnd.
Will be back later to respond further to your post Ion
Mags
Quote from: Itsu on 2018.01.16, 15:30:24
Thanks guys for your insights, very interesting ION.
What it suppose to do is create a magnetic field in the WIRE to the floating 12V battery without there flowing any current.
But the first screenshot above (post #28) surely shows a ringing like current flowing back and forth to the floating battery, so i guess this will
generate a magnetic field.
When i dissconnect the WIRE going to the 12V floating battery, the 8.33Mhz ringing signal on the current in the 24V supply lead stays, so
this WIRE does not work as a tank circuit then.
Itsu
Dear Itsu
I agree with mags
I suspect that the floating battery with one connection is merely adding extra capacitance to the surrounding environment and the same effect would occur with a cardboard box of the same approximate dimensions covered with aluminum foil. Nothing magic about using the floating battery IMHO.
something similar from 1886, Amos Dolbear patent
https://www.google.com/patents/US350299 (https://www.google.com/patents/US350299)
Quote from: ION on 2018.01.16, 14:25:01
Conjecture:
Yes, electrons have also another important property......inertia. (see Tolman-Stewart experiments). In a circuit that rings as in Itsu's very nice scope capture we see the effect of ringing i.e. we have an impulse and electrons slosh back and forth wasting the impulse energy by radiating it into space at the high ringing frequency. Energy is also wasted in frictional losses in the wire and components.
While most have been trying to achieve better "resonance" and high Q circuits, it may be the very thing we need to avoid!.
If the inductive effects and ringing could be nullified or eliminated as far as possible, each impulse could (by proper circuit arrangement) be made to propel the electrons in one direction only, gaining speed with each impulse, and putting what energy would have been wasted to good use. More powerful impulses in a ringing (tank) circuit only increase the amplitude of oscillation, they do not appreciably change the frequency nor the speed of electrons, which are determined by the L-C components e.g. in Bruce's circuit, stray capacitance and inductance.
Thus far energy has been conserved, however the accelerated electrons may also provide an avalanche effect within the wire, providing a cascade of otherwise bound electrons to be released. And perhaps even those released photons can be put to good use.
This could result in a transmutation effect within the copper atoms of the wire, converting to isotopes of copper with large energy release.
So we may have built a tabletop high speed particle accelerator (an energy conversion device), and enjoy the benefits thereof.
The title was "conjecture", but was inspired by a very careful reading of SM's emails to Mannix. Even if SM was a fraud, he caused me to "ponder" in a different direction. Science fiction?...maybe.
Thanks to Itsu for the scope capture.
Hello ION,
Your comments about unidirectional impulses reminded me of some experiments we did a few years ago when working with the Tesla Switch. We discovered that if you pulse the primary of a transformer with DC pulses instead of AC you can get some pretty strange results. I don't recall the exact frequency we used but I think it was in the neighborhood of 400 Hz or so. When pulsing the primary of a 120 volt to 12 volt step down transformer with 24 volts or so the normally 12 volt output would seem to adjust to whatever the load required. I could light up 12 bulbs or 120 volt bulbs without changing the input. Very strange behavior.
Take care,
Carroll
Quote from: CITFTA
When pulsing the primary of a 120 volt to 12 volt step down transformer with 24 volts or so the normally 12 volt output would seem to adjust to whatever the load required. I could light up 12 bulbs or 120 volt bulbs without changing the input. Very strange behavior.
Did you scope the waveshape of the loaded output to
evaluate why this was so? There may be an explanation.
Bruce unlocked his thread for now, so i put my relevant posts overthere.
Hopefully we will see some other replicators results and / or comments.
http://overunity.com/2300/bruces-tpu-theory-and-experiments-ver-1-2/msg515506/#new
Itsu
Quote from: ION on 2018.01.16, 14:25:01
Conjecture:
Yes, electrons have also another important property......inertia. (see Tolman-Stewart experiments). In a circuit that rings as in Itsu's very nice scope capture we see the effect of ringing i.e. we have an impulse and electrons slosh back and forth wasting the impulse energy by radiating it into space at the high ringing frequency. Energy is also wasted in frictional losses in the wire and components.
While most have been trying to achieve better "resonance" and high Q circuits, it may be the very thing we need to avoid!.
If the inductive effects and ringing could be nullified or eliminated as far as possible, each impulse could (by proper circuit arrangement) be made to propel the electrons in one direction only, gaining speed with each impulse, and putting what energy would have been wasted to good use. More powerful impulses in a ringing (tank) circuit only increase the amplitude of oscillation, they do not appreciably change the frequency nor the speed of electrons, which are determined by the L-C components e.g. in Bruce's circuit, stray capacitance and inductance.
What also would be needed is a circular "racetrack" for the electrons and a means of nullifying the effects of the earth magnetic field. The earth magnetic field creates the unwanted incorrect alignment of electrons in the wire "racetrack" because of the electrons magnetic properties.
The earth magnetic field can be easily overcome with a toroidal overwinding on the "racetrack" wire and a weak DC current applied.
What is needed is a head to toe alignment of the electron's magnetic poles in the wire. The electrons can then find preferred pathways in the wire, minimizing wasteful collisions.
As the electrons are accelerated, there will always be a number of unwanted wasteful collisions with nuclei that will produce a heating effect in the wire. This is unavoidable.
These unwanted collisions will result in a sudden braking effect on the electron (bremsstrahlung) with the attendant release of electromagnetic radiation.
Thus far energy has been conserved, however the accelerated electrons may also provide an avalanche effect within the wire, providing a cascade of otherwise bound electrons to be released. And perhaps even those released photons can be put to good use.
This could result in a transmutation effect within the copper atoms of the wire, converting to isotopes of copper with large energy release.
So we may have built a tabletop high speed particle accelerator (an energy conversion device), and enjoy the benefits thereof.
The title was "conjecture", but was inspired by a very careful reading of SM's emails to Mannix. Even if SM was a fraud, he caused me to "ponder" in a different direction. Science fiction?...maybe.
Thanks to Itsu for the scope capture.
Some issues with what Bruce presented is that he wont give any specs to the coils used. Sure the wire gauge, but no turns numbers nor diameter and such. Said we have to experiment. I had to stop there with my interests in it. Like maybe if Itsu changed the dimensions and turns of the coils, would that change the ring freq he is reading? Not lazy but like I said earlier, the mess bruce had on the bench in the vid also discouraged me as we might need to replicate the 'mess' to see his results there. Not sure.
Electrons have inertia? Cool. Ill look into your reference.
Im more interested in what Turbo had posted about the 3 windings at OU. If the middle coil were a pickup or say collector coil, would applying input to the outer and inner coil have a different affect on the middle coil than if only the outer or inner coil had input alone? Just never thought of that before.
Mags
Mags
It was exactly Turbo's drawing that got me re-thinking the TPU, Many of the ideas seem to be coming together into a possible clearer explanation of what might be happening in SM's TPU.
Let's discuss it further on the new thread I just opened, so we don't derail this thread.
Regards
Thanks guys,
Mags, the "specs to the coils used" you mentioned above in your post is not really a coil, its just a length of wire as i understand it, i call it the WIRE.
But using my diy magnetic pickup loop, i did not get any readings from the wire, but after seeing Bruce his video, i understood to form a loop, or loops along
this WIRE to be able to pickup the magnetic (or RF?) field.
So in my next experiments, i will use a longer WIRE with severall loops along it to be able to "find" the strongest fields along this WIRE.
Itsu
I would like to give my simplistic opinion of what is happening with Bruces's setup.
The pulsing of current from the 36v battery makes a very high VSWR in the circuit. The reflection caused by open
circuit needs to go somewhere and the path of least resistance is through "the WIRE" to the 12v battery that is
acting as a capacitor. And yes there is current flowing there, but not from normal circuit conditions.
It is the mechanical equivalent of water hammer in a plumming system and "the WIRE" is the accumulator where the reflected pressure is mostly absorbed.
Does this make sense to anyone?
Quote from: itzon on 2018.01.18, 00:43:41
I would like to give my simplistic opinion of what is happening with Bruces's setup.
The pulsing of current from the 36v battery makes a very high VSWR in the circuit. The reflection caused by open
circuit needs to go somewhere and the path of least resistance is through "the WIRE" to the 12v battery that is
acting as a capacitor. And yes there is current flowing there, but not from normal circuit conditions.
It is the mechanical equivalent of water hammer in a plumming system and "the WIRE" is the accumulator where the reflected pressure is mostly absorbed.
Does this make sense to anyone?
Hi Itzon
Since the claims? are nebulous and measurements are seriously lacking by Bruce, a good approach, as I suggested earlier would be to first replace the battery with a cardboard box of the same physical dimensions that is covered with aluminium foil to simulate the approximate capacity and note if there is a large difference in power This would be a control test to eliminate one of the magic elements and possibly blow a hole in the operating hypothesis alluded to by Bruce.
Measurements with an external RF sniffer can be tricky and may not reflect actual power delivered to a load.
Small physical changes can also produce large shifts in operation and measurements.
Where sharp pulses are part of the operation, I usually resort to thermal RMS measurement methods to investigate with greater certainty.
One suggestion would be to replace the LED with a small incandescent lamp where brightness is more easily referenced to power with the eye test. (pre-calibrated eye, of course!). LED's are notoriously difficult when used to gauge power levels.
Ion, I can't disagree with anything you just posted.
I will soon have what I need to replicate this.
Although I'm not sure this is part of the answer to the TPU, I do find it interesting. Maybe changing the wiring from the mosfet to the +36v(except "the WIRE") to properly grounded coax cable will increase the effect?
Since Bruce is using high side drive with a P channel mosfet, with source connected to the positive rail, it is then necessary to reference the SG to the positive rail and set the SG to 95% on time to obtain an effectively 5% on-time of the P channel mosfet.
This circuit could be built in the conventional manner with an N channel mosfet ground or negative of the battery power supply to the source and ground of the SG. Then a standard positive going 5% duty cycle signal from the SG would properly reflect the duty cycle on-time of the mosfet.
Since I don't have a manual for the SG, I don't know if the output is symmetrical around zero or if the output can be offset pos or neg.
This just creates a layer of confusion. Perhaps Bruce has reasons for this which he has not mentioned.
Itzon,
makes sense to me, its also my idea that the Wire has lots of reflections coming form the return line ringing signal.
The squarish like ringing signal on the WIRE compared to the sine wave like ringing signal on the 36V (24V in my case) lead, points to that i think.
When disconnecting the WIRE from the battery decreases the energy from my pickup loop, but does not stop, when touching that WIRE end with my finger it
rerurns to the same level as with the battery.
Will do some more testing with that like mentioned by ION.
ION,
The used FG is a dual channel version of the one i have, and it is able to offset the output pos or neg. by the blue pots (3 and 4), see picture.
I had to find out the hard way to put it all negative as it blew up initially some MOSFETs when using it with the output symmetrical around zero.
Not sure what the 95% and 96% Duty Cycle and 0° and 1° phase shifts of the both signal requirements add to all this, but i will find out soon when
my ordered UDB 1308S FG arrives from China.
Itsu
What worries me about the circuit is the lack of any safeguards that would prevent full battery power from backing up into the SG should the mosfet fail in a manner that shorts the drain and gate.
The SG probably has about a 10 ohm output impedance so a very low milliampere fuse might protect the SG.
Has Bruce specified a value for the main fuses? Would hate to see your new SG get smoked.
No value specified for the fuses other then "quick blow".
Thats the reason i do not use my Rigol FG for this, but have ordered this same El Cheapo FG Bruce uses.
I upgraded again to now 36V and it seems harder to "open" the MOSFETs by manipulating the FG amplitude adjust pot, its set at max (5v) for a meager 20mA current in the main circuit.
Anyway, here the new post i did on overunity.com:
Made again some minor changes while still waiting for the dual ch FG, like using 36V on the MOSFETs and shortening the supply wires as much as possible.
Using 2 current probes to monitor the 36V input current and the WIRE current (between WIRE and floating 12V battery).
First thing i noticed is that the pickup loop does NOT pick up as much energy as earlier, with the amp meter in the supply line showing 7.5mA, no energy is picked up at all!
I had to increase the current through the MOSFETs (by adjusting the gate signal amplitudes) to about 20mA for any reaction on the pickup loop.
Another thing to notice is that the ringing frequency on the 36V input current is now increased from 8.3Mhz to 12.5Mhz.
I think this has to do with the shortend leads between circuit and batteries.
All together i think that the shortend leads and therefor the higher ringing frequency influences the amount of energy (reflected) in(to) the WIRE negatively
Screenshot shows the 2 current probe signals:
purple is current in the 36V supply lead (value needs to be taken x 10, so 404mA pp)
green is current in the WIRE (at the end near the 12V floating battery)
Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PuNvVTiHaA
Hmmmm, changing the 36V "return" lead with a longer wire increases the pickup loop signal again, increasing the length of the 36V supply lead seems to have no influence on it!
Regards Itsu
Itsu, thanks for taking the time to make and post the video.
I'm not suprised that increasing the length of the wire on the positive side showed no increase on "the WIRE" due to
"the WIRE" being connected to the neg side of the 36v battery, it should be open circuit to the positve side during
off time of the mosfet and show no increase in the ringing reflection.
The change of wire length from what you had to really short, which I didn't pay that much attention to, I don't think equates to the decrease in propagation time delay of 4Mhz. That would be a huge change of length for that difference in frequency. I think this is why bench measurements and testing are extremely important.
Your VU meter may be meeting its frequency limits and not showing what is really going on.
Edit: I forgot to add, it may be interesting to add another "the WIRE" to the positive side and connect it to an additional open circuit 12v battery to see if the reflections on that side can be added to the magnetic field created on the neg side.
Interesting circuit. It is essentially a push-push pulse generator
such as is used in Radio Frequency Power Amplifiers. In this case
the two MOSFET switches are driven synchronously with a small
difference in the very narrow gate drive pulse widths. If, that is,
the two outputs of your Signal Generator are synchronized and
"in phase."
The output of the circuit will certainly excite the "distributed
resonant circuit" represented by the wiring into a damped
oscillation as is shown on the oscilloscope.
Radio Frequency waves tend to want to "propagate" along
whatever path is available to them. RF energy will very
definitely traverse the wire connected to the separate
battery which will act as a "load" of sorts to be detected
by the pickup loop.
Adjusting the amplitude of the Gate Drive Signal is precisely
how Radio Frequency Power Amplifiers of the past had been
adjusted; with vacuum tubes the Grid Drive was adjusted.
Because the circuit lacks a well defined "tank" to develop
powerful oscillations it will not be efficient. But it will
radiate RF energy for a certainty.
Excess energy of any variety? Nope...
With MOSFETs care must be taken to not forward bias the
internal protective diodes in the Gate to Source connection.
Those internal diodes are very fragile.
Itsu,
The Blue trace on your scope shows the predominant
frequency of the ringing while the Green trace shows
that it is sensing several frequencies, some indicating
in the hundreds of Mhz. It would seem that the pulses
produced by the MOSFETs are very rich in harmonics.
Similar to what would be seen with a spark gap.
Quote from: itzon on 2018.01.19, 00:34:47
Itsu, thanks for taking the time to make and post the video.
I'm not suprised that increasing the length of the wire on the positive side showed no increase on "the WIRE" due to
"the WIRE" being connected to the neg side of the 36v battery, it should be open circuit to the positve side during
off time of the mosfet and show no increase in the ringing reflection.
The change of wire length from what you had to really short, which I didn't pay that much attention to, I don't think equates to the decrease in propagation time delay of 4Mhz. That would be a huge change of length for that difference in frequency. I think this is why bench measurements and testing are extremely important.
Your VU meter may be meeting its frequency limits and not showing what is really going on.
Edit: I forgot to add, it may be interesting to add another "the WIRE" to the positive side and connect it to an additional open circuit 12v battery to see if the reflections on that side can be added to the magnetic field created on the neg side.
Itzon,
thanks for the comments, i used an 11m wire as the 36V return lead and it show the decrease in ringing frequency from 12.5Mhz to 4.46Mhz, but also the increase in
activity on my pickup loop VU meter untill it pegs the right corner, see this post on overunity.com:
http://overunity.com/2300/bruces-tpu-theory-and-experiments-ver-1-2/msg515609/#msg515609
Then i used the same 11m wire as supply lead and it also shows the same decrease in ringing frequency, but NOT the increase in the pickup loop, so confirming your idea.
I sweeped my pickup coil to see how its frequency response is by using a single turn from my FG and sweeping from 1Khz to 30Mhz (yellow probe across the 8 Ohm resistor)
The result can be seen in the screenshot below, where each division is about 3Mhz (1Khz on the left, 30Mhz on the right).
We see a fairly flat range till 15Mhz (note the influence of the BAT48 schottky diode till there), followed by a sharp resonance peak at 21Mhz.
As we will be using the circuit in the lower MHz range, i guess it will do fine for this setup.
Will be thinking to put the WIRE on the positive lead, to see if the effect will be there too then.
Itsu
Quote from: muDped on 2018.01.19, 06:22:24
Interesting circuit. It is essentially a push-push pulse generator
such as is used in Radio Frequency Power Amplifiers. In this case
the two MOSFET switches are driven synchronously with a small
difference in the very narrow gate drive pulse widths. If, that is,
the two outputs of your Signal Generator are synchronized and
"in phase."
The output of the circuit will certainly excite the "distributed
resonant circuit" represented by the wiring into a damped
oscillation as is shown on the oscilloscope.
Radio Frequency waves tend to want to "propagate" along
whatever path is available to them. RF energy will very
definitely traverse the wire connected to the separate
battery which will act as a "load" of sorts to be detected
by the pickup loop.
Adjusting the amplitude of the Gate Drive Signal is precisely
how Radio Frequency Power Amplifiers of the past had been
adjusted; with vacuum tubes the Grid Drive was adjusted.
Because the circuit lacks a well defined "tank" to develop
powerful oscillations it will not be efficient. But it will
radiate RF energy for a certainty.
Excess energy of any variety? Nope...
With MOSFETs care must be taken to not forward bias the
internal protective diodes in the Gate to Source connection.
Those internal diodes are very fragile.
Itsu,
The Blue trace on your scope shows the predominant
frequency of the ringing while the Green trace shows
that it is sensing several frequencies, some indicating
in the hundreds of Mhz. It would seem that the pulses
produced by the MOSFETs are very rich in harmonics.
Similar to what would be seen with a spark gap.
MuDped,
thanks for your insights, i did blow up a few MOSFETs already so indeed need to be carefull not to drive them the wrong (positive here) way.
I scanned the WIRE (green trace) with my Spectrum Analyzer, and it reveals the thru spectrum this device generates, see 1st picture with device off,
2th picture is with the device ON.
I couple my Spectrum Analyzer with a single loop to the WIRE loop, so loosely.
We see activity popping up till 150Mhz.
Itsu
I'm still unclear as to just what this device is supposed to do, or what new and unique principle it is supposed to demonstrate.
(Other than how not to drive a p-channel mosfet...)
???
Itsu, the slight difference in frequency between the two channels will also give a phase shift indication on the oscilloscope. So you may be seeing the result of this effect, plus the actual 1 degree phase shift set in the FG itself.
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2018.01.22, 02:30:44
I'm still unclear as to just what this device is supposed to do, or what new and unique principle it is supposed to demonstrate.
(Other than how not to drive a p-channel mosfet...)
???
Itsu, the slight difference in frequency between the two channels will also give a phase shift indication on the oscilloscope. So you may be seeing the result of this effect, plus the actual 1 degree phase shift set in the FG itself.
From what I understand the driver circuit is suppose to cause the 'wire'/'coil' to produce a magnetic field by 1 ended injection from the driver circuit. One ended with the other end connected to the lone battery terminal.
Mags
TK, Mags,
yes TK, thats my local town FM radio station at 105.4Mhz thats creeping in here on my scope signals and Spectrum Analyzer etc.
I do not fully understand what Bruce is trying to do here, even though i am in PM contact with him, but he and i are on different levels of understanding
about this stuff, thats for sure.
It looks to me that the RF generated by the both switching MOSFETs is finding its way out through the wires (antenna), but Bruce mentions that we can/should find
electrons coming OFF of the WIRE somehow.
This effect is being mentioned: DeBroglie Hypothesis which was new to me.
I am trying my best to wrap my head around all of this, but its uncharted territory for me.
Itsu
Quote from: Magluvin on 2018.01.22, 05:27:39
From what I understand the driver circuit is suppose to cause the 'wire'/'coil' to produce a magnetic field by 1 ended injection from the driver circuit. One ended with the other end connected to the lone battery terminal.
Mags
If you draw out the complete circuit that includes the lone battery's capacitance through the air back to the source of power, then it is not a one wire circuit, but has a completed path through said capacitance.
In this regard the circuit is a series resonant L-C
You could then replace the lone battery with a conductive object of the same conductive surface area and most likely the circuit will behave the same.
You could also try a completely dead lone battery and connect a wire between the two terminals and note the same effect.
The lone battery is a diversion, like what magicians use.
Quote from: ION on 2018.01.22, 14:21:44
If you draw out the complete circuit that includes the lone battery's capacitance through the air back to the source of power, then it is not a one wire circuit, but has a completed path through said capacitance.
And even if remote from the source of power the battery still has self capacitance (to remote earth or ground). You can get some idea of that capacitance value by comparing the size of the battery to a conductive sphere. The self capacitance of a sphere in pF is roughly equal to its radius in cm.
Self capacitance is a difficult thing for an electronic engineer to comprehend, how can you have a one terminal capacitor? Well just think of the other terminal being connected to a zero potential sink.
Smudge
Quote from: ION on 2018.01.22, 14:21:44
If you draw out the complete circuit that includes the lone battery's capacitance through the air back to the source of power, then it is not a one wire circuit, but has a completed path through said capacitance.
In this regard the circuit is a series resonant L-C
You could then replace the lone battery with a conductive object of the same conductive surface area and most likely the circuit will behave the same.
You could also try a completely dead lone battery and connect a wire between the two terminals and note the same effect.
The lone battery is a diversion, like what magicians use.
I too have been in communication with Bruce and suggested much the same as you.
Quote from: Itsu
It looks to me that the RF generated by the both switching MOSFETs is finding
its way out through the wires (antenna), but Bruce mentions that we can/should
find electrons coming OFF of the WIRE somehow.
This sounds like an adaptation of the Tesla Coil.
The coils in the wire attached to the battery are intended to function
similar to the Tesla Coil? Would "electrons coming off the wire" be
evident by a spark perhaps? Or corona discharge if the "wire" is
un-terminated?
That is a possibility.
Thanks guys,
indeed a one wire circuit always has some capacitince back to ground/source, especially noticable at higher frequencies and i have
measured currents in the 12Mhz range.
MuDped, there are no sparks coming of from the WIRE, nor a corona is seen when un-terminated, the potential is just way to low (12V)
I still have no idea how to check for "electrons coming OFF of the WIRE".
Itsu
QuoteI still have no idea how to check for "electrons coming OFF of the WIRE".
Don't feel bad.... neither does Bruce. :'(
Since Bruce "disappeared" my comment on his thread on OU, I'll repeat it here:
"Congratulations! You've invented the Transmission Line!"
Don't you just love censorship? By its very nature, it hides what people know to be the truth.
Bruce completely dodged with nonsensical answers a list of questions I presented to him on OU.com (as Vortex1 my handle there)
http://overunity.com/2300/bruces-tpu-theory-and-experiments-ver-1-2/msg515721/#msg515721
done!
Did you expect something different? He's one of the "great pretenders" who acts like he has the Secret to Overunity but who in reality doesn't even know what he doesn't know.
That is, his knowledge and ability in electronics are rudimentary at best, and at worst are so outright wrong that he actually corrupts innocent minds with his BS.
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2018.01.25, 02:42:18
Did you expect something different? He's one of the "great pretenders" who acts like he has the Secret to Overunity but who in reality doesn't even know what he doesn't know.
That is, his knowledge and ability in electronics are rudimentary at best, and at worst are so outright wrong that he actually corrupts innocent minds with his BS.
No. I didn't expect anything different. My post was mainly to show those innocent minds that there is a method in science which Bruce does not adhere to, content as he is with his role of snake oil salesman.
Bruce is narrowing his focus [the gain mechanism ??]
http://overunity.com/2300/bruces-tpu-theory-and-experiments-ver-1-2/msg516550/#new
EDIT
below photo comment
yes hard to miss, but he is not that kinda guy...
And I don't think its Freudian either...
Just one of those things.
D'ya think?
What's the power dissipated in a 2200 ohm resistor with 180 mV across it?
(Gotta love that last photo from ariovaldo... O0 )
and here is a more recent reveal from Bruce
http://overunity.com/2300/bruces-tpu-theory-and-experiments-ver-1-2/msg516550/#new
Bruce
Quote
Please see the instructions below as I show you one more way to magnetically (Is it?) take power from these electrons....
Thank you,
See? There's a commonality in all these electrical attempts at OU. A flow of energy is established between an oscillatory transmitter and a more-or-less well-tuned receiver, and the hope is that somehow "electrons" or other energetic stuff will be dragged along with the established flow to increase the output of the receiver system so that it exceeds the input flow powering the transmitter. Various means are being tried, but in the long run they pretty much all boil down to .... radio. Which has a name for the wire that's only connected on one end and which picks up power: the antenna. Tesla and Marconi, between them, pretty much patented all of this high technology around a century ago. And receiving systems are getting pretty good these days. But so far nobody has been successful in getting more out than they put in. Although sometimes the input source(s) may be quite well hidden from "prying eyes".
Oh, amazing posts from Bruce TPU.
And his "student" ariovaldo has succeeded in lighting up an LED and making a voltmeter show a fraction of the input voltage, from a capacitively coupled circuit.
It's so easy you will laugh!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x2YfA9LU5s
Quote from: Tinsel Koala
...But so far nobody has been successful in getting more out than they put in...
Except for, perhaps,
Daniel Pomerleau.
Sure. That's why the 2010 Nobel Prize in Physics went to Daniel Pomerleau.
No... wait..... :D
Well... I've tried to draw out the schematic of the present state of Ariovaldo's construction of BruceTPU's "Christmas Present"... more difficult to assemble than an Ikea flat-pack futon bed.
Will someone please check my schematic for accuracy. Of course this involves sifting through about 10 full pages of the thread on OU dot com, and interpreting BruceTPU's dribbles and drabs and scrawled sketches.
Note that this circuit appears to be merely a kludged semi-wireless power transmitter/receiver setup, and all the mighty power in the receiver sections is clearly coming from the 36 volt battery powering the Tx side. Commenters Turbo, Hoppy, and our own TinMan have shown that they understand full well what is happening in this circuit -- while some others clearly do not.
Best Ebay deal on the mosfets I can find is from Israel, 10 pieces for $8.88, plus 4.99 shipping to USA, 2 weeks.
Digi-Key lists them at $8.53 for 10, plus shipping. Usually Digi-Key orders arrive at my mailbox in 4 days.
But seriously, why bother? There is nothing of real significance to see here. Years ago I made the point that a simple wireless power transmission-reception system could explain SM's TPU, and I've demonstrated such systems many times.
ETA: Digi-Key lists the BAT48 Schottky diode at 10 pieces for $2.94.
Can anyone give a reasonable explanation for why an ordinary cheap-as-dirt, high Rdss TO-93 packaged N-ch mosfet, such as 2n7000, could not be used in this circuit, with appropriate adjustment of the FG signals?
Tk
the ZVP2110A is a pfet , the listed equivalent is TP0620N3-G-ND $1.40
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2018.02.18, 20:36:15
Can anyone give a reasonable explanation for why an ordinary cheap-as-dirt, high Rdss TO-93 packaged N-ch mosfet, such as 2n7000, could not be used in this circuit, with appropriate adjustment of the FG signals?
I wouldnt see why not. The latest circuit you redrew would need reversing of the input and maybe putting the inductor on the other side of the battery still connected to the - side. Then the outputs to the collectors maybe should be reversed to apply proper signal as the original. Its simple enough to try both and compare. If you get the same results either way then maybe bruce would need to give reason for the pfet necessity. ???
Mags
BruceTPU is unlikely to give reasons or explanations for anything. He's cast his pearls before us swine and is going to relax on his guilded throne, and "off with the head" of anyone who dares to question his "gift" to us wee mortals.
All I want to know at the moment is whether or not my schematic re-draw -- giving all the information that he's dribbled out over weeks of postings, in one image -- is correct. Hopefully my efforts will someday be appreciated by others who may want to explore his "gift".